Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20161021

Whistleblowers and with a reporter who documented their ordeal in a Major Investigation for the intercept called the code of silence. New york police have fatally shot a 66 euros africanamerican woman who suffered from schizophrenia. In her own home in the bronx after a neighbor called 911. Mayor de blasio has condemned the shooting. 66 years old, known to the nypd as someone who srerereuffed from Mental Illness. In the of Deborah Danner is tragic and it is unacceptable. Amy we will get reaction on this and a number of other issues from shaun king, a black lives matter activist and senior justice writer for the daily news. We always get a lot of talk about holies brutality. In this most recent shooting, the mayor and the Police Commissioner acknowledge it is wrong, even apologize. That is just talk. We need to get to the point where we have justice and accountability. Amy all that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now, democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Republican president ial nominee donald trump campaigned in ohio thursday and announced that he will accept the results of the novembers election under one condition. Mr. Trump i want to make a major announcement today. I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters and to all of the people of the United States that i will totally accept the results of this great and historic president ial election if i win. Amy Donald Trumps remarks come one day after the final president ial debate when he refused to say if you will accept the relate election results. President obama and other leaders have sharply criticized trumps remarks. Pres. Obama that is dangerous. When you try to sow the seeds of doubt in peoples minds about the legitimacy of election, that undermines our democracy. Amy on thursday night, trump and Hillary Clinton both spoke here in new york at the alfred e. Smith Memorial Foundation dinner in new york to raise money for catholic charities. Trump was repeatedly heckled and booed during the event. Pres. Obama we have learned so much from wikileaks. For example, hillary believes it is vital to deceive the people by having one Public Policies [boos] pres. Obama and a total policy in private. Thats ok. I dont of who they are angry at. For example, here she is tonight in public pretending not to hate catholics [boos] amy Hillary Clinton poked fun at trumps claim that he might not accept the result of the november election. Mrs. Clinton you know, come to think of it, it is amazing i am up here after donald. I did not think he would be ok with a peaceful transition of power. Amy the two candidates sat at the same table during the dinner, separated only by Cardinal Timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york. In other campaign news, a 10th woman has come forward to say she was sexually assaulted by donald trump. Karena virginia said trump approached her in 1998 outside the u. S. Open tennis tournament and grabbed her breast. Virginia said after she initially flinched, trump remarked, dont you know who i am . Virginia spoke out on thursday with a message to the republican nominee. Your random moment of sexual pleasure came at my expense and affected me greatly. Mr. Trump revealed his true character in his own words, which indicated he felt entitled to grab women by their private parts. Amy in news from iraq, at least 16 people have died after isis militants attacked a power station in the oilrich city of kirkuk. This came as u. S. Backed forces continued their assault on mosul which fell to the Islamic State , two years ago. The United Nations has warned it could force up to one Million People to be displaced. On thursday the pentagon announced the first u. S. Soldier had died in the attempt to retake mosul. The top United Nations human rights official has said that the siege and bombing of eastern aleppo in syria has constituted crimes of historic proportions. Zeid Raad Al Hussein spoke earlier today during a special session of the u. N. Human rights council. Armed opposition groups continue to fire mortars and projectiles into civilian neighborhoods of western aleppo, but indiscriminate airstrikes across the eastern part of the city by Government Forces and their allies are responsible for the overwhelming majority of civilian casualties. And these relations constitute war crimes. And of knowingly committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against civilians, they constitute crimes against humanity. Amy south africa has begun the formal process to withdraw from the International Criminal court. The news comes just two days after another african nation, burundi, became the first country to ever pull out of the court. Over the years, the court has been accused of disproportionately targeting african leaders. Human rights watch criticized south africas move. The group said south africas proposed withdrawal from the International Criminal court shows startling disregard for justice from a country long seen as a Global Leader on accountability for victims of the gravest crimes. In news from latin america, Honduran Security Forces fired Water Cannons and tear gas at protesters thursday in the honduran capital of tegucigalpa. The protest was led by copinh, the Civic Council of popular and indigenous organizations of honduras. The leader of copinh, berta caceres, was assassinated in march. Thursdays protest came just days after two honduran campesino leaders were also assassinated. Tension is escalating between washington and manila after newly elected filipino president Rodrigo Duterte announced a separation from the United States and realignment with beijing. And will realign myself maybe i will also [indiscernible] there are three of us against the world. [applause] only way. Amy the philippines is a former u. S. Colony and longtime military ally. Meanwhile, in other news from the philippines, dozens of protesters were injured during a demonstration wednesday outside the u. S. Embassy in manila when a police van repeatedly rammed into the crowd. The protesters were calling for an end to the u. S. Military presence in the philippines. For the first time in two decades a new Nuclear Reactor , has gone online in the United States. The Tennessee Valley authority announced watts bar unit 2 began Generating Energy on wednesday. Construction on the 4. 7 billion reactor began in 1973. Four other reactors are being constructed in georgia in rhode island, two activists from the fang collective were arrested thursday when they chained themselves to a concrete device inside a td bank in providence. They were protesting the banks Financial Support of the Dakota Access pipeline. Federal prosecutors have announced they plan to charge a former National Security Agency Contractor with violating the espionage act in whats being described as the largest theft of classified government material ever. Prosecutors accuse Harold Thomas martin, an employee of booz allen hamilton, of stealing classified material from the nsa over a 20year period, but there is no evidence he shared the information. Martin is scheduled to appear in court today. A new report from the Environmental Protection agencys Inspector General has concluded the agency took seven months longer than necessary to warn residents of flint water flint, michigan, about lead contamination in their water. The report found the epa had enough information in june 2015 to issue an emergency order under the Safe Drinking Water act but the agency didnt act until january 2016. Flints lead poisoning began when an unelected emergency manager appointed by michigan Governor Rick Snyder switched the source of the citys Drinking Water to the corrosive flint river in 2014. And britain has announced it will pardon up to 15,000 gay and bisexual men who were convicted under old laws that criminalized homosexuality. The pardons are being done under the socalled turing law, named after alan turing, who cracked nazi germanys big name of code, but was prosecuted for being gay. He committed suicide in 1954 at the age of 41. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now, democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Juan and im juan gonzalez. Welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. We begin todays show with an explosive story of two Chicago Police officers who blew the whistle on a gang of their colleagues after they discovered they were demanding bribes from drug dealers in the Housing Projects of chicago, arresting their rivals and blocking any internal investigations into their actions. The whistleblowers, shannon ,palding and Danny Echeverria spent five years working with the Chicago Police department and the a the i in their case only to be sidelined outted as informants, threatened, and eventually forced out of the Police Department. In contrast, the named senior officials and cops who helped cover for their fellow officers were able to retire from the force with their pensions intact and faced no punishment for the role in the coverup. Spalding said she is even received death threats. She and her partner both took stressrelated medical leave and she is been diagnosed with post dramatic stress disorder. Amy their ordeal is chronicled in a fourpart investigation published by the intercept called the code of silence. Part one is headlined in the Chicago Police department, if the bosses say it didnt happen, it didnt happen. It is written by the awardwinning chicago journalist, jamie kalven, who has made a career out of exposing Police Misconduct in the city. He spent three years interviewing spalding for the report. He is also known for uncovering the autopsy report that showed Laquan Mcdonald was shot 16 times by Chicago Police in 2014 and was the first to report the existence of the video of the shooting, which was released 400 days after mcdonald was killed. Thursday marked the second anniversary of the killing. Kalven is now working with spalding on a project called the invisible institute, which has set up an encrypted drop box for Chicago Police officers to anonymously upload evidence of corruption. They also offer to link whistleblowing cops to mentalhealth and legal resources. For more we go to chicago where jamie kalven joins us to discuss investigation. And we are joined by the whistleblower at the center of his story, shannon spalding. We welcome you both to democracy now jamie, we begin with you. Lay out the story. This is a server coast saga serpicotime saga of our time. This in the last decade. The scene of the crime has essentially disappeared. They make conscientious efforts to bring this criminal activity to the attention of their superiors. They are blown off. Ultimately, go to the fbi and provide information it is not conclusive information, but grounds for investigation. They then are detailed to work undercover with the fbi and pursue this investigation for a number of years. Are at the point of breaking the case wide open when they are outted within the department and have since suffered constant retaliation. I think part of what is really important about this story is what it illustrates about the nature of the code of silence. I think the common understanding of the code of silence is it is a kind of peertopeer phenomena of the rankandfile, were in the foxhole together, you got my back, nobody likes a tattletale. There is that dimension with the police culture, but what is so striking about this story is the retaliation against these officers is ordered by highranking supervisory officials within the department. So it is really a story in great detail of how the code of silence operates at the center of the Chicago Police department. Juan jamie, about the issue of retaliation being ordered at high levels. How was that documented in the lawsuit . Also, the city settled for 2 million before there was a trial. Could you talk about the tactic of the city of settling the suit . Right. So in the midst of this ordeal, the two officers, shannon and danny, brought a whistleblower lawsuit really, and employment suit, hoping above all to be protected from further retaliation. It only compounded and intensified the retaliation at that point. There are a number of allegations in the lawsuit. The intercept keys links to all of the underlying legal documents. , the commander of narcotics, the chief of organized crime, made it clear they did not want these officers working in unit they controlled. They went so far in one instance of really delivering a threat, paradoxically, it was conveyed by the chief of internal affairs who is charged with investigating this sort of thing, a threat against the personal safety. Theyieve the quote was, if call for backup, it is not coming. This was not just a matter of being ostracized were shunned within the department, although, it certainly was that. As shannon says, at one point in the article, i quoted her saying, we were officers without a department. They are left out on the streets in this really dangerous investigation, investigating a team of officers who are thought twoave been implicated in murders. It has not been proven yet, but it scarcely has been investigated apart from shannon and dennys work. There left wholly exposed. They are left wholly exposed. This is coming from the top. This was not some are more in behavior, this is the machinery of how the Chicago Police department controls the narrative. Theoted the line about bosses say didnt happen, didnt ppen. That is really at the center of this tour he. Amy lets go to shannon spalding, former Chicago Police officer. Agrees to chicago settle a whistleblower lawsuit brought by spalding and her colleague Daniel Echeverria who allege they suffered retaliation for reporting and investigating criminal activity by fellow officers. Shannon spalding, tell us, what was it that you were investigating . When did it happen . When did the coverup, you feel, and the retaliation against you start . My partner danny and i started investigating allegations that kept surfacing there was a sergeant, ronald watts, and members of his team who work directly underneath them that were imposing what they called on the streets a watch tax. He was receiving money from drug dealers that ran different drug president in a Housing Project in the surrounding area. In exchange for that money, they were guarantee protection from prosecution an arrest. In addition to that, the allegations were that this crew of rogues officers under the command of ronald watts were also planting narcotics on innocent individuals and falsifying police reports, falsely arresting them, putting them in prison for false allegations. Ofre is also the allegations physical violence, of being beaten if they did not want to comply and pay this tax, as well as warrantless seizures, kicking in doors, and going through peoples apartments, stealing everything that wasnt nailed down. And the allegations kept being repeated over and over again from every individual we would do intelligence with along with our confidential informants. I think you said, when to the retaliation begin on this investigation . We began to investigate it and brought it to the fbi in 2006. We were not officially assigned with our department to work with the fbi that time. We were doing this on our own time. 2007, we were assigned by the Chicago Police department to work with the fbi solely on what was dubbed operation brass tacks. Brass meaning the top officials in the Police Department. Brass refers to a boss. Tax, because that is what they were and limiting. I believe it was 2010, august 2010, when i realized that our identity had been compromised and that we were now out. This was supposed to be a strictly confidential investigation. It was imperative our identities not be revealed because the targets of this investigation were officers and bosses, and we did not know how far up the chain it would go. Which meant they had access to all of our personal information where we lived, our children, anything that they wanted which made us very vulnerable. To expose our identity is basically throwing us to the walls. These targets could now know who we are, what we were investigating. You have to remember, these are Police Officers. They know what they did. And now they know that we know. And with that comes the implication of federal prison time, losing your job, losing your livelihood. And makes us targets it very dangerous for us to work. Juan i want to turn to janet hanna, a 20 year veteran of the Chicago Police department. She says she witnessed the harassment of you, shannon, and your partner Danny Echeverria. On one occasion, hanna said she overheard a sergeant warning you about your own safety. This is hanna telling nbc chicagos phil rogers what she overheard. She better where her bulletproof vest. She may go home in a casket and he doesnt want have to call her daughter and tell her that she is gone. And that was because she would be in danger from bad guys and they would not protect her from the bad guys come or she would be in danger from her fellow officers . Both. Juan what about that . What kind of retaliation did you feel, one, you are when you were still working there . It was horrific. I actually felt so anxious walking into work every day filed thece i whistleblower lawsuit, i am now working for the defendant of my lawsuit. Can you just imagine what that was like . I felt like a was walking into the lions do with a steak around my neck every single day. I recall the incident. It is burned in my memory. It was my direct supervisor at the time that was telling me that because we had investigated other officers, because they basically we had broken the code of silence, we had gone thatst other sworn members the officers within that unit, the supervisors relate to me the officers on the team and in this unit will not back you up. Youre on your own. You are in a lot of danger. Say, yourer as to going to end up in a box and im going to be telling your daughter you are coming home in a box. Those were the type of threats that would happen on a regular basis. The retaliation was relentless and it was daily. Juan i want to also ask jamie kalven, you have been investigating both police abuse and now this entire Police Corruption scandal. For those of us who have been following crime stories and Police Departments now for decades, this is almost like deja vu all over again. Thet wasnt serpico in 1960s in new york city and in the 1990s, similar type of scandal with a corrupt group of officers headed by michael dowd, again, a Police Officer within the department trying to ferret them out. But the dowd criminal group was only revealed when Long Island Police arrested him on charges. It seems to me there has been a link between corruption and Police Department and abuse within Police Department. Seems to be an upsurge in abuse at the same time there upsurge is an corruption. I am wondering your understanding what has been going on in chicago. I think that is well put. A huge part of that is the war on drugs and the way we have conducted it. I think we have found consistent consistently them will double scandals, it happens and specialized units, working in supposedly combating the war on drugs. But again and again, that proves to be a sort of setting the in thefor corruption abuse. What shannon was describing was the sort of protection racket, hugely corrupt, the officers are really an integral part of the drug trade. At the same time, as part of that, they are daily, multiple times, violating the Constitutional Rights of citizens. False arrest, excessive force, the fabrication of evidence, on and on. So this all goes together. And i think we will continue to have occurring scandals of this nature until we can address until we can address this term code of silence within the department. And until officers like shannon and danny are held up as models of good Police Officers and good schemework, until the shifts, right now for officers to break ranks and come forward and report really grievous abuse by fellow officers requires them to be her wrote almost to the point of selfsacrifice. That cannot work. Amy in federally former chicago 2015, Police Department superintendent Garry Mccarthy released a statement to nbc chicago saying superintendent mccarthy and the cpd have zero tolerance for retaliation against whistleblowers. However, the city believes the claims of these particular plaintiffs are without merit. The city will continue to vigorously litigate this case. That was in february 2015. Shannon, the day youre going to trial, right, may 2016, they settled with you and danny, your fellow Police Officer, for 2 million . That is correct. They waited until the last minute and then they decided to settle. I personally believe that is because they did not want me getting on the stand and telling howything that i know about the operation within the Police Department really works. And they did not want that on public record. So they would rather settle then have me expose all of their dirty laundry in a courtroom. Amy how much money were you talking about when it came to what these officers were doing . Oh, you know, we will never have a final count. The range buried. We got information that some of the drug lines would pay a couple thousand dollars a week. With several sources say that one of the biggest joke lines that was run in the city of theygo was named obama and would pay as much as 50,000. It depended on the drug dealer, the amount of money they were bringing end, the amount of protection they would need, how many locations they were running would vary. It was really a criminal enterprise, a complete business a criminal business. Amy has anyone been prosecuted . Another playts and guilty and served sentences in federal prison. I believe it was 18 and 22 months. I believe ronald watts to 22 months. Juan jamie kalven, youre interviewing these officers for several years before you were able before the intercept story came out. Can you talk about the difficulties in getting this story out . This is a complicated story for journalist to figure out how to bring to the public. Edward snowden comes to us with a treasure trove of documents, we know what to do with that sort of whistleblower. When some of you like shannon and her partner danny come with a compelling story that they have theyve taken great risk to tell, by the nature of the story, it cannot be fully corroborated. You cannot double source. Other people who were in the room wont talk to you. It is fundamentally a story about the code of silence, which we should call it by its true name, which is official line. Concerted, sustained lying by high officials. The question of how to tell that story in a way that is consistent with journalistic ethics and standards, you know, i struggled with that. And i found ultimately with the intercept, a great partner in bringing this tory out, and where the story sort of ends. I urge people to go to the intercept site and read it. Partly because of shannons great storytelling ability, a reads like a novel, but it ends at a point where i want to leave the reader with a question. Shannon and danny are telling the truth you make your own judgments about credibility if they are telling the truth, then a whole array of high officials are lying and lying in concert. So the story really ultimately hinges on arriving at that question. And that question remains open for the city of chicago. The settlement of the case did not resolve the issue of shannons case did not resolve the issues raised by the case. What we hope to do through the reporting an ongoing reporting about this is to keep those issues very centrally in the public eye. Amy very quickly, late last her, chicago mayor rahm emanuel apologized for Laquan Mcdonalds death. In his speech to the city council, emanuel broke with the citys long history of denying the existence of the code of silence. As we move forward, im looking for a new leader of the Chicago Police department to address the problems at the very heart of the policing profession. The problem is sometimes referred to as the thin blue line. The problem is other times referred to as the code of silence. Ignore, itendency to is the tendency to deny, it is the tendency in some cases to cover up the bad actions of a colleague or colleagues. No officer should be allowed to behave as if they are above the law just because they are responsible for upholding the law. Permitting a protecting even the smallest acts of abuse by a tiny fraction of our officers leads to a culture where extreme acts of abuse are more likely. Just like what happened to Laquan Mcdonald. Amy this comes as thursday marked the second anniversary of the death of Laquan Mcdonald, fatally shot by Chicago Police officer jason van dyke. Jamie kalven, you were the first report the existence of the video of the shooting, which was released 400 days after mcdonald was killed, released after mayor rahm emanuel was reelected. As we wrap up, can you talk about the significance of here he is acknowledging the code of silence and what this case has meant for the city basically, Laquan Mcdonald shot 16 times. It is almost one bullet for every year of his life. He died at the age of 17. It is an extraordinary moment for the city. I have now compared the public narrative of Laquan Mcdonald to ill, a story emett t to soak limited to soak eliminated the underlying violence of the jim crow era. About laquanns mcdonald, notably the atrocity of his death, but the Institutional Response after, which is really a classic illustration of the code of silence as control of the narrative, you know, the suppression of evidence, intimidation of witnesses, fabrication of reports. That now has become a sort of framing narrative in chicago and caused a political earthquake changed the landscape of the city. So we have amid all of the sort of bad news and all of the of wrongdoing and corruption within the department, i think it is important to emphasize as a consequence of the mcdonald tragedy, there is an historic opening in chicago for meaningful police reform. The language that was one of the mayors better moments, acknowledging the existence of the code of silence. So there really is going forward, i believe, a kind of irresistible momentum toward reform. But it is a big challenge. It is going to be a longs long. Only by addressing the culture within the department that we were for to as the code of silence will change really the allingful we can make sorts of changes in institutions, tweak procedures, but culture will always trump. Amy jamie kalven, thank you for being with us. We will link to your series code of silence at democracynow. Org. Shannon spalding, thank you for your bravery and speaking out. Former Chicago Police officer, whistleblower featured in the series. She said she suffered retaliation for reporting and investing investigating criminal activity by fellow chicago officer. Back, shaun king joins us to talk about many issues. Stay with us. [music break] amy human by ragnbone man. The song is featured in Ava Duvernays new documentary, 13th. Catch it on netflix. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with juan gonzalez. Juan the election is just 18 days away and three president ial debates behind them now, Hillary Clinton and donald trump are campaigning. Inlary clinton will be raleigh, north carolina, where she will be joined by the mothers of the Movement Women who lost their children to policeinvolved incidents and gun violence. Among them, sybrina fulton, the mother of trayvon martin, gwen carr, the mother of eric garner, and geneva reedveal, the mother of sandra bland. Amy the event comes as residents in new york protest yet another fatal police shooting. 66yearold African American Deborah Danner was killed by a new york Police Officer, a sergeant tuesday. , danner had Mental Health issues. Police say she was shot and killed in her own home in the bronx after a neighbor called 911. When police arrived, they found danner naked in her bedroom holding a pair of scissors. Authorities say Sergeant Hugh barry fatally shot her after she picked up a baseball bat. This is new york mayor bill de blasio. Old,borah danner, 66 years and known to the nypd as someone who suffered from Mental Illness. And 80 shooting of Deborah Danner is tragic and the shooting of Deborah Danner is tragic and it is unacceptable. It never should have happened. It is as simple as that. It never should have happened. Amy Sergeant Hugh barry has been sued twice in recent years for brutality. Deborah danner has previously expressed concern about Police Violence against those living with Mental Illnesses. In a 2012 essay, danner wrote we are all aware of the two frequent news stories about the mentally ill who come up against Law Enforcement instead of Mental Health professionals and end up dead. For more we are joined by shaun king, black lives matter activist and senior justice writer for the new york daily news. It is great to have you with us. Talk about this case. I am disturbed. So many of us when we see Deborah Danner, think of our own mothers and grandmothers and the possibility that one time in this country, some of the facing Mental Illness and battling through it would be shot and killed by police is disturbing. The truth is, this happens hundreds of times every year, year in and year out. She is just the latest. It should not have happened. Thats right. I appreciate mayor de blasio and what he is saying. I think he has helped frame it as the problem that it is. But we have seen tough talk on Police Brutality in the city many times. What her family and what those of us who care about her and others want is justice. The officers should have been fired immediately. We hope that charges will be filed as well. That then we got the news the states attorney general, eric schneiderman, has decided not to intervene as a special prosecutor in the case because supposedly shes a list of most to investigate Fatal Police Shootings where the citizens are unarmed. Bat, she was holding a supposedly, that means she was armed . I was surprised by that. Everybody is looking for an advocate. A lot of us thought he was an advocate in the situation that we could count on. When he made the decision, he was kind of taking his hands off of it. I was really surprised. He has left it now to the bronx da to file charges. What happened was not just wrong that is part of what bothers me about what the left mayor de blasio and the Police Commissioner has said. It wasnt just a mistake. A woman who deserved treatment and compassion was shot and killed. Were talking about a crime. At the very least, it was negligent homicide, manslaughter. It was completely avoidable. One of us could have found a way to take her to the hospital. So a Police Officer who is trained, a sergeant, should have been able to. Amy what about his history of brutality and what has happened to him . Right now even though he is off of active duty, people every ordered him many times there is even a video of him in another case of Police Brutality. What we see in new york is similar to chicago in cities all across the country that people on the streets are suffering this violence. They do their very best to report it. And Police Departments and the city governments are not doing what they can do to hold bad police accountable. Juan especially in a situation where so many times it is a family who called the police for help with the emotionally disturbed person. Rather than either retreat from the situation or wait for specialized units to come in or even taser the individual, they pulled out a gun. And this officer had a taser. There were so many other ways this could have been handled. It is at a point now where there is a movement of families of the mentally ill across the country saying, i think we should no longer call 911. That 911 are such a danger for them and there are another there are now hundreds of examples were people called thinking theyre going to get medical help only for their loved one to be shot and killed or brutalized in some way. And go you wrote amy you wrote a 25 part series outlining ways to reduce Police Brutality. It could have been a 100 part series. What causes least brutality is complex. There are a series of issues we have to address. One of them is relevant for this , when people call 911 for medical help, they get a onesizefitsall solution that ultimately ends with an armed officer arriving at the scene. So one of the solutions is, when you called 911, we need a much more nuanced complicated system that route a Mental Health call to a Mental Health team that shows maybe it has support from an officer. I liken it to this imagine every time someone called 911 for a fire, they brought a bulldozer and said, were going to bulldoze this house. It is a danger to the neighborhood. Although it may solve the situation in total, it would be ridiculously destructive. That is what mentally ill families often deal with. They need a careful, crafted solution. Instead, they get someone with their guns drawn. It is a terrible thing. Juan in terms of the overall situation now with the black lives Matter Movement, the enormous impact it has had on the public conversation over Police Brutality, yet the lack of substantive reform to address the problem . Yeah, i think that is accurate. For the past two years a lot of people asked me, what has the black lives Matter Movement achieved . I think in the past two years, injusticeareness of in america. Not just here, but people all around the world are aware of it. It is easy to underestimate how difficult that was to achieve. Even though were having this conversation, even at the piece we just talked about in the intercept that was released, that was difficult to achieve. We are pivoting from, what does it take now that we are all fully aware of this problem, what does it take to make this hard change possible . Some of it is typical means that we have used like the federal government providing some type of sweeping legislation. I really dont think that will work. Police brutality is highly local , with local Police Departments, local city governments, local laws. There are 20,000 Police Departments in our country. What were really talking about is 20,000 battles, 20,000 different series of reforms that have to happen. It is incredibly difficult. Amy i want to talk about athletes but were going to go to break first. We will talk about Colin Kaepernick. Our guest is shaun king, black lives matter activist and the senior justice writer for the new york daily news. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with juan gonzalez. We are talking to shaun king, black lives matter activist and the senior justice writer for the new york daily news. Lets turn to a story that you have been covering for quite some time. That is the nfl or to back Colin Kaepernick who started his first game of the of the San Francisco 49ers this past sunday. Before the game, he continued his protest against racial oppression and Police Brutality by kneeling on one knee during the pre Game National anthem. After sundays game kaepernick defended his actions, which have sparked similar protests across the country. I dont understand what is unamerican about fighting for liberty and justice for everybody, for the equality that this country says it stands for. You know, to me, i see it is very patriotic and american to up hold the United States to the standards it says it lives by. That is something that needs to be addressed. Amy that is nfl order back Colin Kaepernick. , you have written so much about this. I respect him a great deal and it takes enormous amount of courage to do what he has done to be able to protest Police Brutality and racial violence on an nfl field with millions of people watching. I think some of us have underestimated the courage that it takes with so many eyeballs on you to make that statement. But colin is just tried to do what we are all trying to do, to try to keep these problems in the limelight so we can get closer to having these solutions. He is a brilliant guy. I think when people think of nfl athletes, they forget that they are citizens of this country, that they are bothered by the problems that we all face. So colin is enormously courageous and he sparked a movement, in essence, in a lot of ways is a Youth Movement that is not being talked about. Kids in 38 states have taken a knee a football fields in high schools all across the country. High School Volleyball teams, basketball teams. Amy 11 and 12yearold in beaumont, texas. Young boys on a Youth Football League have done that. Enormous price. At first her coach was suspended. Their coach was a father figure to them. He was suspended for the entire year. And then their season was disbanded by the league. We are finding a lot of people paying a huge price for taking a knee. People continue to miss the point of why theyre doing it. Orhas nothing to do with war military. It has everything to do with them saying, we want to use this moment that we have while eyeballs are on his to say how frustrated we are about injustice. Juan speaking of the moment that we have, were in the final days of the president ial race. You have also written. Xtensively about the campaign initially, you were a big supporter of Bernie Sanders and now you are faced or all of us are faced with the choice between donald trump and Hillary Clinton and the other independent party figures. What is your take now as were heading into the final days of the election . It has been a frustrating experience. Im still brokenhearted that bernie did not win. I did not think it would sting as much is a bit. Not just because i love bernie, but i respected his ideas and values. A dont really see those so much in either major party candidate. I joined bernie and this idea that it was essential for us to stop donald trump. And i believe that. I believe, as many others do, that he was as great a danger as we say he is. I dont believe he will win, but i believe all of us will have to go out and vote and do what we have to do to stop him for sure. Amy i have always wondered, if donald trump, if Bernie Sanders had gotten anything like the television attention and Media Attention of donald trump, i mean, the studies that showed back in 2015 and what trump was 28 times. You still have Bernie Sanders getting these massive crowds with no amplifying of his view, very little in the corporate media, until the very end, what that would have meant as now the media decries whoever created donald trump which, of course, was them. I think we learned a lot of lessons. One, bernie still won 21 states without that. I think what a lot of us are taking is there is a Progressive Movement in this country that came very close to having Bernie Sanders elected without the media machine behind him. We learned a lot of tough lessons. We learned a lot of things that we will have to adjust if we go back to the table again. But none of us are really pleased, at least no true progresses are pleased with Hillary Clintons platform or commitment even on issues of lease brutality. I have grown to believe she does care in part because she has been a lot of time with families affected by Police Brutality. So even those of us who are deeply skeptical of her equipment commitment, i think she has he balked. We will have to wait and see if she is elected what that evolution means. Amy is a very major difference between president obama getting elected and if Hillary Clinton were elected . President obama, racist backlash, arthur birther movement. So many issues that people cared about from peace to guantanamo to racial justice, all of these issues. People felt the movements were not carried forward because they stepped back. But now there is such skepticism about Hillary Clinton that they are ready to go at the gate, that november 9 might be a mobilization as opposed to stepping back. I think it should be. I think we would all be making a huge mistake if we did step back. I think it is time for all of us to push forward, to hold whoever is elected i believe she will be elected to hold her accountable. I think we put so much faith in the election of president obama, that when we stepped back, we missed an opportunity. Im disappointed with a lot of things he has been handsoff on. Again, those are the hard lessons that we have learned about what it means to hold elected leaders that we respect and maybe even admire, to hold them accountable on the things that matter to us. Juan speaking of president obama, in the last debate, i think one of the most telling moments was toward the end of the debate when trump says, and if you want four more years of obama, elect her. It was almost as if his people are still fighting to remove obama from the american conscience. Rd which is a wei strategy, because the matter what we think of him, he is at his most popular. It seems that trump does not have a strategy to win. He continues to double down to appeal to his base which is dangerous. Trumps base is fueled by White Supremacy and bigotry. He continues to do everything he can to appeal to them and do nothing to run the base. Amy it is the 50th anniversary of the black panthers. This week the british website publish an article in which going brown, former chair of the black Panther Party, said black lives matter has a plantation mentality. The next wave of young people running out here who are , complaining and protesting about the murders of young black men and women by the police all over the country, they will protest but they will not rise up in an organized fashion, with an agenda, to create revolutionary change. We advocated Community Selfdefense organizations to be formed, so that we would not be assaulted by the police, so that we would bear arms and assume our human rights. Your response to her critique . And then the true directory from black panthers to black lives matter . I love the black Panther Party. I spent some time over the past few weeks with robbie seale, the cofounder of the black Panther Party. He loves the black lives Matter Movement and has been immensely supportive and encouraging not only to me but to many activists. I was disappointed in what elaine said. I know elaine. I have talked with her many times. When elaine got involved with the black Panther Party, it was about two years old. That is where we are in the black lives matter mook as well. Matter movement as well. She evaluated the totality of the black Panther Party, all that it accomplished in 10 years and compared it to where we are right now in year two. It is an unfair comparison to say where we are in year two compared with the black Panther Party was year two. Two years in, it literally only have 4000, 5000 people that were committed to it, to its practices. It was still trying to determine where it went and what it would do. So i think if you look at where we are now versus where the black Panther Party was at the same time, i think we are doing well. I understand her criticism saying, you know, what are they doing compared to what they accomplished. But even some of us look at the dangers of what happened to black panther leaders from targeted assassinations to go intel pro, and some of the lessons that we learned from them has caused us to change our methods. The black lives Matter Movement is not a carbon copy of what the black Panther Party did. How we do what we did will be uniquely different. Our time is different. I respect her, revere her, and it i her, but i was disappointed to read what some of she said. Juan the black had their party was in organization and the black lives matter is a movement, which has come up in a thetaneous faction whereas black panther started in one place as a discipline organization. It is a different form of attempting to achieve social change. What i found with, with many of our elders, they are unaware that the black lives Matter Movement does have a comprehensive platform. There are hundreds of organizations that see themselves as a part of this movement in all 50 states all across the country. And they have the own policy platforms. It is difficult for one person, her or anybody else, to wrap their mind around the specific fights and battles that we are fighting. So a lot of people just are not informed dow organized this Movement Really is. Amy shaun king, injustice boycott initiative. Explain what it is. On december 5, hundreds of thousands of us are coming together to boycott injustice in this country. What we mean is, we believe there are not only cities and states which continue to underwrite the cost of injustice, that continue to back it and support it, be it Police Brutality or racial violence, but also corporations that are behind it and either say nothing or do nothing or even worse than that, are specifically backing whichlice departments continue to be brutal all over this country. Were launching a targeted boycott on december 5, not for a day or two days, but for our our motto is the big armory bus boycott that lasted 381 days until they saw change. Amy do you have corporations targeted . We do. Were holding our cards close to our chest until december 5. Shaun king, thank you for being with us, black lives matter activist, senior justice writer for the new york daily news. We will link to your columns at democracynow. Org. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now ] nxnx [announcer] P Allen Smiths garden to table is brought to you by the berry family of nurseries growers of edibles, hardy trees and shrubs, and fresh holiday greenery. And by the makers of jobes organic fertilizer now in spikes, granular and water soluble formulas easy gardener. Com a few ideas about fathers day coming up right after this. Hi, im allen smith. Welcome to garden to table. Now this is all about