The which was something that Melville used a lot folks that's the program so sorry we're out of time read Moby Dick read why read Moby Dick and to be continued Thanks for listening. $100.00 points of the word. $100.00 points of the word. 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With the reclamation change in Western civilization Dr Steven Nichols joins us today right here on the Christian religion radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ I'm David Wheaton the host of the program and our Web site is the Christian worldview dot org You know it's been said that the Protestant Reformation not only altered the course of the Christian church but also the entirety of Western civilization including our American way of life today so how did an era that started 500 years ago and 1517 and lasted into the mid 16 hundreds have that much impact what were the conditions and the years and centuries prior that led to the Reformation in what made the leaders of the Reformation so bold in why are they ideas and doctrines they espoused so important for us in 21st century America. Dr Steven Nichols is our guest this weekend on a question or of you he will answer these questions then several more Dr Nicholls is the president of reformation Bible College the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries and the author of several books including The Reformation how a monk and a mallet changed the world Steve it's great to have you on the program for the 1st time and I often ask 1st time gas just tell us about your background how you became a follower of Christ and what you do now I'd be glad to take you for having me on the show my dad was a pastor so I grew up in the church and I remember every Sunday morning every Sunday night every Wednesday I was in church and it was a Bible preaching gospel believing church and I was just surrounded by the Gospel as it were from birth up and I was very grateful for that and very grateful for parents who love the Lord and saw to it that I was surrounded by these good things and so I remember very distinctly when I was just a young kid of recognizing that as one of my heroes has come to say. Jesus died that's history Jesus died for me that's doctrine and remembering that very distinctly just coming to grips with my self as a sinner and my separation from the holy God and my need for Christ and what he did for me and putting my face in Christ and coming to accept him as my Lord and Savior and. Very grateful for that that that was early on part of my life I want to address Mr Sumner in Philadelphia and just love the academic world I had some experience teaching undergrads and was was able to. To. Have a job I sure did my doctoral work at a college up in Pennsylvania called Lancaster Bible College and my wife and I recently spent 17 years there and was teaching their church history theology and then a few years got to know the folks down here in Ligonier and made some friendships with them and Dr scroll who founded live near ministries back in 2011 founded a Bible College and as I thought about some of my experience of those they looked at me just toughest might be a good fit to them so and 2014 we moved from Lancaster down to Orlando and able to serve as president here at reformation Bible college the college that r.c. Founded and also to serve the Ligonier ministries Ok let's get into our topic today which is how the Reformation changed not only the church a Western Civilization you know I think a lot of Christians. Understand Christian history up until the end of the 1st century and then all of a sudden from that time all the way up to let's say the Reformation started in $157.00 team there sort of this black hole nothing happened yeah tell us an overview of what took place in Christianity from the 2nd century to the start of the Reformation I know that's a question you could go on for an hour or so but just trying to give us an overview of what was taking place during that time period I think it's 2 key time periods you have the end of the 1st century when we're finished with the New Testament and we're moving from that era of Apostles into the church and the closing of the New Testament canon and the end of that so we so we ended with the 1st century and really on into the middle of the $400.00 so into the fist century and the collapse of Rome that's sort of the 1st phase of the church from. 10450 s and then there we see you know it starts off as a time of persecution we see this in the pages of The New Testament this is a time of martyrdom this is a time of the church being marginalized in Roman culture and where we we have these great stories of martyrs who come to us one of my favorites Polycarp and we even see martyrdoms of of women in the church the martyrdom of Perpetual is as a a story that was handed down to us through the ages so it's a time of martyrdom it's also a time this $150.00 of solidifying key doctrines and and really the attack comes with the doctrine of Christ we see this in the pages of The New Testament 1st John is talking about those false teachers who will deny that Jesus is come in the flesh and so it's do we should be surprised that in those early centuries the church is wrestling with this question of who is Christ and so we have a great I seem counsel in the Nicene Creed we have accosted only in council on the 407 the definition of couse And on that Jesus is truly God truly man and those 2 natures are can joined in one person is very crucial to get Christ right you know because that's the center of the gospel so those are some of the things in the early church then you go from the 4 fifties up to the 1500 and we call this the Middle Ages we called it the Dark Ages and the big key here is Christendom and this is the growth of the Roman Catholic Church I'm a Protestant so I do not believe that the Roman Catholic Church can trace its pope's back to Peter I think the papacy really originates in the $506.00 hundreds and it becomes a dominant factor in church history and the shadow of the Roman Catholic Church then of course is the Catholic Church dominates this time period now there are certainly bright spots there are people like Tom Thomas Aquinas there's. And sound we get closer to the Reformation there strong Wycliffe That was John Haas prog So you know we have these really. Folks who are clear standing for the Gospel and and pointing people to the truth is a vital but it is also a time of spiritual darkness and a time of corruption and so so we look at the Middle Ages we have to see to this these bright spots but we also have to see where the wheels are falling off the wagon here and the institutional church Dr Stephen Nichols with us today on the Christian real view of the president of reformation Bible College and also the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries He's also been a professor of historical theology and written many books we'll get to some of those today so during this time of the Middle Ages are sometimes known as the Dark Ages were there other churches outside the Roman Catholic Church or were believers within the Roman Catholic Church someone like Mark Martin Luther who was a monk who came out a Roman Catholic Church where were the true remnant Salan believers during this time you know the really only is one church it is the Roman Catholic church so the options are Islam is on the rise after that of course and then you have to pay again religions so you know the Druids are the Celtic sort of pagan religions and you do have some syncretism with the pagan religions and Catholicism but the only church in town up until the Protestant Reformation is the Roman Catholic Church and what you find within it is the remnant and you know we see this even in the Old Testament you know we see examples of Alija you know I'm the only one and God has to show had no you're not the only one and so while it is a kind of spiritual darkness we have to wreck. Nice God has always preserved his church there's always been a remnant of a witness and as wrong in the Roman Catholic Church was in the Middle Ages and he ingredients were there for the Gospel to be proclaimed. And so while we have to see it for what it is we also have to recognize that it was that true church that it never it never took a hiatus and went into hibernation for a few centuries Dr Stephen Nichols with us today in the Christian world view you were part of a documentary that's coming out later this year in October of 2017 and along with there and Steve Lawson the preacher and President one passion ministries had this to say in that documentary of you comment he had no idea that he was striking the match that with a light at Western civilization he said that about Martin Luther that he was striking a match in 1517 when he posted his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg Germany What were the conditions going on in the early 15 hundreds if we've come up to this time now that made their reformation so easily to be lighted at that particular time for this to disk all across Europe and really even come over to the new world eventually Well 1st of all I think I think Dr Lawson exactly right I don't think Luther was fully aware very quickly he became aware of the consequences of his action but I don't think he was aware at the time of of where this was going to go you know I knew this example of a painting it's like a painting done in $1516.00 and it I mention this in that documentary that you're referring to and it was a painting called The Hey Wayne triptych so he waited in the hay wagon and the triptych is like a 3 panel painting and this was. Done in 1516 so this is the year before loser pose the 95 theses and if your listeners can just Google this painting and look it up and it's very revealing to me in this huge oversized a bale of hay on a blag it in the center of the painting and all around it right up against it you have sort of the keys you have to go hierarchy and they're sort of the fat cats so to speak. And then you have the masses of people who are sort of distance from the hay sort of kept at a distance and and they're sort of painted in dark hues and so you get the sense that they're sort of oppressed and kept kept the down. And on the top of the hay wagon on the hay bale is an angel and the angel is pointing up to Christ and at the top of the painting is Christ and nobody's looking up. And as I as I don't attempt painting I think this really depicts well. What's happening on the eve of the Reformation and you know we go down to Geneva Geneva's motto was post 10 of Ross looks after darkness light. Well that means they're starkness and there was a moral darkness there was a moral decadence in the culture that that was a symptom of what was ultimately a spiritual darkness and here's the church and the Hate to me is a metaphor so here's the church that has access to the hate and instead of hoarding it it should be you know giving it out freely to the masses and here's the church that really should be pointing to people to Christ because the ultimate solution to all of these issues and they're not doing it they're not even paying attention to him and so the church abdicated its role as the church that's where we find ourselves in 1516 and what Luther is doing in 1517 when he posts his 95 theses he's calling on his church to be the church he's calling on his church to get back to its task and its vocation of proclaiming the gospel and it has lost its way and we're going to see this flame now is going to burst forth into this new reformation if the churches uncle anything to do with him for they're going to communicate and condemn him as a heretic. Dr Stephen Nichols with us today in a Christian real view the president of reformation of Bible College and we're talking about how the Reformation not just the search of Western civilization much more to come across in real view coming up I'm David we. The Christian worldview fall conference is coming up soon on Friday evening September 15th and Saturday morning September 16th in the chapel at Grace Church in Eden Prairie Minnesota there are 2 compelling themes this year world events Islam and the clash of civilizations and the Reformation justification and the authority of scripture. Political analyst Soren current Pastor Troy and David we will be the speakers there will also be a live radio broadcast and special music Friday evening dessert Saturday morning breakfast and a preconference speaker reception are also available you are encouraged to come and bring others to registration is not required for the conference but doing so by Tuesday September 5th guarantees you a seat discounted hotel rates are available details and registration. World View dot org or call one triple 86462233. Mike Gendron former Roman Catholic and founder of proclaiming the gospel was recently on the program to discuss his d.v.d. Why are evangelicals reversing the Reformation Here's a clip where he details 7 differences between Catholics and evangelicals 1st and foremost we have a different authority we read and study a different Bible we worship and trust a different Jesus we believe a different gospel we have a different order of salvation a different view of justification we have a different path to eternity these are critical differences for a limited time we are offering the d.v.d. Which contains 2 messages for a donation of any amount normal retail is $15.00 not including shipping to order go to the Christian worldview dot org or call one triple 86462233 or write to box 401 Excelsior Minnesota 55331100 points of the word pair but it might pose a risk or chose comment out this Saturday August 12th I'm going to be in studio but I'm going to be talking about the upcoming taste of Douglas County it's coming up on Thursday August 16th this is the 15th year theists is one of the great food festivals of the front range information is that taste of Douglas County dot com If you say Well Mike we live in El Paso county we live in the Pike's Peak region why would we want to come up to Castro because you can enjoy such local favorites as Chicago pizza and taproom the airplane restaurant will be there Dave Weber from Colorado colonels gourmet popcorn put a bunch of restaurants all up and down the front range tickets Corney dollars at the door but only $10.00 in advance and you can pick them up at l n l why and barbecue $5050.00 barge Barnes and powers to make plans to join me make plans to attend you will have a ball at the 15th annual Taste of Douglas County coming up on Thursday August 17th for me might boil. In the restaurant shut. The record mation changed the church and Western civilization that is our topic today right here on the Christian real view radio program David week in the house Thanks for joining us we have one of the best guests on this topic today Dr Stephen Nicholls He's the president of reformation Bible College also the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries and the author of many books also the host of a pod cast 5 minutes in church history and look that up if you want to hear of afterthought cast Let's get back to the interview with Dr Nichols in that documentary Barry Cooper who's an author and speaker talked about some of the things that happened as a result of Luther posting these 95 theses and he played the audio of that lets you comment. This was the man back going to use to recapture the gospel. Game restored the Word of God the Bible to the center of Christian life and worship in reestablish the importance of family the value of music the dignity of human labor but most significantly of all every call that the truth about a person's justification and they always have gone comes by grace a line or face a life. From the Luther documentary guess coming out later this year talk about Steve some of the important points of those 95 theses because Luther doctrinally I don't think you'd say he got everything right but there are many things that he was getting right right there from the start the Reformation. Yeah right and you know we need to really look at like 17 truth that's 221 foundational moment in his life and. See that hope. Take so if we go to the 95 theses he's knocking on the door but he's not entirely there at that moment but there's some crucial points he's saying one point in the theses he says that the church is true treasure is the gospel of Jesus Christ this of course is a direct attack on the indulgence of the system where you could literally here's the problem it's been the perennial problem we have only God and we are a sinful person people and there is a separation between a sinful people and a holy God And so one of the things the church was saying by this indulgence literally put money in the Kafir we will hinge you a piece of paper and that indulgence now wipes out your sins and you are no longer separated from the holy God. That troubled Luther he knew that based on God's righteousness and God's holiness you can buy your way of the heaven so he's he says in there the church is true treasure is the gospel of Jesus Christ and at the end of the 95 theses he says something very interesting he quotes from Isaiah the prophet and he says away with the false prophets who say peace peace and there is no peace so it's what the indulgence hawkers were doing by this indulgence you'll have peace and no you won't is what we are saying instead he says we instead we say cross cross and there is no cross so when leaders trying to say in that any developed of us more fully in the next couple of years it is we look to the cross and there we recognize that there is no cross for us because Christ did what we could not do and bearing the penalty of scent and so when we say that's how they should is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone we are saying cross the cross and there is no cross. For us to bear because Christ bore it for us so that gospel and enter of what Luther was doing but Ellsbury point out Rachael we don't like spokes on a wheel now you know we're going to talk about reforming the church service with the trial of the preaching we're going to talk about when you look at this which why John how it's one of the reasons why John Haas was martyred in 1415 because he promoted congregational thinking. And so something can be reformed the family. Especially because priests are non I want to see a priest more spiritual. Luther come along and. Elevate the family the dignity of work through Luther's rediscovery of the doctrine of vocation I mean really from an entrepreneur gospel just springs for all of these glory to mention. Both doctrine but also of life yeah and he had discovered all these through reading the Bible himself I'm assuming which is something that the common people could not do at that time because he was a monk in the church he had access to the Scriptures the outside world did not and so he started to read these and compare what the Bible was saying compared to what the church was was teaching and that brings us to our next soundbite from the documentary by Steve Lawson again about the other big issue that came out of the Reformation in addition to the one you just mentioned justification by faith alone through God's grace alone from Christ alone is the issue of Thora here Steve Lawson on that and no longer now which human tradition an ecclesiastical councils and even the Pope himself being the authority in the church the highest arbitrator in the church would now be that says the Lord as it was. Hearted and the cannon of ribs very. Ok against even Lawson from that Luthor documentary basically the issue is authority or who has already to say what is the one doctrine is it the Roman Catholic Church the papacy the Pope or is scripture alone the foundation for authority Stephen why is that such a fundamental and important debate and actually just as relevant today as ever it really is the starting point the reformers spoke of what they called the formal principle of the Reformation and then the Cheerio principle of the Reformation so the formal principle is that question of authority so as we approach this question of how the sinful people relate to a holy God which is ultimately humanity's problem you know we talk about economics we can talk about social marginalization we talk about all those things. There's humanity's big problem we are under the wrath of God So how are we going to solve this. Do we do it through human reason do we do it through medical technology do we do it through all these things or do we have an authority that lays out for us the solution to this problem and what happened in the Middle Ages was the church was the authority you mentioned people were illiterate we had 90 high ninety's percent of an illiterate culture and so the church literally had a lock on learning and a lock on this question of authority the reformers come along and say our authority is x. Terminal to us it is God's word over us one of the reformers you know if you say that says the Lord in Latin that's 2 words don't mean he's Dixit and say one of the reformers is going to come along and say these are the only 2 words you need to go . Don't notice except the says the Lord right. That's formal principle from the formal principle we've learned the matter at hand or what is the center of the issue that's the material principle and that's just a vacation by faith alone but it's it's really both of those twin principles that are the hallmark of the Reformation now you have asked for to the 21st century we have all sorts of challenges to the Word of God I think we have the Darwinian challenge that says oh no Genesis 123 that's not the origins of humanity it's this process scientific evolution we have the social scientists even challenging gender right gender is a social construct and then we have Genesis $1.00 and $2.00 that that say male and female created He them so we're constantly surrounded by voices who are telling us you know I'm the authority over here in the hard sciences or I'm the authority here with my political power or I'm the authority here and this is a challenge for Christians of every age to say what is our 40 and where are we going to stand what is going to be the basis of how we live in this world and how we understand our place of this world that's what sola scriptura scripture alone alternately says and was true in 16th century it's true in the 21st century and it absolutely is thanks for explaining that Dr Stephen Nichols with us today in the Christian real of you the president of reformation Bible College and also the chief academic officer for the going here ministries their website Ligonier dot org Also he's the host of a pod cast called the 5 minutes in church history and you can search for that on line and find that podcast Let's go to some of the criticisms of Luther Carl Truman who is also in that film documentary Luther coming out later this year he's a college room and is a professor of. History at Westminster seminary he had this to say about Martin Luther. This was a bull headed man who was capable of moments of Supremes self-confidence when he knew it was right and he was going to move ahead like a bull in a china shop the problem with that kind of person on the other is when they get hold of the wrong end of an argument it's when they go off in the wrong direction of the damage to be a spectacular as the great news was spectacular Ok so some of the things we will hear about Martin Luther contrary to the fact that mushy it was the person who really started the reformation of 1517 as you'd already discussed but you hear things like well she brought some of the regs over from the Roman Catholic Church like with regards to the Eucharist or communion whether was transubstantiation or concepts stand she asian maybe you could define nose or infant baptism as resulting in regeneration correct me if I'm wrong Steve or or even some of his purported writings where there are some anti-Semitic remarks so either correct or comments on some of these negative criticisms of Luther and how we should process that about him for as important work he did considering that maybe everything he did wasn't biblically sound. Ok Dr Steven Nichols will answer that question after this next break on the Christian a real view in just a reminder our topic today how the Reformation changed the church in Western civilization in light of the 500 anniversary of the Reformation is going to be one of the themes that our Fall Conference as Friday evening September 15th Saturday morning September 16th a gracious church in the chapel here in Eden Prairie Minnesota you can find out all about it by going to our website the Christian worldview dot org giving us a call at our office that one ship late 646-2233. 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So our 2 themes are world events Islam the clash of civilizations and also the Reformation and justification of the authority of scripture and that's the topic we are discussing today with Dr Stephen Nichols the president of reformation Bible College and let's get straight back to that interview either correct or comment on some of these negative criticisms of Luther and how we should process that about him further as important work he did considering that maybe everything he did wasn't big Oakley sound I think your accumulation of the 3 challenges there really do help us understand the sort of flaws of the man so just to practice it I like to speak of Luther as having laid of iron feet of clay we need to recognize that the least rich history figures are not perfect just like our good look will figures they come to us with their flaws so nobody benefits by white washing them and and ignoring their flaws and we need to recognize them and and also you know he cares to look at what are the blind spots in our thinking in our living and so we don't. 1st too did he bring over too much from Roman Catholicism his view on the Lord's Supper So Lou through the you was that the elements did not become whether it was the body the bread becomes the body of Christ and the cup becomes the blood of Christ that's called trans substantiation that's the Roman Catholic view the substance crosses or trans goes over so the bread becomes the body Luther rejected that as did the other reformers and step Luther's view was Jesus was with the elements so he would say he was above and below and around now he did not like the expression concepts stand she ation because he thought that was that Aristotelian term subs substantiation and he didn't like Aristotle and so he called it the Real Presence of you then Christ is physically present with the Lord's Supper Calvin is going to come along and disagree with that and he's going to promote what's called the spiritual presence and or excitingly the reform or at Zurich is going to come along present a view altogether different called the memorial view these things are in remembrance of Christ so they are symbols of his body and symbol a symbol of his body and a symbol of his blood. So Luther is you can see him in that to me becomes symptomatic of Luther breaking from the Roman Catholic Church but you still see some flaws and some of his thinking and I think you look to some of the other reformers and it's true of all of us right we stand on someone shoulders and then someone stands on our shoulders and I think that's what we see there in terms of baptism. To quote that gets people so nice or it would often feel the struggles so intense that he would feels a fate more personified in the room with him sometimes. The struggles that fixer would have and battle I just felt locked in a spiritual battle and he would say things like when the devil comes to me I say to him I have my baptism and you think well I'd rather him say I have my conversion. And my salvation what he's saying is I was helpless and the baptism was a symbol of my helplessness and so it's not me it's Christ and it's God. I think what happens though very quickly and Lutheranism because I think Luther is very clear I don't think he is a proponent of what we call baptismal regeneration he's very clear of the need for justification I think though because of some of the things he says about baptism and very quickly the Lutheran Church very very quickly goes into baptismal regeneration and if you talk to mostly 3 and today they hold to that dismal regeneration and that's that's a flaw that's a that's a that's not the gospel and then the big one of course is the anti-Semitism and I think for Luther we can excuse him he said very harsh things about the Jews now he also said harsh things about Germans and he said harsh things about Catholics and he said harsh things about Turks Muslims so we could say he was an equal opportunity offender. But again it comes under that category of he was wrong and we can understand him in his context but we can't give him a pass for these flaws in his character Dr Steven Nichols with us today in a Christian real View talking about how the Reformation changed not only the church but Western Civilization Now let's get into that aspect of it how it did change Western civilization this I have one more sound bite to play from that documentary and it's by someone well it's by you and let me just play what you said there have you comment in many ways it was the beginning of the modern world. Or something to that singular moment of the posting of the 95 that not only changed church history this changed world history for the centuries. Ok see that's quite a big statement to say that this not only changed the Reformation now it changed church history but world history western civilization in what ways specifically has that at that occurred I think we can see it and about 4 different ways so the 1st is this goes along with the rise of the modern nation state so you had the Holy Roman Empire and it was a common language Latin nobody was writing in German when Luther sits down and writes and translates the New Testament from the Greek into the German He's actually becoming the father of the German language and how crucial it is for a nation's identity to have their language identity and you can begin to see that as the Reformation began to make its challenge to the church not only do we have the breakdown of the church in the rise of Protestantism we also have the breakdown of the Holy Roman Empire and we begin to see the rise of the modern nation state and I you know it's maybe it's a chicken and egg question that the Reformation was a piece of that I think the 2nd area is in the family and especially even in the view of women you know prior to the Reformation there were no laws against wife beating wives were basically considered property and inheritance laws favored sons for instance over wives and so you have many widows who are just simply destitute and sort of cut off from any help whatsoever because of the inheritance loss and so the reformers come along and for the 1st time in Western history in the city of Geneva there is a law against wife beating and they begin to look at the inheritance laws to protect the widow and the wife so we begin to see. This and families in the way the reformers elevated the institution of marriage was significant we see it in terms of work in a work ethic and so because of the cation it's not just church work it's for the glory of God and part of the Reformation a vocation was reserved for the monks the nuns the priests who comes along and says you can be a peasant farmer that's your vocation cows and says you can be a pot washer that's your vocation and being a father and a child or a spouse those are calling right so so now we're giving meaning to life and work and that's going now I'm doing my work as the Bible says as unto the Lord that's going to result in a work ethic. And many have said this is the root of capitalism. The thesis that's called the Viber Tahnee thesis that the Reformation was at the root of the rise of capitalism and then the 4th area is in terms of the state and I see this especially in cow than that I see it in the Scottish reformers and then you see it as the Scottish reformers and the British Reformation had its impact on America and you see it in our Constitution and you see it in our system of government that the fingerprint is all through those documents and our institutions of the doctrines of the reformers and terms of the depravity of of humanity and so we need checks and balances but also that there are certain and alienable rights and out by our creator right. These are crucial pieces to western civilization and to our nation and you can trace their roots back to the reformers and the 16th century very interesting how that era and these reformers really did knowledge change the church and doctrines and so forth. It changed to western civilization and the country in which we live right now which was founded by so many of our founders who were influenced by the Reformation thinking Dr Stephen Nichols with us today on the Christian world view just the last couple questions for you have these key debates of the Reformation whether as justification by faith alone the authority of scripture some of the things you talked about that were important to Western civilization with regard to the state the family work other things have these been do you think mostly forgotten or neglected in 21st century America in if so why Ok Stephen Nichols will answer that question after this final break of the day the question a real view I hope you're enjoying this interview he's saying a lot and he has a wealth of information the Reformation in how it impacted the church in Western civilization and again this is one of our themes of our Fall Conference of temper 15th and 16th Troy Dobbs a pastor senior pastor of Grace Church and I will each be giving a message on the Reformation I'll be speaking on the reformation of the authority of scripture in Pastor Troy speaking on the Reformation and justification and that's a kind of pulling out a couple of the points that Stephen's talked about today and going diving little more deeply into those and of course there are other speakers Soren current of the gates don't in-situ will talk about events going on in the world with especially with regard to Islam in Europe in America and our current events and we hope you can come. You can find out more in the Christian worldview or gets you can come for a donation of any amount we're looking forward to a great conference or you can give us a call in our office one triple 86462233 Stay tuned we have one more segment coming up with Dr Steven Nichols rare for this. Christian worldview conference is coming up soon on Friday September 15th and Saturday morning September 16th in the chapel at Grace Church in Minnesota there are 2 compelling themes this year. And the clash of civilisations and the Reformation justification of scripture. Political analyst. Pastor Troy. Will be the speakers there will also be a live radio broadcast and special music Friday evening Saturday morning breakfast and a preconference speaker reception are also available. To come and bring others to registration is not required for the conference but doing so by Tuesday September 5th guarantees you a seat discounted hotel rates are available details. Or call 186-462-2331 extension 00 points. 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We're glad you joined us today here on the 1st in a real view radio program where our motto is to think Biblically and live accordingly today our topic is how the Reformation changed the church in Western civilization our guest is Dr Stephen Nicholls the president of reformation Bible College and also the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries and by the way you can go to our website the Christian real view dot org to go to the links and find out more about our guests and topics in your past already at any time if you missed any of the audio today of the interview we have one more segment laugh if you missed any of it always go to the Christian real view dot org to find out more let's get back to the last segment with Dr Stephen Nichols have these key debates of the Reformation whether it's justification by faith alone the authority of scripture some of the things you talked about that were important to Western civilization with regard to the state the family work other things have these been do you think mostly forgotten or neglected in 21st century America and if so why. You know one of the last sermon or preaching of that in Burke he did know was of course. He's going to fall ill and die in February but in January preaches one of the last sermons. And in it he basically track people for turning their back on the Gospel and they're sort of hedging their bets you know there were so used to the old way that they were going back to the images. Relic and. One point you're trying thing in the pope's 2nd hand junk you know these relics for your salvation and you're turning your back on the Gospel. That's Luther's own conquered. Within Luther's own lifetime and the moral of the story of this every generation needs a reformation. It's so easy for us to get sidetracked and think that here in the and 2017 we know more about life with the writers of the Old Testament and the writers of the New Testament in the 1st century so does the Bible really have the answers or can they be found in the modern world and that's a real question and. You know we want to we want to submit Scripture to our sensibilities we don't like this sort of vengeful God doesn't quite wash with our modern sensibilities so we begin to be suspicious of the Bible we still on earth but we don't submit to it I think that's a challenge for all of us almost on a daily basis. And there's just something about the doctrine of justification you know it sort of trips us up you read the New Testament and we find that Christ is us dumpling stand on. His stumbling stone because he points out our inability to save ourselves. Luther is going to say or said rather that the cross is God's no to sinful humanity and what he means by that is the Cross says no to human ability. So he quickly says the cross is also yes to humanity and it's in the cross of Christ work that God accept us and that 1st part it's hard for us because we have to be confronted with our own sinfulness . And not only that but our own inability to do anything about it. And after difficult I mean we do great things right we build super highways and we fly across the Atlantic in a few hours and we build skyscrapers it's hard for us to come to grips with our inability but that's what the Gospel almost Yeah it's down but in the Gospel and the beauty of what was there is that. The gentle shepherd who who left the little lamb to lift them up and hold them close to his bosom to create a little language of recognizing our inability and accepting of us in what Christ has done as we put our faith and a lot yeah thanks for explaining that in terms of just how important it is to be reminded of what the gospel is and what it's not as well and how we need to be reminded that in every generation last question for you Steve you look at the lives of some of the key figures in the Reformation whether it's Martin Luther or John Calvin John Knox many others you could list in these are very bold courageous outspoken people they saw something wrong they said it they thought the Bible totters certain way they said it are Christians in America preachers and those who have a voice or just maybe just even in general don't need to be a leader or we bold enough today in in being forthright about what thus saith the Lord you know David I think you are you're spot on here and this to me is the critical issue it was just kind of the reformers are saying the right doctor and it was the boldness with which they proclaimed them and I think that is law in our church there's a lot of compromise. So that we can get along with culture there's a lot of accommodation culture and accommodating Christianity culture so we don't want to offend Luther said the Christian is one who makes assertions. And the Bible makes assertions and that's that's just not culturally palatable it's not culturally palatable to say that Jesus Christ is the only way of salvation and outside of Him There is no hope that's just that's so so arrogant but that's the gospel and I think we really do need to recapture not just the formal in the material principle of the authority of scripture and justification by faith alone we need that boldness of the reformers my colleague here at Ligonier Chris Larsen likes to say The future belongs to Christians of conviction. And standing on those convictions and I think he's right well Steve I want to thank you for coming on the program today you had a lot of things that have I think made me think I'm sure a lot of people listening today as well thank you for just giving us a great history lesson on the time leading up to the Reformation and then the key doctrines that were debated and really what the relevance is for us today and what our call is as believers today and we thank you for that and we just wish all of God's best and Grace to you and your work with Megan here that's very kind of you it's my pleasure thank you Dave. That was Dr Stephen McNichols the president Reformation Bible College and our interview today on the Christian real view again if you missed any of it just go to our website the Christian real view dot org And his closing remarks about boldness the passage that the Apostles Paul wrote to the field he said pray on my behalf that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel for which I'm an ambassador and change that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly as they ought to speak and that is a great admonition for us today as we look at 3 formers and see how bold they were Thanks for joining us today in the Christian real view again look into our fall advancer September advanced the Fall Conference of temper 15th and 16 also will forget about the Gulf and dinner advance on Monday September 18th is going to be a great weekend we're looking forward to it please be praying for that weekend for us as well as we prepare for that and we do live in a changing in challenging world but there is one thing we can always trust in encountering Jesus Christ and His word they are the same yesterday today and forever. We hope today's broadcast turns your heart toward God His Word and His Son to water a cd copy of today's program or sign up for our free weekly mail order find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ go to our website the Christian worldview dot or call us toll free one Tripoli 646-2233 the Christian worldview was a weekly one hour radio program that is furnished by the overcomer foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount go to the Christian world view dot org or call us toll free at one triple 86462233 or write to us at Box 401 Excelsior Minnesota 55331 that's box 401 Excelsior Minnesota 50331 thanks for listening to the Christian worldview until next time think Biblically and live accordingly 100 points the word in today's broken world we all need a chance to be restored refreshed and strengthened join us on Sunday mornings at 8 30 am for the gift of grace radio ministry gifts of grace gives you a chance to hear the truth of God's Word for your life no matter where you are or what you're doing to prepare for your week ahead gift of grace Sunday mornings at 8 30 am a chance to be restored refreshed and strengthened in God's word this gift brought to you by a manual Lutheran Church Colorado Springs. 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