Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20161027

With Border Patrol agents on their missions to catch undocumented immigrants. I was surprised to see how much the Border Patrol was cooperating. To be inside of that world and see the ways these guys are talking about hunting mexicans. And then to see federal law enforcement, not only tolerate them, but kind of use them in a certain way. Amy mother jones Senior Reporter shane bauer joins us to tell the story of how he went undercover in california, arizona, colorado, to report on the rightwing militia movement, which surged under president obama. All of that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. At least 22 people, mostly children, have reportedly died in an airstrike on a school in the rebelheld syrian province of idlib. The syrian observatory for human rights said the bombing was believed to be carried out by russian planes. Anthony lake of unicef said this is a tragedy. , it is an outrage. And if deliberate, it is a war crime. Unicef says the attack the may be the deadliest bombing of a school since the war began more than five years ago. Meanwhile at the United Nations, u. N. Emergency relief coordinator Stephen Obrien pushed the Security Council wednesday to take action in syria. He said soon there may be no Syrian People or syria to save. Before month i have come you and presented a never worsening record of destruction and atrocity. Grimly cap regarding the destruction cataloging the destruction of a country and its people. Y toe my job is to rela the facts, i cant help but be incandescent with rage. Month and month, nothing is happening to stop the wars, stop the suffering. Amy we will have more on syria after headlines. In whats been described as biggest military buildup on russias borders since the cold war, the United States is promising to send troops, tanks and artillery to poland while , britain is planning to send fighter jets to romania and troops to estonia next year. The pledges were made wednesday during a nato meeting in brussels. In addition germany, canada, and , other nato allies have also pledged to send forces to the region. Jens stoltenberg is nato secretarygeneral. Today, we also discussed progress in strengthening natos presence in the black sea region with the romanian led brigade on land. And we are working on measures in the air and at sea. I am pleased to confirm that several nations indicated their willingness to contribute to our presence in the black sea region on land, at sea, and in the air. Amy in other military news, the Washington Post is reporting the pentagon has secretly expanded its Global Network of drone bases to include a base in tunisia to conduct missions in libya. The u. S. Now maintains a string of drone bases across africa from niger to djibouti. In north dakota, the Morton County Sheriffs Department has concluded its investigation into the use of dogs to attack native americans trying to protect a sacred site from being destroyed by the construction of the 3. 8 billion Dakota Access pipeline on september 3. The investigation finds the guards lacked the proper licensing to do Security Work in north dakota. Its a class b misdemeanor to provide private Security Services without a license in north dakota, meaning some of the guards could face charges and possible jail time. The Sheriffs Department probe began after this video recorded by democracy now on september 3 went viral. These dogs. That woman over there, she was charging them. Right in my face. Amy the dog has blood in its nose and mouth. And she is Still Standing here threatening. Amy why are you letting those stocks go after them . Amy meanwhile, in more updates from north dakota, the Morton County Sheriffs Department and north dakota Highway Patrol have shut down a section of highway 1806 the main highway leading to the resistance camps. The federal Aviation Administration has also issued a temporary nofly zone for the airspace above the resistance camps for all aircrafts except for those used by law enforcement. This order means native americans can no longer fly drones to Document Police activity, but the police can continue to fly their Surveillance Drones and helicopters. This comes as water protectors report the pipelines construction is now only about a halfmile west of highway 1806 and that the company is continuing to build eastward toward the highway and then to the missouri river. On wednesday, civil rights leader Jesse Jackson traveled to north dakota to support the pipeline protesters. They have been victims of protracted genocide and dishonored commitments. Howust measure our cap her we treat native americans character, how we treat native americans. Amy in new york city, resistance is growing in opposition to spectra energys aim pipeline, which is slated to carry fracked gas only hundreds of feet from the aging Indian Point Nuclear power plant and then under the hudson river. On Tuesday Morning, 15 people were arrested blocking the doors to new york senator Chuck Schumers office in manhattan to demand schumer stop the pipelines constructi. This comes two weeks after four activists blockaded pipeline construction for more than 15 hours by crawling inside the pipeline and locking themselves to each other. In election news hacked emails , from the account of Hillary Clintons Campaign Chair john podesta show several of her top aides were privately concerned about how the actions of the Clinton Foundation could impact her campaign. Campaign manager robby mook sent one email with the subject line of foundation vulnerability points. In the email, he listed three points money from foreign governments, overseas events with foreign leaders or government officials and potential conflicts from overseasowned organizations. The Clinton Foundation raised 26 million from the swedish government at the same the government was lobbying Hillary Clintons state department to not sanction swedish businesses from working with iran. The Swedish Telecommunications giant ericsson had reportedly sold iran equipment that could be used to track its citizens. Meanwhile, another hacked email written by one of bill clintons closest aides shows how the former president clinton has personally profited from work tied to the foundation. The aide, doug band, writes that he helped secure 50 million in speaking fees and other ventures that went directly to bill clinton. In the email, band described the forprofit activity of president clinton as bill clinton, inc. Meanwhile, in another hacked email, Chelsea Clinton accused her fathers aides of taking significant sums of money from my parents personally. In other campaign news, donald trump took a break from campaign trail to open a new luxury hotel in washington, d. C. , just blocks from the white house. This comes as more signs are emerging that the republicans president ial run may have done permanent damage to the trump brand. In new york, more than 300 residents of the large apartment complex known as trump place have signed an online petition titled dump the trump name. Meanwhile, in hollywood, someone has vandalized Donald Trumps star on the hollywood walk of fame by smashing it to pieces using a sledgehammer and a pickaxe. In other campaign news, a former republican congressman has threatened to grab his musket if trump loses the election. Former illinois congressman joe walsh tweeted on november 8th, im voting for trump. On november 9th, if trump loses, im grabbing my musket. You in . The Brady Campaign to prevent gun violence condemned walshs tweet. The groups president said joe walshs continued vile and violent rhetoric has no place in our political discussion. For the first time the United States has abstained from a United Nations General Assembly vote on a resolution calling for an end to a u. S. Economic embargo on cuba. The resolution was passed 191 to zero with the United States and israel abstaining. The u. S. Had opposed the measure for the past 24 years. In havana, residents welcomed the u. N. Vote. We really think the United States abstention is a step in the right direction that proves in the future, sometime soon, there could be an end to the blockade, given the conditions in flagrant violations of human rights that it represents. Amy a shocking new study by the World Wildlife fund finds more than two thirds of the worlds wildlife could be gone by 2020. According to the wwf, there has already been a 58 overall decline in the numbers of fish, mammals, birds, and reptiles worldwide. Wwf conservation scientist Martin Taylor told cnn this is definitely human impact, were in the sixth mass extinction. Theres only been five before this and were definitely in the sixth. Here in new york, ten immigrant rights activists were arrested Tuesday Morning after they chained themselves together and shut down traffic on the upper level of the George Washington bridge during morning rush hour tuesday. The protest was organized by the Laundry Workers Center using the hashtag somosvisibles, or we are visible. Codirector of the Laundry Workers Center mahoma lopez said we demand the right to vote and take part in the decisions in our communities. The group is calling for a day of action on november 7 the day before the president ial elections. Meanwhile another group of , immigrant rights activists in held a march outside an Immigration Office in Downtown Manhattan to demand deferred action from deportation, including a fiveyear work visa, for all undocumented immigrants, regardless of age or parental status. The campaign is called saving our souls a reference to Martin Luther kings motto for the civil rights movement. It included 37 people from mexico, honduras, ghana, st. Vincent, spain, and other countries that submitted their applications for deferred action. And in maryland, a debate between the democratic and Republican Senate candidates was disrupted wednesday when the green partys candidate, dr. Margaret flowers, jumped on stage to insist she be allowed to take part. After briefly speaking on the stage, dr. Flowers was removed by security. Think it is for voters to understand the difference between myself and these delegates, otherwise, they dont know. You say you are a Public University and you want to educate the public, but without having a full public discussion, that doesnt actually happen. How does this serve democracy and the public . You have to leave now. Im dr. Flowers and im a candidate. This is how youre treating a candidate . Dr. Flowers was removed from the stage. The debate went on between democratic nominee Chris Van Allen and republican cap easily go. Cap easily go. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now, democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Nermeen and im nermeen shaikh. Welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. We begin today in syria, where air strikes wednesday killed at least people, most of them 22 school children. The attacks occurred in a village in syrias rebelheld idlib province. According to reports by the Syrian Civil Defense rescue workers the raids were carried , out by either syrian or russian warplanes and hit residential area and a school. Oh, god. Oh, god. Please come help us. Oh, god. Youre seeing our situation. I want my mother. Take me to my anothe mother. The plane hit us. I do not want to go to the school. Nermeen also on wednesday, u. N. Aid chief Stephen Obrien addressed the United Nations Security Council, saying the council has taken no action to end nearly six years of civil war in syria. His comments sparked an angry exchange. Each month i have come before you and presented an ever worsening record of destruction and atrocity. Grimly cataloging this destruction of a country and its people. While my job is to relay to you the facts, i cannot help but be incandescent with rage. Month after month, worse and worse, and nothing exactly happening to stop the war, stop the suffering. Nermeen russias ambassador to the u. N. , vitaly churkin, responded to obrien, describing his remarks as arrogant and criticizing him for not talking about russia halting air strikes in aleppo. Several council members, including the United States, france and britain, defended , obriens statements. This is u. S. Ambassador to the u. N. Samantha power. Remarkable and troubling about the presentation we have heard today is that what russia really wants from the u. N. Is credit. Congratulations, russia, you have stopped for a couple of days from using incendiary weapons will stop thank you for not using cluster bombs in civilian areas. Thank you for staying the hand of brutality with regard to bunker buster weapons. You dont get congratulations and get credit for not committing war crimes for a day. Or a week. Amy this comes as u. S. Defense secretary ash carter announced a military campaign to retake the syrian city of raqqa from the islamic state. Carter said the campaign will commence sometime in the next few weeks before the likely completion of the current offensive to defeat militants in the iraqi stronghold of mosul. Meanwhile, syria continues to dominate Foreign Policy discussions in the president ial race. Donald trump warned in an interview tuesday that Hillary Clintons policy on syria could lead to world war iii. Mr. Trump she has no plan for syria. Look, with her you will end up in world war iii. She doesnt know what shes doing. Just like with libya, just like with Everything Else she has done. Syria is no longer syria. Syria is russia and the new that that we built iran we built which was one of the worst negotiated deals ive ever seen. Nermeen nato is seeking to station more troops in Eastern Europe in what reuters reports could be the biggest military buildup on russias borders since the cold war. As part of a u. S. Backed plan, nato is planning to send battle groups to poland, lithuania, estonia, and latvia with forces ranging from armored infantry to drones. As tension mounts between russia and the u. S. Over the crisis in Syria National intelligence , director James Clapper said tuesday he fears russia could shoot down a u. S. Aircraft if a nofly zone were imposed over syria. Amy well, our next guest says that two mutually exclusive, competing narratives are dominating discussions around syria and neither is enough to understand whats happening in the country. In a new article in the nation headlined, the debate over syria has reached a dead end, Bassam Haddad writes there has been increasing gravitation toward two mutually exclusive narratives that of pure and consistent revolution, and that of external conspiracy. both narratives carry grains of truth, but both are encumbered by maximalist claims and fundamental blind spots that forfeit any Common Ground necessary for enduring ceasefires or potential transitions, as well as postwar reconciliation. Bassam haddad is director of the middle east and Islamic Studies Program at george mason university. He is director of the arab studies institute. We welcome you to democracy now layout with these competing narratives are and why you call this a dead end at this point. Thank you, amy, for having me again on the show. Was trying to establish some sort of accountability on on of the people that both of these sort of dominant sides. Revolution the pure narrative is, of course, some sort of shortcut to a much more complex position. Both of these depictions are. But in all cases, you present a view that assumes from the very beginning of the uprising or revolution, the same values that actually existed at the time have been sustained throughout the last 5. 5 years by the rebels and so on. Whereas in reality, the actual uprising has been transformed into what youre seeing today to avoid the culture of what is exactly happening today in terms of giving it a name. Another, also, reveals shortcoming regarding the actual external intervention on behalf of the opposition that has shortcircuited the opposition, that has rendered it less unified, less transparent, less inclusive and most governmentally, detrimentally, less independent. They also have a problem, proponents of a pure revolution, that in trying to disentangle the good rebels from the bad rebels him if you will, or the jihadists from the nationalists within the rebel groups, but it is difficult to disentangle these two as it is difficult to disentangle syria today from the problems that we are witnessing in the region. On the other side, we also see a dominant narrative there are many narratives, but these are the ones that youre always confronted with when you talk to anyone about syria, whether it is a Family Member am a policy analyst, or a friend. The other narrative focuses on the conspiracy excessively, external designs on syria excessively as if there is no reason for syrians to actually rise up on their own and basically, struggle for ending a repressive regime. Sion o it does this at the expense of syrians. The forces do exist and have actually wreaked havoc in the region to the nth degree, but it only sees those forces in internally it sees, for the most part, jihadists. What disappears in this narrative are ordinary syrians who are actually opposed to both. Syrians in this narrative become invisible. If you try to hold the position that rejects this sort of pure narrative that is difficult to accept when youre looking at what is happening on the ground or when you try to reject the conspiracy were external design narratives, youre basically accused of either being a traitor to the nation or in imperialist or even a jihadist. Youre not allowed to oppose the regime, for instance, from a perspective that is different from that of the opposition. And youre not allowed to be in the opposition to the regime without being labeled a prowest, prou. S. , proimperialist speaker or advocate. And that puts us in the position that has the development of the middle ground, that puts syria first over and above all these designs. What is at stake here is not what is happening now because the regime, as we we see today in the past several decades, is not going to be part of syrias future, no matter how much everyone insists on that side that it will be. It is aptly for the most part, a bargaining chip to use during negotiations to increase the leverage of that side of the argument. What might stay with us, however, is the new configuration your witnessing developing and syria, including various groups that are supported and funded, these kinds of movements, in my view, will stay with us for the long haul and that is why there is a lot of controversy about what should not be controversial, which is the democratic uprising against dictatorship. But things have become so complex that to actually read the real world of this complexity and just focus on the ideals is actually counterproductive for the purposes of an uprising itself. Amy Bassam Haddad, theres so much to discuss. Were going to go to break and come back to this. Director of the middle east and Islamic Studies Program at george mason university. This is democracy now we will be back in a moment. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. Nermeen we continue our look at the area. In a piece published earlier this month in the guardian, saying his country is fighting isis who brought the conflict to a new degree of barbarity and cruelty unseen since the days of nazi germany. Massacres, public tortures and executions, and a slave trade on an industrial scale were a daily reality in the areas held by isis. He goes on to say those who fight in eastern aleppo shamelessly use civilians as a human shield, block their passage to safety through established humanitarian corridors, and hamper the delivery of humanitarian aid. ,my our guest is Bassam Haddad director of the middle east and Islamic Studies Program at george mason university. Cofounder of jadaliyya and director of the arab studies institute. His recent piece for the nation is headlined, the debate over syria has reached a dead end. Hes also the author of Business Networks in syria the political economy of authoritarian resilience. Nermeen Bassam Haddad, you were speaking earlier about all of the parties who were intervening in the conflict, both on behalf on the side of the assad regime as well as the opposition. Could you explain who those parties are and how they are impacted what started off, as you pointed out, an uprising against the assad regime in 2011 . The Actual Development of the uprising early on, and theres also debate about that because various groups already had existed in syria thanks to push our alassad and his efforts Bashar Alassad in his efforts for international and regional sincests into the region 2003. However, the uprising itself started as a legitimate call for democracy or for social justice or for the end of economic what tatian or corruption against a regime that has an in power for several the gates, putting of opportunities to turn syria into something that actually presents prevents an intervention from the outside at this scale we have seen. But it has done the opposite. Making subject citizens very vulnerable and setting them up to perhaps call for any prevention to fight the regime. That has been exploited by various groups in the region or various states in the region and beyond to use the uprising, perhaps hijack it, for its own purposes, for their own purposes, and sort of attorney syrian question or uprising into an arena that is used to redraw the map of the region. That process, as well as the brutality of the regime in crossing the opposition or crossing the protests early on, excavated escalated and exacerbated the transformation of the uprising into something that is more militant, more extremist, ultimately more jihadist in due time. That constituted one of the tracks that needs to be taken very seriously, as we speak, about a future for syria. And as we speak about ways of coming out at this conflict. The brutality we have seen by the regime is not something new. It is not something that can explained by addressing International Intervention only. It is a manifestation of how the regime operates when it is under threat. It is not just the identity of the opposition that makes the regime act this way, but the resume would act this way when faced with any threat. It could be mother theresa or a marxist movement, they would react in the same manner. What complicates the situation and what makes this a difficult context is the identity of the supporters of the uprising in the revolution, which includes servative countries oilrich countries like saudi arabia, and there allies like the United States, as well as turkey early on which helped bring in thousands of external fighters. Players,ity of these of these supporters, has turned this into a conflict that is much larger than syria. It became a conflict that is much more than just about syria. If we dont realize this development and the implications of this development, we will be if we dont have this diagnosis, in my view, we will willggesting things that not work. They even may be counterproductive. I think we all have a duty from a moral, political, and intellectual, to call for the end of the killing. The manner in which we call for this, however, actually matters because some of these calls are not going to be heeded. A lot of calls, for instance, address the United States. As i the advocates of democracy and independence for syria have the same interests as the United States. And they do not. The history of the United States involvement in the region shows otherwise. It is not about calling or not calling for the end of the killings. That is not an issue. The end of the killing and the end of the massacres and the end of the atrocities committed mostly by the regime, at this point, and the russians, especially at this point i should say, is a nobrainer. There is no individual that would actually say, no, let us go on, unless they are firmly on the regime side in a way that actually does not take the interest of most syrians into consideration. The question is, how do we go about doing that . It is important to dissent from our lofty ideals and our grandstanding statements to discuss the complexity of the situation, which, unfortunately, will not be to the liking of any party. That is the problem. We are looking for a solution that satisfies one party exclusively, and it is not going to happen, especially after fall 2015 when the russians intervened on the side of the regime and prevented any potential collapse. We are stuck in the situation where the best option is a least possible outcome. It is depressing. The killing that is taking place. But it is not something we can negotiate unless there is a tectonic shift. Especially before the elections or before the transfer of power in the United States. Amy professor, you talk about the other countries and also that you cant solve syria without dealing with yemen and iraq. I want you to respond to after coburn who made this, or dust, they should compare the coverage of muzzle and east aleppo. It tells you a lot about the propaganda we consume. Your thoughts on this . That particular piece. I heard about the headline. It is not also either a puzzle or not surprising. The coverage, whether it is by air satellite stations arab satellite stations or our mainstream stations here in the United States and perhaps europe have actually approached the syrian situation in such a highlights excessively and exclusively certain atrocities, which are, in fact, and that is no, you know, surprise some of which are in fact committed by the regime and its allies, especially russia at this point. But when it comes to other kinds of conflicts which involved the bombardment of civilians as well as by those your supporting the rebels in syria, such a saudi arabia and the United States, that is fueling and refueling Saudi Air Force or jetfighters as it bombards the rebels and it is, this sort of not just lacking, dishonest absent with the exclusion of major atrocities such as we have witnessed or heard a couple of weeks ago with the killing of several hundred civilians or yemenis on the side of the rebels. That was by saudi jetfighters. Mosul is concerned, there is a consensus against isis. At the manner in which the media proceeds in producing propaganda that completely eliminates what is being addressed or what is being argued on the other side is actually horrendous. This is something that has fed narratives onry syria, the dominant ones. There are many other ways of understanding syria and ways that are more productive, it is just that they are drowned out by propaganda, by the the sound of guns and jetfighters and bombs, and it is no wonder why today, even a brother and sister within one family, in syria or outside syria, are actually on complete opposite ins of the spectrum in addressing the problem and the solution. Nermeen i would like to turn to excerpt from the book i rob and by robin yassinkassab and leila alshami titled burning country syrians in revolution and war. The authors explain how extremist groups grew to such prominence in the Syrian Opposition. Writing if the fsa had been seriously supported from outside, if assad had not been so generously armed and funded by russia and iran then the Armed Struggle might have lasted months rather than years, and civil activism might have quickly regained its role. But the war stretched on, and the liberated areas became death zones. This was the vacuum in which Bassam Haddad, i would like you to respond to that, as well is the claim that some make that if the u. S. Had not intervened and pushed for arming various groups, the Syrian Opposition would not be in the state it is in. While others say the u. S. Did not support the opposition enough. Yes, i mean, it kind of goes both ways. It is very important, in my view, to take that position seriously, the position that had the u. S. Supported, which actually involves a readiness to support the intervention of the u. S. Which had been intervening in many ways that are not discussed as if the u. S. Is just sitting on the sidelines. It is not. It has been arming groups and it has been signaling other countries to armed groups, and actually engaged itself in direct combat. But it is a very important, even if one disagrees, to take this proposition seriously. The problem with such propositions, because they are emotionally emotionally are correct, the problem was they do not actually with the political realities on the ground. They do not come forward with historical experience. Her instance, the idea of had the u. S. Supported the Free Syrian Army early on, rings would have been different in a vacuum would not have been grown in which the jihadists were able to fill. There are two problems that i can immediate week think of. First, it assumes the opposition is not fragmented the rebels by late 2011 or 2012 were not already fragmented whole. It assumes there is a Central Command that can actually take care of this sort of support and do something with it. But that is not the most important problematic assumption. The other assumption, and if you look at the history of support for rebel groups, the other assumption is that there is consensus among all possible interventionists. But they are split. Supporting rebels early on and however scenario we can imagine, would have led not to success of the Rebel Movement against the entrenched brutal regime, it would have led instead to an escalation and an armed raise because the supporters of the regime would have naturally came in earlier with much more viciousness, much more force to actually respond by supporting the regime and similar, if not a more extensive ways, for region that you are witnessing right now. The support of the regime so far has been much more vigorous and bold about going farther than the supporters of the opposition. So those two assumptions do not hold. Maybe in the reality in which the rebels are supported by the most powerful possible interventionists across the region and the world, that would have actually made sense. And it actually does not hold water in the real world. Professor, we have to wrap up, but you mentioned the u. S. Elections. What do you think will change based on who is elected president here . And do you think that assad out, regime change, is a prerequisite for change their . Exley winsif trump the presidency, everything is going to be ok. Im joking. No, i think we have a serious problem in the sense that we expect so much out of the elections and out of new administrations in the u. S. , and im not saying things will not change, but i think there is a consistency in u. S. Policy that will not be subverted simply by the coming to power even of a personalities such as donald trump. What will change, i think, is not necessarily the best way to look at this. The best way to look at this is, what is the state of the battlefield between syria and the state of the international moods, visavis, what is happening in syria, by the time clinton or somebody takes over . And that is why the russians in the Syrian Regime are pushing for a most brutal assault, which i think we have not seen yet mature, but we probably will, unfortunately theyre pushing for this assault in order to take aleppo, control what is useed a useful syria, and that as leverage for any kind of negotiated settlement that might take lace later on, if at all. And by that time, it will actually have raised the bar so much for u. S. Intervention that it would be very difficult to do very much, perhaps besides some sort of settlement, unless an allout confrontational war is on the table. But it is not on the table now as a function of the problematics of enforcing, for instance, a nofly zone, which is very close to going to war with russia which many policy makers have been saying, it is that such a big deal. The u. S. Can take out russia and we are underestimating how the threat of credible force by the u. S. Will actually affect russian responses. Perhaps. But perhaps not. The appetite, however, is definitely not there right now and not in the next few weeks for very obvious reasons, having to do with the legacy of the obama administration, which has been described as very problematic for various reasons. But many others differ on whether that was actually the wrong thing to do. The point is that amy we have 30 seconds. The point is, what we have happens on the ground in the next few weeks, in my view, is going to be horrendous. It is when to be brutal and it is going to at least the russian answered regimes are going to set the stage for some sort of an irreversible situation territorially. In my view, set of calling for the u. S. To enter the war, the u. S. Can actually place hard pressure on russia to force the proxies to come to a negotiated settlement in which all forces, all social forces in syria can ask lee have a role. Actually have a role. The problem is, the u. S. Is probably not willing to do this. Not ready to do this yet because it will have to make compromises that has not been ready to make with its own allies and other areas in the region, including yemen and elsewhere. Amy Bassam Haddad, they could for being with us director of , the middle east and Islamic Studies Program at george mason university. We will certainly continue to follow syria. We will be back in a minute. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman wi nermeen shaikh. Nermeen we turn now to a stunning new expose for mother jones magazine looking at americas resurgent paramilitary movement. We have, throughout the country, groups of armed men, mostly white men, that see themselves as a defense against the federal government. Courts protesters planning to occupy a Federal Building in oregon for however long it takes. They were arrested. Whats pointing guns at officers. A lot of these emotions were born after obama got elected. Initial movement in the 1990s died down after george bush was elected and as soon as we elected the first black president , membership skyrocketed. Nermeen mother jones Senior Reporter shane bauer went undercover to report on the rightwing militia movement. Using facebook, he joined the three percent united patriots militia, which operates in more than a dozen states. Bauer traveled to the u. S. Mexico border to join the militia on Operation Spring break a citizen Vigilante Mission aimed at catching undocumented immigrants. In a video accompanying the piece, bauer explains how he landed the job using his own name and personal information, despite his years as an awardwinning journalist. Collect when i set up my Facebook Page and whenever a reached out to these guys, i used my real name is to had they googled me, they would have seen a was a Senior Reporter at mother jones and they probably would not have allowed me into the organization. There are armed guards at the base, guys with ar15s patrolling it. I just kind of rolled up, had my camo these guys were really amped up. A lot of them are military veterans that had served in iraq, afghanistan. I was always worried when i was at least things, we were going to actually run into somebody. My understanding was if we did run into somebody, we were to call the base and the basement called the Border Patrol. Were not supposed to shoot anybody unless somebody shoots at us. But when we are going out on these operations, guys are talking about hunting mexicans. The stuff they are saying, it is not hard to imagine a situation in which they are shooting 70. Amy for more we are going to berkeley, california. Shane bauer joins us to discuss this expose headlined, undercover with a border militia. It was funded in part by the puffin foundation. Shane, welcome back to democracy now explain exactly where you went and who these people were. Thank you for having me, amy. Initially, i joined a couple of militias in california and was training with them for several months, but my main interest was ofa kind of new phenomenon nationally organized militias. Is probably the largest of these groups. Amy explain the name, the three percent. Their part of a Larger Movement that calls itself the three percentrt movement. They believe the American Revolution was won by 3 of the population and the idea is that if they can get 3 of the population behind them, they can restore the bill of rights. That is kind of how they look at their work. Nermeen duties paramilitary organizations tend to have a disproportionate number of military veterans . And if so, shane bauer, why do you think that is . It varies from group to group. Three percenter groups, i had one military marine veteran who told me that he considered this therapy. He said it reminded him a lot of afghanistan. I had heard from a number of these guys that when they left the military, they miss the kind of sense of camaraderie that they found in the military. I kind of had the sense that they came back home and did not find what they had hoped and they felt somewhat alienated. In the militia, they kind of, you know, get a sense of what they had in the military. A lot of these guys also seemed to be pretty disillusioned with the military leadership and had a sense of loyalty to their former soldiers, but were generally very skeptical and frustrated with the federal government itself. Talk about where you went. First, i want to play this video clip that accompanies your report at mother jones. Together with fusion. The Militia Group unexpectedly meeting up with u. S. Border patrol in the dark after a few tense moments, recognizing one another. This is a Border Patrol agent who identifies himself as an Intelligence Officer speaking to the militia after the encounter, followed by your commentary. I was surprised to see how much the Border Patrol is cooperating with these guys. The kind of inside world and see the ways these guys are talking about hunting mexicans and that kind of stuff. And then do see federal law enforcement, not only tolerate them, but kind of use them in a certain way. Amy so there you have it, shane, Border Patrol agent saying it impresses me youre coming in to do my job for no pay at all. Talk about what they were doing together, what the Border Patrol told them to do for example, if they see water in the desert, bottles of water, perhaps left for migrants, to dump it . Yeah. Ogales, out in n arizona, way out in the middle of the desert. As remote as you can get. I saw many interactions between the militia and the Border Patrol. The Border Patrol would come to the militia base, sometimes bring as doughnut. In this particular case, when we saw this man who said he was an Intelligence Officer, he was directing us where to set up to find people crossing the border. He actually took us to show us the exact locations where they said we should set up. Story, iblishing this reached out to the leadership of the three percent united patriots who i was with on the border. I spoke to the leader, mike morris, and i asked him about his relationship with the Border Patrol. He said he was still, now that hes back in colorado, was in contact with the Border Patrol on a weekly basis. And whenever they set up an operation, they talked to the Border Patrol and the Border Patrol would tell them when to come down and where to set up. In that particular interaction, the Border Patrol was telling us to destroy food and water that we found in the desert. I saw that happen in the desert. Shane bauer, could you talk about how militia members received training and by whom and what kind of training . One person you spoke to told you that waterboarding and casing are part of their training. Could you say a little bit about that . So right now we have more than 270 militias across the country, according to the southern poverty law center. Most of them are not doing these kind of Border Operations but are more kind of regionally focused. Part of know, a core being in a militia is doing this type of paramilitary training. So guys get together at least once a month, sometimes every week depending on the group, and do kind of in small group infantry type training. The three percent united patriots in particular also have their own kind of special forces within the militia. They describe to me when i was in arizona, some of that training which involved 36 where newstretch members, new recruits are put in a scenario where there are told they have been captured by border cartel. Their sleep deprived for 36 hours, waterboarded. They described putting people and what they call stress boxes and naked except for a tshirt out in the colorado winter and are tased and sometimes cattle in the through holes box. The even describe one instance in which a man, who there were doing this mock interrogation with, would not speak. They brought in a female member of the militia and said if you would not speak, they would tase her. The man who told me this story said he proceeded to taste this woman and cattle prod her. I also witnessed them, i mean, they told a Border Patrol also about these trainings. They were boasting about it. This Intelligence Officer of the Border Patrol was just kind of laughing. Amy talk about the legality of these militias and all of the states that are operating in, how heavily armed be law or. These militias, they call themselves militias because theyre associating themselves with the militia of the revolutionary war and the time after the revolutionary war. There have been laws that have carried over and stay on the books from that time come a time when state and the federal government were requiring every white male to be a part of the militia. They are essentially pointing to these old laws and saying, we are this militia. The issue is that a lot of states have laws that ban militia training or paramilitary training. These laws have never there have been no cases of these laws being enforced. Amy earlier this month, i want to ask about another militia. Three members of a kansas militia known as the crusaders were arrested for plotting to blow up an apartment complex in kansas that is home to many Somali Refugees and houses a mosque. All three militia members were white men in their late 40s. According to the fbi, the militia supported antimuslim, antiimmigrant and antigovernment beliefs. Shane bauer, could you say whether you think that is representative of most Militia Groups . Who are they fighting against in addition to the federal government . Look, these militias and their members all have kind of different motives. The kind of Common Thread is they see themselves as a defense against what they call a tyranny of the federal government. Many of them would also say their primary focus is to prepare for disasters, whether it be a Natural Disaster or, you know, kind of civil unrest. A lot of them will talk about black lives matter. They talk a lot about islamic terrorism. They will say they are not racist. They are not white supremacist in the sense that we think of. However, it is very common to hear and to see on social media antimuslim rhetoric and antiimmigrant rhetoric. You know him a i think most militias would distance themselves from the acts it just described. Many of them actually distanced themselves from what happened in burns, oregon, recently. There are pretty large number of cases in the past five or 10 years of militia factions, kind of going off and planning terrorist attacks. Many have been supported by the fbi. There are also there was a case not long ago in georgia of a militia killing three people. Militia leader killed his wife for Life Insurance money and put that money into buying arms for his militia. Two members of the militia ended up killing two people that they believed knew too much. The movement is very fractured groups up being small that are very isolated and there is a risk of these smaller groups amy shane, we have to leave it there, but it is a fascinating investigation, undercover operation. Shane bauer is an awardwinning Senior Reporter at mother jones. We will link to your piece undercover with a border militia. That does it for the show. I will be speaking tonight in tempe, arizona at arizona university. Check our website. 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