Muslim groups would harbor terrorists. In december president ial candidate donald trump in his characteristic style declared that he wanted and would support, i quote, a total and complete shut down of muslims enteri the United States until our representativ es can figure out what is going on. This remark, which he presented as a written statement and d s since verbally supported, touch of a fear as some sought to distance themselves from what they felt was a provocative statement, even as the idea of some sort of religious litmus test for entry into the country was being bandied about. We have a great panel here this morning to talk about this idea of a religious litmus test for entry into the United States. To my immediate left is hahaan selim, the imam at the Islamic Center here in cedar rapids iowa. Next to him is jim leach from the university of iowa and also at the university of iowa. Welcome gentlemen. Jim welcome. Heather obviously the impetus for this papaicular show is groronded in some of trumps remarks about the moratorium of muslim immigration and visitation, but actually the idea of f religious litmus test for entry i io the country more broadly includes speech around the refusal of Syrian Refugees and others who have called for a block on visitors from nations who have what they would call radical elements in them, however they may define that radicalization. While these e y not overtly y saying the word muslim, they are using in some ways what i believe a sort of a coded language to identify particular groups of people in other countries. A question for you all to maybe talk about is, where do you think this rhetoric is coming from . We are in an election cycle and i can only imagine that the public figures are very aware of how their comments will be received. What is this that you think they are speaking to orr parts of the a arican public . Hassan i think that since the 9 11 events and even before that islam as a faith, and muslim as well, has been used for fear mongering and to promote fear to eventually gain some political points and credit, especially around election seasons. Therefor, myself as a muslim, as an imam and a leader of a Muslim Community here in the United States, i was the rhetoric started in the recent couple of months. It is something that we are getting used to as muslim communities here in the United States, at thats from my part. Jim id like to answer your question directly but before doing that let me mention that cedar rapids is a model Muslim Community. Heather yes it is. Jim the oldest mosque in north america. One that is really integrally brought into the mmunity. One of the aspects of the muslim faith is a great deal of emphasis on charity. People from this particular mosque have been very charitable to the community with active participation in community drives for hospitals, for community centers, libraries, et cetera. We, that have anything to do with cedar rapids, are immensely appreciative of the mosque and it. In terms of youruestion, it isnt something that emanates exactly frfr the political process but its been reflected in the political process. You have a mutually reinforcing set of concerns. With some understndab le reason the american ople are concerned about terrorism. On the hand, from the muslim perspective, its a very tiny percentage of people that are involved in thi circumstance and many muslims dont like the word Muslim Associated with the terrorism because they believe these are people hijacking a faith and are not being true to the faith. You have vocabulary that is coming in the dispute. If we lookokt American History, and i think well get into that and jeff might want to comment first but, on the whole america has had a long progression of welcoming other people. Then history. Let jeff respond on that jeff right, i think one of the problems being a historian is that you get frustrated with the kind of historical amnesia. Its a kind of professional hazard. Congressman leach referred to certain aberrations but stirring up hostility to religious minorities is not really an aberration, its really a part deeply embedded in american politics. Whenever i see these attacks on muslims i cant help but think about the very long, really dating from the eighteeeeforties right up to the election of John F Kennedy in nineteen sixty, of the political which pretty has been forgotten in american politics but it lasted right into my lifetime. Growing up in a small town in 4 texas, i really remember the antagonism toward John F Kennedy based on his catholic faith. This was not just a matter of bigotry, there were real concern about whether you could be a good catholic and a good american, that whether catholols would really respect the First Amendment, that whether catholics could go to public school, because they didnt, they were dissatisfied with them, wheeer they were going t tlearn to speak enenish because a lot of catholics were italian or polish speakers. Also the whole question of the First Amendment and the relationship of church and state. Ohn f kennedy, i are people i knew, a former congressm, i remember standing in the parking lot of the First Baptist church of stephenville. He was an old new deal democrat, he was a segregationis t of course but he was a really partisan democrat. He said, you know i just dont think i can vote for kennedy. I just dont think i can do it. It wasnt bigotry, it was real problems with the Roman Catholic religion. When John F Kennedy addressed the Houston Ministerial Alliance in nineteen sixty, this was a real turning point in American History when he explained how he could be an american and a catholic. I think that election was a real turning anticatholicism kind of disappeared, it evaporated. Kennedy carried texas, forty thousand, some people say stolen votes. Al smith got massacred in nineteen twenty eight when he ran i think there are analogies hehe, people are worried about how you could be a muslim and how you could be a good american. Those things have to be explained, we have to talk about them. I think thats what were doing here. Jim let me mention, i totally agree with jeff, but this large question is about the other, someone thats a little different. At the beginning of our history we killed many indians, took their land. We brought slavery to the united ates and treated people of a different color differently. We enticed chinese to come and help build the railroad infrastructur e and treated them very poorly. Then you have antisemitism, is not unknown in this country. In nineteen thirty nine, after World War Two had broken t on the continent we turned away a shop called the ms st. Louis. It german refugees from the holocaust. They were returned to europe, over half were lost in the holocaust. That is really aunpardonable circumstance. Thth during the war, World War Two that is, we incarcerated japanese americans. Many of whom were christian, many of whom were not. These are embarrassments in our history. Weve learned from them. Jeff mentions, and i of america is tolerance, particularly catholicism is now totally mainstream. I think it wont be long before islam will be but its going through a rough patch at the moment. Jeff i think mormonism too. You have mormonism, i thought we were going to have a mormonism when mitt romney was nominated because there is a lot of deeply rooted prejudice against mormons, and it didnt happen. Jim thats right. Jeff i was really surprised by this and encouraged by this. Heather theres hoho for us yet. Jeff there was some little fringes of it on right wing christian talk radio but not much, not much. It just didnt come up. Heather youve also seen historicacaly. J eff of coursrstheres a long history of antiimmigrant politics in america. This goes back. I think mark twain has an essay about why its a waste of time to read newspapers. He said he went back and read a newspaper in San Francisco in the eighteen fifties and guess what, theres a crime wave in the city, thered been some disasters, earthquakes and immigrants are taking americaca jobs. That, i think, is really more targeted to Spanish Speaking people. I think the real nastiness of the attacks by our own congressman steven king and also by donald trump, that mexican the kind of real, almost hatred of Spanish Speaking find that very disturbing. I wish there were more voices in the Republican Party speaking out against that. I think the issue of islam and the american muslims is a different issue really. I dont think the middle east are really. I think people are worried that some of them are going to be terrorists and they wont be good americans and so forth. The response to these forty thousand children and teenagers who showed up on the border as refugees from central american, this was horrifying to me. I think that if you want to talk about ethics or christianity, welcoming reregees, it seems to me to be a fundamental obligation of an ethical person. Heather well have to do another show on that. Jeff yeah, okay. Heather im going to pull this back around a little bit because one of the things that you about catholics was that idea of, can you as catholic hold certain areas in faith but still participate in civic discourse and have some sort of separation n tween the two. I think i hear quite a bit in again the rhetoric around, can a muslim hold fast the tenet of their faith but yet participate in civic discourse. I think sometimes we hear this conflation as people look at some of the rhetoricichat happens in the more radical or coopted areas of the islamic faith. They say, look at what theyre trust our in cedar rapids speak to a little bit about how. Hassan yeah. To answer this question we have to mention the estimates range, that the number of muslims in the United States is somewhere between five to twelve million american muslim. Thats quite a significant number, and its increasing. Its increasing by immigrants and the muslims number of american muslims who are already here are increasing because even despite what we are hearing, the rhetoric that we are hearing because of the e ections, muslims feel that they are welcome here, they feel safe, they feel free to actice their faith a a so there are conversation s like professor jeff mentions, that we will have to talk about. They might not be comfortable, we might not be comfortable having them right now but they will lead a good understandidi g of what islam is and who muslims are, and even there is a conversation that is taking place right now among the Muslim Community itself, the american Muslim Community, of what does an american islam look like, hat does it mean . We recently had the First AmericanMuslim Liberal Arts College that was a aredited. It is the first in the nation. I anticipate that the number will increase as demand of muslims receiving their traditional education in terms of islamic studies and so on and so forth, but at the same time also receiving the traditional liberal Arts Education that other students will receive in other universities around the country. Therefor, what this means again is that people will need to understand that islam teaches muslims to respecthe law and to live and to abide by theheaw of the country wherever you live, whether its europe, whether its the United States or the middle east. Muslims have the ability, been studying islam for the past twenty years if not more, and that is what the islamic. Sharia for example teaches us that muslims have to respect the law of the country in which they live. If theres any conflicts there is nothing in the teachings of islam that says that you have by force to change the law of the country in which you live. Here we have to be careful not to take groups like isis that does not even represent one percent of the Muslim Population of one point six billion person around the world. They do not really represent the mainstream understandin g of the teachings of islam, which again invites and encourages muslims to be od citizens, to be good participants of any community wherever again all we need to do is to look at t e example of cedar rapids, and many other examples around america. Cedar rapids might be significant because of the fact that weve had muslims since late eighteen hundred and early nineteen hundred. We have the first and the longest standing place of worship for muslims. We have the first muslim exclusive cemetery in the country and all of north america actually. These are all things that eventually the discussiowill unfold. Ventually people will get to know that these are the facts that we have at hand. Jim imam let me give you ann anecdote about some students from your country of egypt. I once was giving a talk at georgetown university. At the end of it a student from egypt raised his hand and said, congressman, important always just totod people, follow your passion, but i said, what do you think it is . This young student said, clearly its comparative religion. I said, why do you say that . You and you dont understand us, how can we get along . I thougug it was a very interesting answer. Intriguingly, possibly the first comparative religionist in the United States of america was thomas jefferson. Jefferson studied all the major religions in the world. He came to one conclusion which was extraordinary. He said, what matters most is not where where they conjoin. He then wrote about how they conjunction. Weve kind of gotten from that incredibly progressive view of religion. That was part of the model of the founders. Jeff one of the chapters of the book im working on now is comparing the way young people are taught religion in European Countries and in the United States. In most European Countries, not france, but in most european cououries, not in the United States, religion is what we would call the k12 curriculum. Ive been looking at text books in english and german schools and it pretty much is comparative religion. Thats really, unless youre in a confessional class in germany, you could be in a protestant or a catholic or an ethics class in german schools. Ethics is attended mostly muslims as nr as i can tell. What it does is give you place, theres a place to tetech comparative religions. We dont have that in our schools. In fact keeping religion out of the school is in my view a good thing. I dont think we could ever agree. If you can imagine the school boardd heather what should be taught . Jeff right, get that presbyterian out of there. It raises the issue of where we do talk about it. Were doing it on this program and there are Interfaith Councils but what about young people . What are young people taught . We teach it in history classes and in religion classes at the university of iowa but for our k12 students i wonder if we need to think about this. Heather where are the spaces in which a civil Public Discourse about religion can happen across the board . Question as we head into this, a loloof the Different Things that trumpmpas said will flare up for a while and get a lot of attention and then will die down. How do you think this continued conversation about religion and immigration and visitation to the United States. Do you think that this something thats going to keep coming up in american politics at least until the elections finish . What are your thoughts on. Jim i think wevvgot a long term problem. This is a very serious circumstance in world affairs. One of the things america is is, if you have a pwlicy that suggest that a religion should be used as a litmus test for immigratioio, youre really playing into the hands of the radicals on the other side. Youre setting be a center of intolerance. One of the Great Questions is how we approach this. Clearly there is a rational reason to have a vetting process of a more rigorous nature than has existed before. But if the country decrees itself to be again any muslim, were going to find two things happen. Were going to b battacked much more vigorously around the world and people will be able to get into this country one way or another. Our borders are porous no matter how much we might think theyre not. Secondly were going to have a hard time treating with the respect that we should the millions of peace loving to be bendininover backwards to treat in as welcoming a way as we possibly can. That doesnt mean that there may not be a problem or two that will arise. By the same token im personally convinced antagonism the greater the problem will be. Our approach has to be on the one hand humanitarian, but that humanitarian approach has to recognize that there are prudent steps that have to be taken within it. Also for those that are doubtful, that rorous opposition can produce counter productive results. Whether it be the attitudes that are now being moment about some of the statements being made in the american political process, this is not a trivial dimension. If we think were going to take on certain issues to want to cooperate with us if were perceived to be an anti Muslim Country . Nobody. Pragmatic military reasons, for very pragmatic defense reasons of our own homeland, were going to want to think this through deeper than the shallowness that is being reflected in the political process by some. Some are influencing othersyoure seeing comments froroleaders in both litical parties that are not helpful. Youre also seeing a few somewhat courageous comments. This is a time for people in public life reach for some of those higher angels in life and not simply regurgitate the lower angels that may exist. In the polls. Ff let me say one more thing about this, people often dont want to hear this because whehei say it some people will say that this is some kind of justification for terrorism or Something Like that. We aboututhe extent of the wars that we are waging in muslim countries. I dont know if its true b i saw it asserted that in twenty fifteen we dropped twenty three thousand bombs on muslim majority countries. Jim the presisint of the United States in the state of the union suggested ten thousand. Jeff well, i dont know what the figures are. Jim this is jeff but i do know this refugee crisis is partly of our own making. That little three year old boy that washed up on the shore of turkey was coming from kobane that we had bebe bombing. They weree running from our bombs. We have created. Senator clinton now wants to go to war on two fronts, in syria, against both isis and assad and more regime change. Until settlement in the muslim world, and i believe all the way from somalia to pakistan, were going to have endless trouble. Were fighting un winnable wars that dont have the support of the american people, that are creating a refugee crisis. We really need some leadership. Im sorry to say i dont see where its going to comemerom right nono but something has got to be done. Heather we have just another minute, i didnt know if you had another comment that you would like to put in briefly . Hassa n i like to look at it from a different perspective. Im really hopeful that all of whats happening can lead into discussions that again as i said earlier are uncomfortable but very important for us, at least as ourselels, who we are as american muslims, what we really believe in and where do we stand from all o whats taking place. These are all gooooconversation, the outcome will be hopeful. Heather good, good. Well, weve really just begun to scratch the surface of this issue in half an hour. This is nonoas we heard the first time in n r nations history that a group has been set apart and scrutinized for its religious belief or ethnicity. It is something we struggle with and will continue to struggle with as a country, as we balance diversity and our unity as People Living sie by side. I can think weall can agree that this is something thats not easily going to be quickly figured out bb instead will take w wrk of continuul dialog on the part of many. Id like to thank all of my panelists participation here this morning. It certainly was a good one. In addition to thanking i would like to thank you, our viewers this morning for watching us today. On bebelf of the Inter Religious Council of linn county, this is pastor heather hayes. Tune in next week as will continue on with more issue based discussion. Have a wonderful hello, everybody, thanks for joining us for financial perspectives from premier bob bruce, for the next