For now is the. Song playing in the. T.V. Almost done the same. Goes with the. Gold talking guys. Talking about. Comes from the ME. And you come. Kind of funny to the song. Could be coming as a. Goal talking time. Song and. Song. Song and. Sometimes I need. To be a mile. Talking. Talking about. Bowl talking about a. Song in. The game zombie and coming. From the time the. Radiant Come come I'm talking about. The game. One moment claimed. Makes me feel like. I have a. Dog in the top dog come get in Move. 2. go he told people I think he'll. Be OK. I think I am told on Monday on cable over may well go slowly boy a coming people call Obama the mayor called Let me go well the polls. Hell lol Maybe I'm. A lot. In the sense you can both show. Both. My mum. Comes when the He. Was. OK That was Amy honey yeah leave without doing a duet with Willie K. They have such beautiful voices OK My time is just about up here you've been listening to the coconut wireless This is on T. Joe this is K M U D Garberville a community radio station so I'm going to play one more tune and then I'm outta here and next thing up is global Ger global journalism. Take care a little Ha. We. Saw Sir. OK that's it for us this week and I will see you next week I'm planning to do a vintage Hawaiian song Aloha. Know a little about the tiny South American nation of Guyana in the U.S. It made headlines back in the late 1970 S. After an American cult leader named Jim Jones took his followers there and more than 900 people died in a murder suicide after drinking poisoned koolaid but recently got a has been in the news for more positive reasons that's because Exxon Mobil has made one of the most promising offshore oil discoveries there in decades now Guyana is covered mostly in tropical forest and it borders Venezuela Brazil and Soren right now it's one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere that's about to change there put things in perspective Guyana has fewer than 800000 people and the total annual output of its economy last year was about 3 and a half $1000000000.00 The potential market value of the oil find as much as 120000000000 to more than $180000000000.00. The sudden discovery of all this cash under its seabed holds a lot of risk for Guyana and some oil rich countries like Angola and Nigeria most of the population has got no real benefit from their country's oil wealth and right next door to Guyana is Venezuela there the economy has collapsed in spite of the fact that it has the world's largest proven oil reserves so on this edition of GLOBAL journalist a look at his big find and whether it can avoid the so-called resource curse in a moment we'll hear from some people have been following this issue closely from a couple of different angles 1st we're joined by Samuel souk Nandan in Georgetown Guyana He's a senior journalist at the Guyana times and television guy on his evening news Samuel welcome. Thank you very much well tell us if you would about sort of what the mood is in Guyana What are people feeling about this big oil discovery. oh well since you all discover it it have been some level of excitement but the people are on not too excited as well because guy is a mirror about rich were sourced country your exporters of box are in who'll dying month and for stream product spite of all those saw we have beaten all the years been having a comedy is come in here and invest but we haven't really seen much benefits from hiv the all those country of course has created it he beat and discussion i'm only guy knees popular is we'd to move forward to will 1st oil in 2020 but it all the men's and how well and government manages their resources it gains from the this human sect of out well i will i want to talk about how the government is managing this in just a moment but one issue i think we should touch on 1st is than or stand that there is territorial dispute between guyana and its neighbor venezuela that actually dates back centuries telus just briefly about that shore well this is you who yes at like you said it since 966 own vet is going to days leak cream to on the even tie a cyclical region in call this of all 2 thirds of got is territory and that water often school was include in part of this stop or or block we're the most of the me joy of this country's of me that by an ex in the mobile oh political analyst an auto common teenagers have mean speed in a mole his these been than what from all indications it seems that of the mock to keim bach our when x. In will it be the discovery of oil in now known in probably to those $1516.00 and ever since that is you has been on who are in howell There is not much fear I would see. From of the people here in Guyana because. The scene is that we have support from the US Exxon Mobil is a US company we also have the support of the United Kingdom where he comes in we're a controversy that much to his needs and ready to the International Court of Justice and we are already in plans to go here so there is some level of easing. In terms of. It doesn't seem that it will read any Meijer major conflict because right now the Venezuelan government is not has their back against the wall least of all the sanctions and all the issues. Sure Venezuela has a number of other issues ongoing at the moment but you had touched on a moment ago about some of the transparency issues about how the government has negotiated this production contract with Exxon Mobil talk to us just a little bit about that oh sure well in all fairness the government has been it's a fairly new government job a coalition government run of something. That. Has been. The necessary plans it has looked at in the turned out to be carried. On the examples in Africa in Europe and Canada but it. There have been some issues in relation to how they go vote making it more accountable and transparent. Especially with the discovery of. Prison $80000000.00 US dollars assigned in what was received from Nixon although since 2006 in the public pressure well after the release of an article of want what they liked in. Relation to the government have no option but to see the private account to have the U.S. $1000000.00 and then receive in about a year old. Instead should have placed it into a consolidated fund. A private citizen who happens to be and all the Transparency International body here the guy needs are more he has filed a challenge. Against the government to have their money into the consolidated he was in has also filed a lawsuit in the who are images supposed to come between this week the next week next week most likely. Since the discovery that it was the US $18000000.00 signing bonus that government has pressured even more to release the contract how can lie under oath how in the US in the private encounters and so the government was pressured into releasing this deal that it made with Exxon Mobil after it been reported that there had been this sort of secret payment stashed in Guyana Central Bank by the government but so what do we know about that contract when it was released how did people react to it or whether they are still on going to be. Will be lost when they release all the contracts. I think the C.D.'s drop or into block but in terms of the Exxon Mobil drug. They. I have been the servants of all the production sharing agreement while. The minister has with commercial production begins in the Alexander and at least one US $1000000.00 daily or just over us $300000000.00 annually It may seem is big money for a small 3rd world country but given the ready resources that this farm and many persons of color seen the governor has really struck a deal of the 1st agreement signed in 1907 on the previous government. Accepted even one percent royalty the new government signed a new contract in 201617 percent royalty. So. Even the I.M.F. Has recommended a review of the production sharing agreement between the government annex and Mobil so ready imma get in the highest year of profit oil profit 1000000000 T. . Of. Projects increase So in other words it sounds like there are still some questions within guy as to whether or not the government negotiated is good new green with Exxon Mobil as they could obviously Exxon Mobil needs to needs to make back the money they've spent doing all their exploration work in Ghana that's for well Samuel thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you you're listening to global journalist I'm Jason McClure We're talking today about a major offshore oil discovery in the South American nation of Guyana whether an oil fine that's dozens of times larger than the country's gross domestic product will be a blessing or a curse now to broaden our discussion we're going to bring in a couple other people who have been following this story joining us from Bogota Colombia is Raul guy goes he's an associate director at Control Risks a global risk consulting firm and the author of the book crude nation how all riches ruined Venezuela also joining us in London today is Nick Butler he's a former executive at the oil company B.P. He's now a visiting professor at King's College London welcome to both of you rel guy goes let me start with you you've compared what's happening in Guyana to a homeless person winning the lottery how how is that analogous. Well 1st of all thank you so much for the invitation basically what you're seeing in the Yana is is a similar situation to what you've seen in a number of other oil rich countries is in many cases countries that don't have strong institutions the don't have a history of managing their finances properly a history of properly investing their money properly managing their affairs if you will and also countries that have enormous poverty so it is a very big challenge for these countries to all of us. In scoring enormous amounts of money and you know how to properly manage that money and you know prevent specifically interest from taking control of that cash I think that is where that which has been a country that for 100 years has had you know an oil industry if you will has continuously stroke particularly because when this was discovered oil it was you know a similar analogy could have been many you know whether it was a country that wasn't ready for it if you will and you know my point is that just as human beings are not ready to all of a sudden be thrust in a situation where they have an enormous amount of money. You know nations are in a in a similar boat if you will if you're a human being that has a number of defects that all of us have and you know if you happen to have a tendency for a certain type of addiction to say alcoholic or drugs or what have you if all of a sudden you are. In a situation where you inherit enormous amount of money if you're not ready for it it could destroy you could end up misspending it you could end up being kidnapped and a number of other people if you for money it can be a brilliant nightmare if if you're not in. Went for it so I think the same applies to countries the countries all countries that have discovered enormous amounts of natural resource are not normal countries if you will in the way that you know human beings will the sun in the area $300000000.00 or so not in a normal situation it's a big burden and a big responsibility is only the ones that are tearful and methodical about. Well let me sorry if I could just turn this back to you Samuel we just briefly last go says audio there for a moment similar saying that countries have to be sort of careful and methodical. About handling this type of situation when they have such a large amount of money coming in do you get the sense that his government is approaching this in that way. To a large extent are because. I have. Been caused by the whole move from being in the country. To you know the infrastructure and the livelihoods of. But. They have. Which I returned to which was the 1st. Since in all this money into the. Central Bank. For the general public. Why the money and what is the purpose for that. If I could turn this to you Nick Butler I'm sorry we lost your audio there briefly you've worked at B.P. Which is a major oil company and so you're familiar with some of the issues from sort of the other side of the table here what do you see as the most important thing for the guy and his government to be doing right now I think. They have to be very. Very. This is going to be developed. There was any production and then I. Think another maybe busy busy. Their investment. So there isn't going to be a massive inflow of revenue into a Ana for 5 years or more I think the 2nd thing they need to be aware of is that as I understand it I think Samuel's writing what he said the skill levels in the country don't yet match what is going to be needed for this this is a sophisticated industry and there are many people trained in it now I think there needs to be a program of training people so that there are jobs for Guyana and citizens not just for Americans and other foreigners not for that that would be a real risk and I think the danger if you don't get expectations right on the boat mind if I try to stop you how realistic is that I mean we're talking about working on an oil rig where much of the production is 120 miles offshore I mean is there much of that work is extremely technical it is done by people who have spent their whole lives doing it so a job I guess now most up of some of those jobs are going to go to far enough to non going on and people but I think there are quite a lot of other jobs that's going to need a lot of infrastructure between the platforms on the shore that's going to be need to be processing facilities on shore there's a lot of backup. People working on it will need housing down the looking out to their old all sorts of business opportunities here on the country house to prepare for that some of these parts of the way of getting that benefit and then I think they don't need to develop it all at once I'd be very strongly in favor of those depletion Coliseum I mean to limit what you produce year by year to manage the inflow of money so that the exchange rate he's not destroyed by this one single successful industry and run with it but if they got that wrong that would be very bad for agriculture jobs and other businesses in Guyana In other words if there is such a huge wave of foreign currency coming into the country their exchange rate gets out of balance and it becomes it is cheaper to import many of the things that Guyana produces for itself right now and then you would lose employment in all those different industries right you create unemployment rather than employment it's called the Dutch disease there are many examples of it I think the country should look to others to give them best on vice on how to manage this and actually negotiate with Exxon Mobil and I agree with Samuel they should be transparent and roll guy goes we heard Samuel talking about this contract that was negotiated with Exxon Mobil and some discussion about whether or not Guyana was getting a reasonable share of the proceeds here obviously in these production sharing agreements some portion is going to go to Exxon Mobil and its other oil company partners to help them sort of reimburse for the investment that they made and then make a profit and some share is going to go to the guy guy and he's government but what's what's the right amount. Well I'm not going to comment on what the actual percentage should be but I think it is important both that the companies and the government are in sort of that either side is comfortable with the agreement has been reached and that also involves not just the president and his advisors but certainly it involves educating the population about why a particular agreement was reached what's the likelihood or reality of the negotiation and essentially what what were the points that led to that agreement because as a senator was pointing out this is true Asian where you have a new industry a country that doesn't know about this population that is not familiar with the way the oil business works and so it is imperative that the government become as transparent and as. Didactic as possible in every step that it is taking because it is very easy for the population also to think that it's leaders given that the leaders also don't have experience in managing a soft as opposed to get oil oil business could take missteps and could be taken advantage of if you will so it's important that there is clarity as to why certain agreements reached I think the interesting thing is going to be also how open both the companies and the government are to renegotiate their contract if there is a widespread perception that it could have been much better for the country. You know we've seen the oil advisor to President Granger speaking publicly about how at least the level of the royalty should be much higher I mean we've seen that the C.G.X. Contract and he actually on contract talk about a one percent royalty. And you know we've seen the president's own adviser saying that it should be closer to 10 or 20 percent. Again you know comparing. One country to another or one well sector to another can sometimes be comparing apples to oranges so one has to be very careful in regard but there are certainly you know sort of the basic. Standards of what were relatively well accepted standards across across the industry as to why you get a certain level of room to a certain level of taxation and a certain level of sort of profit sharing in this case we're seeing that in the case of action we're talking 5050 sharing of profit oil C.G.X. Is slightly more for the government but still I think I think it's important again to be as transparent as possible as you know education was possible but why certain steps are being taken. Will I want to come back to this point in just a moment role but we are joined on the line by infamy Bryan know of the University of the West Indies who has been following this issue quite closely as well from Trinidad and Tobago and I want to ask you about the brand particular because Trinidad and Tobago is also a small nation that has been an oil producer for some time what are some of the environmental concerns for a small country when you have sort of a huge offshore oil find like this they're going to environmental concerns are many . Really begin with a question or more and there are. Broken pipe lines. You know. Function things like that and. They will have suffered from that and a 120 years of oil production so I think Guyana would have to update its mark time and buy or mental management. And be prepared in the event of. I think that some of the exploration and production companies there's a very bad history of. The company or now on paying for problems like that and that also I mean when you talk about obviously in the U.S. Many people are familiar with the Deepwater Horizon spill which caused so many problems in the Gulf of Mexico in just the extreme difficulty in even stopping the oil from being pumped out of the ground there then I mean what does God need in terms of infrastructure in terms of ships and people to be prepared in the event that there is a significant spill. Well I'm not sure that the Guyana would have the infrastructure of capacity to deal with that that is that as with by the companies themselves by the I.O.C. . So that I think they have to be firm sort of around where they accept responsibility . And in the meantime granted that with respect to what is an environmental management system. Most of this is the all. Deepwater oil there is nothing on land and some of the the idea of land still not there however the effective and he you know spillage out of offshore is going to effect the shot down and like everywhere else they have to be prepared to do that well Nick Butler if I could turn this to you I mean I think one of the themes that keeps coming up again and again that we heard from Samuel and from Roland Anthony and from yourself is that there is this sort of imbalance in sort of capacity between Exxon Mobil I mean that's a company with $250000000000.00 a year in revenues going as a country with a $3000000000.00 a year economy how how can these sort of work these issues out equally How does major oil companies view their sort of moral ethical responsibilities in situations like this Well I think most of the companies do realize now that there is an issue of mutual advantage here there's a lot of oil it's going to continue to be developed and I think we're only at an early stage of the 1st fines that could be quite a few more I think Exxon our actually have a good track record around the world of working with local countries helping them to design the facilities they need as Professor Brian says on the environmental side on the safe side. But they need to come together to do it but there are things that only the government of Guyana can do and I think they need to start doing them now they haven't got experience in this I think they should draw only experience of other countries I was in Norway last week and the Norwegians were saying they would be happy to help they actually have a fund that goes to countries that have just discovered oil which helps them to do the right thing to gather the skills to train people to understand the challenges and I think go into should look outwards take advice be transparent and then work on an open basis with the company to get the right sounds and roll guy goes we heard obviously we discussed some countries that have had a number of problems major major problems after their oil find Nick Butler just mentioned Norway are there some examples of countries that have handled their oil wealth really successfully and sort of is there like unclear easily explainable road map for how to do that. Well I think there's a number of countries not only oil countries are also resource rich countries like Chile for instance with copper that have set up funds to save some of the money for rainy days were invested properly so that you have returns that can benefit both the population and the government you have the case Alaska the state of Alaska in the United States for instance has a fund where no one can touch the capital of the farm and you know that the residents get you know when check every year from the returns of the pond and not turn citizens into watchdogs of how the oil sector is being managed and also forces politicians to do more with less well but there is no ready roadmap as you well I think it is very tricky for you know at least over. Earlier. Countries already have the oil flowing to try to set up that infrastructure because by then there are certain interests how either control the money or you know you have politicians trying to remain popular and use up money to maintain popularity. So it's important that you have the infrastructure in place for the ideal cannot always do that but in this particular case since you have so many years. To figure out how to manage it I think Guyana has a unique opportunity to. Set up that legal infrastructure and the law and then to me Brian if I could turn this to you a row made a number of good points there but I was interested particularly given that Guyana is a multi-party democracy. Great you see the risks are that upon the political elite will try to just sort of capture these funds in the oil will just become sort of a source of corruption and help them perpetuate their own power similar to what has happened in Venezuela in other countries. I think it's a good possibility. You know one of the things the. Politics of Guyana whose population is 29 percent are programmed he says 40 percent in the UK and he and they divide along racial lines 2 main ethnic groups compete over money on policy so I think that don't be a test of that certainly by the presidential election about 2020 here if that for political stability as well as for money and power all because you aren't there 2020 Alexion is going to be in power when the 1st oil money starts coming in exactly the point. Where we'll be in power you know who or what was the it was a piece of the resources I wouldn't I mean immediately accrue any thought of. Corruption influenzas on it up the government but some recent opinion poll is done and I feel that the. Public has very little faith in the leadership in the government our position to do the right thing so like everywhere else in run the risk inequality of those corrupting influences taking hold and that's going to do it for this edition of GLOBAL journalist a production of the Missouri School of Journalism in K.V.I.A. Mid Missouri public radio many things to say music Nandan rogue goes into me Brian and Nick butler for joining us our system producers this week are Rosemary Belsen into the door are you reaching with supervising producer you don't close to one choice visual editor an intern hey is audio engineer our directors Travis McMillan for all of us a global journalist I'm just a McClure Thanks for tuning in. And you have been listening to global journalist right here in the maybe most people powered community radio. Redwood community radio. Hi I'm Tony Nestor from Twyning old Macallan and I'm April more from the ranch party and you're listening to Redwood community radio K M U D Garberville 91 point one F.M. And H.D. One and in Shelter Cove 99.5 at 10 am you hear you get 88 point one F.M. And 81 and K.L.A. I in Laytonville 90.3 F.M. Internet stream us at K. And U.T. Dot org. Right and support for K. Modem has been provided by the last Frenchman wood fired pizza in Redway now serving breakfast and dinner specials as well as Panini's salads juices and smoothies made with fresh local and organic produce gluten free and vegan options are available last Frenchman is open Monday through Friday from 9 to 9 the number for takeout or reservations is 123-2030 game of programming is also underwritten in part by the Law Offices of Edmonson who reminds cannabis cultivators that abatement orders are being issued in there are qualified attorneys available for legal help at Denson has provided legal services for the cannabis community for over 18 years specializing in consultations for criminal defense cannabis licensing abatement defense and environmental charges 123-4764 events in it as is dot com and support for came up comes from Nor Cal mechanic L O L L C building and maintaining sustainable living environments and humbled in Mendocino counties for.