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Are you troubled by our culture and the way we react to religious social and political issues confronting our world today hear from Pastor a k thrower of spirit in truth church as he shares a biblical perspective that guides toward peace and how we can respond as God's people Spirit in truth church is a non-denominational truly multicultural church that seeks to unite all denominations races classes and divisions of any kind tune into Heaven help Fridays at 6 pm coming up at 3 o'clock freedom to choose the rich and Susan Collins comes from here I'm Dave Diamond in the crosswalk dot com studio So let's listen together Hope you're hungry and thirsty for the Word of God That's coming up 3 o'clock right now we're going to get things started with Bible teacher Steve Gregg and the narrow path a 4 for 4 for. I've 737 Time now for the narrow path. Good afternoon and welcome to the narrow path radio broadcast money Steve cranking where live for an hour each weekday afternoon including today and we take your phone calls during this hour if you have questions you'd like to call in about questions about the Bible or about the Christian faith or your Christian life we'll talk to you about whatever's on your mind and if you have a different viewpoint from that of the host and want to talk about that we welcome you to call and discuss those matters as well just. Use this phone number 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 you can get through to me here during this hour. But tomorrow night I'll be speaking in Washington here in the Seattle area Mercer Island I'll also be speaking Sunday afternoon in Seattle both of these meetings are held in homes you can go to our website the narrow path dot com and look at the tab that says announcements and find out about how to find these homes and if you want to join us we have a lot of Seattle area listeners have to join us that's what these meetings are for and they're going to be open q. And a meetings also in discussions so feel free to join us if you're free and if you want to do something that's tomorrow night and on Sunday afternoon and the information about those meetings is at our website the narrow past dot com under the tab that says announcements All right we're going to go right to the phone lines today and talk to Cheryl from Lincoln California Cheryl welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. Hi Steve thank you so much I'm on speakers that destructive I think you are because. It might be clearer if you weren't but if you have no speaker we can just get close enough that speak loudly enough we can hear you Ok so I could do with. Israel and in the Old Testament and I was having it the 2nd time I went to Bible study and we were talking about how the kingdom split with rebel and the son of Solomon Yeah. There was some discussion about. If that was really the 1st time a split so I started reading backwards during David King David Ray and when Absalom his son was Welles there was a lot of talk about Israel. In that so I'm my question is. Was there a split it's. When just went off well in the reign of rehab there was official split where the. The one nation of Israel became 2 nations and they had 2 different kings because Jeroboam became the king of the Northern 10 tribes and re of all remained the king of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin which became a separate nation so that's the only time the nation really split now in Absalom or for that matter even before Absalom when David was. When Saul was killed after he was chasing David around the people of the tribe of Judah asked David to come be their king now the northern 10 tribes still followed. The fish at c.v.s. Be shot out of the son of Saul and so he was king for a little while over the northern tribes That's because after Saul died who was the 1st Cain. There had been no real official arrangements made for how he would be succeeded and therefore there was some confusion about who was going to be the king the chef was the son of Saul and therefore many felt like he should be the king in place of his father but the tribe of Judah because David was of the tribe of Judah I think they they tended to favor David to be their king and therefore they asked him to be king before the others did now for a few years 7 years actually David did rule over Judah separately and remained a king over the the northern tribes but they. I think they still consider themselves one nation they were just some sort of a nation with a civil war going on it wasn't really like they became 2 permanent Nations it was like Israel was having a civil war and David was the leader in the south and the north and. Eventually killed a couple of the servants and that the tribes of the North submitted to David then and then the nation was united so there was a bit of a division there right after Saul's death just because there was no default. Succession to the to the throne Godhead even during Saul's lifetime had anointed David to be the next king but that was not publicly and so the people of the of the northern tribes especially because they weren't of the tribe of Judah and David was they tended to favor. You know it because he was the king's son now there was rivalry between different tribes at different times even in the in the book of Judges sometimes the tribes got angry at each other there was a time when all the tribes came against Benjamin and almost wiped out the tribe of Benjamin one of the 12 tribes we can say the nations kind of divided them but again it was a civil war it was not really divided into 2 kingdoms. And there were other times in period of the judges when Gideon drove out the midnights some of the tribes were upset with him because they he didn't call on them immediately to join him in the battle and so there's some there was some tension between. Different tribes because of tribal patriotism I guess we could say tribal pride and there were times when you know there was fighting between tribes but it wasn't really the case that the nation divided permanently into 2 kingdoms until the time of reform but there were there were these divisions and civil wars and stuff and for that let's go. If we were going forward with the diet we are trying to determine when the Jews were really that out there when the we're really bother to watch. The For that we didn't do 48. 0 well 1st of all the northern kingdom was wiped out by the Assyrians in 722 b.c. And then later the southern kingdom was taken into captivity in Babylon by never taken as or not was in 586 b.c. But that wasn't permanent they did indeed lose their lands I mean they it was totally wiped out that you know their cities were burned down the temples burned down the people were all deported Judah had lost their land that God had warned that that would happen but he said he would restore them to their land again too and he did at the end of the Babylonian exile the Jews some of them went back and they did restart their kingdom so even though they had lost their land they regained it and one might say they didn't really lose it permanently at that time but the Jews lived in the land until 7080 from that point on but the majority of Jews were still scattered throughout the world in the diaspora. Ok very good good as a lot of history to kind of kept away but that helps give me a mental guide appreciate it all right. Let's go talk to. Ok our next caller is d.l. From Temecula d.l. Welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. Are you there. Was. Going to hang up if you're not there are you there. Yet comedian Hello yes speak to speak loudly and your phone I'll be able to hear yes go ahead. I know what that could mean I think I know what the problem is Ok the problem system. Can you hear me now yes better Ok great Ok this last question I ended up getting into a conversation with a few folks. Because one woman felt that if you prayed the sinners prayer then you're safe and I pulled up I tried to go on some of the verses from 1st John 1st John to you know 3 and 4 which is if you've come to know him you'll keep this commandment you know in 15 were talks about if we love the world you know we don't love the fall in love with a father's not a new kind of thing and one of the women in particular got pretty upset with me. She felt that you know using those kind of evidences I was being very judgmental and whom I to judge and her one of her main arguments was that there are a lot of carnal Christians in the world and we would never say they weren't saved so just because someone's carnal who are we to judge their let's say. And so we need to ask ourselves maybe we wouldn't say they're not safe the real question is does God say they're not safe I don't see how you can be called Judge Mental if you simply quote what the Scripture says all right and I think to me I've been pondering this whole notion of a carnal Christian because it really kind of struck me almost like oxymoron to me and I was wondering if we get this idea of carnal Christian because. You know what saved always saved but then I had to tell him he asked if he said if you were worldly you're probably never saved in the 1st place some really feeling a bit confused about it like you said some light on it well it depends what you call carnal Christian because the word carnal just means fleshly and in a sense everybody's fleshly because we have we have a flash but Paul said to be fleshly mind you are carnally minded is death so even though we are all fleshly we all have a flesh we're not all carnally minded. A person is carnally minded apparently is not a believer in Christ and being Carlie might have been Paul said in Romans 8 you know the carnal mind is set on the things of the flesh and not on the things of the Spirit of God So. Paul did talk to the Corinthians whom he assumed were saints he referred to them as saints in Christ and yet he did say they were carnal but he used the term in that case. Synonymously with him it sure I'm talking at 1st Corinthians 3 he says when I was with you I could not deal with you as under spirit as with spiritual men but and as to carnal people I had just I had to feed you with milk and not with solid food because you are immature your babes in Christ your carnal Now Paul seem to indicate that a person in who is not a mature Christian. Might exhibit this in certain carnal ways of acting. But. Still a person is a real Christian has it in their heart to be obedient to God. Because of immaturity or weakness sometimes a carnal new baby Christian may fall or stumble. Into sin once in a while more than a mature Christian would but they still want to do well if a person wants to if a person is a born again person their heart is on God's side and they want to be obedient to God And so when your friend said there's a lot of carnal Christians I don't know that she was really saying anything that makes a good Scriptural argument if there are carnal Christians there shouldn't be Paul with Paul didn't think it was a good thing that there should be but he did indicate that the current the ins who were apparently Christians were also carnal but by that he meant their babes in Christ there really they haven't grown spiritually at all and so they have I guess a lot more of the the thoughts and the and the attitudes of someone who isn't saved because their minds have not been renewed very thoroughly yet of course the older we are in the faith and the more we meditate on the Word of God the more we learn the more our minds are transformed and we don't think like we used to think about things but lots of Christians haven't been very transformed in many respects and they still think like carnal people do but one thing all Christians have in common is they are determined to follow Jesus and when you find somebody who isn't determined to follow Jesus it doesn't matter how many sinners prayers they've said they're not Christians I would ask your friend when you say that person is saved by saying to sinners prayer could you tell me one place in the Bible who or someone got saved Cena sinners prayer. Or a place in the Bible that says that people get saved by saying the sinners prayer you know the Bible does not say say a sinners prayer and you'll be saved it says you have to believe you have to repent and you have to have after eyes and you need to follow Christ I mean these this is what becoming a Christian means it's not just saying a prayer lots of people say prayers that they hardly mean and so saying the prayer doesn't doesn't prove anything about a person Remember Jesus said no not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of My Father in heaven that's Jesus teaching so if maybe these women go to a church where they've been told you just say this prayer and you'll be saved I've certainly gone to churches that say that but the Bible doesn't say that and because of that I think these churches have sometimes given people a false assurance and people who have never really gotten saved in biblical terms. Have jumped through the hoop that the preacher told them they need to do and they've repeated a prayer that they call the center and then they've been assured by the pastor that they're now saying that I don't think that's a I don't see anyone in the Bible doing that you don't find anyone getting saved by saying the sinners prayer you don't find any of the preachers telling people to say a sinners prayer and you don't find any of the teaching of Scripture either in Jesus or Paul or Peter or anywhere else saying that we should. Say a sinners prayer in order to be saved you become as you become saved by becoming a follower of Christ now that might begin with a prayer for some people for most people perhaps a prayer of repentance perhaps but it's not the prayer it's it's the discipleship it's the it's the change it's being converted Savior and converted means change so I'm not you know I realize where he's laser coming from because I myself have. I was raised in a church where I would have said some of the same things they said until I actually studied the Bible but there's not one word in Scripture in support of what I was teaching and you know a lot of time we just said well if my pastor said it must be true and the pastor probably thinks it is true because his pastor told him that when he was younger or his 5 school taught him that but the real question is What does God say when we think about it really carefully you realize that if we had lived let's say around the year 1100 or 1200 in Europe we would have been Roman Catholic because there weren't there really weren't options the Roman Catholic Church was the only institutional church in Western Europe now of course the Eastern Orthodox church was there after after the 11th century but but in the West if you are Christian and that's for all the way from Britain to Germany or wherever you would be a Roman Catholic. And yet we know I think you and I would agree that the Roman Catholic faith doesn't express salvation in the same terms of the Bible does Exactly and therefore if someone said well I know I'm safe because the priest tells me so because are all the all the Christians I know say this so I know you know the church tells me this well you know where Martin Luther branched off was he said I think we need to go by what the Bible says not by what the priest say and yet many Protestants who think they are in the line of Luther as. Protestants. They still go by what their priest or pastor says or what their theologians say they don't go by what the Bible says. And they get upset when you tell them what the Bible says It's interesting that people would do that they think it said I know they will I know some people who do but it is interesting that they do wonder why people get upset when you tell them what the Bible says so what is our role as far as looking at the evidence I mean are we not if we see someone who call themselves a Christian but they're not you know necessarily they know who look like one I mean are we just I don't it well what is it you know where it is probably not mentally. It's more important that God knows that they're Christians and that we do I don't have to convince anybody I'm a Christian except God and He knows you know if everyone who listen to this radio show that I don't think Steve's a Christian Well it's not my response really make you think I'm a Christian it's my responsibility to be a Christian and if no one thinks I am so what. When I stand before God he'll know and he doesn't know so it's not my place either to decide if somebody else is a Christian my place is to preach what it means to be a Christian and if somebody is doing that doing what the Bible says a Christian does that I have a pretty good reason to suspect that they're really a Christian. If they're not doing it then I'm not so sure what to think because they might be a weak Christian or they might be somebody who is not even a Christian but this thinks they are I think in many cases it's the latter I think a lot of people have been told that they are Christians by their churches because they've been told you get saved by saying a prayer and since the Bible doesn't teach that I would put no confidence and that message I would never think I was saved because I servicers prayer I because the Bible doesn't tell me that I can be saved by saying the sinners prayer but I am safe because I have Christ the bottle says he that has the Son has life and he that has not the Son of God has not life now how do I know if someone else has the Son of God Well he's going to want to hear she is going to want to follow Christ if they're not doing it very well then it's really god's to know whether they are really saved or not but if they don't repent when they're confronted about sin then there's such a thing as church discipline Jesus said If your brother sins against you go to him just you and him and try to some straight if he hears you that's the end of it and it's fine if he doesn't hear you take 2 witnesses so that in the mouth of 2 or more every word should be established if you hears them that's fine but if you won't then take it before the church and if they won't hear the church then he said let that person be to you like a heathen or a tax collector Now Jesus didn't say they are a heathen but you should you can't assume them to be anything else you see I can't assume that a person who is misbehaving by my standards doesn't look much like a Christian I can't assume that they're not a Christian unless they're done denouncing the Lord or clearly you know in rebellion against God that I can be pretty sure that a person but when I see a person who thinks they're Christian and tries to be Chris. But they fail a great deal and they seem to repent but they still can't continue failing Well I can't say for sure they're not a Christian they might be a struggling Christian but. But Jesus said If they won't repent when they're confronted then you have to at least treat them as if they're not a Christian you can't let them be part of the church he's sane because it was God God will have be their ultimate judge but as far as the evidence they're giving the church the church has to not treat them as if they're Christian because they're not giving enough evidence of being a Christian and the Bible definitely makes it very clear that being a Christian produces evidence and 1st John those chapters you're talking about talk about that a great deal Ok. But we don't have to decide we don't have to decide that someone is or isn't a Christian we can we here's here's why if I see somebody whose behavior is a Christian then my role is to try to encourage them to be more obedient to God and. You know if they are a Christian they still need to be more obedient to God We all do if they're not a Christian then they need to be told that they're not being obedient to God and that's a that's one of those things that would be an indicator that maybe you're not a Christian I think a person has to judge himself and then of course if someone lives in sin without repenting after confronted then the church has to treat them as if they're not a Christian but ultimately I can't say who is and who isn't a Christian and God someone who's going to side that finally you know I think it's sort of care about because. Most of all we see a believer what he said sent his prayer but yes you need a Bible and then really you know show anything on the why the ball then he was saved and I was kind of saying well not necessarily. I would say I just thought I would say you said not necessarily Yeah I I I wouldn't say she's not safe because I wouldn't know you know I mean if if she said the sinners prayer and really meant to repent if she really meant to be surrendering to Christ as her lord but nobody discipled her then she might never have shown very much evidence of being a changed person because a lot of times people are told once that once they're led to the Lord they're not told what it means to be a follower of Christ and that's why Jesus said Go and make disciples teaching them to observe everything I've come in to you they have been taught people actually taught to observe what Jesus commanded and some people are not because the churches aren't doing it oh Ok On the other hand I just one other point one other point if a person really is born or got born again I don't know why they wouldn't read the Bible. You know because if you're a newborn baby you can desire milk and I can't imagine a person not wanting to read the Bible and lest they haven't been taught clearly that the Bible is the Word of God you know if they don't think it's the Word of God I can see why they wouldn't read it if they're born again they're going to want to read the Word of God if they know that's what it is but there's a lot of confusion lot of lives a lot of people been lied to by the world and they haven't been told the truth enough by the church Ok All right thanks for your call Thank you Ok bye now all right. We'll talk next to Robert from Riverside California and Robert I'm going to just say we may get cut off here in the middle of our call in which case I'll hold you over the break at the bottom of the hour and resume talking with you the go ahead let's get started. So they could question actually my belief in the radio show for a while and also I've been hearing that when you die you go to heaven if you believe and I've heard this all my life basically just recently my wife data passed and i Photo always son Heaven is here with the Lord and he was faithful 'd. That are like a week later I was this is a paper in 'd Dr Germ I was in a sermon and he said that when we die we don't go to heaven 'd where like we were God we were not in Heaven yet so I confused on what's really happening. Well I'm not sure I'm not sure what David Jeremiah said but you might have misunderstood him because I'd be surprised if he doesn't believe the same thing that I believe because I mean there's a pretty standard Christian understanding of the scriptures about this there are some who differ from it there are some who hold to a doctor called soul sleep and they wouldn't agree with this but most Christians agree that when you die if you're a Christian your spirit goes to be with God and that is in fact in heaven that you're absent from the body present with the Lord as Paul says in 2nd Corinthians 5 and yet your body is here and maybe that's what he meant maybe he meant to say your body isn't alive in heaven your body is right here until the resurrection and that's true because I think the Bible teaches that our spirit departs from our body the time that we die and goes to be with the Lord and then our body remains in the ground of course until Jesus comes back and raised from the dead and then our spirit then of course lives in our bodies in the new heavens and a new earth that Christ comes to create That's what I have seen the Bible to teach and I guess I'm not going to hold you over because I think we covered a question I need to take a break here but I hope that's helpful to you we have some of our stations are going to be disconnecting from the show right now because they only take the 1st half hour we have another half hour live and you can catch it if you want to listen from the website or on the web on the app the website is the narrow path dot com For those of you who are leaving I need to let you know that we are a listener supported ministry you can go to our website the narrow path dot com and see how to donate if you wish but we have no expenses except to pay for the radio time so go to the narrow path dot com and see how you can help us down the air the rest of you please stay tuned for 30 seconds and we'll be right back. You were listening to the narrow band was Steve Gregg the narrow path his listener supported radio after the show we invite you to visit the narrow path dot com to learn more there are topical audio teachings and blog articles and verse by verse teachings and the radio archives of all our shows so when the show is over come on over to the narrow path dot com learn study enjoy We thank you for your support and we thank you for listening each day to the narrow path We now return you to the narrow path with Steve Gregg. All right we're back welcome back to the narrow path radio broadcast my name is Steve Greg We are live we're taking phone calls if you'd like to ask questions about the battle of the Christian faith or you like to call to disagree with the host Feel free to do that the number to call is 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 our next caller is Everett from cent public California Everett Welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. People because. When I was still have. One of the level of the 5. Of the 4 that great a little bit of a lot come. Out other question. By ballot so inhale. The whole of the sequence and tell. What tell. Me Ok I'll be glad to discuss that now both of those come from Peter sermon and. The 1st thing you asked is his quotation from Joel. He said this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel Now of course he's explaining to the curiouser crowd why it was that the Holy Spirit was now fallen upon the church on the on the Christians and that was seen by the fact that they were speaking in tongues and people wondered why are they how they learned to speak these languages that we understand but they we know they don't know these languages how they notice how to speak our language and Peter says well this is what was prophesied by Joel and he quotes told chapter 2 which says and it should come to pass in the last day says God that I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh your sons and your daughters had prophesied your young men shall see visions your old Michel dream dreams and all my servants and my handmaidens I will pour out my spirit in those days and they shall prophesied now that much of course was being observed that the Holy Spirit had been poured out on them you're asking about the next part of the prophecy which wasn't observed at that point in time he says and I will show wonders in heaven above signs in the earth beneath blood and fire and vapor of smoke the sun should be turned to darkness the moon into blood before the coming of the great an awesome day of the Lord and it should come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved so he talked about the outpoint of the Holy Spirit and then he talks about this devastation this fire and this blood and the smoke which is obviously a judgment Well Peter could have stopped quoting before he got that part but he didn't he quoted that part too he could have just quoted the part about the outpoint a Holy Spirit if that's all he wanted to talk of but he believed that he was living in the time. When God was transitioning from the age of the law to the age of the spirit and this was something the prophets talked about Peter was right by the way he was not wrong he was correct he was living at the time that God was transitioning from the age of the law to the age of the Spirit for 1400 years God's people had to serve God under the terms of the Mosaic law the laws God gave to Moses and even as Peter was speaking there was still a Jewish temple and sacrifices being offered by priests and so forth just like Moses had it had ordered but also something else had happened Jesus had come and she says had established a new cabinet and he had sent His Holy Spirit right there on the day of Pentecost and so the age of the spirit was inaugurated but the age of the law had to come to an end because the Bible says where there's a new covenant the old one is obsolete so the old covenant of the law is now obsolete the Jews who rejected Christ still you know consider the law to be mandatory and they still worship God strictly according to the sacrificial system. But it was obsolete they were doing it but it was necessary and God was in observing it and the writer of Hebrews says that which is obsolete is about ready to vanish away he means the old system was about ready to disappear and that was going to come when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem and destroyed the temple it was permanently destroyed they burned it down it was a terrible holocaust the historians that were there like Josephus. Tell us that it was a bloodbath it was a horrible Holocaust the Romans came they broke through the walls they slaughtered 700000 Jews. And the ones that have already slaughtered each other during the siege and they burned down the temple it burned down the city there was fire there's blood and there was a vapor of smoke darkening the sky the sky was dark and so the sun was dark and the moon looked like blood just like it does sometimes down here in Southern California where when it really smog there's not as much smog as when I was growing up down here but used to be very common place on a very small the day to see the moon look literally fire engine red blood red and that's what happens when there's smoke in the sky sometimes that the sun is darkened by the clouds the smoke dark in the sky the moon look blood red and these are things that happened because of the judgment that came on the old system so Peter is saying we're living at that time that Joel spoke about Joel said there would come a time when God would inaugurate the age of the spirit and heart of spirit and all flesh and then he would destroy the old system with fire and smoke and bloodshed and so forth and basically that was the age they were living in Peter's generation lived to see both those events remember Jesus talked about the destruction of Jerusalem he said some of you standing here will not taste death before you see this he said so that this generation will not pass before it happens so Peter and his listeners were living in the transition generation between the inauguration of the new age of the spirit of and the old age of the law and that's what he's referring to Joel mentioned both of them now when he spoke about you will not leave my soul in Hades there he's actually quoting from Psalm 16 he's quoting David. You're reading the King James version which says you will not leave my soul in hell but actually the word in the Greek is not Hell the word is Hades and Hades is not Hell it's based on that one verse primarily that the doctrine has arisen that Jesus went to hell because this is talking about Jesus when he says you will not leave my soul the King James says you will not leave my soul in hell and Peter says yeah his soul was not left in hell he was raised from the dead which suggests that he was in hell and then he was raised from the dead however the word hell is not the best translation of the word Hades Hades was not the place where the wicked go as hell is Hades was the place where everyone goes everyone who died went to Hades in the Old Testament is the Hebrew word shale in the New testament to the Greek word Hades and that that was simply meaning the place of the dead sometimes the word Hades is translated the grave and so to say you will not leave my soul in Hades is simply saying you will not leave me dead you will not leave me in the grave and so that's that's really probably. The most we can get from that statement in Psalm 16 and Peter quoting it here in Acts 2 actually Paul actually quotes that same verse about the resurrection of Christ about his soul was not left in Hades over in Acts 13 in his 1st sermon and to sit in Antioch there so this Psalm 16 is quoted by both Peter and Paul as referring to the resurrection of Christ that he he did go to the place of the dead but he was not left there God brought him up alive again and that's what the Scriptures predicted. Thank you very much appreciate it and I look. All right ever thank God bless you too we're going to talk next to Johnny from Newberg Oregon Johnny welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. I have. A comment and a question. On Sin or sickness and yes it's probably one of the one of. The best lectures I think I've. Ever listen and I'm still I can catch myself. Thank you. Anybody with any kind of addiction. Never go into details about any one thing but it's just amazing how you touch on like everything and I guess my question is kind of I guess or. For us a question before you ask the question let me just tell our listeners who don't know the lecture you're referring to is the 1st in a series of 8 lectures. The whole series is called Biblical Council for a change and it's related to how the Bible differs from popular psychology and the counsel that it gives for overcoming life's problems and so the whole series has a lectures and the lecture that John mentioned is called sin or sickness so it's the 1st in a series called typical council for a change and anyone can hear that series at our Web site for free everything in our website is free and you can just download it or listen there at the narrow path dot com Ok Johnny What's your question. I don't recommend it so my question I get kind of I guess but. What should be the response of the church leadership to the l g b t committee community who who's visiting qubit churches like somebody come in and so that the church doesn't want to hold a position that a claim to be a Christian and want to be part of a church What's to be the response. The leadership the church leadership well that makes me they should they should hold to biblical standards which means that if they're if somebody is living in sin. Then of course they they would be called to repentance and if they don't repent they would not be regarded to be a Christian like I was saying to an earlier caller there's church discipline and fornication is one of those things that a person be disciplined for Paul mentioned a man who is living in fornication with his father's wife in 1st Corinthians 5 and said he should be you know subject to church discipline that's just the kind of thing if a person claims to be a Christian and is living in sin then they have to be confronted and called to repent of the sin now of course the way you state the question not sure if you mean if these people are not Christians if non-Christian people come in who are living in sin the church simply has preached the gospel to them and evangelize them hopefully get them saved and but the mother getting saved means they have to repent of sin there's also a possibility of course that the Christian people who have gender confusion. Are not living in sin because they may not be acting it out there's many many Christians who struggle with you know. Attraction to the same sex or or some other kind of sexual problem. But they don't do it because they don't act it out they they they live a holy life I know people who are homosexuals but who live a holy life they don't they remain celibate you know their situation is not really much different than a person who would be say in love with. Their sister or in love with another man's wife well you can't have or you know you're going to have to just kind of say No you're so if you answer you're going to make sure that you do not violate them you can be a Christian and be tempted in all manner Jesus was tempted in all manners we are but but without sin he didn't succumb to it and that's what he calls us to do when we face temptations he calls us not to succumb to them so if I was attracted to other min instead of other women or if I was attracted to my sister in that way or if I was attracted to another man's wife or to anyone else that could not legitimately be. You know my spouse then what do I have to do I've got to live a holy life I've got to live a solo life you know until I can until I can be attracted to somebody that I could actually married if I can't be attracted to him ever that I just stay single and I just live a holy life lots of people do that we live in a time where it's unthinkable to ask someone to live a celibate life because our society worship sex it's almost like it's like you know having to go without sex is like having to starve to death you know never eat food because it's and people see it as a need but it's only begun to be such a raging need because it's so inflamed by encouragement I mean so many people have encouraged us to define ourselves such I mean think about it. You mention the l g b t community what is the community but people who define themselves by their sexuality you know I mean that's what he refers to refers to labels associate with different sexual orientations Well when people define themselves by their sexuality you know that sex has become something that it didn't used to be and doesn't and shouldn't be sex is is not what defines you your your character defines your values define you your behavior defines your not your sexual orientation Now it's true if you have a sexual orientation that's that's not right then it's going to be you know difficult it's going to be difficult to term in celibate but you know what I know a lot of men who have a sexual orientation that's heterosexual but they're not married because they haven't met anyone they want to marry yet and maybe they never will some of them never do and what's what they get have to they're going to be celibate too this is not picking on anyone in the l.g. Beauty community it's just making the same standards for all people and those standards are if you can't be married according to a biblical concept of marriage then you remain celibate I was single for 510 years as an adult and I had to be celibate I didn't you know I didn't find that easy either but it had to be done and so I mean celibacy is an option Paul said that Jesus was celibate Paul was celibate and millions of Christians have been celibate and if so what's the church supposed to do some comes in says Well Pastor I'm you know I'm attracted to the same sex. If I were the pastor and I don't want to be a pastor but if I were in that Pastor shoes I'd say Well have you no attraction to the opposite sex and if they said No none at all I say well then you know what I would counsel you to do is keep your mind off sex as much as you can and just live a celibate life. If you're attracted the opposite sex you should still really live a celibate in your life until you find someone to marry. Now by the way a lot of people who identify themselves as as again today. Are not incapable of marriage because some of them were married some of it married to women and have children by them and then later on in a marriage they decide I guess I'm gay now I guess I've always been gay Well maybe they always were but that didn't keep them from being able to be husbands and you know it's like if a man is married to a woman and he decides that he's gay all of a sudden well he may in fact be attracted to men but that wouldn't be any different than if I as a straight man suddenly decided I'm attracted to my neighbor's wife well so what I've got I've got my own life and my neighbor's life is not available to me and therefore I've got to get my thoughts off of that if that's the case Same thing with a man who's start to be tempted by other men though he has a wife and children so I mean there's all kinds of people who identify themselves as gay and I think the biggest problem is that is people are identifying themselves by their sexuality which is not the biggest part of a person it but it has been encouraged to be seen as the biggest part of person so when when when a homosexual couple comes to a church Christians have gotten so confused about this they seem think well what are we going to do what do you do you know what can we ask them to do how about us and be Christians people in churches must be Christians and they're supposed to it Christians do. And people who can't be married in a biblical sense are called to be celibate It's just that simple. Yes perfect. Great answer that something that sits in the lecture kind of sort of said the same thing and I was just thinking about the leadership this is you know and we kind of had that. Come to us recently and. Kind of to fight it I mean that we had somebody come in the church and. And they're going to be welcome but I'm just I'm going to confuse myself not about. About the response but how should I I feel me to be the response to the other leaders in the church about what kind of going on so I can know. What should your response be but what if there's somebody in the church what if there's somebody in the church I guy who's sleeping with his girlfriend or living with his girlfriend and they're not married what would your response be to me the same thing they got to hear that I'm holding on to standards and then you know they go stop that fornication Most same thing if a guy's sleeping with his boyfriend I mean. You know a marriage as Jesus said is a god made man and woman and said For this cause a mansion leave his father mother and cleave to his wife and the 2 should take on one flesh that's what Jesus said marriage is so if you can get married in the way that Jesus said you know a man and a woman cleaving together for life making that commitment in Christ then you've got an honorable marriage and the Bible says marriage is honorable and all that undefiled But if you can't do that I don't it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight if you can't get married you've got to be someone it's not really confusing. Yet not interested in my in my mind at all. If I Should we see them in as a church leadership in the church leadership say hey this individual wants to be here and it's not against the part of the transgender it's like a listers already went to the front but they said this is the way they are now and that's the way to live the life of the rest of life you can't go back again and they get think that I get them back to being their regional gender. But I think could you know I think I did yeah you're right and I definitely I just want to get your feedback on that you give me some distance here lecture and let you know I'm just littering steadfast and I just got to give advice to those who asked me you know what my stand Yeah well it's a hard thing it's a hard thing when a person's transgender and they've had operations and things like that now they now they really are biologically a new gender technically if a person like that really got saved I would be surprised if they you know if they got discipled if they actually found out what Jesus taught and wanted to obey him I would think they'd want to go back and make me get the operation reversed I mean go one way you know the other way but if they can't do that let's just say they can't afford it or whatever then. I guess the next next thing is just for them be celibate until such a time as they can I mean just be be non-sexual that it better to be non-sexual than. You know. Identify yourself sexually in a way contra to a god does. And by the way I realize that the sexual confusion thing the whole gender confusion thing is based on the assumption that we are whatever gender we think we are but of course people can be really confused about what they think they are there's people in mental institutions who think they're no Polian but they're not and there's men who think they're women but they're not. And there's men who aren't in mental institutions who think they're women but they're not the way to know if you're a man or not is to find out if you have a y. Chromosome or if you don't want to do a blood test you can just look look in your pants and say when you're a man or woman or not that's really how people have always been able to. It's not how you think about it it's what you are you know people can I mean it's the it's the devil that tries to dislodge people from reality in many ways and that's one of the many ways that he just lodges people from reality and the truth will make you free not deception and that's. All right so much. Good talking to you Raymond from Kent Washington welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling. I thought about what you said the other day we were talking about Calvinism and the difference and I don't know if I want to push you back a little bit more clear. Understanding. Which is the good news. For. Because of the death burial and resurrection for the world and. Really distorting is they're saying basically that the resurrection. Wouldn't. Different. Well as I said the Gospel is that Jesus is Lord that chase this is the king that God has established his kingdom and stampers Jesus as the king and that you know all men are submit to him that's not news is the gospel as it's preached in the New Testament. The gospel you know as Jesus preached it or as Paul preached it did not explicitly say you know. You know everybody can be saved but it's a given that whoever will believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life so I mean the Calvinist believes that too by the way they believe that everyone who believes in him will have everlasting life also they just believe not everyone can do that they believe that only the elect can this is that the county where Calvin is differs from other Christians and his theology is really about what's going on behind the scenes a Calvinist when he looks at any unbeliever thinks the same thing you do namely that person needs to be saved and they they think they should evangelize them and the difference is if that person doesn't get saved ever then the Calvinist assumes Well the reason that person didn't get saved was because they were to elect if if if you see the same person and they don't get saved ever you might assume what a tragedy they could have got one of them say but they didn't turn to Him Now both of you will agree though a Calvinist will agree with you that if that person doesn't get saved his last and the other if the person does get saved they will believe it's because God for ordained it from the foundation the world from to get saved and you'll think well maybe not but they made the right decision. And both of you you know will have a different opinion about that the both basically you and the Calvinists are just having a different opinion about what's going on behind the scenes when someone gets saved or something doesn't say just what's going on behind the curtain and I believe that their vision is incorrect I don't think they have enough scripture to support it and I think the Scripture supports a different view but it isn't really it doesn't have to have really any practical ramifications in terms of an individual responding to the Gospel because they've they hope that anyone might respond to gospel and then they find out that person was elect as far as they're concerned. They don't believe everyone can but they have to approach everyone as if they might be one of the elect and therefore they do try to evangelize everybody the proclamation that Jesus is King is to be preached to everybody Calvinist leave that to and sort of way so that's the gospel That's why I don't say they have a different gospel I say they have a different the ology. On many issues and I think it's quite wrong but it's not it's not different gospel as near as I can tell. Anyway I guess you know I may not be able to persuade you because I think I said the same thing last night you call that if you're not persuaded then don't be persuaded you don't have to you know that's one great thing about this radio show nobody has to agree with me because I'm not the final authority on anything the Bible is giving you my opinions about the Bible and if you think the Bible says something different than what I say feel free to think that till you find out otherwise. That's that's how we roll here you're listening to the narrow path My name is Steve Greg and we are listener supported if you'd like to write to us you can write to the narrow path p. O. Box 730 Temecula California 9 to 593. Or go to our website the narrow path dot com Remember everything at our website is free though we do pay for the radio time and that's from donations so if you want to help us stay on the air check out the narrow passage com Thanks for joining us let's talk in Monday. The narrow path with Steve Greg is sponsored by the narrow path ministries support the ministry with a donation at the narrow path dot com. There's nothing simple anymore is there today's problems are complex from relationships to work to finances everything's gotten complicated it's easy to feel lost in the confusion we need a way to make sense of what's going on in this crazy world how to prioritize and know what matters turn to the word to filter the craziness to sift through the confusion find out what to hang on to and what to much go on until we do here Sacramento 7 10 am the word. From the big mountain heating air and solar and frozen or traffic from the word. It's been a good drive this why don't you think for the most part 99 heading northbound still clinging to that slowness though starter Now Sheldon road it's a bit of stop and go and take it past 12th Ave get in on to 50 the on ramp as close to Stockton Boulevard so you can't do it they're heading eastbound and road construction still emplacement causing problems this morning at Stockton Boulevard is where that starts the 65th center lane blocked 80 heading eastbound at Green back lane if you try to get up to set the sights you've got that waiting for you so you might want to give it a minute something you want to share with us Lexus of Sacramento traffic tip line at 830-3077 like my friend John Mack Flanagan who just let me know 80 heading down hauled finance daily.