Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20140730

Siegman, the former head of the American Jewish congress and the Synagogue Council of america. You might be surprised about what he says about the crisis in gaza. Everyone thinks that this is what is necessary for israel to , that the zionist dream is based on the repeated on theer of innocents scale of what we are watching today on television, that is a profound crisis, should be a profound crisis, and the thinking of all of us who are committed to the establishment of the state into its success. All that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Dozens of Palestinian Civilians have been killed in the most intense 48hour bombardment of gaza so far. At least 50 palestinians have died over the past day bringing the death toll from israels assault to over 1250 people. Earlier today two bombs hit a school in the jabaliya refugee camp used by the United Nations. People were reportedly killed including a medic and infant. Scores were injured. The u. N. Has accused israel of bombing the school. It marks the six time that a u. N. Shelter has been attacked since israel launched its offensive. Last week, 16 people were killed and over 150 were wounded. Other bombings today reportedly killed Seven Members of one family and and or of another. Shellsday, israeli tank killed 13 people. The majority of the victims were women said someone at the scene. Rockets started falling on our houses. There is no one from the Resistance Group or anything. Rockets fell on the buildings next door and one rocket fell here. As soon as that happened, we came running, open the door, and we saw people torn apart, severed heads, blood and limbs, most of them women. Also tuesday, most of gazas already limited Electricity Supply was cut off after a tank hit the strips only power plant. Threatensor says it hospitals in gaza. Power is expected to go out completely because the quantities we have will not suffice for a few days which threatens various departments, especially intensive care units, dialysis, pediatrics, and surgery. Israel has announced a fourour palming pause in the bombing to allow humanitarian relief. Protests around Gaza Continue in the united dates. In new york city, a group of demonstrators blocked traffic by laying down in the streets outside of the Israeli Mission to the United Nations. 26 people were arrested after refusing to disperse. I have been sitting in front of my computer for the past 21 days morning and night watching the horror unfold and i felt i was not doing enough, i was not rising to the occasion, was not acting commensurate to the horror, so i decided it was time to do something more, time to go past the computer and remove myself from the computer and get arrested. Comes one day after nine peace activists were arrested protesting the israeli assault outside of the office of the conference of president s of major jewish organizations. The group is calling themselves if not now, when . In seattle, washington, protesters held a diein outside of the headquarters of bowling. A new round of sanctions has been brought upon russia. Ineiling the measures washington, president obama said it would target the economy but projects claims of a new cold war. If russia continues on its current path, the cost will continue to grow. Today is a reminder that the United States means what it says. We will rally the International Community in standing up for the rights and freedom of people around the world. Today, building on the measures we announced the below mexico, the United States is imposing new sanctions in key sectors of the russian economy. Energy, arms, and finance. It is not a new cold war. Issuet is is a specific related to russias unwillingness to recognize that ukraine can chart its own path. The European Union is also approving sanctions on russia, banning the import and export of weapons. The plan carves out an exception for france, allowing it to complete a deal for two Amphibious Assault ships. The sanctions followed this month downing of the malaysian flight 17 which killed all 298 passengers aboard. International investigators remain unable to reach the crash site amidst heavy fighting between the ukraine government and the rebels. The ukraine government said it seized a key town in the outskirts of donetsk. Court hasappeals saved mississippis lone Abortion Clinic from closure. A threejudge panel ruled 21 against a state law that would have forced all providers to attain admitting privileges at a local hospital. None of the providers have been able to provide the necessary permits because they provide elective abortions. The law would have forced women to drive hundreds of miles out of state to obtain an abortion. Fast food workers have won a major ruling that could improve their workplace conditions, wages, and intend to unionize. The general counsel of the nlrb says that they may must take responsibility for their workers. 90 of Mcdonalds Restaurants are franchised. Hasics say that arrangement helped the Parent Company protect itself from worker initiatives such as lawsuits and unionization drives. A has also helped to deflect movement for a 15 minimum wage with mcdonalds arguing that franchisees set up the workers pay. In todays ruling, the nlrb says mcdonalds qualifies as a joint. Mployer the ruling comes days after hundreds of fast food workers from around the country gathered in illinois for an organizing forerence on their campaign a 15 an hour minimum wage. Those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. I am nermeen shaikh. Welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and world. 50 more palestinians have died over the past 24 hours in gaza as the Israeli Offensive enters its 23rd day. Tos brings the death toll over 1250. Today, two shells hit a school in the jabaliya refugee camp used by the United Nations to shelter palestinians seeking safety from the fighting. The u. N. Accused israel of shelling the schools. Reuters reports that 20 palestinians died including a medic and an infant. 27yearold abdelkarim almasamha said that he and his family had come after fleeing fighting from their home in the northern gaza strip. Murdered before our eyes, they were dismembered. Five people, including a woman, were killed in the classroom. We came from the targeted areas because they were not safe. There are no safe rooms in gaza. More than 3000 people were taking refuge at the school at the time of the shelling. It marked the sixth time that a u. N. Shelter has been jailed since the beginning of the offensive. More than a 10th of the population in gaza have sought shelter in 80 schools. We go now to sharif abdel kouddous. He has just returned from the u. N. Shelter that was shelled earlier this morning. What did you see . The assault on gaza by israel is always heavier at night. They continued in the day but the heaviest assaults, that dark. Come at dark. Tellke up to hear people their stories and to see them very the dead. The people were killed while they slept. Many had come from border areas, israelsheeded warnings, some saw the leaflets, some came after their homes were destroyed, and they thought they would be safe in a United Nations run school. They were wrong. Speaking to multiple eyewitnesses, they said after a. M. Thet 4 30 shelling started. These schools were incredibly packed, as you mentioned. Over 240,000 are displaced in gaza. Well over 10 of the population. Those are counting numbers not only in humans. Also in other areas. These classrooms are incredibly packed. 60 to 100 people packed in the classrooms. The shells started raining down on the school. The displaced people of their said they did not hear any fighting around the area prior to the attack. The ones who were awake i just finished prayer. They spoke of seeing people with their legs blown off, arms blown off, someone had their head smashed in. At least 15 people have been killed according to the Health Ministry. Officials at the hospital nearby said that 20 people had been killed at least and at least one child. Many of these people come with nothing, usually just the clothes on their back. A lot of them are poor income with donkey carts. Outside of the school, a lot of them have been killed. There are dead animals outside of the school as a result of the shelling. As you mentioned, the United Nations had given the coordinates of the school to the Israeli Military, according to the spokesperson, at least 17 times. Now people do not know where to go. When you speak to the survivors, they do not know whether to stay at the schools. At least six have been targeted since the conflict began. They do not know where to go. Many of them do not have relatives to go to because entire neighborhoods have been displaced, so its a very dire situation. This comes after 48 hours of the heaviest air and artillery bombardment on gaza and said threeweek war began. Ite now crossed into is a longer conflict than the gaza whichere on left 1300 dead. The Health Ministry says 67 people at least have been killed today alone and hundreds more wounded. We are supposed to be in a fourour humanitarian ceasefire which began a few hours minutes ago. The bombing seems to have subsided but as you can hear, the drones are always overhead. Apparently, hamas, fog, and others are set to meet in cairo today. Could you talk about that, in regards to a possible ceasefire . There have been ongoing negotiations for a possible ceasefire. Hamas has continued to stick by its main demand which is a lifting of the crippling siege of gaza, a lifting of the blockade. The head of the hamas military wing, a man that has not been seen for many years, issued an audio recording last night on outlet. V he says that they would not and the hostility until the end of the blockade. They then showed a video purporting to show a raid by militants into israel, attacking an army command post, killing a soldier and confiscating one of the assault rifles from the soldier. This was broadcast on tv repeatedly yesterday. We will have to see where negotiations go but a main demand is the lifting of the blockade and israel seems to continue to shift its objectives in the conflict. When it first began, they said et. Y would have quiet for quit they said their objective was to clear the tunnel, it would take three days. That was more than 10 days ago. Now they say they will not stop, are demanding for the complete disarmament of hamas. It is a war in search of a political objective. In the meantime, civilians are continuing to die. They are the greatest victims of this assault on gaza. The power plant getting struck again . Yesterday, the power plant was hit, Officials Say it will take up to a year to repair. Its applied over 30 power to the gaza strip which is already suffering shortages. Many people have gone from having three hours of electricity a day to zero. Is crucial to powering the water ponds in gaza and there is a severe water crisis as well. Prices are going up for basic goods. There are long lines outside of bakeries for brad. It is a growing humanitarian crisis and there is no end in sight. Theinally the issue of jabaliya school that was shelled. Was there a refugee camp around it as well . Jabaliya itself is a refugee camp, from decades ago. There are concrete structures and so on but it is one of the most densely Populated Areas of gaza, heavily bombarded last night. There were warnings for residents to leave the area, and again, 44 of gaza has been declared a military buffer zone. Already one of the most densely Populated Areas on earth and people are being displaced in massive numbers into an increasingly smaller area. The places they are being displaced to are not even safe. When they leave and go to you and schools, areas where they think they are safe on the they are bombed. Becoming a very difficult situation for hundreds of thousands of how the standings in gaza. Thank you for being with us, please be safe. Back, Henry Siegman , the former head of the American Jewish congress. Stay with us. [ ] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. We continue our coverage of the Israeli Offensive in gaza. We spend the rest of the hour with Henry Siegman. Long described as one of the nations big three organizations along with the American Jewish committee and the antidefamation league. Henry siegman was born in 1930 in frankfurt, germany. Troops ining nazi belgium, his family eventually moved to the united eight. His father was a leader of the european Zionist Movement. In new york, he studied and was ordained as an orthodox rabbi. Head of the Synagogue Council of america. After his time at the American Jewish congress, siegman became a fellow at the council of foreign relations. He now serves as president of the middle east project. He has becomears, a critic of israels policies in the territories and has urged talks with hamas. He recently wrote a piece for politico headlined israel provoked this war. We sat down with him on tuesday and i started by asking if he could characterize the situation in gaza at the moment. It is disastrous. Disastrous, both in political terms, which is to say the situation cannot conceivably , certainly in the short run,ead to any positive results and improvement in the lives of. Sraelis or palestinians of course, it is disastrous in terms of humanitarian terms. When one thinks that this is what is necessary for israel to survive . That the zionist dream is based on the repeated slaughter of werents on a scale that watching these days on television . That is really a profound crisis and should be a profound crisis. The thinking of all of us who are committed to the establishment of the state and to its success, it leads one to a virtual rethinking of this historical phenomenon. Do yousiegman, what believe the objectives of israel are in this present assault on gaza . They have several objectives. Although im not sure that each of them are specifically responsible or the carnage we are seeing. It has, what seems on the ive justifiable object i of ending these rocket attacks , hard to say they are aimed at civilians, but. Hey could and would have on the face of it, israel has the right to do what it doing now, which has been affirmed by the president of the United States repeatedly, but no country would agree to live with that kind of threat repeatedly hanging over it. But what he does not add and this principle, undermines this principle, is that no country and know people would live the way that gazans have been made to live. , this moral equation which puts israel on top as the victim, and has to act to prevent a situation from , and theg that way palestinians in gaza or hamas, the organization responsible, media rarely, our ever points out that these are people that have a right to live a decent and normal life, too. They must also think, what must we do to put an end to this . , the article that you mentioned, i pointed out, the morality of israels actions depends, in the first instance, on the question, couldnt israel be doing something to prevent this disaster that is playing out now, in terms of the destruction of human life . Couldnt they have done something that did not require that cost . Theyhe answer is, sure, could have ended the occupation, with whatever the risks car, certainly it is not rater than the price being paid now, for permanently maintain this relationship with the palestinians. When you say israel can in the violence if it ends the occupation, israel says that it left years ago. I want to play a clip for you from msnbc. The host was interviewing the israeli spokesperson. I want to take issue with one word you said. You said israel is the occupying authority. You forget israel pulled out of the gaza strip. We took down all the settlements and those that did not want to leave, we force them to leave. We pulled back to the 1967 frontier. There is no Israeli Occupation of the gaza strip. Can you respond . That is utter nonsense. And for several reasons. Controlledl, gaza is completely like the west bank because it is totally surrounded by israel. Israel could not be imposing itd of chokehold on gaza if were not surrounded, if its military were not surrounding gaza. Not just on the territory, but in the air and sea. No one can make a move without coming into contact with israeli idf, outside of this imprisoned area where gazans live. One i have encountered involved with International Law that suggests that gaza is not considered occupied. So that is sheer nonsense. But there is another point triggered by your question to me , and it is the Propaganda Machine and these official spokespeople. Take a look at what kind of people these are. Think they would building up energy, the area, making it a model government, model economy. Instead, they are working on rockets. Is thatication here they, in effect, offered palestinians a mini state and it did not take advantage of it. So the issue is not really palestinian statehood. That has been the purpose of this critique. , ande always asked myself this has a great deal to do with my own changing views about the policies of government, not about the jewish state, but the policies pursued by Israeli Government and supported they say israel is a model democracy in the middle east. You have to assume the public has to take some responsibility of what the government does because they put the government in place. So the question i asked myself, what if the situation were reversed . Saying n italian neighbor untilr you can imagine himself in yourself in his place. My first question when i deal related to the israelipalestinian issue, what if the situation were reversed and the Jewish Population were told, here, you have less than two percent of palestine. Now behave, no more resistance. Let us deal with the rest. Who would havew said this is a reasonable proposition, that we cease our resistance, our efforts to establish a jewish state . Eveny would agree to that they would say this is absurd. So the expectations that palestinians speaking about the resistance as a concept. Not talking about rockets and whether they were justified or not. They are not. Sending rocket that will kill civilians is a crime. But for palestinians to try, in any way they can, to end this state of affair, and to expect of them to end their struggle and focus on less than two percent to build a country, is absurd. , not a propaganda discussion of all it six or morality. One of the things that is repeated most often is the problem with the palestinian government. A terroristsidered organization by israel and the United States. I want to read you a short quote from an article you wrote in 2009. You said hamas is no more than a terrorist organization that the Zionist Movement in it struggle for a jewish homeland in the late 1930s and 1940s. Parties within the Zionist Movement resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons. Could you elaborate on that and what you see as the parallels between the two . I am glad i said that, and in fact, i repeated it to the New York Times in a letter the other day. Prestate stage, had several terrorist groups that is doing exactly what hamas is doing today. Shot rockets, but they killed innocent people, and in even more targeted ways that these rockets do. Benny morris published a book that is considered the bible on the war the israeli historian. Which he says i read it and i was shocked. Particularly in his most recent information,s new the idea that the Israeli Defense had to open up and publish, that the israeli general received direct civilians,s to kill line them up against the wall to shoot them, in order encourage the exodus of 700,000 palestinians, left their homes and towns and their villages were destroyed. Terror, not just within the terrorist groups, but within the Israeli Military that fought the war of independence. , that hascent book. Eceived some attention incidentally, one of the people was oneording to him, of the people that receive the orders, and he talks about why he believes. Hese orders were given he was not a general then but he executed the orders. Meaning . What did it mean that he executed the orders . That he executed civilians. Thishe rationale given for some years ago, i had an interview, and i said, my god, you are saying deliberate ethnic cleansing. He said, yes, there was. And justified. Otherwise there would not have been a state. That was one of the turning points. He would not follow up and say, if that is a justification, a struggle for statehood, why cant palestinians do that . Why are hamas demonized for doing what we did . To the israeli Prime Minister earlier this month bowing to punish those responsible for the killing of the palestinian teenager who was burnt alive following the murder of three israeli teens. In doing so, netanyahu drew a distinction between israel and its neighbors in how it deals with murderers. Our society,t, in the society of israel, there is place forace such these murderers. That is the difference between us and our neighbors. They consider murderers to be heroes. They named public squares after them. We dont. Oncondemn them and put them trial and put them in prison. That was Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu talking about the difference. Henry siegman, can you respond . The only difference i can think of is that in israel, the head of the terrorist groups are Prime Ministers. This distinction that he is drawing is false, its simply not true. The head of the two terrorist groups, which incidentally, denny, he writes in this prestate account, that the targeting of civilians was started by the jewish terrorist groups, and the arab groups followed. As you know, they became Prime Ministers of the state of israel. Netanyahu, public highways and streets are named after them. Henry siegman, former head of the American Jewish congress. We will continue our conversation with him in a minute. [ ] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Our conversation with the rabbi Henry Siegman. Former head of the American Jewish congress. I interviewed him tuesday with nermeen shaikh. I want to turn to the leader of hamas, who was speaking to charlie rose. He said hamas was willing to coexist with jews but said it would not live with a state of occupiers. I am ready to coexist with the jews, christians, the nonarabs, those who agree with my ideas and also disagree with them, however, i do not coexist with the occupiers, the settlers. It is one thing to say that you want to coexist with jews, another to say that you want to coexist with the state of israel. Do you want to coexist with israel . Do you want to recognize israel as a jewish date . State . No. I do not onto live in a state with occupiers. Hamast was the leader of he can to charlie rose. Henry siegman, can you respond to that and also to the claims that israel has made repeatedly that they cannot negotiate with an organization that refuses to record has the right of israel to exist in its current form . In International Custom and International Law, political parties, like hamas, are not required or even asked to recognize states. The question is whether the government of which they are a part, and that makes policy and executes policy, whether that government is prepared to recognize other states. This is true in the case of israel as well. Israel any of government. Incidentally, i discussed this several times with him face to face, and asked him whether he would be part of a government that recognizes the state of yes,l, and he says that the palestinian. Ublic approves that policy ,nd he repeated to me the fact absolutely right, asking if they would affirm israel as a jewish state. He says we would not do that, but he never said that we would not serve in a government that has public support for that edition position. But a more important point to be made here, and this is why these distinctions are so dishonest. The state of israel does not recognize a palestinian state, which is to say there are parties in netanyahus government, very important the es, including his own, likud, as an official platform that does not recognize palestinians as a state anywhere in palestine. Have the other , who also says there will never be a palestinian state in palestine. Why hasnt our government or havee said, hamas, if you parties like that in your government, you are not a peace partner, and you are a terrorist group, if in fact, you used violence to implement your policy as hamas does. So the hypocrisy in the discussion taking place publicly is mindboggling. Ofyou are the former head one of the leading jewish organizations, the American Jewish congress. Also the Synagogue Council of america. These are major establishment jewish organizations. Thesaid you went to see head of hamas several times. The u. S. Government calls them a terrorist organization and will not communicate with them, they communicate through other countries. Talk about your decision to meet with him, where you met with him, and the significance of your conversations. First of all, it should be noted that the u. S. Has no such policy of meeting with terrorist organizations. Has a policy of not meeting with hamas, that is different. We are happy to negotiate with the taliban, and they are happy to kill girls that go to school, and that did not prevent the United States from having negotiations with the taliban, so thats nonsense that we dont talk to terrorist organizations. We talk to enemies if we want to cease the slaughter and we are happy to do so if it reaches an agreement to do it. Why should hamas be the exception . Again, i find it dishonest. The only reason we do that is in response to the pressures from aipac and israels position. The largest caucus in the aeli knesset explained that in english. It means the whole land of israel. This is a parliamentary caucus, the largest, which is totally dedicated to not permit any government to establish a palestinian state anywhere in the land of israel, headed by members, which is headed by the Prime Minister of israel. What boggles the imagination is that nobody talks about it, nobody pointed out, and nobody says how can you take these positions with hamas if this is exactly what is going on with your own government . Are far more familiar than most, the argument made by israel and supporters of israel is what could be construed as a disproportionate response by do witho hamas has to the historical experience of the persecution of the jews and the holocaust. How do you respond to those kinds of claims . I do not accept that at all. The lessons on the. Persecutions, it would seem to me, if you follow jewish , the lesson of those persecutions, we have always said, until the state of israel came into being, is that you do the cruelpeople in way. The hope was that israel would always be a model democracy, a state that would practice jewish values, in terms of its humanitarian approach to these issues, its pursuit of justice and so on. I have always felt, for me, the holocaust experience, which was important to me, since i lived occupation,der nazi most of it running from place to place and hiding. I always felt the important lesson of the holocaust is not that there are evil people in mostworld who could do the. Nimaginably cruel things that was not the great lesson of the holocaust. The great lesson of the holocaust is that decent cultured people, people who would otherwise be considered evilpeople, can allow such to prevail, that the german public they were not monsters, but it was ok with machine dide nazi what they did. I am not drawn comparison tween israeli machine and the condition. Point is not exactly what they did, but the pot is, the thatnce that they gave decent people could watch evil and do nothing about it, that is the most important point of the holocaust. But theer and the ss, public that allowed this to happen, and my deep disappointment that the israeli democracy,it is a put these people back into office again and again. Mentioned your experiences as a holocaust survivor. Could you go into it more deeply . You were born in germany in 1930. Talk about the rise of the nazis and how your family escaped. I do not consider myself a survivor in the sense that i was not in a concentration camp but i lived under nazi occupation. Came born in 1930, nazis to power in 1933. We lived in germany at the time. My parents lived in frankfurt. My father decided to give up a successful business and moved to belgium on the assumption that belgium was safe, that they 90s escaping the nazis. Then they invaded belgium and france, early 1940. From that point on, until february 1942, when we finally arrived in the United States i dont know how my father pulled it off. To me this day. There were six children that he had to bring with him. Place. From place to dunkirk when in there was a memorable evacuation , and then we were sent back finally nazi troops caught up with us in dunkirk. Had connections with the police chief because of his business. He was tipped off the morning the gestapo were supposed to come to our house and take us away. Paris. Ged to get to from paris, we were smuggled occupiede border into vichy, france. Without robert papers, hiding. Then we tried to cross into spain, but when we did, the spanish port had been closed and they sent us back into france. Then we managed to get a boat to take us from marseille to north africa, where we were briefly in a camp. Then a portuguese ship taking refugees to the United States stopped in north africa. We boarded the ship. We were on the high seas for two weres because the nazis sinking the ships they encountered, so we had to go all the way around to avoid various nazi submarine areas. After two weeks, we arrived in arrived athere we ellis island, which was full of germans who were being sent back. But as we walked into the hallway, i will never forget inking, we are in america at es werend those bund saying in the hallway, hiel hitler. The headd you become of two of the countrys major jewish organizations, and what was your position on zionism after world war ii . My fathers was one of the leaders of european zionism, the ,ead of the religious movement not just belgium but western europe. The founders and the many others were guests in our house. They used to take me on their knee and teach me hebrew songs. As a kid, i was an ardent zionist. I recall on the ship coming over, coming to america, i was writing some poetry and songs. Bout the blue sky of palestine and so, into adulthood, not ,ntil well after the 1967 war when i came across a discussion in which i was told by the israeli people that i was talking to, the senior government people, that they had. Nitiative about peace he said the israeli public was not prepared for that. And that hit me like a hammer. Notion drilledis woulde, if only the arabs reach out and be willing to live wouldce with israel, that be the time of the messiah. And they saidame no, Public Opinion is not ready for that. Magazin, piece in a which was made into a cover story. Was, i will not remain. Ilent zion that changed how i thought about things on the ground. Prior to that, your sense was that if arab had reached out there would be two states. I had no doubt. The resolution, the partisan resolution, which is really invoked in its declaration of independence, rooted its that partition plan. The answer given is, they were not accept it, and the partition plan was never officially adopted. Well, then why are you putting in your declaration of independence, if you consider it to be null and void . The response, the slogan, the idea that was put forth so much in the founding of the state of israel, palestine is a land without a people, or a people without land. That was the common understanding, was referred to repeatedly, that the Zionist Movement, at its very birth, was founded on a myth. That palestine was a country without a people. He recognizes in his book that it was a lie. So therefore, from the beginning, zionism did not confront this profound moral dilemma that was at its heart. How do you deal with that reality . That, one ofnce of the ways they dealt with it was to seek the expulsion of 700,000 people from their cities and towns and villages and the destruction of all of them, which to his credit, ari shavit writes about. Henry siegman is the former executive director of the American Jewish congress as well as the Synagogue Council of america. He recently wrote a piece headlined israel provoked this war. We will link to it on democracynow. Org. Tune in tomorrow for part two of our conversation with ricky talks about where he talks about media coverage. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. Joanne i love food that simple enough to serve on tuesday night for you family but elegant enough to serve for company on saturday night and thats what todays show is all about. Im going to start first of all by making a bruschetta salad with prosciutto di san danielle and greens. And after with student serena, together were going to make some clams with chorizo and orange. And for dessert, some butter fried pound cake with Vanilla Ice Cream with a blueberry and maple syrup compote. I think youre going to love todays show so dont go anywhere. [ music ]