Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 20161002

Sanders. And is russia hacking the election . The latest on the Cyber Security threat. From abc news, its this week. Here now, chief anchor george stephanopoulos. Good morning. Is in the october surprise . Breaking news from the New York Times. The banner headline. Trump tax records reveal he could have avoided paying taxes for years. The story has trumps tax records from 1995 and they detail a 916 million loss, a loss he could have used to avoid paying federal taxes on 916 million of income over 18 years. And that puts this exchange from mondays debate in a whole new light. Maybe he doesnt want the American People, all of you watching tonight, to know that hes paid nothing in federal taxes. That makes me smart. I tell you what, if not paying taxes making him smart, what does it make the rest of us . All through this campaign, trump has said a Smart Business man pays as little taxes as possible. He could have paid nothing for years and years. The evidence, the 1995 tax records, show he had millions of dollars in losses from an airline and the plaza hotel. Overnight, the Trump Campaign with this statement. Mr. Trump is a highly skilled businessman who has responsibility to his business, his family and flows to pay no more tax than legally required. Did it not say trump paid federal income taxes and trumps team threatened legal action against the times saying the documents were illegally obtained. Boxments were illegally and trump last night, a brand new assault on Hillary Clinton mocking her recent bout with pneumonia. She cant make it 15 feet to her car. Give me a break. Give me a break. And questioning her marriage. I dont even think shes loyal to bill, you want to know the truth. And really, folks, really, why should she be . Right . Why should she be . All this as a brand new poll shows a clear win by clinton over trump. 53 to 18. And trumps unfavorable rating is up to 64 . Rudy giuliani coming. But right now, we are joined by two reporters on the New York Times stories. Suzanne craig and david barstow. Tell us how it began. Ten days ago you got a letter . Yeah, it was a week ago last friday. Roughly ten days ago. It was friday afternoon. I was on a deadline for another story and i swung by my mailbox. I usually do every day and there was an envelope there from somebody from the Trump Organization and i opened it and there was several pages of Donald Trumps tax returns in it. The return address was trump tower. Do you have any other evidence it was from trump tower . That is what the return address said and we started to unravel who it might have been and who could confirm it. David, that is when you went down to florida and actually found trumps accountant from the time . Yeah, obviously a big concern for us, can we validate the documents . Its a small circle of people do that. One of those is jack mitnic who served as trumps primary tax accountant for many decades. So i presented what had been sent to us and asked him to take a look. And he looked at them and said, yes, this looks legit for a variety of reasons. Lets talk about what they show and they dont show. You cant say for sure whether or not he paid income taxes for the last 18 years but you do know its a fact that he could write off over 916 million in income . That is exactly correct. One of the experts said if one of his clients came to him with the tax return, what he would say to them is congratulations. You can earn up to 916 million and not pay a nickel in taxes. All legally. All legally under the loopholes. We are hearing from trumps lawyer this morning, they are threatening legal action. Answer you guys and the New York Times. What are your lawyers saying about that . Last time i checked, it was about crime to check your mailbox. They are saying its ridiculous. So it would be a crime for someone inside one of the Tax Departments to leak the documents but its not illegal to publish them. That is what our lawyers are saying. Finally, any more documents coming . We hope. Were at the New York Times and we check our mail back. 620 8th avenue. Thank you. We are joined by Rudy Giuliani. Thanks for coming in. Good morning. What is your response to the story . My response is, hes a genius. A genius . Absolutely genius. The man in the art of the deal, this is described. First of all, we are talking about 26 years ago perfectly legal. Perfectly legal. We should get that straight. Its a perfectly legal application of the tax code and he could have been a fool not to take advantage of it. Be he probably would have breached his duty to his investors, to his business. You have an obligation when you run a business to maximize the profits, and if there is a tax law that says i can deduct this, you deduct it. If you fail to deduct it, your investors can sue you. You say hes a genius. One says it reveals Donald Trumps past business failures. He failed to pax taxes while tens of millions of families paid theirs. Well, thats not clear it was 1. 8 billion . 916 million. Last year for example he made 625 million. If he had one year in which he made 1 billion, he would have wiped it out in one year. So its unlikely that it carried forward for 18 years. That is the amount of income he was making. Second, every great man has had failures and the art of the deal, he explains it. Chirnlg Hill Churchill was thrown out of office twice. Steve jobs was fired from apple and had nothing. The reality, this man, 26 years ago, had some failures and then he built an empire. I would like that working for me for the United States. This a genius at how to take advantage of legal remedies that can help your Company Survive and grow. I want a man who is genius to take this country, where its moving in the wrong direction where we have had a jobless recovery, where weve had growth of less than 2 in two years thats pathetic. Dont you think a man with an economic genius for the United States . Than a woman the only thing she has produced, a lot of work for the fbi checking out her emails. And mr. Trump in the past has criticized people for not paying taxes. He has this tweet from 2012. Half of americans dont pay income tax because of the crippling Government Debt and in the campaign he has taken on Hedge Fund Managers who have avoided taxes. Lets listen. The Hedge Fund Guys get away with murder. They make a fortune. They pay no tax. Its ridiculous. Okay . I know people who are making a tremendous amount of money and paying virtually no tax and i dont think its fair. So why is this fair . Whether its fair or not, if i run a company, and i do, and there are five deductions available to me and i dont take them, the people invested in the company can sue me for not doing that. And number two, my obligation in that circumstance is to make the maximum amount of money and to save the company from the damage. He was a genius do that. He went down and came back up. America needs a turn around right now and donald trump is a turn around artist. Everybody believes that we are moving in the wrong dex. Nobody believes that Hillary Clinton can turn america around. Its going to be obama 2 or obama 3. Whatever you want to call it. Higher taxes, less job, 1 growth. We put our head down. Were just another country, oh, gee, gee. This man is man who knows what it feels like to fail and then how to come back from it. The statement from the Trump Campaign doesnt say he paid federal income taxes in 18 years. Did he . Im not his lawyer. I havent seen his tax returns. I would suspect that he did because that kind of loss that youre looking at, given the income he has had, says he probably paid off the Carry Forward very, very quickly. Look, i have clients with Carry Forward that is twice that, three times that. That is part of what you do in business. And if you didnt do it, you would be sued. Does it increase the pressure on trump to release the taxes . No president ial candidate in a generation has not released you know what it does do . It actually suggests why he doesnt. Because nobody understands the tax code. They use it as if there is something wrong here. This is perfectly legal and he is in a box. If you dont do it, you get sued. And suggesting that he didnt want people to know that he didnt pay federal taxes. If you give me your money and i start a business and there are five deductions available to me and i say im not going to take advantage of two of them because it may make me look bad when im running for president or something else, then youre going to sue me. For not taking advantage of that deduction. And that is what happened here. And it shows what a genius he is, how smart he is, how intelligent he is. How strategic he is. I want that working for me. I want to see if he is produce the results for us. He is not going to produce the returns . He is going to produce the returns when the audit is finished so that everything is clarified and people cannot misinterpret what he did. The returns from 2002 to 2008 are not under audit. This man is audited every year. Never once has had a criminal charge brought against him. Never once accused of violating the law. He operates he understands the law. He operates within it and he understands on the other side how he can get sued. If he didnt take advantage of the benefits. I would rather have a person who understands the economy and as a turn around artist than a person who is a failure basically as secretary of state. Lets move on to last night. We showed in the piece earlier, mr. Trump mocking Hillary Clinton with the bout with pneumonia and questioning whether she was loyal in her marriage to bill clinton. Is that a smart strategy . I dont see last night. The reality is, she at the end of the debate, and saturday night live said it beautifully, and she said, by the way and she mentioned the model and made it appear as lester holt brought it up. She was programmed to bring it up. Trump took the debate, didnt he . She brings up this woman. This woman goes back 20 years or so. She has a very unfortunate past. She was a driver in a bank robbery. She never mind all about her. But the reality is that that was something that she brought up. She brought that into this. She brought personal life into this. He brought it up every day since then. Im asking was that smart . I cant tell you whether or not that is smart. She is the one who introduced it. We will tell by who wins the election whether or not it was smart. I dont think i would have stood by for a personal attack. You want to bring personality into it, hillary, and your husband has a history that he has and you have a history of attacking the women the only women victim she doesnt believe are the ones who say they have been victimized by her husband. We have 20, 30, 50 . When this has come up in campaigns in the past, you go back to 1998, during the impeachment, the House Republicans they lose seats. Your own advisers looked to bring it up in the senate race and said it would be a bad idea. I think its a bad idea to focus on president clintons personal life. That is his personal life. Its not a bad idea to point out her hypocrisy. Her hypocrisy if she is attacking donald trump, well, we have to respond how she deals with women. She has to take money from governments that kill women, take money from governments that stone women. Take money from governments that have women who cant drive cars. Not just money. Millions and tens of millions of dollars from countries in which women are treated like property and killed when they get raped. And so now, basically its dont lecture me, hillary, on feminism because youre a phony. You suggested earlier this week that donald trump might not shouldnt go to the debate. Did i really . Well, is it fair . Of course, there is no question he is going to the second debate. If i said something to suggest the opposite that is not what i intended. I wanted to point out that i think the first debate was extremely unfair. The only time lester holt interrupted to correct people is when he corrected donald trump. He was wrong about stop and frisk and everyone acknowledges he was wrong about it. And stop and frisk, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, is constitutional. That is not way its done in new york at the time. That happens all the time. If a person does a Home Invasion a search of your home and doesnt follow the constitution that is unconstitutional. But does it make it unconstitutional . It makes it unconstitutional as applied. Hillary clinton knows that, and she fudged it. Lester holt didnt know it. And she shouldnt have pretended to know about it. She misrepresented about ttp. She said it was a goal standard. She said she never suggested she made a very definitive statement. He never corrected her. Why . Mr. Trump will be there next sunday. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. And we are joined by a big supporter of Hillary Clinton, her former opponent, bernie sanders. Senator sanders, thanks for coming in this morning. I want to start with the big New York Times story on donald trump and his taxes. We just heard Rudy Giuliani say that it shows that donald trump is a genius. Your response . If everybody in the country was a genius, we would not pay taxes. We would not have a country. I think its outrageous and i think it speaks to one of the issues that Hillary Clinton talked about, i have talked about. We have massive wealth in the country today. Rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and billionaires are able to manipulate the tax system so they avoid paying federal income tax. In addition to that, you have massive tax avoidance by corporation, hundreds of millions of dollars. If mr. Giuliani thinks that mr. Trump is smart and all the rest of us are dummies because we believe in america, we believe in our kids, we believe in national defense, i think they have a distorted view of the American People. You can see what mr. Trump did, according to the story, is legal, correct . Right. Well, i dont know. Assuming that it is legal, what it tells you, you have a corrupt tax system which says to ordinary people, youre supposed to pay your taxes. But if youre a billionaire there are all kinds of loopholes you can utilize that may enable you, if you are a billionaire, not pay anything in taxes. Warren buffett reminds us over and over again, and he pays taxes that his effective tax rate is lower than his secretarys. That is absurd. And trump wants to make a bad situation worse by appealing the estate tax which only applies to the top 1 of 1 . And secretary clinton and i believe the wealthiest people in the country should pay their fair share. Hillary clinton made it a closed door fundraiser back in february. I want to play them and get your response. Here you go. She is talking about your supporters. Theyre children of the great recession. They are living in their parents basement, if you feel you are consigned to being a barista or some other job that doesnt pay a lot or doesnt have a ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe you can be a part of the Political Revolution is pretty appealing. Here is what donald trump treat about that. Crooked h. Is nasty to sanders supporters behind closed doors. Hrc is not with you. Making a direct hit on your supporters. How did you take it . I took it exactly the opposite way. I think what she said and by the way, during the campaign, we do have our differences. Secretary clinton and i do disagree on issues. But what she is saying there is absolutely correct. That is, you have millions of young people who took out loans to go to college and hoping to get decent jobs and they are unable to do that. And yes, they want a Political Revolution, they want to transform society and make sure when they get out of school, they can get a job that pays them wages and salaries with the education they have. I think that is a very important point and that is an issue as a nation we have got to address. How do we create goodpaying jobs for people who have a decent education . And one of the issues that clinton is talking about is rebuilding our infrastructure. Pay equity for women. Raising the minimum wage to a living wage so we can have decent jobs for all the people. A lot at supporters are Still Holding back from Hillary Clinton. What do you say to them . This is what i say, george. Look, we live in a tough world. This country faces enormous crises as we do. And i would like people simply im not going to tell people how to vote. Take a look at issue by issue. For example, Climate Change. A lot of young people are appropriately very concerned about Climate Change and what happens to our planet if we do not transform our energy system. Compare what donald trump says to what Hillary Clinton says. Donald trump is ignoring science. Trump thinks that Climate Change is a hoax. Clinton has a serious plan in order to transform the energy system. Raising the minimum wage. Most americans know that a 7. 25 wage is a starvation wage. It has to be raised to a living wage. I just spoke to mrs. Clinton days ago. In the first 100 days of her administration, if shes elected, she intends to lay out a plan on Climate Change, lay out a plan on how to overturn the Citizens United Supreme Court decision that allows billionaires to buy elections. She wants to bring forth pay equity for women. So if you think look at clinton versus trump issue of issue a lot of your supporters are not looking at clinton versus trump, they are looking at clinton versus gary johnson, and jill stein, maybe thinking about staying home. Do you agree with president obama and the first lady who said a vote for anyone else is a vote for donald trump . Well, this is what i think. I think its that the evidence is overwhelming. That is the next president of the United States is going to be Hillary Clinton or donald trump. And if youre voting for somebody else and not supporting Hillary Clinton because she does not live up to all of your specifications or all of your ideas, i think it is a vote for trump. And take a look at Gary Johnsons record on the economy. On the environment. It is a very conservative approach. Something that i think most of my supporters do not support. Senator sanders, thanks for joining us this morning. Thank you, george. The power house round table is standing by with their take on debate teak and we will take a deep dive to what Vladimir Putin is up to. This election season, is he Backing Trump . We have an expert panel with garry kasparov, a famed russian dissident. Dissident. Before it became a medicine, it was an idea. An inspiration. A wild whatif. So scientists went to work. They examined 87 different protein structures. Had 12 years of setbacks and breakthroughs, 4,423 sleepless nights, and countless trips back to the drawing board. At first they were told no, well. 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Thats a bunch of malarky. Why is that so . Because not a single thing he said is accurate. Vp debates produce memorable moments. This year, maybe more than ever. With the partners at ssrs, we found that more than 40 of the country isnt sure who the running mates are. On the 46 say they are going to watch tuesday and 10 say it could have a major impact on the vote, far less than the president ial debate. This is a year of surprises next with the power house round table. Igned here, made here, shipped from here, on this plane flown by this pilot, who owns stock in this company, that builds big things and provides benefits to this woman, with new cabinets. They all have insurance crafted personally for them. Not just coverage, craftsmanship. Not just insured. Chubb insured. Ill take it from here. Im good. I just took new mucinex clear and cool. Ah whats this sudden cooooling thing happening . Its got a menthol burst. You can feel it right away. Wow, that sort of blindsided me. And it clears my terrible cold symptoms. Ahh this is awkward. New Mucinex Fastmax clear cool. Feel the menthol burst. And clear your worst cold symptoms. Start the relief. Ditch the misery. Lets end this. With toothpaste or plain water. An their dentures and even though their dentures look clean, in reality theyre not. If a denture were to be put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture, and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. Thats why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. Polidents unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria. For a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. I mean, this man is clearly unfit to be commander in chief. Wrong. He is a bully. Shut up. He started the birther movement. You did. He says Climate Change is a hoax invented by china. Its pronounced jina. He hasnt released his tax returns which means he is not that rich. Wrong. Not that charitable. Wrong. Or has never paid taxes in his life. Wronger. Saturday night live debate. We are joined by the round table, jon karl and cokie roberts, John Heilemann from bloomberg politics, Roland Martin from news one now and republican strategicist sara fagen from cnbc. We heard Rudy Giuliani say that donald trump is a genius. How damaging is this story . I think its very damaging. The clinton team will go at this relentlessly. They will go at the inherent unfairness of someone that wealthy and not paying taxes. But they will go after him to go as a business failure. 900 million loss. They will try to bait him and ridicule him and make that a point as well. Were already hearing anecdotal evidence and focus groups and rallies that people are unset that me might not have paid taxes. When it came up at the debate. And most of us, it goes out of the paycheck every week so we are used to everybody paying taxes. The idea he didnt is upsetting to people. And you see Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie saying he is a Good Business person. Is that just making the best of a bad situation . Could that possibly work . There is no doubt that donald trump has paid millions and millions of dollars in taxes. And the easy answer is to put of the tax returns. And all the other taxes he has paid. I think voters are sophisticated to know that he is a businessman and Business People use the tax code to their advantage. The biggest problem is what jon said. Which is that perhaps it sheds a light to Business Practices that have by some reports really hurt people, and particularly in new jersey. That is a bigger challenge for the Trump Campaign. Christie and giuliani are out of their minds. This does not play well with regular voters to say, yeah, he last nearly a billion dollars. There were investors in the business. Were they Pension Funds . Teachers, firefighters, police officers, did they lose money investing in donald trump . They are crazy to say its great. No, its a problem and to say genius, its not smart. A pretty glaring admission from the Trump Campaign, they didnt say that he paid federal income taxes. And the only thing we have on record are 1978 and 79. Didnt pay income taxes in 1994 and probably didnt same thing for 1991 and 1993. And Rudy Giuliani saying he has been audited every single year. We dont have proof of that. We dont have proof to say that he is under audit right now. This is is a time management thing. There are 43 news cycles that we will see. We are going to see now between today and the next president ial debate on sunday seven news cycles that are going to be consumed by trump on defense on the question and offense on the question. And that is a terrible problem if youre behind in the election, and donald trump is. It comes on the heels of the debate. The polls show that donald trump lost the debate and this Alicia Machado story, every single day up to the early tweets on friday. And they are taken with the late night tweets on Alicia Machado. And one of them said, look, Hillary Clinton knows haw to crack the code, how to bait him, get him involved in the detours. None of them think this is a good idea. And does donald trump realize how bad the debate performance was. And none of them think its a good idea for him to go after his marriage either. Which is the other thing hes doing. The other thing that is going to come up in the news cycles, jon. Because that is where he is doubling down. And you know, for him to say shes not loyal, this is a man who has been married three times, was in a huge scandal when he left his first wife, or hadnt quite left her. So it is a crazy thing to do. Can anyone at this point, he is now in his third regime of campaign manager, can anyone control donald trump . Its very clear nobody can control donald trump. I think Kelly Ann Connolly has done a great job managing in the short time she had been there. And donald trump was the closest he had ever been in the election to getting closer to victory. I dont think he was ahead. But he was starting to inch up. 43, 44 of the vote. He had huge momentum and this last week has been problematic to him. This is a guy that was completely unhinged. And in the debate monday, she questioned his temperament. He said i have a great temperament. He has proven in the last five days that he doesnt and you cannot put this kind of unstable individuals in the oval office makes decisions for the voter. He has proven them right every tweet. We have seen a remarkable display from inside the trump camp. We have seen people going on and suggesting he didnt go to his prep, he didnt execute his plan. He quote unquote lost his nerve. Yeah, one things we know about campaigns in crisis is that they leak. And when the leaking starts, its a sign of chaos and that is what the situation is in trump tower at this point. No one is really in control. Its not just that they cant control him. He obviously cant control himself. He has had bad weeks and almost all of them have revolved around times he has decided to go after a public citizen. The judge, the family. And now to go after this woman, a latina woman in a time i agree with sara. The day before the debate was when he was closest to winning the election. But with the voters he needs to move, to win on the narrow path, he did incalculable damage in the course of the week because of the level of intensity of interest in this week, the focus on him, the size of the audience and the fact he made it worst for himself, every day after the debate. Were still talking about it today. On sunday. No one is going to remember Alicia Machado by the end of this week where. I agree. Where does it go next . Clearly someone has an interest in putting out his tax returns. These things dont happen by accident. We are likely to see more of the documents released and the only solution for donald trump is to release all of his taxes. If in fact he didnt pay income taxes, you calculate all the other taxes you have paid, real estate, state taxes and property taxes. And he has a very big tax bill. There is an answer to this for him. That is the only solution. It certainly appears to me he made the calculation a long, long time ago, if he went back and looked at his tax returns in the last 18 or 20 years, you would see very little shown in income. Who knows about income or charitable donations. I dont he can release them. He cant. His sons have already given us the answer. There is a lot of stuff in there. And this is the guy who is saying im appealing to you, White Working Class voter in ohio, pennsylvania and wisconsin. Hes going to be proven, if he releases the tax records, that hes been a fraud, he has been lying, and he will say, wait a minute. You are a rich guy like the rest of us. He is going to keep finding White Working Class voters who have been stiffed by him. And thats the other thing that can really hurt him. They should hit that harder. To go back to cokies earlier point. He seems intent on talking about bill clintons intent. What happen he does need to win the election . A lot of white suburban, College Educated women. He did no good last week with the machado situation. And this is an issue that the Clinton Campaign is begging him to raise. There is no pool of the voters, the voters he needs to whom that is going to seem appealing. Does it seem in the second debate it does bring up all of his stuff. Remember, hes even said when he was leaving ivana people sided with her. And he was unable to do some things because america sided with him. It does appear right now that donald trump is doing the work for Hillary Clinton she cannot do for herself. She has had real enthusiasm problem with College Educated women. And you look at the last week. Yeah, and the challenge for Hillary Clinton is putting forward a positive vision that will resonate. This will work wonderfully. She has had the debate. She is able to debate him. I think she will continue to bait him on the issue of not just paying taxes but the fact he lost so much money. What does it mean . But the problem is, she needs to put something out that is going to resonate and she hasnt done that yet. And the polls cant major intensity. And that is the gallup polls show that 76 of republicans say they will likely vote. 47 18 to 34. What she has to do is she has to deal with the gap. She is going to charlotte, meeting with young black men today. There was a ninepoint gap between black men and black women. But she still has to deal with the millennial issue. All the polls are great but we cannot measure what will be the turnout on election day. Will white voters exceed the last election . And she better get real about the intensity gap. And rolands right. Intensity has been on Donald Trumps side most of the election. You look at the republican turn out, which does mean something there is intensity, at least there was on his side. I want to look ahead to the next debate, john heilmann. Its difficult to pull it off when you get the questions from real voters. You have real voters asking questions, the freedom to move away outside the podium and to be in a physical spate with your opponent. There is more debate prep that goes around the town hall debate and the podium debate and the trump camp did no prep for the first debate. I dont think theyre equipped to do the debate prep that any other president ial candidate can do. And the thinks he won the first debate. What happens if a size 12 or 14 woman seriously, what if a size 12 or 14 woman stands up and says, i have two daughters. Look at me, do you think im beautiful, do you think im fat . If that question comes, donald trump is going to stand there with a deer in headlights look. And hillary is going to sit over there smiling what are you saying, roland . In this format, you have to answer that question. You have to answer to all that you have said in the past. Thats going to be a problem for him. You cant dis the questioners on this one. No, you cannot. Thank you all very much. When we come back, the expert panel on how and why russia is meddling in the elections and what can be done about it. That was invigorating youre probably wondering why ive just carved a giant wooden tiger. Well, the answer is that a real one would maul me. Ive crafted dr. Whiskers here as a visual aid to show you that should you visit the lot, carmax associates will not pounce like tigers because people dont like that. Come here to buy a car. Dr. Whiskers wont pounce. Nobody will. Get between you and lifes dobeautiful moments. Llergens flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. Most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. Flonase controls 6. 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Because safety is never being satisfied. And always working to be better. Obviously, interference in the u. S. Election process is a very, very serious matter. We are doing an awful lot of work with counterintelligence investigators to understand what mischief russia is up to. Interference in the election. Could they be hacking in the system . We begin with chief justice correspondent pierre thomas. What exactly do u. S. Officials know right now about the involvement . Homeland security expert joe jonson has a statement that confirms that hackers have been scanning a large number of state systems and they have gained access to state voting systems. We first reported that Voter Registration data bases have been targeted in 20 states. They like lie copied information but they were not able to manipulate or change voter roles. But the primary suspects, hackers tied to the highest levels of russian government. Why would the russian government be doing it . We have two answers. One is just another form of identity theft. But the deeper concern is that the russians want the americans to feel uneasy about the outcome of the election. And while officials are less concerned that individual Voting Machines can be hacked because they are not connected to the internet, they fear its deeply concerning. Imagine if in a battleground state, there is a question about thousands of citizens. And they are pretty sure that russia is behind it but they s with refuse to say so publicly and formally. And its seen as helping the hillary campaign. But also there is concern, if you call them out publicly, what is your next move . How far do you escalate . Lets talk about it with expert richard clarke, representative adam schiff, house intill intelligence committee. Julia ioffe and Gary Kasparov. Former chess champ, the author of winter is coming. Dick, let me begin with you and pick up where pierre left off. Officials believe that russia is behind it and they cant say because they are afraid . They are afraid to kick off a cyber war where the u. S. Is forced by public opinion, congressional opinion to retaliate. If we retaliate against russia, with an attack, we could get into a spiral that would be a cyber war. And the United States is so vulnerable to cyber attack, the white house doesnt want to start that. You and your colleagues have gotten briefings on the aggression action . Absolutely. I think its very important to establish a deterrent. We have seen the hacking of the Voter Registration data bases and they have no foreign intelligence value. They are valuable if you are prepared to the cyber battlefield to make mischief in the elections. And i think the russians respect one thing. That is strength. If they see an open door that is an invitation to do more. I think we should begin naming and shaming them and work with allies around the world who have been hacked by the russians. You are shaking your head and saying that Vladimir Putin is waging a shadow year . Absolutely. And working for trump, i can tell you from my russian and english books and twitter, there are real hackers and there are so many soft targets. And in the report, you dont have to attack on the state level. You just go to the battleground states and municipalities. The hundreds of opportunities to create another concentration across the country and all putin has to do is create doubts about the validity of the election and give trump a chance. You say trying to help trump. Is it helping trump or hurting hillary . I have heard it both ways . I think its both and its under mining faith in the western institutions and the democratic institutions, about the stability of western democracy at large. What we saw in 2014 when we saw a kind of use of asymmetrical warfare used in ukraine, we have seen him take it domestic situations international. You dont have to do that much because its a leveraging effect. You dont have to do all that much to project a lot of power for americans to start thinking, he has the power to swing whole elections. He is a powerful man. That gets to an important point. The actual individual voting systems are too diffused to change the outcome of an election but all you have do is create doubts about the legitimacy of the outcome. Not only that. Effect the voting itself with phony emails. They have already hacked and dumped real emails, and established they have real emails. The second dump, i expect in the next couple weeks, may have salted into thousands of real emails, forged or altered emails. How can you then prove they are forged . Registration data bases. Someone wipes out 100,000 voters in ohio or florida, and that is enough just to create chaos across the country. Or people to say we saw what happened in florida or arizona, what else do we not know about . Have we just not uncovered the other meddling . Its about a rilt bit to project a lot of power. And you saw Vladimir Putin say that all the rumors were circulating about the advisers and hacking, he said publicly, i hope this is a reflection of russias power on the world stage. Naming and shaming is one option. Ma more can be done to protect the systems in the days and the weeks . I say that secretary johnson to find out what the best met d methods of protecting themselves. But just to under score what dick said, they will not be able to change the outcome. They will meddle with the Voter Registration data bases. What worries me and keeps me up at night is what they is done in europe, the manipulation of data. If they have doctored the documents, it would be very hard to disprove the content of the fake emails. They have used that approach before and they can be electionaltering. Why would Vladimir Putin want trump to be in the oval office . He wants trump to be the president of the United States. Putin has been sliding in status after the report of the boeing shot by russian missile. Car crimes in syria. Putin needs not a friend but someone who acts as an agent of chaos and trump, from what he sas v has said, and under mining their legetdcy and just signing a lot of doubt. Again, these are the methods we have seen petin use for over a decade. Strolling conspiracy theories. By the way, russian television, kremlin owned, has been very clear from early in the primaries who they want to win. They have been very sympathetic to trump. Very, very critical of hillary. And what trump is doing is very, very good to russia. And saying in the debates, saying it could be russia, could be china. Could be a 400 pound man. You have no doubt this is russia. I have no doubt. Its not a question of evidence. Its a question of the administration, do they do more than name and shame . What are they playing into the russian hands sowing doubt . But the fact is the americans already see the meddling and it would be far worse if there is a problem with the election and after the election does American People question, they are doing it and we knew it all along. What would you be recommending . I recommend that we try to work with the the states. There are a couple states that dont have paper ballots. They have machines where you push a button and thats it. There is no paper record. We need something with a backup. If the election does get messed up in a way, so afterwards, we can count paper votes. Okay, thank you. Well be right back. And now, we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice. In the month of september, two Service Members died overseas supporting operations in iraq and syria. Well be right back. And we will be here for all the action tuesday night. Im going to anchor our live coverage of the Vice President ial debate with the political team. That starts at 9 00 eastern. And next sunday, sunday night, the next trump clinton debate this one comoderated by martha raddatz. That is also at 9 00 eastern. That is all for us right now. Thanks for sharing your sunday with us. I will see you tomorrow on gma. Up next. A. And more support four Colin Kaepernicks protest. Why one organization is speaking up for todays game. You can see partly cloudy skies in fran. Looks beautiful. 56 degrees. We have a cold front. Not one, but two on the way. Spreading some showers for the rest of your sunday afternoon. I will tell you how much, where to expect that and talk about a warmup for the extended outlook. Thats just a few moments away