You're listening to Boulder Denver and for Collins. Thanks. Thanks. Of that. He. Didn't. I. Wish the same to. Lose. To see Listen did he sing. Cupid. Just certain to sustain dance sing Me teach me names. These. Things since. He. Was. Shaking. In. The Chair. Saying. You're listening to k.g. New Boulder Denver and for call. It Good morning you're listening to k.g. And you 88.5 f.m. 1390 am Boulder Denver 98.7 f.m. In Fort Collins 93.7 f.m. In Nederland and online at key Jan you and after f.m. Dot com current temperature along the front range is 64 degrees with a chance of thunderstorms after 11 am highs near 78 degrees Stay tuned for community public radio ad 530 followed by the b.b.c. At 6 am. From community Public Radio this is the c.p.r. News. From the York I'm Don De Bar at a time when just about every action taken by every element of the trumpet ministration is subjected to the deepest scrutiny by the media a radical change in the political landscape inside the United States has been taking place with very little notice being taken by that self-same media we discussed some of those changes with our longtime political contributor Professor Tony Montero The predict sions by many and including those on the so-called lest that the disaster would manifest itself in the rise of fascist movements and. That there would be intervention in Syria. And. Other places none of that has come to pass us war with China member some people were saying war with China and war with China you know increasing tensions and war with China over China's. Appropriation of the islands in the South China Sea none of that has come to pass but what has happened is we continued political. Disintegration of the party system in the United States and a situation which looks like at the national level that the country is on to govern itself because the political elite aren't able to agree on how this country should and can be governed. And then you have Trump and what he represents and what he represents is not insignificant although at times it appears that he is on an island isolated. From the political class the ruling elite as it were. But the fact that he doesn't concede much to them. Is very significant. On an issue of in period retreat. And question really setting the terms of the u.s. Relationships with the major centers of economic power in the world public I mean Europe. Bigger create Union China and Russia so I think 6 months out of the political crisis has deepened it seems to not be resolvable upon the terms of the 2 party system. But there is not yet indications that what is new and what will replace this system in crisis it does not appear that that new formation is yet ready to be born you know. A lot of the things that both you alluded to now but also larger set of things that we've been discussing for the last well it's been a year this month since the 2 conventions and so for at least the last year and a half almost 2 years now people are finally starting to come around to you know. At least introducing into the conversation both as a framework for understanding what has happened over the last year to an example being Schumer's a knowledge meant of the role of economics and you know the personal condition economic condition of working class people in the country having a role in the defeat of Hillary Clinton and also the open discussion in a number of areas including the u.s. Military this. Thing Department of Defense looking at multilateral or you know multipole arity in the world the you know and or move away from the idea of American hegemony and exceptionalism to a more realistic view which we've said the other Trump or the part of the elite behind him may well represent and what you know we're starting to see this kind of stuff being more openly acknowledged even as the attack on Trump steps up. Yeah I think you're I think you're absolutely right about that. You know this this the situation. Where the Democrats and Chuck Schumer. Who is not a very articulate a very clear thinking person and least he understands like Bernie Sanders does that identity politics is not a recipe for political victory in a situation where over half of the American population are either in poverty or close to it in other words. The Democratic Party or for that matter any party has to base its program its policies upon upon the working class not upon identity politics and a coalition of. All of these. Identity. Coalitions or groups be they black brown gay queer or disabled or whatever that what unites all of these identity sectors is the common situation of economic decline of the country and the rapid deterioration of the conditions of working people unless you address that there is no way that you can even win an election now what Schumer is saying or said is that we have to do what Trump did in 2006 Steyn which by the way is what we you and I Don said is that the Trump strategy was a strategy that would or could win now we didn't know that he would but it could win the fact that he remained. Competitive with 110th of the money that Hillary had and none of the endorsements nothing from Wall Street nothing from the mass media antipathies matter of fact like them started by every day by the media absolutely and in one because even went to those states where the working class was in the greatest trouble and that was it and the fact that his people say well he won he didn't win the popular vote Well unfortunately we have a system which Aleck's president's not based upon the popular vote but and here is the positive side of the whole thing in the states that made it possible for him to Win the Working Class is in the deepest trouble and is most outraged and prepared for fundamental change. As it turns out Trump is not the fundamental change but he has opened the door to that fundamental change the failure of the left narrow only conceived or broadly can see is that it is too tied to the narrative of the neo liberal elite especially those that run the Democratic Party and the left has no future as long as it remains in one or another way tied to N.G.O.s or through money or foundations or just through intellectual and ideological laziness to the Democrats and to the neo liberal elites the left in this country has no future you know. This is the irony like drips from this stuff from Schumer right now because not only did Trump focus on those places where you know these the chunks of you know precarious workers. Were available and ended up being decisive Not only did he farm those places aggressively tuned what Clinton almost as aggressively ignored them were talking mention of a new Wisconsin in Michigan Sheen up we spent more time courting cosen voters they see did. In fact she she attacked them she Dimon eyes them as racists as as really scum and white trash Iridium. Yep that's that was her approach to them whereas Trump said I hear and I understand your pain I mean who you going to vote for right. That's right so I mean there was no alternative Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so so here we are now of course this brings up the question of the Green Party and its recent convention in Newark New Jersey. And what it's going to do going forward I think the brand was severely damage when Jill Stein joined the Russia gate. Thing right and you know got a lot of money for it but other than that the Green Party brand is in real trouble and at their convention there seems to be a deepening split along ideological and to a certain extent. Racial lines. Concerning. Who the Green Party should unite with and. You got to see 2 sides in this debate fundamental side one side is predisposed to go towards the burning rags which would take them back into the Democratic Party the other side is for going to the working class the working people and you 19 with them irrespective of how they voted in November or how they vote traditionally you 19 with them on the basis of working class issues like jobs like. A. Guaranteed Income like universal health care like infrastructure development and like peace so I would agree with the latter rather than what I think is the Jill Stein. Predisposition which is also the position of democratic socialist of America that we will take over the damage. Pratik party and the take over of the Democratic Party and I put that in quotes of policy which many greens I'm certain are are in favor of would then make the Green Party. Us a perfectly less and unnecessary. But then if you read a person like Bruce Dixon his argument is that he is fighting to turn a Green Party into a mass revolutionary or mass Radical Party now I think that is also a mistake I don't think it could happen given what the Green Party is and I'm not saying that the Green Party what it is is not a necessary a player but. You cannot turn a party a small party whose purpose was protest and. Protesting through its candidates the policies of the 2 major parties you keep and turn that into a revolutionary party of the people and. I'm sorry no no that's right because there's also as one of before we developed the further. We're talking about the you know the dichotomies that existed it you know here between this and this and this and this at and there's another split not just over whether look at class or you know or you know these other issues but. There's also one both a virtual and a material argument going on on the question of race the virtual one and this is what Bruce probes this this isn't the point of his article but it's pretty well developed that you eat just putting a black face that's unconnected it's not an organic like listening of someone from a community into a position but looking around the room and saying Ok there's a black eye Ok you're a leader of the car because and expecting that somehow that means black people appear behind him all of a sudden and working on a mission that you know actual black folks might put together for themselves as a program he said that's not what's happening and so there's a division between the people that want to portray things inside that paradigm and those that see the real problems with race there that we saw for example during Cynthia McKinney's campaign. No I agree I mean I see it but the Green Party like the political system as a whole is that a moment of truth. And everybody is trying to figure out how to move forward on you know Chuck Schumer and those of course in an opportunist way. And so the Green Party is trying to figure out how to go forward and that's a question of how it's going to be structured whether it be a loose coalition. And of local groups or whether it be a highly structured organized party. That looks something like a very rather radical revolutionary party. With forms of democratic centralism and membership dues and all of that. So it has to decide now with the ideological and raise questions and Bruce is absolutely right to raise this that. A black caucus is not a guarantor of real and significant black leadership arising out of that to the executive or steering committee the I think just to just into just you know in terms of that in the abstract what we're talking about in my opinion here is how the bulk of the movement really but the Green Party is going to relate to the question of race whether it's going to be in a material historical basis or if it's going to be in a within the realm of identity politics quote unquote absolutely I think you're absolutely right about that and. And how how leadership periods and a broadly conceived left party like the Green Party is chosen and leadership is very very important and it is not just as you just pointed out it's not just a matter of identity it is also a question of ideology politics and experience and really commitment in the field to whatever the Green Party is about so the Green Party is in a crisis. But I am of the opinion that more that a new party what we need is a new movement and in a certain sense Bruce Dixon was. Gesturing to the idea of more grassroots and local activism and out of that. You grow the Green Party I am thinking however that out of that you grow a movement of a new type a movement that. That has a program but that is and broadly conceived ideological positions but what which is anchored in to local struggles and local coalitions and local communities which is a wholly different thing then a party that really comes out every 4 years to run for president we need more than that we need a 365 day movement that is fighting on all kinds of issues that people are experiencing and I think a let me just end with this point I think that such a movement must target the main centers of population and financial and economic activity. Not exclusively but you have to have such a movement in a place like Philadelphia in a place like Chicago in a place like Birmingham Alabama and Gary and I mean the place like in Indiana these these central. Places of population but also places where the working people are suffering the greatest yeah yeah they're certainly going to be the most highly motivated. Pain a hell of a motivator right. We have I mean I was. On the point before and I want to distill even further we're talking about in the case of . 'd identity politics we're talking about either the substantive or the symbolic with identity politics being the symbolic the appointing this black person of this gay person this woman whatever into this position does not inherently mean that any other woman or black person or whatever is going to get a single benefit. Ok the there's an inference of that it's it's a symbol that the exclusion of those people as a class from much as a patient society is ending what the crack that allowed this one person to seep through but in fact it's not a substitute for material change where these distinctions no longer matter in terms of power we ain't there. And and so while the. You know the movement that you talk about is assembling a more enduring if we can look towards where are those folks the members of a standing right now how do they self identified does that matter you know if these 1000000 people they could tomorrow be behind a March for you know economic justice and peace if they consider themselves left all left right all right and whatever does that matter to their utility moving forward and their you know the ability of them zeven be integrated solidly into what comes next in a healthy way. Yeah I mean that's the question I mean the Democratic Corp the corporate Democrats don't understand that I don't know Bernie Sanders people fully understand what you're saying this is why they keep floating this thing of who's going to be their candidate in 2020 and now they're talking about this woman from California. And I guess the Bernie cracks of thinking about 9 attorney but. You know it's the old game of if you get the right personality you can. Build a coalition that can win an election a presidential election around that personality without demonstrating a true commitment to the the issues out of the working people but and if that's what the Democrats are thinking and it looks like that's what they are thinking they're going to lose in 2020 I mean they're talking about impeaching Trump That's not going to happen so the next best thing is to defeat him in 2020 I don't think that's going to happen. So if they if they continue along the lines that they're talking about so but then where does that put the people and the organizers and the mass movement and I think outside of the 2 parties and the electoral arena what we need is a 3rd force that unites people irrespective of how they have voted or and and a vote or whether they don't vote at all but I'm of the opinion that when you hit the working class and the poor the vast majority of them are not interested in either party they're interested in a movement that can clarify and give leadership to the issues that are affecting them and their children. And I'm calling it I'm calling it a 3rd force outside of the 2 parties that's not looking to 2020 but is looking to tomorrow and today and the day after tomorrow and what do you do what can you do for me and out of that things can happen in so create a win. We are transforming the political landscape and it's not going to be done through a quote new party or a more revolutionary green party or a or you know which I think is a full errand the d.s.a. Democratic Socialists of America or I combination of them and others taking over the Democratic Party that's not the way to go that's intellectual laziness that's a lack of political will political courage or of ideological clarity. The I mean that's a petty bourgeois approach to something absolutely absolutely and it's most prolific academics and. Those who who can't theorize as armchair revolutionaries and know nothing at all about the thinking and sentiments of people who are suffering under this regime of neo liberalism and war Yeah look I mean here's the question that seriously in the history of humanity is there anything that would give an indication that the ruling class of today which has complete control of the media have almost communication of the political party structures of both political parties is going to allow those instruments to run utilized to vote it out of power I don't think son. I don't think so and you know that's why we have to think anew and you know one of the things that you and you and I have discussed and I hope we can do it in the future is to talk about and think about how to think in this moment. You know and one you know we have been talking about this for some time. And in some ways not just critiquing but ridiculing the ways that so-called important thinkers have been thinking about a moment like this and one of the things that you and I have agreed upon is that people are thinking wrong. They're thinking about a moment of disintegration and crisis of a system as though we were in a period prior to this crisis right and it's all and I think we have to think about that because in thinking about how to think. We will also be able to think about how to come forward with a political strategy political tactics that fit this time in history you know this is I agree that that's exactly the locus of the problem and from that follows and this is something else that we've discussed. And it's not just that people think they're reliving 1932 or 1933 or even 1970 Ok Right it's also that they perceive and even conceive of the elements as being those of the 1930s for example the classes. And the relationship of the classes and the relationship of the class those classes to say the means of communication the means of production the nature of the global economy all the conditions are different even the players are different. And when you don't really mentally Derian resting on that you have fundamentally different so fundamentally do. And I don't know what people talk thinking about of talking about 1st of all there was one center of power in the world and that was your to your American world. And. Most of humanity was under one another form of colonialism was somebody colonialism and imperialism your American imperialism was the dominant system of course you had the Soviet Union but it was in a lot of ways alone and isolated as a single socialist country today you have the vast majority of the world. New 98 against the Euro American hedge a market and. And not just in 1000 statements but in actual building of new competing institutions such as the one belt one road project initiated by the Chinese or such as the Asia infrastructure bank or such as the bank or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization or Merck a sore or all on and on and on British fact bricked even you know the the concept the Geographic Geography of the world as imagined in the period of colonialism and imperialist had to Moni is different you know the concept the Middle East will soon be absent from our political discourse because the Middle East as it is now called will be defined as what it really is Western Asia or an appendage to north east Africa you know Europe will no longer be seen as a quote separate continent but will be seen here as a part of the Eurasian continent I mean you know we're in a fundamental transformation of the organization of humanity as such and hence Wimbledon from the age of Europe to the age of humanity. In fact I you know I would suggest that the idea of Europe will soon disappear from human thinking. As Europe becomes a part of humanity. I mean this is this is something so spectacular. Good morning you're listening to k.g. Anew Boulder Denver and Fort Collins current temperature along the front range is 64 degrees with a chance of thunderstorms after 11 am near 78 degrees Stay tuned for the b.b.c. News Hour on community Public Radio.