President Trump and impeachment remain unchanged N.P.R.'s Domanick Oman to narrow has more despite weeks of public hearings on impeachment American public opinion remains where it's been divided and partisan 48 percent of Americans oppose the impeachment of President Trump while 47 percent approve of it that is statistically unchanged from a month ago the last time the question was asked Meanwhile President Trump's approval rating is 42 percent pretty much exactly where it's been for the entirety of his presidency and 91 percent of Republicans approve of the job he's doing so the likelihood is this week the House led by Democrats will impeach the president and he will maintain if not solidify the support of his base to medical Monson are n.p.r. News Washington the future of Boeing 737 Max aircraft will be central today when Boeing's board of directors meets in Chicago N.P.R.'s David Schaper says the company is considering whether to reduce production of the airplane which has been grounded following deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia Boeing is still producing $42.00 max planes a month that is $737.00 assembly plant outside of Seattle even though the point has been grounded since last March after 2 deadly crashes a further reduction or temporarily halted production could result of thousands of employee furloughs or layoffs but the f.a.a. Suggests the $737.00 Max won't be certified to fly passengers again until mid February at the earliest N.P.R.'s David Schaper it's a high risk week for the French government as it tries to calm strikers anger against its proposal to overhaul the retirement system N.P.R.'s Eleanor Beardsley reports unions have called for huge protest marches tomorrow even though a union that usually cooperates with the government is calling for its members to strike Tuesday all are opposed to the new retirement age of 64 up from 62 Meanwhile millions of travelers could be held hostage if the transport strike runs through Christmas. Well didn't you because you don't know that they are told train drivers it was beneath them to keep people from their families during the holidays French train drivers have earned a kind of mystical status from resisting the Nazis and struggling for workers' rights a Christmas strike is not worthy of your history said the mayor Eleanor Beardsley n.p.r. News Paris the Supreme Court is reviewing seeing to hear a case from Boise Idaho over whether local governments can make it a crime for homeless people to sleep outside Boise wanted the justices to overturn a lower court's ruling for hitting authorities from prosecuting homeless people for staying outside if a bed at the emergency shelter is not available all street is trading higher at this hour the Nasdaq is up 1 point one percent this is n.p.r. News from Washington good morning it's 9 o 4 I'm will last and my are with k.c. Oh you know safety concerns over a mountain highway that links the Santa Barbara area to the Santa Ana's Valley will be the focus of a meeting tonight in solving k.c.l. Used John Palminteri has more concerns about safety and Highway 154 said Marco's past have led to a meeting tonight in solving set of every county Association of government created a committee to address safety concerns along San Marcos for us that stretch of highway 154 from Santa Barbara to I want to walk on the other end of the city and as valley the morning starts at 630 with maps and government officials talking about safety improvements on Highway 154 those attending can point out areas of concern among the biggest concern of speed drowsy drivers distracted drivers and drunk drivers the main meeting begins at 7 o'clock all this takes place the Veterans Memorial Building on mission drive in Santa Barbara John Palminteri k.c.a.l. You news California is likely to have produced fewer new homes this year than it did last year despite a recent uptick in construction that's according to a. Recent report from the Construction Industry Research Board the state did see a 17 percent jump in new home permits in October compared with a year ago but overall housing production remains down by about 10 percent this year according to Dan Dunmore of the California building industry association the price to deliver for a product for a home continues to go up in cost mostly because of how long it takes us to build and then how many builtin fees from local government are included in each of our products increasing the state's housing supply was $1.00 of Governor given new sums top campaign promises a wildfire which at one point forced thousands of evacuees in Santa Barbara County is now fully contained like a fire started Nov 25th in the mountains above Santa Barbara Near East Camino c.l.o. The fire did not burn any homes and the cause of that fire remains under investigation it's 9 o 6 You're listening to k.c.a.l. You support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. 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You are Boston I'm Meghna truck Robertie and this is on point never mind walking and chewing gum at the same time as Democrats and the president have been insisting they're capable of this week it is all impeachment all the time the House will debate and take a full floor vote the White House and both parties in Congress especially the Senate are calculating next steps so this hour on point will take stock of the big week ahead in Washington and a little later this hour we'll also talk to Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bennett so you can join us will you be watching the House vote expected on Wednesday or Thursday What's your take on how Senator Mitch McConnell says he'll run an impeachment trial in the Senate versus Senator Chuck Schumer's request for a witness's wrote 180-423-8255 that's 80423 talk you can also join us any time at on point Radio dot org or Twitter and Facebook and on point radio Well joining me today from Washington is Paul Reed White House correspondent for c.b.s. News focusing on the Justice Department and legal affairs as well Paul it's good to have you on thrilled to be here also with us is Catherine Tully McManus She covers Congress and in particular congressional leadership for c.q. Roll call Katherine welcome to on point thank you so 1st of all Katherine let me start with you and let's just dive right into the House debate and vote that could come as soon as Wednesday what do we expect there. So the plan is for the full House to vote on Wednesday on the articles of impeachment the rules for the debate and the vote will be laid out Tuesday in the House Rules Committee I'm so there's still one more committee that the. Articles of Impeachment have to go through but that is a Democrat like Committee and they really just outlining how many hours of to be in who controls the time and then what we will likely also see is potentially impeachment managers named which are House lawmakers who act as prosecutors when the case goes to the Senate and Paula do we know at all who some of those possible names might be there have been some names that have been floated representative is one name that has been floated but at this point it's not clear and now Speaker Nancy Pelosi she has a lot of leeway in terms of who she selects how many she selects and I know there has been a big push within the Democratic Party for diversity then the question is Well what does that mean is that making sure you have an even balance of men and women people different races or is it more sort of geo political diversity still a lot of open questions Ok So talk to me Paul about how I mean the vote itself is expected to go are there any wavering Democrats it does not appear at this point that there is any doubt that they are going to approve these 2 articles of impeachment it is expected that they will both be approved and I've been focusing more on the White House's strategy because they are completely they're not even look at the House vote at this point they are focused more now on a likely Senate trial there was one big development of course over over the weekend which is a representative from New Jersey a district where Trump is quite popular a Democrat Jeff and Drew he has decided he's going to switch parties to the Republican Party he's been sort of really the lone critic of the impeachment process but we're hearing from our sources that he may wait. You switch parties until after the impeachment vote because the president has been driving this decision wants him to wait until after the impeachment vote so that he can vote no as a Democrat Ok So Catherine did you want to comment on a yeah there's definitely been one of the Republican talking points has been that the bipartisan vote on impeachment was against when they approved the rules and procedures for what how this impeachment inquiry would be governed so the committee rules and things like that and they did have Democrats vote against those rules and that has been a big Republican talking point and I do think that Republicans in the president would like Chaffin to to have a d. Next to his name when he votes no Ok so presuming some grand surprise doesn't happen between now and Wednesday I'm hearing both of you say it's pretty safe to assume that these articles of and she ph meant will be voted on on Wednesday in the full was theirs in the full House and then will pass and could be transmitted thereafter to the Senate right Paul is that what I'm hearing exactly no we don't expect the Senate trial to get underway until early early next year but the big question right now is what will that look out look like and I've spoken to sources I know that the president's top lawyer the president's top legislative aide they will be meeting this week with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to talk about what their best strategy is for trial now some Democrats have cried foul over the president's lawyers are coordinating with g.o.p. Leadership but they're going to continue to work together to figure out the rules the timing and the approach that they want to take Ok so let's talk more about that in particular because on Sunday just yesterday my Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer basically put out a request a list of demands however you want to look at it on how Democrats in the Senate would like the Senate trial to be run specifically asking for a witness. So Catherine can you tell us more about what Schumer once yes sure put out this letter saying that he would like relevant witnesses to appear in the Senate trial including national security advisor John Bolton and current acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney this is an interesting request especially we have not heard from Majority Leader McConnell yet on how he will respond to this request because having witnesses in the Senate opens the door for having witnesses who. Prove the Democrats point as opposed to defend the president's position and that can complicate things for the Republicans in the Senate so Poll talk about this with us because I haven't heard a peep from a public peep from Senator Mitch McConnell that he would be open to having witnesses in his Senate run trial here especially the ones as Katherine is saying the Democrats would like to hear from Mick Mulvaney John Bolton Robert Blair none of these folks testified before the House subcommittees to begin with that's right I know from speaking to sources close to Mulvey me he's not going to cooperate in less the White House tells him to otherwise he would take a separate legal challenge based on his role as acting chief of staff to determine whether he can be compelled to testify but Mitch McConnell isn't a tricky spot here because the president has been quite clear that he would like to have a show he wants to call witnesses and the witness list that he has is quite something it's Adam Schiff it's Hunter Biden it's Joe Biden it's a lot of different folks that he wants to put on the stand because he believes the House process is not fair his side has not been heard but Mitch McConnell and other officials inside the White House they believe that when it comes to the president's defense less is more but so far they have not been able to convince the president of this so what you are likely to see is that this will get underway without a clear commitment on witnesses because one of the things that is interesting about the impeachment process in the Senate is is there is some flexibility within it there is a little bit of decide as you go and the hope is that the president will see the presentations will see the process is more fair to him in the g.o.p. Led Senate and then perhaps he may back off of this desire to to try to call former Vice President Joe Biden which of course is something unprecedented unlikely wind up in the court so that that's the strategy right now but Mitch McConnell is sending the president some not so subtle hints in his press conference that he wants this over with fast Ok So Paula tell me say the. Because of what you just said that Senator McConnell says no we're going to run the Senate trial with no witnesses we're just going to have you know the the counsel's if I can call them that from either side present their cases to the Senate here I mean is that a nonstarter for Democrats I mean I'm seeing some rumblings of like if that happens if she were just sorry if if McConnell decides to go that way maybe Nancy Pelosi Speaker Pelosi in the House won't transmit. The impeachment proceedings to the Senate sure it's possible but I think House Democrats have to know that the witnesses that they're talking about for example former national security adviser John Bolton yet they've tried to call him his case that question about whether he can be compelled that is currently tied up in the courts a question that will likely go to the Supreme Court whether you can be compelled to testify when the White House tries to block you do they want to wait months for a former national security adviser John Bolton again as I said Mick Mulvaney he's willing to take this question to the courts at his his attorneys they believe quite firmly that of executive privilege or any of these privileges apply to one person in addition to the president it's Mick Mulvaney So they want to die on that hill right and not transmit Ok but I think everyone understands that realistically though these particular witnesses are likely to be tied up in court for quite some time before you get an answer on whether they can either cooperate no no I hear what you're saying Paula but Catherine I mean on this show over the past several weeks we've had folks come on and say the proceedings the Democrats have were rushed through this too fast and that perhaps this is this an opportunity again I mean who knows this is like 4 dimensional chess right now but but if this could be an opportunity for them to to pass article and impeachment in the house but not transmit it to the Senate and slow things down and actually do let things work through the courts so House Democrats this was on their radar when they set the pace of this impeachment and when they scheduled all of these hearings and now a vote ahead of the holiday recess. Adam Schiff the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee he said very explicitly. During the introduction of the articles of impeachment that they were not going to wait for the courts and that the courts. Would not be a deterrent for them even though they would like to hear from these witnesses they were not going to hold off on moving forward and wait for months and months for decisions to be made about individual witnesses however that is also an element that is part of the argument of Republicans of the pace of this that this should be decided by the 3rd branch of government the judicial system and they say the Democrats are steam rolling through that Paul what do you think about that. Again I think when you look at the g.o.p. Leadership on the Senate side they've been really clear they want this over with they want this to just stick to the Democrats they don't want to be seen as dragging this out any longer they want to get through this they're confident the president will not be removed and then they want to appear as the party that's pivoting back to looking at trade prescription drug prices and health care ahead of 2020 I don't see were too many people have the incentive to dig in and really go through a more comprehensive process and I actually asked Nancy Pelosi about this maybe a week ago at the Kennedy Center Honors on the red carpet I said look what do you say to people who argue that you're moving too fast and she dismissed the criticism and said that you know they're doing exactly what they need to do so I just don't see the incentive for anyone to drag this out any longer well run or Go ahead Catherine quickly center Republicans are also already saying that they know the outcome and that they don't need to hear from witnesses because they know where their vote for right well to that point got comments on our website Brian 4000 says instead of spending all this time on an impeachment that will not get through the Senate I would rather the Democrats had turned the phone calls into a campaign issue and put it to voters in the election so folks. What do you think about that as the House is poised to take a full floor vote on impeachment this week and then it's on to the Senate it's 18438255 it's 80423 tough We'll be back this is on point. Hi I'm David Brancaccio host of the Marketplace Morning Report I think I know something about you. And I guess curious about the world you're concerned about what's going on so you tune in to this public radio station the way this news service can continue as with your financial contribution right now give it out to get a future tax deduction and to ensure that your public radio station can thrive in the news here's how you do make your end of the gift year now at k.c.l. You dot org. This is n.p.r. For the California coast k.c.l. You Public Radio coming up on 920 and you are listening to on point which continues until 11 o'clock right here on k.c.a.l. You. Support for on point comes from the listeners of Boston in your n.p.r. Station from The Music Emporium guitar sellers for 50 years celebrating the enduring presence of music made on the front porch and center stage you can learn more at the Music dot com and new offering a personalized weight loss program based on a cognitive behavioral approach with the goal of losing weight and keeping it off for good learn more at noon and oh oh. This is on point and Magna Charta Barty we're talking about what is going to be a nother big week in the news ahead and historic week without a doubt as the House is poised to take a full floor vote on impeachment I'm joined today by polar regions White House correspondent for c.b.s. News focusing on justice and legal affairs Kathryn telling McManus also joins us she covers Congress and in particular congressional leadership for c.q. Roll call and we want to hear from you What's your question about this big week in the news about how the impeachment vote will be handled in the House and what might happen when it moves to the Senate we're at 180-423-8255 that's 80423 talk let's go to Steve who's calling from Dayton Ohio Steve you're on the air . I question is if this process continues on in the Senate does it end up quitting and then the quote come back and say that witnesses that are not justifying are in fact need to be compelled to justify and respond to the subpoenas can they really open the impeachment inquiry. Steve thank you for your call Paula give an answer for that I don't know because they'd already gone through and voted to acquit I guess it also depends how they how they sort of result things in the Senate I would say like so many things in this administration we have a question of 1st impression would likely if they wanted to pursue it right because there's a legal question can you I don't know that would probably be something the Supreme Court may have to look at unless there's a will I don't know about that just completely bars that but then there's the political calculation to right because these cases may not resolve until April potentially an end of the Supreme Court's term do you really want to be reopening impeachment inquiry in the summer and of a presidential election that's a political calculation let's go and if you want to jump in there some House Democrats have brought up the potential You can impeach a president more than once so if those witnesses would be relevant to a different line of attack in impeachment there are some House Democrats that are open to that I would say they are definitely not the majority but is one option. Well what. This week for. Let's go to Claire who's calling from Madison was cause and clear you're on the air oh my primary. There you go to everything you ladies have been discussing in my opinion is exactly why all the polls are showing the country virtually split down the middle on this issue right now what we've had so far is a half of the trial we've had no defense of any sort other than bloviating from the Trump administration we've got no documents from them no witnesses so people are waiting to hear from Trump with some facts which he obviously doesn't want us to know which implies he's hiding something but it's such a mess and we we need answers from Bolton and most any. Well Claire thank you for your call because Claire brings up a couple of things and let's dig into them 1st of all Paula about Claire's observation that the president has essentially brought no defense whatsoever no witnesses etc That just reminds me of. I'm thinking about the New York Times. Editorial from a couple of days ago last week where this is according to The Times The Times editorial board saw sees that the president's approach to to these impeachment proceedings as near Monday arc ical because he feels like he doesn't have to offer any kind of defense what do you think about that well it's think that Spot on I mean we argue that the president has not provided anything he would argue that he gave us a transcript of his call and it was perfect well Ok that was a partial transcript of the call and it was not perfect if you look at this even people within his own administration have provided evidence suggesting that there was a larger plan to pressure a foreign government to help the president his chances in an upcoming election there isn't a great defense to those allegations and that's why the White House strategy has been to just refused to cooperate refused to give documents I refused to allow witnesses to participate and now the president to speak directly to voters with his defense which for a while was no quid pro quo and then when more evidence came out that was modified to be no quo and then it kind of came out to be some version of So what if I did so he has not really been consistent in his own messaging which is I think part of why you're seeing in the polls an increase in the support for it peacemakers he has not been able to put forth a defense not just him this is the White House at large I'm there every day and I struggle to find people who can provide a coherent explanation for certain events there does not seem to be a coordinated communications plan even when they brought on additional people Pam Bondi the former attorney general Florida issues was to help. I handled the communicating during impeachment her 1st interview on c.b.s. She didn't have a clear view of the facts she didn't know who the ambassador to the you what u.k. Was a c.s. You mean to the United a European Union verses Ukraine so there was really just not been a very impressive defense coming out of the White House and that's what you're seeing reflected in the polls but indeed but you also see reflected that if it's not an impressive defense verging on no defense it has worked is to quite stymie the proceedings I mean Catherine Catherine what do you think about that absolutely so it puts Congress in a very interesting position because on one hand. The trumpet ministration and president himself were given the opportunity to participate in the Judiciary Committee proceed ings and so that and they opted not to they said no we will not provide witnesses we will not send anyone to sit and defend the president's actions however at the same time House Republicans on that panel were continually saying hey we didn't get a minority witness to. The witnesses that we wanted to bring in to defend the president and that is such an interesting divide because the witnesses they would have wanted to bring in were not white house witnesses to defend the president on the facts they would have been. 200 buy in and other people vain and so it has created this tension where the White House is not providing the information and Republicans in the House are saying hey we're not being allowed to prevent our side of the story right well so clear also brought up the fact that there hasn't been any sort of major swing in the polls I want to talk about one of the most recent polls to come out that that got a lot of folks' attention including the president he lashed out against it this was the Fox News poll from just over the weekend here saying that 40 according to Fox News in its latest poll 41 percent of people they polled said the president should not be impeached 4 percent said the president should be impeached but not removed and 50 percent said impeached and removed it's actually mean while those numbers might seem kind of eye opening there's hardly any shift from Fox's late October polling to now So Paul what do you think about that that's what we've seen over the past several weeks most people have a lot of fatigue over in peach meant they are kind. Sick of it blankets the airwaves Yuri's my air waves and people just have a t.v. They have their opinion and right now it's just well how long before people turn on House Democrats for example for dragging this out before their sentiment shift Still why aren't you doing more to help us it appears that people's opinions of what transpired here are pretty ingrained in people overall I think it's less really having a strong opinion and more my experience talking to voters just fatigue with the whole process so it's not like they were really dialed into the most recent report and found that detail that finally just shifted has shifted their their allegiance the other way but if you dig into the into the numbers a little bit Catherine I mean 1st of all another way to look at it is when you when you add that let me just show you the numbers right when you add that that 50 plus 4 you get 54 percent of Americans according to Fox News saying that the president should be impeached but but as we dig even further down apparently there's a in this poll there's a 16 point margin where voters are more likely to say that Republicans are simply protecting the president whether or not they truly believe what he did was impeachable and what do you make of that. I think one of the really interesting things in this poll is that the 4 percent number who would like to see impeachment the house but not removal in the Senate to only have 4 percent of the population be happy with what is right now the most likely outcome that just shows you how dissatisfied everyone is with this process and the fatigue is very real and people are tired of hearing about it and would like to hear more about the issues that are front and center for example on the campaign trail health care the economy jobs etc But 4 percent is a tiny tiny number and to have those be the people who would like to see what is ultimately going to happen is demoralizing for a run on each side well let's go to Steve who's calling from Glastonbury Connecticut Steve you're on the air oh and folks nice to talk to you today. You know there's such a microscopic approach to this but I'm beginning to wonder if we're missing the bigger picture and me and because the Senate is Republican controlled they're going to vote them out anyway they're going to they're going to allow the articles of impeachment to go through so to me it looks as if the Democratic Party is simply trying to get this on record. So that when the 2020 a lecture has come around they can pull these pieces of paper out and say why should we elect you look you have 2 articles of impeachment against you there is a lot of meat and content that's been discussed just in the last 10 minutes things that have to do with innocent until proven guilty. When you talked with the woman who mentioned it it's like half a trial yeah it is kind of like the grand jury I served on a grand jury I know what that's about all the facts are being put together so they can present a case they've presented their case they've they've they've created the basic documents for the beginning of this process he is innocent until proven guilty if you want to hang on to these things as evidence at the time of the 2020 Alexion that makes perfect sense but I don't think that dissecting it any deeper than that is helping the American people whatsoever will Steve thank you for your call Paul of what do you think you know it's an apt analogy the grand jury is the house but then we move into the Senate the idea that this is similar to an average group of jurors I think that's just not true because most churches are not depending on the to help them campaign for reelection so the argument that any of these jurors in the centers in the Senate are impartial this is not realistic it's not the where we are in the process we kind of already know that's why we know the outcome right he has the majority in the Senate so you before they officially started like well there's no there's no reason that they'll they'll remove them but in terms of delving into the details look for me I cover the White House for my colleague here you cover the Hill these are jobs who are job is to cover the day in and day out process this is one of the most significant things that the country can do it's a very solemn responsibility for Congress and it's enormous for the White House the implications for him for his agenda we do have to cover it day in and day out I know there is fatigue but this is an important process and certainly certainly newsworthy and it's not for us to judge what is and is not important certainly new . Where the is under playing it I mean if we're on this this is historic this is only happened a tiny handful of times in the history of this nation but I want to just get the voices through tape of some of the folks in Congress who are dealing with this issue as we speak and what they've been saying in recent days so 1st of all here's Republican Senator Lindsey Graham he was on C.B.S.'s Face the Nation yesterday saying he has heard enough to know which way he's going to vote when the Senate has or less likely to have its trial on impeachment and I'm not trying to hide the fact that I have disdain for the accusations in the process so I don't need any witnesses the president can make a request to call witnesses they can make a record request or call my pants and Pompei o and Joe Biden 100 I am ready to vote on the underlying articles I don't really need to hear a lot of witnesses that Senator Graham saying doesn't matter what happens in the trial he knows how he's going to vote I should say several Democrats have also said something similar but there's been a lot of attention being paid and we've talked about it here to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell talking about how there's going to be no difference between how he runs a Senate trial and what the White House wants Here's Senator Ted Cruz Texas Republican on A.B.C.'s This Week yesterday saying there's nothing wrong or unusual about that senators are not required like jurors in a criminal trial to be sequestered not to talk to anyone not to court if there's no prohibition and by the way past trial if you look at the Clinton impeachment trials that Senate Democrats were all talking with the Clinton White House you look at this impeachment trial the House Democrats are all talking with the Senate Democrats these this remains a political process. And we got some reaction here from Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown a Democrat on c.n.n. State of the Union this weekend saying that he is disappointed with this approach from his g.o.p. Colleagues for the leader of the United States Senate Mitch McConnell who say he scored 80 with the White House to make sure he's not convicted and removed as I just did it really is part of the See No Evil Hear No Evil One so disappointing my colleagues is see no evil hear no evil attitude Catherine how different is or is it all that different Senator McConnell's approach to what Democrats did during the impeachment of President Clinton Well I think it's in poor into understand that McConnell's coordination with the White House has been pretty much the plan all along and actually it is something that. Senate Republicans would like to see more often not just on piecemeal but on rethink getting on the same page with the White House for Senate Republicans is a daily challenge they are sometimes announcing priorities for the week or priorities going ahead on legislative issues are now saying that they've come to a deal on something only to have that progress thwarted by the White House or the president saying just kidding that's not the deal that I want so by announcing this coordination ahead of time it does put the pressure on the White House to then stick to the story Paula read I'm going to have a chance to answer that but also we've got 2 minutes left I want to hear a little bit about your conversation with Rudy Giuliani Well Giuliani was at the White House for about 2 hours on Friday which is quite a surprise because not only is he central in the events leading up to impeachment but he's also under investigation by the Justice Department the trump justice department he remains one of the president's personal attorneys but a branch of the White House for 2 hours on that historic day now though is that was pretty surprising so I gave McCollum We talked for a little while and he told me that he's not going to discuss exactly what he and the president discussed but he said look the president is not too down about this he told me one funny quote he says he has quote the strength you would have when you're an innocent man like me or surf referring to Chile Ani and I asked I asked the mayor if he wanted to participate in a Senate trial he said that he would love to participate in a Senate trial if he was asked he acknowledges he they're still not quite sure what exactly they're going to do there but he said that particularly his cross-examination skills would come in handy but didn't really seem to acknowledge in any way his role and how key he is in a lot of the evidence against his client but look he continues to be a member of the president's team the president believes that he brings a gravitas to his defense and Giuliani just came back from a trip to you crowd is going to ask you this bread. It's full of stuff they have the right I'm told briefcase full of stuff and I pressed him on that I thought that was hyperbole I was like really a briefcase and he caught defense of he told me the exact story went to Indiana to purchase this roller bag so would take him at his word that he would not reveal if he actually shared any of this evidence out with the president so I'm actually going to be at an event with the president shortly and have a chance to ask him that if he if he has shared any of this evidence that he gathered with the president what they plan to do with it well Paula read White House correspondent for c.b.s. News focusing on the Justice Department Legal Affairs Paula always great to have you thank you thank you and Katherine tell you McManus who covers Congress and the congressional leadership in particular for c.q. Roll Call it was great to have you as well Catherine thank you so much thank you when we come back we'll talk with presidential hopeful Senator Michael Bennet plus your question from where at 143-8255 this is on point. K.c.l. You programming is made possible by contributing members and in part by Santa Barbara revels presenting the Christmas revels of the nation celebration of the winter solstice as Santa Barbara tradition this year's show was set in Renaissance Italy and follows a troop of. Performers as they attempt to secure a spot performing in Venice as annual festival of the Fishes resulting in court intrigue and comedic chaos 3 performances only December 21st and 22nd at the Globe Theatre in fell at dot org. 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This is on point a magnet talk about 80 Michael Bennett senator of Colorado is still in the race for the Democratic nomination for president he set his sights on New Hampshire and he's going all in he's polling a bit low and he hasn't been on the debate stage since July but on the other hand he's outlasted some other previous Democratic hopefuls who had a lot more name recognition and a lot more money remember and remember when Representative betterer Harkin California senator Komla Harris were in the race but the question now is is Michael been it's moderate message being crowded out by other camp other candidates with a lot more name recognition again and money like Senator Amy Klobuchar Shahrir mayor to judge or Vice President Joe Biden so we're going to talk to Senator Bennett about this right now and what's your question for him at 180-423-8255 that's 843 talk you can also find us on Twitter and Facebook at on point radio and Colorado Senator Michael Bennet joins us now Senator Bennett welcome to the program thanks for having me so 1st of all give us give us this the state of the campaign right now how's it going and where are you focusing your efforts or focusing our efforts in New Hampshire although we've got a great team and I were the 2 working hard there as well I built my campaign to last until people were actually starting to make up their mind and until people actually started to vote and what I'd say is the state of the campaign is more open today than it was 6 weeks ago than it was 6 months ago and then it was a year ago people in these early states quite rightly are trying to figure out who the right candidate is to be dull Trump and I think their assessment of the front runners is that they're worried that they won't be able to beat Donald Trump and that's why I've remained in the race I think it's critical for us to nominate somebody who can win in purple states and be done for up and make him a one term president so tell me more than a what what you're hearing specifically since you're all in on New Hampshire what you're hearing. From those those primary voters about how deep that concern is it's very very deep I mean you know I wish Joe Biden well in everything that he does I think he's done an amazing event of good work for this country but I think what I'm hearing in New Hampshire is people are ready for a new generation of leadership I think they are concerned that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren's it illogical commitments are ones that won't travel very well from the East Coast. And every day that passes there are actually more undecided voters so we're going to make a big push here we'll try to raise some money this month and get it on the air and New Hampshire and in the meantime I'm going to do 50 town halls in the hope that I might be able to catch on the way my friend John McCain and others have done in New Hampshire in the past so I wonder then Senator Bennett if if you'd be willing to be vocal critic vocally critical of the Democratic Party as a whole and how it structures the primary season and also say the rules around who makes it to a debate stage because if what you're saying is fundamentally true that what voters are truly concerned about is who Democratic voters are concerned about is who could beat the president and yet the whole system in the primaries seems to be built around producing a candidate or a nominee that may not be that person don't do it don't you have a fundamental problem there's no question about it I mean 1st of all what I am saying is fundamentally true and. My daughter Caroline said to me once stead when I was thinking about running for president she said if you run in and tell the truth and you lose no one can follow you for it and I said well that's good Caroline because there's really no other reason for me to run and I don't think there's any other way for me to win I think it does point up how incredibly ridiculous and counterproductive the d.n.c. Debate rules used to be I used to complain about them and I thought I was completely self-serving when I was complaining about and now I think this you know . For the sake of the party for the country they should change the rules that they have this is Posterous and ask any reporters covering New Hampshire Iowa and they'll tell you what I just said which is people have not made up their minds in fact they're farther away from make up their minds today than they have been which is why the idea that the d.n.c. Would prematurely Cleave people off the debate stage make it harder for them to raise money if they're not celebrity candidates I think in the end as and serve the party terribly well I see a lot of weekend on airplanes reading a copy of Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail Hunter s. Thompson account of the $72.00 election which a friend of mine gave me and it's like we can't learn a lesson the same lesson over and over again which is these races are completely on uncertain until voters go to the voting booths and think with Donald Trump in the White House that only heightens the uncertainty in just saying Well Senator Bennett I'm wondering obviously you see yourself as quite a different candidate from Senator Elizabeth Warren or Senator Bernie Sanders but how do you see you define you differentiate yourself and what you might offer from Senator Amy Klobuchar or Mayor people to judge well I think with Mayor Pete we just have vastly different experience and we both started out at the local level but my school district had a budget that was 3 times the size of near peach town and I've been in the Senate for 10 years since then which is enough time to understand how to get some things done but also what the nature of the corruption in Washington really is and what we really have to do to overcome it as a as a country you know we're not going to fix this in Washington Washington is not going to fix itself we have to build a constituency for change in this country to address issues like climate change and broke and close over a broken Washington d.c. I think that's going to be very hard for somebody from the outside. Understander somebody with that you know little experience in national politics. I think with Amy we just have different experiences before coming to the Senate our politics are similar but I was a school superintendent. Also a lawyer she was a prosecuting attorney and in Minnesota I think the experience of being a superintendent of a major urban school district in this country 95000 kids most of whom are kids of color most of whom are kids living in poverty gives a person a sense of the profound injustice that exists in our society today that this is not a political game for most people that live in the country that we're living at a time when we've had 50 years of economic mobility for most people in the United States so they can't afford some combination of housing health care higher education or early childhood education for the parents that I once worked for in the Denver public schools you know they're they're killing themselves and no matter what they do they cannot get their kids out of poverty so I think I just have a vastly different set of experiences in the people that are running and therefore a vastly different perspective about what the nature of the kind of as I said earlier the corruption in our system and what we have to do to overcome it and by the way this includes 2 wars that we have fought with for the last 20 years with absolutely no accountability to the American people. Which have been a futile exercise isn't. And should never have been started or never never been never lasted 20 years and never I hope will never be repeated well no accountability and as you well know according to The Washington Post stunning series of investigative pieces at a campaign of. Mr Ting it misinformation even outright lies the American people it's it's absolutely staggering when you read. I read all 6 of those articles over the weekend and you know people say well why have people lost faith in our government I mean my God you know when you see something like that there's a reason why people have lost faith and there's a reason why they decided to send a reality t.v. Star to Washington to blow the place up and the question before us now is whether that's good enough for the country is that good enough for our kids and our grandkids and America's place in the world I don't think it is which is why we have to do everything we can to make this guy one term president figure out how to inject some accountability back into our systems overcome the special interests and learn how to govern our country again that's what we have to do well had you been on the debate stage for the past several Democratic debates folks would have had a chance to see so how you differentiate yourself or or more specifics about your particular plans and policies should you become the nominee here so let me let me just ask you what's your take on sort of the the big sweeping bold ideas or are the plans they coming from Senator Senator Warren Senator. Sanders about Medicare for All right I actually think people can go to Michael Bennett dot com and read my plans I think that my plans cohere in a way that their plans don't when I think about 10 years of town halls and Colorado which by the way is a state that's exactly a 3rd Democratic and a 3rd Republican and 3rd independent I think about people you know saying we can't afford a middle class life because we can't afford housing health care higher education early childhood education that's what my plans are focused on you know the American Family Act which I wrote was sure Brown several years ago that bill alone would cut childhood poverty by 40 percent in one year it would end $2.00 a day poverty for kids living in America which is a disgrace that this country. Persists and. You know I'd rather cut childhood poverty in one year than spend the next 10 years fighting a losing battle for Medicare for all you know I understand Bernie and Elizabeth actually because it is a logical Mintz much more recent to this than Bernie's But Bernie has been kid minute to this since 1970 and I understand and respect is it a logical commitment to it I do not want to spend the next 10 years fighting a losing battle for Medicare for all when we could dramatically dramatically reduce child poverty in this country when we could start to work to improve our education system so that we're actually liberating kids from their economic circumstances instead of shackling to them which is what we're doing today which is why Bernie's promise and Elizabeth's promise of free college is really so irrelevant what we need in this country is free preschool not free college and we've got to figure out how to take the 70 percent of kids who graduate from high school and never can earn anything but the minimum wage and put them in the position to earn a living wage and I'd like to spend the next 10 years addressing climate change and those things are not going to be able to be addressed if we continue to lose elections to climate deniers and we continue to lose elections in purple states I do not believe my set of proposals or a moderate set of proposals I think there are incredibly progressive set of proposed proposals that can unite not just the Democratic base but some of the 9000000 people that voted twice for Barack Obama and once for Donald Trump and I think that's the big difference between having run in Colorado twice and having run in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts or having run in Vermont Well you got a comment here on Facebook Justin Barney says I actually like Senator Bennett his proposal of lowering the age of Medicare eligibility to 50 and increasing subsidies to the Affordable Care Act is something that a Democratic controlled Congress could pass purely through reconciliation what do you think about that well I appreciate just saying he actually likes me. And like he might be surprised by that but look we've got. There are there are a number of ways to skin the cat and universal coverage that does not don't require us to make private insurance illegal in the country and by the way I'm not carrying a brief for the private insurance companies of Bernie we're here you might say Michael why are you defending the private insurance companies I'm not I could care less I'm defending the need to get to universal health care in this country as quickly as we can and I do not think you're going to persuade the American people to give up their choice of mine private insurance if they want it 90 percent of people in Massachusetts I saw in a recent poll don't want to give up that choice and they certainly don't want to give it up for the privilege of paying $31.00 trillion dollars in new taxes which is what Bernie and Elizabeth proposed a modified version of that I have proposed I think we could cover everybody in America in 3 years with my plan called Medicare x. Which is a public option that would be available to everybody starting and ruler is and then moving over to everybody else over the course of 3 years and one thing we haven't talked about much on the debate stage or anything else is the cost of health care which frankly is the real problem in America and. The fact that we're spending twice as much as any other industrialized country in the world is spending and getting a worse result. Should suggest there's a huge opportunity here for us to improve the lives of the American people and. Put us in the position of having the federal government spend less money on health care and more money on the next generation of Americans who have been completely short changed over the last 30 years well just as a point Senator but as you well know Senator Warren would say You mentioned the the major new taxes that would come with a Medicare for all plan assure her camp has been saying very clearly in her plans is very clearly those costs would be maad would be mitigated by the overall reduced cost that would that would be in the laps of the average American family that those cars would be radically reduced just I agree that she I agree that she says that but empty promises are not going to get us where. We need to be all that's going to create is more cynicism about our political system when that's what we need the least let's just take a quick call you by the way you just need to ask the voters of Vermont I mean they tried to pass it up there Bernie's home state and they rejected it because they were not going to pay a 10 percent increase in taxes. And the business is going to pay an 11 percent increase in taxes it's the reason it was rejected in Colorado $8020.00 and why California couldn't even get it started so I'm one persuaded by her math Ok well but not not on persuaded the need for us to get to universal health care would which we desperately have to do I was going to go to a call here but I'll just borrow the caller Jim's question because we're running out of time here but Jim wants to know I'm sorry I think that's quite right if you want to know what's your plan for attacking the national debt it's a great question. And I think it's something that we've heard incredibly small amounts from we have got to stop doing what we're doing 1st of all so since 2001 we've borrowed 5 trillion dollars from the Chinese for the privilege of giving the richest people in America tax cuts that is absurd and all that's done is increase the income inequality that we've had we've spent $5.00 trillion dollars 20 years of wars in the Middle East which we now learn from the World College in the case of Iraq was a war that only Iran won in the case of Afghanistan has been a disaster from beginning to end and we need to stop doing that we've got to reduce the health care costs in this country because as I said we're spending twice as much as any other industrialized country in the world I think if we start to do those things we can big begin to dig ourselves out of a very unfortunate situation we're in there are people in this campaign are saying that deficits don't matter you know I disagree with that we're a 0 percent interest rates when they go back to a normal level of like 4 percent we're going to be spending all our money and interest and not as I said earlier on the next generation. And the next generation should be furious with us because we've got $22.00 trillion dollars of debt on the balance sheet and our investment in them has been cut by 35 percent since Ronald Reagan was president the worst of all worlds for them we've got we've got we've just got to got to address it we've got literally to 30 seconds but I just want to quickly ask you talked about John McCain going all in a New Hampshire Gary Hart famously did that too but so did Joe John Huntsman and he put everything in New Hampshire and he couldn't do better than 3rd So you know it's not a guarantee Nothing's a guarantee hope springs eternal I hope people come out to my town halls Magna as Senator Michael Bennet 2020 presidential Democratic presidential candidate Senator from Colorado as well thank you so much for joining us thanks so much for having me I magnetometer Bartie this is on point. On point is a production of w p u r Boston and p r. Support Front Point comes from the listeners of w.b. 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