Enforce on businesses who are gaming the system, enforce their requirements to live up to the law. Three, make sure that we are reforming Legal Immigration so that we can use it to make sure that those who have come here legally have a reasonable option. And weve not proposed anything to capitol hill yet. Weve got a bill. Were doing exactly what the president said we would do last month in las vegas which is were preparing. Were going to be ready. We have developed each of these proposals so we have them in a position so that we can succeed because the fact of the matter is, jon, you know as well as i do, going back to 2001, this has been a priority for many conditions. So lets make sure that they get this done and theyre up there working on it right now. Senator rubio, senator durbin, senator schumer and others, and lets see how they do and well be ready to work with them. Back to my question, how could the white house be working on a draft, even if its a white house draft, without at least talking to republicans about it . I mean, has the president even met with marco rubio on immigration . Were talking with all the parties to the gang of eight effort in the senate. Jon he says theres been no consultation. Weve been working with all the members up there. We have our staff working this very aggressively with their staffs and with the members and were working this very aggressively as you think we would with such a high priority for the country. This immigration system is broken. Border security, weve made great progress for the last four years. We want to build on that, and were going to continue to work with senator rubio and others on this, but he says its dead on arrival if its proposed. Lets make sure it doesnt have to be dead when proposed and make sure the gang of eight makes Good Progress on these efforts as much as they say they want to and thats exactly what we intend to do to work with them. What do you say to marco rubio on this . Hes saying halfbaked, flawed. What do you say to him . How do you do some damage control . I wont get engaged in the back and forth which is often the practice in washington. A big political scrum before its already here. He started it. Look, im not going to engage as i said in some kind of back and forth. What i will do is make sure our team is doingg exactly what the president said and what he said to the country in the state of the union the other night which is we have to make progress on Immigration Reform. We should enact this this year and the president will continue to work with the team to make sure that happens. Okay, i want to move to the other big battle you have coming up right now with congress. The socalled sequester. These automatic spending cuts. Weve heard some dire warnings about what they would mean. Weve heard 70,000 kids kicked off head start, the equivalent of 1,000 federal agents off the job, the navy shutting down four air wings, delaying a carrier air strike to the persian group and had a senator talk about fivehour waits at airports if these cuts go in effect, so tell me straight with me how bad will this be if it happens . We didnt even raise the thing that concerns the president most about the sequester, which is weve seen pretty good Economic Activity over the course of the last several months. The Housing Market is healing. The stock market is coming back. Youve seen Consumer Confidence restored. So the lens through which the president looks at this fight, jon, is a lens that says, are we doing everything we can in this country to strengthen middle class families . Thats how our country, our economy is strongest when a thriving, rising middle class is the engine for growth in this country. Thats exactly what we want to do. When you look at sequester the impact on middle class families, whats it going to be, teachers in schools, 13,000 schools 13,000 teachers are going to be hit, 6,000 schools. If you look at mental health, if you look at food inspections and youve already heard the devastating list of horribles that the pentagon has said are going to be out there. So the question is, on top of all those things that you just talked about is what is the impact on the middle class . So the question the president is asking is why dont we take a step back, lets fix this in a kind of balanced way the president has proposed and the Senate Democrats have proposed with a reasonable amount of spending cuts and a reasonable amount of revenue raisers so that we can get this thing done and move on to the business of the country. But help me understand because we have a budget. This is look at exactly what this is. 85 billion this year out of a budget of 3. 8 trillion. You can see just the small slice and then if you look at the sequester over ten years, were talking about 1. 2 trillion out of 47 trillion in projected government spending. Is it really impossible to find less than 3 of savings in a federal budget without making those kind of horrible cuts . You know what, its not impossible, and thats exactly what the president has done over the last year, 2. 5 trillion in deficit reduction. Hes ready to do another trillion and a half to get up to the 4 trillion target that economists across the country tell us is needed to stabilize the debt over the next ten years. So thats exactly what the president has done working with democrats and republicans. But youre going to hold on tax increases were going to insist on doing it which means tax increases. Insist on doing it in a balanced way, a way that allows us to maintain the kind of investments that middle class families in this country rely on, jon. We were just talking about our families, our kids. You know what, were not going to put at risk the education investments in this country because we cant get together to resolve this in a balanced way. This is not an ideological effort, jon. This should not be a social science experiment. This should be a question where we ask ourselves what is most important to the economy, what is most important to the middle class families of this country and thats the way the president is going to do this. Were almost out of time. Very quickly, two other things. Yeah. Chuck hagel, the nomination delayed, also cia director looks like hell be delayed. Is this a threat to security . Its of grave concern. If you look at chuck hagel, decorated war hero, republican senator, somebody who over the course of the last many years either as a republican senator or as the chairman of the president s intelligence Advisory Board ive worked with very closely, this guy has one thing in mind, how do we protect the country . Is there a danger of this being delayed . Between john brennan, cia director and chuck hagel as secretary of defense, we want to make sure that we have our those guys sitting in the chairs working because i dont want there to have been something missed because of this hangup here in washington. Okay, and very quickly, john boehner had a very seemed like a harsh comment directed toward the president saying that i dont think he has the guts to cut or to deal with the entitlement problem. He doesnt have the courage to take on the liberal side of his own party. What do you say to speak her of the house john boehner . In the state of the Union Address tuesday the president laid out a very detailed plan to get to the 4 trillion in deficit reduction and grow the economy, strengthen the middle class. Thats exactly what hes done and takes on his party and ask the republicans to do a little bit too. And thats what were going to continue to do. All right. Denis mcdonough, brandnew white house chief of staff. Thanks for coming on this week. Thanks so much for having me. In a this week exclusive congressman paul ryan joins us from janesville, wisconsin. Congressman ryan, thanks for coming to the show. Hey, good morning, jonathan. I want to get right to this dustup over immigration and marco rubios comments. Just last week you said that the president deserved credit for not politicizing the immigration issue. You thought that was a good sign. Do you still believe that . Actually i dont, and i really dont enjoy saying this. I did think that his words were measured and productive in the state of the union. But putting this leaking this out does set things in the wrong direction. Look, the question that we always have to ask ourselves, particularly with this white house, is the president looking for a partisan advantage, or is he looking for a bipartisan law . And by putting these details out without a guest worker program, without addressing future flow, by giving advantage to those who cut in front of line for immigrants who came here legally, not dealing with Border Security adequately, that tells us that hes looking for a partisan advantage and not a bipartisan solution. There are groups in the house and the Senate Working together to get this done, and when he does things like this, it makes that much more difficult to do that, and thats why i think this particular move, very counterproductive. But lets be clear. You have said that you would support an immigration bill that included a pathway for citizenship, correct . Yes, look, absolutely because we think thats theres a way to do this through earned legalization without rewarding people for having come in with undocumented status illegally. We dont want to give them an advantage over those who came here legally, and we think theres a way to do this while still respecting the rule of law. Its clear that what the president is talking about does not do that. I have a long record of Immigration Reform. Im not a johnnycomelately on this issue. Weve always believed there is a way of doing it while respecting the rule of law. Thats the delicate balance that needs to be achieved for this to be bipartisan and the president on most of these issues and this one now, like the others, seems to be looking for a partisan advantage and not bringing the parties together. Well, lets get to the biggest other issue out there right now which is these automatic spending cuts. Youve been pretty clear. Youve predicted for some time that you think this socalled sequester is going to happen. Let me ask you this, congress is now on recess for ten days, the president is playing golf in florida this weekend. Is there really any effort underway to try to avert these cuts right now . Are you even trying . There have been from the House Republicans. Lets take a step back. Dont forget its the president that proposed the sequester and its the president who designed sequester and the House Republicans who twice passed legislation replacing the sequester with smarter cuts in other areas of government. Okay. It hasnt passed a bill the president gave a speech showing hed like to replace it, but he hasnt put any details out there. Thats why i conclude it will take place but take a step back. We are here because the president back in the last session of congress refused to cut spending in any place and therefore we wound up with the sequester. Congressman, ive heard you say this in a talking point for republicans for a long time. This was the president s idea on and on and on but lets look at your own words. What you said right after the law putting this in place was passed in august of 2011. These are your words. You said what conservatives like me have been fighting for for years are statutory caps on spending, literally legal caps in law that says Government Agencies cannot spend over a set amount of money and if they breach that amount across the board sequester comes in to cut that spending. You cant turn it out without a supermajority. We got that into law. Now, it sounds to me there like if you werent taking credit for the idea of the sequester, you were certainly suggesting it was a good idea. So those are the budget caps on discretionary spending. Those occurred. We want those. Everybody wants budget caps. The sequester that were talking about now is backing up the Super Committee. Remember the Super Committee in addition to those caps was supposed to come up with 1. 2 trillion in savings. The republicans on the Super Committee offered even higher revenues in exchange for spending cuts as part of that. It was rejected by the president and the democrats. So no resolution occurred and therefore the sequester is occurring, and what weve always said is, lets cut spending in smarter ways to replace this sequester. We passed two bills doing that and weve heard nothing in response from the Senate Democrats or the president. Now we didnt pass anything and the point im trying to say is, when you had no budget passing the senate for four years, when the president is going to be about a month late in proposing his budget, theres no leadership on the other side of the aisle and therefore no agreement. Now, wait a minute. Two points. First of all, actually House Republicans have not acted in this congress. You know, you did in the last congress those bills are dead. No, in this congress so why havent you we passed it again, right. So now please say that again. Well, now we have the Senate Democrats on friday did come out with a plan to replace these cuts. Its half spending cuts and half tax revenue increases. What do you make of that democratic plan . Well, first of all, id be curious to see if they could actually pass that, number one. Number two, the president got his tax increases last year. He got those higher revenues. He was able to tax higher income individuals. But taking tax loopholes, what weve always advocated are necessary for tax reform means youre going to close loopholes to fuel more spending not reform the tax code. What is the goal were trying to achieve here, we want economic growth, job creation, we want people to go back to work. We want to prevent a debt crisis from hurting those who are the most vulnerable in society from giving us a europeanlike economy. In order to do that youve got to get the debt and deficit in control and grow the economy. So if you take tax loopholes to fuel more spending which is what theyre proposing then youre preventing tax reform which we think is necessary to end crony capitalism. So thats why we think we need to cut spending to pay for this. But your bottom line. Yes, our bottom line is to cut spending to pay for this. Youre saying no tax increases, period, to pay for this . Thats right. Thats right because revenues, loopholes are necessary for tax reform. If you take them for spending, youre blocking tax reforms and youre really not getting the deficit under control. Okay, now, the next big thing here is you the speaker has said you would come out with a balanced budget thats going to balance the budget in ten years. Your last budget didnt balance until well after 2030, so this is a big, new step. Some in your own party are a little worried about this. Mike simpson, republican congressman from idaho said we are saying a tenyear balance. Thats tougher than the last ryan budget. There could be a significant number of republicans that say, im not going there because it would be too dramatic. How are you going to balance the budget in ten years . What further things are you going to cut that you didnt last time . Well, well show you when we finish writing the budget. We havent literally finished writing it. Weve just begun because we just now got our baseline, so i cant answer the question since its not a complete task, but im very comfortable with the fact that we will pass this. Im very comfortable with the fact that we will produce a budget that balances. Our last budget balanced. It just balanced a little later. This one will balance on time because we have new numbers to work with from the Congressional Budget Office that i think will make it easier for us to balance and, look, the point also is this, were producing a budget. Were going to be passing a budget. The senate hasnt passed a budget for four years. The president has never proposed ever to ever balance the budget. Thats wrong. The reason we want to do this is not simply to make numbers add up. We want to prevent a debt crisis. We want to grow the economy and we want to get people back to work in society, and if we have a debt crisis, that is bad for our economy today. Okay. Lets never forget were robbing from future generations. Were almost out of time. I got to ask you about this new effort from karl rove to weed out what hes calling problem candidates and republican primaries. One conservative talk radio host said of this effort we are now at the point where you are almost better off in the Republican Party being endorsed by barack obama than karl rove. He is the reverse midas. Now, i might note, by the way, that karl rove has recently called you one of the most remarkable talents in america. But putting that aside, do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing to have a, you know, big washington power broker trying to get in there and meddle in republican primaries . You know what, jon, i dont even Pay Attention to this stuff. Im too busy trying to do my job and im too busy trying to put together a budget that balances to create opportunity, to get bipartisan Immigration Reform. I really dont Pay Attention to this so i have no thoughts on the matter whatsoever. No thoughts whatsoever. Okay, before you go, you know i have to ask you about your future. There was an article in politico by my friends mike allen and jim vandehei about your political future saying you are less inclined to run for president. And this quote caught my eye paul will never say hes not running for president because the constant speculation carries too many advantages, said a longtime friend. He will keep answering the questions in a way that will keep nosy political reporters interested. Now, congressman, at risk of being a nosy political reporter here, is it true, are you considerably less likely now to run for president in 2016 . Actually, jonathan, youve known me a long time, and the one thing you know about me is i dont play that game. I dont talk like that, so when you see these articles that are really not accurate, thats par for the course in washington these days. The point is this, i think the most important thing for me to do is do my job representing the First District of wisconsin, trying to prevent a debt crisis helping get a solution to the economy, to jobs, to getting our deficit and debt under control. That to me is my first priority. Thats what im focused on. Will i or wont i . I dont know. I literally do not know the answer to these questions about what is the best role for me to play to fix these problems for our country in the future. The point is i dont know the answer because im just not putting a great deal of thought into it. Im not for closing any opportunity. I may or i may not. I just dont know because right now we just had an election. Weve got jobs to do. What bothers me is this personal campaign the president has us in. We need to start thinking about doing our jobs after the elections than thinking about the next election. All right. The problem we have in washington. Unfortunately were out of time but ill take that as a definite maybe. Thank you very much, congressman paul ryan. All right. Appreciate your time. Coming up, our powerhouse roundtable weighs in on guns, and budget battle plus take on the rubio sip slip and then in our sunday spotlight, the brain surgeon the wall street journal is pushing to run for president. Dr. Ben carson is here. [ woman ] i dont know. I just cant imagine that retiring some day is even an option for sean and me. Howd you get comfortable enough to know you could really do it . Well, planning, of course. And we got a lot of good advice. 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Yes, you could. Go national. Go like a pro. I will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars, which is the combination of the budget cuts the president has, as well as the sequestration cuts. That in my view is making our future less certain and less secure. Bob, id just like to comment on this. First of all, this is not something i proposed. Its something that congress has proposed. It will not happen. Back with the roundtable, george will, ruth marcus from the washington post, former romney Senior Adviser stuart stevens, former speaker of the house Newt Gingrich and democratic congressman, thank you all for joining us. George, the bottom line, these sequester cuts obviously are going to happen and then were going to have a battle over the government shutdown, the debt ceiling. Where does this all end . It doesnt end. This is Democratic Politics in an age where weve made promises we cant keep and intractable budget ceilings we have to bump up. Let me give you two examples this week. The navy citing the sequester delayed the deployment of the Aircraft Carrier truman undermining our pledge to have two carrier groups in the persian group to keep pressure on iran. Citing the sequester. You telling me the navy cant find other ways to economize without this flamboyant and provocative way of trying to Pressure Congress . Second, this week we learned the Agriculture Department has a diversity awareness program. It doesnt cost much money, in which they teach the bureaucrats in the Agriculture Department to refer to the pilgrims as illegal aliens and minorities as emerging majorities. Its a small amount of money but a huge symptom of the utter contempt with which washington treats taxpayers money. Two good reasons right there to go ahead with the sequester. Mr. Speaker, are these being exaggerated, the doom and gloom . Grossly, of course. Look, this is a government so bloated, so wasteful and so incompetent that actually this is the equivalent of a recession and recessions, you know, jack welsh made the point the other day, any corporation that couldnt cut 2 , 3 of its gross spending would get rid of its ceo. This is not an obama comment. This is a Congress Plus obama comment. The pentagon needs a thorough overhaul. I helped found the military reform caucus in 81, im a hawk but im a cheap hawk. Cut the f35 overrun program. It is obscene and disgraceful and people should be demanding we fix the system. One other example, one other example, we just learned that one of the great solar powered Green Energy Projects was 140 million for a company in michigan which has produced zero products, zero for 140 million. Why shouldnt the American People say cut out the waste . Congressman . And, jonathan, the fact the president and democrats believe that we can make cuts and that we can reduce the debt but its got to be balanced. So i think we all agree on where we need to end up. Its a matter of how you get there and just to counter a little bit about what george said, the fact is this was never the president s idea, this was the result of hostage politics engaged in by a tea partycontrolled Republican Party, and this is what you have. This is the message you have when you get into those kind of hostage politics. Ruth, does it matter whose idea it was . It doesnt matter whose idea it was. What matters is that the unthinkable is now inevitable. Im going to give you my modest proposal for this sequester which is we should take the relevant members of congress and administration and put them on that stinky cruise ship and send them back out there but i want to say the notion that theres going to be various government waste, there is more waste to cut. The absolute worst way to cut it in the acrosstheboard unthinking mechanism of the sequester and, second, the impact of the sequester is bigger than it would appear if you just take it as a percentage of the budget as a whole because because theyre not touching entitlement. It doesnt touch most entitlement, so it hits two things very hard. It hits domestic spending which has already shrunken as the size of the economy to the levels of the Eisenhower Administration and it hits defense spending effectively because youre cramming it all into seven months, 9 of domestic spending, 13 cut in defense spending. Thats not smart government. And, stuart, thats a big hit in the pentagon. We know theres waste over there but a big hit immediately. Yeah, but, jonathan, you opened the show correctly with the most powerful person in the world saying its not going to happen. I cant believe given his extraordinary communication powers he cant get people together, talk to the country and solve this problem. It doesnt look like hes really trying very hard. I mean, its just not the top item on his agenda and hes made that clear. Youre endorsing the cruise ship idea. I like the cruise ship idea particularly if they can maybe come close to being hit by a meteorite because you could keep it all together. It would be a huge cable bonanza. But this is a test of leadership. I mean this is why we have in our system a president. Hes a leader. Hes going to lead us through this crisis and its just not happening . All right. We have to take a very quick break. Well have lots more roundtable ahead and take on those breaking developments on Immigration Reform plus chuck hagel, what the latest delay means for his chances. And the president s push on guns. Thats next. But there are some things ive never seen before. 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After all, whats the point of talking if you dont have something important to say . More roundtable straight ahead, but first, the sunday funnies. President obama made his fifth state of the Union Address tonight in washington, d. C. He spoke in front of congress. His focus was on jobs and the economy. He has an interesting plan to grow the economy, and he laid it out. This is it. Cash 4 gold. Look how cool that duck is. How could you go wrong . Did you see this photo just yesterday . Lightning struck st. Peters basilica just hours after the pope announced his resignation and the pope said, i guess thats a no to getting paid for unused vacation days. Look, every day were using more and more energy. The world needs more energy. Wheres it going to come from . Thats why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. Enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. Whats it going to do to the planet . Natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. Weve got to be smart about this. Its a smart way to go. Many hot dogs are within you. Try peptobismol togo, its the power of pepto, but it fits in your pocket. Now tell the world daniel. Of peptobismol togo. Waterloo top ten things going through marco rubios mind. Number ten, smooth. It would have been less awkward had he been wearing one of these on his head during the speech. Oh, my god, i asked for sparkling water. You tweeted out the water bottle yourself. Youve gotten there again. You know the thing that youve shown is your ability to laugh at yourself. Do you have anything to add to that tweet from last night . No, i needed water. What am i going to do . You know, it happens. All right. Back again with the roundtable. Well get to the watergate in a second, but the serious news with marco rubio was this white house immigration plan that leaked overnight and his, you know, pretty strong attack against it. Ive got to ask you, congressman castro, even your democratic colleague from texas, said it would be better if the president would let Congress Take the lead on this. Is the white house botching the effort to get a bipartisan deal here . Well, remember, this was leaked so its not something that the white house rolled out and its also clear that its incomplete. So i think, no, i think, look, its important that every branch of government, the executive and legislative branch both work on this and i also think theres a Silver Lining in this which is that there are a lot of commonalities between the two plans including a path to citizenship so theres a lot to work with there. But let me ask you what i asked denis mcdonough, which is why hasnt he talked to rubio about this . The only people that have gone down to the white house is all democrats. Sure, i think because all of that is still in the process. It hasnt happened yet. It will happen before something attacks and before something is passed certainly. Stuart . Well, i hope that they speak to the senator about it because to have success here, you have to have a plan that passes and that has not only the votes to get it but has the consensus support among the people and thats the great, the great missing element here is a consensus of what needs to be done. You have a moment here thats been created. Its a tremendous opportunity for the president to show leadership here. You have a senator in marco rubio who is showing i think true courage here in trying to solve a problem. They should go forward and not just stall here. And, george, i have to say the white house seems genuinely irritated that this leaked, as i could imagine. Yeah, as i can imagine. Look, theres a great consensus on the two really contentious issues that have bedeviled us for a generation. First, 11 Million People who are here are not going to be deported and are not going to selfdeport. The American People would not tolerate the police measures necessary to extract from our community these people, a majority of whom have been here five, six, seven, eight or more years. Secondly, we need immigrants. We need them for seasonal labor. We need them for construction industries. There are all kinds of industries dependent on this so we have the consensus on this. The problem is not stopping the flood from mexico. It stopped two years ago, the mexican economy furthermore is doing better than ours is and as it grows its going to solve the immigration problem largely that way. More than any fence can. More than any fence can, exactly. You brought up the phrase selfdeport so i want to flash back since we have a republican primary reunion to that moment in the republican primary when mitt romney brought this issue up. Look, if you dont deport them, how do you send them home . Well, the answer is selfdeportation which is people decide that they can do better by going home because they cant find work here because they dont have legal documentation to allow them to work here and so were not going to round people up. Okay, speaker gingrich, how much damage did mitt romney do not just to his own election prospects there but to the republican brand with how he handled that issue . Oh, i think that and the 47 comment were fatal. If you look at the polling data from univision and others, the minute he got into selfdeportation, both asianamericans and latinoamericans said, dont talk to me about jobs, deportment, you expect that my grandmother is going to go home . Dont talk to me, and you couldnt break through, and look at the last ad that the Obama Campaign ran in spanish for the last few weeks of the campaign, it was just mitt romney. And, jon, i think the Republican Party understands that and thats why i think there is going to be Immigration Reform. The president wants it. Its really his top legislative priority. The Republican Party wants it for the reason that it would like to retain, regain the presidency at some point but congressman ryan in his interview with you used the phrase delicate balance, and there were two delicate balances here. The first is the balance of whether the degree to which the president inserts himself into the process, the legislative process, or whether he holds back. For the white house theres a little bit of a rerun of health care here where they held back too long and let the process slip away. But theyve been urged to stay out a little bit so you have that back and forth. The other delicate balance is the degree to which the Republican Party can bring itself to do what it knows it needs to do in terms of comprehensive Immigration Reform and so i think the unhappiness that senator rubio expressed also reflected the delicate nature of how far republicans can go in creating that pathway to citizenship. Let me say something, the Republican Party had a problem with hispanic voters before this primary. I dont think it got better during the primary certainly and i think that i mean, it got worse. Thats regrettable, but if you look at the numbers, it didnt get significantly worse. The greatest appeal that the Obama Campaign had for hispanic voters turned out to be obama care and they ran a tremendous amount of their advertising appealing to hispanic voters. It was the only place in their advertising where they talked about obama care, it was to the Hispanic Community because an extraordinary percentage of hispanic voters are uninsured and that was smart politics. They did it well. The party was also known as the party that was against obama care, and that hurt us. Theres not one solution here for the problems that republicans have with hispanic voters, and i think well, immigration suddenly solves it. And i hope and pray we can get through this stage and we come to some sort of consensus here and go forward. Immigration is a big part of this. Were you struck by how kind of over the top marco rubios response was to this . I mean it was a draft. It wasnt the white house wasnt putting it out and he, you know, came out blazing on this. Id like to see the details of what he finds in it that is offensive or left out that is important to add to it. In that sense it strikes me as this may tell us something about the many pressures, conflicting pressures on marco rubio. Hes been on the cover of time magazine, anointed the savior of Republican Party. Thats a big lot of pressure and im sure he has heard from members of the Republican Party, some of whom do not want to be saved with the kind of Immigration Reform he has in mind. Jonathan, and i would point out i think thats right. I think his response was very eager. I think within 30 minutes after usa today broke that story, they had put something out. I think it would be better to be constructive, to actually get with the white house, get with the democratic folks in congress and figure out what we can do to Work Together on this. But go ahead. And i would also say that as far as immigration goes, i think health care, education, other issues for the Latino Community are very important just like all americans, but they do use, i think, that immigration issue to sort out who the good guys and bad guys are in politics. So its not just tone, but its also the policies that were passed in arizona, in alabama, in georgia, and those arent going away for awhile. I think theres a very important part of this, the Obama Administration probably cant bring itself to deal with. An obama immigration plan is not im just saying just from a bush Social Security plan after 04 was dped because it was the bush Social Security plan, so if you want to actually get legislation will a rubio immigration plan pass the house . No, but i think a rubio the House Republicans and House Democrats have been meeting on immigration. I mean i think there will be a house immigration bill that has a very substantial support that boehner and kantor and others will be supporting and i think that negotiated with a Senate Immigration bill that has to have bipartisan support could actually get to the president s desk. But an obama plan led and driven by obama in this atmosphere with the level of hostility towards the president and the way he goads the hostility i think is very hard to imagine that bill that his bill will pass the house. Newt brings up the really interesting leadership conundrum of obama. Because on the one hand you have republicans demanding that the president lead and demanding the president plan and then you have the reality on the ground that when the president does lead, the answer is, no way. It becomes radioactive. Yes, and so go ahead. Thats become a litmus test of the president. Is this about politics or is this about passing a bill . Because you have in senator rubio someone who really is doing something here extraordinary, trying to and he could be a partner in this process to help get it through. But one thing, stu and theyre going to use that person and try to help and work with him and lower the temperature of all of this and not be leaking plans and not be calling bluffs and try to get something done. If you get this is a moment. Well, we dont know who leaked, and the question im a big believer in working together, and im a big believer in reaching out. I also think newt is exactly right, if you reach out too publicly, if you embrace too much, youre going to doom your plan, and so its very complicated and especially because of the cross pressures on rubio and the Republican Party that george mentioned. If the president wants any substantial legislative achievement in the next four years and every hour that passes his power begins to leach away, its got to be this. Its as distant as the peloponnesian wars now. Go back to tuesday night. He said hes going to redesign high schools. No, he isnt. He said well have manufacturing hubs and scores of solyndras along the way and more croneyism, capitalism and double down on head start. 47 years of experience with head start and know all the good has dissipated by the third grade. None of that is going to happen. This could happen. So, this is the stakes are extremely high for the republicans, not just the president in terms of a legislative achievement. We have as much talked about republican reboot. The New York Times magazine has a cover story today on the republicans and their problem with technology, and, stuart, this quote caught my eye, romneys senior strategist stuart stevens, may well be remembered by historians as the last guy to run a president ial campaign who never tweeted. Really made if i had tweeted in this campaign, this whole discussion weve been having about the Second Amendment would probably be replaced about the First Amendment and whether or not it should apply to tweeting. Listen, i dont think that it would be a great mistake if we felt that technology in itself is going to save the Republican Party. Technology is something to a large degree you can go out and purchase, and if we think theres an offtheshelf solution that you can purchase with the Republican Party, its wrong. You know, weve had a lot of chance since the campaign to spend time with the obama folks and sometimes they had better technology. Some cases we have better technology. We dont have a 140character problem in the Republican Party. We have a larger problem that we have to look at and be patient about it. And trying to think that theres one solution like this, i just dont think are we ever going to get you on twitter, though . We can discuss that. So you disagree with this and think theres a Big Technology i think the way stuart just said it is exactly right. The Technology Problem is a culture problem. I mean the democrats had 54 data analysts and were hiring ph. D. S in advanced math because they were using the most advanced decision processes in the country. They were bringing in behavioral scientists. They were trying to figure out how you talk to 311 Million People and do so in a way that you can survive 8 unemployment and get reelected and it worked. Now, i think its actually hes right in a sense its a cultural problem. None of our consultants would have imagined hiring 54 people in the decision area. None of them would have imagined having 24 people who did nothing full time except emails and blind tested the best emails to see which ones worked. I mean, this they are a Super Bowl Team that we ought to respect deeply, and we are currently a midlevel college team floundering around, and i agree. Its not just you cant just go out and buy this. This is a fundamental rethinking of how you relate to the American People. And, frankly, most of them i mean, im embarrassed to say i felt election day wed win. I couldnt imagine this economy and obama getting reelected and that made me think if an airplane hits the mountain, maybe you better buy new radar. Yeah, its definitely a radar issue there. Quickly because i want to move on. The Republican Partys Technology Problem is a little like its immigration problem. Its necessary but not sufficient for it to get up to speed on those things. It wont help it win. I think about the Republican Party like the old joke how many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb. The lightbulb has to change. The Republican Party has to decide it wants to change. So i want to move on to this dustup over chuck hagel. And, george, the republicans delayed this. I dont understand whats going on. A lot who voted against having the vote said, no, no, ill let it happen in two weeks. Are the republicans playing a dangerous game by blocking hagel and brennan, defense and cia, when they know that both of them are ultimately going to be confirmed . Because they do know that and because most sensible republicans believe that a president is owed vast deference in picking his cabinet because the cabinet leaves when he leaves and the cabinet exists to implement his policies, neither is true of judicial appointments, for example, now, chuck hagel took that principle and made it really hard to subscribe to with this appalling performance in his hearing. Nevertheless, if the president wants a terrible secretary of defense, hes got a right to him, and i think hell get him. A big endorsement. Why are the republicans playing this game . Theres a secondary part which i think george would subscribe to. The constitution divides power. This is one of the first occasions where you see the republicans in the senate say we want to remind the executive branch that you have to have some deference to us. Lindsey grahams point is tell us the rest of the benghazi story. Other folks would like to know more about where did hagels money came from. I dont find it unseemly to say to a potential secretary of defense or secretary of the treasury, tell me what youve been doing while you were out of public office. Let me point out also you had north korea doing its nuclear test. Weve got a drawdown on afghanistan, all of these very significant issues and chuck hagel is being asked about sneaking fees that he may have received three or four or five years ago. May or may not have received. And i want to show you the one guy more than any other that blocked this is the new senator, ted cruz. Barely in office a month and listen to this exchange he had with john mccain. It is at a minimum relevant to know if that 200,000 that he deposited in his bank account came directly from saudi arabia, came directly from north korea. Senator hagel is an honorable man. He has served his country, and no one on this committee at any time should impugn his character or his integrity. Now, cruz went on to say, i dont have any evidence that moneys come from north korea but i mean this is a fellow member of the texas delegation. Sure, and i met ted, and hes always been nice to me, but that was, quite frankly, shameful to suggest that somebody that was a decorated veteran in vietnam, who was wounded and hurt for his country was not loyal to his country i think really is quite harsh and had no place there. You know what, hes not running for senator congeniality and he doesnt much care. There was no predicate for suggesting that that money came from north korea or any other very horrible country, and as the former solicitor general of texas, he ought to know better than that. If you look at this cruz story, the hagel story more broadly, if washington wanted to come up with a way to look worse, i cant imagine one. You know, first of all, im with george. The president is entitled to his nominee, but his performance, i was going to go with execrable but ill settle for appalling. It was an appalling performance. Okay. And now the republicans just want to make themselves look even more obstructionist with a country frustrated with that. Come on. If you dont like him, vote against him. This is just such washington nonsense. Look at what democrats did to clarence thomas, you look at what democrats did to judge bork. You look at the three months that john tower was hung out to dry by the senate, this is but youre not endorsing that behavior. No, im saying to this brandnew standard, no matter how stupid chuck hagel is, no matter how bad his performance, we all know he is an honorable man. How do we know that. We are unfortunately out of table. Great roundtable. Thank you very much for joining us. Joaquin castro, stuart stevens, george will, ruth marcus and Newt Gingrich, really appreciate your time. Up next, is a president ial run in store for this brain surgeon . The wall street journal hopes so. Our sunday spotlight is next, plus, who stole the spotlight at the white house this week . Well be right back. [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know that your mouth is under attack, from food particles and bacteria. Try fixodent. It helps create a food seal defense for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. Fixodent, and forget it. Now time for our sunday spotlight. This week shining brightly on dr. Ben carson, one of the top pediatric neurosurgeons in the country who made quite a splash with his recent appearance at the National Prayer breakfast where with president obama at his side, he had some choice words on Political Correctness and even the flat tax. Listen. Weve reached a point where people are afraid to actually talk about what they want to say because somebody might be offended. What about our taxation system . When i pick up my bible, you know what i see, i see the fairest individual in the universe, god, and hes giving us a system. Its called tithe. Now, we dont necessarily have to do a 10 but this principle. Were seeing the wall street journal had a lead editorial saying ben carson for president. Thank you for joining us. Well, thank you for having me. Typically Prayer Breakfast speeches dont get this kind of attention. You got more than 2 million views on youtube of this speech. What do you make of this reaction . Well, i make of it the fact that before i gave that talk, i prayed and asked god to give me wisdom what to say. What would resonate, what would be important and, you know, i dont think it was particularly political. Some people do. I know they do, but to be able to express an opinion about something that is problematic. You know, im a physician. I like to diagnose things, and, you know, ive diagnosed some pretty, pretty significant issues that i think a lot of people resonate with, and, you know, ive just been kind of overwhelmed by the response, particularly a lot of Older Americans who say they had given up on america, and, you know, what we really need is to be able to tone down all the rhetoric and be able to discuss things in a reasonable and rational way and come to conclusions rather than one side or the other side winning. If we can do that, i think theres real power in that. In your book, which came out more than a year ago, it was down quite a ways on amazon. Now its number three on the amazon bestseller list, but ive got to tell you, i have never heard of somebody talking about the flat tax at a Prayer Breakfast. That was a pretty interesting well, you know, i preferred to talk to refer to it as the proportional tax because, of course, you know, it comes from the concept of tithing. You know, if you make a gazillion dollars, you pay a gazillion dollars. If you make very little, you pay very little, but everybody contributes. What do you make of president obama as a leader . I think hes a very talented politician. That sounds like faint phrase. You obviously disagree with him. I mean, that was clear in your there are a number of policies that i dont believe lead to the growth of our nation and dont lead to the elevation of our nation, and, you know, what i would like to do i dont want to sit here and say all his policies are bad, but what i would like to see more often in this nation is an open and intelligent conversation. Not people just casting aspersions at each other. I mean its unbelievable to me the way people act like third graders, and if somebody doesnt agree with them, theyre this and theyre that, and, you know, and it comes from both sides and its so infantile and i dont know how well make progress. Were almost out of time. Before you go, the wall street journal ben carson for president , youre retiring as a surgeon this summer. What do you make of it . Are you going to get into politics . Its not my intention to do that, but as i always say in every part of my life, ill leave that up to god. That sounded far from ruling it out. Thank you very much, dr. Ben carson. We appreciate your time. Thank you. You can read an excerpt from ben carsons book, america the beautiful on our website, abcnews. Com thisweek, and now good news to report for the third week in a row the pentagon released no names of Service Members killed in afghanistan. But there was a reminder of service and sacrifice of our soldiers there. On monday president obama awarded the medal of honor to army veteran Clint Romesha whose son told a bit of the spotlight before the ceremony began. Romesha fought back tears as he was presented with the award for leading a charge against taliban fighters who had attacked a small outpost in 2009. Eight americans died in that battle. We honor the service of romesha and all of those soldiers. And finally, your voice this week, the question comes from yasin, who asks where can i rewatch your programs . Well, thank you for watching. Every episode is available at our website, abcnews. Com thisweek or check out our web only interviews like this morning Newt Gingrich will be sticking around to answer your questions. Thats all for us today. Thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out world news with david muir tonight. George will be back next week and we hope you will too. In the news, two boat es are hurt one seriously after colliding with the golden gate ferry. Well have the latest in a live report. Tens of thousands join Pope Benedict for sunday mass and new details how soon his successor could be chosen. Good morning, a live look from emeryville where its nice and sunny, fog in the south bay, gusty offshore winds and were talking about end to above normal weather pattern. That good morning, thanks for joining us. Im carolyn tyler. Lets start with a look at the weather with our meteorologist lisa argen. You may have felt the change in the air yesterday but we certainly have changes this morning. With very gusty winds and componenha