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Unique situation and we're talking a little bit about the idea of sort of battlefield spirituality the unique things that can sometimes happen out on the battlefield and I want to get to more of those stories too just a moment but in particular a couple more of those heroes that we're just finding about you know for the 1st time really to a mass audience next on coast to coast am this is the about it. If you need anything from a simple home repair to a major remodel you need to know about Home Advisor it's a totally free service that instantly connects you with top local service from us. 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On line except most transfer credits for information tax now 235517 learn for yourself why The Wall Street Journal ranks and 5th in the nation for producing the best qualified graduates and white 87 percent of a.s.u. Grads are recruited within 90 days of graduation learn to grow learn to succeed and learn to thrive at Arizona State University to learn more about a.s.u. Online degrees taxed now 235517 that's n l w 235517. So talking with the author of soldiers of a different cloth John walk of it's is. As another book coming out 2 coming up in in August will we may be talking about 2 which is also about the story of the last 4 people who died in combat during World War 2 But this is from but Notre Dame chaplains in World War 2 and we were just talking about how one of the 1st chaplains in service because he was happy to be already at Parkfield and in the Philippines ends up being captured so what happened with Father Duffy once he was taken prisoner. Here father Duffy 5 or more was with was the troops fighting the Japanese as they advanced them took over the Philippines then when the surrender of her in April of 42 he was with those forces that had the surrender he was then involved in what's known as the Battan death March which was when the Japanese certainly the casket was one of the prisoners and basically walked 65 miles to a prison camp well along the way there was all kinds of. Calamity all kinds of horrors done abanet in and men being killed in different ways and they were there I would say had not been fed by shoulder the previous 34 months of combat they had very little food to begin with and now they're trying to walk under the hot sun without food without water some are wounded and saw men might fall along the way and be a band aid it as a result of Father Duffy was on that he was having a tough go of it was he was a little bit older than some of the others and. One Japanese guard that they nicknamed the shadow sort of for whatever reason picked on Father Duffy And he would just sort of pot him prod him with the tips of his band and so on while Protestant minister the Reverend Taylor was with Father Duffy And he he gave me courage and come on take one more step come on Duff we're going to get there going on and he really was a great source of inspiration to Father Duffy Well one point in the down the trail the death March followed them through slumped over in the shadow came up and bayoneted him 23 times and left them for dead the column of prisoners kept walking by they had to say to keep on the Japanese guards would deliver them so they walked by. Well as father of the Reverend Taylor was walking away he turned back and notice I'm still a candle civilians and father Duffy is what he thought was bothered about his body and taken him into the jungle or father Duffy was so alive and to nurse them back to health for a few months fathered work to a sick guerrilla forces in the Manila area until he was again captured and that started his. Basis for the rest of the war he was in various prison camps in the Philippines and then in Japan and in Manchuria was in Manchuria must end when the war ended so he spent the rest of the war as a captive and enduring all the horrors and the hardships and lack of food and medicine that we've all heard of or read about and. The experience certain ended up changing him in his mind for the better. Because before the war he was the top chaplain in the Philippines he'd served with Douglas MacArthur and general Wainwright and all the other top officers after the war he just wanted to when he got back home to the Florida diocese some give me a small parish in the middle of Ohio he wanted some peace and quiet and. That was a direct result of what he had gone through during the war and how many returning soldiers said the exact same thing just give me a little plot of land somewhere to want to write 3. Little thing I can bring in the crops and just write a little piece you know I think that's. So I. Mentioned that I dunce and studying on the chaplaincy I'll tell you what I'll do it the at the very tail end and we're going to talk a little bit more this ourselves and then we're going to will go to the phones coming up we'll take some calls and I'm sort of inspired to play something for you I hope you enjoy it it's never aired it's never been broadcast anywhere but I created something by commission about 6 years ago. A nationally syndicated Holiday Special had asked for a. Piece about the contribution of chaplaincy and the and the sacrifice that chaplains made for an annual holiday thing they played on Thanksgiving and Christmas so I made it for them even though at the time I was just packing up to go. Back to school and I didn't much time but I think I did it it was really interesting and I did a lot of research quickly and I found many people that were able to talk to some particular 2 particular priests So I think that's why I think you'd find it interesting both of these. In the in the piece I think turned out to be Catholic priests. But it never aired they had they changed their mind I forgot what it was but they then they wanted me to make some changes and at that point I was already gone and I was already off to school and so it I don't I don't think it ever aired but it's been sitting in my laptop ever since and I'll save that will save about 10 minutes to go at the end of the show and I'll play it there so it doesn't interfere with anything that we're doing but it's part of that what informs me about that is that that unique capacity that chaplains have where they are they end up being just as you describe they end up becoming just by their casual resistance or their persistence and the way in which they try to work with their captors they end up becoming role models and end up providing great Him and great amount of peace just by their example to the people with whom they're imprisoned. You know in many ways I mean he can. Like a lifeline to every scene back home right Representative the tranquillity right back home of the family normalcy you know those young kids were thrust into just a nightmare of conditions and then you know it's a new young you yourself know how young they can be 1819 years old at the start a high school and and they're facing things that they never thought they would and pouncer Well they could turn to the chaplain for a little peace calmness and Ok Back home I go to Mass on Sunday so when I go to mass now with the chaplain even if it's in a field or in a cage was when Father Barry celebrated mass in a cave one tank at least I can think for one hour right or half hour or whatever I'm home I was safe you know it was a great source of Halmos and peace to the soldiers and so that was a major contribution made by his chaplains and I think but even to the oppose even to their captors that chaplains were kind of they they were on their best behavior and they were trying and they were often you know they were able to make connections with the very same people they were loving their enemies which is you know what they're called to do and and that's where you know as you mentioned that one particular. You know Japanese guard so brutal was he that you know that he be an aide bayoneted the priest but the other the other guards weren't like that and that's one of the one of the reasons why he stood out is that he was particularly pretty and he had focused on this particular priest chaplain as opposed to the other guards and I think that's where so many of these stories I hear about about the role of the chaplain in the concentration camps is just to try to find some way to sort of bring down the tension and to increase the humanity. Yeah that's that's why and in training camp chaplains are trying to organize a lot of. Women call variety shows you know share music and poetry and skits and saying alongst things like that. To China get their mind off from their conditions and just have a little bit of fun so it's happened became a jack of all trades in a way you were not just a priest or minister but we've mentioned a counsellor he was a social captain of sorts the that he was a man that anyone having troubles and prison camp would go to to confide in and so perform multiple duties and at the same time while he was there for everybody else and serve such a valuable role it struck me that who was there for the chaplain who could he turn to. When he needed some help when every chaplain. Would have faced some crisis or moment of crisis along the way or have some doubts and yet all they can do is talk to all the chaplains but they in combat their units to go their own ways and so they often had very sparse opportunity to talk to people who truly understand what they're gone for. You know down even though it's may not be part of the book and I confess not reading every page but I read a lot of it I didn't see it I should've looked in the index to see whether you covered the story of the Catholic contribution to the 4 chaplains The famous for chaplains story. In this book strictly is another name chaplains in World War 2 So I did not cover that the term types or what I'm talking about. You know the story I'm talking about I do yeah so this happens in the Navy Yeah it's on the s.s. Dorchester that in 1983 and they they helped the other soldiers get on lifeboats they gave up their own life jackets when the supply ran out and in the end these 4 chaplains one of which I think was Dutch reform the other was a Methodist there was a rabbi and then there was a Roman Catholic priest and they all joined arms locked arms together and went down together ship sank as they say you know it's remarkable father Father carob area another student another name Chapman who was in the Philippines and was with Father Duffy's in. Times in different prison camps right he made a decision somewhat like that he was in devolved penal colony in southern Philippines and chaplain and 10 other American soldiers who were in prison camp came up to Father Carberry and said You know Father we're going to escape and we really think it helps to have a Catholic chaplain with us because of Filipino civilians were largely kept at that time of the nice I did come in handy. And find a car very small badly wanted to go with them you know that's right she has been 143 this was my chance to escape this were the horror that I am in well he weighed it and went back and forth and then decided no my duty was to stay here in prison camp Well those 10 men scapes and friendly so Filipino civilians help them when they got to a submarine and made it back to the United States and were a claymore here almost father Carberry stayed in prison camp he eventually in late 1944 in December was put on what were called the hell ships how the hell ships were transports that the Japanese used it at stage of the war to take prisoners of war in the Philippines. To Japan or banking and to other cast they wanted to get him out of the way because Douglas MacArthur had invaded the Philippines and and the American forces were drawing closer wells on the health ship and father does He was with him. Father Carberry died from weakened the conditions he just could not last as he died father Duffy The other night or dame chaplain administered lacerates But here he and Father Kerry say no I'm going to stay right if he is here but these people in prison camp and he ends up the result is that he died never made it back so yeah those examples before chaplains are talking about amazing stories. It inspires us all I guess. You know to be better people to do what we really should and do it well and I think that was one of the nice things that I took away from all of this research these men and those 2 nuns were such such stellar images and they just pressed me Well let let's talk about the nuns and then I have a question I'll circle back to from what you just said but we mentioned a few times so I want to make sure that we don't pass over them because as you said it's it's men mostly but there were some women that served in that capacity to so let's talk about them. Yes we had to know at Notre Dame Durden isn't and wasn't and that time an off male school directly across the street is St Mary's University and all seen the Elves will well the the the priests we've been talking about most of them were from the congregation of Holy Cross. Across the state of St Mary's the sister of the Holy Cross operated St Mary's these 2 nuns were from that place they had volunteered along with 2 other Holy Cross priests and 2 brothers to go to the missions in India to do service there for a few years. They were making their trans pacific voyage when the ship pulled into the Philippines as scheduled for a layover in Manila for a few days. That happen to be just 2 days before the war started so the war began and they were caught in them in the Philippines in Manila and instead of going on to the missions in India they became captive of the Japanese and were in a couple different prison camps most of the time in one called last bomb yells and Lassigny else was south of Manila. They experienced the same stories that I mentioned earlier a lack of food lack of clothes in. A lack of medicine but they. Came in ways chaplains even though they were not military chaplains they did the same as chaplains other than it couldn't hear a confession or say mass but that they were there to take care of the people and boost their morale and keep people going even when it was. Difficult for them one of the the nuns sister Olivet was so hungry one time she went in so their makeshift chapel and started chewing on one of the pews that where there. May be some nourishment from that and despite that she still went about her job helping the men women and children who were in that camp it was a camp for largely civilian detainees along with some military so they serve the war. Entirely in prison camp until February of 1045 when Douglas MacArthur learned that the Japanese were going to slaughter everyone in that camp so he organized daring parachute drop. Well there should have been lost by me also killed all the Japanese guards got all those people out of Los baños into shreds. But they go away water and they wish to have a crush. Of a. Near the nerve to live their life and going to go to that thought was ripped as we come to the bottom of the hour with let's just pick it up next a coast to coast am this is he of. St. Aloha and welcome aboard ho y. 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From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet this is coast to coast am with Ian Punnett. All about self-sacrifice. And some untold stories so we'll will go back to where we we just dropped off there with the story of the nudge but. I have some other stories too for our guest author John welcome it's the soldiers of a different cloth the stories of Notre Dame chaplains during World War 2 any evidence of give me a chance to sort this out of chaplains who also served as spies and any of the reflections that he found in these dusty archives that he searched through in which the soldiers reflected upon the presence of God on the battlefield. Curious about that next on coast to coast am this is. The Earth. When my cardiologist told me I needed to take a staton drug to lower my cholesterol He also told me that it can lower my natural levels of Kochi 10 he told me to take. 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So we're talking with John Wilco it's about the soldiers of a different cloth in this case even non soldiers of a different these nuns and I had to interrupt you but you know these heart breaks are what they are at the bottom of the top of the hour so just help me put a cap stone on that conversation. This the 2 questions a spy etc Oh no no and the I had to stop you just before we got to the end with that oh Ok the movie the parachute raid into Los Banos freed all of them and they returned to St Mary's College in May have 145 April and May they came into different groups to. Call it a heartwarming. Welcome at St Mary's College the students and the staff and all lined the road which goes into St Mary's and. Just we were singing songs religious songs then they all went into the chapel there on campus for a celebration of welcoming these nuns back and they ended up serving the rest of their lives there at St Mary's sister Olivet who had kept a diary during prison camp. Turned it into quite a nice long reminiscence which I was able to get at the archives as well as look at her actual diary that she kept in prison camp so all those missionaries all made it back home although one of the brothers after the war had a bit of a nervous breakdown which was very common in all certain percentage of soldiers are going to go through that obviously then so he had a bit of p.t.s.d. I would assume but but they all ended up serving out their lives with the congregation of Holy Christ. And many ways as I say changed. Sr all of that said the you know how can I complain about anything now that I'm home. In hurling my experience has made me appreciate the country in which I was born the freedoms that I have you have to sometimes have those freedoms taken away from you. Before you realize how much you miss and relish you know its actual point beautifully put as we would say in seminary that will preach. You know this is what's so interesting about this too is. You know this is again I'm not holding you responsible for knowing this but think about when was the last time a chaplain was held captive. During Wartime Yeah well you know that's a great question I I haven't heard of any. And sounds so maybe. Oh I know I know Korea for sure and I'm pretty sure Vietnam for sure I just don't I don't think in any of the you know in the Iraq war I don't think there was any you know there are very few American soldiers taken anyway but I mean I don't like it in Afghanistan I don't think and even where they were serving with troops. I think even the whole structure of going out into the field with troops during these engagements since we changed the nature of of engagements we're no longer doing the type of you know like invasions that we used to do where everything had to marry you know be built into the beach and then move forward from there so I wonder who the actual last chaplain was that that was either taken captive or or killed in action. It would be a good story to look into I hear. So this is there's another one of my weird speculations but you know the chaplain served in this again there are non there noncombatants but there are military and it was protocol but not against the law to kill one and so it wasn't in violation of the Geneva Convention as far as I know maybe I'm wrong I'm not. Yeah I probably would be but when you're in combat both sides you're just fire in a way you're right most of the chaplains who were wounded or killed. Probably weren't purposely gunned down but they were in the battlefield and you know someone's With a Mission. But that's it so so that like the question is just I wonder whether what evidence we have of any Notre Dame priest unless you know something in some of the letters that you found where any of the chaplains might have acted at least informally in the capacity of being a spy. I never saw any instance of that and when I read hundreds of letters in the archives. I didn't see anything along those lines yeah it's just a question but I mean it would in many cases they might have been sort of uniquely situated to pick up any information and be able to share it so. Then my other question is as you read their letters back in the the are in this you know voluminous research that you did for this book. How did they how did they reflect upon the presence of God in the midst of a battle Well people are dying left and right and in a couple of different ways I suppose in. The last on the faces of the soldiers that they would be with as they passed away. It brought one of them describe it an affable joy it was the look on their face and in their mind that was God working sir those soldiers saying I'm here you know I'm helping I'm with him kind of a sense that their last moments would be of peace and not terror that God that you know yeah yeah they're dying not content I guess peace would be the better he just seeing the other dying with a sense of peace and those chaplains were able to write that to the families because one of the duties maybe one of the hardest duties of the combat that a chaplain faced those writing letters to the moms and dads of soldiers who are killed but they can at least say I was with him when he died right Central Father Barry especially and that's we'll talk about him and so I don't want to jump the gun but he was so mindful of that and need to be with them when they die say can the parents need to know that too and the letters back to these chaplains some of those are in the archives parents were admitting that I miss my son obviously but I am so. Contents in that and least he was he died in the presence of a Catholic chaplain. He died with some peace instead of dying alone kind of thing that was a presence of God that they would one way they would mention and the other would be the their thoughts when just back to campus at Notre Dame and there's a thing on campus a place called the grotto right there where there's a statue of a bus version and they would often reflect on the grotto and the Basilica of the Sacred Heart campus and the peace that they got from that and they say they missed that and so they would write often about it in their letters that will serve a way of drawing some comfort from God 2 that they always drew at the grotto and at the Basilica of the Sacred are very interesting so that. Let's let's hold on for the for the father very thing but I think now it will be actually a really good time to get to but did any of them right back questioning that in the in the letters where the priests were saying we shouldn't be doing this or I I don't want to be here or this is too much of a horror I have to come home. No none of them did that way they might have questioned am I doing my job the way I should. And my being brave enough or am I sure shirking my duty little Those would be the questions that I came across in their letters not anything about maybe we shouldn't be doing this or be here or any war or anything but if you know it's. Combat It has a way of dissolving philosophy and theology I suppose some of the simple fact of life and death I think I guess no no I think you're exactly right. That was their focus being there for the man and being a pumper so they were like how they're buried in one of those letters directly said that the father Steiner is superior and I going to be worthy enough of these young boys that would be the questions that they would raise. Of the thought. Not that they had to go through it but that that's where their minds went was just striving to be worthy of those sacred moments of being around somebody in their last. So let's talk about Father Barry So would you say of all of the people that you were able to uncover through this archive at Notre Dame that would when he asked me not to rank it but I mean help me with he will be will he be considered the most interesting of the people that you one uncovered or the most heroic or how would you how would you rank him. In the top. And that's not to get a great the others in any way but Father Gary. My favorite I don't necessary get in that lightning in the background I'm Sunder. I think I just heard that I thought you drop something I swear to god I thought you know. You can leave it open to it is actually very very Father father very became my favorite I guess and I hate to put it that way because I was impressed with them all but Father Barry was. Of all of the chaplains that I talked to he probably was most concerned with taking care of the men and now every chaplain does that but he went out of his way even to the extent that he he wrote more than $100.00 articles that are in the archives and there are long and the filled with detail on what the boys are gone sir never once in all of those letters did I come across Father Barry referring to them as soldiers but he was a chaplain in Europe with the 45th Infantry Division he never heard of them as soldiers he always called them my boys or my lads. Father Steiner my boys are suffering this week and then he go on to explain what he meant by that or my lads need help and you know that kind of thing and that was Father Barry's conscious way of. Thinking Ok these kids entered the military not because they wanted to make it a career they entered the military to fight the war when the war is over they'll go back to be in civilians they entered the war as lads as boys I want as much as possible to do everything I can to retain it that sense of being a boy being a lad and return them home as close as possible so the way to what they were before hand now he knew he could not achieve that 100 percent how do you go through a war and not be changed but he was by gosh going to do everything he could there boys they're not soldiers their boys their legs and and so he went out of his way to do everything for them even the mother of one of the boys wrote him and said My son is turning 19 next month his 1st birthday away from home can you fucking find a cake for him for his oh a now this isn't combat you know they're there as you're going out of southern France at that particular time and then you have here range to have a local woman make a cake and they got that cake to that boy 1st on the screen and so he impressed me so much and his letters I mean you'd love reading all of his letters they were so moving about and so humble I mean this guy and never once did he complain in those letters you know he's mentioning what his boys are going through right where he was lies or the same thing him self course if they endured mud and blood and explosions and fear he did too right never once did he complain he just was talking all about the boy said he served and and so yeah I had a great find this for him he was awarded the Silver Star for his actions in Sicily . He was 5 feet 3 inches tall. But not exactly the image of a light back or priest. Well and he was a chaplain for the nothern in football team and so they you know he loved telling stories about all that. Small guy but the fire in his eyes must've been something special you know I wish I could have interviewed him the but the people who knew him told me that the there was a spirit inside of Father Barry that you don't find very often and so yeah he Another time at Christmas of 1944. General Mark Clark in charge of the 45th Infantry Division invited Father Barry to a Christmas dinner at his headquarters where he could have some nice food and some nice wine and all that stuff he turned it down. So no my boys will be in a King on Christmas Eve I want to be with them and celebrate midnight mass with them and that's what you get instead of having a nice meal with the general he says the celebrated midnight mass in a kid with his voice so he was yeah like the old guy so do you have an in these letters where they are writing back from service or even in your own independent research. Of things which we know happened in in Vietnam. Where a chaplain or a more high minded member of a platoon would have stopped a massacre. Or stopped a war crime. Do you did you see any of that from the Notre Dame chaplains. Father Barry actually he did his past let's say Father Barry's unit was the 1st American unit and should I call concentration camp Wow And Father Barry and everyone else had heard about what might be in these camps. And he just. Was afraid of what he would see he didn't want to see it actually. He said but. He said Who more than a chaplain should go in and observe all of the things in a concentration camp I must go in and see it well they got there and some of the American soldiers started just lining up German guards and shouldn't just executing them instantly Now they were going to kill every German guard while Father Barry and other chaplains or the minister Sawyer Protestant chaplain also did the same and big to do the best to get between them and the German guards but you know the soldiers were so enraged by the bodies and boxed tires and then the ovens and in use we all know what was in a concentration camp Sure but they just lost it and so Father Barry and irreverent for way did their best to stop it and they succeeded in a few cases did not succeed in other words the so that would be the want to trust and you know they were involved in that I came across that's very interesting well coming up we're going to go to open lines here in just a few minutes which will be an opportunity for other people to join in in this conversation and so we do have it racked as we say. Next hour last 10 minutes or so so much of the show I'll play you this piece and I hope you like it John it's. Never Well it's never aired it's produced it has soundbites in it and it has interviews with people that knew 2 of these Latter day. Chaplain So one of the stories I think you'll find particularly interesting from the Korean War And then somebody did send me and I grateful for this a Twitter if you want to follow me on Twitter it's at Deacon Punit. And Melissa sent the story of the Catholic priest who earned a medal of honor. During the Vietnam war. Ok Let's do you know that story I did not go share that with you and I'll share with everybody else he was you know as you as you as you found out a lot of these such chaplain Ted had nicknames right other than chap which is kind of a common name that they would give a chaplain but father Vincent Kompany Dano was known as the grunt chaplain. Pick the growth of the chaplain. And he earned the nation's highest decoration for valor the Vietnam I'll share a little of that will give the numbers to coming up after the top of the hour so you can join in the conversation we're talking about is the archives that John that will give its discovered the archives of the soldiers of a different cloth Notre Dame chaplains in World War 2 untold stories of some really Horowitz people who otherwise have been kind of lost to history until this book it until tonight on coast to coast am this is he and others. Free offer contingent on subscription pay shipping and handling cancel any time message and data rates may apply when did it become Ok for men to be lazy Aloha and welcome aboard home why an airline flight he flies with us now for a limited time new home when your lines were only need Mastercard card members can earn 60000 bone his Hawaiian miles after qualifying purchases that 60000 bonus miles closer to the war and traditions. 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