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M m m m m m m Good evening everyone you're in the right place at the right time this is coast to coast am the last thing out of the Mojave desert like a show. Blazing across the land slamming into your radio like a supercharged nanoparticle of unobtainium Greetings from the coldest most outrageous city in the world the planetary capital. Sin sex and secrets my not so humble hometown Vegas Nevada My name is George Knapp your occasional host designated driver of the airwaves and moderator of the night a comic a cop and his cavalcade a conversation. We're cruising right along to the end of October just ahead trick or treaters costumes Halloween a holiday and a celebration seemingly made for coast to coast it's the one night of the year inspired by the unseen world the supernatural by forces we don't completely understand when the membrane between this world and other worlds gets thin and maybe just maybe is a time when those other worlds dribble over into ours we're going to talk about that idea tonight with 2 very sharp minds guests who've been thinking about these questions and subjects on a higher plane than most of us you know we talk about other dimensions parallel realities on this program all the time about beings from other worlds about interdimensional time travelers dimensional portals we all kind of take it for granted sometimes that all those ideas are real or at least we think we understand it wasn't always that way for people though how do we get to this point and what does it mean for us if there are other dimensions does it mean there are people in those other places and if so can they get here or maybe they're us these are heavy topics but we have a great guest to help us get our heads around them Christopher White earned a Ph d. In religious studies from Harvard he's written a brilliant book called other worlds spirituality and the search for invisible dimensions which takes a look at how our understanding of the world around us and unseen worlds such as the future or heaven or other dimensions have evolved how it reconcile science and spirituality and makes room for exotic subjects the kind of things we've discussed on this program near death experiences out of body experiences e.s.p. Deja vu what happens to us when we die you know and for Halloween when Spirit supposedly roam around among us I figured this might be a good fit. Dr White has written an entertaining and provocative masterpiece and I'm really looking forward to him joining us in the 2nd half of the program coming up a bit later 1st though we welcome back intrepid investigator and prolific writer Nick Redfern as many of you know Nick has traveled the world digging into strange tales and dark legends an old 2 true conspiracies and I wanted to get him back for a pre Halloween discussion about a massive compendium he put together the title says it all the monster book he's got every monster you can imagine not Hollywood versions although some of the Hollywood versions are based on the real things this is the real deal as reported by witnesses and investigators and news people dating back centuries you know we humans have reported some pretty wild encounters and in the 1st hour Nick will share some of those stories with us then an hour or 2 will focus on his latest work it starts with alien abductions that's the starting point for what seemed like alien abductions in some form or another it takes us into an understanding that I think is all the more frightening and its implications because it goes to the heart of questions about who's watching whom one quick news note earlier tonight just while ago a jetliner with 189 people aboard crashed into the Java Sea Not far far from Jakarta Indonesia where no rescue crews have found debris no word yet on survivors or the cause of the crash that flight was operated by Lyon airlines. Our webmaster tonight Greg Bishop and I have culled together other items and oddities from various news sites around the world we call it Knapp's news you can find it on the coast to coast website among the stories tonight a couple of how we type themes you've heard of the infamous Salem Witch Trials of course what about the vampire panic that followed the Salem Witch Trials Yeah American vampires or so it was thought at the time interesting little piece of history that I hadn't seen before Plus a new study that sheds light on why some of us are more superstitious than others bowls down to altered perceptions or so say the folks who wrote this study another story about the discovery of a 3000 year old mummy it's a she a tattooed woman who may have been a priestess a practitioner of high magic I think I might have dated her sister also scientists ponder what an alien encounter might mean if or when it happens on the record that is that and more in naps news tonight and while you're on the coast website check out how to become a coast insider the cost of a yearly subscription is about $0.15 a day gives you access to a vast archive of previous programs and other goodies Plus you can listen to the program anytime you want as often as you want you can also subscribe to beyond belief that's George Norreys television program which often covers many of the topics and guest we know from the coast to coast broadcast we have information on how you get dialed into that show as well. With that let's assume the position bring in the dog the cat the rooster the lizard put on a pot of Joe slide into the jammies and slippers plop yourself down in a comfy spot turn down the lights and turn up the radio because you're about ready to rumble and get down right how we need in a moment Nick Redfern monsters and aliens I'm George Knapp and this is coast to coast am. Message and data rates may apply earning your degree from one of the top business schools in the country might sound impossible to fit into your workload but what if there were a business degree that further Ger career and gave you access to world renowned faculty leaders and mentors all on your schedule one that opened doors to some of the most influential C.E.O.'s tech companies law firms entrepreneurs and thought leaders and what if you could earn that degree in as little as 16 months 100 percent online to find out more text path to 79645 that's ph t h 279645 start your online m.b.a. 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Welcome back I don't know if Halloween is Nick read Verne's favorite holiday but it should be he's written more than 30 books about weird spooky creepy creatures beings spirits additives and conspiracies sightings and encounters that span the centuries and cover the planet and maybe spill over into other planets one of his books his recent books is called Monsters creatures beasts and fiends of nature and I thought that sounds like a good place to start for a pretty Halloween program but we also have other plans for next appearance the night Nick Redford Welcome back Hey George as things are pretty good you know I thought maybe we start to curve of us sort of a broad question for you you know when you look at the depth and breadth and sheer number of different strange and wondrous and scary beings the kind of things that you cover in this book monsters to use your term can't help but wonder you know are we humans completely off our rockers to see so many things for so long so many of them that seemingly don't exist can't exist or is there some kind of a common thread or theme that ties all these things together. Well I guess the one thing more than anything else that ties Whether it's like Munster is big for its mafia you know the Yeti I guess the one thing more than anything else that puts them in the same categories that they're all 100 percent elusive 100 percent of the time they have because skeptics would say well that's because they don't exist but I have to admit you know that thing that one angle that kind of ties all of these so-called monsters together is the fact that they are a loose and in some cases I think you know if you David with things like like monsters that can be quite understandable if you're a daily we have a you know a 40 mile long lake and you know 700 fetes deep most of us don't have the money to hire a mini submarine you know to go looking for these things so that's one of the problems we have is that. You know the just the logistics of trying to find some of these things can be quite difficult particularly when they the scientific community in the zoological community. And their heads away from these kind of phenomena so you know that can be problematic but I always tell people I mean if you look back in history. You know it's only been a couple of centuries. You know before a lot of recognized animals were found to exist in the 1st place so I think it's important to remember that it's that you know there are surprises still out there this much of the world which still remains under exploited Yeah you have several of the creatures or monsters that are in your book that are based on things that we know existed at one point giant beepers for example or you know some of these things that look like dinosaurs that are believed long extinct that still might exist in wild places yeah I mean this sort of all fail falls into the failed of. It's known as cryptozoology and cryptozoology as a term is a little bit pompous You know you cannot sort of base become a professor of crypto Suhaila just because there's no degree you can take to baby one you know it's but if people actually know all you're cryptozoologist I'll say well yeah but I say it knowing how bearing separating the well you know I'd rather just be seen as like a I know creature sake a monster and serve it I was think Cryptozoology is a little bit pompous and sort of science but like you falling just yes yes exactly but what I would say is that it's you know when you when you're looking at all these different things you know you mentioned creatures that we assumed were extinct may not be a main that relates to Bigfoots vulnerable snowman for example one of the more intriguing Feighery is is that. Of the Himalayas Aaron. Of China and possibly Bigfoot may be surviving relics of a giant type that didn't exist right about 200000 years ago called gigantic pay ficus and it did actually roam around India to backs and China so there are there is a good chance that what we're seeing with 1000 animals could base avoiding pockets of juggling to pay the costs now we don't know grants it if floats you know falls into that category because we don't really know how jargon ship it because Walt you know did it was like a gorilla or did it walk upright like us you know that would give us the ounces that we don't have enough skeletal material to my sort of determination but you know I think the idea of extensions that may actually not be extinct could actually apply to a number of these so-called crypt as they're called and then you get into some really weird ones and ballet in Kiel in. Folks like that are written about commonalities with these creatures maybe Els and trolls that were reported long ago are now being reported as a teaser aliens and it's maybe the same beings that are in different forms are seen through a different cultural prism where you come down on that well yeah I mean I'm a big sort of follower of junk Aylesworth particularly And I think one of the things for me at least I mean you know different people get difference in our responses from from ratings books but from my perspective I kind of take the view that it's his most importance. Revelation a theological conclusion was that many of Ace phenomena seem to be multi connected and feel like interconnected and by that you have a lot of reports where papal of saying Big Foot side creatures and in the same location and timeframe say for example u.f.o. Activity. The Maf money in Point Pleasant West Virginia in the sixty's when there was such a muffin was saying soaring around the skies of Point Pleasant you'll set a lot of encounters with the men in black and u.f.o. Encounter So I think some of these creatures at least some of the weird to walk ins like Muffin Man in the Dog Man and things like facts I think I'm not even sure they should fully into the category of cryptozoology will all creatures say can cause I'm not entirely sure that they are creatures or animals in the way we understand it's. You know when you get reports of say a Bigfoot vanishing in a flash of lights or you know the dog man roaming around sort of sacred sites and that kind of thing it makes me think that we daily we see something that is perceived as an animal but now I may not they I think cable was someone who was insightful enough way back in the sixty's to make these. Actions but a lot of paypal just didn't I just as I just did not want to know or at least didn't want to handle it Dale with a the way it's a side of these phenomena in this book The Book of Monsters there are several reports early in the book that sort of blend together at least in my head you've got Wolf men dog men werewolves where cats shapeshifters a lot of differences between the these creatures that are seen but also a lot of commonalities. Are are is a possible they're all the same thing are we talking about something different. Well I mean it's difficult to say really Britain Maine you know I don't have any reports at all I should stress where somebody is you know at the turn of the full moon is changed into a way I will from a regular person you know that sort of all the the Hollywood imagery but the fact is that people do report seeing sort of large wolf like animals that seems to have the ability to walk onto limbs and full limbs. I've got a lot I get a lot of reports like that but I've never gotten reports of someone you know literally shape shifting like you know American we have all the London or anything like bats. But a lot of these cases that I do receive what I found is that it's the locations where these dog man type creatures a saint is intriguing and very often these ancients burial mounds Native American land. Some of the mysterious old mounds in Wisconsin and so on. So I find the fact that they seem to be tied to certain locations is intriguing rather than just saying at random you had one where Wallace case that was from a military base it's not ancient either it's more recent times he remembered that yes yeah this was a British by school Royal Air Force helped them break and actually was able to speak to the witness personally this case went back to 1970 and he was. An American guy but it's working overseas at our e.f.l. Can break in the 1970s when there were a number of bases which had. An American presence this is the height of the cultural and he swore that he saw this creature that was like about 5 to 6 feet tall covered. And would've sort of kind of looked like a Bigfoot type creature was it not for the just the face was very good. Prints to how you would describe an ape and it was more like a long muzzle pointed a as much like a German Shepherd So if you imagine sort of bigfoot body with a with a gym and shepherds head on it that's pretty much what he described and you know I didn't see any reason why he should you know create a story like that to fabricate a story like that he was I was able to confirm his background in the military and he said he just wanted to share the story because he never forgotten about it and it was so way it. You've got a lot of stories in this book instances where people report he's huge dogs I mean right out of the Hound of the Baskervilles I think you make that comparison in your book as well as these gigantic cats and you know you can see all right maybe it's an animal's escape from the zoo or maybe it's somebodies dog that got out and is living wild but these things are seen over centuries over and over again running wild in the the u.k. Countryside and some of the encounters have been really dramatic and you share a couple of those start with the dog ones well yeah I mean where is overhead you know we have the dog mound which kind of looks like a dog like on a mole but it's you know clearly is not well in England will be Ok we have what unknown is find some black dogs now. Tone of a Conan Doyle who wrote the show it comes novel the hand of the Basque of ills he actually based his novel on a preexisting legend of one of these many black dog stories that you can find in the u.k. But typically much log much larger than regular dogs and they have his fiery blazing red eyes and in a lot of the old legends and traditions if you want to say one of these found some black dogs it would either May that he would die or you know a close family member or friend would die. Unlike the dog mine fire often seen at the same places like Crossroads graveyards places like that in more recent days I've got several reports of people saying the phantom black dogs in the vicinity of stone circles in the u.k. Not at Stonehenge which is obviously the most famous one but the you know there are many many smaller. Formations around here and I've got 2 cases from Scotland where witnesses saw one of these. Large black dogs and like they all cases going back centuries the dog was there one second and then quite literally gone the next 2nd you know just vanished into nothing. And again it's hard to determine what base things are you know of but clearly not normal dogs I mean all of a space parrots of dogs that once lived I guess the only downside with that is that they're much bigger than regular dogs you know you'd imagine if they were the. Spirits of dead dogs they would resemble the dogs by look like in real life. And then the cats are even harder to explain in the u.k. I mean there's no big cats that live there well now you write in fact they become known as I bases I am big cats and I get every year we get dozens and dozens of reports of people saying large black cats roaming the attack now the occasional sort of ask I ask I pay you know from a zoo or menagerie what have a my text line a couple of cases and you know there are cases where. Wild animals actually have a sky from so but they've always been rounded up very very quickly the problem is there are these large black cats roaming around the u.k. Which simply defy explanation because the shape and number of reports from the bottom of England to the top of this top of Scotland is hundreds every year now for that many reports to exist you know there must be anti colonies of these creatures roaming around that is if they are flesh and blood regular animals which not every research of the phenomenon thinks that's the case you know we're going to get into some of the more exotic explanations in a moment talking with Nick Redfern about his monster book creatures beasts and beings of nature this could be the rock n roll theme song for Halloween a Hell's bells will be right back. For you to watch on t.v. . With George Noory simply go to beyond belief. 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Dot com slash save as Robert Bowers stands before a judge accused in the deadly rampage u.s. Attorney Scott Brady says a fur a look at the tragic incident is ongoing I know that we will spare no effort or resource in ensuring that the defendant is held fully accountable Fox's going to Al Scott 5 students at the historically black Texas Prairie View and Emunah. 1st of these suing Waller County election officials for allegedly violating their 15th Amendment rights by not putting in early voting location on campus so we accommodated a request and then we we were quite surprised that we get sued in federal court over the fact that we accommodated that request County Judge trade to hand says the accommodative Democratic Party request to avoid a potential conflict with homecoming weekend this is Fox News. It goes all the way back to the founding of the are going to trash white remember Rush Limbaugh this. 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Called the 2220 so song called devil in me thought it would work well with our conversation with Nick Redfern talking about the monster book creatures beasts and fiends of nature Still to come in this hour bat squatch donkey woman goat man lizard man a whole menagerie are really strange creatures and then it gets really creepy M.I.B.'s woman in black and moth man and something called the winged man as well that's still to come in our conversation with Nick stick around we'll be right back . 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Can be. Nick Redfern there are some great stories in the book the monster monster book and some of them like Lizard Man I remember reporting blizzard Banas as a newscaster back when those stories were unfolding and seemed like every couple of days or be a new sighting or a new angle on it and it was kind of fun it was like an oddity almost like a circus freak kind of a story or something that couldn't was somebody in a costume or an oddity like that as opposed to something it really raised the goosebumps such as story you tell in this book about something called a winged man it's a story from Staffordshire England in 2009 you remember the details oh yeah thanks for Ironically that was at a place called the kind of chase in central England only about 5 miles from where I grew up as a kid so I know that that area very well I think it's a large area of woodland forest land and like certain places around the world it seems to be so the hot spots paranormal phenomena the kind of chases just the same you have to become known as window areas where it seems everything in its brother comes through you know it at various times and this is a particular way it case but what was intriguing about it was it was taken very seriously by the local newspaper the Chinese post and somebody had same this. What looked like a humanoid figure sort of literally flying low if soloing would be a better term to use with the woods at high speed you know kind of like a flying man not unlike I guess the you know the stories coming out of Point Pleasant in the sixty's with them off mind something you know kind of paralleled it in that respect and there were there were none. Of independent witnesses who came forward and spoke to the press and one of them even spoke to the local police although I don't really know what the police could have done about it. But it was intrigue and that's you know you have this spate of weird activity in this area which is already notorious for sightings of things interesting enough like the Dog Man and the phantom black dogs and also the large black cats as well you have a story in the book about the terror you call it the terrible old man thing 1977 that surfaces at a Winchell's of all places in Sunnyvale California oh yeah that's a really creepy story and I guess appropriate for Halloween I missed a story given term a lady named Cherry and she had the same counts a 977 with what I can only call like amounting black and not the men in black as they portray bar Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones in the movies but the real men in black a much weight of a sort of very pale and skin a and don't and look entirely human by sort of almost look cadaverous and found pile like and a lot of paranormal overtones attached to the Real Men in Black stories you know whereas in the movies that's a secret agency you know of a secret agency but Terry tell me the story of how his 977 when she was just a young girl at the time she was having lunch with a friend and this creepy man in black time towards him sat down and proceeded to tell Terry. Basically that the future of the the rest of her life and it was filled with sort of doom gloom and tragedy and she said that just looking at him was like looking at somebody who was dead and almost like demonic was it was that sort of terminology and it was sort of penetrating always this all black suit and just gave off this really sort of intimidating creepy thought even didn't really come across as being completely human. And didn't something I mean the things that this guy said was going to happen to or I think they did happen to her or yes that's right she had a lot of tragedy in a life and kind of forecasted that to happen and I think when it happened as a teenager you know she she never really forgot it's all lost it's and I think you know to have that sort of trauma hanging over here for the rest of your life you know believing that's what this mindset a little thing saying we're going to come true you know I mean you can understand how it would create a great deal of stress for someone you know the Macho Man stories or at least the movie version of moth man is that this creature appears in different forms to different people at different times but as a harbinger of doom to come that it predates bad things that are about to happen is that sort of how you think it plays out in the moth man sightings of Point Pleasant and beyond well yeah I mean there's no doubt that's you know when you look at the mof mind story that it's sort of saturated in weirdness and tragedy for paver down now it kicked off in light 66 in Point Pleasant West Virginia I went people started saying this creature that some people described as like a flying him annoyed a few people said it looked vaguely like a terrorist act so others described it as a giant butt and but whatever that was saying paperwork leave it I was saying something way bigger than any normal but for anything like that and when the sightings were bad heights in 67 you had a lot of we had a u.f.o. Activity the surfacing of this way it's creepy characters and I mean just cold it was like approach so many in black and also a lot of Am I being Kansas and also reports of women in black turning up and threatening u.f.o. Witnesses and of the high. It's a feat of course you know you have the specter of the muffin man flying around town in December $67.00. The towns. As it's called or as it was called the Silver Bridge collapsed into the Ohio River Point Pleasant Some one side of the Ohio River and Ohio is on the other side obviously and the bridge collapsed into the river killing dozens of faithful and various race has addressed the connection or the potential connection between the presence of the muffin man and the collapse of the bridge and the deaths and you have the really sort of 2 overriding fairies one that. A the cause of the disaster in the deaths all that it was sort of a warning and it's a that in a strange way tried to warn people of looming disasters and bad luck that's still very much debated divisive upon you know to this day but there's also an English equivalent of it known as the Owl Man which also has a sort of penetrating red eyes and large wings and a humanoid full on and a friend of mine John Downs who's looked into the sky stay plea John eventually had to walk away from the race because he found that every time he started to get back into the race and investigating Val Man stories bad things would happen to him like car accidents and ail health and it happened so many times close to just after it started doing the research that he realized from his perspective but it really was as if you know a cloud of a dark cloud would come over him every time he got into it and he quite literally eventually said I'm done you know I'm staying away from it because he felt somehow it was get nice clothes and see him we had a resurgence of interest in moth man in. Times in the Chicago area a lot of reports of people who have seen the same thing and I don't have a strong feeling of it either way of whether it is wishful thinking on the part of people who follow this sort of stop and wish it would happen or whether there's some credibility to those sightings What's your take on it well you know you do get strange creature waves in the field of cryptozoology you know a lot they as you mentioned the maf Monteith creatures seen in Chicago last summer . And we get time to spite so all waves of activity in relation to other creatures I mean for example in the 1970s in much of Pennsylvania there were certain spots and i rights of Bigfoot activity. Some of these like months of stories you know that there won't be any sightings Ca is and then suddenly there's you know it to wait period and we get a lot of things like that and that kind of I'm going to feel like he's sort of power wild throughout barriers of the types of creatures so again I'm inclined to think that maybe you know something that suggests again a connection between these creatures even if I that the saved as being very difference of course but but that that wave of activity in Chicago last year was very interesting match for my own perspective although I didn't really investigate the Mosman sightings because there are a lot of people who were already looking into it so one of them a friend of mine Allison jauntily and shaving doing a lot of good research into it but what I did I wrote a couple of articles about its And in relation to have a number of witnesses to the mafia money in Chicago had suddenly afterwards had less almost as I saw it prophetic dreams nightmares of nuclear destruction and atomic mushroom clouds and you know the end of civilization. And I actually had somewhere in the rate region of close to 30 people response to that article. Many of them living in the Chicago area who felt that's you know something might happen others. Act in 10 years dreams and nightmares of atomic war in the United States and and I felt somehow that it was connected with sightings of this my last month type Preacha So in that sense you know that was that was kind of a disturbing situation you know to get all these nuclear nightmares as I call them you know from paper would say in this strange creature was was kind of you know a bit disturbing. You know I think you're but you're careful not to take too strong of a position in defense of some of these cases but occasionally you will make a comment that let your readers know where you are on that you will respond to critics who try to just brush it off and I know you have to be careful you don't want to commit any these things because you know because you know it's hard it's hard to prove it one way or another right. Well yeah it is hard to prove anything but I mean you know I've I've spoken to probably hundreds and hundreds of witnesses to strange creatures over the years and what I found is that the vast majority of them do come across as being overwhelmingly down to earth and rational Now of course in fails I visualize going to get someone who you know tries to hoax you're just a fantasy still just some crazy person but what I found is the vast majority do come across like regular normal people but I always think that you know when you're dealing with something like the paranormal it's important to let the ray to know when you know something to share or when you're speculating and I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating provided in the raid or understands that that's what it is you know. I think for that reason. You know the vets the I think that's the responsible way to do it is to sort of look at the data and share it's and that's what I do for the diatribes of people to say and if I've got on says I tell people if I don't have answers I'll tell them you know this is this is a theory or a concept or or possibility. You know I'm not going to tell people the big 40 some strange creature that come from the far side of the moon which I don't believe it did by the way. But you know for someone to specifically state something along those lines is is not the way to go yet there's a story in the monster book about something you called that's called That's watch and you share that with us well yeah that the Bat Squad story is it has a really strange one and again it's sort of falls into one of the categories that more than anything else is something that sort of pops up is not seen again and just kind of. Just sort of baffles people in that there are a lot of cases like that's where. You know something pops up and people are like what an earth was vats and then it's never seen again but these particular cases an interesting one it occurred in April 19th 64 book Lee Washington and actually quite close to my Renee and the witness a man named young man named Brian can failed he saw this strange creature while he was driving along the road and it was sort of humanoid with this huge wings but it was kind of hairy as well scares me and how they shining yellow eyes but they sort of the federal the hair angle combined with the large wings you know the hairy body in the wings kind of people said oh it's not you know it's not Sasquatch because he's got wings but he kind of looks a bit like Sasquatch a let's call it. And and for a lawyer in 9094 it was actually quite big news in that area and then like a lot of other these you know there's other cases he just sort of became part of the local legend you know the areas folklore and so on. You've got a lot of men in black stories women in black stories you and I have talked about that before that might be spookier than the men in black and then some of those cases you know they seem otherworldly just out of place and you know we've we've been accustomed because of the movies to think that maybe there are some secret government agents but if you ever had any indications that maybe some of them are Sora very human government type operatives who are operating under the umbrella of something like a man in black trying to emulate the the real mystery and figuring they can get away with it that no one will believe the witnesses who see them well I've got to be honest with you George I'm enough done 5 books now on this phenomena for the men in black and one of the women in black and I have to say that the vast majority of all the reports I get don't sound anything like you know they stepped out of the Pentagon or the CIA or the f.b.i. Or the n.s.a. . You know nothing like the concept in the movies typically are described as looking pale and sickly you know Gaunts and the skins like white light. And people talk about high Saints have this ability to mind control the personal hypnotise them they've of even talked about when they're in close proximity to them that they fall in sake afterwards almost like a like a supernatural infection or something along those lines and there are cases when the men in black and the women in black have turned up in homes right after paper been using wager bullets which puts another angle to it's. But there's no doubt in my mind again that's you know this is a real phenomenon but it's not like it's portrayed in the movies it's more sort of like a you know like a gothic horror story mixed in with the x. Files you know you put those 2 issues to. That's that's how I would sort of describe this the Men in Black mistreat It's far beyond you know just guys in a black suits walking you know I guess I'm you know I'm asking it in the context sort of like with cattle mutilations as I think you know there's there's a lot of evidence that these animal relations are carried out by something other than just. Humans in helicopters that some of them are truly inexplicable and then you have a whole other wave of them that surely seem like they are humans that are carrying out the same kind of thing for whatever reasons this is sort of leading us to where we're going in the next hour to talk about your other book on the alien abduction files but where in human agencies and that doesn't mean government agencies but humans pretend to be something paranormal get away with something that's really weird and they they do it in a way that so that there isn't a lot of serious scrutiny by people like you or people like me or or other investigators Well yeah I mean I think you know when you talk about the cattle mutilations you know you've got a really weird ones in explicable and then some which Asier perhaps to explain there is a parallel with the Men in Black where there's no doubt that in some cases I think that government agencies are responsible for the I my baby I think it's a very small cats a great says they generally unexplained ones in the winter was what I think has happened on a few occasions and there is some evidence to support this is that it's. Over the years I didn't see my actually employed the legends of the man in black as a means to cover their tracks in other words the maybe people within government who know that the Men in Black are also rail but I don't know what they are but it doesn't prevent them from using the legend the motel right as a mainstay to threaten and quiet people who know that I may not want to have them talking about their cases so the government may actually not know who the man in black really are and I don't think I do fully well that sort of leads us into where we're heading in the next hour we're going to talk about top secret alien abduction files what the Government Doesn't Want You To Know That's Nick's latest book whether or not you believe alien abductions are real the files on alien abductions are real when to tell you what might be going on there based on some of the are real life documents that Nick has squeezed out of the u.s. And the u.k. Government that the outlaws take us into the break with maybe the greatest ghost story ghost song ever written Ghost Riders in the sky we write back. To access the audio archives of coast to coast am going to coast to coast am done. Way to way to most plumbers work on commission that means the more you spend the more they make summers to work on looking to purchase or lease a new vehicle in the Bay Area Stevens Creek Toyota has you covered quality service a huge selection and a streamlined sales experience cured toward saving you time and money visit them today at Stevens Creek toyota dot com Stevens Creek Toyota the obvious choice. 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Mourning 11 murdered I'm Dave Anthony Fox News arts pour out to all those who lost loved ones and to those still fighting for their lives in the hospital was a vigil last night in Pittsburgh the day after a gunman went on a shooting spree at a synagogue Thousands attended the gunman the accused suspect robber Bowers due in court later today while he was being taken into custody the gunman told police he wanted all Jews to die and that they were committing genocide to his people according to the criminal complaint as he's recovering at the hospital from being shot multiple times by police he's facing the full brunt of the law with 29 federal charges many of which could bring the death penalty and $36.00 state charges as well that's Fox's Garrett Tenney in Pittsburgh a disaster in Indonesia plane crash into the sea shortly after taking off from Jakarta with 189 people on board the pilot of that Lion Air flight had requested to return to the airport just before the crash why we don't know rescuers of so far only recovered a lot of debris no survivors also due in court today in Miami seas are say Och the man accused of mailing 14 pipe bombs to prominent Democrats and trouble critics he's not likely to plead one way or the other the whole process itself could last just 15 minutes the judge will likely ask whether he has an attorney or not and then talk about the charges he faces he faces at least 5 federal charges he could spend up to 48 years in jail but they could add charges also including the charge of the use of weapons of mass destruction that could carry a life sentence sack is likely to be shackled by the arms by the legs and by the waist boxes to Harrigan in Miami they were up late partying in Boston. 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