Steve Gregg and the narrow path. Our 1st caller today is Gloria calling from N.P.R. California and Gloria welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling Hi I have a question and. A friend and I very audibly and and. This time is on whether or not. There are one my beliefs might. Have led me to believe that they are although he's been constantly. Throwing scriptures stating that he is. Talking about the father being the higher level in pointing out Scripture and I'm awful you don't let the scripture that says he and I are one so I wanted to know what your thoughts are in the Navy you can. Maybe give a better answer to that question well I can try you know when we talk about the oneness of the Godhead where it's very confusing to so many people and perhaps all people because it's never really explained very clearly in the Bible but we could ask your friend. Do you believe that a husband and wife are one well the Bible says they are one they're one flesh yet we know that in some senses there are 2 So in one sense they are indeed one in another sense they are 2 and I think that's how the Bible would indicate the Godhead is that in one sense God is all one in another sense there are 3 The way that this is traditionally been stated in the in the Creeds is that God is one in substance but 3 in person now the word substance in the word person are not used in the scripture that way so those are just ways that theologians have tried to you know make sense of the material but whether one chooses to say that God is one in substance and 3 in person or wishes to say it some other way the Bible certainly does indicate that Jesus and the father in one sense are one in another sense they are 2 same thing with the father in the Holy Spirit or Jesus and the Holy Spirit they are in one sense one in another sense fair to now in what sense they are one we are never really told in the scripture and that's why the theologians have had to come up with words that are extra biblical and not found in the Bible to try to explain it. All I can say is you're both right and Jesus did say The Father is greater than I And yet in the very same chapter which is John 14 he said if you've seen me you've seen the Father and I am in the Father the Father is me and you know a few chapters earlier said I and my Father are ONE So either Jesus was confused or gets a frantic or all his statements are true and I believe all of his statements are true but in what sense they are true he has never really explained and that's where theologians try to get busy with things that maybe maybe aren't that profitable to try to sort out because our relationship with Jesus I think does not depend on our full understanding of the nature of the Trinity but when you say that Jesus and the Father are One You certainly have the Bible on your side when your friend says the father is in some sense is treated as a separate entity from Christ Well she's got the Bible on her side too the Bible is makes both of those points and it though it does not tell us in exactly what sense Christ and the father are separate and in what sense they are one it does affirm both I have my own theories and my own mental images that my mind is satisfied with but I have no assurance that the way I eventually as the situation is really the way it is all I know is that the Jesus is one with the father but he also has a separate identity from the father and how that is true I don't know but like I said a husband and wife are in one sense 2 people in another sense they are one their one couple their one family their one flash as the Bible says so I'm just going to have to stick with with that kind of simple approach to things OK I agree with that I actually support it but he couldn't support the one that I. Supported which is also in Scripture which is a father and I is one I could support both but he can see both sides and so that was a problem that's kind of yeah that's kind of how the Jehovah's Witnesses are they say they see the passages that say that Jesus and the Father are in some sense separate and they make that the whole story and then they have to either ignore or twist or change the verses that say that they're one and then there are some Christians who don't understand the separateness of the 2 and they insist only that they are one and you've got the one this Pentecostal Not really I mean you've got to deal with all the scriptures which in the ones that say that the father in Christ are one as well as one to say that there is a separation. Identity in some sense so some people are just not satisfied till they can understand everything I I like to understand things but when information isn't available to fully understand it I'm willing to just let God understand it that's true OK thank you very much for your answer OK Gloria thanks for your call by now. OK Our next caller is Evan from Albany Oregon and welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. I'm at work right now on a break so I was just going to have cereal quick and then this'll be online later right yes it will OK I'll just ask the questions and then take their responses later on line so I have 2 quick ones one of them's about that because I'm we're kind of. In my church group going through X. And talking about how the people you know want to say except the crash state they baptize them right then but then the verse says John baptized with water you should be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And I've heard you talk about this before as far as I don't know I just a time just I know that I don't believe you don't go to heaven if you don't get baptized but I I guess I want to know the relevance of being baptized other than being a sick sick significant thing to show the public that you that you're a believer in Christ so that's the 1st question and then the next question is. When Jesus was crucified it talks about his mother Mary being at the cross you know and weeping and I was wondering where Joseph is at this point. So and it doesn't reference women. As far as being there either so I was wondering about those 2 things OK OK. OK Evan thanks for your call. Let's take that 2nd question 1st or where was Joseph when Jesus was crucified Mary was of the cross I think we'd have to assume that Joseph was not any longer living and the reason is because when Jesus was on the cross he saw his mother and he saw his disciple John standing there and he basically said he committed the care of his mother to his disciple John and we're told in the gospel John that from that day forward Mary went home with John and he took care of her now that would hardly be necessary if she had a living husband to take care of her so it would appear that Joseph was no longer. On the planet at that time in fact there is evidence that Joseph probably died before Jesus began his ministry because we find in the very beginning of Jesus' ministry Mary and Jesus brothers are at a feast a wedding feast where Jesus performed his 1st miracle. And Joseph is not said to be there and then we find that Mary and her sons at the very beginning at near the end of chapter 2 John they are traveling with Jesus in the early part of his ministry and it seems strange that Mary and her children be traveling with Jesus yet she still had a husband at home and a household to maintain so it would appear that Mary by this time was probably a widow it's inconceivable of course to suggest that Joseph was still living but had somehow divorced her or something and set it free it's Joseph God chose Joseph because he was a just man and a just man never divorces his wife so that would be an impossible theory so I the last time we read of Joseph in Scripture is when Jesus was 12 years old in Luke Chapter 2 and we read that Joseph and Mary were at Jerusalem with Jesus when he was 12 and and they misplaced him and and then relocated him again in the temple and that's the last time we read about Joseph when Jesus was 12 Joseph may have lived another 15 years or more after that we don't know because we have absolute silence in the scripture between age 12 and age 30 for Jesus but it would appear at least by age 30 Jesus no longer had a living stepfather and Mary was apparently a widow now as far as bad times and what it is that's something that different Christians are going to think different things about so I mean here I am I've got some microphones like I'm in the position to give my understanding of my position but there are many Christians. Some of whom probably are listening who have different views about Islam than my old Roman Catholic Church for example believes that when you baptize an infant that it removes the original sense from them and I don't think there's a thing in the Bible at all that supports that some people think Baptism is the mark of the covenant that should be given to all the members of a Christian family this pic like circumcision was to the Jews so that you know what a man had a male son he had to circumcise his son on the day of the child's life to include him in the cabinet community many people see baptisms that way and that's the reason they give for baptizing in fact some believe that baptism regenerates you that it causes you to be born again in fact I even think that when Jesus said in John 35 that you must be born of water that he meant you must be baptized in water and they consider that being born again occurs at water baptism that's another view . Most haven't shall of course but I know. I don't really know what the statistics would be as far as opinions among Evans' articles but most 7 juggles I have known would be of the opinion that I have also and that is that bad system is a sign that the believer. Adopt willingly at the time that they throw in their lot with Christ you see the Bible teaches There's essentially 2 kingdoms in the world there's the kingdom of darkness which hate rules and then there's the kingdom of God where Christ rules and we are born in the kingdom of darkness under Satan's rule but the time comes in our life where we are born again and this can only happen if we repent of our sins by an act of our choice and put our faith in Jesus Christ and that putting our faith in Christ means that we're now acknowledging Him as our King and our Lord we're transferring loyalty from Satan to Christ. It's like it's almost like changing citizenship if you're born American. But you're born Mexican and you came to America and changed your citizenship became American citizen it's that big thing you're changing from one kingdom to another from having loyalty to one king to having loyalty to another and the transfer from one to the other is signified by passing through water this is because least partly because there may be other reasons too but at least partly because this is how God signified the release of Israel from their captivity in Egypt they passed through the waters of the Red Sea The Apostle Paul in 1st Corinthians 10 likened that to bad to them with the Israelites were baptized into Moses when they crossed the Red Sea Paul said. And really what happened was they had been the subject of Pharaoh and now they were coming out from under pharaohs rule to be an independent kingdom under God And so they were changing loyalties from Pharaoh to God and they were passing from the Kingdom of Egypt into the kingdom of God which was Israel if that time so passing through the water was like transitioning from one kingdom to the next it's like being born again into a new society into a new family into a new nation so when a person becomes a believer in Christ they are making that transfer from the kingdom of darkness the kingdom of light and they signify it by passing through water passenger water has a number of ways that it might signify that sometimes that it speaks of washing like I'm being washed in my past have been washed away and I'm coming clean a new into a new reality sometimes that pictures death burial and resurrection Paul says we were buried with Christ in baptism and raised in the newness of life apparently depicted by being submerged in water like being buried and then coming out again like being raised from the dead so these are perhaps pictures that bad tears and provides to help us help convey to us the idea that we've passed from death and a life or we've passed into a new life and a new loyalty. To me the significance of baptism to a believer is very much like the significance of a wedding ring on a bride before she is married she belongs to one family that's indicated by her last name she has her father's last name. Her maiden name is her father's name because that's the solidarity that's the family she belongs to but when she gets married she changes that her father actually gives her away actually surrenders her and she becomes part of a different solidary a different family and she takes on the name of a new person her husband and it's a new identity she's no longer an extension of her father's household she is now expression of her husband's household the transaction of course in which that takes place is traditionally the wedding or certain vows are made and pronouncements are made and so forth and a recognition of the of the families in the community and that she is now coming out from under her father's headship under her husband's headship is a transition just like when we're born again we come out from the rulership of Satan to rulership of Christ now at a wedding once the valve has been said usually a ring is given this putting on of the ring is a way of giving a visible sign that there has been verbal and legal agreement made. And of course when you say vows words are invisible things people hear them and know you said them but there's no visible sign that you said the master had been done so you put on a ring when you wear rings and everybody knows that you made those vows when they see that ring they realize OK you are a married person you have transitioned and yet of course if a wedding took place and the rings were lost let's say the ring bearing the kid very in the rings dropped them down a sewer grate and they couldn't find them so the wedding took place without the rings the couple would still be married with or without rings it's not the rings that make you married it's the rings that testify that you're married. Jesus commands us to be baptized so if we're going to become his followers being baptized is is the 1st thing we do to show our obedience to him and that's what I consider that tells him to be. And if somebody is listening to me and has decided to follow Jesus but has not been baptized I believe that maybe you haven't been taught properly but but you're being negligent on the command of Christ to be baptized than it should be redressed as soon as you can do so OK I hope that's helpful James from Las Vegas welcome to The Novak thanks for calling. You know while you're talking about the Constitution I've always said this thing about the Constitution the. Preamble to the Constitution. Where it says we are and by our creator with certain inalienable. Rights that being life liberty and the pursuit of happiness I believe accidental action independent. With that because I don't think that God made Ted arrangement. With the United States. You know in a don't bowl right. Well you know that's a that's a philosophical concept interesting to explore too because the by makes it very clear that if I if I if somebody makes a slave of me then I should be a good slave that's what the Bible says I should be a good servant to my master and therefore it's like God hasn't guaranteed me the right to liberty I could lose my liberty I don't even necessarily have the ability always to pursue happiness I think what it's saying is this not so much that I can claim my liberty in all circumstances against all contenders or that I can claim my happiness or anything like that I can't really claim that in fact I may have to lay down my life for Christ so I can't even claim my life necessarily but I think what it's saying is that the government does not have the right to infringe a person's life and liberty and pursuit of happiness so it's not so much in my opinion what they're saying is not so much that as a Christian I can lay claim in every case to liberty or my life or the pursuit of happiness but rather that the government has no right to infringe that claim that the government which is there to preserve my rights has got to recognize that the rights it has no right to infringe our right to my life and my liberty in my pursuit of happiness as a Christian I am often called on to lay down my rights to lay down my right to life even to die for Christ if necessary to lay down My life my right to liberty like the Moravian missionaries who sold themselves into slavery so that they could gain access to a slave community that couldn't be reached any other way they gave up their right to liberty. Or or my pursuit of happiness there might be things that I know that if I did them it would probably make me happier but but it would make somebody else less happy so I'm going to give up my right to that so that someone else can be happy. Those are things that Christians may in fact be called to do and I don't consider that I live my life. Conscious of a right to to live and be happy and and and be at liberty but. But the government needs to be aware that God has given such privileges to people and the government has no right to infringe on that I think that's what the phrase means at the beginning of the separation of an affair. In my mind you know I kind of like ducks. Democracy with the Kingdom of God. Democracy is a terrible concept and. The other is. Well that's true that's true but America America can't operate as the Kingdom of God because it isn't. You know that's the thing America is a secular entity all nations are only only Israel and it's in the old days back in the old past times Israel was. Given the privilege if they were to be obedient to God and be his kingdom and they would be different from all other nations including different from America in that God had a covenant with Israel and they could be his people in a special sense if they would be obedient to him but no other nation including this one has ever been given the option of being in the kingdom of God but the people of God are the Kingdom of God So as a as a Christian I'm part of the Kingdom of God. But America will never be the kingdom of God unless every last person becomes a Christian and if every last person is not a Christian then that means that we can't and shouldn't force people to worship God and to devote their lives to Christ in ways that they don't want to do I believe that God leaves that voluntary for people and therefore the question is in a government in a country made up of Christians and non christians what form of government is most just that is that does not in does not force non Christians to be Christians now if America was the Kingdom of God then it would be like Israel you can put people to death for blasphemy or for worshipping idols. But it's not that because the people in America are not all God's people like Israel was and so there is a slight difference there I agree with you the kingdom of God is what defines my loyalties and America when we talk about you know the way our country suffers a democracy or something it just is a way of saying the country is not to be ruled by some tyrant who forces people to worship God against their will. Yeah. You know the secular viewpoint of a democracy I mean there's nothing better than that but I just wonder know. When does democracy for the Christian. RINGBACK Come it ought to serving in. The Kingdom. Well you know a democratic society can become a tyranny of the majority in other words there can be injustice in a democratic society too because the majority of voters can impose on the rest of the country limits on their freedoms so a democracy doesn't necessarily guarantee that liberty will be preserved because for example if the majority of voters in America vote for abortion to be legal then they can completely take away the rights of the unborn child to their life and therefore it's a tyranny of the majority and. Democracy is not God ordained way of running a government but it does seem to be better than having a tyrant who imposes his will on everybody against their wishes because although God you know everyone should submit their will to God and follow God He does not impose that on people he doesn't force people to worship Him who don't want to heal to let them not worship him and then of course still exact the penalties that go along with that but nonetheless it's still his will that people should make their own choices I think. The form of government a form of government that allows people to really make their own choices will never interfere with Christians of fulfilling their mandate as the Kingdom of God I mean the government will not forbid them to obey Jesus. The very very revealing that I just wanted Europe stand on that and I appreciate that. All right was good in your brother OK thanks for your call by now I only have a about a minute before we're going to take a break at the bottom of the hour we have some of our stations leave the network at the half hour point the program goes on for an hour that is another half hour and if you are listening to a station that actually leaves the network at this point you can hear the 2nd half of the program by going to our website the narrow past dot com where we stream the program live and we archive it for later there's also caught cast and there's also our Internet our telephone apps which you can listen to the program all the way through on those apps and they are free so you might want to check those out the narrow path as a listener supported ministry and we pay for the radio time we buy the time on the radio there's no one paid at the narrow path I'm a volunteer everyone's volunteer a lot of people who volunteer but nobody gets paid a penny and no one receives any benefits but we do take the money that is given and we give it to radio station so that we can stay on the air and that's what we do like to help the stay on the air you can write to the narrow path. Box 1730. 4 new 9 to 593 You can also donate if you want to from our website than their old house dot com But the neuropathic com is a resource for you to take things for free everything is free there or you can donate at the narrow. Play stay tune in about 30 seconds we'll be right back to continue the program for the 2nd half hour. You were listening to the narrow band was diva Greg the narrow path his listener supported radio after the show we invite you to visit the narrow path dot com to learn more there are topical audio teachings and blog articles and verse by verse teachings and the radio archives of all our shows so when the show is over come on over to the narrow path dot com Learn the study enjoy We thank you for your support and we thank you for listening each day to the narrow path We now return you to the narrow paths with Steve Greg. Steve is not in the studio today so calls from listeners will not be taking place of the usual but together some of the best past. The cover of topics more than anyone interested in the Bible and Christianity and now please enjoy the special collection of calls to the narrow. Greg from Las Vegas. Welcome OK Got a quick question there I was wondering on the topic of marijuana. I don't know if you're from there you were a religion I believe they're called something like Yeah right are just oh well. You know what way can I. Marry one of. The mechanical chemical they believe in it they believe smoking marijuana is a sacrament. I think that with. Busy the man of God and what you cannot possibly word my conversation without sending in the let me know that it is a very difficult thing because they're trying to come at me from a biblical standpoint. I told him I cannot judge them but in my heart personally I feel like a man who claims he is a God I can sit down and we don't say to my wall or how do you see this. Well I'm with you on that but I mean. What you say they're trying to come to you on a biblical basis what what Biblical verses are they using he said something the. Church said that it. Says that it was a sacred honor and then linking that with marijuana. Well there's no mention of marijuana in the Old Testament specifically various mention of herbs of the field and plants and vegetables and things but this. On the lead gets a little wonky. I know some people who are trying to justify marijuana smoking point out that God gave man every herb of the field and says in Genesis chapter 2 and Genesis chapter one that every herb of the field God gave to man now that is true but not all of them are edible and there's never any indication that he gave any of them to smoke I firstly doubt that God gave tobacco to be smoked although some people may think he did it isn't good for people and it seems like God would only give good things for people to ingest I don't think that God made poison oak to be eaten or smoke so I mean that God made certain plants doesn't mean that we're that we do ourselves good to put them in our bodies there are poisonous plants I think may have meant just no value in something. I think that I think marijuana may be an herb that God gave for medicinal value but not for recreational getting high and certainly is not a sacred thing anyone who thinks it's a sacred herb is not really basing that on any teaching of Scripture you know the rest of far in their religion is just mistaken I mean they believe that Haile Selassie is the Messiah and so forth if it's a cult and therefore smoking marijuana is not the greatest of their problems there actually are the Rangers who really love Jesus who sometimes smoke marijuana I don't know why they do and I I don't think they should but the rest of our ends are more like a cult group and they don't really follow the God of the Bible properly I mean so I don't know all I would lead them to Christ rather rather than argue with him about marijuana I would discuss with them who Jesus is what it means to be disciple of Jesus and then. Look into that how about what is your view on the liquor and wine when you fall in when the Christians who say Well I think drink a little. Beer A lot can drink a little alcohol is a close eye on. What it was. Well I don't see anything wrong with saying that. I'm not a drinker myself but I don't see anything in the Bible that forbids drinking and in fact I say again alcohol is one of those things that survival treats as if it's a medicinal thing Paul told Timothy that because Timothy was having regular chronic stomach problems that he should drink a little bit of wine to help heal that you know so it seems to me that alcohol is a God given blessing to mankind I just like cough syrup might be a God given blessing to him who's got a cough but if you drink a bottle of it I don't think that's going to be a blessing you know there is such a thing as using a getting overdosed on medications and I believe that alcohol is a medication it's also given the Bible supposed to cheer the heart it says that it's all one of 4 and also in Judges Chapter 9 that's the hardest cheered by wine so I don't really see that anyone could say that wine is a bad thing. But obviously it becomes a bad thing if it dominates you Paul said All things are lawful for me but I will not be brought into bondage to anything and I'm afraid too many people will take something like alcohol which may be intended for some positive benefit in some usages and they will instead get addicted to being high and they come into bondage to it and then it ruins their lives and the lives of everyone around them. I think the other part of the vent. A little bit more Thank you. OK Greg oblation thanks for coming. By now let's talk to Marcella from all right Colorado next Marcella Welcome to the narrow path. Time Good morning my little to what you were just saying and that was so awesome that is so true and what you said about the time I wouldn't go in and taking care of this supply and you know meeting all of our needs to matter creek but my question is about forgiveness. And not counting our sins against us because I'm struggling with that right now because of the situation you know that I know and and instead of saying something to the person I was just deal you know I love this quiet because it was because of what the person did with my daughter. And that's left my daughter and and the baby and the whole 9 yards the supposed fear her husband and those young and so I've been praying for 1st of all for God to help me in to heal my hurt so that I'm not. Attacking the person or say something to the person out of anger you see what I'm saying long struggling with a little bit of of of us knowing how to pretty A in getting to a point if I should even talk to this person about it or if I you know display upon the Holy Spirit it's just it's all of your your your son in law there's your son in law abandon your daughter and child is that right yes and. And you're there anyway and you're not sure that you can you know so you could speak to him. Well know it well I don't know I guess to try to work it out and call me he asked me to go to dinner with him last night and I you know didn't really want to go but I went but I didn't say anything at all I said thank you for the dinner and that's because I would rather. You know well finally did you say they're trying to work out is he is seeing showing signs of he wants to come back to the family and be the husband that he is supposed to be in year out but it's only been a month and he just came into town to visit and so I really don't know what's going on the the what I mean it's not for me to. Really judge or whatever Right right it sounds like that I mean if he is he's apparently done the wrong thing but it sounds like he's wanting to amend his ways although you're not sure about his sincerity is that the issue now you'd like 22 years old and I'm not sure if that's really what what he wants to do because before he even made the decision to leave he was I go on the go and visit by family and I'm like What do you going to leave and go back to live with your family this is your family what do you know why is your profession Christian and. I'm sorry does he profess to be a Christian. Yes he does and that's where I really you know because when I spoke to him and tried to convince him not to leave him I spoke to him in love and from the Bible he left anyway but there was some other things that involve going to get been talking to another girl on the phone and on the Internet and all of the sudden the role A really don't care at all and because my God I open up my whole preach her to stay here with me and I've just been in constant prayer of been going to church I don't want to condemn him because that's not my job to do that's God's job too you know but I'm caught in the middle of well you know name. You certainly have the right to. To set terms if your daughter is living with you again and her husband wants to come around and if he wants to hang out at your house or hang out with you and take you out of whatever you certainly have every right to set certain terms and say well you know you can do that if on the occasion that gear ready to get to keep your commitment you made my daughter otherwise I want to choose not come around until you're ready to do that but as far as forgiving him goes you've got to realize that as Christians Jesus said we have to forgive others or else we won't be forgiven and in this case his sin is not even against stupor say it's against your daughter and you may be taking up with a grievance that's not not really yours primarily. I do think that whenever you see someone abandoning their spouse if you are a friend or family member. As specially if you are at the wedding and heard them make vows you have put yourself in a position where holding them accountable is your responsibility. You know but holding them accountable doesn't mean that you take up the grievance yourself may cause God could give your daughter Grace for the situation and not give you the grace for it because it's not your. Not your problem directly he's not doing this to offend you he's doing it to offend God and to offend your daughter and his own child he may not realize he's going to do that but that's what he's doing you're just taking a nap an offense because of course she's your daughter and obviously you're sympathetic is a very understandable but you need to make sure that that you. You know all your dealings with him as with anybody must be in love and sure you can get angry at somebody love you can anger your own children because you see them you know destroying themselves but but anger yeah the are predominant emotion toward them you've got sometimes you get angry because you love somebody and say Wait you're going to destroy yourself this way but but if they do you know love them. Yeah I'm not holding anger and bitterness you know when it happened then I won because a lot of them clearly you know I said I choose to give him from my heart. And you know the part that I'm having a problem with is that you know yes I forgive him but it's it's like you know falling down and giving your knee it takes time to heal I don't mean any harm towards PM or anything it's just something that I'm struggling with because OK Well forgiveness 1st comes forgiveness is 1st a decision it sounds like you made that decision it's time and verily it's secondarily something that perv a juror emotions toward a person only those change usually more slowly a decision to forgive can be made in an instant emotions usually have to evolve a little bit have to change gradually but they will it. If you hold your emotions to the fire and that is you you tell yourself when you have your faith in the wrong emotions that these emotions are not in agreement with what you've decided you've decided to forgive him and therefore any emotions of unforgiveness. Are inappropriate Now that doesn't mean they'll just go away because you tell yourself that but as you continue to tell yourself that you are exerting upon your emotions along pressure innocence and in the right direction and they do change emotions will conform eventually. But you have to be obedient while you're waiting for them to do so the main thing is if your emotions are such that you really are not able to have dealings with this young man without getting angry or expressing anger or something like that. Well then of course you would want to limit your contact with him and. Him play for him from a distance until your emotions are have come along just want to see what that meant from a biblical because when he 1st came to tell my supporting I'm sorry I'm not ready to see him and I actually went you know in the other Rome and then after they left you know I cried out to the Lord and I cried because I'm in pain could situation I naturally have the whole thing with how he left. So I just wanted to make sure I'm in line with what with what God says you know what she's wearing that is definitely because I think. You should be definitely indignant towards the injustice shown to your daughter and to your grandchild. If you're not indignant towards injustice then you're not morally sensitive. On the other hand I that's what I need to be and what I think about injustice but here's the thing you've got to remember that you have done sins also in your life we all have and therefore you should be indignant toward your sins without giving up hope on your own soul you know that is you still you still work on on your on your own spiritual life you still have a commitment to yourself in a way you know in spite of fact that you've sinned and you need to have the same attitude toward other centers that you're indignant about the sin but you see them as persons who are. Imperfect and broken and needing repair as well as new repentance repentance is the 1st step of repair but in calling the very pittance you should be doing this out of some kind of a sense of. Vindictiveness I'm not saying you are I'm just saying this is something that can't be allowed but you should call a person repents because you see their soul as something valuable and you're not just looking at the offense you're looking at them as a person that God loves and wants to redeem out of even out of this situation if they're going the wrong way or so I've got calls waiting a few very few minutes left thank I hope things go better for your daughter and I trust that this man's word to the marriage will be restored God bless your faith thanks for calling Ray welcome to the Arafat Thanks for calling Hi Good afternoon say hello you yeah good to hear from you yes I have a question oh I've got a younger friend actually the friend of my youngest son early twenty's Anyway he's involved in some things that he doesn't want to be involved in some drugs and and stuff like that and I've been talking to him over the weekend he goes back and forth from L.A. To Vegas so I see him every once in a while I just kind of the one of those kids that have always been around the house every once in a while you know and that kind of thing hooked up and I've been sharing with you heard very depressed and you know about God and my beliefs and such. And he wants something else and I need some educational and. You know he taught me that he was not a believer and that the way if he was if he did believe in God then He knows that God would help him but he told me that he believes in something called manifestation do you know when you think about that could you help me understand what he's trying to say there. Well it's a new age concept which I've also heard about from younger people. To tell you the truth back when I was talking to new age people back in the seventy's and eighty's I wasn't hearing that term but nowadays I do hear it from time to time and I think it's even somewhat related to the you know that that book that was such a big seller The secret it was kind of a new agey kind of you know you name it and claim it's kind of a book without God you know but the universe will respond to your positive actions and behavior and confessions and you'll get rich and powerful are so forth. Manifesting something as I understand from talking to people who who believe in such things and I'm not sure that I'm getting it right I've just tried to pick it up from hearing them sounds like what they're talking about is that by your attitude and by your words you are going to bring something into manifestation that you bring something into being are you free with the Word of Faith teaching in Christian circles Yes Yes I'm familiar with that OK you know the word of safety Ching is kind of similar they say that you know you will have what you say if you make a positive confession then the positive thing you confess will happen and if you make negative conversions then the negative things you confess will happen that's that's what the word of thanks teachers and that's similar this is this manifestation as I understand it least as it's been presented to me by people I've talked to who believe in it seems to be the secular the secular version of that that you know if you have a positive attitude a positive look out you speak positive things then life will be good for you you'll be manifesting good things in your life I say OK now I'm going to be seeing them again and you know I just want to do some homework. In a hurry up and you know. Stuff. Well you can ask him you can ask him if that's what he means yeah OK no I will on that now is not a very interesting you know that he did say that if he was you know because he is very depressed he's not on the hard drugs you know he smokes a lot and I came out of the late sixty's and early seventy's so you know I shared a lot of my Some of my experiences which. You know I wasn't very proud of. But he did so me that he was a believer that he knows that God would help and I find it very interesting. That he wanted to that is meant you know you believe in manifestation you know that type of thing so that there were the doors open OK Well in all in all likelihood in all likelihood and you can confirm this with him or or not I mean maybe I'm wrong but in all likelihood what he believes is that the universe will respond in kind to his attitude. Exactly and and that he'll be creating his own reality by his POV positive or negative attitudes and I would ask him you know well you know you say you don't believe in God. Christians believe there is a God a personal being who actually does respond to us not not quite so mechanically not so mechanically that if we do it if we say good thing that he'll to a good thing back I mean he's not that manipulatable but there is a that we do believe there's a personal being who actually has a mind in a will and responds to people in relationship and but the universe doesn't have that at least we don't have any evidence that the universe has that so why would it be so hard for you to believe in God when you already believe in a universe that seems to have godlike characteristics why not take those why not take the logical step and say well if the universe has godlike characteristics Maybe I'm really thinking of God not the universe yeah OK I think that's fine all right well thank you and I guess I just thought I would I would ask is that really yes took me by surprise over the weekend this alternate on chatting with this young guy right ro so. Carl thank you become less you know. All right our next caller is from Rancho Cucamonga event Welcome to the neuropathy thanks so much and I really. Connected your study on The Book of Revelation and enjoying your program and I just mention now that it's really kind to me to really search the Scriptures. And looking at myself I have a question regarding Revelation 1919. Then the angel said to me right back to those who were invited to the wedding separates the lamb and he added These are the words of God so can have a question on. This it means that this is only for the deceiver or all for deceit also include. The believer. That. Doesn't accept Jesus Christ or suppressed. Any thoughts about the bride of the bride. In the experiment and I'm going to rethink again thank you. Thank you very much. I'm not sure the distinction you're making between believers and believers but some people make a distinction between the church and what they call the tribulation St. This would be the dispensational position that the church would be raptured before the tribulation and although people will come to faith in Christ during the tribulation they will never be included in the church the church once it has been Raptured is a closed you know category and then during the tribulation there will be Jews and Gentiles who come to Christ and dispensations refer to those people as tribulation . As opposed to the church. And so some people say that the life of the Lamb in this case are the tribulation certainly not the church and. I'm not really sure how that is justified I personally believe there's only one life for the lamb and we know that Christ is the church is the Bride of Christ I don't think Christ has 2 wives. And therefore I don't believe there will ever be anybody who believes in Christ who is not included in the Church of the church is by definition those who have who are in Christ. And I don't believe that the Bible ever predicts a time when people can come to saints in Christ and not be included in him of course I'm not assuming that's there's a pretty tribulation Rapture is or some sort of book of Revelation frankly no no passage in but in the Bible mentions a preacher relation rapture so I don't have any reason to assume that there will be one but I do have recently is that Jesus said to his disciples I have other sheep you don't know of and I have to go and get them too and when I bring them also there will be one flock and one shepherd Jesus never because there be 2 flock and one shepherd but one flock and one shepherd so Jesus didn't come to divide people into different groups he came to break down the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile and make in himself one new man and to suggest that there would be a group of believers that are part of that means that somehow is going to rear up that middle wall of partition that he broke down and say well I liked this idea of one new man for the past 2000 years but I just decided I'm going to go back to 22 groups now. You know I'm going to divide these groups up again and for eternity. That suggests strange reversal on God's part which are which no Biblical evidence exists. I mean I guess the Bible said God was going to do that I guess we just have to say well I don't know why you want to do that but I guess he's going to. However we're not compelled to take that position at all because there's nothing in the Bible at all that says that there will be a group of believers who aren't part of the church and that God is going to build a new wall of division between the church and some other categories of his people. My understanding is what is referred to as the wife of the Lamb is not a bit different than what is referred to elsewhere as cars in. The church where his bride. Anyway that's that's the answer to your question that I would guess as I said there are some of the district racial camp that would see it differently and they'd say the wife is the tribulation Saints and they will never be part of the church in all eternity they have a separate destiny of the church but I simply can't find any biblical evidence for evolution to the narrowcast My name is Steve Braken we are. Generally Monday through Friday so same time we are listener supported ministry we pay for the time on the radio and that's how we stay on she'd like to help us stay on you to write to the narrow pass. Box 1730 Temecula California 9 to 593 or you can go to our website for narrowcast dot com God bless you are stalking him so. For the kingdom suffered the violence and the violent take it by force Kid A L D C Denver 12 20 am and 95.3 F.M. . Worried about a man whose name isn't one to call to mind. A strong message on Hamilton Island those Isn't everything knowing is family. How are you going to run tests on our. Thanks that Mexico. Cast. What's the bottom low I hear from a lot of listeners who watch the same news channels over and over and over again and they have the same response when they listen the bottom line is who wait a minute the news channel show the same 3 stories over and over and over and over again but when I listen to bottom line the topics are different every day and there's multiple topics on each program and then how do we as Christians look at that issue from a biblical world view the bottom line with Roger Martian Monday through Friday 4 to 6 right here on Gale D.C. 122095 point 3. Can be a Labor Day as you enjoy your day off from work let's hear what Chuck Colson had to say about the dignity of work stay tuned a break point from the Colson center for Christian worldview Here's Eric Metaxas with breakpoint. Do we work to live or live to work I imagine that most of us would say we work to live to pay the bills and support ourselves and our families many of us would admit that we work for the weekend so we can do the things we really like to do like take vacations enjoy our hobbies and spend time with friends and family but I can almost hear Chuck Colson saying hold on a minute work is a gift from God for Chuck Colson work was as much a part of life as breathing from the Marine Corps to his law practice from Capitol Hill to the Nixon White House and especially ministering in the prisons and teaching Christian worldview Chuck was a tireless passionate worker for God and the causes he believed in. So deeply in fact although he was a few decades older than most of us on his staff there were times we simply couldn't keep up this was a man after all who would show up at the office after the weekend and say Thank God it's Monday and long after many men his age had retired check that out he would work till the day he died and for all intents and purposes that's exactly what he did so this Labor Day I thought it would be good to hear from Chuck and his view of work itself here is now from a break point commentary called working class heroes which aired back in 2002 I for 1 am happy to join the celebration of working class heroes especially to the Christians have a special reason to celebrate Labor Day which honors the fundamental dignity of workers for we worship a God who labored to make the world and who created human beings in his image to be workers when God made Adam and Eve He gave them work to do cultivating and caring for the earth in the ancient world the Greeks and Romans look upon manual work as a curse something for lower classes and slaves but Christianity changed to let Christians viewed work as a high calling a calling to be coworkers with God in unfolding the rich potential of His creation this high view of work can be traced throughout the history of the church in the Middle Ages the guild movement grew out of the church it set standards for good workmanship and encourage members to take satisfaction in the results of their labor the guilds became the former and of the modern labor movement leader during the Reformation Martin Luther preached that all work should be done to the glory of God with a minister in the Gospel or scrubbing floors any honest work is pleasing to the Lord and out of this conviction grew the Protestant work ethic Christians were also active on behalf of workers in the early days of the Industrial Revolution when factories were dark satanic mills to borrow a phrase from Sir William Blake work in factories in Calderon's in those days was hard and dangerous children were practically sleaves sometimes even chained to the machines then John Wesley came preaching and teaching the gospel throughout England he came not to the upper classes but to the laboring classes to men whose places were by. Like with coal dust women whose dresses were patched and faded John Wesley preached to them and in the process he pricked the conscience of the whole nation 2 of Wesley just like bulls William Wilberforce and were inspired to work for legislation that would clean up abuses in the workplace at their urging the British Parliament passed child labor laws safety laws and minimum wage laws here in America we've lost the Christian connection with the labor movement but in many countries that tradition still remains but this Labor Day Remember that all labor derives its true dignity as a reflection of the Creator and that whatever we do in word or deed we should do all to the glory of God for breakpoint was in Washington it's always great to hear from Chuck for more on this specific subject and for all kinds of things having to do with faith and culture please come to break point out or that's break point out org breakpoint this is Eric Metaxas. You're listening to calle D.C. Denver a speech will 28 and 95.3 F.M. In streaming online at 1220 K. Vocational in the body of Christ it's not the only calling by any means it's not even the majority calling among Christians but it is an interesting calling and I enjoy being a pastor but one of the odd things about being a pastor is that when people find out you are a pastor who do not know you are one they find out it changes the texture sometimes of conversations that you have Chuck Swindoll tells a true story about running into a member of his congregation in the hospital who was there to visit the same person Chuck was there to visit and and the guy was smoking a cigarette which he when he saw the pastor walk around the corner he just about died but he didn't want to do is so he put the cigarette lit and everything into the coat pocket that he was wearing he stuck it in his pocket and just started talking to him to get him talking you know just keep him there for a while see what would happen and the smoke which is pouring out of the guy's sleeve you know and at the collar and everything you know and that's when they all said as he tells the story he says it's true he said that he told me I look why don't you just smoke a cigarette it's OK You know I'm not going to bite your head off about he says the guy said what cigarette. The texture of things changes I think probably because people. Have odd feelings about the church sometimes I have to converse. Ation with a man not long ago. A a very refreshing conversation it's unusual for me to come across a person 1st of all who doesn't know that I'm a minister and secondly who isn't a Christian and get into an in-depth conversation with him normally because of the nature of the work I am surrounded by believers most the time I'm surrounded by people who know who I am and who if they're talking to me already want to talk about spiritual things they want to talk about the Bible I want to talk about church which is great in the tickler case it was particularly refreshing for me because this fellow he and I were just talking about old times down in California and talking about you know life in general and having a great talk and then in the middle of it he said to me we talked for several minutes and he said By the way what do you do and I thought well there goes the conversation I'm going to tell him I'm a minister and I said I want to minister and he looked at me like why.