We have the right to protect our property and the cost as a factor has a point up by Mr Williams. But businesses are burglarize big news businesses are broken into and we respond with law enforcement they have that right rancher should have the same right to have some type of help with basically. The protection of their wildlife. With that said if you just have non-lethal you have taken a tool from the belt we we provide or law enforcement with many different tools to deal with many different activities that they have to deal with we don't take tools from them we give them more such as tasers or what pepper spray and here you're trying to dictate it down to one item and I don't think that's right and I hope that you will pass it thank you. Anyone else see no one else can forward it's back to where. Staff you want to make final remarks and then we're going to go to supervisors questions. If the supervisors have any questions about comments that were raised concerning e.r. The secret process were happy to respond to those otherwise I don't think he was having a pain I don't supervise and I don't think you know your. References been made to I think it's Table 3 point one where it shows the cumulative take over 20 years by species and. For many of the animals it breaks it down and killed captured freed and the fact that more animals are listed as killed then freed is cited is evidence that there is no I've. A commitment to not I'm lethal methods as a 1st course of action this is cited is proof that the emphasis is on lethal doubt that but I think and explain correct me if I'm wrong I'm assuming this is soley a tally of of one portion of the effort so. Yes where animals were trapped and then freed. They got the benefit of a non-lethal treatment but I'm assuming there's many other forms of non-lethal treatment that are listed on this chart that the. The trapper's would work down through the hierarchy and then when they determine trapping is necessary and that's what this table shows is am I on the right page there that's correct supervisor that's correct thank you supervisor Geraghty. As a chair it would be appropriate if we could ask a question of some of the speakers for example I would like to ask a question of John Bailey for me see how one extension Absolutely. Mr Bailey. Thank you for coming in today and for the work that you're doing over it and your staff are doing a p.c. Extension and. I'm curious. I look at that county's Ag Department website and it's not the most dynamic web site page I've ever seen it does house and links but I'm not saying it's not jumping out at me for example if someone was interested in needing to address predators on their property it's not apparent to me when this one goes the county website where they would go and what I'm wondering is if there would be an opportunity for the county to work with use the at hop land and and other stakeholders in the county to either create a new web page or just a much more dynamic web presence that could explain success stories challenges after property owners who are trying to deal with animal that predators on a non-lethal basis because it sounds like your organization you know really been on the forefront there. Thank you for the question I think that would probably be better done as an effort with Cooperative Extension down at the hop on research center we host research studies and we do educational workshops but the actually the 3rd party consultant to develop the e i r when I submitted a comment letter originally to the draft they came back and said well could hop one actually fulfill this non-lethal consultation mission and we said well that's not really where we work so cooperate of extension the county already help support is probably the best place to start they already have a a livestock advisor in the county who works with some of the stakeholders so I would probably defer to that part of our organization Ok so I think I understand that but they could certainly take advantage of that knowledge that you're essentially has. In in advising the county on how that. Educate the public on practices Yes and we can also you know we have worked with some wildlife ecologist to do and manage the research projects on the lethal and so we can help bring in some of those resources as well. And it takes question also Ok and we may want to bring up Mr Harper Ok And Ted was next but I'll call on you since you seem speak or did you have a question I do have the right. Of 1st 2 eyes wide your comments were actually probably the most balanced the entire day you emphasize the the use of non-lethal methods and yet ultimately there were some situations where lethal methods were the only effective method if I understood correctly but the majority of the cases you did successfully pursue non-lethal. We have had quite a bit of success using non-lethal Recently I gave a presentation on what our practices are and in developing that presentation I reached out to the researchers who have been conducting the non-lethal research and they kind of backed up our experience that non-lethal can work to a certain point but that having the lethal backup can actually if you are targeted in your uses of lethal control you can take out problem animals that then will prevent those behaviors from being learned in future generations so there is a role in our experience and from the researchers viewpoint that really targeted lethal control can prevent long term solution Ira problems and you made the point of the clock reduction was due to budget cuts but perhaps you could confirm or correct something else that I had heard that and we heard the previous speakers say that the flocks had been pulled back at some point I believe based on the terrain and it would have been difficult to employ nonlethal counted on a part of the. Research Station so there were some areas as a result were not grazed and what I had heard fire raced through those areas and I think the speaker made reference to it and then when it got to the areas that had been grazed the fire was down dramatically as out more or less accurate that's accurate from a. A I guess not to use the term for Georgia anecdotal evidence like Definitely we saw big differences on the ground from pastors that have been grazed particularly in the not to damage to the Oaks because without the grazing that understory there's a lot of fuels that allow the flame to creep up into the canopies and so we have some really dramatic boundaries where we grazed the. Summer right before the fire and on that side of the fence line we had almost 100 percent Oaks survival and then on the other side of the fence line where we hadn't grazed in about 5 years the majority the trees are dead and that hasn't been quantified by any you know research so but from our our eyewitness standpoint yes that's accurate thank you supervisor William c. You know you have questions of the speaker do you have any prior you using any protocols that it would not be available to a ranch earlier we heard that ranches aren't able to. Take care of business on their own because the law prevents them is that the case for 100 you have an exemption. We have a set of protocols that we could share that have how we deal with coyotes in particular you are you granted any additional rights beyond what a ranch would be would have and there are tools and understanding that. Thank you that's the only question I have for you I had a couple other questions for speakers and staff going on just one sec. Supervisor has Jack did you want to ask Mr Bailey No my pleas for him Ok Thank you sir thank you. Mr Harper there was an unanswered question for supervisor Gertie. The location on our website. I feel do you have your own website with you since we only have the Basically one county based website plus I maintain the livestock on the range website as well that. A lot of historical research and information on by species and by type of operation might be a Ranger or gate a pastor things of that nature so here we have several websites. Sometimes Who Judy . Is but your with you see extension so I was just looking at the county agricultural what website would where the farm boys are. So anyway I'm just hoping that there be a way for the county to work with. It's you revamped its website as it relates to this issue because I do think that one of the common themes that we heard throughout the day and through the letters we received is that people believe there are new or better techniques that are out there that not everyone is aware of and certainly we would want to do all we could do to get that information now certainly and I think the tally has a link to our. Our website for the county of Mendocino for the corporate extension is it's located on I use the server because we use a standard guys from county to county they kind of tried to stay with brand recognition of the u.c. And so but I believe that from the county side dish there used to be a link where I was county correct directly to our website I don't know if that's changed in the years that that I step down from that position but anyway it certainly would make it available I would like to address to if I May the question about you know calling our office I'm obviously the livestock natural resources advisor so if it was about predators or wildlife what I would if I received a phone call part of the conversation goes have huge Do you know what types of control methods would you consciously use do you have any objections we've had to do that in Mendocino County especially because there's a lot of people who don't like herbicides I get questions how do you control you'll start this whole very difficult to control without her sides but I give people the option then and I'm sensitive to anybody who has strong feelings one way or another as to which method they would prefer And so my role as an advisor is to give them the scientific information on what works what doesn't work and how effective it is and so you know if it comes down to they want to use non-lethal methods I can give them the basic plate of. A procedure she could use and then I can also tell them you know research that was done by Dr vault him over 30 years on no when does that become a problem coyote where lethal might be involved those are the kinds of things that we have to remain sensitive to everybody's feelings were we're just trying to provide the best science information to the consumer. Thank you so visor Hashim Thank you Madam Chair. Well this is the question for the gentleman from the a. And he was talking about feasible mitigations for. Pigs feral pigs and what I hear a lot of is is you know feral pigs causing a lot of environmental damage and tearing up people's property and also packs of dogs that are out there that have just gone feral that people have released and or are just out there terrorizing communities so what would you consider is feasible mitigation for situations like that yeah I'm not me to give you a good answer unfortunately. I was actually I'm new to this issue. I can only add to the background I've really just prepped 5 days on this and focused on specifically the letter that was sent so there might be someone else who's who can better answer. You and there is or if there is someone who can answer that right if you. Please don't be speaking out of your seat supervisor you need to ask for a speaker to come up is that what you want to know. Yes someone who could address that issue. Ok there's an individual. With the question is. If we're looking into a non-lethal way then how do you deal with these thousands of feral pigs in our county and these packs of wild dogs. Please you have to say your name in the record. Paul true or. You Kyra's it. With the amount of dogs before Animal control was dealing with this issue years ago then the sheriff's department took it over. With these feral dogs and feral pigs feral pigs or they're an enormous very difficult they're a prolific they breed very heavily they have $2.00 to $3.00 letters a year so. It's a real bad issue to deal with so I don't believe there's going to be a easy easy answer to that other than you know lethal predation So I mean I don't have any we haven't been able to control dogs except for with the sheriff's department doing a really good job now but the county so vast there are so many dogs running feral in there so it's a large pig population and given areas that it's an enormous problem so I don't think there's going to be non-lethal situation so I think again going back to Wildlife Services and those guys they can set up traps traps are very effective there are many different style of traps that you can catch wild pigs and those can be deployed on properties and then you have to deal with what you want to do they have to have brucellosis and other blood taken in drawing to make sure they don't have any diseases so I don't believe non-lethal is going to be able to handle that . Dealing with Wildlife Services as much as I have the dogs can be captured at times and the owner responsibility off and it's really difficult to you know to derive which owner have those dogs because there's no callers autumn and they are the latest So there is a way to you know to consult you know to the neighborhood to try to capture those dogs generally if they're running wildlife they're not. They're not an issue with people so they'll come back to wherever they find food and stuff so they can be identified in that community and then an effort to capture those dogs and you know maybe take them to the Humane Society or whatever but it's a big problem so it's not going to be an easy fix Mr Harper. I think you have under county statutes when you have domestic dogs involved the rancher can actually take that dog if it's basically and if it's killed livestock they can track down the owner request between 2 and 3 times the worth of the animal that that that dog killed on the wild pig side of it we're just now really getting into a study of that Dr Roger Baldwin who is a wildlife biologist to cooperate extension specialist I developed the wild pig that involves citizen scientists so if you have a smartphone did an android or Apple device you can report wild pig damage geographically. With g.p.s. On your phone the area of that damage and then from that we could calculate a damage dollar monetary value for that range land or that particular property that's been damaged by well fix so and we can we purposely made it so that no single ranch would be identified by the use of that out because a lot of people who like to hunt wild pigs will trespass and probably cause more damage to private property if they know where these well pigs are but we did think that this was something that was useful not only to Mendocino County and to the other counties but regionally and statewide and so that app is available where you get apps you know they are stored from Apple the Android place Google so it's available. Thank you supervisor Williams. Ok. We agree with Mr Harper that hunting during legal hunting season on land where hunting is allowed. Will do will have some effect some effect innocent on reducing. Pig pig depredation you do have in front of you the non-lethal alternative variation which allows for gunshot under certain circumstances so I think that's an area that you could explore and on the dogs I would also concur with Mr Harper that this is a worrying worrying livestock county you are a property owner is allowed to shoot or display shooter dispatch a dog that's doing damage on their property and indeed the sheriff's department is also available so whereas these are real concerns in religion issues there are solutions that don't require a wildlife service intervention as the means particularly in so far as the wild pig problem is indeed one that's really nationwide. Suffice it Williams. Farm Bureau commented that Monterey County has gone through this process and that the catalyst was litigation and that they've. Come out unchallenged is there anything we can learn from them maybe we could ask Devon if she'd be willing to I could speak to that if you'd like yeah you better. County had a program similar to counties they were also sued by the same petitioners who originally sued Mendocino County they prepared you are and then no further challenge legal challenge was made we took that to you our it was prepared and certified prior to the preparation of this and we took it as a starting point and then expanded on it significantly and added significantly more analysis more information. Specific to this county than the Monterey County had so we have taken lessons from our economy did and. Essentially what they did was certify any i.r. And the organizations chose not to sue you could certify the i.r. And unfortunately it can't be guaranteed that the organizations would make that same to us under said. I heard a comment that only 3 out of the 11 tribes were contacted Is that accurate. Was required as part of the secret process and I can look up specific details and we have that in the air if you could that will make a difference for me back on you know when we corrected Indigenous People's Day We made a commitment that we would work government to government and I find it troubling if we only contacted 3. Deputy county council Matthew to ask you let Nick follow up if need be there is actual list under a.b. 32 years post you have to create the 3 tribes or who are on that list not all tribes are on that list 4 of the reasons were so we asked planning and building for their list required under abt 2 for travel consultation and the county's list has 3 tribes on it in terms of as to why that is the case I can't say. And then I heard a comment that. The service whatever service we provide is like Gertie has checker Williams using another county service Well I've never once in my life thought to ask the county to pay for any expense for my private business I could understand calling 911 needing an ambulance which incidentally in this county we're short on today so this is what we're talking about today is a competing need we don't have ambulance service if you call 911 necessarily but everyone is entitled to the services those emergency services are across the board for all residents this particular expense is for one type of business it would be like a coffee roaster getting a sheet metal worker from the county and so I'm I don't know who could comment on this but I'm troubled about covering an a business expense for one type of business and so I would like to no matter which way we go lethal non-lethal some mix I would like to look at true cost recovery for the services provided it's Ok I think that. I can answer some of that for you it's every every county resident has had issues whether it could be a sky rock. And anyone can get service there are certain priorities I believe that are held so if you think back in the probably 25 years. Maybe 30 we've had at least 2 or 3 Revie outbreaks and horrible situations. Where it's not just livestock then it's horses was also domestic animals. We had instances throughout the whole county. The Wildlife Services help all people as best as they can We had 7 of these specialists throughout our history it went down to 5 it went down to 3 now you have 2 but it's not just ranchers it's all county residents that they go to help so last comment about that I haven't heard a single comment today from an every day resident about raccoons or skunks or rodents or any other type of animal you haven't been a supervisor long enough you get I get quite a bit and. It's also to do with llamas. Do with other pets that people have so I do take exception to that it is a countywide service. Not not not unless the supervisor asks we're getting kind of out of control here in the time that we have a supervisor McCowan I think you know you're out of the. Let's see I think it was about 8800 animals including birds taken over. 20 years 1318 of them were skunks I kind of doubt those were counted parameters for the most part I kind of think a lot of those would have been home odors out by how do I get to skulk out from under my house. I don't know maybe the people familiar with the program have comments on that. We have a couple of specialists I don't know if they're still here. No no no oh yeah and if we do have the Wildlife Services specialist maybe we could hear oh. Man please. Sir please come forward so can you name it for the record the question would be how often are you called upon to deal with a homeowner or renter that is experiencing they've got a skunk or a rock cooed or some other animal under their house or bothering them or so my name is Mark on the system state director of the wall exercise program here in California. Minutes you know is one of 36 counties that we service in the state . Are what we call our urban work varies from county to county Mendocino County is definitely my far on the higher end of the spectrum with regards to resurfacing urban citizens. Technical systems as was alluded to earlier is a major component of our program. We try we definitely believe in Teach a man to fish instead of give a man a fish that that level of responsibility we we posed to both urban customers as well as rule in their community. As do the exact numbers I can't tell you I can provide that to the board at a later time through staff. But we do a tremendous amount of technical assistance and direct control in the state in this county with regards to urban wildlife issues so hang on one moment now 3 well just to follow up so I think you did indicate that the. Proportion devoted to urban issues is on the high end of the scale here in Mendocino County is supposed to other jurisdictions that you work in. Yes That is correct there are some more heavily populated counties that have a tremendous amount of urban work as well but obviously it's the urban work is focused on the populated counties in your incorporated areas Fort Bragg being one of them that comes tomatoes skunks and racoons and things like that you're probably dealing more with. More urbanized environments and then. One more. Time loosen it so I'll let. You go I have similar questions where it'll help you or no you know. All and all. Of the $170000.00. Cost to the county how much of that is for personal versus business I couldn't tell you that if you could just approximately is it split half and how when you say personal or business you mean servicing a person or a business entity I would say I would say a farmer selling livestock would be commercial How much of it is just personal somebody calling about they have a skunk in their crawl space I'm looking I'm not going to hold you to it but just to run again for my staff because we have staff here that has has even recently retired that is 25 years experience with this program off the top in about 5050 Thank you yeah and I just want to mention that when we had. A cat. Up in tree overlooking the elementary school play area before school one morning it was spotted So you know that's just another example what do you do what was that now 9. I get my point I just call them that. But bigger than a domestic so you may have a combat we teach someone to fish so I assume by that someone house a problem animals getting into their house you would instruct them on how to exclude those animals from being able to get in there is out what you meant by the outcome of it correct there are a number of the same techniques and tools that is reported here is a non-lethal method non-lethal option is a lot of the research has been done by government not only federal government state government county government and we put we promote those tools because if Dick and circumvent their issues previous to needing need to control that is the preferred alternative that is our technical systems programming that is what was alluded to in in their earlier in the testimony thank you so hang on supervisor Hastert thank you Madam Chair So I I know that this issue skunks and racoons getting in people's houses underneath their houses underneath schools all that is an issue but I'm just wondering if we have 2 trappers for our county and we have all these people who are volunteering to do wildlife rehabilitation and such and I know we have it in well it's and those are people that are dealing with you know right there to deal with the issue isn't that a more effective model to deal with some of these you know skunks underneath the house. I'm not sure I'm the up 30 to speak on that but I do have a personal opinion. There is and I'm not speaking on behalf of non. Non-profit vs profit organizations. But. Wildlife is a public trust resource and it's the the public Dr and the public trust doctrine is beholden on to the government state wildlife agency is in is the the state wildlife agency that's here today is in charge of governing that resource we work closely with them hand in hand to deal with the public on wildlife issues and so I believe our practices are sound I'm going to speak about our program I cannot do the comparative thing that you asked but I believe our program is solid in practice in science and in law and in the statute and regulations and that's what we carry out everyday. Thank you yes. Not I'm sorry. We're down to the end. Where did you drive from. Ok I'll give you one minute. No no no no no no you got to talk into the microphone for the record Sonoma County wildlife rescue executive director I started a wildlife exclusion service 15 years ago every single day we do at least 3 exclusions a day where we go and do in wildlife in fictions we use natural resources like predator sand we block off and exclude all the areas skunks raccoons and possums can get into so they can't go back in again then the problem is solved for that person who owns property we charge for that the service brings in our nonprofit about $120000.00 a year the people who call us for help pay the money we do a lot of work over the phone you actually have to go out to the residents and block off their places the raccoons and skunks are getting in or they keep coming back and our success rate is 100 percent we don't have any complaints we've also trained now but wildlife center to start their own exclusion service Marin County is using the same services that we do and Humboldt County is now starting to use the services for 15 years I have to your but I want you to do something else for me come here I back up to the microphone please give your phone number into the microphone. 707-486-0226 thank you thank you. Ok supervisor. Macaire. So we do have. Project coyote and they're citing what they perceive to be the facts with the finally i.r. And state that we're not able to certify it they seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding know what we would be doing today if we adopted the resolution before us we would be certified the i.r. We would be making. The 5 beans the statement of overriding consideration and we would not be adopting a wildlife damage management control program. So the supervisor can I'll speak to the project Cody letter in the comments on the adequacy of the i.r. We have reviewed the letter it rehashes arguments and comments that were made in the comment letter on the draft you are as well as the scoping letter we do not believe that there are any fundamental errors with the fact we believe it's the the c.i.r. Is the gold standard for analyzing this type of program of the state no yard has ever looked at this type of program in this level of detail to date. So we disagree with private equity and the represented from a on the f. You claim that there are significant legal issues with the e.i. Are in terms of the. Items that are before you the options are before you are going to kind of counsel that. Kind of counsel Matthew So there are 2 options to alter resolutions today one is on the sacred document itself and includes not just a pursuit of find a are but also adopting the findings of fact in a statement overriding considerations that are in support of selecting an actual program going forward into the 2nd resolution is selecting and approving the Wildlife Services version of that program based on the commissioner's recommendation that being said if there's different direction from the board we would ask to not take action on either of those today and be able to respond whatever the border action is but this is the sequel certification itself is only in support of a program or a project to be adopted so that 2nd resolution is the program it is not a final contract with Wildlife Services that would have to come back in the future . I don't know if I could add one sorry one additional point to kind of conspiracy so that you know our that's in front of you will support has been drafted in prepared to support the adoption of the idea of your program the one that's been in place the non-lethal alternative any of the alternatives that are identified in the i.r. So while the draft findings of fact and statement of overriding consideration were drafted with an eye towards the staff recommendation if this board cites provide different direction the e.i.a. Are as is will support. Any selection of any of the alternatives of the board may choose I will say it's a little confusing you presented 2 resolutions correct and that's required under sequel you have to certify any i.r. That's a separate action that you have to do before well you get the program I think I think it could be done all as a piece but it's very easy to legally can supervise I'm sorry so Ok under sequel you have to certify that you are and only then can you take a separate action to approve a program and I would just like to say sir I thought it was an excellent idea I am not thinking it's a little disingenuous in the 1st resolution however where it says. This action is. Not. Adopting a program any action by the board to approve or any future action by the board to continue or modify a previously have proved. Program must be reviewed to determine whether it is consistent with the finally I r and complies with sequel etc. So. I think here. With all due respect to resurrect I think you're confusing 22 issues the 1st is. There's 3 issues actually 1st to certify me i.r.c. Quote mandates that the board certify any i.r. And make findings on that that's one action be the resolution that's been prepared for that purpose including the findings of fact and the same overrides were drafted with an eye towards the fact that staff was recommending a particular program that doesn't mean the board has to go down that road the next step is then approving the program the paragraph you just read actually concerns future approvals by this were not approvals today so one of the issues that has the supervisors who are on the board 5 years ago when I 1st engaged in this matter and here have realized is that each year when the county was approving the annual work programme that was an action or sequel they required some sort of sequel or proof of this c.i.r. Has been done has been drafted and prepared so that if this board were to adopt the idea b.n. Programme each year when you revisit the annual work plan and take that separate authorisation you can continue to rely upon the c.i. Are subject to change circumstances so that state is actually referring to those future actions supervisor not approval of the 5 year program today potentially. So the program is being approved by several resolution. The purpose to that language from the e r resolution is to indicate that this is a program yaar that can be wrought relied upon for that action whatever whatever program this is for decides to prove that actions and future actions to recertify readopt refund that program in any way. Assuming that the standard secret for change circumstances aren't met and one more. As if the board tops the 1st resolution and then if the board chooses to adopt the 2nd resolution which would authorize the Ag commissioner to come back with a 5 year agreement at future time for approval. Does anyone perceive a problem if the board gives a direction to. More fully integrate some of the non-lethal methods recommended by other people so that that. Could be added to the hierarchy of non-lethal actions and I don't see that our people or the Wildlife Services would be supervising these folks in any way but it could be publicized and offered as an option is kind of what I would how did buy. From a sequel perspective there are no issues with that I'll let County Council curiosity answer that sort of was just a question. Different kind of counsel Matthew from a logistical standpoint I think we want to get some clear direction as we could get direction from the board as to what those things might be moving forward today. The 2nd resolution of selecting a program and but as a staff as stated it is this program as it is if there is direction the board wants to give to for staff to work with wildlife services to try and integrate certain changes we would take would take direction on that today continue the public hearing and do it as a next year frankly to bring back. Those a new contract and do all that all these things at one time so we can report back to the board on the results of negotiations with Wildlife Services in terms of what the what's requested and what what they believe is feasible or workable I guess and of course I'm going to fly here but I guess what I really have invited not that it would be part of the agreement with Wildlife Services but these would be additional options that the county could make available by publicizing it on you know the Ag Department website we've heard 2 or 3 different groups that claim they have credible programs potentially we could offer them as resources that people could. Choose to contact on their own We're making no representation but we're simply making these options available for people who want to pursue it something like that. To kind of counsel math you could draw skis I don't know that would need to be integrated into a resolution that could just be direction to staff to add to work on that report revamping the web page to include additional resources and links to other programs or entities so that being said we could do that would not have to be come part of the resolution. It would be a standalone direction to the High Commissioner. And actually planned. Research Station did put on several programs I believe with the coyote project not totally. Correct on that need that. When I did this google. For nonlethal and it brought up a lot of organizations that you go go look at with their recommendations and educational pieces. Supervisor has checked Thank you Madam Chair I guess what supervisor McCowan is talking about about tweaking this contract with Wildlife Services and even. If we got a working group together to really look at what some of those other groups are saying and and worked with Wildlife Services and u.c.i. Extension and to see who can do certain parts and maybe there's these groups that can do you know some of the non-lethal parts a lot better than Wildlife Services could we would stand to tweak the contract in that way and still be within the. Well actually I'm not proposing tweaking the contract this would be additional options that we would publicize that people could pursue on their oh well I was just kind of going off on. You know tweaking the contract with i.v. That was their proposal Well no I think that gets too complicated on how would that work yet is that something that we could work out and still be within the CIA are. So that you are is very broad in terms of the scope of. Programs that are studying the theory and so the various alternatives the board is free to pick and choose different components from different programs and put them together in any way it wants to and then staff to be directed to make the appropriate findings to link that all together I can't speak to whether that's appropriate for the wildlife service contract or not that would be awesome to come from but thank you that's the information I needed. See vice a really and yeah I would support supervisor has checked on that concept and so I think my final comments where I stand. I like the hop and research model I think we have something to learn from them I understand that it's non-lethal 1st and then there is a lethal component to it where that's the only option I understand ranchers need that ability I have a problem paying $85000.00 of public funds for private business I don't think it's county's job his job to subsidize any business and we've been saying this all along policy is full cost recovery this is an example where we're breaking it it's like significant dollar amount and then last I have a concern that about mitigating lawsuits I know we've heard a threat here today I'm not going to go to space on threats but realistically. Taking the c.i.r. Forward I do see the potential and it's already cost us so much. I'm so focused on we don't have reliable ambulance service we can't throw out $85000.00 for someone for wildlife problems before we correct the ambulance problem that affects humans when they call 911 thank you but we are responsible for public health and save we and that is a component I mean I won't get into a big debate we're going to ask my opinion we're going to going to agree to agree because the 85000 is that what I heard is the business portion of it the public safety there's a rabid animal Yeah that's a responsibility we need to take on I fully support funding that and using you know science based cost effective methods but getting into private business just doesn't sit right with me I think we need a cost recovery model where it's a pay for service just to reduce just to allow the county to recover the actual cost. Supervisor Macallan well take him out I'm sure. I think it's kind of a package deal there's probably appointed which it's about cost effective to have a contract just to chase coax. So I'm not sure that it's workable. And as far as supporting private business. It's a full range of it's from the homeowner it's to the hobby farm or it's to people that are actually trying to be in production Ag and the value of wildlife and poultry and products to Mendocino County in the last crop report I think was approximately $23000000.00 Agassi huge part of our local economy. You know we're still kind of a resource based County. And the public enjoys the benefit of being able to see the open spaces in the natural landscape many of the ranchers actually have certificates of compliance which allows them to effectively subdivided their property without going through a real subdivision process they can just carve out $40.60 acres whatever their certificates have recognised and sell those parcels and someone can breed build their little dream home in the country and that land probably goes out of production so I think there's a lot of benefits to this program it's not just targeted to benefit a few private landowners maybe another way forward incorporating supervisor asked Shaq's. Comments are if it potentially and this would be up to Wildlife Services if they found this acceptable but potentially we could write into the contract that when they're con contacted regarding you know nuisance issues that they would inform the people that there are these other organizations that do offer services you're free to contact them. It's your choice would be sceptical. Well that's certainly where I'm going with this and I think that it's getting late now we've talked a lot we've had a lot of good points from both sides you know and there there's certainly a need for this service but at the same time. Can we get those some of those stakeholders together in some kind of ad hoc committee you know in January and Democrats. And and try to work out some of these issues and see where where these local community groups can play their part and what part Wildlife Services plays in it to you know I think that might be able to. Decrease the cost and use some of these non-lethal methods that people are talking about and provide greater communication with them in any way that's I'm just looking at trying to figure out how to move forward with all this information that. Well I I think the fact is that escapes people non-lethal methods are already being deployed and we're told repeatedly doubts actually is the preferred option. There's some animals problem animals based on the nature of what they're doing and we haven't heard it from John Bailey who again I thought How the most ballots for comments was that he wanted to use strongly committed to non-lethal it yet there's times it's necessary I don't want to. Put. You know too many restraints on the ability of wild life services to do their job I perfectly willing to give these community groups. Publicize he and referrals so people can make a choice do I want to go with the Sonoma County organization do I want to go with the Mendocino wildlife is sort of. I don't know a project coyotes offering to work with us but you know I think it's perfectly fine to make all these other options available I just don't want to bog down the contract to where. Everyone is 2nd guessing Wildlife Services every step of the way Jim Donnelly county commissioner. I did make a comment about some funding yes and. I can get for about 40 percent back through gas tax on the following year for the post prevention program so that would bring the cost down somewhat and there there was. The collection in the past that the. People who use the services did return some money my money back to the county. So supervisors. Can entertain a motion and till we close the public hearing supervisor has check yes I'll move your people I'm just wondering if you're through with discussion. So we're through with you discussion I can close the public hearing so then we can entertain a motion I'll discuss one thing Ok is. I think what people want is they want something to take care of the animal issues that we have in our county and. So we need kind of that wild life of this approach to a degree but we also want to I you know the one comment that resonated with me was Where is our focus and people want to know that you know these lethal methods are the last resort so I'm just trying to figure out a way. To make sure that those are accommodated and I think you can accommodate both the desires. Case Supervisor Macallan. Thank you Madam Chair So I'm looking at the recommended action motion and the 2nd part of it is we would adopt the resolution adopted in integrated wildlife damage management program and authorized a chair to sign the same. And with everything we have posted maybe I'm missing but I don't see the actual agreement is it there if I may click clarify Madam Chair the contract hasn't actually been negotiated with Wildlife Services after adopting the resolution adopting the program staff would need to take that step and then come back with a contract to the Board for approval that time so the motion might not be completely accurate since we would not today be authorized in the chair to sign the same since nobody's seen it I believe that's a rough if I may through the chair I believe that was a reference to the signing the resolution not signing a contract. Adopt a resolution the resolution it tops the program. I think it's messy Ok I'm going to close the public hearing. And the matter is now before the board supervisor Geraghty. I think these are 2 separate actions we have 2 separate solutions we will take them separately so I would like to move to adopt a resolution certifying the environmental impact report for them as you can the integrated wildlife damage management program and up the findings of fact in a statement over and considerations Tucker Ok so we're going to take them separately I think that makes it Ok at the end of that is there anything that the chair has to sign should that be added. I've included that in the motion authorized to sign same for that resolution Alrighty they have a motion and a 2nd vote by the button motion carries a supervisor Williams dissent and. Supervisor dirty I just want to add and and so else may want to make a motion but but my thinking on the 2nd resolution is that I think at this point we want to I want to go ahead with the contract with wildlife management but I also want the county. To on its own make we make these other resources more readily available I understand that Wildlife Services may or may not do that we don't know that's a detail we worked out but there's nothing stopping the county from revamping its website and making that information more readily available which I would like us to to do and and there's nothing stopping us from working with wildlife you see. Why like the local Wildlife Association in well it's missing County Farm Bureau stakeholders to look at how we could better promote those services and and just do it you know annual check and I mean we have to have an annual report from this from one of services they could collectively review how is the program going do they have suggestions that this is you know not a program that needs to be stagnant and static year to year it can evolve over time it would you like to make a motion. Do you want to refer to supervisor McMillan I think he's going to make a motion. So. I move with Doc the resolution adopting an integrated wildlife damage management program and authorize shared to sign the same with further direction to staff. To incorporate on their website I. Other organizations providing non lethal services so. I listed. Ok Just Ok Do we have a 2nd and I'll 2nd but hey maybe we could also include in that we will the 1st app to also work with stakeholders on on publicizing that but that those programs I would accept that. So direction to staff to work with stakeholders to publicize non-lethal alternatives and incorporate them into the county website Ok I have a clerk Do you have that. I have a mission my supervisor Macallan a 2nd by supervisor Gertie to adopt a resolution adopted in an integrated wildlife damage management program and authorized her to sign Same with further direction to staff to both incorporate on their website other organizations provide a nonlethal services and work with stakeholders I'm publicizing those programs and want to go to county council no problem with the motion no concerns I think that's a reasonably clear stuff Ok Thank you Madam Chair. I'm not going to support this because I just think that we have the opportunity here to work with these other groups in a more real concrete way and not just jump in the. Contract with Wildlife Services and so I'd like to I'd like to go back to forming an ad hoc committee to really listen to all the material want to fight to find out after finding out I word without just jumping in the 5 year commitment devise and Williams Yeah I agree with supervisor has checked I think it's rushed it feels like a rubber stamp and I don't think we can afford a. Supervisor Macallan. 3 years 4 years that we're rushing into this but. Exercising the awesome power of the chair starting in January you can appoint an ad hoc if you choose it doesn't have to be either or. But I support moving forward today. And if something more comes out of it going forward we can incorporate it and I'm going to support the motion we're going to vote by the button. Mushing carries a supervisor has check in with his dissenting Kay thank you very much Mr Smith. Also. Been working with you quite a while thank you sir for your yard it was excellent. So it worked. For us in the Royal we're thirty's history. Was that it got me thinking about you know I don't care anymore you know. Hopefully she had lighting up in your mind yeah I think today's live coverage of the border supervisors in Mendocino County next is to you see a Kimock radio become a member look us up at the website k make radio dot r.j. Or a dollar 0 make you. Part of the Mendocino environmental center entitled to our newsletter meke notes and much more are going to had been involved with the community and the levels. And. We're going to start up with. Do you see now.