Marketplace is supported by C 3 A I addressing the world's most challenging problems at the convergence of artificial intelligence. And elastic cloud computing learn more at say 3. In Los Angeles on car results Friday the 13th of August is always to be along everybody I'm honestly not sure how much more you need in any given week than the Fed getting dragged into politics another step up in the trade war and economic growth coming in lower than people had expected but we got all that this week and even some more so let's figure out what the one genus mileages at the New York Times keep Davidson's the Wall Street Journal they are both in our bureau in Washington everybody. Hey I said you know let me start with you and the Fed and politics just to recap the Bill Dudley the former president of the New York Federal Reserve which is to say he was a big deal inside monetary policy and the Fed came out with an op ed this week in which he said number one the Fed should not and able president trumps trade war and he said in the last paragraph which is really the kicker look Fed I think you need to think about the 20000 elections when you're thinking about your policy stance what do you think Bill Dudley who knows better than anybody the reverence of Federal Reserve independence what was he thinking. That is the question and I think the Fed watches T.V. On a straight year yeah I think you know up and up until that last paragraph you kind of read it and it it made sense with what others have said with what analysts have said you know there is this feeling out on Wall Street that maybe the Fed is enabling this trade while the Fed itself likes to distance itself very much from that view but then you get to that last paragraph and this idea that the Fed should be thinking about politics as it sets monetary policy and that is something completely divorced from what the Fed itself will tell you is the way it sets policy at very much focuses on inflation employment and chirp L. Says every time somebody asks him about one of the president's tweets Kate he says I'm going to do my job and we've got you know 2 things worried about inflation and stable prices do you think Kate Davidson that Bill Dudley did harm to the Fed and that's because frankly I'm waiting for a presidential tweet here honestly I'm I'm shocked we haven't seen I am Tiro And I think frankly it's hard to see how the op ed helped the Fed in any way I think that's right the Fed The Fed is going to generally and this happens any time there's an economic downturn the Fed usually gets blamed for it so I'm not sure that you know stepping back and refusing to quote unquote enable the trade war is going to really protect the Fed in some way from the economic harm that comes from the may come from the president's trade policies so kind of the suggestion that that they shouldn't go along with it. I just think it sort of goes against the way that they set policy which is to say you know fiscal policy makers administration lawmakers they make their decisions and and that's their job and that's separate from what we do we make our decisions based on how the economy is doing and how the economy responds to that So really quickly I just I was going to go here but I had Robert Kaplan from the Dallas Fed on the program on Wednesday and we talked a little bit he and I about how just a case in point about how the Fed always gets blamed We need to have in this country more economic policy responses than just oh the Fed's going to fix this right. Yes And I think that's a sort of a common complaint you'd hear from central bankers around the world this past week was the Jackson Hole meeting you know where a bunch of these sort of big name central bankers get together in in Wyoming and chat about monetary policy and all things economic and just the common refrain you hear is we need more fiscal support and people are too willing to rely on monetary policy to just save us from all of our economic woes and you know this isn't it doesn't seem to have changed in the wake of the crisis All right let us turn now to sort of something else that's going on out there and we're going to talk about this a little bit later in the program to Kate I want to talk about the American consumer who is again and still the American economy is lifeline how much longer do you suppose consumers could keep that up. Well I think consumers the outlook looks good for the rest of the year but I think that one thing that is concerning some economists is actually if you look on the corporate side corporate profit growth was strong in the 2nd quarter we found that out this week you know latest update on G.D.P. But you know it's they're only up about 1.7 percent from a year earlier and economists project that that could soften later in the year so you know and business investment has declined so they're a little bit worried that that could spill over to the consumer if companies start you know if it weighs on hiring or if companies start laying people off right now as you said everything looks good but there are a few reasons to be concerned. Speaking of reasons to be concerned you know smiling in the last minute that we have left I have not yet sort of the word trade war I think on the broadcast yet today but more jobs coming on Sunday that's still going on. Right. And certainly a reason to be concerned So Chad bone at the Peterson Institute has been putting out these really great updates just sort of tracking how much tariffs have gone up over time and as of Sunday I think it's going to be something like 21 percent tariff overall on imports from China up from 3 percent when the trade where it started so you know this is just it's been a real escalation and it's kind of happened over time it's been a little bit like boiling a frog but at the end of the day this is starting to matter to U.S. Businesses and I think the real concern is the more recent tranche is more recent sort of iterations about refs are much more on consumer products than the previous rounds were and so that's going to matter because it's going to force these consumer companies that don't have a lot of pricing power to begin with to decide whether they're going to lift prices and hurt consumers or whether they're going to take it on sort of the profit side right which we'll also hear about later in the program one last thing about about those tariff levels not only are the Chinese raising overall tariff levels on us they are lowering them on other people so there's a lot to keep your eye on. Like at that The New York Times kid Davidson at the Wall Street Journal in Washington for us on this Friday before 3 day weekend thank you to thank you thank you Wall Street as I said on a Friday in front of a 3 day weekend kind of a wash actually maybe the algorithms left out early on we'll have the details when we do the numbers. Right so Sunday as I said couple minutes ago is the latest trade war turning point President Trump's next round of tariffs on Chinese imports kicks in 15 percent on a 122 page long list of items including original sculptures and statuary in any material postage all revenue stamps stamp post marks 1st day covers postal stationery and the like used or unused other than heading 4907 collections and collectors pieces of zoological but tannic will mineralogical anatomical historical archaeological etc interest. Antiques of an age exceeding 100 years people collect a lot of things and one of the things people collect certainly antiques and amongst those they certainly collect Chinese antiques may be more of your grandma's generation but but people you know like fancy china in the past Peter top as a lawyer also the executive director of the global heritage of alliance Yes Kim importers aren't going to want to pay 15 percent upfront to consign something from China that they want to sell here I think it's going to be a real track on the ability of antiquities dealers to get consignments from abroad there's a technicality with Chinese antiques as well Tapa says because most of the Chinese antiques that we collect here don't come directly from China because China has put export controls on a lot of them so a lot of the material that we actually collect here in the United States comes from places like Britain were Japan where it's also widely collected so it's still the tariff is still going to be collected on it because the country of origin is China but the material has been out of China for you know decades and missed instances which means Tapa says there's really no net effect on China from these tariffs all of which is to say if you're going in taking this weekend go Saturday not Sunday if you happen to have missed yesterday's broadcast on the radio we did a whole lot more of these tariff explainers English accent and all you can catch up with a marketplace podcast available of course wherever fine podcasts are offered. Talked about this a little bit with Gina and Kate the yeoman's work you all are doing you all being consumers of course holding this economy up right now more evidence of that today the Commerce Department reported a solid increase in consumer spending last month up 6 tenths of one percent so nice job. Where the cash for all that spending is coming from oh that matters as marketplace Kimberly Adams explains consumer spending is fueling economic growth even as businesses pull back on investments but more spending isn't by itself always a good thing prior to the great recession a lot of consumers and households are using credit as the main means of financing their outlays Gregory DAC 0 of Oxford Economics says unlike back then today we're seeing is consumer spending growing more and more in line with real disposable income growth he says people are mostly spending within their means at the same time credit card delinquencies are on the rise and overall consumer debt is at more than 13 trillion dollars including mortgage and student loan debt that's about a trillion more than just before the Great Recession Mariel Beasley co-founder of the commonsense lab studies consumer behavior she says the solid job market and low interest rates lower people into borrowing more than they should people taking on more and more debt whether that be sort of mortgage debt or credit card or car loan debt a lot of that is people will borrow up to the amount that somebody will give them as long as unemployment remains low and wages rise people can spend and probably manage all right but says Mark Hamrick a senior economic analyst at bankrate dot com One thing that we do need to keep in mind is that expansions do not last forever and at some point we will have an economic downturn which is another way of saying a recession and it's at that point he says that having a lot of debt can become a lot more problematic in Washington I'm Kimberly Adams for Marketplace. Coming up since the early ninety's I think that we've been engaged in a grand experiment now a grand global experiment. Big tech and the regulation they're all straight ahead but 1st to the numbers. 41 points to percent 26004 o 3 the Nasdaq dropped 10 points 10 percent. 62. POINT we'll call that flat 20 and 26 for the 5 days gone by the Dow just over 3 percent. Point 6 percent the. Improved. Boeing gained 3 percent today even though. The news pulling Boeing 737 schedules December remember that plane still cannot fly. But prices fell just a tad the. Remains of 1.49 percent. Marketplace is supported by. Lucian's for the modern workforce and the people who support motivate and engage. Talent Time. Slash. And. Personalized management and capital markets. 20 percent contained. Structures. Sponsors include Sun Trust Private Wealth Management local advisors strive to help clients navigate life with wealth management experience confidence more information . 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This is MARKETPLACE I'm back to the Harmonized Tariff Schedule we go the list of things the trumpet ministration is going to slap 15 percent import taxes on starting Sunday at 12 or 1 am The list includes bovine carcasses in halves fresh or chilled milk protein concentrates safety pins and thumbtacks also fish hooks smelled fish hooks fishing reels valued over $8.45 each pots and accessories for fishing reels fishing line put up and packaged for retail sale fishing costs all leaders sale builds pots and accessories for sale builds water skis surfboards and other water sports equipment other than cell boards and parts and accessories that are all so it's going to get a little bit pricier to spend a day on the water we rely on a global supply chain and it's definitely impacted boating industry as they called us Larry she's from the National Marine Manufacturers Association much of the fishing equipment is imported from China and here's the real question then for this whole tariff thing the president trumps God going on every manufacturer is going to have to make their choice and make a decision of whether that's going to be passed directly on to the consumer but understanding that there's only so much time and money out there a quick shot one more time to the voice of the harmonised Tariff Schedule the past couple of days for us our foreign editor John Buckley. At some point the 2020 campaign season notwithstanding Congress is going to get back to the question of regulating the tech industry they're been hearings already Yes And some agencies the Federal Trade Commission for instance has opened an antitrust investigation into Facebook but so far more talk than action I mention that because I did a panel. This month at Fortune magazine's brainstorm tech conference up in Aspen Colorado topic detour for the hour long discussion yes regulation of big tech specifically should big tech be regulated 5 people on the panel all told Elizabeth banker from the Internet Association that's a lobbying group Diane Katz from the conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation to keep from way Mo alphabets cell driving car company can make sure you from the like Electronic Frontier Foundation that's a digital civil rights group and Luigi Zingales from the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business so with that roster of players here you go I'm going to change the question that we're asking in this session it's not how should technology be regulated it's when it's going to be read as not should technology be regulated Rather it's how and when let me start with Elizabeth Banks from the Internet Association Test my premise here is this the right conversation to have not should but when and how the Internet Association represents Internet companies from the smallest to the largest and there is one thing that they all agree on is that there is an urgent need for federal privacy legislation and the reason that we feel this way is that there is a lack of clear guardrails for companies to follow and for consumers to know and understand and overall this impacts consumer trust but it also impacts and creates business uncertainty and can impact innovation going cast from heritage it's a common yes or no. I hope not I mean I have to give in to the promise that you presented because I certainly am one that's going to continue to fight against the idea that there should be regulation since the early ninety's I think that we've been engaged in a grand experiment with the Internet and it's completely outpaced the adaptive capacities of our social political and economic institutions so it does make a lot of sense to me that we now are talking about handing to them control for some of the issues that have arisen during this grand experiment bureaucracy is that neither impartial and they're not altruistic The fact is Facebook with love regulation Google with regulation because it creates hurdles to new entrants and it really undermines the evolution of the market so let's hold it there with a couple because I'm going to get to we get a 2nd and I'll return to you on the merits of this because I want to go to cuter market where Mo subsidiary of alphabets just recently as we heard yesterday got permission to operate autonomous taxi cabs in California talk to me about regulation it's common do you want to do or don't you. So I find myself somewhere between the 1st 2 responses so if you're playing as a driving technology company we were born 10 years ago we wouldn't exist if this was a space that was regulated 10 years ago the reality is that innovation is born where there's a lack of heavy handed regulation that said the automotive industry is deeply regulated and so we actually straddle both and because of that we actually think it's really important to figure out how to engage in these conversations early and responsibly 10 years ago companies were like I'm in a door in D.C. As long as I can 5 years ago companies were like I'm going to have more D.C. As long as I can so I think we're seeing this evolution in companies now wanting to figure out how to engage responsibly with regulators and certainly that's the case with labor. Christmas sure. Your foundation civil liberties all. Yea or nay regulations coming to your state so regulations coming get used to that's for sure but I think a couple cats to that I think it's really important to focus on what kind of regulation we're talking about there's a reason why the Internet Association and many other companies are suddenly excited about federal privacy rules and that's because a few states have put in place state strong state privacy rules and folks are not happy about that so suddenly everyone is interested in federal regulation in a way that they never were before and I think privacy rules are actually important and long overdue and necessary and I think if there's a federal law that's as good as the state laws greats we'll see what happens but I share with the Heritage Foundation and many many others a deep concern about federal overreach and regulatory overreach Federal regulators are often not particularly good at it and so we have a deep concern about that and the other thing that we need to be careful for careful of is. Not trying to put in place rules that are sort of one size fits all because there are going to be many regulations that might make sense for Facebook or Google or for giants that are just going to stifle the next Facebook actually create thank you so let's go let's go to Lou which is in dollars from the universe of Chicago Booth School of Business. Address those 2 points the Korean and Dion cash from heritage made about competition in this marketplace and regulations affect you read on this a lot about the effects of concentration in these big tech companies the power and political In fact they have going absolutely I think when we talk about regulation the question is which regulation because some regulation can be pro competitive think about number portability of your cell phone this is a choice of the South will provide this is something that was imposed by wiggly ssion something that increased dramatically competition and if you look around the war places that that number portability and lower prices and at least as good quality so is Anat benefit for consumers so what we want is think about how can we increase competition in the sector because even on privacy competition can be a solution if you have an upturn A-T. . You out on the pressure to produce a better condition for your consumers so that was I guess you'd say the Digest version of what the panelists had to say about what Ted really tech regulation is or ought to be wouldn't be a penalty question of course without audience questions the 1st one came courtesy of Fortune's own admission ski I think this meme that the that regulators are not able to regulate is bull. We curse here we are allowed to curse here oh is that yeah that's what you said OK And so I would like some of you who are who feel that way to to address that please. So let's go ahead you're on. The boardwalk. Stand up OK we have we have decades worth of experience. In what the consequences of regulation are I'm not arguing that they can't regulate of course they can regulate they regulate tons of things all the time the question is What are the consequences that regulation and what are the costs of those regulations and my point here is that users the public. Because of the Internet in particular are much more powerful and effective as a force for change than government will ever be and to impose a 20th century regulatory model on a 21st century market risks turning regulation into strictly a political exercise because there's no law undergirding Thank you yes ma'am right there please stand up Those are your parliament that also C.E.O. Of code 2040 I mean we're outsourcing American infrastructure to a bunch of private companies right now and that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad that they got there 1st but American infrastructure definitely needs to catch up and the fact of the matter is that for the big 5 you have companies that have more power than nation states there and we have our own legislative bodies not understand how to interact with them and come to hearings less prepared than they would for a hearing on China so I just I cannot wrap my brain around how we're going to look at that gap between our American infrastructure and say well then these private companies are going to make private decisions around American public policy to take that one would you as the representative of private companies here in this economy . I think that's a really interesting point the question of whether it's been outsourced the sort of US infrastructure I mean it has been outsourced to companies but that innovation wouldn't have happened with the government at the helm and so one of the things that's most important now representing wave on the driving technology company is we're knee sent and we're doing all 3 of these were engaging with regulators at the federal state and internationally we are engaging with consumers because the reality is they're the ones deciding that the status quo isn't good enough 40000 people dying on the roads every year we're pretty immune to it 100 a day in the US we're pretty immune to that issue that's an actual value proposition that causes people to say oh if you can use my data to help me get from point A to Point B. That isn't something my elected official can figure out without you know at the same time we need policymakers to recognise they're there to represent the constituents in the constituents to find the value proposition and right now to me what we're seeing is this reach sat you know 10 years ago people thought social media was actually worth the value proposition now maybe we've aged out of that but whatever it is people have reevaluated the value proposition of that and there isn't actually a way in the legislative process to get those voices back and. So there was a fortune brainstorm conference up in Aspen. 6 something weeks ago like I said the whole conversation went and our we talked about a speech bunch of other things also for the big tech companies ought to just be broken up a little also commanded your attention the full video of the panel which we've got in market place. Today just because I. I love it so much and who knows when I'm just going to get to read aloud from the Harmonized Tariff Schedule again right so the list of stuff that goes into effect this weekend is technically called list for a 15 percent tax on about $150.00 or so 1000000000 dollars' worth of stuff that we import from China list for B. He goes into effect December the 15th that will be everything else we import from China that's not already tariff so from list for be a random sample for your pre-Christian is tariff pleasure breadboard chopping board chopsticks forks and spoons of bamboo live mushroom spawn garden umbrella's electro Pharmac hairdryers I could go on all day or trade correspondent Tracy Samson once told me every Tariff Schedule tells a story. And . Marketplace is supported by Charles Schwab when it comes to YOUR MONEY Schwab believes asking questions can help lead to better outcomes learn more at Schwab dot com forward slash compare us our we are not here down to was up 41 points today about a 10 percent NASDAQ down 10 a 10 percent S. And P. 500 basically flat for the week though pretty good a pretty good week rather all the way around on Wall Street our theme music was composed by B.J. Leiderman marketplace is executive producer. Clark is the senior vice president and general manager. We are gone for the long weekend if you work and thank you if you're not enjoy yourself back on the. This is a PM. Good afternoon it is 229 in K.C. As we barrel toward the 3 day Labor Day weekend Don't touch that dial the treatment is next with Elvis Mitchell. You're listening to King. Next time on All Things Considered the Supreme Court says police need a warrant to track people with G.P.S. When activists say they're suing because it's not being followed at the border like Israel is eager to do business with the country the U.S. Considers a security threat and a look at the Trump administration's decision to move away from the Coast Guard and cybersecurity programs and into border enforcement plus local news weather and traffic it's ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from N.P.R. And. A Friday edition starts at 3. More on all me on to the point as Democrats battle against each other are they spoiling their party's chances of retaking the White House I heard that among some of the Democrats saying look if we're not addressing the economy jobs and many of the issues that concern workers in the heartland the same folks that voted for Champ We may not have a chance to beat him on our to the point podcast. From Casey or W. Santa Monica and case here to view dot com It's the treatment. Welcome to the treatment of this Michel it's always good to have friends who've never actually done the show or for Fifa 10 like number oppression off or whatever I talk to a couple gentleman who has very producers go back to us I guess Superbad and of course as directors This is the end in the interview and the producers of a new film now good boys but more importantly they're here for an Amazon adaptation their 2nd or with Garth Ennis The 1st was with a preacher but now the voice of the 1st comic ever to use an N.W.A. Album cover. As a response for its cover cause I'm talking to Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen guys thanks so much for being here thank you very much for the effort thing let me ask you this is some point everything you guys write or attract. 2 grown men are crying yes you need that just reflects reality and if men are crying you're not seeing a lot of and they're out there bawling were crying guys guys should cry more they that should be portrayed more I don't know if you guys camp or trade anymore we're Yeah exactly more men cry there'd be less problems in the world we cry and few times every every where you have a guy says Yeah but that's what they think about that it's happened so often it does. Something we never actually talked about this a member once since you're sitting in front we have our characters do the things we can so much. We've both killed that part of ourselves. Yeah I think I think I mean I think we both come from the school I mean especially with comedy we're like trauma is is funny kind of in the more miserable your characters are generally the funnier things are which is a good thing for a comic I learned a young agent is a good philosophy you know I think it's a good tool it's like a coping mechanism in general where like I mean when we were writing Superbad like you know something bad would happen to us and we'd be like oh we can at least put this into our work in some capacity. You can't take that you can't bully comedy aspirations and so yeah I think in general this idea of like comedy and pain and detainment and pain and sadness and. Excess right and yeah exactly it's always been a very tangible theme in our work. Also somebody who thinks themselves being the alpha male yet is wrong about that is the one who's going to I mean yes we like to break down strong men at. Also which is the kind of fits in with that with the interest that you guys have in British comics creators because they're so dystopian and there's such a kind and I think ideas are tearing down the hero bit yeah and they do with like such a passion the British guys like they have this weird passion and I are. Yes if I have yeah and it's really fascinating like and what we do or do you find that we share similar like because we're Canadian so we both grew up in places where like you are watching American culture like they're watching it from very far we're watching it from like not that far but it is still not our culture you know what I mean we found a lot of common ground with people who aren't necessarily American it's because what I think about this is the end and that could almost be something written by Garth Ennis it's yes it's dystopian it's about how a bunch of alpha male sort of act when they're when they're basically put in a really claustrophobic situation you know what we were doing preacher one of the things we found was like a lot of our sensibilities was actually kind of defined by by preacher in a lot of ways you know and I think a lot of the things we loved like Pulp Fiction and think things like that in some way took some cues from preacher you know and I think there are they were things that were kind of converging at around the same time you know and that was all stuff that we grew up loving so it was there certainly are more for our most formative years were the years we were reading preachers just lined up perfectly to kind of infuse that sensibility in US Yeah and it was this like also around the same time yeah that like Pulp Fiction was coming out in that like Evil Dead and kind of army of darkness and dead alive in those kinds of movies and we like love that stuff is a treat we're talking about tearing down American culture to Canadians. Goldberg's that's about it we've done a good job yes. Or do some we really have it both literally and figuratively and still doing it but again I think if we if you look at both the interview and this I can really see the influence of this on them because they take so archetype will. Cultural figures in them as well what you do in both those movies and preacher does that certainly the boys does that you know the idea of just taking I mean dragged down to go back there is no the voice there's a character here with the really the hero is supposed to be Simon Pegg you can tell yeah they cast him in a comic book which was so strange and it's funny because it is something that we had actually talked about like I remember when the boys came out it was like a joke that we had been saying were like you'd be funny to cast actors in a comic book and then and then they did I remember we bought the boys ago they did they put so I would take it all that blood and yeah it's which is a weird thing to do like it and I had to I think someone called him and asked if it was OK for I don't think they did I think someone I fire remember someone just told him like did you know you're the star of a comic book and he was like whoa and then like I would I mean we could get to the bottom of this with relatively can we call Simon. I'm sure you can call them or the end of the day we could figure out the you know what I should but yeah it's a weird thing to do and it is kind of like this is the end in a weird way like it is again because I break the 4th wall kind that's my point is sometimes like that to me yeah. Dawson also made a comic but she did it herself yeah herself yeah which is also good yeah which was also awesome and I wish I could you know yeah it's like it's super and people just love it more than anything I think like audiences are ready for it's funny because like we were talking about like like you know because of the movie I was like weird I like Once Upon a Time in the West and all those Clint Eastwood movies and I think it was a similar thing where it was like Westerns where there's like big like colorful like bounce see John right that was super popular and then some people came in and were like What if these movies were like. Dark and violent in. And and kind of acknowledged how what a weird time this was and how crazy these movies are and didn't kind of like glamorize it but instead kind of like like made almost jokes about it and winked at it a little bit and I and it's a similar thing and I think with the boys and things like that like and it's what we've kind of like done a little bit like with our various movies in some ways where it's like when we made Superbad like high school movies sucked and there was kind of the sense of like what if there was like a good one like and same with Pineapple Express like the idea of making weed movies was just like you know ridiculous but we were like What if it was kind of like a cool interesting one well also an actual story and it just said exactly when there was something I want and what we thought was more than anything I think and why I think people are responding to it so much is because like superhero things are so popular but they're all so like one thing in even Deadpool which I love is still a part of that world very firmly you know and so the idea I think that yeah we were able to kind of add like the scope and production value and wardrobe and characters of like the things people already like watching but that we were able to really kind of acknowledge the times in the climate and and subvert it as much as possible and also just kind of make it like like dark and cool and be like what if like those old movies you like what if this was actually happening it would be. Like they remind me of me reading the 1st issue of Marvel MAN Yeah Elmore's there were people would be like Oh Captain Marvel says measured we're in front of you yeah you'd be blinded by yeah burned to death and but you know what we're talking about those ideas taking something and finding the comedy in it but not making it strictly speaking a comedy and which is what you guys do because there's still a lot of emotional content I feel like when the things you respond to and so much this British stuff too is that the world is real even though there are elements of that is so exaggerated to be comedic it's the still. You have to live with that reality if you're talking about the the incineration over other things that happened in the boys and I want to give too much away about including the the thing that sets the whole thing into motion Yeah we're going to have a legend I say that. I think something unique that ties into that it's that the characters go deeper than any of the other kind of superhero things you've seen like to the laser eyes like imagine what they would do to a body but it's also imagine what to do to your mind to be the guy who shoots lasers and this show has this weird opportunity to like investigate the psychology in like a drawn out way that goes really deep with characters that are similar to what people have seen that I think. It makes all the action and all that stuff like matter because it's about the like psychosis some of them have in the struggle some of them have it's all about this like mental heard all these mental hurdles these people who are hyper messed up and have more stress than anyone ever would have to like overcome also the spirit they're talking about the the the homeland or just when he enters a room it's almost like a super villain walking into one of fact he's a hero but also he's not only a hero but in both the show and the Congo it's done so well in the show he's also a brand Yeah he's a brand any scary look I think that's the other thing that like. That like I think is interesting on the show in that they do very well is like the discomfort kind of everyone feels around the superhero it's like being around like a weapon you know like it's like whenever I'm around anyone with a gun I'm super uncomfortable like I just don't like it like and I think it's a similar thing that they portray where it's like the homeowner is just didn't like it's like if you were around Captain America really scary like he could kill everyone in a really fast with you know like and that like and you just hope he doesn't but it's it would be just super scary thing to be you're out when there's you know little or things like that if he sneezes are we going to be OK what's good hap is everyone going to find. You know he fainted and fell backwards when he crushed the floor and there are some hind him yeah exactly who knows what kind of P.T.S.D. He has he's been around a long time which we were choice in what if someone dropped something but also was great about implore you guys both appreciate and for the boys that these come to taking all points rather than some you want to be entirely reverent too because that's a often a trap of these these movies always adaptations as well as people look straight a huge too closely to what the comics are yes it's really like each one is a case by case basis like on preacher we decided to make the changes we decided to based on a myriad reasons but on the boys our choices as to what we should change are really focused on making that the making it that the boys didn't have powers in the same way that they do in the comic because it's just inherently more interesting to have normal people taking down these like gods and then the other thing was to focus a lot on the corporate nature of it which is in there plenty with Garstin but we wanted to make that more of a cornerstone of the whole project because it just it just would happen and it would be so fascinating and so messed up and so intrinsically tied into the culture of the world if they existed and I feel like grippy and those guys just crushed how they've taken that corporate aspect and handed it to be so like amazing and I think they condense the timeline in a way that made the show just so kinetic and exciting like it really plays out like in the midst of these like action kind of like 10 situations that really only span a few days over the course of like the 1st few episodes at least you know so like that restructuring was also I think very helpful as far as just making a T.V. Show that was fun to watch you know really fast basically because it just kind of flies from one episode to the next and you have an awesome thing is like we only had to make 8 episodes that was the deal and it's the best situation ever we can make 8 incredible episodes instead of 13 or 10 like the reduced number of episodes was just like a. Gift I didn't understand how good it was going to be but that is one of those things that are like with Garth we were like we were thinking of bringing up you know bringing up like what if they don't have powers of like you really never don't like is this good to be and he was just great you know that's probably better take . That put you as a Hawaiian shirt that that's not what. I like that. We will take a break and go in the flame Garth Ennis the creator of the more the 2nd half of the show with my guests. Over the release of the boys and good boys and so many other things there's much more to come and stay with us. Sponsors include films presenting Official Secrets based on the true story of Katharine Gunn a British spy who risked death to make public her own government's lies nightly and Ray finds now in select theaters. Welcome back we're still talking about comics dear God in Heaven is the treatment we're talking about the voice with my guests Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen who helped to bring so much of the great Garth Ennis stuff to screen I guess because we're talking about 2 of but this idea of the culture having these these these pieces where the culture is constantly being examined Yeah and that's something that comes to play in your work to an interview or this is the end of Superbad or pamphlet press people sort examine themselves and sort of tell you who they are all the time and I kind of wondered where that comes from for you guys that so often what you do as writers and then the stuff that you find to produce and bring to the screen that means or to that medical degree talking about it's all an expression of who we are you know some capacity and we are just like fascinated by a lot of different stuff and are always discussing the times and just we choose our projects based on things that seem investigative investigative you know yes sure yeah. To to to the world we live in yeah it's fascinating to us it is and I think you know I think the 1st thing we wrote was so personally you know like it was based literally on our lives and things that were happening to us and I think another thing is like it takes so long to make a movie like you're working on it for years and years and years and I think what we found was Superbad and Pineapple Express which was another movie that was written like years and years and years before it was made is like the only thing that kept us going is that we like truly loved these movies and that they were like super interesting to us and engaging to us and examining ideas that were really relevant to us and I think as we kept making movies one of the things like just having that experience was very informative because it was like the thing that kept us going was that we really were interested in these ideas and that we. Like we were examining at least some element of some idea that we couldn't point to a lot of other movies that had really examined that exact thing you know and that to us is also always very exciting when you're at least able to justify to yourself that you're doing something original so I think as we've continued to make movies yeah it's been you know with the inner like celebrity culture is obviously something that we examine a lot with this is the end and the interview and the boys and you know it because it's some I'm a famous person and Evan is around famous people all day every day and like I think the fact that you know partnerships you know male friendships we've been partners for 20 years I think we're friends and and we're also friends and so like then religion is also something that we talk a lot about and were generally wildly fascinated by and that's why things like Preacher and sausage Fardy are really engaging to us and for us to work on for decades because you know like you know we're gone so I was ready for like 8 years without really thinking you're doing something pretty interesting. Which is the sad thing. Religion those I guess who ask you the question of at some point in all these things the idea of life or death and the sort of the agreement you make yourself how do you feel about death yeah comes in almost all the school that was lying very early on I think it was the 1st thing that we made where like it's funny at the time there were not a lot of comedies that had life or death stakes and it's kind of a hard thing to do and I think with pineapple express that was almost the thing we realized we were good at a lot of it was off Midnight Run which had high stakes and Pulp Fiction was a movie that we were like obsessed with you know which also obviously people are getting killed in chop but it's still a funny movie a lot of the time I guess that's why I like people always say like Pineapple Express shouldn't have been like the idea here you know like adds a weed action movie. I don't think that should be a movie but what makes it a movie and a real story is that there's a real story and there's stakes and like these guys are going to die well you know that they really want to do you think they're really guy and you get the sense that they haven't quite figured out who they are but they will soon kind of unlike their coming into their own they're going to die right before their life begins and like that's as big a story as it gets and it needs to be like that in comedies because they're so silly and funny sometimes and have to ground in like extra sticks Yeah and I think that's the thing honestly that like as we have continued writing throughout our careers like we've recognized I think that we are specifically good at Whereas a lot of other comedy people are not as good at it is finding a way to balance the tone between life and death stakes and comedy while it being under some umbrella of a reality level that doesn't diminish those stakes and you actually feel like you're watching a movie where the characters might die and then that would be a bad thing then and in the end that kind of stuff happened it's not just our writing skills alone it's that like in real life like when people are in war they don't like not laugh the whole time they're you know there's funny moments in everything in dark moments like but the thing honestly the scene we reference the most is the scene that was like the biggest aha moment for that for us I think of the scene in Paul vixen where John Travolta shoots the guy's head in the back of a car by accident because it like it's funny it's shocking and there and the repetition there are repercussions that are totally real it instantly and that I think also like Tom was down to like couldn't turn to his wife in the sequel Yeah he's like really worried about is worried about his wife they don't know about that they're cleaning the brain and I think that's also one of the things that got us really obsessed with like the nuance of everything and that is what's funny I think about the boys also is like it's those little explored areas of things that are actually like the really funny and weird An interesting things where it is like the corporate side. Being a superhero being told where to go and what to do those little things that like are probably happening with the Avengers but you just don't see that sort of you know and like I think that is the stuff that the egos and how crazy you would be and how competitive you would be with the other people and all that kind of stuff will end up and when to get to connect to obviously the Avengers like the incredibly incredibly great thing that just so happened to line up is that this show came out right after the 1st full arc of an Avengers like your Marvel arc actually yeah I just yeah yeah yeah but so now like the average viewer understands the general framework of comics it's sure that 1st time ever start to OK how good it can get I never understood you did in the end did but they didn't understand how good it could get and now they do and they understand the need to wait and they understand all the pieces that are going to come together and can come together on the rights it can reach it's just the best know it's nice we're talking about call and response with Goldberg and Seth Rogen who knew his projects are good boys in the boys but what we talk about it looks Press one of things I think people forget is in the prologue you know his character is killed and I think what I mean because it's again for the very beginning of this the show there are record collections you know eyelashes that take place yeah and there's always context and what you guys have had the luxury of with the boys we should say is a sort of dystopian superhero a whirl and about a horrible accident happens and a real live team of people or normals which is say as you go to superhero armies Norm's is such a lot of ways of trying to fight this off but what you didn't have to do with the boys now and up but you didn't do it in preacher either you difficulty to contacts you know because thanks to not only generation Avengers movies but many many D.C. Movies as well people now understand that there are worlds you know to explain the world anymore you know that you had to in the 1st Batman movies or the 1st Superman movies now you can just sort of say you can just start off by then have a real prologue saying in this place. Which must have been a thrill to you guys that we've now arrived at this point and but you could have expected that by the time the boys hit screens that you know there have been vendors and games so many no I mean the boys and preacher we've been chasing them both forever and they could have happened 7 years ago when we would have jumped on it when we 1st met we're talking about these and yeah we're so lucky we didn't get to make these things for so long no I mean I mean that's I mean yeah it is very true and like we are very patient filmmakers if nothing else like and it's the thing that we're going ploy ring I think on people we work with almost more than anything is just like we've seen how like the average thing takes like 8 years from when you want to do it so when you're actually it's out in the world basic. And you know what's so funny about the boys for example is like when the 1st issue came out we went to Sony and numerous and were like you should buy this comic the boys and let us make it into a movie and they were like great we will and they did and then they hired Adam McKay to write it I know. A virtually that fell apart and I remember being at comic con men like 10 years ago maybe when McKay like announced that he was writing a dry was there for Paul Alien movies and so was Simon Pegg and I remember yeah that McHale like announce that he was writing it it was the Sony battlers I knew and he and I was he was writing directing the boys and I was like oh man that's. What we want and then that eventually and it just goes to show the times everyone at that time was a CO You can't make a big expense of R. Rated superhero movie that just won't work like you want to happen and and then it fell apart and then again through some like mix of like like Darwinian evolution and locks you know a lot of walk and walk and all I don't know well thank you Ryan Reynolds oh another Canadian Yes exactly so we have secret pacts Yeah exactly we all help each other. Was wildly helpful and yeah like all that stuff like really made it that we had like a strong case to go in and say like yeah let us let us do this but I guess because you talk about religion I brought up death because I just want to say that that's the thing that unites all these things even in Superbad it's not going to happen but when that that party they're afraid that their lives are today suddenly gets really violent the way they're not equipped to deal with it that's true so the threat of violence and blood being spilled because usually when we see blood in the comedy you know it's not real and when you guys do it it's always there's always like a real situation it leads up to and yeah the initial ending of Superbad one of them died. OK sure no you know the real Julie started. With a classmate of theirs having jolly originally the 1st scene of the movie was driving into a classmate's funeral good died. And what they're talking about is that he hadn't had sex and they knew that and they were like He died a virgin and they were and that was the whole spawn fuel silly joke it was that he asked Make a wish to get a getaway anyway and Edward said no and the whole time that's like the talk about everyone at school was like Make a Wish fuck this kid like you had one wish he had would wish like I do like why don't they did add so and that was kind of like it like the motivation for the whole movie was like it sent them into this like existential crisis where it's like we're good like if we died to morrow we would divergence and then ultimately we found we did not need something that big kind of motivate the movie and it actually made it a lot less relatable with a lot of ways but there was that there was always yes I think it's always been something it's always been our instinct to have a lot of death involved in our But that yeah this is because the we we see that here and it's always these kind of the things you guys are attracted to there's a character who is a person who enjoys that being that close to death Yeah we're working on something right now and that's exactly what we're going to really yeah it's a call you don't want to give a spoiler but there's some death in our neck Yeah exactly a lot of. Good thing about here is the show. Even with Butch I mean that that's really kind of amplified by the fact that in this iteration of the boys there are no superpowers to save these guys no just living on their wits and basically trying to take advantage of the fact that the real as a set in the show in a way that's not set in the comics the real weakness is that they're they have emotions Yeah and that they are frail and that they could die and I think that is one of the things that I think is fun about the show is you get the tension of what how scary it would be to be a normal person going up against a superhero who like it would be you horrified Yeah and one thing that Eric Kripke you who's the showrunner I don't know if we said that yet he was all about kind of making it like a cop show where it's like just about cops taking on these criminals who are actually the head cop so to speak and to like grounded in that and make it. And make it really just like the smallest cops the cops who aren't even real cops have to take out these like official top dogs over the wire was right we referenced a lot as we were starting to write the show and what it was actually I thought that there was kind of a reference in the comic itself yeah there's a way yeah I think it's something that we really kind of like like as we were plotting out the series like that the idea of these like like it's the guys in rooms listening on headphones and planting bugs it's about all the little steps it would take it I'll just go straight to like Iron Man's like bigger gauntlet showing up on a rocket you build to not say I don't love that moment I love great moment great moment great moment liar but how do you figure out where to show up because that's the that's what like that's what I don't oh. Shocking ragtime Can you guys please come back and do this again or so yeah luckily we have many projects. And I finally get a chance to talk to you about them and from microphone My guests are Evan Goldberg and so they wrote in The New projects one which we barely talk about as good boys the other is the boys which is on Amazon of course preacher and many other things are recording engineering at N.P.R. West so I see a call well the show is big by catch yourself in my flick biters associate producer I'm going to go get the superheroes that are trying. To catch up on past obsessed with treatment go to Case or deputy dot com on your smartphone the case for these mobile apps or subscribe to cast on i Tunes stitcher or if you listen to podcasts the treatment is produced and distributed by case here W. Santa Monica that. Bet. Sponsors include. A comedy with. A family secret. Starts today. Barbara. Live from N.P.R. News in Washington I'm Jack Speer almost 18 years after the 911 terror attacks a military court judge in Guantanamo Bay Cuba has set a trial date for collegiate Mohammad and 4 other men charged in that crime N.P.R.'s social Pfeifer has more the judge set a trial date of January 2021 although a number of other deadlines would have to be met for the trial to start then that includes the government turning over all evidence it's required to give defense attorneys and lawyers for the 5 defendants say.