Brianne to head the Department of Energy rehab replaces outgoing secretary Rick Perry more from N.P.R.'s Jeff Brady Danbury yet was easily confirmed by the Senate he's already been through the confirmation process he was promoted from Deputy Secretary to the department's top job as a Republican with a history of working on energy policy in Washington both on Capitol Hill and in the Energy Department during a hearing last month 3 yet said he would fight to preserve energy research programs the trumpet ministration has proposed eliminating Bria It also says he was not involved with former secretary Rick Perry's role in coordinating Ukraine policy for the trumpet ministration that work has come under scrutiny during the current impeachment inquiry Jeff Brady n.p.r. News. One of President Trump's closest allies is fighting corruption charges in Israel as several off reports Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now has 30 days to request immunity Israel's attorney general is charging Netanyahu with bribery fraud and breach of trust this is the 1st time in Israeli history that a sitting prime minister has been indicted according to the indictment Netanyahu will stand trial in a Jerusalem District Court the indictment also names 333 witnesses who may be called to testify at the trial the charges are a blow to Netanyahu as he fights to stay in power after 2 inconclusive elections Netanyahu vowed to battle the charges and has refused calls to step down according to a poll last week 35 percent of Israelis want Netanyahu to resign and stand trial as a citizen that poll was by the nonpartisan Israel Democracy Institute for n.p.r. News I'm in Tel Aviv North Korea is again warning the u.s. The time is running out to salvage nuclear talks working level negotiations broke down in October after Pyongyang accused Washington of being inflexible a summit between President Trump and Kim Jong un broke down last February over the Norse demands for relief from sanctions this is n.p.r. News. A high school student in Waukesha Wisconsin was shot and wounded Monday after allegedly pointing a gun in class and refusing to give up the weapon welcome shelf police chief Russell Jack the suspect is a 17 year old male he was transported to the hospital and is in stable condition authorities say the events unfolded after a student warned the school's resource officer that a classmate had a gun a statue a civil rights icon Rosa Parks has been unveiled in Montgomery Alabama as Troy Public Radio's Dana Mitchell reports the state is holding events this week to commemorate parks historic arrest which inspired the Montgomery bus boycott Alabama's governor and mug armories 1st African-American mayor Steven re unveiled the statue it marks the site where 955 Rosa Parks got on the city bus where she was later arrested for refusing to give up her seat to a white man sitting at a replica of that city bus just a few blocks away 19 year old Sharon most is thinking about parks legacy and what it means to her she's still here oh she did being I don't think I would have been able to do in her position someone to look up Alabama is one of 5 states that have set aside one day a year to honor the civil rights icon for n.p.r. News I'm Dana Mitchell in Montgomery and stock markets in Asia shares are mostly lower on worries about u.s. China trade tensions shares are up slightly in Shanghai well Street stocks closed lower the Dow lost $268.00 points this is n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include Life Lock reminding consumers that identity theft can happen any time of year including the holidays more at life like dot com slash n.p.r. And the listeners who support this in p.r. Station. Hello this is the arts hour on the b.b.c. World Service I'm taking a deep hit with 60 minutes of the best global arts and culture conversation from across the b.b.c. Coming up on today's show in just a moment the mother of dragons herself Game of Thrones actress Emily a class on her latest role in the holiday season from home Hollywood actor and director Emilio Estevez tells us about his movie the public which is set in a library occupied by homeless people bestselling Turkish will fuck describes the touch advocation of her mother tongue and what it's like to miss words Also actress and singer Idina Menzel on reprising her role as Disney's Elsa in frozen to. She's last the fairy tale character and more are your mythological character and it wasn't until they realize that the story started to come together because they were trying to writers are typical Disney princess and she's not that Australian actress Mia Wasikowska tells us about her role in the darkly strange new film Judy and punch and we have music from Senegalese Greil at Dia Belle Sissoko And joining me in the studio to talk about his bestselling novel The silent patient is author and screenwriter Alex Michel ladies Alex Hello and welcome to the b.b.c. World Service thank you very much it's great to be here are a group are listening to the World Service in Cyprus so it's really nice to be here and we welcome back writer filmmaker and lover of culture how are you nice very good luck to Syrian Nazri is campaigning to be my co-host on his but I'm not sure whether I should take this is a compliment or a threat no no I'm very psychic psychic side quick like. First then British action Similia Clark is inescapably me for playing to an heiress to the Queen and fearless leader in the massive h.b.o. Series Game of Thrones in. He has now broken free from tonight response starring in a petition come it's a Christmas movie and Amelia plays Kate he's working as an elf in a Christmas decoration store her life's a bit of a mass and then she meets Tom I will enjoy it I will try to take what you like to. Repeat the experience altered to give me your number I don't have a for what I. Think it was you must begin to think you know is where does he look. For you from in the van with the rest of the battle conquests it's not completely true I do have fun. Just locked in a cupboard by Talk To tired of Stern to handle that we should try such things for you death Emilia Clarke is Kate and crazy rich Asian star Henry Golding as Tom in last Christmas last Christmas is written by British actress Emma Thompson and it's directed by Paul Feig best known for bridesmaids the b.b.c. Simon Mayer Clark whether it was true that she was so keen to play the part of Kate she didn't even read the script No I did what didn't I think people stopped the soundbite before I continue doing the conversation which because it was also more a kind of you know I'm pretty sure I'm going to love it I'm pretty sure there's you know she could write nothing that I would not jump at the chance to be involved in because she's amazing she's an Oscar winning of course legend and so my agent told me that they had in that there was a part a part for a go go of my age so I was very very excited to read that script which I did do and then obviously I had to you know ask p.c.p. Is going to be in this movie Ok So given that there was a part for a quote girl of your age. So this girl is Kate tell us tell us about tell us about her Yes So Kate for me is the ultimate anti heroine she is a young go in her twenty's and living in London and in that delightful time in your life when you have no idea what you doing in your early twenty's you've just left school or university. And the rest of your life slides ahead and look at glittering knows what that is going to feel like and be like and she has no idea so when you meet her she really is a little bit chaotic and a little bit unsure and a little bit kind of messy around the edges and where she comes from is is very relevant to the story Yes Ok comes from Catarina comes from former Yugoslavia where and her parents fled there to come to London to escape the war and she is the daughter of immigrant parents living in England at the time when Breck's it has begun so that is a huge book point within our story and getting to kind of play a character where your heritage and your history is in a completely alien space to her because she left when she's so young there's not a lot that she remembers but my goodness to her parents and so it was kind of interesting research and what that would have felt like for Catarina coming off the back of the most successful television program of all time. That one he had still but. Did you think I'm going to have to choose my next job very carefully because it feels as though you think. Just going to go for something that gives me a blast you could have chosen so many different scripts here why yes this is what I keep trying to say to people is that they were throwing as I am I am so different to the mother dragons that the depth of that this seeming wrong. Was just appealing to me as an actor what I was going to do next never really played a very big part it was more that I was just wanting to do something different and the result was freeing for sure immediate Clark and the critically pound but box office hit nevertheless last Christmas is out now. I guess and there is a fellow writer Alex naked ladies and filmmaker and right hemisphere Well I'm going to ask you to be pretty. So is the wrong come something the appeals to you know story is it something that you like I don't think I'm in the target audience but I definitely appeals to me I think the target audience Well I think traditionally you said women Yeah I don't think that's the case anymore I love Nora Ephron American writer Nora Ephron who is who wrote When Harry Met Sally I have an of affection for those on and as a screenwriter Alex do you have insights into those tropes that you need to create a successful rom com Well they say it was comes down to just that you know boy meets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl at the end it's that simple is it really that I think so lame I mean when I I study screenwriting at the American Film Institute in Los Angeles and I was very fortunate to have a teacher who was a Disney writer and he said to us that every movie in fact is Cinderella pretty much every rom com is probably Cinderella you know if you think about some of that pretty woman that's a very obvious Yeah every movie Cinderella if it involves a make over yeah. It's funny because I'm thinking about for example like crazy which engines which is a recent example of a very successful kind of rom com and all the troops over there I mean it's people said it was more progressive just because it represented a certain kind of useful Yeah different community but actually if you think about the underlying story it's still very rich and some of the parents why do you need to see another movie again and then you know if it's only always to give Ella for an actress a highly identified with one role and that to launch deeply in the public's consciousness how important is that next role they take I mean should it be completely different Alex what are your thoughts I think it's really tricky I think if you identify with a role from you know t.v. Series or already famous film it's hard to follow that because you're so identified in the public's mind of the one part but on the other hand I read a really interesting article that suggested that. The reason why stars like Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks are still so famous is because they keep playing the same role again and again and again and again and so we just identify with that one particular part but more versatile actors what struggle to sustain a career in that way what are your thoughts on this and why I think I was thinking about Robert Pattinson who was in Twilight which obviously is one of the biggest franchises ever are part of our power. Struggle against that kind of being identified as that and then when aggressively into every weird project we could find and I think it's almost like performative Lee we're even in interviews and profiles in magazines and I think he's been relatively successful but I don't see Twilight when I look at him at all thank you both very much. You're listening to the sound the b.b.c. World Service with me Nicky Beatty the b.b.c. Is having a year long celebration of picks and literature and as part of it writers have been talking about the novels that have influenced them Turkish author Ilesha Fox single depth the genie will soar Lando a novel his themes she believes still resonate nearly 100 years after it was 1st published Orlando tells the story of a man born in the u.k. During the reign of Queen Elizabeth the 1st who magically becomes a woman at age 30 and then lives for another 300 years the B.B.C.'s in Macmillan us to leave how the sentences in Virginia Woolf's Orlando connected to her writing she likes inverted sentences and I love that when I wrote my early novels in Turkish 1st and about 15 years ago I switched and I started writing in English 1st and during that time of transition the generals work was very important for me this is also a little bit of a political discussion in Turkey like everything else because we have Turkey fide Irish language we have Turkey fide our vocabulary as you know this was once upon a time a multi-ethnic multi-lingual empire. As a result in the old language the syntax was came from the Turkish Granma but the vocabulary came from everywhere so there were Turkish Kurdish Albanian Greek Armenian Arabic Persian words within the Ottoman language when the language was Turkish fied hundreds of words were taken out because they were not Turkish origin Ali So when you talk when you speak English and when you use words like hotspot or use words like Smit and nobody says wait a minute the 1st is a Hebrew word is a Jewish word and the 2nd one is is an Arabic word Let's take them out of the English language nobody says that I there's a part of me that appreciates that you know enormously that by versity as a modeling group person you must grow a most clear idea when you're being influenced because you'll think of dream in another language so you can somehow see the influences arriving Nargus it's perfectly possible to start a dream in English and finish it in Spanish so my thought is if we can dream in more than one language why shouldn't we be able to write in more than one language over the years and I realized I love the commute back and forth between Turkish and English that completely different grammar the syntax and each time I travel back and forth I learn something if my writing has melancholy sadness sorrow I find these things much easier to express in Turkish but when it comes to humor which is very important for me particularly irony or satire I find these things much much easier to express in English and I think that's a cultural difference perhaps more than a linguistic one when you're a Furley or to Turkish word in the Turkish vacation you call it of language goes on about Turkish words and he took his words that you will love that you've used you self or the other Turkish writers might have used in their work I mean that might be seen as as you. Turkish imagine an autumn and dictionary is quite thick and modern Turkish dictionaries half the size around 45 percent of the vocabulary is gone so in Turkish I can say yellow and I can say red but the shades in between I have no words to describe them because they used to come from Persian another take on one example I can give is the word decided which means quite incidence but then there was another word which was to awful which is coincidences that are not accidental you know so there was a nuance there that we lost what I do when I write in Turkish I use both old words and new words and I love digging those words that we have lost because I can feel their absences and those absences matter. That we heard the author talking about Turkish as a language being Turkish side and therefore evocative words from other languages have now been lost that's really tell as an author and filmmaker you have connections with Beirut you went to a French school growing up how often do you use words from another language I often mistakenly use when I think I'm speaking in English but I'll be using a French expression that I've just translated on the fly can you give me my humble . Hat as it happens by mistake but I'll catch myself ago that doesn't sound quite right uh that's French and I mean all the words that express you best in one language but not another. I definitely think a phone call some very if you're swearing while swearing is Arabic so everything we see in the is right my and the swearing is fantastic so much better Yeah it's got to really come from somewhere else and the face in the body I would say are more comfortable thinking I mean there are some very self self-centered but thinking about myself or expressing myself in an English I've been reading in French recently because I haven't read in French in about 10 years because I feel a bit stuck in English so I thought it would be a way to get unstuck but revisiting another language I likes Michael do parts of your Greek Cypriot heritage find their way into your writing 100 percent salute I think that's all we have in a way where we're from you know and I don't think I would be writing what I'm writing if it weren't for growing up in Cyprus and by that I mean. The Greek myths everywhere in Cyprus are very much in the air in the tragedies are always being Reaper formed and reimagined and you were taught Homer at the age of 13 at school and so my preoccupation with Greek tragedy in Greek myths comes up salute me from my upbringing Yeah in fact we're going to talk about your book The Silent patient in the 2nd part of the show but you have a character in that book who is approached and says What do you think just because we all know the Greek myths and in fact he does know the Greek myth Yeah I'd say that's quite true but I would also think that the majority of British people would know Shakespeare quite adamant rubbish as they all character in the book says it takes that is not true and a lot of people. Have a very strongly I feel it in our instrument but I loved it when the character in your book says you know just because we're English we don't we don't all know about Shakespeare not for your work sometimes focuses on our culture not culture multiculturalism media your storyteller can you imagine words being cancelled like a leaf. I was talking about this is something of the opposite problem in the very least in Lebanon but across the Arab world I think as well as a lot of English is creeping in French and English has always been there because of the colonial history of the region as well and it's always been a complicated history because that same level on it was a bit like badge of honor quote unquote amongst the elites to speak French and now that's being requestion because that's your ex colonizers language so all of this is being so it's I don't think it's done in the way that it's happening in Turkey or Turkey for cation but there is a pride in reclaiming Arabic or rediscovering Arabic even I find as a guy my objects quite weak I would say but I'm trying to make efforts to to be a bit more expressive in Arabic which language do you both dream and Alex I dream and think in English mainly what about you know sweet same English how I have dreams that I'm speaking fluent high altitude but I wake up and it was a dream. This is the sound on the b.b.c. World Service I'm. Carried home in. That cell let it go for a Disney's phrase and a movie which took $1200000000.00 at the box office and not only do millions of children across the world know every word to that song centers every adult with a child who seen it the theme was written by the husband and wife some writing team Kristen Anderson Lopez and robot Lopez It won an Oscar for best original song in 2013 and the movie itself is the highest grossing animated feature of all time so no wonder Disney couldn't let it go for isn't 2 is in cinemas now across the world the 2 sisters Elsa and Anna and now grown up and Elsa the one with the special powers is Queen Elsa is voiced by Idina Menzel and the B.B.C.'s Kirsty Lange asked the. Broadway star if she had any idea fries would be such a huge global hit when she worked on it no. I was excited to be cast in it is need movie playing a princess role having a song knowing the historical value of that and sort of being welcomed into the Disney family that was just the milestone at that point in my career I had no idea . There's a letting go talk to the younger generation particularly it's hard to finger and sometimes I can only speak for help because me feel. Such a young woman. But woman that needs to learn from the same message which is that we often make ourselves smaller or fear our own power and one we have that moment life where we kind of recognize what it is that makes us really unique and special It's so liberating now you do the sound recording 1st always an animated film did you have any idea what your character was going to look like and what was your reaction when you 1st saw your you are Namaste it princess so well the wonderful thing about working with Disney is they're extremely collaborative So we actually get welcomed into a room where it's sort of like a work room of theirs and they have walls and walls filled of images and drawings and research words that are important to them trigger words. Trigger words for also . With that's a good question so she's less the fairy tale character and more your methodological character and it wasn't until they realize that the story started to come together because they were trying to writers your typical Disney princess and she's not that she's sort of tragic she's darker. She's goddess like. Now let's talk about the soundtrack given the 1st soundtrack was so incredibly successful how difficult a challenge was it to create new songs for the sequel Lopez's who are just magicians and my opinion they did not try to write another let it go they write for the theater all the time they come from the idea of. Writing for story and for character development and what to write for that moment are not trying to write just a hit song or or a hooking melody they it's most important what is the character trying to say here . Are you. Tell me something. I. Know you're going to. Be doing and then sell and frozen 2 days out now will I have to write is in the studio with me today Nasri a talent and Alex Michael e.d.s. So just a quick question about the role of frozen in your life 1st of all necessary Have you seen it and that it has no role in my life. No I haven't seen it because I don't have any children and I don't have any nephews or nieces so I haven't been kind of forced So to watch it I'm very aware of it obviously I've seen clips I've listened to that song a 1000000 times well let's turn to our other guest in the studio Alex have you seen Frozen I have seen Frozen you know what that we gave them and can you speak then to for example how important Disney and Pixar films are to children's lives what do you see it about that sort of movie that captures that hurts Well I sometimes I you know I'm playing devil's advocate to certain extent now but sometimes I do wonder whether it captures the hearts or whether it's just imposed on them you know because I grew up watching Disney I love Disney but even as a child I remember when the little mermaid came out that it turns the ending from a truck essentially a tragedy and Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale where she dies for love into a feel good you know how I am doing where she gets the guy and lives happily ever after and so there is something about Disney which is you know really. Problematic on a certain level and think but at the same time you know you do I grew up watching all Disney cartoons and love them so I wrote a letter to the Disney Corporation when allowed them came out and I was a child to come. Playing about the portrayal of Arabs. In business did you get. A reply kind of Securitas reply in that I got contacted by the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee who made me a member for life. That is the best story of the day say Brown. Was upset you about the portrayal I think that I was quite excited to see something that had anything to do with the Arab world on screen because I'd never been to the arbor that the point at that age I was still in London I was the 9 or 10 then when I saw it I saw where the bad guys in this which isn't how I experienced the Arabs around me so I just instinctively Plus you know having grown up in the u.k. I know you know sending a letter is the you know that's how you complain about things so I wrote a strongly worded letter to Disney while Fantastic thank you. To go away there's lots more to come on the thank you ting actor. He's maybe the public and actress Mia Wasikowska tells us about beauty and punch back after this. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service News Hour in the u.s. Has made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from Cabot cheese farmer own co-op offering Cabot cracker cuts pre-sliced cheeses available in resealable packages in 6 Fridays more information at Cabot keys daughter cool off. I this is Steve Inskeep when you roll out of bad blood. If you're like me the 1st thing on your mind is getting something to wake you up so turn on the radio N.P.R.'s Daily News program Morning Edition has been working through the night to get you the news you need it is essential to your morning is your cup of coffee so hit the ground running by listening to Morning Edition from n.p.r. News also live local news updates weekdays from when you wake up and throughout your commute on k.c.a.l. You and the k.c.a.l. Us up. To fail again a key baby Hollywood star in the u.s. To face tells us about his film the public set in a library prompted by America's homeless crisis I started to ask myself that question what can I do I began to camp out in the library and listen to stories really keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open and then I began to imagine what the story would be and actress Mia Wasikowska on the dark fairytale film Judi and punch coming up on the. B.b.c. News Hello I'm Gareth Barlow NATO leaders are gathering in London for a summit that marks the 70th anniversary of the alliance the British prime minister Boris Johnson will call for unity in the face of growing divisions over NATO is future president macron of France has angered some allies by suggesting the alliance is suffering brain death President Trump is expected to ring in his call for European members to spend more on their own defense and its general elections next year and is introducing restrictions on foreign political donations and advertisement on social media legislation being introduced in Parliament to ban foreign donations worth more than $33.00 to political parties and candidates anonymous online advertisement will be prohibited. A powerful typhoon has roared ashore in the Philippines blowing in Windows and shearing off Reeves as it hit the largest island in the archipelago typing community hit the southernmost part of Luzon with torrential rain and gusts of up to 205 kilometers per hour hundreds of thousands have taken refuge in shelters u.s. Trade officials are threatening to impose tariffs up to 100 percent on a range of French luxury goods worth 2400000000 dollars It comes in response to French plans to tax revenue earned by u.s. Tech companies such as Amazon and Google the campaign group Human Rights Watch says Bangladesh is failing to provide meaningful education for about 400000 children who fled from neighboring minima Human Rights Watch said there was no proper teaching inside refugee camps and children were barred from enrolling in schools outside them the u.s. Space Agency necessaries found India's recrimination a lander which crashed on the surface of the moon in September the wreckage was identified by a member of the public after necessarily satellite images contact was lost just 2 kilometers from the Main Surface b.b.c. Knees. Welcome back to the art center of the b.b.c. World Service with me and if you really just joined us he's got you missed in the 1st half of the show actress Emilia Clarke told us about her role in blog called Last Christmas turkey show that leaves just revealed how she misses words that now can't be used in the Turkish language and Idina Menzel discussed with uprising her role of Elsa in phrasing to you coming up in this half of the show in a moment Hollywood actor and director Emillio Esteve as tells us about his latest movie Australian actress Mia Wasikowska on how the message in her new film The Dark fairytale Judean punch has resonance for a modern audience probably one of my favorite parts of the movie I mean the speech that Judy gives at the end about day the which is me I think you'll know could be you tomorrow it really points out how easy it is to sort of stay in the comfort of that mob but you know while you are you're you're also sort of living in fear of being the one up on the stand we'll hear from Senegalese musician Dia Bell Sissoko about bringing stories of the u.k. To Senegal and vice versa and to be discussing all this with my guests in the arts our studio writer filmmaker and cultural commentator in Nasiriyah Tyler and screenwriter and author Alex Michael we'll be talking about your debut novel The silent patient Alex. First though Emillio estimates who's known to a certain generation for his acting roles in hit eighty's movies like The Breakfast Club but as a director he's made films with political messages for example Bobby from 2006 about the assassination of Robert Kennedy so it shouldn't be a surprise that there are politics at the heart of his new movie The public which he wrote and directed the film is set in downtown Cincinnati in a freezing winter where the public library becomes a refuge for the homeless who would otherwise die on the streets Emillio West. Bez plays librarians Jewett Goodson whose building is taken over by desperate people who have no choice but to refuse to leave tonight we occupy. Occupy. All right well so what about tomorrow night and the night after that or if this cold snap last in the next week and we thought about that with the good food listen to me every public official in this town knows there's not enough salt of those people on the street. Or so-called Christians they could potentially know that feed the hungry cold the poor. Housed the homeless. That's what Jesus said. But I don't think he said occupy. The brilliant Michael k. Williams There is homeless man Jackson and Emillio west of as librarians Jewett Goodson in the public and b.b.c. Stable asked to meet us to us if the film was a passion project this began over 12 years ago there was an article written published in The Los Angeles Times by an outgoing librarian in chipboard and Chip was retiring and he wanted people to know that what the modern day library look like was very different than the library remembered and he the thesis of the piece was that libraries have become daytime defacto homeless shelters and librarians are now tasked with being 1st responders so in the states librarians are now trained in the use of Narcan which is an anti overdose medication and at City it's ministered . By needle and so the librarians are now tasked with having to learn how to use these these anti overdose and so there's a fairy funny and moving secret at the beginning when you see the type of things that people request when I was writing they come to us rather like what do they what role does a library so that you wanted to capture in this well you know there's a line in the film where one of the character says. You know librarian just Must be nice to have a job where you can sit around revokes all day I think that's a great job if that were the case the modern day librarian is in fact a 1st responder and and it was like I said with a chip or piece he ends his article by asking the reader. Are we doing enough and what can you do and I thought well I'm a storyteller I'm a writer and director I can so I should I started to ask myself that question what can I do and so I thought Well Ok let me take a visit to the local library and see if it's just as bad as as chipboard had described and in fact it was worse and I began to. Camp out in the library and listen to stories really keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open and then I began to imagine what the story would be if if these marginalized individuals. Individuals who are experiencing homelessness mental illness drug addiction alcoholism What if they staged a sit in an old fashioned sixty's that still is and what would that look like do you want people to address the problems underfunded libraries or you won't be able to address the problems of homelessness all together it where you are you offering a solution to all of us all of it and I don't think that the issue of homelessness will be solved with any one piece of legislation a resolution I think that it is a collective consciousness that needs to shift and I could have in the studio probably take you back to the sort of how sick you are of talking about this breakfast clubs and almost all of those huge films that mean an awful lot to move number of people in from outside it looks like fun right or you had to sort of break that legend is actually was a miserable experience may know no I wasn't at all but I think that people get confused by thinking that young actors have a choice when you're a young actor and you have an opportunity you say yes because by the time I got to my audition for the breakfast club I'd already been rejected several 100 times so so you never know when someone says yes to you or what you agree to do what the lingering effect of that particular pictures is going to have and the lowest of his that talking about his film the public my guests on today's filmmaker invited the 3 a Tele and writer and screenwriter Alex Mike Lee does Well Alex you've actually written to me viz already that have been made that was lost he is the con is on as it's known in some parts of the world all the parts are coming in others which starred Uma Thurman Tim Roth Parker Posey Syfy of a Garra and then the devil you know in 2013 which have also been partly not only an even Jennifer Lawrence Have you ever considered it writing a film with an issue at its heart like this you know I think it's really tricky. He puts me in mind of a couple of things sang Goldman's famous quote about messages being for the Western Union I think you run the risk of being preachy if you write that kind of film industry what about you making films with issues at their hearts currently working on a couple of projects. With that with some partners in Lebanon and we're actually going the complete opposite direction which is making pure zonder a fiction in the way of a lot of what comes out of the Middle East and is allowed to travel the world and get funded is issue driven and kind of very miserable so we have the opposite is that we want to do something that's completely the touch of you know devoid of any issue within it of course there are places where you can not be political Yeah it's not be issue driven because the places have so much going on but it's I think I try to avoid that just because I think enough people doing it from my part of the world Yeah well I mean how does somebody successfully blend a real story an issue into a feature film with movie stars that have to be big hit for stunt so I do thoughts on that I do but I do think that you know the even entertainment I was on are pieces to say something I can say something you know the ways that they tend to be quite empty so you know I'm using myself as an example so my novel the silent patient you know is a stance really a psychological detective story and it's entertainment but at same time it's saying things that I believe very deeply about trauma and mental health you are listening to the b.b.c. World Service I'm making baby this is the art sounds so Alex Michel Ladies let me turn my full attention to you now because you are an author and screenwriter we just mentioned the 2 feature films that you've written so far and the starry casts that they both attracted Let's talk about your debut novel The silent patient really well crafted in psychological thriller it's been a bestseller in the u.k. Went straight to number one in the New York Times bestseller list and as I. The book I saw it as a film on every single page so it was no surprise to hear that the film rights had been acquired by Brad Pitt's production company plan b. Let's talk about the story Alysia Berenson a famous painter married to Gabriel at big fashion photography and one evening he comes home and Alysia shoots him then she never speaks another word what happened why did it happen she is the silent patient of the title she's being treated in a place called The Grove which is a high security criminal psychiatric unit in London and then we have Theo Faber who is a criminal psychotherapist who is determined to get her to talk so Alex I understand that you did actually work in a secure unit at a certain point is that right yes I I work part time in the unit basically I studied psychotherapy a couple of different places at a postgraduate level although I never graduated because ultimately I was too selfish and I also realized that I was a writer not a psychotherapist but while I was studying I worked in a secure unit for teenagers psychiatric unit that's correct you had a lot of research behind you then presumably to write the characters in the situations in this book yes I mean it was really well I always knew that the book I wanted to write would be a kind of Agatha Christie style. Psychological thriller by that I mean you know who done it why done it exactly with a great twist at the end and a kind of maybe a deeper psychological complexity when I sat down to think about it I thought I need an enclosed iconic location and I thought what I know about psychiatric units and I don't know much about detectives but I know an awful lot about psychotherapists so I thought suddenly everything kind of came came together at that point what is it do you think about the place of a psychiatric unit show a mental health facility and patients in literature and film that always fascinates and grips us what he said about what does it say about us that makes I think you know the novel to a certain extent is about you know inhabiting somebody else's mind and experiencing what it's like to be somebody else and so if you have a novel about you know extreme psychological distress it's a way of us experiencing the darker elements of the psyche without necessarily going there yeah ourselves because it's it's quite frightening really isn't that we like being frightened I think did the idea for the novel come to you while you were working in the now unit you know the actual germ of the novel came I grew up in Cyprus under Cyprus where the Greek myths are very you know present and at the age of 13 I came across the myth of us estus which which is referenced throughout the novel Yes which to repeat is turned into a tragedy and it's a problematic play and it's not often performed mainly because our sisters dies to save her husband and then she's brought back to life at the end of the play and reunited with her husband and yet she refuses to speak to him. People don't know what to make of assignments you know she overjoyed to see him and she furious that he allowed her to die for him. And she remained silent until the end of the play something about that lack of conclusion the refusal to explain and the silence itself. For 20 years and I kept thinking about how to tell the story and I tried it is a short story that I tried as a one act play and I tried It's a short film I was only having worked in a psychiatric unit where I saw a little bit about updating and setting the whole story in a mental health facility that actually came together the whole form of Greek Theatre is that is that present when you're writing characters a chorus or hubris so all those elements of Greek tragedies Yeah I think you know I don't think about it massively consciously but it must be somewhere a make up of who I am as mine my new book is the one I'm writing right now is very much dealing with all those these themes again so I guess it's it's it is possible yes but how lovely it is that's now your Us page is no murder Greek. Tragedy it's. The silent patient is available now and you're staying with us for the rest of the program and I am looking forward to the movie version. More film now in the arts and an actress is worth 5 rating incredibly highly since I 1st saw her in the article brilliant t.v. Series In Treatment Mia Wasikowska She's probably best known internationally for her levels in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland and Carey for going out this chain and you may have caught any Lisa China Denk is The Kids Are All Right so it's fair to say she makes a very interesting film choices and her latest directed by fellow Australians actress Mira folks is Judean punch which is a really dark fairy tale so just a bit of background about the British tradition of the Punch and Judy shows that this film draws from they are essentially puppet Shay's that take. Place in seaside towns they still missed a punch and his wife Judy and the performance is essentially a set of these little sketches between the puppets with Mr punches slapstick and violence towards Judy winning loads of laughs which I always found a bit odd and a bit sinister and my guests in the studio are nodding in agreement here anyway Mia Wasikowska plays puppet Judy and Damon Herriman is punch they live in the landlocked town of Seaside a violent lawless place overrun by witch hunts and hanging so it's all very creepy so you can start the wonderful show last night before you really have your way with the pup I way you really have I way with the puppet tragedy just one or 2 you wish to keep those magic tricks a little on the low down so convincing the now don't be taken for sorcery in the last thing I would like to see is a woman such as yourself before. Some can see some way to. Prevent a superstition or more by the time it would be Mia Wasikowska as Judy they're the B.B.C.'s Jane Garvey asked the director Mira folks what intrigued her about the tradition of Punch and Judy shows I started sort of do a deep dive into the history of Punch and Judy it comes from Intel in puppetry committed a latte and then all of those characters with a kind of anger sized in Punchinello turned into punch and that's the sort of history and then there's also very curious about what I saw resist range kind of devolution from quite beautiful marionettes to this very sort of simple hand puppet show that is really quite violent and deals with this kind of heavy domestic abuse and I was kind of fascinated that this this story is still really popular today and we continue to kind of tell it and show it and treasure it but I hadn't seen anyone digging into this sort of scarier elements and politics of that I grew up in Britain and. Punch and Judy was a sort of I didn't think until I saw the film actually I hadn't really questioned it now I really on easy about the fact that Punch and Judy was served up to children for apparently forever without anybody asking too many questions did you see it me or is it as a kid I don't think I actually saw or a Punch and Judy definitely had an awareness of it I thought simply I mean that footage at the end of the movie is from like Bond I junction or is that right oh yeah. There's the archival footage that plays over the credit you know. So it's these children that are watching a Punch and Judy show and it plays mainly on their faces and basically in that moment it's all about the dichotomy that I was interested in this kind of very strange combination between laughter and fear we don't know whether we're excited and lighted by something or whether it's terrifying and so so I think that's what the film that we made is really sort of setting out to explore it's all about the triumph of outsiders as well as no because you and there aren't there are always outsiders wherever wherever we live what would you say about that element of the film Well that's probably one of my favorite parts of the movie I mean the speech that Judy gives at the end about today that which is me and. I think you all know could be you tomorrow it really points out how easy it is to sort of stay in the comfort of that mob but you know while you are you're you're also sort of living in fear of being the one up on the stand and I just think you can see that all over the world now and probably always me I've read that you make what some people regard as quirky choices for your film role and I guess you could say that Judi and punch was also another quirky choices are you conscious of that does it is that what you're doing I don't know I think it's always sort of funny to see your choices feed by somebody else and then you're like Oh Ok I feel like all the choices I've made I like completely obvious and exactly what everybody else. Do if they were in my shoes the films I've seen you in remember Jane Eyre and and Alice in Wonderland which is the ultimate cinematic trip but most people standards could you ever see yourself in the book standard rom com slightly ditzy you know meet a man who goes a bit pear shaped but more goes wrong and then it gets happy not something you'd ever want to do imo I popped like a few years ago I probably would have been like I will never do that but you know I'm sure my mother would love me to do something like a little bit more like friendly to you know grammars especially mine but. Yeah so there's some that I think a brilliant but I mean I'd actually never get off of them so this is probably won't . Please no I also think they're really hard to make and make well. And Mira folks there and Judy and punch is out now my studio guests today are screenwriter and author Alex Michel ladies and filmmaker and cultural commentator now 3 Attala the director Mira folks was talking about the theme of outsiders and do you think that we need these stories more than ever today nursery. I think a lot of stories are about outsiders because outsiders are interesting and you know for example like a lot of short stories are about outsiders or even earlier we're talking about the public I mean homeless people are outsiders to most you know to most people we don't even see them anymore which is grotesque and horrible but that's what happens in big cities so I think a lot of stories are about outsiders and about bringing us into their world and empathy and so I don't think we've ever lacked stories about outsiders I think now we might be trying to represent more people which is which is a good thing and you thoughts on that I like so I think I suppose the 1st thing comes to mind is is the actor that Robert De Niro's performance in Taxi Driver is that ultimate outsider which is now pretty much been made you know seen by seen remake as the Joker. Did you enjoy it that it. Can Oh yes I don't know both yes but again it's sort of it's interesting how we can identify with someone who's not so much on the fringes of society yeah and all see ourselves in that person the revolution going on in Lebanon for the past 40 something days and at the beginning of the revolution all people wore Joker face paint and then there was a lot of photo is that show that this happened in Bolivia Yeah and all over the world people wearing Joker face paint as kind of protest. You know obviously it's there's more nuances in the film and maybe you don't want to add up the fight fully with the Joker but I think the urge to Tara system them and have that face paint represented. You know is I think everyone has a bit of that in them and maybe scares us as well we had me of I think as kids talking about doing things in life that are friendly to grandmas have either of you ever felt that pressure like do something that your granny would like Alex. How do you think given creative freelance writing to be brave and bold and. And it's Ok if you offend an older poet of the community I don't try to offend anybody I just try to you know speak truthfully and be honest but I was I mean I was nervous about my parents reading my novel Well you sure you know what made you know of us just you know rude bits to be very honest with you I didn't ever believe that anybody was ever going to read the novel Oh I wrote it totally you know for myself really and so I gave me a freedom that otherwise I wouldn't have had because I never thought my father my mother would ever read it well look 14 favors the bold but yes exactly have you ever worried about certain projects because elders in the community or not even elders people around you in a different headspace might be offended or shocked yeah definitely think that you know dealing with a lot of stories and working a bit with deal with the Middle East there's some sensitivity around certain issues and I think it can seep into your process which I think is dangerous and I've actually realized that I have to free myself of those kind of Self's those impulses the self censor when I was going to be a writer they always too which is the critical side of the brain and the creative side of the brain don't operate at the same time and if you try and use them both at the same time you block yourself and you can't write anything how interesting survey was towards us to edit on one day and write on another day and that's something I've always done a lot of money for that advice because you've just given it out for free to millions of listeners if you want to check out a. Finally on today's arts house of blind 6 Senegalese musician Dia that Sissoko is part of the great line of Sissoko Greil it's always storytelling he became the legendary singer and guitarist problem Miles Cora player and is also a tool that internationally with his family's band and all kinds of other artists too and when Dia Bell came into the b.b.c. For a live session. Has been to can last him how now that he lives in the u.k. His role is the graveyard which is so associated with a particular community where. He's always here to keep the culture in also for me coming in u.k. Or somewhere in the world is just to discover the world and to discover what's happening there what does their culture so I can take that back to my country and share that with them so because there's so many of them also there maybe they are good at as a me but they don't have a chance to travel in the world so if I travel so my mission is to discover and detect cultures from England or some around force or to shout out to my community who didn't know so it's a 2 way thing you know you're bringing your traditions to us and also send them now as yes. So many people don't know of our synagogue they also don't know about guilt you know so for me I give them that opportunity to tell them story and also say this is why we happy to have that role in the society and what's the next track going to be here the next one is. Tell me. Because tell me is not my linker or is not a French is English is a time for us to tell each other the truth and share or so the b.d. Off this was given pasta shape his knife lovely music in the World Circus is a time for sharing but also for for listening for listen. So let's let's have a listen thank you. READY READY READY for this weeks out there thank you for your ego is if you want to be in touch with the show do email be on. At b.b.c. Dakota and you can hit me up directly on both Instagram and Twitter for now from me Nicky Beatty m. Producer Livia Skinner see you next week. From the pollute studios at California Lutheran University this is listener supported k.c.a.l. You. On the next fresh air b.j. Miller a hospice and palliative care doctor who started doing this work because he came close to death when he was in college and jumped on top of a park commuter train and got electrocuted he lost both legs below is knees and one arm below is elbow He's the co-author of the new book a beginner's guide to the end join us fresh air for Tuesday between one and 2 in the afternoon also at 8 in the evening on h.b.o. You know. It's 12 midnight. This is n.p.r. For the California coast 88.3 f.m. And 80000 Oaks 2.3 f.m. 1340 am Santa Barbara and 89.7 k.c.a.l. And. Santa Maria herd on 92 point one in San Luis Obispo We're live on the key seal you out. 2 and welcome it's news day for the b.b.c. World Service live from London Great to have your company Lawrence Pollard and Claire McDonnell with. All the way leaders are being asked to show a united front for the 70th anniversary of their organization but the partnership has plenty of fault lines financing loyalty significance all men who claim she was trafficked as a young teenager to have sex with Prince Andrew told us her story she's been speaking to the British media and asked the British public to support her fight. For the people in the u.k. To stand up beside me to help me fight this fight to not accept this as being Ok Prince Andrew has always denied and still does that nothing happened New data shows it's people living in rural areas in the us we're now most vulnerable to contracting a child the page.