So today exercising instead of smoking again away from alcohol when I was 1st quit . I kept on trying learn something each time do whatever it takes no matter how many times it takes we did it. For free help called 1800 quit now a message from the u.s. Department of Health and Human Services and c.d.c. . All show all show all show weekdays noon good to him 13 j.f.k. Said last year all of the nuggets are missing his playoff experience now they have it I 100 percent expect a championship from the neck it's all show he said it was a good question he looked at Mann's and wow that changed my life I think it was maybe a pleasant surprise the Eagles are just always a talented hockey club no matter where they are all show Colorado head coach tad Boyle this issue is one that is a major issue Dick and the spear be if the boy is an organization in certain areas Hall show the voice of the Colorado buffalos Mark Johnson I don't bring this up to help that all work the other one. 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Sometimes it's the normal sometimes it's the abnormal and sometimes it's the paranormal but it's always beyond reality Welcome to the program everyone we kick off another week here it's beyond reality radio I'm your host j.v. Johnson and tonight we have a very very special program we're going to be talking with Melissa tittle the night Melissa is the director of original content for the Gaia streaming service and she's produced a documentary called on earth thing Nazca the complete story this document area in our discussion tonight is about the mysterious mummies that were unearthed the Nazca Peru not long ago this is a controversial topic there's a lot of controversy surrounding these mummies but Melissa put a team together from Gaia and they went down with the film crew in hand and they did some research and they did some question asking and they've they've done a lot of work and put together this film which I believe debuted I'll say tonight although it was it was the 7th even though we've moved into the 8th year and. We're going to talk about tonight's going to be a very fascinating discussion we'll take your calls at the in the 2nd hour of the program at 844-687-7669 can you give me a little more volume I know every week it has to go up a little more I don't know what it's saying about me yeah that's perfect thank you sir. Let's see what we have to do before we go to break just remind you to check out skerrick on dot com That event is coming up very very quickly and if you're a fan of pop culture particularly horror films in this hollowing season it's a great way to spend a weekend it's in Rochester New York October 18th through the 20th just go to scare a con dot com you'll see a lot of information there about all the celebrities that will be attending the film premieres that will be happening the parties that will be going on Friday. And Saturday night and great panel discussions are are scheduled of panel discussions for this particular show is the best we've had in 10 years it's really quite incredible My hat's off to there's a podcast group called 3 fat nerds Yes that's the name you should check them out and they took on the task of putting together a lot of the panels for skerrick on. And they did a great job so. My hats off to them thank you for all that work. Dot com you'll see all that stuff and finally the one thing I didn't mention is there are going to be a number of really great vendors there if you're looking for something unique particularly in this hollowing season or you're a collector you're looking for some collectible stuff or you want to buy some Blu rays or D.V.D.'s of your favorite films this is the place to go again it's Garrick on it's October 18th through the 20th in Rochester New York it's at the Rochester Riverside Hotel there are rooms available there to special discounted rate or if you just plan on spending the day you don't need a room that's fine too just check it out skerrick on dot com Art We're going to go to break when we come back we'll bring in our guest again tonight we're talking with Melissa tittle and we're talking about the Nascar mommies and beyond reality radio. 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Its products not intended to diagnose treat cure prevent any diseases directed. Use for Stark 3rd seem to have carried a let's face it weakens on the radio can sometimes be. Boring. But Saturday mornings on k Ok are informational get a college education get a good job and you'll be successful all the way to retirement with a half not necessarily true entertaining I think you get a sense of who you're playing against on that 1st or 2nd tee box and if they're taking a little bit too seriously like in the Masters then there might not try. Too much but if it's your buddies who you know who the club. 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America is kept safe because the Army National Guard response protection supports our nation when it needs the most from fighting wildfires with air support helping civilians in flooded neighborhoods to delivering food and supplies to those who have lost everything the Army National Guard always responds when disaster strikes the Army National Guard also trains to be ever vigilant against threats foreign and domestic They protect our skies with missile defense weaponry they secure our information communications and infrastructure with cybersecurity and they protect us against chemical biological and radiological hazards with the civilian support team the Army National Guard also stands ready to deploy and provide support for conflicts or humanitarian missions abroad joined the Army National Guard and be there to respond protect and support your community and your country visit National Guard dot com to learn more about part time service sponsored by the Colorado Army National Guard by the Colorado Broadcasters Association and this station the most local talk another in Colorado 30. Welcome back to the program it's beyond reality radio I'm your host j.d. Thang. Thanks for being here tonight thank you know the radio stations carrying the show around the country as well and we appreciate you listening and or watching whether you're watching on the You Tube stream or you listen as a downloadable podcast later that's fine too we appreciate you being part of being part of our audience. We will take your phone calls later in the show 844-687-7669 if you have questions about tonight's topic we'll be talking about the Nascar mommies our guest tonight Melissa title is the director of original content for the Gaia streaming service she's produced this documentary called Under thing Nazca the complete story which is about these mummies Melissa welcome to be on reality radio pleasure to have you here tonight Hi Nice to be here if you were a filmmaker you've been actually in front of and behind the camera you've written you produced you've done all of that plus you have a real sincere interest in a passion in some of these strange or unusual topics like the one we're going to be talking about tonight which of those 2 things came 1st. The filming your part. Or the strength right which of the which of those came 1st. Man that's hard one I think I've always been a weird kid. The supernatural I was always intrigued by stories that people could really find a dancer for. So when I got in to actually be able to tell a story thing that I gravitated towards And then of course I just literally fell into a rabbit hole with like covering all of the stuff well one point you spent a number of seasons working on the television show ancient aliens did you. First 5 seasons tell us a little bit about that experience. Well that experience was. Very interesting I mean you know like I said I was I was kind of into this stuff but but that was the 1st time that I got paid to go beyond the normal research that I had done before and. What was really interesting about that show that it was the 1st time on mainstream television that they were allowing us to kind of show that kind of stuff I mean we would mask that in this show like the title called ancient aliens so even if we were you know calling you know Jesus an alien It just seemed like a ridiculous show so people people kind of just went along with this charade but but we were really bringing up real research and really issues because people couldn't explain some of the supernatural stuff that was in ancient texts and we were trying to explain it and I thought they did a really good job at that period in time for the 1st 5 years that we worked on that trying to explain that to the mainstream and it was the 1st show that that really that really did that do you think there's been a change in attitude. Particularly in the appetite of the public for this type of information and maybe even this type of discussion. Oh definitely the last 10 years it has ramped up again used to be there was a couple and movie there's a couple shows on t.v. Kind of talking about this stuff but now it's as if you know c.n.n. Is even using the word you know government conspiracy it's not it's like everything that is the used to be super weird is no mainstream doesn't feel like it really doesn't and sometimes I think that reality television has a lot to do to be able to take a lot of the credit for this because it seems to have taken real people put them in real situations and shown other people that it's Ok to be thinking about these things and talking about these things and in some cases experiencing these things yeah you may know a lot of that like paranormal type shows that which are yeah weather and yeah whether it's ghost hunting type shows or it's even u.f.o. Hunting or bigfoot I mean that they've done it all so I think that has put it right into the living room where it was previously me and in the event more like like a radio show like this where is it was where you'd have to go for it. Yeah and then I think you know even if people say to someone oh that's ridiculous Bigfoot isn't real the fact that they're talking about it and it's becoming part of their conversation it's already real you know I mean yeah like what it is even even if they're saying it's not real it's already made it into everyday conversation oh yeah tell me type but sorry oh god no no I was going to say that that I think. People people want to believe and I think what's happening right now in our culture across the world is everyone is trying to find truth you know what is the truth behind you know this story or this presidential candidate or this thing and I think the more educated we become realize that everything is just a fractured truth like there is truth in everything that we're saying but that doesn't mean it matches with your truth that makes sense yeah makes perfect sense do you think we've become somewhat fastener over maybe we always have been and maybe the providers of this type of material are starting to recognize it but are we just fascinated with mystery any true crime is also very very popular these days if you like anything that does just the uncertainty to we seem to want to consume Yeah I wasn't that's just human nature we always want to know what's in the shadows you know the reason why true crime is so. Interesting to people because how could humans doing that right so they so they watch the show and they try to figure out how calculating this the certain human could have been and why they would do such a thing so I think the same thing with the supernatural and the weird it's just like whoa but I can't explain it but I want to because a human I need to justify my own place in the universe and if I can define that other thing that not defines me and a lot of what we're talking about here a lot of these questions and these mysteries are things that are discussed and covered and Guy told Salut about Gaia Yes. Some Gaia is we like to use the phrase we are in the Netflix of conscious programming. So. I'll give you a little spiel so we have a 1000 titles we do acquire a lot of documentaries and everything from. Everything from actual yoga practice in the meditation to documentaries RINGBACK all the way to the spectrum of aliens a government conspiracy and everything in between and then we also have a original content that does the same thing so the the idea that we are the you know quote unquote Now it's like the consciousness is basically saying that we're trying to cover anything that allows you to know more about things that aren't in the mainstream and of course the the the Netflix of of the world the Netflix of the world are really hard to say are really the way that you know people are starting to to consume their video entertainment it's the streaming options that are growing you know this whole cord cutting thing is a real phenomenon and the on demand stuff that you can stream anytime you want really seems to be the future of our viewing appetite Yeah I agree and I agree so great so we have everything that is you know I you know there's still like there's a lot of formats that mainstream hasn't adopted and I don't think they will because mainstream is about storytelling and we have some of those elements but for the most part we have a lot of just educational stuff if you want to learn about things like go back to Grace's or this person's 911 opinion the way that they say it isn't going to be completely edited like it would be mainstream Have you had any personal paranormal experiences whether it's u.f.o. Or other. I have not had a u.f.o. Experience it's the 1st question everyone always asked me because I cover so much alien stuff. But I have had strange supernatural experiences I haven't really seen goes but I've had some strange experience it was specially in some of the ancient places that I've been where I can feel energies and I see weird things and. I don't know how to explain it but just only some weird experiences but I believe in all that stuff so I kind of told the universe I don't want to see a u.f.o. Landing in my yard I do believe that they are out there we've done shop in my yard . On your front yard I don't I don't need the proof Ok I had no need I noticed speaking one of those mystical places that you spent time you've spent some time in Egypt that must have been an amazing experience that was pretty amazing and I'm going back there to to to shoot actually next month and I got the experience of going to scout for the shoot which of course is much slower so you get to really spend time in these places alone and feel the energy and figure out like what you know what's the story I'm going to tell here. And we were accompanied by the sea Gyptian archaeologist to can read every single hieroglyph which is amazing because every room you would go you're like what happened here you would read the walls you've chosen exactly what ritual was performed and what you know food they're eating and what they were drinking and all I can stuff. And I did have some really strange experiences just just like feelings of things that were there and then having like strange dreams for like weeks after. So I'm like so there was an energy that that you felt while you were there and it kind of. In some way affected your psyche of little bit oh yeah it. It is weird like this some of the places I went were were darker and I could see it was like I could feel like the hair like the little hairs in the back of my neck stand up you know and. It's like. They're like trying to like encompass me well. When. More entrenched when we get back from the break we're going to talk about the Nazca mommies will start that conversation but since we're talking about Egypt often when you say the word mommy uniquely think of Egyptian culture in an ancient Egypt but they weren't the only culture that was actually practicing cation of corpses right now course there's. Several. Places about America that do something and when we when we start talking about the Nazca mummies we're also talking about an area of proof that is known for a lot of other very very interesting features that still are yet to be explained and among those I would say would be the Nascar lines. So the area itself has has plenty of interesting features and obviously has a very mystical connection so before we go to the break here and I know we're going to spend a great deal of time talking about the documentary and the mummies themselves but we're Can people actually see this documentary. And you can actually go to Gaia shows of the plane and you can watch the full documentary and it's a little bit over an hour. And I think I think if you don't have a guy membership I think like 99 percent that sign up for a month and you watch a documentary so you just have to have access to it online and you can watch it there Ok All right so we're going to break we'll go to break here a guest tonight Melissa tiddle she is the director of original content for the Gaia streaming service and we're talking about a documentary she produced called unearthing Nast now ska the complete story which is a documentary about the mysterious mummies that were unearthed in Nazca Peru as I said in the 2nd hour of the program we will take your phone calls if you have questions or comments at 844-687-7669 it's beyond reality radio we have a lot of show left don't go away. Ok Ok nose towards shark timber here. America is kept safe because the Army National Guard responds protects and supports our nation when it needs the most from fighting wildfires with air support helping civilians in flooded neighborhoods to delivering food and supplies to those who have lost everything the Army National Guard always responds when disaster strikes the Army National Guard also trains to be ever vigilant against threats foreign and domestic They protect our skies with missile defense weaponry they secure our information communications and infrastructure with cybersecurity and they protect us against chemical biological and radiological hazards with the civilian support team the Army National Guard also stands ready to deploy and provide support for conflicts or humanitarian missions abroad joined the Army National Guard and be there to respond protect and support your community and your country visit National Guard dot com to learn more about part time service sponsored by the Colorado Army National Guard by the Colorado Broadcasters Association and this station who do I perform for. 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Johnson thank you for being with us tonight our guest tonight Melissa total we're talking about her film the film she produced it's a documentary called Honor thing now SCA the complete story Melissa is the director of original content for the guy a streaming service list as we start talking about these Mom used for people that haven't heard this story at all kind of lay it out for us what happened how were these things found and what exactly are they and this is all pre research so just on the surface what are we looking at. I mean to start from the very beginning sure sir for the very beginning I'd be perfect. Ok. So the bodies were discovered by Kara's in 20160 kero is basically a Tomb Raider the great robber. And. We you know we can say that for a while because we actually weren't sure who they were but but the thing with and this is illegal in Peru because they don't want people digging up dead bodies write that they want those people to be rigidly part of the ministry of culture however and you know by the way Guy doesn't condone this at all I'll get to the point of how we found out about this however there has been a lot of stories in history and some of the most famous fine have been found by these very same people that then sell them to archaeologists and they go and check out the site and then it becomes a massive site where they're able to find out more about history again guy is not condoning this but this is how this all started these people. Discovered this cave . And they. They didn't kind of know what to do but they knew that there was another French archaeologist in Cusco and his name was Terry I mean and he. I guess he had dealt with somebody from this team before so they called him and they said hey we have this we would find would you like to take a look he said yes. And then he didn't know what to make of it and then he. Contacted. Somebody they got a hold of us. And we don't really know to think about it anyway I mean could be you know we saw some pictures really could this be could this be real you know I don't know we thought well let's let's go check it out let's let's bring like one camera guy and and just see what it is that was basically like in fact we don't even think it was going to be anything we just thought let's go check it out and if it if it's something of interest then we will pursue it but I think. Guys motto has never as always been you know if it. Were not we want to just find out the truth about things right meaning we want to dig deeper and the things that other people well so if other people think that it's not real well we'll give it a try and we'll look for ourselves I mean you're kind of the whole do you know your objective attack point was to uncover the truth about these is best you could write right and even if it meant that somebody was doing a huge hoax and they wanted us to come down take a look was we want to say that it like it wasn't about we just want to get something on camera was this basically like what Find out what it so we went down there and then we were we were show we were shown. 2 little bodies and then a big body. They were given names without knowing the sex with them but there was the 2 little bodies or were named Josephine a and l. Byrd and the and the big one the other body was almost like a human sized body I think when it I think they measured it and I think it was maybe what if it could stand up maybe like 57 and this body was. Kind of like in a fetal position that was holding its knees and in Peru there is a lot of there's a lot of mommies that that have the position where they're holding their knees but this this one was completely different it wasn't in the traditional way that you look at the other Peruvian mummies and it looks completely different and had 3 fingers and 3 toes and the skull was a long gaited and the sockets were bigger the sockets were bigger but everything else about the body Doxil torso looked pretty normal it looked like a human body so of course there's a couple things that are red flags so there's this the bodies are all covering it's white powder So what was that white powder number 2 could somebody have just altered the fingerling potatoes. And created and maybe put in made some kind of skull to make it look a long good. And so those wrong those were all red flags. But it's like even when you would you know when you're really close to this thing and are analyzing it and you get to poke it it doesn't feel like. So we thought Ok well let's just let's just get some x. Rays Let's get enough training and see what we think and get some experts to look at x. Rays and and tell us this is this fake or is biological is is has there been any altering of the fingers you know if you live in hell that kind of stuff on x. Rays. And that's what we did so we we took some samples skin samples there is actually skin that that that is covering the bodies. The small ones and the and the large room. And. And then we actually and we took samples of the white powder comes we want to find out what that was and the x. Rays of course they're immediate So we were able to look at those and then we brought them to where there's experts with us from. From Russia and Mexico and and then of course the actual facility that we did it in in Cusco all of all of those people had comments on it but then I took those x. Rays to a radiologist in at the Denver University. Hospital there and shoot she took a look and she couldn't find any place of altered bones and the bones all had a signature they were biological bones they were not made out of plastic they were making some synthetic material because they would have had a different you in the x. Ray. And so it's so here we were at this point. What is it right that nobody seems to have any answers things lots of people on the internet that I kept saying oh well you know plaster of Paris writing white powder . Or is somebody made it. You know it's somebody just put together a bunch of animal bones and you know glued it all together. And so I want to say that you know I as much as I and we started off the show saying you know I've also had an affinity for things that could not be explained but I'm not one to come out and say it was definitely an alien or this is definitely a werewolf or you know I'm always the person who finds it interesting trends to gather the facts and then says you know what do you think type of thing I've never in my entire career have come out and said that something is something and that's because that to me is not a journalist so. Instead of saying Ok all these people that have become now experts on the Internet could be wrong I decided to do my due diligence and and send it to places that do strict Paris right and I called them and I sent them all the x. Rays and at this point we did c.t. Scans which even give it a more in-depth look at the structure of the bodies the bones and everything. And they said that you want us to make this and I said yes how much of the cost can you do it and they said that this is a real body and I said yeah but can you do it and they said no. And I said Ok You sure could you could you make me a mold maybe no. And then I. I just you know I wanted to see it in Could you really make skin out of melting a bunch of animal skin together could you and then could you somehow to publish animal bones and glue them together and I call the taxidermist and he thought I was crazy and I'm like no occasion for real Could you could you melt all the the animal skin together and then somehow make a skin on top of a body that you glued together a whole bunch of different animal bones and they were like No no that's impossible I'm like Ok let me know if it works out. Let me know if you figure out how to do that you know I wasn't. Is it was funny because I couldn't really tell the people what I was asking for you know like was asking for and I just literally sounded like a crazy person calling all these people. Because I didn't want them to form an opinion Right right I didn't I didn't want them to look up the knives to story I didn't want to look at me I wanted them to just answer like they would as an expert of their expertise as you will learn more about this particularly the very beginning when you learned of the discovery of these mummies did you get information about how they were being housed when they were found what their what within within some kind of caskets or circus or you know do you know anything about how they were kept. From you know the elements over the course of whatever it is 1500 years. Well these are the things that are for the baby. They were found in the cave I'm not sure the cave that they showed us is a bright. You know there is a lot of teams a lot of deception within this whole thing and if you watch the documentary you'll see it all it's the. The long journey of trying to find the answers because just like you know as archaeologists and anthropologists they don't want to get involved because the actual location where they were found was not revealed not only not to us but but so we couldn't like say Hey would you like to take a look because they don't want to put their hands on something that but obviously didn't come from an origin because then the origin tells more about but right now I totally understand and respect that and I also understand that. The Keros. Wanted to keep that a secret because they were making money off it so it's it's it was a sticky situation but again the idea was to find out the truth and to get it into the hands of the authorities in Peru and see what they want to do with it. So the thing is is that the powder on the l. Part of the body was tested and it came back and diatomaceous earth I don't have that piece of paper in front of me right now I can tell you exactly the mineral makeup but the mineral makeup of that that is diatomaceous earth match the mineral makeup of a certain area and palpable so I don't think that they're completely line but where they found the bodies I just don't know if the cave that they showed us is the actual cave or the body came from but the test did come back as I said to my sisters and so died from a sister is a dying off of. And someone told me in a correct me of I don't believe like marine life that dries up in and like a field place like a cave and it actually preserves the body and so that is what was covering all these bodies like literally dries out the skin. And and so yes it is so there is some linkage to the area where they found it was which is helpful and and that mineral make up not just it so that's kind of what and of course is very dry there there's nothing green micros in the very air it is completely bone dry so it's a perfect place to preserve bodies I mean if you just you were talking about Egypt in the beginning of this Egypt like the Valley of the Kings where of course there's all these tombs it's a perfect place it's very dry it's the same kind of set up there's not one green thing that's growing right there of course they had extreme measures of preserving the body with pointman So that kind of thing but but b. But because Irving process was perfect the temperature was perfect or the place was perfect and where these bodies were found was also in that kind of temperature how many of them were found in total. There is 6 products with a almost same condition and they all know what in the same condition. Yes . So they all and they all had the same powdery substance on their skin and yeah Ok All right we have to go to break away come back we'll continue this conversation we're talking with Melissa tittle tonight she is the director of original content for the Gaia streaming service and we're talking about a documentary she produced called unearthing Nasco the complete story which is about the mysterious mummies that were unearthed in Nascar Peru it's beyond reality radio we will be right back. And still I found in the attic is cursing The Who with its own eyes are just very I thought I was expected to spend. An hour that is scary. Let's play with another topic we can just bury it deep in the ground at the Geico we download the industry leading Geico act today Hi I'm Jay foreigner c.e.o. Of Quicken Loans America's largest mortgage lender Let's talk credit card debt for a minute if you feel you're carrying too much of it you're not alone the average household in the u.s. 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Football Night in northern Colorado is back and better than ever joy at every Friday night from 5 to 6 30 pm as he sets the table for a busy weekend of football countertops the preps night ahead local college teams in action and of course the Denver Broncos football night in northern Colorado driven by Dr Wise. Only Northern Colorado football station 13 Tim a k f k a. I play for. Complete high school basketball for every ball and we have a play a pickup game on a driveway playground at because we all share the same drink up like the bus of the big time board game theory brain make up play high school basketball for chance to put my hometown of Colorado on the map plan a state championship. Only one half of one percent of all high school student athletes play basketball in college but all 100 percent of them become adults That's why playing basketball in their high school team is so important high school lastly to learn life lessons that help them grow up lessons that can't be taught in the classroom and often aren't taught at home I played high school basketball because I love performing in front of a capacity crowd to my hometown send this message presented by the Colorado high school activities Association and the Colorado athletic directors Association. And the colors football team to. Fire back welcome back to be on reality radio. Difficult take your phone calls in the 2nd hour of the program at 844-687-7669 we're talking tonight with Melissa tittle the director of original content for the Gaia streaming service and we're talking about the Nascar mommies and Melissa short segment here but when you 1st got this information you said you took a camera man you took some folks you went to prove to check this out did you intend on making a documentary film at that point. No. I mean we wanted to we wanted to see what you know which is one of the compared sure I wanted to see on the document what we were going down there for which is to see what it was but let's be honest like you . I and many other people on my team had no idea that we would be chasing the same really 2 years and that's what that's what it was start to finish from when you got the information to when you had the film produced it was a 2 year process. As that 2 years unfolded did you. Come to the point where you started to question maybe some of your beliefs as you started to learn more about these figures and where they came from or where they potentially came from. You know I was very careful not to let my money a nation run away with itself you know if if these things you're aliens What does that mean do they crash land here you know all that stuff right could be possible but. That I just wouldn't let myself go there because I felt that then I was doing a disservice to the actual cake because that's what I was wrong like Eventually I realized oh this is this thing we're not quitting we're going to we're going to try to gather as much evidence as possible make sure that it gets into the hands of the right people the Ministry of Culture the proving government and then they can finish the test in a secure lab but. I just don't want to go there I think that it's very fantastical I've covered lots of things like that but but to be in it and to like to be able to touch these bodies and be able to analyze them and and be in the mix of that I thought if I just started thinking that they were aliens. I don't think that I would be able to do just that story I would be able to look at it from a bigger run yeah what it would influence the direction you took it I'm sure if you had their preconceived idea we have to go to break here but before we do you have a bunch of things going on working people follow you maybe get more information about you and or obviously. From guy you know to Guide dot com and you can watch you personally can watch 7 of the of 9 now for free but the documentary is behind a paywall guide. And then for me my name Melissa that hill. Dot com Now I started one of the civil dot com which is my Web site and then also. To a plug I just want to pod cast called Cosmic Cantina you can learn about all of my weird journeys there in fact I was going to ask you about it will do that on the other side of the break it's beyond reality radio will be right back. J.f.k. Bringing news sports and talk to another in Colorado this is 1310 j.f.k. And really lovely in Fort Collins in Lima e.v.c. News I'm Dave Schreiber members of Congress are concerned that possible sanctions on Turkey that President Trump has talked about in recent days may be too late to stop the bloodshed in northern Syria it b.c. Senior foreign correspondent Ian Powell was in Syria reporting Russian backed Syrian forces may step in to defend the Kurds the Turkish military is one of the biggest if not the biggest inside NATO after America its highly trained highly equipped has sophisticated weapons and was throwing everything it had against a very lightly armed guerrilla force people have been saying will be giving them lots of weapons and lots of training but actually they don't have lots of weapons and so the Kurds were left with no choice and so the only option was to get into bed with the devil they knew and the devil they knew was bashed or last out he has a big army a.b.c. Senior foreign correspondent Ian. Panel in Syria this is a.b.c. 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