Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20160831

Her aunt, who is a Cleveland Police detective who specializes in Domestic Abuse cases. Plus, we will look at how incumbents were the big winners in tuesdays primaries in arizona and florida as senators john mccain and marco rubio and congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz beat back challengers. And we will return to our conversation with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Glenn Greenwald on the 2016 race. It is a little bit hard for me to take seriously complaints the donald trump wants to get too close to putin he was a dictator or authoritarian when they closest allies in the world, in the United States government, are themselves dictators and tyrants beginning with the saudi regime and going throughout that region and into other regions as well, cuddling up to dictators has long been and continues to be a u. S. Policy. Amy all that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Donald trump is visiting mexico today, where hell meet privately with mexican president Enrique Pena Nieto. Among those believed to be going our former new york mayor Rudolph Giuliani and alabama senator jeff sessions. This comes as donald trump is slated to give a major speech on immigration and arizona tonight. Trump has made the mass deportation of 11 million undocumented immigrants one of the cornerstone proposals of his campaign, although under his new Campaign Manager, kellyanne conway, he appears to be backing away from the mass deportation plan. Trump has also called mexicans he has vowed to build a wall and forced mexico to pay for it. He has also called mexicans rapists and criminals. Mexican president Enrique Pena Nieto has fiercely criticized trump in the past, once comparing him to adolf hitler and benito mussolini. Meanwhile, a new mother jones investigation reveals trumps modeling agency, trump model management, may have broken immigration laws by profiting from foreign models who did not have u. S. Work visas. The article is based on interviews with three models who worked with trumps agency. Two of the models say trumps agency never attempted to secure valid u. S. Work visas, even while the women performed modeling jobs for trump. Canadian model rachel blais, who appeared on trumps tv show the apprentice, while she did not have a valid u. S. Work visa said, it is like modernday slavery. There have been questions raised about whether trumps wife may have violated u. S. Immigration ins during her modeling gigs new york in the mid1990s. Donald Trumps Campaign ceo , Stephen Bannon is again under , fire after a recording surfaced from a 2011 interview in which bannon called progressive women a bunch of dykes. They could have husbands, love their children, would not be a bunch of dykes that came from the Seven Sisters schools up in new england. Amy in recent days, Stephen Bannon has also faced questions about Domestic Abuse, alleged antisemitic comments and apparent voter fraud. An election is republican , senators john mccain of arizona and marco rubio of florida won closelywatched primaries after being challenged by a pair of republicans who had embraced donald trump. Florida democratic congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz defeated progressive challenger tim canova, who was endorsed by senator Bernie Sanders. Florida state attorney angela corey was also defeated. She had faced widespread criticism for her handling of several prominent cases, including the killing of africanamerican teenager Trayvon Martin by white neighborhood vigilante george zimmerman, and the case of Marissa Alexander who was sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing what she maintains was a warning shot at her abusive husband. Well have more on the primaries later in the broadcast with jim dean. U. S. Military members and veterans have taken to twitter in support of nfl 49ers quarterback colin kaepernick, who refused to rise for the National Anthem before a preseason nfl game friday in a protest against Police Brutality and in solidarity with the black lives matter movement. Some have criticized kaepernicks protest, saying it disrespected veterans. But on tuesday, the hashtag veteransforkaepernick began trending as vets and military members said they supported the protest. Air force veteran Sunny Anderson tweeted i took an oath served, so players on a team i dont even like could have freedom of speech veteransforkaepernick. The Southern Poverty Law Center has declared white lives matter a hate group. Southern Poverty Law Center said the white lives matter website says their movement is dedicated to the preservation of the white race. That tells you all you need to know. At one recent white lives matter protest outside the naacp office in houston, members carried militarygrade assault rifles and confederate flags. The selfproclaimed Islamic State says one of its leaders was killed in a u. S. Drone strike in northern syria. Abu muhammad aladnani was reportedly isiss top spokesman and media strategist. The pentagon has confirmed the u. S. Strike, but not whether aladnani was killed. Meanwhile, afp is reporting Yemeni Security Officials Say a u. S. Drone strike has killed three people in southern yemen. The victims of tuesdays strike were suspected to be members of al qaeda. According to the u. S. Government. A new Associated Press investigation has documented 72 mass graves across isis territory in iraq and syria. Most of the graves have not yet been excavated. The ap reports the number of victims could be anywhere from 5000 to 15,000 people. One of the graves is expected to contain the bodies of as many as 600 prisoners killed during a massacre in june 2014. According to satellite imagery, their bodies may be lined up sidebyside in a grave stretching the length of two football fields. In somalia, at least 15 people have died in a truck bomb explosion in the capital mogadishu. 45 more people were wounded in tuesdays attack near the president ial palace. The militant Group Al Shabab has claimed responsibility. In brazil, massive protests against the impeachment of suspended president Dilma Rousseff have rocked sao paulo for a second day. Thousands took to the streets, blockaded major thoroughfares , and lighting fires. The Police Responded by firing flash bang grenades and tear gas at the crowds. This is one of the protesters. It is not our intention to change the senators votes because we believe the cards have been dealt. Our intention is to show were going to fight until the end. We will fight for each and every right they try to take away. Amy the Brazilian Senate is expected to vote to impeach Dilma Rousseff as early as later today. In colombia, three environmental activists who were organizing against illegal mining have been assassinated. Local organizers say activists joel meneses, nereo meneses guzman, and ariel sotelo were kidnapped by armed gunmen dressed as military officers on monday. Their bodies were found dead hours later. Joel meneses was the founder of the Campesino Organization cima. The murders came the same day the historic ceasefire between the colombian government and farc rebels took effect. As many as 300 environmental activists were assassinated in colombia in 2015. President obama is slated to meet with philippines president Rodrigo Duterte next week, amid growing concerns about the rising death toll from dutertes socalled war on drugs. At least 2000 people have already been killed by police or vigilantes in socalled drug operations since duterte took office two months ago. Human rights watch says among the victims are a 5yearold girl. Police in the philippines have encouraged vigilantism. This is National Police chief ronald de la rosa urging people to kill drug dealers. Do you want to kill them . Kill them. Kill them because youre the victims. Pour gasoline on their houses and burn it down. Show them your anger. These people have long been getting rich. What about you . Your brains are getting small and melting. Amy European Union officials have ordered apple to pay 14. 5 billion in unpaid taxes to ireland the biggest tax ruling in eu history. The European Commission says apple received an illegal tax break from irish officials under which apple paid a tax rate of 0. 005 . Apple is one of the Largest Technology companies in the world. Officials have released the 911 calls from the june 12 massacre at orlandos pulse nightclub. 49 people died during the attack. Most of the victims were young latino members of the lgbt community. The release comes after months of delay, during which the fbi asked Law Enforcement agencies to withhold public records about the shooting. Here is an excerpt of one of the 911 calls. One of my amy in arkansas, a mother has been released after spending 35 days in a county jail after she accidentally bounced a 29 check five years ago. Nikki petree was sentenced to jail last month by a judge accused of running a debtors prison. Petree had already been arrested at least seven times over the bounced check and paid at least 600 in court fines more than 20 times more than the original debt. Petree said every time i go to jail, theyd let me out immediately for 100. Theyd turn around and add 600 or 700 more to my bond. I couldnt afford to pay. They cornered me, and there was no way out from underneath it. I felt overwhelmed and hopeless. President obama has commuted the sentences of 111 prisoners serving time for lowlevel drug offenses. Among those whose sentences will be shortened is tim tyler, who was serving a life sentence for possessing lsd while following around the grateful dead in his early 20s. In total, obama has commuted the sentences of 673 prisoners more than any recent president. There are more than 190,000 federal prisoners currently imprisoned across the United States. And here in new york city, the New York Public Library has established the First Permanent library at rikers island. The jails new library has 1200 books, which can be checked out two at a time. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. A young girl who shot dead her abusive father now may face life in prison, sparking National Outcry over the treatment of Domestic Violence survivors. On july 28, 14yearold Bresha Meadows allegedly killed her father, jonathan meadows, with a bullet to his head as he slept. Only two months earlier, bresha had run away from home, telling relatives that she was scared for her life of because her father was beating her mother and threatening to kill the whole family. This is breshas aunt, sheri latessa, speaking to wkbn in cleveland. It was like she was in jail. Nobody in that county that we called would do anything for those kids. She told on him. You tell the kids to tell, what happens . Nobody did anything. She told. She did what she was supposed to do. She even knew what was going wrong or whole life and nobody helped her. Theres a murder charge against the child. It is ridiculous. If anything, she did it for her mother. She definitely did it for her mother. She said, now, mom, you are free. Amy breshas father, john meadows, reportedly made life for his family a living hell, routinely attacking his wife, breshas mother, by breaking her ribs, puncturing her blood vessels, blackening her eyes, and slashing her body. Meadows reportedly once punched his wife so hard that she heard her teeth crack. Later, she had to have those teeth removed. He also apparently slammed her head into the wall, stomped on her, and kicked her in the face. Jonathan meadows siblings have denied allegations of Domestic Violence. His brother told fox 8 news, this has nothing to do with abuse and his sister lena cooper called his death cold and calculated. He drank a little bit. He had ways he did things. But my brother i would literally say, he would have given his life. This was cold and calculated. My brother was murdered. It was cold and calculated. He was murdered in his sleep. There was no signs of abuse. Amy on tuesday morning, supporters and family members gathered for breshas first Pretrial Hearing. Over 6000 people have signed a petition calling on Trumbull County prosecutors to drop charges against the child. Bresha is being held in a juvenile Detention Center in warren, ohio, where she faces aggravated murder charges a charge that could carry a life sentence if shes tried and convicted in an adult court. Bresha just spent her 15th birthday behind bars. Well, for more, were joined now by three guests. In cleveland, ohio, were joined by martina latessa, Bresha Meadows aunt and a Cleveland Police officer in the Domestic Violence unit. Were also joined by ian friedman, a criminal defense attorney representing Bresha Meadows. He is an adjunct law professor at clevelandmarshall college of law. And here in new york city were joined by victoria law, a freelance journalist and author of, resistance behind bars the struggles of incarcerated women. Her recent article for rewire is headlined what Bresha Meadows, arrested for shooting her father after reported abuse, faces next. We welcome you all to democracy now victoria, lay out this story for us. When did this happen . How old was bresha . Talk about what has happened since. On july 28, Bresha Meadows, then 14 years old, so a child, was arrested for allegedly shooting her abusive father in the head with a gun that he had used to threaten his family numerous times. She had endured years and years of abuse according to breshas mother, it started when she was pregnant with her first child now 21 years old so she had endured decades of abuse. This was constant violence and eats and riddick rule ritual. She had run away twice. Her aunt reported the abuse to children as is. Nothing became of that. Her mother tried to leave once before and that even filed an order of protection. As many of your viewers may know, in situations involving Domestic Violence, it often takes somebody seven to 10 times to leave before they are able to successfully leave their abuser. As we have seen in many cases, leaving is often the most dangerous time for a survivor and her family to leave an abuser. Amy so than explain the night that bresha killed her father. Breshas father was sleeping. He had come home earlier that day. She went in to her room before the abuse from what i understand. When he went to sleep, nobody is sure, and i dont know if her lawyer can give more details or wants to get more details at this time she is still pretrial, he was sleeping and she shot him with the gun that he used to threaten his family. Again, if you put yourself in the shoes of a 14yearold, she saw this as a last resort. Nobody else was helping her. Not helping her, none of the adult and her life seemed to be able to help her and her family. Her ian friedman, youre criminal defense attorney. Can you talk about what happened in tuesdays Pretrial Hearing and how long has bresha now been held in prison, in jail . Take you for having me. More than that, thank you for finding this issue to be so important. As we talk about it, it really is such a tragedy. And what i have learned, even in the short time i have been involved, is just how widespread this sort of violence is out there. Im really glad were talking about it this morning. Yesterday at the pretrial about what we did was exchanged evidence. The defense, prosecution. We talk about where we are going with the case, potential resolutions. We set future dates. We are really just discussing the beginning of the procedure. Bresha has been in the detention of Detention Center since the night. She will remain in their until at least the next pretrial, which is october 6. At that time, we will revisit whether or not there is cause to have her released while the rest of the case remains pending. Amy how long has she been jailed . Over a month, since the night of the incident she has been in there. Amy martina latessa, you are breshas aunt. Can you talk about what you understood before that night . Understand there were mental abuse, physical abuse, psychological abuse, emotional abuse. The kids did not get hit. That was my sister brandi who got that, but the gets had to watch it, including bresha. He did cuss at them and call them names. From my understanding, bresha was not even allowed to be in the same room as her father once she ran away the second time. You would say, get out of here, you disgust me. My sister brandi was abused, pushed around and smacked and kicked while all of her children watched. It did take a toll on her. She did run away and she told me about it and she expressed great fear for herself and for her family. Amy i want to turn to your sister for a moment, to brandi meadows, who spoke to fox 8 cleveland. She called bresha her hero. Im sorry, bresha. You are my hero. She helped us all. She is my hero, our hero. And now we need to move forward and have a better life. Amy that is brandi meadows. Did you know about the abuse of your sister . I found out about it in 2011, so around five years ago. She did go back, and that is normal for victims of Domestic Violence to go back. She loved him and she wanted her family to be together. She has told me in conversations, he has told her, we are going to be better and she went back. That is normal for domestic andence victims to do experience. It is hard for people who dont understand Domestic Violence, who have never grown up in it, that is she is going to do that. I explained that to my mom and my family that it is normal, even though it is hard for us to understand. It is normal and Domestic Violence. Amy you are next for. You are police to take the who deals with Domestic Violence . Im not in a bird, but i am a detective in our Domestic Violence unit. I handle cases every day. I deal with victims every day. And advocates and prosecutors and judges every day. Amy have you seen a case like this before . No. In him a 17 years of being a police officer, i have never seen anything like this. Amy can you tell us a little bit about bresha . I they were so isolated that barely know them. I barely know my sister and her family. In 2011 when she ran away, we have seen them probably seven years before that, we saw them around christmas time when i went down there. They were so isolated, that i dont know them. But i do know the two times that bresha ran away and came to me, she was scared. She was asking me for help. She can with no coat. I remember i got her a jacket that she wanted. When she got home, her father took a from her and told her she couldnt have anything that came for me. When she ran away the second time, she did not have anything. We bought her stuff. When she was told she had to go back, she was terrified. She would not even take hair conditioner with her that i bought because she was afraid what her dad would do if you found out she had Something Like that. Amy did you know that at the time . Were you concerned . I was very concerned. I did not know, like the jacket incident and how he felt, until she ran away again just a couple of months ago. That is when i got a little bit more light on the situation. Was hitting her again. He put her up against the wall. They say choked he strangled her. He threatened to kill them. She said he bashed her head into a wall and please, help me, im afraid. I believe her. Familymeadows kept that in a box. I still say it. If it did not happen, my sister would have been in a box from a casket and the ground, if this incident did not happen. Amy is there anything you could do, not as her aunt, but a Cleveland Police detective specializing in Domestic Violence, when you found out what was happening to the family . I went down there the very first time she ran away in 2015. I got the phone call from the police, you know, bring her back. I talked to an officer and a female sergeant and let them know what is going on. I understand as a policeman, the victim is going to not cooperate , there is list nothing we can do. As a human, as her aunt, as my sisters sister, even as a police officer, there is no way i can knock on that door, go in that house, and do that. People dont understand she is a policeman. I cant. Well have gone in that backyard and dug my sisters grave. He did not like me. He did not like me because i was a policeman. He did not like police officers. I truly believe i could not go in there or i would make it worse, if not deadly, for her. Amy victoria, you wrote a piece about this. How did the system fail bresha . Summit he different ways. When her mother filed for an order of protection and i mean, there are no resources for Domestic Violence survivors and their families. Are battered women shelters and abuse hotlines, but there are no safe places to go, no counseling, you need Affordable Housing and ways for people to be able to get out and stay out. When her aunt called Child Services the second time bresha ran away, they did not do anything to make sure she was safe, that her family life was safe according to her aunt when they interviewed breshas parents, the interview them together, which meets her mothers not going to say there is abuse in the house. Amy they interviewed her mother and abuse are together . Yes, from what i understand. They did not separate them. To theurned bresha house. There are so many different ways in which the system could have intervened and done something before bree sharp, as a 14 euros, as a very scared 14yearold, felt she had to do what she did to protect her family. Can you talkdman, about the outpouring of support but also the fact that the fathers family, jonathan meadows family, denies that there was Domestic Violence . I will speak to the family first. It is not unusual when i stand before judges and im representing someone who really did murder someone, theres always family behind them saying , but he is a good person and please go easy on him. This does not surprise me at all. They are morning. They may not know the full story, in all fairness to them. But i think the evidence is going to be impossible to refute. At some point, theyre going to have to face it and accept it. As far as the outpouring of support, it has been coming literally from across the globe. My office has been flooded with mail and emails and calls from people that want her to know that she is being supported and prayed for. Gifts are being sent. Sayings of encouragement were sent to my office onrocks. The petition we received yesterday, now over 7000 people sho are calling for bresha release. It is incredible. The one area that has surprised me in the mail i have received is that i have received no less than probably a halfdozen letters from other people who were in similar sorts of situations, and some of them had to take the same sort of action against their spouses im sorry, against their parents. So when i first read the first one, i was shocked by it. I have gotten more and more. This is really touching people and having them kind of come out that, hey,her know youre not alone, i had to go to this also. As we started your program, that his wife felt it was so important to really not just with bresha, but to bring attention to the wider spread problems across this country. Amy on a semirelated issue, i want to ask you, victoria, about the piece you wrote in the. Ation this woman was sentenced to 20 years in prison, right around the time of Trayvon Martin. Now the prosecutor, said attorney in floridas fourth judicial circuit court, angela corey, was just if you did in yesterdays primary. Defeated in yesterdays primary. We see oftentimes, as we see hopefully, we do not see a breshas in the end, but as we see with many Domestic Violence survivors, when they take actions to protect themselves and all must always it is selfdefense coming even if it is not happening in the heat of the confrontation but they see something and their abusers eyes and they say this is it will stop if i dont do something, im going to end up dead, he is going to kill me. We see that prosecutors tend to go after them. Domestic violence is often dismissed as the abuse excuse. It is disregarded. Theyre still not widespread recognition of the ways insidious ways in which Domestic Violence works. They would say, why were you afraid of him if you are not being hit all the time . After a while, it is not just the physical violence, it is the threat of physical violence, it is being conditioned to fear your loved one and do what you need to do in order to avoid violence. We see with angela corey, charging worse alexander, prosecuting her, and adding at her discretion the mandatory sentencing that allowed her to be sentenced to 20 years in prison and then went Marissa Alexander won her appeal, going after her again and threatening her with a 60 year sentence for firing a warning shot in which no one was hurt and no one was killed and we see this again and again with the outpouring of support that marissa alexder got. Amy this is the same prosecutor in charge of george zimmerman, who got off. I want to thank you all for being with us. We will continue to follow breshas case. Victoria law, we will link to your pieces. Martina latessa, thank you for being with us, Cleveland Police effective in the Domestic Violence unit who is the aunt of bresha. Ian friedman come her criminal defense attorney. When we come back, speaking of primaries yesterday, we will look at the primary results in florida and in arizona and in other places with jim dean, head of democrats for america. Stay with us. [music break] amy god bless the child. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Republican senators john mccain of arizona and marco rubio of florida won closelywatched primaries yesterday after being challenged by a pair of republicans who had embraced donald trump. Mccain beat kelli ward, a doctor and former state senator. Rubio defeated millionaire developer carlos beruff. Rubio will now face democrat Patrick Murphy in november in what is expected to be one of the most Expensive Senate races this year. On murphy easily defeated tuesday, congressman alan grayson who lost several key endorsements after being accused by his exwife of Domestic Abuse. In other florida election news, democratic congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz defeated progressive challenger tim canova who was endorsed by senator Bernie Sanders. Shortly before midnight conova told reporters ill concede that Debbie Wasserman schultz is a corporate stooge. Last month, schultz resigned as chair of the Democratic National committee after wikileaks released nearly 20,000 emails revealing how the Democratic Party favored Hillary Clinton and worked behind the scenes to discredit and defeat sanders. Longtime democratic congresswoman Corrine Brown lost her primary. She was indicted last month on corruption charges along with her chief of staff. To talk more about tuesdays election results, we are joined by jim dean, the chair of democracy for america founded in 2004 by former president ial candidate and dnc chair governor howard dean. We welcome you to democracy now talk about the significance of the primaries, what you think was most significant about what happened yesterday. Amy, thank you for having me on this morning. You know, there are two to give again things. One of which is sort of the significance of the insignificance, and that we saw very low turnouts in both states. Note, ie constructive focus on a couple of things. One, the courageous campaign that tim canova ran, a campaign that helped lift some very important issues to the voters at large into the national consciousness, particularly in the transpacific partnership, corporate subsidy agreement that both president ial candidates are now against. And also calling attention to the issue of money in politics, which both democratic and Republican Voters are really fed up with as well as some of the private prison situations that covers woman Debbie Wasserman schultz had actually been supporting along with payday lending. He really ran a courageous campaign. He got over 40 of the vote, which is really unheard of in a district that she had locked down so much since 2004. So that was significant. I think the election of lummis a relative in Orange County juxtaposed against the discussion you were having about the prosecutor angela corey, a former prosecutor angela corey, i think is also indicative. She is a game changer and one whose own Life Experience certainly portends for a better Justice System, at least in Orange County, florida. Those are good news. Other candidates did not do so well. We were supporting a number of candidates in state legislative races. We are thrilled one of the great statesmen of the Florida Legislature Dwight Bullard won his primary, a party that does against a Party Government of a candidate who is basically a republican. What there is a long way to go here. Theres particularly a long way theo if you look at how senate race actually played out. The role of the state party and the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee in trying to grease the skids the amount of incredible resources they spent to get a person nominated who not only was recently a republican, but a person who voted against i theran were treated, i think voted for offshore oil drilling i think off the coast of florida, and voted for the benghazi panel. The democrats have a week nominee right now. Im not sure how much money is going to be spent there because i think pretty quickly it is going to be clear that this is not really a contrast tto marco rubio. It is always interesting and florida. The big thing we have to focus on right now, and this would go for arizona also, is trying to help folks take back this country. Get involved and go vote. Disinfectedlot of people out there. We need to focus on them. I think a lot of good things have happened in the last six months that will help us do that. But we have a shortterm issue and that is voter turnout. , it john mccain in arizona wasnt a very close race, but the issue is a very critical one. His opponent talking about him being too old, 80 years old, that suggesting he had alzheimers . I think that is a little below the belt. Listen, we support candidates who are young and candidates who are older. If they are young at heart, i am fine with that. A fantastic example of a statesman who is been around for a long time, and absolute fighter for what issues that the voters actually care about, not actually a corporate democrat. Although he is running against one. I think the voters are not tuned into that kind of thing. I dont think they buy an attack on a message that kelli ward had. I think you could say that no matter who she was running against, whether it was john mccain a comment or some other incumbent. Amy let me ask you about Debbie Wasserman schultz and tim canova. Tim canova known around the bernie because of sanders support for him and his major feud with Debbie Wasserman schultz over her preference for Hillary Clinton, and all proven by the 20,000 emails that wikileaks released. Bernie sanders has set up the new organization our revolution. How does our revolution compared to your democracy for america . Talk about the 501 c four, dark money versus pac. First, we a Political Action committee and always have been. They are going to support candidates there will be two or three of these organizations out of our revolution, and all include kennedy support. We have been doing some work with him on that because our real believe here is we need to have our revolution out there. Fromhave a great energy Bernies Campaign. I think they will be very, very effective. I am, frankly, an amer with the entrepreneurial spirit out there in politics. It is not just our revolution, amy. It is a number of networks. Theyre not even necessarily organizations that have grown out of Bernies Campaign. A lot of these folks are focused on justice issues, economic measures social, Racial Justice issues as well as political reform. I look at many of them as being the same place where black lives matter probably was when they were first starting out and now that they have grown into an effective force, we want more of this. Not less of it. This is not about an organization, it is about empowering people. The most the more folks are doing that, the better. I think our revolution is going to add a huge contribution for that. I really appreciate the candidates support they have gotten. They have certainly raised a ton ,f money Bernies Campaign raised money for tim canovas campaign, and help nationalize that race. Theres a lot more to go and i think a lot of positive contributions for them to make, and we sorely hope to be working with them as well as other organizations to do that. Amy jim dean, thank you for joining us, chair of democracy for america, founded in 2004 by former president ial candidate and dnc chair governor howard dean. When we come back, more with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Glenn Greenwald. Stay with us. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Were continuing our conversation with Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist, one of the founding editors of the intercept. In part we discussed the u. S. One, elections in the impeachment trial of Dilma Rousseff. Today, we bring you part 2 of our conversation. Glenn greenwald recently wrote an article titled, Hillary Clintons likely pentagon chief already advocating for more bombing and intervention. I asked him about the article and who Michele Flournoy is. She, by all accounts, is the clear front runner to be the pentagon chief under Hillary Clinton. She was probably the second place finisher the last time that president obama chose a Defense Department chief, when he chose ash carter. She is sort of this prototypical pentagon technocrat who is integrated into bipartisan military policy for a long time so very much along the lines of how Hillary Clinton views Foreign Policy and military policy. One of the most notable parts of clintons approach that has gotten little attention is that one of the few areas where she has been openly critical of president obama has been by complaining that he has been insufficiently militaristic or belligerent or aggressive in a number of areas, in particular in syria met where she criticized him in her book and also in various interviews for not doing enough in syria to stop the syrian dictator alassad from brutalizing the syrian people. She has advocated secretary clinton has a nofly zone which could lead to military confrontation with russia, who is flying over syria, and Michele Flournoy an interview made clear that she not only believes in a nofly zone, but also more active boots on the ground in syria, american boots on the ground. And given the russians are already there, that there is isis there, that there are al qaeda elements, there is still a civil war ongoing, it would be extremely dangerous to involve the u. S. Further and military involvement in syria and yet you president obama who himself has been very militaristic he has bombed seven predominately muslim countries and the last seven years and yet secretary clintons critique of his foreignpolicy is in every case he is not aggressive enough, not militaristic enough, and in syria in particular, they seem to really be itching to involve the u. S. A lot more directly and a lot more aggressively in that conflict. Amy how do you think Donald Trumps Foreign Policy would be carried out . It is always difficult to say what Donald Trumps policy would be because he is very few cogent ideas that remain constant from one day to the next. But if theres any ideological strain that is identifiable in trumps statements over the years, a dozen to be he comes from this kind of more nativist, isolationist strain of american politics represented by pat buchanan previously, by charles lindbergh, this America First ideology that says the u. S. Should never involve itself in military conflicts to nation build or to help people or to prevent oppression, you should only do so when there is a direct threat to the United States that needs to be in gauged. Trumps attitude has been along those lines in syria which is to say let the russians continue to bomb isis, let the russians view. Ue to bomb assads the only thing the u. S. Should be doing in syria he says is directly attacking isis where he wants even greater bombing than obama has a reordered. In one sense, he is calling for more limited involvement in syria by limiting the United States military action only to isis, letting the russians handle everything else. But on the other hand, he is calling for massive bombing, the use of torture, other forms of work runs and killing targeting suspect terror suspect family members in order to fight isis. It is very difficult to say whether it is more militaristic or less. It is probably a combination of both to the extent it can be predicted at all. Amy when it comes to russia i mean, you have this very. Nusual juxtaposition talk about the democrats approach, Hillary Clintons approach to putin, and also donald trump. His recently departed from the campaign at least Campaign Manager Paul Manafort, his close ties to ukraine and to the soviet out lie, former yana kovacic, in ukraine, who then fled to russia and whatever the not there what is financial dealings were with them, but talk about russia as it relates to u. S. Foreign policy. To me, this is one of the more remarkable things of this campaign, which is any of us that grew up in politics are came of age as an american in the 1960s or the 1970s or the 1980s or even the 1990s knows that central to american political discourse has always been trying to tie your political opponent to russia for demonizing the kremlin as the ultimate evil and then trying to insinuate that your political adversaries are somehow secretly sympathetic to or even controlled by russian leaders and kremlin operatives and russian intelligence agencies. This was not just the mccarthyism, which was the peak of it, but even long after. This is typically a republican tactic used against democrats. If democrats advocated greater detente with the russians, arms deals or other negotiations with tensions orcrease decrease conflict, republicans would immediately accuse those liberals and democrats of advocating that, of being either having allegiance to the kremlin or useful idiots or to just of ofsian leaders idiots russian leaders. Not only to accuse Paul Manafort who does have direct financial ties to certainly the former prorussian leader of the ukraine, but really anybody who in any way questioned the clinton campaign. They even try to doing it to jill stein a few weeks ago by claiming that she had done something nefarious by attending an event and moscow sponsored by the Russian Television outlet rt which is controlled by the putin government. It is this constant rhetorical tactic to try and insinuate that anyone opposing the clintons are somehow russian agents, when it is the clintons who actually have a lot of ties to russia as well. The Clinton Foundation and bill clinton helped, russian comedies take over uranium and histories in different parts of the world. He received lots of russian money for speeches. The Clinton Foundation has relationships to them. President obama refused to armed factions in the ukraine trying to fight against this progression dictator and continuously drive to partner with the russians in syria. This rhetoric can cut both ways. It is problematic, i think, to try and affect anyone who questions nato or who advocates detente with russia of somehow being disloyal or useful idiots or stooges to boot and given how dangerous that rhetoric traditionally has been in a mac and discourse. Amy and where wikileaks they send to this picture with russia and if you could also talk about Edward Snowden . Mean, what i just talked about in terms of this tactic of trying to depict political adversaries as being agents of russia, honestly from the beginning of this note and reporting that was used to try and demonize Edward Snowden by virtue of the fact that he ended up in russia were he sought and obtained asylum, even know he never intended to go through passingwas just through but got stuck because his passport was revoked. They forced him to stay and russia and use the fact he was in russia to depict him as somehow of a nefarious russian agent. They have done the same to wikileaks, especially since wikileaks disclosure seven damaging to the Democratic Party and the clinton campaign. It is amazing that wikileaks last disclosure resulted in the resignation of the top five officials of the Democratic National committee, including the dnc chair Debbie Wasserman schultz. Wikileaks has become an enemy of the Democratic Party and they seem to have one tactic with her adversaries and enemies, which is to accuse them of being russian enemies. Russian agents. That is being used against wikileaks now as well. A very disturbing strategy that is not justice disturbing in an of itself, but will have consequences and the likelihood that Hillary Clinton will win because when you constantly inflame the public by telling them that russia is this enemy, has agents operating in the u. S. , that is going to have lots of longterm implications and terms of how the u. S. Government treats russia, how the American Media and people will expect the u. S. Government to react to russia, and how much dissent and criticism is going to be allowed without people being accused of being agents of the kremlin. Amy what about donald trump and his admiration for putin and how you think he would deal with russia . Again, i think donald trump comes from this ideological tradition to the extent he has any cogent views at all. That says the United States should along with the world dictators, unless those dictators directly threaten the u. S. It is a little bit hard for me to take seriously, complaints that donald trump wants to get too close to putin who is a dictator or authoritarian when the closest allies in the world of the u. S. Government are themselves dictators and tyrants, beginning with the saudi regime and going throughout that region into lots of other regions as well. Cuddling up to dictators has long been and continues to be a central u. S. Policy. I do think that trumps admiration of putin is sort of personal and that trump personally admires what he regards as the sort of fascistic strength, this assertion of will, this ability to command and rule that does reflect very negatively and fact, alarmingly on trumps personality, the parts of his personality that result in admiration for putin. I think there are disturbing aspects of it, but the fact is, theres a lot of people who think the u. S. Should not be seeking out tension and conflict with russia. Ironically, the person who has probably done the most to reduce tension between the u. S. And russia is the person who currently occupies the white house, barack obama. I think it is important to leave space in american political debate to advocate for greater cooperation with russia without having your loyalties or sympathies called into question. Amy we mentioned in the first part of our conversation what is happening in israel and palestine. You write that clinton led democrats are now to the right of george w. Bush when it comes to palestinian rights. Explain what you mean. The fact that israel is illegally occupying the west bank is a consensus of international law. Not only is it a consensus of international law, but george bush himself, as steadfastly supportive of israel as he was, often said that israels occupation of the west bank was it legal. He used those terms. So to the Bush Administration. During the platform debates of 2016 within the Democratic Party when several sanders appointees led by cornell west and james zogby and others, i added attempt to insert link which into the platform that reflected his international consensus, namely that israel was occupying the west bank illegally in the u. S. Government opposes it. The clinton appointees on this platform committee, including the had of the transition and other witnesses and appointees, were opposed to that and objected to it and blocked the inclusion of that language. The current position apparently of the Democratic Party that you cant or should not use the term occupation to describe what israel is doing and the west bank, even know that is the international consensus, even of the Bush Administration itself was willing to embrace and use those terms. And that does place the Democratic Party unsurprisingly to the right of not just the international community, but even the Bush Administration when it comes to their blind, incredibly a moral support for the netanyahu government. Amy Glenn Greenwald, in your view of third parties. I mean, you talk about jill stein. Theres a whole debate over the debates, who gets to participate in the debates, which of course, it is a self fulfilling cycle because if you get in the debates, you get much more wellknown and you have a National Platform that is reviewed by millions of people. But what do you think about both johnson, the former governor of new mexico, and dr. Stein, the Green Party Candidate . Johnson, of course, liberty area and. Gary johnson. I think american political discourse would value greatly from the inclusion of both of them in the debates, which is exactly why the democrat or Republican Party will allow it. The big scam of the democrats and republicans is that they agree overwhelmingly by most issues. It does not seem like that is the case because that is the scam. Issues on which they agree, such as giving billions of dollars of taxpayer money to israel each year, are simply ignored. So you dont realize the issues on which they have agreement because those issues are ignored by Television Commentators and do not get debated. There are issues where they vehemently disagree, whether it be abortion or lgbt issues or the rate of taxation or health care, that do get attention. It seems like they disagree on everything because the only issues that get any attention are the ones they vehemently disagree. Allowing third parties and four Party Candidates into the debate who would then call into question u. S. Posture toward israel or the drug war or the kernel Justice System or a variety of other issues where both parties agree, including trade, would open up a range of issues that americans start questioning and start thinking about and start challenging that they never think about now because the two major parties agree. I have watched in brazil, for example, were there are all kinds of parties, eight or 10 parties or six parties participating in the election so you have far left and far right and center parties where all views getaired, and you can trackback to the u. S. Were a tiny range of issues get debated because only two sides are heard. That is the way both parties wanted. Amy Pulitzer Prizewinning , Glenn Greenwald. You can go to democracynow. Org where we talked about Bernie Sanders opposition to the coup in brazil, the Clinton Foundation, and the future of rio after the olympics. That does it for our broadcast. Happy birthday to hanny massoud. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the clod captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. 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