Transcripts For KNTV Dateline NBC 20140915

Forgot were, i just want to know what happened to my daughter. Join is as he hunts for a killer and searches for the truth. I want to put my fist through the tv. And just wait until you learn what she found. Still brings the hair up on the back of my neck. The confession welcome to date line everyone, im lester holt. A Police Interrogation video tape, it can play a big part in any case, but rarely the way it does in tonights story. For the mom youre about to meet, already grieving for her dead daughter, the tape revealed something almost as shocking as the murder itself. Youre about to see what that was and when you do, i would like you to ask yourself, what would you have done about it . Here is keith morrison. They keep him in here, deep inside the multiple walls and the armed doors and the rows and rows and rows of raiser wire, the confessed stabber, the convicted killer of that sweet, young woman all those years ago. He is lucky to be alive probably given the nature of the crime and the appeal from that girls mother for the death sentence, which makes what that mother tells us about him very puzzling indeed. Let him go. If the only thing his mother has is her only child, let him go. Her name is carroll dodge and the amazing story she will tell us tonight began on the worst day of her life. It was a thursday, june 13th, 1996, midmorning. She placed a call to a beauty salon to talk to her daughter, angie. I dialed angies number at work and a lady answered. I said, this is carroll dodge, angies mom. She said, angie has been found dead. Just over the phone. I remember saying, god, no, please no. This cant be real. Happened it turned out the night before in the tiny second floor walkup where the independent 18yearold had just started to build her life. Stabbed to death, her throat cut and carroll was haunted by a conversation she had with angie that very week. Thats what she said to me, mom, ive done something really stupid. Did you say to her what did you do . No, i didnt want to pry. What could it have been that something stupid . Would it lead to murderer . Idaho falls, idaho, big blue heaven above, dazzling white Mormon Temple below to aing anchor below. Fine way to raise a family, three dodge boys and one girl, angie, whose birth occasion, the biggest celebration of all. That was a pinnacle for my parents to have the baby girl. Little angie was one of those kids who learned about independence early on who grew up busy and strong and stubborn. Nobody got in her face because she would take care of you. She was a wee, petite thing. Angie was 511 and she was strong. But, of course, big can be a problem for a girl. As a teenager, she was too tall, too awkward. She struggled. And to make it worse, her parents marriage fell apart. Thats when angie went and just made friends whoever accepted her. Among angies new friends was jessica martinez. We both had very poor image because we had weight problems and wanted to be accepted not what we looked like but for people worp. Jessica turned out fine. But carroll worried about those new friends, didnt know they, like angie, had big plans. She wanted to go to college and just be the best person that she could be. Now suddenfully this little apartment angies life was over and carroll grief stricken and dazed endured a murder investigation. We clearly thought there was some sort of relationship there because it was a crime of passion. Gerald and ken brown were back then detectives in the idaho falls, p. D. Angies boyfriend was out of town. They turned to this physical evidence, this bloody imprint. When her killer did something that was quite beyond sick, pulled down her pants, pulled up her shirt, left a deposit of semen on her body, his mark and his dna. Theres a lot of anger, lot of humiliation in this. And frustration for the cops because that dna didnt match any of their possible suspects. Month after month they chased leads into disappointing dead ends and all the while carroll dodge haunted the investigation, practically stalked the detectives, desperate for information, begging them, find the killer. I drove to the Police Department everyday that they were open. And then one day, seven months later, dead of winter, january 97, an arrest next door in nevada broke the case wide open. In custody was a young man named benjamin hobbs. Here he is at angies funeral, carrying flowers, but get this, hobbs was now charged with sexually assaulting a woman at knife point. Sound familiar . So while detective ken brown rushed off to question hobbs, detective jared ferman began talking to hobbs friends. Why do you think youre down here . Honestly, i have no idea. One of whom was a 20yearold named Christopher Tapp. He was no fellen but he was an admitted druggie and what do you know, chris tapp had a bit of a history with exSchool Resource offer now detective ferman. He was in trouble a time or two . He was. Just trying to help him out. I trust you and hopefully you trust me, okay . Yes, sir. He trusted ferman, but didnt know anything he said about angies murder. If i did anything about this, i would say, but i do not know. Thats the honest truth. Having made his statement, Christopher Tapp went home, in the clear apparently. Couple of days later, the detectives asked him to come downtown again. I told him i says, what are you doing . I says, this is a murder case. This is tapps mother, vera, she understand what he apparently did not that her son was quite possibly talking himself into very big trouble. Mom, i dont have anything to hide. I want to tell them that i dont know anything. But it didnt quite work out that way. Before long, chris tapp written a statement for police saying that ben hobbs said he killed her and i just laughed it off like he was just telling me a joke. Ah, but that was just the beginning. Over the next several weeks they had tapp in here nine times, questioning him 20 hours, even gave him an immunity deal and that is when mr. Tapps story began to evolve. Yes, he admitted he was there when ben hobbs killed angie, even held her down he admitted when ben stabbed her and then finally, he said, he even stabbed her once himself. The motive, revenge. Supposedly angie had been meddling in bens marriage and mr. Hobbs did not like that one bit. So detectives confronted hobbs, who denied any part in fact murder. And asked them a question about angie. Was she raped the night she was killed . I dont know. Thats why im asking you because if she was, my dna will prove my innocence right there. And lo and behold, he was right. That dna result came back and the semen found on angies body didnt belong to ben hobbs or chris tapp, neither one of them. What went through your heads when the dna results came back and it showed that the attacker was not ben hobbs. Its frustration. But the detectives decided that didnt mean chris was lying or that the theory of the crime was wrong. It could only mean they decided that they needed to expand the theory. Ben hobbs and chris tapp were guilt, they were sure of it, so that mystery dna must have come from a third man, a third attacker. So they put tapp back in the Interrogation Room and asked him, was a third man involved in the crime . Sure enough, chris tapp said yes, there was a third man. No matter how many times detectives asked, he couldnt or wouldnt tell them who it was. So prosecutors made a decision, if tapp wasnt going to tell him the whole truth, he wouldnt get his deal. Chris tapp was charged with murder, but only chris. Not enough evidence to go after hobbs or anyone else. The announcement caught carroll dodge by surprise. Detectives kept her in the dark until now. But one look at Christopher Tapp in court and she knew she wanted him dead. I mean, i was finally looking somebody in the eye. I thought was a devil who had taken my daughters life. Chris tapp was found guilty and sent off to state prison for 40 years, which is when carroll dodges odyssey really began. Her own investigation, filled with danger, surprise and some very troubling discoveries. When we come back, one discovery so troubling that angies mother reached out for help. The anger just surged through me. Her search for the truth would hold some chilling surprises. Still brings the hair up on the back of my neck. When the confession continues. Huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Everybody knows that. 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Dinners on the table leaving nothing standing between you and dinner. Now whos for gravy . Lysol power free. A powerful clean thats family friendly. Thats healthing. Heres a good one seattle. What did geico say to the mariner . We could save you a boatload foghorn sounds loudly whats seattles favorite noise . The puget sound foghorn sounds loudly all right, never mind doesnt matter. This is a classic. What does an alien seamstress sew with . A space needle foghorn sounds loudly continuously oh come off it captain geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. In the years after angie dodges murder, the man who confessed to taking part in her killing, Christopher Tapp, was safely tucked away at state prison. His alleged accomplice, ben hobbs in prison for a different felony, was never charged with angies murder and Idaho Falls Police told angies mother, carol, they still couldnt find that third man. The one who left his dna on angies body. Thats when carol became her word obsessed. If the police couldnt track down her daughters killer, well, then she would. The anger just surged through me. And thats when i went to the streets and i literally put 60,000 miles on my truck searching for her killer. You purt yourself in harms way. Oh, absolutely. I remember going to a place and the lady said you need to leave before somebody hurts you. Thats how the days and weeks passed. I had a gun put to my head in one night. In a frenzy of new leads that never panned out, but carol often ended up parked outside the apartment where angie was murdered. I would just stair at that house and stair at the windows and try and figure out how scared she must have been. Something else carol couldnt stop doing, Reading Police reports. Practically memorizing them. I dont sleep and i get up and i just go, what part of this dont i understand . It didnt make sense. None of it made sense. And in one of those reports, carol found a phrase which, the more she read it, sounded out of place in a dna world. It was about pubic hairs, which in addition to the semen had been found on angies body. It was written in this lab report that it is similar or same as the victim. And i said to myself, its either angies or its not angies. Right. It cant be an either or. Not in Todays Society world. Of course. Then carol remember readen an article about an internationally known dna expert who just so happened to live and work right in idaho. How does it feel to be recognized dna expert . Its fun. I did fruit flies. Nobody invited me to talk on television. This is the expert, dr. Greg hamfikien who spreads his infectious enthusiasm at boise state university. His work is not all done in the classroom. In fact, his own path changed back in 2004 when he was asked to test some dna that eventually led to an innocent man being freed from prison in georgia. The doctor wrote a book and just like that the doctor found a new calling. He is now in high demand. In tween, he was part of the team credited with freeing amanda knox. And in his spare time, he is founder and director of idahos Innocence Project. Its an unfortunate thing that our name is innocence. Honestly, ive worked on 13 exonerations now, four of the ones in georgia, they found the actual perp ray tor, to those four guys im the guilty project. So now the coincidence you just couldnt make up. The very week carol left a phone message for the doctor asking for help, idahos Innocence Project had just taken on a new case the case of the man convicted of killing carols daughter. Christopher tapp. The doctor called carol back. Her words to me, ill never forget, i just want to know what happened to my daughter. And, you know, it still brings the hair up on the back of my neck. The curiosity first surprise you. The knowledge surprised me. Shes turned all of that love and devotion for her daughter into a very careful record of this case. So she read that report to him, the one that said the pubic hairs found on angie were similar to or the same as the victim. He goes, well theyre either hers or theyre not. Just as you thought. He said, well where are the hairs . I said i assume that theyre still in evidence. Though she called the idaho falls Police Department which found the hairs in an envelope in the Evidence Room where they had been stored for all those years. Well, after carols calls those pubic hairs were acceptability off to the crime lab where state of the art dna could show that chris tapp was there at the crime scene or that ben hobbs was there at the crime scene or that the entirety of the physical evidence was left by one unknown third man. That was a fundamental question, huge. And the answer from the dna left no doubt. Only one person who did this in terms of dna. One killer. The science said there was no evidence there were three attackers in angies apartment that night as the police had thee orized, but just one. And that remarkable news could mean only one thing, at least according to the idaho Innocence Project, chris tapps story was a false confession. He was not there. He was an innocent man, the theory of multiple killers, ridiculous, said the doctor. To imagine that there is this group of criminals who know about dna and are so careful, what did they do . They planted somebody elses semen and pubic hair and cleaned up all their own dna . As you might well imagine, that conclusion that chris tapp had to be innocent, the killer had never been caught, came down like a hammer to the head on angies mother. I was extremely angry. When they have dna, not once but twice, that belongs to the same person and its not chris tapp, something is wrong. So what did you do . I met with the chief and i asked for copies of all of the video tapes. Those video tapes, the ones in which chris tapp had confessed to taking part in the murder, on most accounts carol knew more about the case than anyone. All she did is watched more than all of 20 hours of chris tapp interrogation until now, and she did, she watched every minute. And when she was done, carol dodge was a changed woman. Looking at a brand new case. Coming up theres times that i wanted to put my fist through the tv. The tale of the tapes, what exactly had she found . Were going to go from more than a dozen years after her daughters murder, the ground beneath carol dodges feet was quaking. New dna tests revealed that none of the physical evidence implicated confessed murderer Christopher Tapp but pointed instead to some mystery man still at large. And the woman who relentlessly prodded the Idaho Falls Police to find their daughters killer, began to doubt everything those detectives had been telling her. For 13 years they had me convinced that chris tapp was there. All they kept saying was that he confessed, carol, he confessed. But, was it a real confession . Carol asked for and got a complete set of tapps video tape confessions. And what she saw amazed her. By this time, of course, she knew so much more than she had a decade before, knew, for example, that then detective jared furhman who ran the interviews had been a School Resource officer, well known to a young chris tapp. I trust you and hopefully you trust me, okay . Furhman kept telling chris, just trust me, chris. You have to trust me. We go way back, chris. And i think that he was taught to respect adults and he was a follower. She watched as chris insisted he knew nothing and then she saw detectives, as theyre trained to do, subjectly make tapp. Hypothetically, chris, how do you think it happened . I remember chris saying, you mean like a tv show . Next she saw police administering polygraph after polygraph, almost always with the same result. They would tell him hes deceptive. When tapp was promised immunity, his story about ben hobbs changed. He got a knife. And he just started to cut her. But perhaps what troubled carol most was seeing how confused tapp was, even ten days after his first interviews, he still seemed not to know what house angie lived in. Did she live on the corner . Police, carol noticed, kept correcting him. For a guy who taken part in a murder, he seemed not to know much about the layout of angies apartment. Why dont you try to draw it out. When they asked him to draw it, he couldnt do it. Detectives even perhaps inadvertently showed him where the murder occurred. Bedroom, right back here. Oh, yes. And there was more. Police had always told carol that chris tapp knew things only the killer would know, the location and position of angies body, the clothes she was wearing. Well, now carol could see for herself on tape the reason chris would know those things. Carol was stunned to see police had shown tapp photos of the crime scene. Is that how you remember it . Is that how you dont remember it . Just going to jog your memory for you and well go from there. Theres times i wanted to put my fist through the tv. And finally, remember that the Police Theory of the crime after dna didnt match tapp or hobbs was that three people committed the murder together. The detectives spent hours, literally trying to drag the name of that third man out of tapp. And when carol saw the tape, well, you watch it. The name nothing comes to my head. Jeff. By the time you had gone through all of those tapes, what did you think about chris tapp, the man you believed all those years how did they do this to me . How have they managed to keep someone in prison for all these years and its a possibility hes not there . After that eureka moment, carol dodge made a decision, she would do more than search to find her daughters killer, she would actively work to free Christopher Tapp, the only man convicted of the murder. I think that chriss case truly got taken seriously after i made my contact with boise state. She was the first victims Family Member who came forward to work with the Innocence Project on a case. I mean, shes the leading edge of a group of people who have come forward and said, you know what, we just want to know what happened. But no matter who was now on his side, chris tapp was face to face with two very uncomfortable truths. One, years of appeals had done nothing to overturn his conviction and prison sentence, and, two, the detective who put him behind bars had gone on to a much more powerful position in idaho falls. And he was still absolutely certain that chris tapp is as guilty as sin. When we come back, the former detective reveals what makes him so sure of tapps guilt. He took us into the bedroom and relived that night. You could see it on his face. He was reliving it. When the confession continues. Car insurance. Yeah, Everybody Knows that. 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Our new formula not only cleans and freshens but also softens your carpet so its always inviting. Resolve. A carpet that welcomes you. On my journey across america, ive learned that when you ask someone in texas if they want big savings on car insurance, its a bit like asking if they want a big hat. scuse me. Or a big steak. Or big hair. I think we have our answer. Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. By the time we visited the city of idaho falls in march of 2012, the angie dodge murder case was to some just a piece of city history. But to idahos Innocence Project and its founder, dr. Hampikian, it was a miscarriage of justice and a cause. If theres dna, for god sakes believe the science. People are not that accurate. The dna is very precise. And now, 15 years after the murder of her daughter, angies own mother, carol dodge, had done what was once unthinkable. She had joined forces with the Innocence Project. The city of idaho falls has got it wrong. You want somebody to take you seriously . Yes. In the year since the murder, finding angies killer had become carols reason of living, through three hairks the death of an estranged husband, off and on battles with the idaho police and now she had to fight that power in a whole new way because remember jared furhman the detective who befriended chris tapp in a previous position of School Resources officer the fellow got that confession has gone on to become the mayor of town. True. Did that have anything to do with it as far as people can tell . People have to protect their story without looking any deeper and saying, is this really accurate . So had the Idaho Falls Police taken a false confession, put the wrong person in prison and failed to find the real killer . No, that just wasnt true said the former detective and later mayor jared furhman. How does he know . It was furhman who took tapp to visit the crime scene, during some of those many itries all those years ago. Let me tell you, they werent in the room with me when he took us up the stairs, took us into the bedroom and relived that night. You could see it on his face, he was reliving it. Of course the critics wouldnt be able to see that because it was one of the only times during the investigation when the police did not video tape chris tapp. But i have no doubts in my mind that chris tapp is a part of that homicide itself. Right. You cant you can because what is it 25 of all dna resolved cases where somebody is released from prison it turns out there was a false confession. People do confess to things they didnt do. We know that, but when people confess to crimes that they dont do, they dont know the minute details of that case but chris knew and knows the minute details of the case. He of course claims that he knows them because he was fed them. We would politely disagree with that. Is it possible, at least, that there was some suggestion involved in these things before he actually said them . That he was coerced. No coerced, he heard in the questions he was being asked some hint of what the answer might be . Hypotheticals, as it were. Theres a possibility. For us to say theres no possibility anything could have happened, you know, we cant say things like that. We can say that we have reviewed those tapes over and over. We had a jury who reviewed those tapes but two guys who interviewed this person over and over again and found that in the first interview, the second interview, the third interview, the fourth interview, the fifth interview he lied like the sidewalk then you finally get to the seventh interview and thats the gospel truth. No, absolutely not. During each of the interviews he was bringing out information that he absolutely knew was not fit to or the color of clothes he was wearing the position of the clothes, how many times she was stabbed, the diagram on where she was at in the room. Interesting. Many times as the interviews progressed, chris tapp claimed to know nothing about the clothes angie dodge was wearing. Do you remember what she had on . No. Do you remember she was clothed or unclothed . No, i dont know. But some details in the interview could be interpreted to back up the claims by police. Once, for example, before tapp was shown the crime scene photos, he seems to in a guessing kind of way know what angie was wearing. And although hes wrong about the color of her clothes, after being asked many times if her clothes were half on or half off or pulled up or pushed down, he does correctly say this about her pants. They were half on. Also said the detective, chris talked about ben hobbs, hitting angie behind the ear and we have the evidence to back it. We have bruising where he says that ben hit her. So, detectives insisted they were right. Ben hobbs was the ring leader, chris tapp was involved in the attack and an unknown third man left dna. Three attackers. And about the fact that carol dodge now disagrees with their theory and is now supporting chris tapp, the only man in prison for the murder whats it like to know that carol is now actively campaigning for his release, believes hes an innocent man . I think thats part of the process in some respects. Her heart has been broken. And shes convinced you got the wrong guy. When i heard that, i was genuinely surprised. Its been a roller coaster ride for 16 years for her. Tomorrow or the next day, chris could be guilty in her mind again. So, perhaps now would be a good time to talk to the man in the middle of all this. This serial confessor, Christopher Tapp. Coming up i didnt kill nobody. So why would he confess . Tackling the biggest mystery of all when dateline continues. doorbell rings. this. Alright hilarious. birds say oooh and laugh. windex. Starts to work before you wipe to clean and shine the first time, every time. Lets do it again. followed by laughter windex. Best on glass. Sc johnson. A family company. Lythat cleans better than bleach hywithout the harshness a dinners on the table leaving nothing standing between you and dinner. Lysol power free. A powerful clean thats family friendly. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Everybody knows that parker. Well. Did you know auctioneers make bad Grocery Store clerks . Thatll be 23. 50. Now. 75, 23. 75, hold em. Hey now do i hear 23. 75 . 24 hey 24 dollar, 24 and a quarter, quarter, now half, 24 and a half and. 75 25 now a quarter, hey 26 and a quarter, do you wanna pay now, you wanna do it, 25 and a quarter sold to the man in the khaki jacket geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. There comes a time in every tale to meet the man at the center of the story. And here he is, Christopher Tapp. No longer the aimless pot head youve seen on those video tapes from 1997, now a man of 38, who has done more than a decade of hard time. As people look at you, what do you most want them to know about you . Ive been so wronged all these years. How could individuals do something to another human being like theyve done to me . Youre an innocent man . Yes, sir, i am. Of course everybody in prison is innocent, right . If you look at the whole entire case the dna, none of it points to me. On that point, there is little dispute, of course. But how did chris tapp get here . Thats a familiar story to many families the sweet little boy shown in all these pictures of a typical childhood, carefully kept by his mom, vera. Started smoking marijuana at 13, then at 16 turned to meth. Chris dropped out of high school, got and stayed high every minute he could, he says. Hanging out down by the river in idaho falls with all those kids his mother warned him about. And that he says is how his name came up after the murder of angie dodge, when police were scouring the city for suspects who might match that dna left behind after the murder. So, too he was asked to submit dna. Did you think anything of that . No. I had no rhyme, no reason to be scared. Then, not a word. For months, until, youll recall, january of 1997, when tapp was brought in for questioning, after his friend ben hobbs was arrested for a nevada sexual attack, which police said was similar to the murder of angie dodge. I didnt know what i was being brought in for. You didnt connect it with the angie thing at all . No. I honestly thought i was going in for drugs. As youve seen over the course of several weeks, chris tapp soon went from saying he knew nothing about angies murder, to being the only man charged in the case, just as his mother warned him. How was your mother during all this . Frantic. I was honest with her. I said i had nothing to do with this, mom. I tried to explain to her. I didnt really confess. It took days to get to a story where i actually made a confession. Well, of course one of the difficulties was your story kept changing, right . Very much it did. I mean, you went from saying i dont know anything about this to then saying, well, maybe ben had something to do with it, to then, well, maybe theres a third guy involved. Wait a minute, i was there. And, oh, yeah, i cut her. Where did that come from . Trying to give them what they wanted to hear, just to appease them. Wait a minute, but why would you say you cut her . During that time, mr. Furhman, he said hypothetical, even if you did cut her, well get you another deal, well be able to help you, you just need to help us. Indeed, here it is. On tape, with then detective later mayor, jared furhman in charge. Hypothetically if chris tapp was holding on to angie as she is being cut and some other stuff was going on or if chris tapp took part in the knife and any way, shape or form in cutting her, okay but i didnt. Would you listen . Yes, sir. Okay. Hypothetically yes, sir. Okay. If you took part in any of that, thats okay because youre still here, youre still showing some good faith that you want to cooperate and the prosecutor will reconsider another possible exactly. You believed that story . Hook, line and sinker. Try to put yourself there right now and tell me whats going on inside your stomach and your brain. Scared. Trying to figure out what they want, just for them to leave me alone. Why . I didnt kill nobody. I was never there the night the murder happened. They just kept focussing on, well, if you was there, if you did do it f you held a knife, its okay. Well help you. So like an idiot, i believed them. And then they charge you with murderer . Now, of course, chris tapp is fighting to clear his name, not only the support of his own mother and the Innocence Project but of carol dodge, the victims mother. Carol dodge came around to your side. What was that like . Its an amazing feeling. And i appreciate her finally understanding that im innocent. And, as we spoke, for the first time in years chris tapp had reason to feel one spark of possibility, someone in a position to change his future was going to listen. Coming up a new chance at freedom. Could that controversial confession get thrown out of court . With this confession goes the state has almost no evidence. A highstakes hearing with carol dodge front and center. More than 15 years after angie dodge was murdered, on a quiet street in idaho falls, something was about to change in the confessed killer chris tapp. For the first time in his trial a hearing on evidence was about to be held before a judge. And as chris tapp entered the courtroom, he and his supporters finally had reason for hope, not that the judge could review the evidence and just declare tapp innocent, no. This would have to be based strictly on points of law. Idahos court of appeals had over the years thrown out all but one of tapps video taped interviews, that being the one where he said he took part in the crime. But in this hearing, it could be thrown out, too. If the court decided tapp believed he was in custody when he said those incriminating things. If he thought he was unable to leave this little room because that would have violated his basic constitutional rights. Tapps attorneys Dennis Benjamin and ben thomas. Whats the best result from this . If this confession goes, the state has almost no evidence. I think they would have to dismiss the case. The stakes could not have been higher for mr. Tapp. His mother, vera, sat right behind him, carol dodge was there, too. Two of her sons also. Theyve got a lot at stake. If chris tapp walks free, then what . Then its who is the killer . The prosecution would rely on the word of the mayor of idaho falls, jared furhman. He was then a detective and ran the Police Interviews and said, chris tapp was never technically in custody. Was chris tapp free to leave . Yes. Thats funny, chris tapps lawyers argued when it was their turn. How could a 20yearold who had been arrested twice and watched as the door was actually barred during some of his interviews how could that young man, who had been questioned on and off for nearly a month who spent more than a week of that time actually locked up in jail, who watched as immunity deals were offered and then later torn up, how could that kid, the lawyer asked, be expected to believe that he could leave when ever he wanted. Did you think that you would be able to go home if you did not talk to the police . No. Tapp acknowledged he had, indeed, lied over the years, many times. Including in sworn affidavits used in past appeals. You admitted, in fact, that you lied on any number of occasions. And if you lied before, how can we believe you now . Of course theyre going to say im a liar now. Hes just trying to save himself, but its the truth. Im innocent. Ive never committed this crime. When testimony was over, it was up to the judge. Would he order a new trial for chris tapp . Or would he send him back to prison, maybe for good . And then, four months later, a ruling. Chris tapp was never threatened, restrained or handcuffed said the judge and thus was not in custody. Appeal denied. The truth will set me free some day. Youre pretty convinced of that . As the years go on, yeah. Tapps lawyers have vowed to continue that fight, long as they have to to file new appeals and for the First Time Since the murder, the two mothers at the center of the case can agree you come home everyday and you think, i had a son. Sooner or later somethings got to break. Let him go. If the only thing his mother has is her only child, let him enjoy his mother, let his mother enjoy him. Theres just two of them. Thats all they have. But the detectives who made the case against Christopher Tapp say they are still certain, well the search continues for that third man, the dna donor, tapp and ben hobbs are killers as well. They are sure of it. So as you sit here today, youre convinced that chris tapp is one of the people that you need to have in prison . Absolutely. Yes. As for ben hobbs, hes still in prison in nevada, and still denies any involvement in angies murder. He declined datelines request for an interview. For dr. Greg hampikian of idaho Innocence Project, the answer still lies not in the machinery of law, but in science. That dna left at the scene, it points, he says, to the explanation, not to a third man or even a second one, but just one. One what are the chances that a story could remain a secret that many years if three people were involved . Secrets can be kept but science reveals those secrets. Somebody went in and committed a typical, violent, rape murder and left typical evidence. Theres no other person there by dna. Where is he . Where, indeed . And carol dodge is still tortured, still pondering that last message from her angie that she had done something stupid. Sounds to me like you believe she had crossed or double crossed somebody who was very dangerous she crossed the line and didnt have any clue of what she had gotten herself into. And neither did she, carol admits. When she sat out on a quest to find a killer, not finished, not yet. Im never going to stop looking. One day im going to look that man in the eye. One day he will be found. Hell be found. Thats all for now. Im lester holt, thanks for joining us. This sunday on meet the press, president obama makes it clear this country is in for the long haul. We will degrade and ultimately destroy isis. But suggests this isnt a war the u. S. Can win alone. A Broad Coalition to roll back this terrorist threat. James baker, the man who built the alliance that forced hussein out of kuwait will tell me if he thinks president obamas plan will work. Hillary clinton visits iowa today. Many see it as day one of her campaign. I am looking for someone a little bit more liberal. Is she really as much of a sure thing as some people think . The nfl in crisis. Growing calls for Roger Goodell to resign over his handling of the ray rice case. How big a problem is