Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 20150308

We have new developments on all this weeks big stories. President obama has spoken out for the first time on those Hillary Clinton emails saying he first heard about them on the news. In madison, wisconsin, there are protests after the shooting of an africanamerican teenager by a white Police Officer. The teen was unarmed, but Court Records show he was party to an Armed Robbery last year and police say he attacked the officer. An independent investigation will examine the evidence. All this in a week where the Justice Department revealed a pattern of racist practices in ferguson, missouri, against the backdrop of that extraordinary ceremony saturday. President obama leading 40,000 people in selma, alabama, 50 years after that bloody confrontation on the Edmund Pettus bridge. We gather here to honor the courage of ordinary americans willing to endure billy clubs, and the chasing rod, tear gas and the trampling hoof, men and women who despite the gush of blood and splintered bone would stay true to their north star and keep marching towards justice. What they did here will reverberate through the ages not because the change they want was preordained, not because their victory was complete, but because they proved that nonviolent change is possible, that love and hope can conquer hate. The president took on critics who say that ferguson proves america has not made progress on race. What happened in ferguson may not be unique, but its no longer endemic. Its no longer sanctioned by law or by custom, and before the Civil Rights Movement it most surely was. Of course, the more common mistake is to suggest that ferguson is an isolated incident, that racism is banished. We dont need a ferguson report to know thats not true. We just need to open our eyes and our ears and our hearts to know that this nations racial history still casts its long shadow upon us. Evidence of that long shadow, the Justice Department report on ferguson. The mayor of ferguson is standing by for an exclusive interview after this report from abcs pierre thomas. All hands up, dont shoot. Hands up, dont shoot. Reporter in a city that sparked a conversation on race, some Big Questions this morning. Among them, will the entire Ferguson Police department be dismantled . If thats whats necessary were prepared to do that. Reporter the attorney generals blunt response came on the heels of a blistering just Department Report which found a pattern of racial bias in ferguson policing. Africanamericans make up 67 of fergusons population but were 93 of all arrests and were the targets of 85 of traffic stops. Weve been getting harassed so much that were tired of it. Reporter the report also detailing racist emails sent by city employees, one describing the president of the United States as a chimpanzee. By friday, three city officials involved were gone, a City Court Clerk fired and two Police Officers resigned. In the Fatal Shooting of a young black man by a white Police Officer, this week eric holder decided to the to prosecute officer Darren Wilson saying there was not evidence he had violated Michael Browns civil rights, but he added that the investigation had affirmed some of the concerns of minorities. Some of those protesters were right. Reporter the president took harsh note, as well. There was an oppressive and abusive situation. Reporter mr. Obama said while he believes the overwhelming majority of police are great Public Servants, he said there are still pockets of discriminatory policing. And what happened in ferguson is not a complete aberration. Its not just a onetime thing. Its something that happens. Reporter in the last five years, the Justice Department has opened more than 20 investigations into Police Departments with prosecutors enforcing 15 agreements, often to correct unconstitutional policing practices. The quest for a more Perfect Union clearly not over. For this week, pierre thomas, abc news, washington. And we are joined now by the mayor of ferguson, james knowles. Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us this morning. You know that report so horrifying to so many. Shocking in so many ways, and it leads to the question, how could you not know these kinds of practices were going on . I think its important to recognize that the mayor and the city council and the city of ferguson are parttime Public Servants who oversee, you know, we hire a professional staff to oversee and administrate on a daily basis what goes on in the city of ferguson and some of these things, emails, absolutely we will not tolerate in this community. They showed some bias that is intolerable and those are things we acted on immediately but those are things that as the mayor, as the city council we dont monitor on a daily basis everyones emails, and some of these practices, i think, that have come to light and some of these stories are new to many of us, especially at least the length in which the doj states that it occurred. So now that you know about them, the question is what to do. Attorney general holder said it might be necessary to dismantle the police department. Are you prepared to do that and to fire the police chief . I think whats important right now is that we go through every part of that report, find out where the breakdown was and the patterns and practices and these safeguards that we should have had in place and need to have in place to ensure that we protect the safety and the civil rights of everyone that comes to ferguson and lives in the city of ferguson. You know, very few communities in this country have undergone this level of scrutiny, and the city of ferguson has after thousands of emails have been examined, court documents, arrest records, we know what the issues are and according to the Justice Department with the city of ferguson. Were one of the few were the only one in the st. Louis area whos undergone that scrutiny and know how to commit those issues and committed to moving forward to make that happen. What exactly will you do . Will the police chief keep his job . Will you implement the kind of recommendations the department of justice called for, increasing officer training, more partnership with the ferguson community, prohibiting ticketing and arrest quotas . Many so of those things absolutely we will i think we can say immediately well be working on improving training, improving some of the outreach to members of our community, to sections of our community, especially who feel underrepresented who have been underrepresented. One of the things that were focused on, which will be the only one and the first one in the st. Louis region, is to implement a civilian review board so civilians can have input into the policies and procedures of the city of Ferguson Police department but also review and take in complaints against the city of Ferguson Police department so that elected officials like myself can hear these complaints, can see them come through and monitor this and the civilians will have an active role in that. But mayor, can uyou do this with the people in place . You talked about the power of the city manager, john shaw. The report also shows he was pushing police to bring in more revenue and ignored reports that the criminal Justice System needed to be fixed. Dont you need wholesale change . I think what weve been saying is weve been committed to reform and making those changes. I can tell you that as we move forward, were going to go through every line of that report. We have been going through and identifying where the breakdown was. You know, everybody in that report that may be implicated, anybody whos been participating in any sort of discriminatory policing that we can identify in the report we want to hold accountable. Thats going to take more than a couple days, but we are absolutely committed to that and thats what were doing in the city of ferguson. Final question, the brown family said theyre going to sue as well. Theyre likely to sue. Will you reach a settlement with the brown family or will you fight it . You know, thats something thats being handled by our insurance company, so i couldnt really comment on that. Okay, mr. Mayor. Thanks so much for your time this morning. We turn to the former secretary of state colin powell. He joins us now from washington. General powell, thank you so much for joining us this morning. What an extraordinary week for Race Relations in this country. We saw that report on ferguson, of course, we saw that event in selma yesterday. Your reflections. The event in selma touched me very much because, you know, 50 years ago, i was stationed at ft. Benning, georgia, and i was also going back and forth to birmingham, alabama, during a very, very difficult time, and what that bloody sunday event did for the nation was to hold up a mirror in front of all americans and said, look, this is whats going on in this country. This cannot continue. As Lyndon Johnson said at one point, you mean to tell me soldiers are coming back from vietnam and do not have the right to vote . This is wrong and has to be changed. And so i think that bloody sunday catalyzed the movement to do something about our Voting Rights, and later that year, we got the Voting Rights act of 1965, and i think selma gave Lyndon Johnson and the congress the power, the moral power to seek that legislation and to get it passed. Whats your take on, you know, one of the most passionate parts of the president s speech yesterday where he did take on those critics who said were not making progress on race. The president outlined the great progress weve made but also laying out what more needs to be done. Well, you know, were always searching for that more Perfect Union that our Founding Fathers talked to us about. Weve made enormous progress. If we hadnt made progress, he wouldnt have been standing there. Eric holder wouldnt have been with him and i wouldnt be here now. Things opened up. Law was changed and the barriers to advancement went away, but we still now have hurdles we have to get over. Im troubled by a number of things with respect to some of the states trying to restrict voting by voter i. D. Laws. Those are hurdles we can get over and what i say to my friends in the Africanamerican Community is whatever those states do, you meet the standards then you make sure you register and make sure you vote, you make sure you vote for the people who try to put these barriers, these hurdles in your way and then you vote them out but ultimately its going to be the people who change this system and not just politicians or who the next president is. We, the people, have the responsibility to make sure that all the people have an opportunity for a full and successful life in this wonderful country of ours. How shocked were you by that report on ferguson . I was shocked, but not that surprised, frankly, george. I know these things have existed in other parts of our country. This shouldnt have been that great a surprise to any of us. But its not throughout the country. What we have to do now then is for all of the Police Departments, all of the mayors and county and other officials throughout the country, take a look in the mirror and see what youre doing. Are you really arresting people just so you can get the money needed to run the government . Thats not right. And are you doing it in a discriminatory manner so that africanamericans, hispanicamericans and folks in the lower income levels of the society are paying the price in order to sustain your government or the police force. We also have to teach every police force that you have a responsibility to make sure that you are operating in a proper manner. Try to use nonlethal means wherever possible. We also have to tell our young people, when youre stopped by a Police Officer, stop and listen carefully and do not argue or fight. Let it resolve itself, especially if youve done nothing. If you have done something, arguing or fighting with the Police Officer will just add another charge. And i think thats the way we have to make sure that our youngsters understand the situation that theyre placing themselves in. How about your own partys experience with race . You are still a republican, right . I know you voted for president obama. A couple of years back you spoke out about the dark vein of intolerance in some parts of the Republican Party on race. Is that what you still see . I still see it. I still see it in the Republican Party, and i still see it in other parts of our country. You dont have to be republican to be touched by this dark vein. America is still going through this transformation from where we were just 50 or 60 years ago. You have to remember it was only about 60 or 70 years ago that we still had poll taxes, that we still had literacy tests in order to vote. That the voting places were only open two days a month for africanamericans. So weve come a long way, but theres a long way to go, and we have to change the hearts and minds of americans, and i see progress, especially in the younger generation. When i speak to young kids, when i look at my own young grandchildren, theyre not of that past. Theyre of the present. Theyre of the future. They understand the importance of diversity, they understand the beauty of this wonderful country of ours with all the different shades of people we have in this country, so we have to deal with this. We have to deal with making sure that everybody can vote and express their opinion. Police forces are acting in a proper manner, citizens are acting in a proper manner with respect to the Police Forces and that governments, cities and states throughout the country are making sure that they are not discriminating against any particular part of their citizenry. Whats your take on the gop field . You worked for both president bushes. Could you see yourself supporting jeb this time around . I always vote for the person i think is most qualified to be president of the United States of america. I know jeb bush very, very well. I think hes a very accomplished individual. And well see who else is going to be running, and ill make my judgment based on what i think is best for the country. Okay, so well cut back to you on that later on. But i do want to ask you one final question on this Hillary Clinton email controversy which, of course put you back in the news a bit this week, as well. You were secretary of state during the early days of emails. You were one of the first secretaries, i believe to set up a personal email account and pushed to modernize the state Department System. Based on your experience, what do you make of these revelations this week, and what would you recommend that she do now . I cant speak to mrs. Clinton and what she should do now. That would be inappropriate. What i did when i entered the state department, i found that antiquated system had to be modernized and modernized quickly. So we put in place new systems, bought 44,000 computers and put a new internet capable computer on every single desk in every embassy, every office in the state department, and then i connected it with software. But in order to change the culture, to change the brain words as i call it, i started using it toward to get everybody to use it to be a 21st institution and not a 19th century but i retained none of those emails and we are working with the state department to see if theres anything else they want to discuss with me about those emails. Theyve asked you to turn them over but you dont have them. Is that it . I dont have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files and, in fact, a lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went to the state Department System and they were address eded to state Department Employees and the state. Gov domain but i dont know if the servers at the state department captured those or not. And most they were all unclassified and most of them i think are pretty benign so im not terribly concerned even if they were able to recover them. Okay, mr. Secretary, thanks very much for joining us this morning. Thank you, george. Coming up were going to take a closer look at that clinton email controversy with jon karl and our powerhouse round table. Also jeb bush hits the trail in iowa. And that big day at the Supreme Court and hear from the justices and back in two minutes. Imes and bad. Our experienced investment professionals are one reason over 85 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper averages. So in a variety of markets we can help you feel confident. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with Investment Information risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Sometimes i feel bloated or gassy, with rumbling, uncomfortable. I feel sluggish. Im taking the activia challenge enjoying activia twice a day for four weeks. May help reduce the frequency of minor digestive issues. 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This is not how Hillary Clinton goes down. I mean, what did you think my emails said . Hi, its hillary, i really screwed up on benghazi today. Please. Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha. I wasnt born yesterday. I was born 67 years ago, and i have been planning on being president ever since. There will be no mistakes in my rise to the top, if i decide to run. Who knows. Who knows. Oh, a week of stories over Hillary Clintons emails capped by that skit on saturday night live. Now its become a pretty familiar pattern but will this story evaporate like so many in the past or does it spell real trouble for the Upcoming Campaign . Jon karl examines those questions in our closer look. Hi, everybody. Reporter last night Hillary Clinton and daughter chelsea got a rousing welcome at a meeting of the clinton global initiative. Hillary clinton didnt say anything about the topic du jour but president obama did telling cbs he was unaware that she conducted official business using personal email. When did he learn about it . The same time everybody else earn learned it through news reports. Reporter the president praised secretary clinton as a great secretary of state but made it clear he does not handle his email the way she did. My emails, the blackberry that i carry around, all those records are available. Reporter the president said he is glad mrs. Clinton has now turned over her emails but theres still plenty of democratic angst some of it from those closest to president obama. Why did she use a separate email . How did she secure that . By not answering these questions, theyre allowing the story to fester in ways that are unhelpful. Reporter the issues now swirling this morning, how did clinton break the rules . State Department Policy during her time as secretary of state required that if state employees use private email for official business, they must turn it over to be entered on government computers. Mrs. Clinton did not do that until nearly two years after she stepped down as secretary and then only emails selected by her staff. And then there are the ghosts of clintons past. The new dustup brings up past controversies including secrecy and the clintons. The secret Health Care Task force that worked with her on the failed effort to pass a Health Care Reform bill in the early 1990s. The Rose Law Firm billing records that mysteriously went missing for two years when she was first lady finally turning up in the private residence of the white house. Heres what mrs. Clinton said back in those days about more lowtech recordkeeping. Are you keeping a are you keeping good notes of whats happening to you . Heavens no. It would get subpoenaed. I cant write anything down. Reporter the big political question, what is the impact on campaign 2016 . The last time she ran for president , mrs. Clinton did have something to say about secret emails when they belonged to republicans. We know about the secret wiretaps. We know about the secret military tribunals. Secret white house email accounts. Reporter but now that its her secret emails, mrs. Clinton seems to have been caught flatfooted. Not a good sign for a soontobe president ial campaign. For this week, jonathan karl, abc news, washington. Thank you. Lets talk about this now with the team from bloomberg politic, John Heilemann and Mark Halperin and our dueling strategists, Donna Brazile and Nicolle Wallace from the view who worked for both george w. And jeb bush. Welcome to you all and, mark, let me begin with you. I think weve seen a version of this story that jon karl hinted at five or six times. Generally the clinton ss underreact and hunker down, the critics and media overreact. Is it different this time . Will it make any difference . I said a few weeks ago on this show i thought she was easily the most likely president of the United States. I now think not only is she because of this as a symptom and a cause, i now think shes not only easily the most likely, i dont think shes any more than most likely. This is go thats a big shift. Yeah. Because of emails . A big shift. Because of what this says as a symptom. Exhale. Not as a cause, as a symptom. Exhale. What shes doing here in terms of lack of response, lack of a sense of what people think of her and combined with what i thought was an extraordinary weak performance at her speech the other day, her husband can get through these things because hes a politician of a lifetime. She cannot. If this is the way shes going to run her operation, if this is the mindset shes going to have, i dont think shes going to be president. The problem with, of course, recording anything about the clintons is we overexploit it then we talk about it until we find Something Else to talk about. Reporters are looking through the rear vuiew mirror to see if thats any way to manage her campaign or run the white house. Weve known for two years secretary clinton used a private email account. That was the norm for cabinet officials and government officials and, yet, you know, weve used this week to talk about how is she going to use this to talk about Everything Else . I think she will survive it. I think she will overcome it. I think when she announces if she announces, this will not be part of the conversation. That may be but, donna, let me bring this question to Nicolle Wallace. I guess that begs the question of why not get ahead of it. If you knew you were responding to the request of the state department, responding to the request from congressional committees why not be more public about what you were doing . I think their calculation is if you want to know what its like to run for a president as a republican, watch what Hillary Clinton is going through. The media hyperventilation over everything the clintons do reminds me so much of how they treated bush and cheney and i said earlier this week and i thought someones head was going to explode in the media. This is a media problem for her, no doubt. Journalism and journalists view themselves as the safeguard and the guardians of the public interest. They think the public has an interest and so do the republicans on the benghazi select committee. But these were emails. Not encrypted nsa taps. They will eventually come out and i think whats instructive to me is how the media is now writing her off because she didnt turn over her emails. We dont know yet if this is a political problem but it is most certainly a media problem. Okay John Heilemann, Hillary Clinton has been hurt with Mark Halperin, how about democrats . Youre not seeing a big uprising among democrats. Maybe some anxiety behind the scenes. Look, were at the point of the campaign right now where on both sides this is about really the establishment, right . This is not voters are hardly engaged on either side but at this moment it not just this email thing and im not quite as pessimistic as mark or ive changed my views about her quite as much but this story comes on the back of the stories about foreign donors at the foundation, it comes on the story about other questions about the foundation and business groups that were giving to it. Shes had an extraordinarily bad run. This is a punctuation of some number of weeks of stories that are damaging to her because they go to the whole massive questions that are now going to get asked and looked into. This story is going to go on for a long time because of the fact that the subpoenas are being issued, because of the fact theres still emails she kept on her private server that respect even the ones she turned over to the state department. There are huge questions and for establishment democrats i think the answer, george, to answer your question is, i think for establishment democrats it increases what has been a persistent unease about her from 2008 that still lingers from 2016. That unease to open the door to barack obama eight years ago. I dont know if theres anybody awake in the wings right now, but i know a lot of establishment democrats getting that kind of queasy feeling in their stomach again that they had back in 2007 and 2008. Martin omalley stepping up his activity this week although not speaking on this but gets to the question, Mark Halperin, what does secretary clinton do about it . Does it speed up her plans to get in . Does she change her operation . Does she turn over all emails to the national archives. If i may respond quickly to two things nicolle said. The press does have an obligation. This is not just a political story. What she did, withholding documents not available for subpoenas or requests is regardless of party. That is not i disagree with that. Were talking about political consequences. I think its were also talking about whats right and how government is supposed to its far more devastating to say to diane sawyer i was flat broke. People understand that those riding in a limo for two decades is flat broke. Im sure she has political problems. Im not sure that making the media mad is one of them. Ill just say, shes still any democrat who is nominated will have huge advantages. Shes still an extraordinarily strong figure and raise a lot of money, et cetera. I dont know what shell do. Our reporting from our colleague Jennifer Epstein was they think her saying its up to the state department and cannot address it, i think she must she expects those emails to be released. She expects every last one of those but, donna, what else did she do look, her personal what she needs to do we dont know. Let donna. She must you say speak publicly. What should she do . First of all, she should Start Talking about the economy and Start Talking about, you know, all of the important issues facing the country. She needs to get out here and run a campaign if shes going to run, and she should not worry about what the 300 emails that the House Benghazi Committee is looking at. Look, she is a strong candidate. And let me just tell you, theres nobody in the Democratic Party i just talked to and we just had a big democratic meet g meeting and i heard from governors and others, nobody is drinking peptobismol right now. People feel pretty confident that if she decides to run, shes going to be a strong contender and these emails aside, she has an answer on the economy and jobs and what the american really care about. We have to take a quick break. Republicans on benghazi shgs those emails will come out. That will come out. Quick break now. Coming up next jeb bush on the trail. His first trip to iowa. Were right there too. Can he make the sale to conservatives . Plus im Martha Raddatz. Im in boubakeur iraq well have an interview and also an interview with iraqs Prime Minister. Sometimes i feel bloated or gassy, with rumbling, uncomfortable. I feel sluggish. Im taking the activia challenge enjoying activia twice a day for four weeks. May help reduce the frequency of minor digestive issues. Try the activia challenge it works or its free friday night, buddy. You are gonna need a wingman. And with my cash back, you are money. Forget him. My Airline Miles will take your game worldwide. What im really looking for is i got two words for you rewards. Theres got to be better cards than this. [ male announcer ] theres a better way with creditcards. Com. Compare hundreds of cards from all the major banks to find the one thats right for you. Its simple. Search, compare, and apply at creditcards. Com. First rounds on me. Lowes presents how to plan for the future. Happy valentines day. Happy birthday. Sorry i forgot our anniversary. Happy mothers day. Now get roundup 32oz. Concentrate for 18. 97 at lowes. Jeb bush in iowa yesterday. His first trip to the key caucus state since he started hinting about 2016. It was an Agriculture Forum for gop contenders and abcs david wright was there. Reporter hes no stranger to iowa. Hey, you excited to be in iowa. I am, i am. Delighted to be here. Reporter but before he was the candidates son or the candidates brother. This weekend for the first time jeb bush was in iowa as his own man. A lot of people know me as georges boy or barbaras boy or ws brother. All of which im very proud of. Reporter his challenge now convincing the voters hes a step forward, not a step back. I want to win. I want our party to win. I want conservatives to win. Reporter is the bush name an asset or a liability in iowa . Well, from the standpoint if youre known better than somebody else and the name is recognizable, its very much an advantage. Its not like he has to go and introduce himself or spell his last name. Reporter but that last name also comes with some baggage. Seven out of the nine people on his Foreign Policy team were people that advised his brother to invade iraq. Reporter at the iowa ag summit, people listened politely as bush outlined views on immigration that may be a bit too moderate for this crowd. His only applause line was on the subject of barbecue. Well be cooking iowa beef and [ laughter ] reporter but at his first meet and greet with actual voters at a pizza ranch, he showed he can connect. Yes, maam. Reporter a beauty queen in a tiara asked about alzheimers disease. How many people here who have a Family Member that has dementia or alzheimers . Reporter bush handled it like an old pro. Your father ran on a kinder, gentler america. Your brother ran on compassionate conservatism. How would you sum up your message in a few words . When i get to that, ill let you know. Reporter even in iowa its early days. Jeb bush is off to a start. For this week, david wright, abc news, cedar rapids. Thanks to david for that. Were back with the roundtable right now and, Nicolle Wallace, i want to start with you, of course, you worked for jeb bush in the past. You saw david wright. Gave him pretty good review, Mark Halperin gave him pretty good reviews yesterday, as well. Probably his most confident Campaign Performance yet but is facing a real uphill fight in iowa. Yeah, david wright made the exact point about what jeb accomplished yesterday. He proved to everybody that he can connect, and i worked for him. I went to countless events with him, and he is always real in the room, always. Theres nothing no manufactured emotion. There are no talking points. He writes his own talking points so i think that iowa is a great place. I think iowa gets a bad rap for having this conservative litmus test. Thats part of it but also the most sophisticated political analysts in the Republican Party. They want someone who could win so you saw jeb speaking right to that saying i can win. I want my party to win. I want conservatives to win. I saw him a few days earlier and was at his first meeting with voters just outside las vegas a few days before this iowa thing and i was really struck. I think hes been very unimpressive giving speeches, not good off the prompter or prepared text but in that room where he was speaking off the cuff and then taking a lot of questions from voters, he was loose and he was funny. He made took a few shots at the clintons along the way. But was very was felt like as if he had not been off the campaign trail for as long as he had been on the campaign trail. Very impressive to me. Donna, if he can pull off this balancing act holding to his positions on issues like immigration and more to the center of the party, but still getting the nomination, that poses significant challenges to hillary or whichever democrat gets the nod. Well, we all know how republicans run. They run to the right in a primary and then in a general election they pivot back to the center. Hes not doing that. Well, can i finish, little journalist, over here . I need to give yall some tabasco. But theres no question that jeb bush knows how to connect with voters. Hes a conservative. Hes not a moderate. Hes a conservative and i guess i was impressed that i saw him stand up to those in the room who said, well, we want subsidies to continue to ethanol. No, we have to take a look at it. Let it be market driven. He still faces a lot of obstacles because i think what the conservatives are hungry for this session, this season is somebody who is a true, tried conservative that can win in a general election and jeb bush might not thats going to sets out an interesting poll, Mark Halperin. Who is going to prevail, the republicans who want a winner or the republicans who want purity . Jeb bush was an extraordinarily conservative governor of florida. And there are a few issues on which hes out of step with some of the party, but i think people continue to overstate the extent to which common core and immigration will stop him from winning and electability is going to be a huge issue, but so is fundraising, so is hiring staff and so is authenticity. The reason why so many of the clinton people are worried about jeb bush is his public authenticity does not make a good matchup for her. Privately shes a very authentic and accomplished person, but their public personas, their Public Performance couldnt provide a worst contrast for her. And he turned over all his emails on a server that you can read. It took seven years and not all of his emails. He still has a lot of them outstanding. By the way, im not even interested in reading his emails. I dont want anybody to read mine. A couple seconds left before we take a break. Did jeb bush reestablish himself as the front runner at this week . Scott walker had been making some real inroads. I think theyre in the both top tier. What i notice mark is totally right about common core and immigration about being overstated. I think you guys remember the way bill clinton was at odds with much of the democratic orthodoxy in 1992 and ran to the center and still was able to win. The bigger problem for the Republican Party, he is jeb bush and the name, not just the way liberals dont like him because hes a bush but the fact that there are a lot of republicans who think i dont want to sacrifice the argument of having a candidate of the future, if Hillary Clinton will be the democratic nominee, we need someone younger who looks like the future who is not tied to all that bush baggage. You hear that among a lot of republicans who want to look at A Scott Walker or a marco rubio or someone else who could just have a clean break with the past. Thats a great point. We have to take mother break. Lets take a look at our powerhouse puzzler. It was inspired by Barbara Mikulski who was the longest serving woman in congress. She announced her retirement this week. So who will become the longest serving woman in congress when mikulski leaves at the end of this term . Somebodys going to know that. Well be right back. 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Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Sometimes i feel bloated or gassy, with rumbling, uncomfortable. I feel sluggish. Im taking the activia challenge enjoying activia twice a day for four weeks. May help reduce the frequency of minor digestive issues. Try the activia challenge it works or its free you see those demonstrations outside the Supreme Court this week. Inside a lively and intense oral argument. The justices sparring with lawyers over the fate of obamacare. No cameras in the courtroom but the taperecorders were rolling and abcs Supreme Court expert terry moran has this report on what the questions and answers reveal. Reporter it was deja vu all over again this week at the Supreme Court. Thats not what you said previously when you were here last time in this neverending saga. [ laughter ] reporter this challenge to the president s sweeping health care law, which survived an attempt to kill it in the Supreme Court in 2012, boils down to four words, established by the state. Thats how the law says people should get obamacare subsidies to pay for insurance if they need the help on insurance exchanges established by the state. But only 16 states have established those exchanges so the federal government stepped in to pay the subsidies and that, opponents say, is against the law. The liberals on the court rushed to the laws defense, look at the overall structure of it, they argued, not these four little words in an obscure section. Youre talking about congress hiding, borrowing the phrase of one of my colleagues, a huge thing in a mousetrap. Okay . Reporter conservatives rejected that argument and they rejected the notion that 6 million plus americans who could lose insurance if the Court Strikes down the law would face disaster. What about congress . You really think congress is just going to sit there while all of these disastrous consequences ensue . Reporter the key moment, though, may have been when Justice Kennedy, the courts crucial vote in so many cases, raised sharp concerns about states rights with the antiobamacare arguments. Theres a serious constitutional problem if we adopt your argument. The states are being told either create your own exchange or well send your Insurance Market into a death spiral. Reporter so have conservatives found obamacares achilles heel in four words or will the Supreme Court once again step in and save the law and save so much of president obamas legacy . For this week, terry moran, abc news, london. Lets talk about it with two experts. Joan biskupic covers the Supreme Court for reuters, covered the court for a long time and also michael cannon from the Cato Institute who filed a brief in the case challenging obamacare. Mr. Cannon let me begin with you. When you heard those questions from Justice Kennedy, were you worried . Well, no, and this isnt a challenge to obamacare. What happened here is the political appointees of the Treasury Department read the law. They didnt read it before it passed. They read it. They found out that it doesnt work and they pressured the irs to expand its own power under the law, and theyre now taxing 57 million americans illegally. In contravention of the explicit limits on the irs powers under this statute, and thats what this case is about. The plaintiffs in this case are representing 57 million americans who are being subjected to illegal taxes. So when Justice Kennedy said that, he actually wasnt making a point in the governments favor. He was making a point that he had said a couple of times that the statute may well favor the plaintiffs interpretation. He was saying that then if that clear language is coercive of the states, then that could be a problem. Let me bring this to joan bikuspic. It was pretty clear where the four liberals on the court stood during this argument. Also where justices scalia and alito and thomas, so it all comes down to kennedy and the man who didnt say much at all during this question chief justice roberts. What do you make of that sphinxlike behavior . I think he knew he was being watched because he cast the decisive vote last time and the little he said could have been read slightly more to the government side than not, but as i said, slightly, but i do think michael cannon underestimates a little bit the power of Justice Kennedys question here. I think that this time around he could, indeed, be the swing vote person. Now, again, as we all know, we have several months before we see a ruling, a lot could go on behind the scenes, votes could shift. But Justice Kennedys concern for this law being coercive on the states, if the court rules for the challengers i thought was significant and, frankly, i think a lot of insurers thought it was significant, and the markets rose on insurance stocks at that question, so i think that there might be some there there. And, michael cannon, which justice do you think is most likely to join those on your side of either kennedy or roberts . Well, both roberts said less, kennedy made a lot of noises that favored the plaintiffs, and i think that one of them was his concern about coercion. I think there are four numbers to keep in mind when were talking about this coercion question, 2, 8, 8 and 2. 2 is the number of benefits that states would get under the plaintiffs interpretation of the law if they choose not to establish an exchange. They would be totally exempted from the employer mandate and their residence would largely be exempted from the individual mandate. 8 is the number of states that had already enacted this supposedly conservative this supposedly coercive penalty before on their own Insurance Markets before it was passed and 8 is also the number of states that said to the Supreme Court, we prefer this coercive penalty to the cost of compliance, and 2 finally is the number of states that have sued because they prefer in similar challenges because they prefer this supposedly coercive penalty to the cost of compliance. Finally, joan biscupic, how important it we heard the phrase death spiral a lot. How much do you think the justices will take the consequence to their decision on the ground into account . Well, i have to say, george, that theyre going to look at precedent and look at the statute itself. But both sides, both the conservatives and liberals, you showed that clip of scalia talking about potential dire consequences and certainly Justice Kennedy thought that way and Justice Alito also a conservative said if the consequences are going to be so sharp, maybe we should actually postpone the effects of a decision that would go against the government. Thats if the decision goes against the government. A lot of tea leaves to sort through. Thank you both very much. Lets bring us back to the roundtable right now. And, Mark Halperin, let me begin with you. This may be a case for the challengers, at least those republicans in congress and those running for president of be careful what you wish for because of the consequences of what happens if the Supreme Court actually does strike down this subsidy scheme. There are ways to fix it if the Supreme Court does strike it down, but they involve bipartisan cooperation between the president and congressional leaders, and that hasnt been very easy to come by. You know, it will be a bit of a game of chicken. Republicans will say to the president if its struck down well negotiate with you but we want a lot. We want a lot in terms of changing how the Affordable Care act works. The president may decide to take the chaos and blame it on the republicans. Donna, the white house has been very clear and the secretary of health and Human Services is theres no backup plan, theres no plan b is that really tenable . I think so. 8 million americans will be impacted by this court decision. Already on the house side, chairman paul ryan, hes trying to get the republicans to focus, focus, focus. The problem is the republicans might not even come up with a plan b that the white house can even start looking at. For now its going to throw a lot of chaos into the process. Does this put more pressure on republican candidates for president to come up with affirmative plans on what to do about health care . Well, its an opportunity and i think itll set apart people like scott walker and jeb bush governors who have governed in their state from people that, you know, i think come into the race with a more political posture but i think the chaos, this is not one to blame on the republicans, the chaos was born out of the extremely partisan nature with which the bill was crafted and the extremely partisan nature with which it was ran through congress. So i think that any chaos that ensues is squarely the blame lays squarely with the white house. Republicans however have been the primary critics of obamacare. If the Court Overturns it, it will be incumbent on republicans to offer a real alternative and that is something they have talked about doing for years and they cant even come up with let alone coming up with an alternative that both sides can agree on they cant even come up with an alternative they agree on within the party. I think republicans will come together. Paul ryan has spent a lot of time thinking about this. Republicans interested in governing the court will rule 63 and uphole it. I dont know if itll be 63 but i think the court will uphold it. Dont know. I think theyll uphold it and say the irs interpretation and they could change up the next president. Right. Roberts i want my question mark back. I dont know what the Supreme Court is going to do. And neither do they. Neither do they. None of us do. And we can all be misled by the questions and answers. We should say that, as well. Before we go, a final word to say an extraordinary week at the top of the program on the whole issue of Race Relations in the country. We saw that report on ferguson. Donna brazile, we saw the president s one of the most passionate speeches hes given in years yesterday in selma. Yes, yes, george, i read that report. I read both reports. It was a snow day, so i had nothing else to do but to read. And let me tell you, the first report exonerating Darren Wilson, i mean, look, i understand that Police Officers, you know, are not held accountable in these circumstances, but when you read the well, its more than that donna. The report laid out in great detail what happened on the ground. George, it go, and i disagree with that report in large measures but i understand. I understood i read it and i respect the Justice Department decision, but when you read the 108page report, especially the details where not just the emails, the emails that said just nasty, bitter racist things but the report that said that local officials were pressured to raise revenue. Police officers who are supposed to protect and uphold the law are being pressured to collect revenues from poor people criminalizing poverty. The report is awfully tells us we have a long way to go. That was so shocking, Nicolle Wallace, that when you read in the words of the report this is a Collection Agency from africanamericans treating them more like customers who they needed money from rather than citizens. I was more shocked by eric holders own words when he questioned how such an alternative version of events to hands up, dont shoot could take hold and he warned us. He said we should take time trying to understand how that can happen and i reread your transcript of your remarkable interview with Darren Wilson yesterday and the faktct that the Justice Department now stands behind the version he recounted only to you is justifies as much attention as what is inexcusable behavior from the police department. But i think eric holder, the point of what he was saying there, part of the reason why an alternative narrative could take hold is because of the context in which this is a racist police department. Thats the inescapable conclusion of what you read there and as bad as it is, its not unique, not just in ferguson. What we have learned in the last year, and if anybody didnt know this already, they were out to lunch, but there really are two systems of justice in america for black and white americans and ferguson may be the worst but its true in new york city and its true everywhere in the country. Thats going to have to be the last word. Thank you very much. Great talk today. Up next Martha Raddatzs exclusive interview with the iraqi Prime Minister. Does he want more american troops . His answer ahead. Announcer catch this week online all week at abcnews. Com. On facebook and twitter. Acebook and twitter. There are iraqi forces this morning continuing their march toward tikrit trying to take back saddam husseins hometown from isis. It is part of a massive offensive. Joint chiefs chair Martin Dempsey heading to iraq to consult with him and ahead of that the Prime Minister sat down with Martha Raddatz for this exclusive interview. Reporter now tens of thousands of iraqi soldiers and Shiite Militia are fighting to oust the isis extremists who took over tikrit nine months ago. This is a very, very dangerous organization. If they are allowed to continue, if they are not stopped on time, i can assure you no army in the region can stand in their own way. Reporter for Prime Minister Haider Al Abadi its a critical test of his countrys military power. We have to stop them for our own sake, and i think the world has to stop them for their own sake. Reporter we spoke to a. M. Abadi in a former palace of dictator saddam hussein. Abadi took office six months ago as isis solidified its hold on a third of his country from across mosul in the north to al Anbar Province and coming within 20 miles of the capital baghdad. Do you have a sense of what its like in those areas . I think its undescribable and thats why were very eager to liberate these areas as soon as possible. Reporter one key part of that strategy is reclaiming tikrit. The only way to take back the city is not by bombardment, by having troops on the ground take back the city. Reporter do you wish you had american ground troops, Ground Combat troops to help . It doesnt help whether i wish or not. I dont think thats going to happen. This administration understands the u. S. Public are not eager or they dont want to send their own sons and troops outside u. S. Reporter without american combat forces on the ground, iran has stepped in to fill the void. Nearly twothirds of those fighting for iraq are iranianbacked Shiite Militias. Tell me how much iran has been involved. Well, iran is a neighbor. I think we have the longest support with run iran and feels itself under threat. So i think theyre helping in a lot of ways. Many advisers. Reporter one of those a revered commander of the Iranian Quds Force and staunch american adversary. During the iraq war he oversaw militias responsible for hundreds of american deaths. Is one of those general suleimani, who is head of the quds force . Well, he comes and go. He is not residing here. He just comes and visits and then goes. Reporter american officials while optimistic about the tikrit offensive are worried fearing isis fighters will hide within the city, armed with suicide vests and booby traps. Another key part in liberating the country of isis, clearing out anbar. We traveled to the front lines in al Anbar Province west of baghdad to see for ourselves how close the battle is being waged. Im standing right on the front line. These are Iraqi Security forces on this side and on the other side of that berm, isis. And up on that berm, an iraqi sniper. Can you spot isis from your scope . Yeah. I can see. Reporter the defense minister tells me that his troops are ready for battle. Their morale is high. [ chanting ] reporter for the Prime Minister, what the iraqis need are tactical victories, al anbar, tikrit. If they can be successful, it will pave the way for a move on mosul, the heart of isiscontrolled territory or daesh as he refers to the jihadist group. Once we kick da we will have killed their own ambition. Reporter the retaking of mosul, you said you need to take time and need to have your forces trained. Our timetable is not only time. Its factually on the ground. We have to achieve certain things on the ground. Reporter the supply routes. Ly route number one. Air cover, number two. Preparation of our own armed forces, number three. Reporter the Prime Minister insisting they will do this on their own timetable, possibly earlier than summer. I know some are surprised and unhappy in washington because they havent taken a full control over these operations but i think everybody must respect iraqi sovereignty and we want to do it on our own and we have to take charge of what we are doing because its iraqi lives which have been sacrificed. Reporter along with Many American lives before them. For this week, Martha Raddatz, abc news, baghdad. Thanks to martha for that this is an allen family production. And heres why we love chex. One, we love choices like chocolate, vanilla and honey nut. Two, we dont love artificial colors or flavors. Does anybody . And three. Its gluten free. Chex. Full of what you love. Free of what you dont. Have you tried gluten free chex oatmeal and new chex granola mix . Two more delicious reasons to love chex. And we end with good news for the 12th straight week no reports from the pentagon of Service Members killed in afghanistan. Thats all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out world news tonight and ill see you tomorrow on gma. In little news this sunday, a big house fire in the south bay. What firefighters found inside the home which was supposed to be vacant and car thieves captured on camera. The string of breakins of east bay car dealerships. Good morning. From our exploratorium camera look at the low clouds hovering over the bay and the coast. Thats going to bring a cooler day today but we will still talk about aboveaverage warmth and maybe some rain all in the week ahead. Join us next on hey, gracie. You know how our family has. Daddy and mommy. And me yeah, thats right. Pretty soon. Youre going to have a baby brother. And. A puppy. 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