More corporate state is one of the major threats that we got. We certainly know it was the Citizens United decision in the McCutcheon decision but it didn't start there did it it goes it goes back so I guess the question is Where does democracy in this country or you know give us one of the things that you have to. Recognize in the history of the Constitution and. My necessity the the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution is the way in which. The corporations and entities have been treated under the Constitution and with Citizens United the basic concept there. Is that massive amounts of wealth can be organized in perpetuity under a brand name. A fiction called The Corporation and then that corporation can spend unlimited amounts of that aggregated wealth that individuals have a very difficult time enjoying and drowned out all other voices I mean are we going to agreement that corporations are a threat to democratic and even constitutional government why would see corporations and public. Public employee unions. I think that both are in a position if you look now the campaign financing has either provided by large corporate contributors to the Republican Party and the Republican Party is a shell. A device through which these corporations are able to flow unlimited amounts of money and then on the Democratic side. The large public unions are flowing their money millions and millions of dollars through the Democratic Party to run their campaigns or independent of either political party they're just spending the money themselves so energies small groups of people that control massive amounts of money that are aggregated in entities are now in control of our democracy and so the question becomes is that democracy is to my democracy is supposed to be ruled by individuals by the many it with a consent. Predominating when there is a majority and that majority still has respect minority rights now. We don't have individuals anymore in control of the system we have corporations large public unions and then there caretakers are United States Supreme Court and supreme courts and other courts around the nation Well a lot of times when 3 confronts reality it's a pretty brutal question and so I guess the question is you know when the Greeks talked about democracy and because they made it sound so pretty what's happened that how how did we get to the point where the theory of democracy got put into practice and that the way it is now I mean the didn't just happen with these most recent Supreme Court decisions you know maybe maybe Citizens United sort of stuck in our face but it's it's kind of. History to it what would you trace it back to well I think you're right you know when you talk about the Greeks their concept of public service in government is very much in line with what our concept is today of jury service the idea the Greeks had was most of the public offices only required a basic kind of decency that any citizen could exercise and so citizens rotated through the public offices and in Athens in a in a relative in a regular and in a periodic on a periodic basis in the United States. There was the turn of struggle beginning right after the adoption and the implementation of the constitution between the federalists who did not really believe in democracy. And the Republicans under Thomas Jefferson who were Democrats and the when Thomas Jefferson was they were kind of confused back then because De Mint called themselves the Democratic Republicans yes I mean how more confusing can you know and so what happened was after Thomas Jefferson was elected by the Congress because of the close come between Thomas Jefferson Aaron Burr. Thomas Jefferson as he came in the Federalists as as the historians like to say retreated into the judiciary meaning that John Adams made a bunch of last minute appointments. And the Congress shrunk the size of the Supreme Court so that Thomas Jefferson wouldn't be able to replace one of the vacancies and a war ensued between the Congress and between the Jeffersonian and for the most part for a period of time Thomas Jefferson won the battle but he eventually lost the war because John Marshall issued a series of opinions that turned America away from. Democracy and more towards the kind of system we have today and that 1st decision was a case involving Dartmouth College in which that was when Always when the person being the Marburg versus medicines of well it I would say that for our purposes today that the 1st really on point decision that in which a an entity was given recognition. Enjoying constitutional rights was the famous Dartmouth case in which Dartmouth College had dismissed their president and the state of New Hampshire decided that they wanted to take over the college and reinstate the president and so state legislation was passed and. The. Supreme Court Justice Marshall in his Dartmouth College Decision found that somebody wanted to read the case can you. Guess what the year was that's who the other party ones yes well it was the state of New Hampshire and if for those of you who are lawyers it's 17 pages so I have a dream year I got it in 1900 if you want to look at Dartmouth College versus versus New Hampshire and and the what Supreme Court Justice Marshall said was that the original grant of contract in 769 from King George created a charter that the state of New Hampshire was any able to regulate and that that really started now that that case over the years has had less and less. Viability there were some there were some famous There was a famous case many years later in New Orleans well actually me say this before say the new one. Case there was a there was a a well known case that arose out of the state of of. Minnesota when it sure that the the year and then in the name in this is in 1908 called Minneapolis vs Beckwith Ok And and in that case but but by the way before you go into that if you're just joining us I'm Douglas Holbrook and this is Micah Geary and we're look at some cases that change the course of our history and that case in the in the minute so many athletes rode case the road sued and said that a law that had been passed. Under which a farmer had sued to. To recover. Funds. Was unconstitutional because corporations were persons and so as we go into that we're going to. Remind you that I'm Douglas Holbrook this is my Curie. And we'll be back after this. Survey in San Diego from high atop monument peak in the Laguna mountains this is K.M.'s day discount so 89 point one f.m. And online at www dot org I know a moment San Diego's history the Native American community people thought to have settled in the San Diego area over 12000 years ago described as the birthplace of what is now modern day California San Diego got to start in the mid 17 hundreds when the 1st Europeans settled here in what is now known as Old Town today Old Town is a favorite destination for residents and visitors alike with its great mix computing interest in shops but it wasn't always this way in 1835 Richard Henry Dana will be his classic work 2 years before the mast quote Santigold is a small snug plates with a motley settlement of about 40 dark brown looking huts warehouses less than half the size of Monterey or Santa Barbara he said his 1st dinner here consisted of fake meats really stupid peppers and onions boiled eggs in California to the kind of backroom San Diego as it appeared to Massachusetts resident Richard Henry Dana in. 35 K.M.'s Jay is proud of our San Diego heritage. And this is my King hearing back Mike before we broke we were you were about to introduce the case out of many you know. What I wanted to refresh what was the year that case what was the name of that carries them and maybe share with us what the case was all about that was the Beckwith case it involved the railroad dispute it but it involved. The ultimate issue was that the Supreme Court recognized the corporations were persons in the context of the dispute between a hog farmers suing to recover under a state law that required the railroads to put up protections at their crossings and the farmer some of the one the Supreme Court ruled that the state could regulate the roads but in doing so. Found that the railroads were in fact persons entitle to protection under the 14th Amendment and this is this was a reoccurring issue this was a landmark case right well it was it was it was a key case because although there was not much analysis it just basically reached the conclusion that the corporations were persons that that concept had been insinuated into an earlier case also involving the railroads and also involving a u.s. Senator who was involved in the adoption of the 14th Amendment which is really the key constitutional amendment we're talking about who was there his name his name was Roscoe Conkling and he was actually a friend he was actually a friend of points in Churchill which is kind of crazy but the the idea here over the years has been starting as we were saying earlier with the conflict between the federalists who did not believe in democracy and the Republicans under Jefferson and this. Reoccurring battle has been fought out in front of the Supreme Court and it is in its modern day version the Us Supreme Court has turned into a kind of super legislative body and the Citizens United case that basically found that the right of corporations to spend money to drowned out the messages of their opponents is a 1st Amendment guaranteed protected right and the people behind the citizens united pealed of the Supreme Court set up the case powerful organization got it set up got the Supreme Court to accept it granting a writ of certiorari the Supreme Court only grants about one or 2 percent of all of the ass all the people who asked the Supreme Court to hear their cases a very small percentage or granted but if you look at what is granted the Supreme Court grants almost without exception any of the cases that these big powerful. Bodies that are setting them up for the purposes of trying to establish beneficial laws for corporations the Supreme Court more times than not except those this is one of those examples and so what you then had is once Citizens United got filed then you had the Supreme Court overwhelmed by amicus briefs friends of the court so to speak but not friends of democracy but friends of the court really friends of the court reasons the great friends of the corporations briefs that came in and argued this is why you should interpret the right of corporations to spend money to drowned out their opponents messages or the right of public. Unions to spend money to drownd out their opponents messages as 1st Amendment rights and this is where we are today but the debate over whether corporations are persons whether they are citizens. And there's a distinction there because for example only so. Distance of different states can invoke the jurisdiction of the federal courts in disputes in the say involve a federal question and there's a practical implications to being called a citizen versus being called a. Person Well is there going to be a time where corporations will actually get to walk into the ballot box and actually vote well to be a time when the corporations are going to say well why can't we run for office well in essence the corporations are going to do in essence that is exactly what's happened now they're the surrogates the alter egos of the corporations are the ones that are holding office the so so so your answer that would be they don't really need the right to vote they don't really need the right to run for office because they already are on their own with the people but and in fact even though the corporation doesn't run for office their surrogates are actually sitting in office being funded by contributions so they don't need to run for office right now they turn democracy and do it to say this kind of a farce we don't while we have as I said before we really have a clip Tucker said today which is ruled by the corrupt rich and we completely lost our connection to the touchstone of democracy which is the idea that every citizen has the same right as every other citizen to vote and to influence the outcome of elections it's something you said that I thought was rather profound off air when you see I make most of my good comments off hearing and you're reminded us that there used to be this concept of the right to vote based on property interests the more property you had the most votes you had and we've reverted back to that we've reverted back to the way America was organized before we even had a constitution before we had our. 14th Amendment in the 13th Amendment before we had the changes that were made under the Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt administration. And now we're back into the idea that massive amounts of concentrated wealth economic royalists as f.d.r. Used to call them are now in complete control of our country they control the Supreme Court they control the Senate they control the presidency they they control the legislative bodies around the country they control the governorships they control the judicial bodies around the country and the citizens now are. Looking at a situation in which wealth is becoming more and more concentrated one of the great books written called capital in the last couple of years of the author escapes me at this moment it's not fair makes the point that what you're trying to think of it in the author for those just joining us I'm but was Holbrooke and I'm glad you remember that I can remember my name this is Micah Gering Oh Ok well that's good I want you chance to do that too and we're we're talking about the things that threaten democracy and it seems like foremost on the list is the notion of corporations not the corporations or in themselves about thing but they certainly Kim be a. Also a minimum of distracting force and potentially a force of community drowned out the voice of the people that book Capital that I talked about by Tom Picotee. That book makes the point that the return on capital has grown faster than the economy has which means that there's less wealth to share but the people that have the wealth are gaining more and more return Douglas I want to be really explicit we no longer have a democratic form of government in my mind we our democracy has been lost and nothing straits that better than when we had the fraudsters that created the economic crisis because of the massive pervasive Borbidge fraud perpetrated by those on Wall Street and overlooked and permitted by your friend what you're referring to the years. For 2008 and then in 2008 when we had the bailout and so I would argue that we really don't have a democracy we actually had fraudsters who were bailed out by their. Handmaidens who run the Congress and run the federal government after they had perpetrated a fraud and you know this is this is what we're dealing with today. In terms of trying to get our Supreme Court to to be more mindful of reestablishing democratic rights. Well I guess my question still is how did this start and where does the trace back to I think you trace it back to the door that Dartmouth College case and maybe that's a starting point but maybe we'll need to get into the show progresses right now I'm Douglas Holbrook and this is my cure. We will be back you know these insightful conversations between former San Diego city attorney Michael Geary and attorney and former political science professor Douglas Holbrook a regular feature of talk of the town on k n s j 89 point one f.m. They cover topics ranging from politics to history to life in San Diego we hope that you enjoy this series and will comment on these programs at w.w.w. Dot k.-n. S.j. Daughter org k n s j is listener funded so please feel free to make donations to show appreciation for this and the other programs we broadcast on the k. Honest a website click on the donate button to make your financial contribution to help us continue our station operations this will enable us to keep producing the programs who enjoy such as the talk of the town show you are listening to today now we return to market Gary and Douglas Holbrook I'm Douglas Fulbright and this is my hearing where your back. Like you were kind of building up to another. Another concept or another sort of threat to our democracy you're talking about you talk about the Supreme Court which I I think we tend to think of as the protector of the constitutional rights and the democratic principles. I'm getting the impression you don't think that's always the case well what's happened is the major concentrated wealth has taken over our government and as exemplified by the extraordinary circumstances of 2008 where the federal government bailed out the crooks that cause the financial. Crisis involving fraudulent mortgages that were systemically created by Wall Street. That were not valid mortgages and that they were traded as not valid mortgages and insurance was sold and money made and phony revenues created that people took huge bonuses off of them when that all was uncovered we are still in a situation today that not a single Not only would was no one prosecuted the largest massive fraud in American history but they fraudsters actually were bailed out they were given $0.10 on the dollar and they were given their bonuses so that just showed you the extent to which our government is no longer controlled by the people but if we take it back to the basic concept this is basically what the theory of our government is. A person living in a housing project in Chicago. Under our theory has as much right to influence and vote and run for office in our society as a person living in a multimillion dollar penthouse in off of Central Park in New York that's the concept and the concept the reason. That many of us believe in that concept is that the rights that the if you respect the rights of individuals to contribute to the process those individuals are going to reflect the broad welfare of the country in the aggregate and not any one particular influence they're not going to reflect the fact that I want Goldman Sachs to be able to operate any way they want to say because I get money from Goldman Sachs or at least put it this way Goldman Sachs the individuals that make up Goldman Sachs can vote for Goldman Sachs but what they can't do is take other people's money and disproportionately spend it on their message so that you have someone in different parts of the country who have no chance influence the outcome of the race have no voice whatsoever so the idea of equality of dividing You know it's the ultimate check and balance you take all of the power of a nation and you divide it into its individual components and then you survey those components in a fair election and you have any one given year an outcome vote in one direction you have a vote in a different direction that's not what we have anymore we used to say there was a pendulum that swung back and forth that you would have conservative years and you would have liberal years and it was swing back and forth now there's no swinging it's always on the conservative side it's always the different conservatives represented by the corporation tax not even conservative that's not even the right idea it's on the selfish side it's on the concentrated wealth side it's on the idea that we should have more and more people making more and fewer and fewer people making more and more money and this is and many more people making less money this is where you started to by the way if for those just joining us I'm Douglas Holbrooke. This is Mica Gary and we're trying to figure out maybe trying to deal into. The bias of our government the that controls the threats to democracy you mentioned used to be a swing back and forth between conservatives and liberals and you talked about you know one part of being off as you were going to contrast with a liberal so I well I was going to say I caught myself no longer a liberal's laws that were you know I was a cop myself because I'd like to put it in terms of reform and corruption you know we kind of vacillated back and forth between reform and corruption now it's just corruption or higher levels of corruption and and what I mean by that is as the Democratic Party I'm a member of the Democratic Party. Doesn't even resemble itself anymore the party gets its money from mostly the concentrated wealth public unions that have that collect and have in a sense public financing of their campaigns because they get the government to collect the money from their membership and then they aggregate that money and then they channel it either are you going to suggest that both parties have sort of a you are playing the role of corruption the vote partly on have a reform party anymore both parties are there really and totally corrupt and I would say totally But I mean didn't each party come into existence I mean didn't the Democratic Republicans under Jefferson come in as a Reform Party Well they did and I think that Woodrow Wilson said it you know we must have reform the Democratic Party before we can reform reform the new at the same time. Abraham Lincoln brought the Republican Party into sort of a divided dominance that was a Reform Party also absolutely the Republican Party not only then the Republican Party was the gave us the progressive movement I mean the program it gave us Hiram Johnson I mean gave us direct democracy the Republican Party has you know over many different times have been a party of reform but they've lost their way just as the Democrat. It's have and it's this concentrated selfishness that's taken hold of the nation it's people you know if you if this book that Picotee wrote called capitalism his whole thesis is if you look at the the growth of of wealth. And you look at the growth of the economy so what does that mean in other words the overall wealth of the nation is growing slower than the overall concentration wealth of the people that have the capital of the nation and so what I'm trying to figure out is where the stems from I know that Tom Hartman who's the author of many many books a couple of his books are devoted to the notion of a one of the an equal protection talks about he traces back to a particular case back in the $186.00 I believe and says that's where the bias towards corporations started I think you're tracing it back to almost $1819.00 The Dartmouth College what the 886 case was a case that came in that Roscoe Conklin the senator who was also involved in the passage of the 14th Amendment argued before the Supreme Court Supreme Court justice Chief Justice wait and justice wait in the very beginning of the case when it was being orally argued said all we don't need to hear any argument on whether corporations are persons we're going to assume that they are that was a little bit of a sleight of hand by big corporate railroads which at that time were the dominant players like our Wall Street players all today and that was insinuated into the case even though the case itself really didn't reach any constitutional issues if someone wanted to look at case of that would be the Santa Clara County versus Southern Pacific Railroad case for me to music's right which was argued before the u.s. Supreme Court and I agree with you that just as we slipped one sentence in there which almost became what the case stood for even though he was saying we're not going to address this issue but that was a very clever does this this goes back to something the more fundamental in the in the in the study of the pathology of civilizations in the study of the diseases that affect and destroy civilizations. You know and we can we can analyze that these. Problems in the sense that these are the same things that that have been a den of 5 these factors have been a den a fight is the selfishness factor as destroying Nations you know and that's something that we're going to have to do we're going to be one of the future showed which is the difference being corruption in the form they're playing you know and I'm going to obviously beaners of corporations to contribute in that and the Supreme Court seems to have both allowed that to occur for now I'm good with the whole book and this is my curing. Mary for joining us thanks for being with us. Thank you for joining us on Talk of the town with former San Diego city attorney Michael Geary and attorney and former political science professor Douglas Holbrook here on k. And s. J. Descanso 89 point one f.m. a strict. Welcome back to Talk of the town on k. And s j coming to you live from the City Heights broadcast center with former said Diego city attorney Michael Carey and John Baker and the president's. Well we're really fortunate to have. Have. With us who is the director of the Islamic Center of San Diego and tell us about your center what what are your objectives and who belongs in how can people participate in your activities the Islamic Center of San Diego is the largest mosque in San Diego County. So we have a place of worship for Muslims we have the 5 daily prayers we have the Friday main weekly prayer also we provide educational services like full time Islamic school from k. To a Saturday school are also we have some social services mainly providing financial help and assistance to a new commers. Especially if you do community as you may know that San Diego is one of the. Most concentrated places for a few G.'s coming from you know the Middle East mainly. Also we are very involved in the interfaith work we work with a lot of interfaith organizations are about Rabbi Loria you know her of course we are together at the i c w g interface Center for Justice she is our executive director and I'm a board member Well you know she's she's also the head of the same do a convention center so she's yeah she's covering a lot of territory so. All right so let's let's do this let's talk about prayer. Help us understand you mentioned that there was the. The 5 daily prayers What are those Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day the 1st one video early in the morning before sunrise then we have the meat day afternoon sunset and night prayer Muslims can pray individually whatever they are at home at work at school outside in the park but they are highly recommended to go to the mosque join the communication and pray behind the ear that human. He's that religious leader of the Muslim community for all 5 per user just some of the sum of all 5 prayers Ok so you just so you cut down to the every day. Of the Islamic center Ok but we don't hate it Ok so so now if I'm reading something this is that the the prayer or the subtle lot Salatin are of it's a lot Ok is one of the 5 pillars of Islam Ok Now what does that mean it means that Islam when it comes to practicing Islam there are 5 Peters that we are supposed to do one of them is the 5 day prayers. The other 4 are the testimony of faith the alms giving fasting the mortal form of on and performing. Which means people image problem it's Ok in progress back home to the city of Mecca which is located in Saudi Arabia actually let me just see if I understand this so that do you have people that come to the mosque 5 times a day yes those who live around problems and I want to just I want to say one thing I recognize right away. If you. If you want to have breaks from work this is a this could be a very very good religion. As you can pick away 5 times and of course what that tells us is there's the sincerity you know I went to Catholic school and we had mass every morning and you really get to learn the men who are every single day and if you're actually praying every day how long are you praying for each prayer last form you know 10 minutes members Ok And what are we praying for do we say the same things do we say a silent prayer is it a public prayer some of some of the prayers are silent like the No one afternoon other prayers we decided to call on out loud. But we do the same thing that the prayer is to say Ok so every day there is the proof and when you see the prisoner same thing help us with that explain that to us meaning. The actions we do and the words we say in the prayer are the same things Ok so you're reminding yourself every day exactly and repeatedly we look at the 5 daily prayers as poses that we take you now live to connect our ourselves to the divine to God and the significance of this is that you all to remember that we are here in this life for a purpose and the purpose is to serve God and to submit ourselves to the will of God See that's very interesting because I have a as a Catholic I get a daily Catholic message which consists of a meditation and reminds me who the saint is of the day that sort of thing but it's sort of the same thing is it reinforces the fact that there's a purpose beyond just your everyday selfishness and that's that's the point of the 5 person exactly and often by the way when I tell people that we pray 5 times a day that local My God how could you day how could you do it I'm struggling with one prayer a week you know what about seed you know most people have 5 meals a day they don't exist it would not moments but but Ok so so what I'm really now is the 5 pillars of Islam in a fundamental act to perform correctly it is believe that communication with Allah will bring life to the prayerful and bring them courage because if they are true yes Ok Actually the prayer means talking to God Ok so is now within the Muslim community there are some Muslims that believe that Allah is guarded you know and there are some that do not believe that and we always tell people that all law is the obvious word of God Ok meaning that in English you call him God in French do you in Spanish Do you also in our because a law Ok So whatever whatever whatever does it really Ok. And and it says that. In a sense you're having a form of communication which is the same I don't print on purpose the same Ok whether you're just curious. You know the scene so that so many. Good one now when you pray. Here's one of the problems about me becoming Muslim I have very weak knees and I'm very concerned that I could not kneel down in the way that I see people I would the flexibility alone is impressive but if you see what I'm saying Mike we have a very comfortable chair for you I'll take it Senator thank you. But do people actually what posed to people get in when they prayed and is there a reason for that yes I mean we are supposed to pray standing tall and Van we bowed down and we prostrate for those the able who cannot stand or cannot ball down and prostrate they can use whatever makes their comfortable chair sitting on the ground whatever you see what I see here is I see a lot of people that are very dedicated to one of the things that part of the prayer process is to ensure the area is clean and free of impurities and that includes your body your clothes and the place of her itself exactly is that true Yeah Ok. And then now the what is the absolution the what is that absolution we call it in our big will though it's a washing of specific parts of the body that we have to do before the prayer Ok we wash our hands out of mouth nose face arms up to the elbows we wipe over our head we wash our ears and our feet the right and the Left Oh Ok so you're preserving really something that has been going on for centuries No you were do you do that there where is that it is that at the mosque or is that somewhere else not we can do it in the bathrooms of our homes and then walk or drive your car is Ok You know when you do that 5 times a day Oh not just to 5 times I mean you have your absolution unless you use the bathroom once use the bathroom you have to do it again Ok well you know George w. Bush what do you think of that never ever to actually you know require a certain level of Janet he had a hard time we washed my feet a lot Ok Now if you're not. If you're not. Ok it's good to perform the the would you what is the would you you know the is the obligation that we just Ok it's just the Arabic name off of lotion Ok. Now if since your last prayer you have Ok move skip over that Ok make sure that that make sure all of your necessary parts recovered Ok help us with that the nakedness of a man is considered to be between the navel in the knees for a woman her entire body help us with that what is the you know Everyone's fascinated by the fact that women are completely covered in RINGBACK some cases except for just the eyes themselves help us what is the purpose of the talking the purpose of covering is modesty Saul for man if I want to tool to pray I have to RINGBACK cover at least from the navel to the needs Ok for women the whole body except the hands and the face of the commonest face is Ok to show that yes yes yes covering the face basically is more cultural than Islamic that's why you can see women in specific Muslim societies in the world that cover the face in other Muslim societies women don't cover like in Saudi Arabia it seems like they cover everything but the Yup because it's a common practice over there is that is that. Ok All right well Marie listen were you call that the perfect time we're talking about. The you know the process of covering various parts of the body in connection with the prayer in the in the in the celebration of of the Muslim prayer ritual Thanks for calling in what what what can you add to our conversation. I was actually going to go. For direction. I met and I'm interested you know. This modesty and fact. It's the. Think it's interesting but I wonder if the mom might have a chance to talk about the contribution to science isn't astronomy but a Muslim that's a great it's a great question let's let's let's pause our discussion about modesty for a moment by the way that's a good modesty is a good word there are many Americans including myself could you know could she could have been a fit from what about what about the Muslim contribution to science and to knowledge and mathematics help us understand exactly. If you may know that. A few centuries ago Muslims have established one of the you know most well known civilizations in the world for centuries. Just to let you know that the 1st ever university in the world was established by a woman. In Morocco Oh Marie is going to be really happy here that it's called. I know I know it's called Virtual University of a part of that exists is it simply this is a planted question ladies and gentlemen Marie has planted this question and answer I get I'm amazed by it of course go ahead yes and if you go to the website 1001 Inventions you will find all the scientific achievements of Muslim scientists throughout the he story. There is a book written by somebody in Irvine and his name is David forgot his last name the title of the book is The Lost his story in his book he talked about all these achievements he's a Muslim by the way and I remember one when he presented his book he took his a few years ago he took his Blackberry and he said every time I use my Blackberry I remember the person who was behind all these digital technology he's named. How it is me he is a Muslim mathematician and he's the one who invented the 00 I love this let me just say a 1001 Inventions discover a golden age you've got to look that side up now let me ask you where did you say the 1st library was the 1st university or 1st university. That is still existing in Morocco it was invent it was established by a Muslim woman centuries ago well the Muslim community invented the whole mathematics system that we need something right Ok so I think about that ladies and gentlemen our entire system of mathematics including algebra calculus us came from the Muslim world. Now let's talk about this let's say there is there was a famous lighthouse in Alexandria hope to talk to us about you know but I don't know. Ladies and gentlemen there are this is a you know. This is the 1st time he's probably ever been asked a question I feel very proud Mary are you still there. Ok we'll always go back and learn about it Ok there was a this is I told you we're going to now this is amazing this is an amazing 'd 'd 'd . Every go this is an amazing this $1001.00. The top 10 maps of the Muslim civilization. This is an amazing early maps to go back centuries the science of geography was invented by Muslim geographers and oh my gosh the the most beautiful mosque in the world is where. I would say Touch Mahal Well well listen you don't sound very confident there are we I think we got you get no standing colors light up the Nassir. Mosque in Shiraz Iran or Iran yes yes of course they would be Iran and the cradle of civilization for so Ok And it's it is you are you with me though it's so beautiful the colors of the of the windows have you been there you know but I wish I would be able to visit Iran have you ever heard of the African king I dress. That he is but I think I heard about him Ok so we may think of him. Too as the preeminent site of pre-colonial West African scholarship we must remember that there were other places spanning across the western civilization in central Sudan that were renowned in their tradition of teaching do you know that many of the slaves that were brought to North America from West Africa they were very well educated people from Tom book too how about this paper making paper originally was brought from China into Muslim civilization from an art Muslim civilization developed it into a major industry paper mills flourished across the Muslim world. You know ladies and gentlemen when you think about it the Muslim world the Arabic world it well that's why they call it the cradle of civilization I mean we need to really appreciate that when people stand up and Donald Trump I want to challenge a little bit here yeah sure you're from you know you talked about New York values New York values value diversity and they value accomplishments and they value history they value Arctic artistic expression and accomplishment. How can how can you. Even talk about excluding Muslims as an entire community when so much of our if we excluded Muslims in the Arabic world from our community I mean are you willing to give back all of the things that they've contributed to us including our mathematics system paper all the other things that we that we take for granted. Like I said in a debate you and I I have a lot of Muslims you know my French but we got to figure out what the hell is going on in this country I've got to protect our country. Ok well that's not exactly Ok Now listen to this East Mez each meets west in Venice a fascinating article about Venice a few 100 years ago when it flourished as the hub of Europe's trade with the lands to the east and south it shows how Venice was a meeting point for commerce and culture especially with the Muslim world again another you know if you've been to bend a Venice and even in the president's been to Venice. So Ok Ok Hold on a pause Marie you're back then we had you did we address your We're going through all of the wonderful famous things and it compliments that in the police if you don't do anything else out of this discussion look up 1001 inventions. Which is the discover a golden age it is a remarkable website beautifully done website that lays out. The tremendous accomplishments of the Muslim world the Arabic world Marie what can we do with you . Well I appreciate this conversation and I just wish that. We had. Maybe a more broader perspective today's education looking at all of the cultures and the contributions that they have all made so I'm really appreciative that on this program you're going through that. Well that's great Marie I just want to say one thing though I have discovered something that will bring a lot of negative reaction and it's is this is pretty serious especially from all the high school kids algebra came from the Muslims so if you are going to blame anybody don't blame your high school teachers Ok This could cause this good now you're talking about a reason to be divisive amazing snapshots. From. Khiva formerly known as quiet as help me with that quite a resume collage me of ice the Ok Yes Ok the birthplace of the famous mathematician . How come. See me of how it is me you know you do it so beautifully a prosperous center so I mean are you kidding me I mean I mean this seriously this is like for us to say we don't want to have our connection with the Muslim world it's like Ok well let's just chop off our you know the the very foundation of history that we rely upon that we are that we come out of you know the Western world is a relatively new place immediately I mean you know and now how about the art of healing medical care and Muslim civilization human life was highly valued and we always hear that Muslims don't care about life so this is a always hear about these young people let me know I do have a serious question for me as to. When I see these young people being led and putting on the you know the vest and then they detonate themselves. Who does that mean that seems so. It's so cruel and so one who would get a child to do that I mean what is the what's going on there help us understand it. I would say that when you see these young Muslims being recruited by terrorist organizations and moving from you off mainly I mean can you imagine from France only more than a 1000 young Muslims being recruited to ISIS so. You know before blaming those young Muslims ignorant people let's let's go back and find out what's the reason yeah that's what I meant Yeah exactly yeah exactly I strongly believe that the failure off the French political system that did not give them any opportunity to integrate positivity no economy you know opportunity you know educational opportunity over there this is what the Democrats have price Ok so here's the thing we play end of the hands of the extremists when we deny opportunities when we deny the opportunity of someone to make something of themselves and really you know. If our president were to to reach out to the people of the Middle East now when you say the people of the Middle East that's so diverse right I mean it was just you've got every conceivable angle and I mean you have Christians and Jewish in the Middle East to Christians and Jews and then even within the Muslim world you know you've got Saudi Arabia and they're not really happy with Iran and you know you've got so so that in terms of of us having a more generous foreign policy towards the Middle East what would you really do how do we how do we get past this this horrible negativity that we have and into a more. Positive You know good neighbor policy with the with the Middle East how can we do that I believe that we should work hard with our politicians to lobby them and to let them understand you know or how to fix our u.s. Foreign policy it seems that when millions of Americans are not happy with the u.s. Foreign policy you know they it doesn't make them less Americans but if a Muslim American Muslim is not happy with the u.s. Foreign policy it makes him less American than others so I believe that a lot of work should be done with our politicians lobbying our you know the authorities in Washington d.c. To fix what we had the mess that we had a contribute. You know in that in the in the Middle East I mean the best example is the occupation of Iraq the invasion of Iraq that was built by you know based on a lie so we destroyed the entire country over there we caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people over there and then when that that existed and bad people that took advantage of that that and they started establishing these terrorist organizations not blaming the people that we have destroyed why this is has no matter what you're saying yes I should let we should all have some more troops in there no that's not it is Ok Listen. We're running late and we're announcing today that we're running. For the to become the national executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations we think we've got to move him to the very top but do you know knew you had a wide clear that is tell us about him he is the executive director of the National Office of Care Council on American Islamic Relations Ok so now we're going to have to we're going to have to have Andrei Carson who's a congressman from Indiana he's going to have to leave if. Donald Trump's plan goes through. And then the former mayor of Macon Georgia one of the course more liberal cities in America Macon Georgia see Jack Ellis is that Islam Islam like. Keith Ellison 1st Muslim congressman from Minnesota look at all these people it seems like they're patriotic Americans but they're Muslims is it possible to be a patriotic American to be a Muslim why not why not yes what I say I mean we seem to have an awful lot of them . And Malcolm x. One of the great leaders. Tragically assassinated but someone who anyone that was a college student read now comics biography autobiography but we seem to have a course in Muhammad Ali You know probably the greatest you know he really was the greatest in and the. In the business world you know no Donald Trump What did your nationality. I mean natural born citizen here in this country I'm Irish. I don't think you're Irish are you sure you're Irish That's what Kant cruised to help me here is already said. That's what he said yes. That you were German. I don't believe I was German I don't believe that's true at all. According to the Islamic Medical Association of North America. Is the method that there are more than $20000.00 physicians Muslims in our hospitals and clinics which makes 10 percent off the American physicians are Muslim so I'm just wondering what Donald Trump is going to do with them you know Donald Trump what are you going to do with those one of their legally they're fine but Ok so you don't have a problem with them I'm not I just all I was saying the right is what we have to do is stop the refugees from coming in here because you could be a Trojan horse we don't know we don't know how to vet these people we have to protect the country we don't know what the hell is going on but what about the people we have here that we know that we can't trust like for example the n.r.a. Members who want to have the assault weapons in a gun merchant selling every type of. Mass killing device that that's out there well I think that most of the gun owners in this country are fine they're abide by the laws and they're not the problem mental illness is the problem well isn't that isn't that true with the Muslims that most of the Muslims in this country are fine and I believe so I have many friends that I must I mean are you who are some of your friends that are Muslim well I can't tell you right now I can't think of any. But it sounds good I need to go to dial. Them Ted Cruz is coming on. Well were you born Donald. I was born and this country nobody anywhere. Near You remember New York. Ok so now you were a real estate developer and you were born in 1906 in Queens New York. That's right Queens Let's. Talk Martin Martin thank you for calling in Martin please contribute Well not not to the content of what you're saying but just to report that after being off here for 10 days. Rob Andrew got my op ed Oh it 600 feet and you know. I mean oh my gosh thank you very much I'm I want people to understand we have doubled our. Audience we had we had 4 people in this 5 people in the in a in the room I made tonight now we've got now we got up Dave Ruff date so this is really exciting I don't thank you very much by Vice President and I don't want to be a dictator in. I don't know that's so wonderful Martin We really appreciate your efforts you know. Great big. Thank you thank you thank you for. Support Community Radio we need you we probably need some help we're going to we're going to have to raise the bottom dollar to get I'm sure. Anybody would listening we need a donation thank you so much more new will encourage will continue to drive home that message. Thank you so much more and we really appreciate it Ok. I miss you so Donald Trump went to the New York Military Academy to age 13. He he entered Fordham University and 2 years later transferred to the Weren't school to finance the University of Pennsylvania he graduated in 1988. He's been a New York developer. And he's got a little bit of a military back when you know I'm so sorry we're out of time Mrs Kane is to Talk of the town serving send to your goals. If your small business or organization wants to connect with listeners sharing your values of peace sustainability and social progress consider promoting your business through underwriting one of our many fine shows on k. And its j mention of your business will inspire. Appreciation your program sponsorship will be reciprocated by the community if you're interested in and how to connect to community radio listeners and please call our development director Marie Johnson at 619-283-1102 k s j g. Serving San Diego on the air at 89 point one f.m. Streaming. Smartphone using the tune and radio at. The sound of social justice. 89 point one f.m. Discuss a. 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