Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20140815

We will speak with a local pastor who was shot on wednesday by a rubber bullet. We will also speak with radley balko, author of, rise of the warrior cop the militarization of Americas Police forces. Then to ebola in west africa. 1000 thats . The World Health Organization says that number fastly underestimates the scale of the outbreak. The debate over using experimental drugs to help halt the epidemic. Was an agreement among the experts that the special circumstances of this Ebola Outbreak, it is ethical to author unregistered interventions as potential treatment or prevention. There are caveats. The panel said the criteria must always guide such prevention. We will speak with samestore journalistscience Laurie Garrett, Lawrence Gostin, and adia benton. All of that and more coming up. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Joined in a0 Cities National moment of silence thursday night to honor the memory of 18yearold Michael Brown. The unarmed africanamerican teenager was shot to death by police last saturday in ferguson, missouri. Protest continued in ferguson for sixth night with a more festive mood after missouris governor jay nixon put an africanamerican Highway Patrol captain named ron johnson in charge of security in the town of ferguson. Johnson marched with protesters and ordered the riot gear put away. Protest spread to los angeles, chicago, philadelphia, and st. Louis where Michael Browns family attended a vigil. To new orleans, houston and new york. Im amy in miami, eight activists were arrested after refusing to leave a federal justice building. To what islated happening across the country. Police departments have abused their power. It has happened in ferguson and here in miami just a year ago. Israel hernandez was an 18yearold graffiti artist who died a year ago last sunday after police shocked him with a taster. The death of Michael Brown has coincided with other Police Killings of unarmed africanamerican men. On tuesday in california, father of five died in custody after Sheriff Deputies repeatedly hit him with a taster. The San Bernardino county sheriffs departments as they stopped dante parker while he was riding his bicycle, after a resident reported a burglary attempt just one week earlier Police Fatally shot 22yearold John Crawford inside a walmart in beavercreek, ohio. Witnesses said crawford was holding a toy gun on sale at the store and was shot after failing to put it down. Human rights watch says the killing of John Crawford, Michael Brown, an error earner who was placed in an illegal chokehold by new york police raise serious human rights concerns. Speaking thursday, president obama said u. S. Efforts have helped thousands of yazidi minorities trapped on mount sinjar. Obama said humanitarian air drops would likely end but airstrikes will not. We broke the isil siege of mount sinjar and helped Vulnerable People reach safety and health saved many innocent lives. We will continued airstrikes to help and have increased military assistance to iraqi and Kurdish Forces fighting isil on the front lines , and perhaps most importantly, we are urging iraqis to come together to turn the tide against isil by seizing the enormous opportunity of forming a new inclusive government under the leadership of Prime Minister designate abadi. European Foreign Ministers are meeting in brussels to discuss a rhyming arche kurds arming iraqi kurds. Minister a maliki as agreed to step down, easing the political crisis in baghdad. U. S. Has blocked a shipment of hellfire missiles to israel and tightened its approval process for future deals. According to the wall street journal, the move came after officials at the white house and state department discovered the pentagon had supplied arms to israel without their approval. Just hours after israels shelling of the human school last month, the pentagon confirmed it had resupplied israeli ammunition. Diplomat told the wall street journal officials were blindsided by the deal, although an unnamed defense official said it was handled properly. Britain has said it is prepared to suspend some arms exports to israel if its assault on gaza resumes. A new fiveday ceasefire began thursday and appears to be holding. Israel is now facing an inquiry from a human panel over possible war crimes committed during the egypt gaza, which killed nearly 2000 palestinians, most of them civilians. 64 Israeli Soldiers and three civilians in israel were killed. On social media, palestinians have been posting messages of solidarity and advice on how to deal tear gas to protesters in ferguson, missouri. Amidst the ceasefire, five people were killed and several more wounded on went day as gazas bomb Disposal Team dismantled an israeli missile. The victims included two journalists with the associated press. Italian journalist simone camilli, who was killed, and a palestinian photographer from gaza who was fiercely injured. Ap president and ceo gary pruitt paid tribute to simone camilli. The first foreign journalists killed covering the gaza war. You worked with ap since 2005 and he was hired in rome. He is well known and highly regarded throughout ap and highly regarded throughout the entire european media. He brought a unique ability to personalize his stories and portray the human drama in them within a credible eye for detail. Ukrainian officials have began inspecting a russian aid convoy bound for rebel held cities in the east. Russia says the convoy contains humanitarian aid for areas under heavy assault by ukrainian forces. But ukraine says the convoy could be used as cover to sneak in military supplies to the prorussian rebels. Five Muslim Americans have filed a lawsuit in federal court accusing the u. S. Government of unjustly placing them on the terrorist watchlist. Sayslaintiff in the suit the federal official tried to pressure him into becoming a government informant in libya, using removal from the nofly list as an incentive. The intercept news site revealed last month the Obama Administration has expanded the watchlist system by approving broad guidelines over who can be targeted. Hundreds of thousands of watchlisted individuals are record isis having no ties to terrorist groups. Brazil socialist party is expected to name a new candidate previousdent after the candidate, eduardo campos, died in a plane crash wednesday. Campos had been running in third place behind resulting president Dilma Rousseff and her top challenger, aecio neves. His likely replacement is a former rubber tapper who fought the devastation of the amazon alongside chico mendes. Press freedom activists have delivered a petition with more than one hundred 25,000 signatures to the Justice Department in support of New York Times investigative journalist james rising. Sen0risen has risked possible prison time by refusing to divulge the source behind his expose on a failed cia operation to deliver faulty nuclear bomb blueprints to iran. Federal prosecutors believe the leak came from the alleged cia whistleblower jeffrey sterling. Risen thanked his supporters and said he is seeking to defend the rights of future journalists. Theres just no way to conduct aggressive investigative reporting without a reporters privilege of some kind, without confidential sources. And i dont believe you can have a democracy without aggressive investigative reporting and without freedom of the press. An iranian born mathematician has become the first woman to win maths highest honored. Stanford University Professor Maryam Mirzakhani said in a statement she hopes her winnings of the field medal will encourage other young female scientists and mathematicians. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with juan gonzalez. Erbi welcome to all our listes and viewers from around the country and around the world. Protests are continuing in ferguson, missouri over the death of Michael Brown, an unarmed africanamerican teenager who was shot by police on saturday. But the mood in the town has changed drastically for the past 24 hours. On wednesday night, ferguson looked like a warzone as police fired tear gas, stun grenades, and smoke bombs. Police arrested at least 10 people, including a st. Louis alderman and two journalists. Last night the mood was less tense after missouri governor jay nixon put an africanamerican Highway Patrol captain named ron johnson in charge of security in the town. Johnson marched with protesters and ordered the riot gear put away. I grew up here. This is currently my community and my home. Therefore, means a lot to me personally that we break the cycle of violence, lose attention, and build trust, showing the utmost respect for every direction with every citizen. When we talk about boots on the ground, my boots are going to be on the ground. I plan on walking to the quiktrip that has been called ground zero and meeting with the folks there myself tonight. The events in ferguson over the past week have sparked a National Debate over racial profiling and the militarization of local Police Forces. On thursday, president obama addressed the situation in ferguson but made no mention of race in his remarks. There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism for looting. Theres no excuse for police to use Excessive Force against peaceful protest or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their First Amendment rights. Here in the United States of america, the police should not be arresting journalists who are just tried to do their jobs. And report to the American People on what they see on the ground. Attorney general eric holder said what holder didnt not mention was the federal governments role in supplying local Police Forces with military grade equipment. The New York Times reports department of Homeland Security grant money paid for the 360,000 bearcat armored truck on patrol in ferguson. Most of the body armor worn by officers responding to the ferguson protests was also paid with by federal money. Residents of ferguson are still demanding answers on why police shot Michael Brown, the unarmed teenager, and why the Police Department has taken so long to release the officer involved. We dont want no private meetings going on. Were here to talk about what happened, and justice for black people around the world. We have to have 100,000 people come in theyre shooting us down like dogs, animals. They are killing us for no reason other than we are black sto. [indiscernible] our problem is not in afghanistan. Our problem is not in israel. Our problem is with white folk running america. Were joined by patricia bynes, democratic committeewoman of ferguson township who joined us thursday to describe the police state she saw on the streets there. She tweeted thursday that this seems like a completely different place. Also joined by the reverend renita lamkin, pastor of st. John africanamerican Episcopal Church in st. Louis, missouri. She was hit with a rubber bullet by police on wednesday during protests in ferguson. And joining us via democracy now video screen is radley balko, author of the book, rise of the warrior cop the militarization of Americas Police forces. He is also a blogger for the washington post. Welcome all of you to democracy now i want to begin with patricia bynes. What has changed in the last 24 hours in ferguson . Good morning, everybody. The change has been incredible. It feels like theres been a military occupation lifted off of the area. It is been a complete change in spirit. The same people who are out protesting and have been out in the streets it was like a party last night. Everyone was relaxed, smiling, happy for the most part. It was just amazing. It happened in the same place where we are running from tear gas and trying to dodge rubber bullets and smoke bombs the night before. Reverend renita lamkin, youre hit by rubber bullet. When did that happen . Can you describe the situation . It was wednesday night. Dispersee told us to or, whatever what happened. We did not disperse. So they sent out the tear gas. People ran. Then we gathered a little bit further back. They let us hang out there for a while, then told us to disperse again and we did not. They said disperse, or this will happen. Then they tear gassed. Some young guys did not want to go still. I was trying to get them to keep going. And in the rubber bullet came after the tear gas. Reverend brown, what is you feel you had to be out there with a crowd that night and what was your reaction to this extreme crackdown by police, basically, in military gear . Be out thereo because that is where the people are. You have to be where the people are. Thought it is too much. It incited people. Reverend, when we hear the rubber bullets among other things are used, some people might think, well, theyre not live will its. Explain exactly the impact this rubber bullet had on you. , they left a pretty good read mark and a pretty nasty stings. Nd it it is not comfortable. I dont recommend it. They hit you in the stomach . How close were the police to you . I dont know. Theye close enough werent close enough where i can actually see them through the fog. I dont know how close they were. It was pretty chaotic. Patricia bynes, the press conferences that were held yesterday, first by the governor who clearly was rebuking the local police and certainly is sending in state troopers to was over the situation, condemning the actions that occurred previously. And then of course, president obama, while measured and his tones, made it clear there were violations that appeared to have occurred of peoples right to protest and the right of journalists to cover events. The impact that had on you as you heard of those statements of the governor and by the president . Like ourto me, it felt concerns were being heard. I had several statewide elected officials call me personally and was asking, patricia, what is going on . I was able to tell them exactly what was going on and how i did not think things were going to get better if things continued at this route. It is good to know that it was being heard. The governor needed to do something. There needed to be a serious intervention here because the tactics used it was just too much. I am very glad the president obama did come out and Say Something because i think the images that the country saw or even the world saw what was going on here in the st. Louis area, were disturbing and could not be ignored anymore. This was just a physical manifestation of the hostility between the community at large and it seems like the police. It is not just the ferguson incident, but the issue of Police Harassment and Police Brutality and Police Tactics used on the community. Thursday, congressman john lewis, wellknown civil rights leader, appeared on msnbc and compared the Police Response in ferguson to what he experienced during the Civil Rights Movement when he and others were attacked by police during peaceful protests. Take me back to the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s. To have a city that the majority are africanamerican and only three africanamerican on the police force . Ward have a local Police Officer referring to the protesters as animals. To have people dressed in military garment and pointing rifles directly at the protesters, that is only going to incite people. So my own feeling is right now, is that president obama should use the authority of his office to declare martial law. Federalize the Missouri National guard to protect people as they protest. ,nd people should come together reasonable the community leaders, address what is happening. If we fail to act, the discontent will continue to burn the fires of discontent will continue to burn not only in missouri, but all across america. That was congressmember john lewis. Radley balko is the author of the book, rise of the warrior cop the militarization of Americas Police forces. He also blogs for the washington post. Talk about the level of militarization of this Police Department, what you saw as he watched the police for the first days of the protests. I think what we saw was the manifestation of what is been going on for 30 to 35 years. It seems particularly bad in ferguson, but a lot of what we a st. Louisson was county Police Department sending in their swat teams and tactical teams for what i guess that would call preserve order in ferguson. This has been happening since the early 1980s. The transfer from the pentagon of surplus military equipment began early in the Reagan Administration in formally and formalized by congress in the 1990s. We have literally had millions of pieces of equipment from the military exchange this way. After september 11, the department of Homeland Security started sending out checks to buy new military grade equipment from companies that have now sprung up to build that equipment. This is what were seeing in not a local issue, really. This has been driven by national policies, policies that congress has approved of and has oversight of and they could and tomorrow if they wanted to. Radley balko, i was struck not only by the assault weapons and the armored vehicles, but even by the officers changing their uniforms into military fatigues, as if they were going to war rather than they were actually policing largely angry peaceful protests. There was some looting and some rockthrowing and possible molotov cocktails, but it really was not on a major scale from everything i could tell. Yet they were loaded for war. Right, and i think the obvious problems when we see the weapons the uniforms matter. When Police Officers are wearing camouflage, this is a very clear message to the community that theyre supposed to be serving and also affects the mindset of the Police Officer himself. That when we take domestic Police Officers and train them like soldiers and give the military year and dress them up like soldiers and tell them theyre fighting a war either a war on crime our war on terror theyre going to start to see themselves as soldiers. That is just a mindset that really isnt appropriate for domestic releasing. I think you saw that in the way they responded to protest not just in ferguson, but a lot of the crackdown on the occupy of thes, the crackdown political conventions over the years. I mean, this has become our default response to protests in the u. S. And it is something that can be very antagonistic for the very idea of free speech and the First Amendment. Talk about this bearcat armored personnel carrier and what it means and snipers on top with guns. Ive written a lot about the bearcats. This is one of the new pieces of equipment that we have because [indiscernible] ago, a wrote about a town in New Hampshire that sort of prebuilt against this. There are countless was going to buy bearcat with one of these grants and what was fascinating, interviewed somebody from the company and asked about it and said, this is all overblown, bearcat shows up on the scene and it is most likely to be filled with crisis negotiators and psychiatrist than with military ilitch arrest cops. Lncound a video that le since to market the bearcat. Camouflageclad Police Officers piled into the bearcat. They get out and start shooting things. At one point they poke a hole into a building and inject tear gas. It was all set to a c d. C. Thunderstruck. This was all about militarism. This was about conflict and aggression. That is how they market this piece of equipment to Police Departments and i think it says a lot. On thursday, james kirby defended the pentagons program of providing surplus equipment to domestic Police Forces. There is a Law Enforcement support program that the Defense Department and ministers which provides to Law Enforcement agencies around the country surplus military equipment, gear on arms, ammunition, vehicles. This is a useful program that allows for the reuse of military equipment that otherwise would be disposed of that can be used by Law Enforcement agencies to serve their citizens. Radley balko, your response . Government oris a federal agency whose motto is from war fighter to crimefighter. Petraeus themotto misunderstanding the role of Police Officers and soldiers. These are two very different jobs. The soldiers job is to annihilate a foreign enemy come and kill people and break things. These officers job is to keep the peace and protect our constitutional rights. This agency really reveals the motto from the start, when he doesnt appreciate that difference, doesnt recognize it, this is that that was designed for use in battle. It was designed for use to kill a foreign enemy, annihilate a foreign enemy. When it is being used on american streets the land mine resistant vehicles the pentagon has been giving away since the iraq and afghanistan wars wound down, the army last year put of newsletter cautioning against using them on domestic military bases because they said they roll over easily, tear up the roads, and there just isnt much use for them appropriately on domestic military bases. How is it they are inappropriate for domestic military bases but perfectly appropriate for or useeam main street in places like ferguson although, im not sure they have one. But theyre being used in towns like that all over the country. Mrap from a mine resistant image protected vehicles. I went to put a question to patricia bynes. The issue of the police force. While you may have more peaceful response to the peaceful protesters, you still have the issue of what happened to Michael Brown also overwhelmingly white police force in ferguson. A number of the people there may have, those please, then veterans of wars, perhaps occupied foreign lands and now in an overwhelmingly Africanamerican Community with their military equipment. What about these longerterm issues . Yesterday i know, was speaking because i have been out there every single day, what i did say was, i see things that i understand how the escalation happened. Where car an incident came flying down the street and almost plowed through a line of Police Officers. The car stopped maybe a foot and a half away from where the Police Officers were. Ive seen st. Louis county shown extreme amount of resistance when it comes to dealing with this issue. So i have seen how the escalation happened. But ive also talked of the officers. Once the car incident happened, i noticed they brought out the armored trucks in order to protect themselves and holding what was the line at the time. One officer told me, maam, we back here. Le of people in war will drive a car or truck through the line. Crv have people who have been at war so you already have people who have been at war serving in our committee. We have to keep Public Safety also the officer safety. We need of a serious conversation here about Police Tactics and police strategy. We need to take the best practices that we are currently seeing that are playing out in how to deescalate the situation. Reverend renita lamkin, weve just gotten word that the police will be releasing the name of the officer involved in the shooting at 8 00 a. M. 9 00 a. M. East coast time. Could you respond to that and how that might help also to begin defusing the situation that is been building up over the past week . People want to be heard. They want answers. All they can hear on the street is, tell us his name. Why dont you release the names of the criminals why do release the names of the criminals they cant show this persons name or face . I think it will bring a lot of healing to the community to just have a name. The issue of human life and the value of human life is what the issue is. When people are not even en answers, it dehumanizes them and he humanizes us. So i think it will go a long way to bring healing to the community. I want to thank you all for being with us, reverend renita brown, hit by a rubber bullet a few nights ago. Patricia bynes from ferguson county and radley balko, author of the book, rise of the warrior cop the militarization of Americas Police forces. When we come back, we look at the whole crisis of ebola. Stay with us. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with juan gonzalez. The World Health Organization is now seen the number of reported cases and deaths of ebola in west africa vastly underestimates the scale of the outbreak. The official death toll from the 69ola outbreak is now at 10 since february. Guinea has become the fourth country to declare National Health emergency as it battles the spread of the deadly ebola virus in the worst outbreak since the disease was discovered in 1976. The outbreak again in guinea people and guild 377 since spread to liberia, sierra leone, and nigeria i met which of all declared a National Health emergency. Hawks last week the World Health Organization said the unprecedented outbreak of the ebola virus was a National Public health emergency. The flulike symptoms can lead to external hemorrhaging and internal bleeding which can lead to organ failure. The disease is highly infectious and can kill up to 90 of those afflicted. Patients have a better chance of survival if they receive early treatment. There is no cure, but the first consignment of the experimental drug zmapp has arrived from the u. S. The World Health Organization has approved the distribution of unproven drugs to help address the Ebola Outbreak will stop World Health Organization assistant director general said the decision was made to despite despite tests that failed to prove the drugs are safe and effective. A range of potential effect asset to control the ebola virus. Theser, while several of treatments have been proven to be very effective in nonhuman findings and i mean [indiscernible] ine have undergone the tests humans necessary for licensing as proven safe and effective treatments. That does not mean they are not safe. It simply means we do not have evidence from human studies to safet is certain they are and efficacious. That was the who assistant director general. The outbreak has sparked an interNational Debate over the ethics of giving such untested drugs to the sick and deciding who should get the drugs. To talk about implications of the crisis, were joined by Laurie Garrett, senior fellow for Global Health at the council on foreign elections. She won a Pulitzer Prize in 1996 for her coverage of an Ebola Outbreak in what was then zaire. Shes the author of two best selling book, the coming plague newly emerging diseases in a world out of balance and betrayal of trust the collapse of Global Public health. And washington, d c, were joined by Lawrence Gostin, University Professor and faculty director at the Oneill Institute for national and Global Health law at georgetown university. Providence, rhode island, were joined by adia benton, a medical anthropologist at brown university. She has conducted research on Infectious Disease in sierra leone over several years. We welcome you all. Laurie garrett, explain what ebola is an in talk about what you think we should understand about it. It is a virus that infects your mining of blood cells and capillaries, puncturing microscopic leaks. You begin to lose the fluids from your circulatory system into her body as a whole. Your eyes, nose, mouth every orifice of the body. Those fluids are filled with virus. Anyone who touches those fluids and the touches their eye were robes their nose will become infected. Some of the numbers being tossed around are mired you say 90 mortality rate. These are gross exaggerations. But it is a truly horrible disease. In only one outbreak of the death toll reached 90 and that was 1976. I was in the 1995 outbreak, which until now, was the largest. The current one is more than three times larger. The death toll was closer to 70 . But my goodness, when you see an average flu in circulation and you think it is bad, your under 1 mortality rate, to put that in comparison. And the response, the worldwide response to this outbreak . How do you assess how that has gone so far . Outrageous. Outrageous. I have been stunned and flabbergasted since march when this was first reported from gu inea. I concur completely with the statements made by doctors without borders. They have consistently said, we are the only ones out here. Help. Hello, everybody, there is an ebola of the demo going on. Hello, it is spreading across the border. What are you all waiting for . I have a piece right now and foreignpolicy that begins, world, you just dont get it. The scale of what we need to be doing versus what we are doing is lock skill differential. All Health Care Workers are burned out. Put this in perspective. Before we had an epidemic, these three countries at thrift a worse Health Care Systems on the planet and the poorest people on the planet. Not one of those governments was paying more than 100 per capita annually on all forms of health. Which in this country, keep the house. In keep the house stocked aspirin and ibuprofen. Physiciansof the were foreigners. Ebola struck. A lot of those foreigners left town. There down now to 50 physicians to deal with everything. As the ebola crisis gets worse, cardiac patients are going untreated. Women are delivering without assistance. You have automobile accidents with peoples legs cut off and nobody will accept them into an emergency room. It is so much bigger than people realize and the people except. What we need is hundreds of Health Care Workers in these countries immediately. Hundreds. Were getting dribs and drabs. I know you have a lot of motivated viewers and listeners. We dont need the dogooder who has never been out in a crisis before. Volunteer,nice to but youre not necessary. We need people who have history of working under great trauma, who know how to work in the tropical heat, who know how to maintain personal infectious control, and are prepared to deal with some psychologically devastating things. Talks and the implication of the disease spreading into nigeria . Important. Ably lets be cautious. At this moment, we have no evidence of secondary transmission, so everybody that has been proven to have ebola in nigeria. It directly from this one fellow, patrick sawyer, a library and businessman who flew for meeting to lagos and contaminated people who are part of his entourage and the medical providers who care for him. Liberianamerican . Liberianamerican. However, one of the nurses under quarantine for fled quarantine a couple of days ago and went to another city and now more than 120 people of her contacts are under observation. In addition, at least two of the individuals, one his escort and the other a physician, have died from ebola in lagos. The concern is if he gets beyond that circle. You cannot ask for more chaotic , nigeria. Lagos anyone who has ever been there knows theres been such thing as a street map for most of the city. Finding who might have infected who . Oh, my goodness. And on top of it, they have a civil war in a National Doctors strike in a National Election and yes, boko haram. , you have been in sierra leone over the years conducting research on Infectious Disease there. Your medical anthropologist at brown university. Can you share your view on what should be done and how we are looking at this issue . I absolutely agree with Laurie Garretts concerns. We certain we need more Health Workers on the ground. We need much more protective gear. Many Health Workers ive been watching on twitter are curious about how theyre going to continue to do their work or be protected if theyre heading to the front lines. I dont want to underestimate the importance and significance of this disease in this outbreak. And this outbreak i have worried about being an alarmist but also being able to sound the alarm. We have to also keep in mind that we dont want people to panic. We want people to do the jobs that need to be done, which is to have an influx of Health Workers who can actually do the job who understand how to work nine outbreak situation and know how to do in infection control. I do have some friends at the cdc who have been deployed and it will be helping coordinating data efforts, but i havent heard from nearly as many of my medical friends during the same. I think this is something that is really fundamentally important. Before this outbreak, the Health System was woefully inadequate. It was always perceived to be a place where you go either when you are sears lycee or it may be seriously sick or if youre not sure if youre going to live or die. So for this disease or outbreak to have overwhelmed the Health System, i think has been a serious problem for everyone. I think there are also significant right now i think theyre cordoning off a district , the hardest hit in sierra leone. That is causing all kinds of other economic and health and political problems. Those are things we should also be concerned with because that is ultimately going to affect how people on the ground are responding to this outbreak. I would like to ask Lawrence Gostin of georgetown, this whole issue of quarantine and especially large communities has created quite a bit of controversy on the ground there as well. Could you talk about that . We specialize in trying to look at quarantine efforts. Theyve tried to use basically a very large guarded area. Theyve used a must a medieval form of quarantine with soldiers, blockades, people who are in the quarantine area are very frightened and i think deservedly so. Theyre frightened not only because they are in a hot spot, a hot zone of ebola, but also with roads blocked, food is expensive and getting scarce. There are no medical supplies. Met. Needs are not being way of a really inhumane trying to do that. We never should have come to this. Disease that is a an be contained if you have strong Health System, but provided no International Assistance of the level and sustainability that is needed to build Health Systems in the worlds poorest countries. And this is what happens. And now we have these large quarantine areas. If we did want to do a quarantine, we have to do a small quarantine, a modern quarantine where we provide humane care and give people incentives to stay where they are. Psychosocial support, education, nutritious food, medical care and not policed by armed soldiers. The militarization of the disease is usually what works. It just causes a lot of fear and panic. Im going to have to very much disagree with him on this. Larry, i dont think youre right. Heres why. First of all, i was in the epidemic in 1995 and we did do a court own docordone. The brutal dictator at the time summarily cut the whole region off with soldiers, surrounding and blocking the highway. No airplanes, etc. The people were stranded, terrified exactly as there is describing. Within that district that was enclosed off with about 5000 people. Individual Isolation Centers were also set up. The red cross removed every single ailing person from the families, regardless of objections, which often became violent. Workersthe red cross contracted ebola as a result of those altercations. They would bring them into quarantine hospital facilities. We have no other tool. We dont have anything else. My real problem is, first of all, i agree with larry, we waited lat way too long and nowt is draconian. Now what is happening, because the rest of africa does not believe that sierra leone, guinea, and liberia are behaving in a competent fashion and doesnt trust they can stop the epidemic, essentially, a de facto off all three countries. Thereve lost all their trade. Their trade is landlocked, pretty much. No more airplanes landing going on anywhere in the world. The failure to use the tool should you gently early in the strategically early in the limit, and the attack against providers by angry mobs, yes, yet have the military come in. You cant ask msf to keep risking their lives there are ready risking their lives to be in front of a virus. Now youre asking them to put up with people who come in with machetes and guns and try to kill them . No. They need military protection. We will come back to this discussion after break. Laurie garrett is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for reporting on the Ebola Outbreak in a democratic republic were also joined by georgetown University Professor Lawrence Gostin as well as round medical anthropologist adia benton. Stay with us. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with juan gonzalez. ,ur guest are adia benton Laurie Garrett, and professor Lawrence Gostin who also works with the World Health Organization. Professor, you wanted to respond to Laurie Garrett. Cordone,t against the but i talk to the cdc and the who and i think theres wide agreement needs to be smarter. Have a Health Crisis turning to a human rights crisis. You have to provide food. You have to provide medical care. You have to provide psychosocial support. And you need to provide secure, but also save and sterile isolation equipment with personal protection equipment. Smartat is with the senator is. I dont see it on the ground in those three countries. I want to ask about another question that has come up, the ahical issue of administering drug that has really not been fully tested now and administering it to the populations there in africa as the United States is trying to rapidly manufacture this drug. What are some of the ethical questions that it raises for you . Well, so we dont actually know the efficacy of the drugs. That is the first thing. But we also are not sure how much there is in how the system is going to be somehow those drugs are going to be disseminated or distributed. I think is the other to get have alluded, there is the suspicion and mistrust of certain kinds of intervention. I think this is applicable to these questions the court owning as well. You really have to understand the local context, understand what the history of the extermination is, with the history of intervention is before you can roll these things out. One has suggested it might be the perfect opportunity to actually test the efficacy of this drugs because not everyone can get them. So the ethical thing is, if you do something if you administer the drug and people died, that looks at. If you dont give the people and it offers a promise and a hope, it also looks bad. That is something people are dealing with right now when youre thinking about the ethical consideration. The New York Times had an interesting piece about a doctor in sierra leone dealing with ebola are considered a national they were ebola weighing whether to give him the zmapp drug, the very drug that may well have just saved these two American Workers who are now at emory. The description in the article of the doctors speaking to the night, should they give a team him, what if you were to drive a died of a drug that they gave him. They decided not to and then he died two days later. In the optics of the two white doctors that were given to him. First of all, we dont know if this drug works. One individual receive drugs is up and walking around. Another, as far as i know, still and looked worried. That one could of been the lucky 30 survivors. Theres no reason to believe the drug necessarily priests true the spanish nodded and died. And died. The secondbiggest concern, zmapp, and to other drugs and three vaccines that are rushing through processes of the moment, this drug is made in a process that requires a be in a cold chain all the time until the moment of delivery to the patient. That means yet have refrigeration every step of the way, temperature control. It is a very unstable biological formulation. This isnt a pill. This isnt a simple sera were chemical. This means you could have a break in your cold chain and actually do harm to someone. And i worry because as your guest was saying, this is the region that had the most brutal civil wars back to back that we have seen in modern time. Where child soldiers were deployed to cut off the arms and legs of their own relatives. Where the term blood diamonds originated. Charles taylor, the former leader of liberia, is one of the few truly convicted were criminals work runnels now serving time for the horrors he carried out. When you hear that people say you cant go to the hospital because they cut off legs there were dont go to the hospital because the white people are cannibals, or dont go to the hospital because they will inject you with something that will kill you, these are valid rumors to people. They believe it because they have had a history where all those things actually happened. And everybody has reason to has evilt amys family spirits to conjure against my family because one of my relatives killed one of her relatives just 10 years ago. As a result, the idea that you are going to walk in with a worseous unknown drug or yet, vaccine, and tell people that dont understand germ theory, 50 of whom are illiterate, this is experimental and we are not sure if it will work. Just because im injecting it into you doesnt mean youre protected. How many are going to run back and they, theyre giving us the disease, injecting the disease and the hospital . We havent even begun to scratch the surface of all of the possible ramifications. Professor, your response . What people want care. Perfect kinds the of person to give informed consent. People are sick from and nurses, doctors who can give informed consent. I dont want to underestimate the significance of the war in this, but there are other kinds of things that happened during the war and before the war that engender this kind of mistrust. So people may be illiterate, but there are also people that wish their Health Care Systems were better and could deliver the level of care that might actually get them through this aint. Had a health, they system that was broken before the war and during it and after it of this is why i say, this is why especially when youre talking about quarantine you have to understand the local context, you have to understand or meet people where they are. There are people who can say, we dont know if this thing works. There are people that dont work all the time they go to traditional healers, but theyre looking for something that is efficacious and will make them better. This is another piece of the puzzle that absolutely has to be addressed. You have to provide them with the best care possible. Professor Lawrence Gostin, the last word on this issue today . I think it is true human beings all have a yearning to be cared for wherever they are and whatever their experiences are. The optics of this was really went touse it potentially three white foreign aid workers. For me, i wouldve had ethical criteria in place. Toould have given preference african Health Workers. I would have gone with consent. And most of all, i would have asked the people involved in the national leaders. This wasnt done transparently. It was behind closed doors. We need to get this out in the open and we need to involve communities at risk. This is the discussion we will send you continue to have. Professor Lawrence Gostin, journalist Laurie Garrett and brown University Professor adia benton, thanks for much for being with us. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now ] today on George Hirsch lifestyle, i visit a producer of farmstead artisanal cheeses made from mecoxs winning breed of jersey cows. Then i chat and sip with 3 Highschool Friends that returned back to their hometown roots and tapped into the American Dream of opening their own business. In my home kitchen, i whip up hearty white bean casserole, goodforyou honey grilled acorn squash, double grilled stuffed potatoes, and a new spin on an indoor favorite, grilled meatloaf wrapped in bacon with mushroom gravy. Hi. Im George Hirsch. Welcome to George Hirsch lifestyle