And conflict with his obsession to keep sharpening his comedy. First news live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm sure Rahm the house and patient inquiry into President Trump is approaching its next phase N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnson reports lawmakers will have a chance to question witnesses during public hearings to begin Wednesday u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine build Taylor will be the lead off witness on Wednesday House investigators will also question the assistant secretary for European and your Asian affairs George can't be encouraged he will continue to focus on whether President Trump used military aid as leverage to press the leader of Ukraine to investigate a political rival N.P.R.'s wins or Johnston the Federal Aviation Administration has threatened to ground 38 Pretty own cell with Airlines jets the carrier bought from other airlines because of inadequate maintenance repair records Southwest had bought 88 years 730 seven's from 16 different carriers N.P.R.'s Wade Goodwyn reports usually American carriers sell their used planes overseas but beginning in 2013 Southwest Airlines bought 88 used 737 from foreign airlines but last year at f.a.a. Aviation safety inspector found discrepancies in the paperwork but his bosses at the agency nevertheless allowed Southwest to continue flying the $730.00 seven's one contractor was accused of not even translating foreign maintenance documents into English so that repairs could be evaluated Southwest Airlines has promised to speed up its inspections of the aircraft in question and say the risk of continuing to fly the jets is low Wade Goodwyn n.p.r. News Dallas President Trump return to you know it today for the 100 Veterans Day parade Natalie McLean ory of member station w f v reports. Protesters chanted and guess the president delivered a Veterans Day address. Cinnamon Hatton park Bruce Frankel is a 2 year veteran who served in the army he says President Trump has not represented himself as a leader on issues like immigration mayor that would take children away from their parents at the b.b.c. You get veterans for it so families and people could be together not to lose that Navy veteran William De Vito has a differing opinion he says President Trump has made systemic changes for veterans and his presence here is welcome I don't think it's political for him to calm I just think it's cool this is the 1st time a sitting president has accepted the invitation to the tribute for n.p.r. News I'm Natalie Migliore in New York former President Jimmy Carter is in the hospital has a minute to Emory University Hospital today for a procedure in the morning to relieve pressure on his brain caused by bleeding due to recent falls he said recent resting comfortably Jimmy Carter is 95 this is n.p.r. News from Washington good evening it's 804 I'm Dave wire with k.c.a.l. You news it's Veterans Day and a number of ceremonies out of events were held on the central and south coast today to pay tribute to our men and women in uniform. All over. The room. At the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley there was music a fly over by military aircraft and Civil War reenactment of events some ceremonies and parades took place over the weekend but there were also several events today to commemorate what those in uniform did for our country the widow of a man who died in a fiery dive boat disaster that killed 34 people in waters off of our coastline is suing the vessels owners christening Bingham who lost her husband Justin Dignam filed a claim today in Los Angeles federal court the lawsuit against Santa Barbara based truth aquatics is the 1st from a relative of those who died on the boat the lawsuit as a counterclaim to a lawsuit filed preemptively by owners of the book called The concession to protect them from liability and recork of maritime law the fire is the subject of ongoing criminal and safety inquiries by federal authorities the blazes cause has. Not yet been determined the clock is rolling on plans to shut down the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant it's a move that will have huge economic impacts on the region because p.g. And e. Is a major employer one of the efforts is underway to deal with the problem is a decommissioning engagement panel is looking at issues related to the shutdown and what can be done to try to balance them on Wednesday night the panel will hold an economic opportunities and impacts public meeting at the San Luis Obispo County Government Center the 6 30 pm of event will give people a chance to weigh in on the subject plans call for the nuclear power plants unit one reactor to be phased out by November of 2024 and unit 2 by November of 2025 a south coast college graduate who got his start in broadcasting in Santa Barbara has received one of the industry's highest honors radio and television sports talk show host Jim Rome has been inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame Rome graduated from u.c. Santa Barbara and got his 1st on air job at Santa Barbara and t.v. Stations he currently hosts a national t.v. Sports talk show on the c.b.s. Sports Network and they saw Macassar national sports radio show on c.b.s. Sports radio Romo's inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in New York City over the weekend it's k.c.l. You then support for n.p.r. Comes from the little market offering artisan made goods and home decor with a commitment to fair trade a nonprofit founded by women to empower female artists and marginalized communities around the world more at the Little Market dot com and the ne e. Casey Foundation. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross my guest Judd Apatow has given many actors their 1st big break or given their careers a big boost for the movies and t.v. Shows that he's produced and or directed like Freaks and Geeks the 40 Year Old Virgin Superbad anchorman bridesmaids girls train wreck the big sick and crashing we're going to talk about the comic who gave Apatow his big break and became his mentor and close friend Garry Shandling Apatow has edited a new book built around interviews as well as the photos jokes letters and journals Apatow found in channelings home after Shandling's death in 2016 the book is called it's Gary Shandling book and it's a companion to the h.b.o. Documentary Apatow made last year titled The Zen diaries of Garry Shandling at the heart of the film and book are standings journals dating back to 1908 shamming practiced Zen meditation for decades and pages and pages of his journals are reminders to himself to remain calm not get attached to worldly things let go of his ego aspirations that came into conflict with his neuroses and his obsessive dedication to his comedy shamming became famous as a comic in the seventy's when Johnny Carson was still hosting The Tonight Show after making many guest appearances shamming became a frequent guest host when Carson was away but channelings groundbreaking contributions were his 2 t.v. Shows it's Garry Shandling Show foreshadowed reality t.v. And featured a fictionalized version of shambling that showed him living as life while being followed by a camera crew the show was very matter and so was the theme song whose lyrics were about being a theme song. Seem to. Recall me for the rest of my reply is. Almost up to me like. Out. I like that Gary show. Cam legs next t.v. Series The Larry Sanders Show was also Metta it was a satire in which he starred as the host of a late night talk show kind of like The Tonight Show let's start with a clip in which Larry's producer played by Rip Torn as asking Larry if you read the new book about the competition and conflict between late night hosts. What you think about Booker did you finish Oh yeah I've written on the plane man I can't believe Leno actually did in the closet so we could hear the whole network meeting I'm so sick this to be so upset what people are saying I know that is a sickness but if you say about the not being mentioned look everybody in Times talking about it good. Ted Apatow Welcome back to Fresh Air. This new book and your documentary The book is a loving tribute to Gary Shandling it's also about how a comic turns insecurity and emotional suffering into comedy Garry Shandling practice Zen Meditation is a way to deal with his stress insecurity emotional pain and because of that because because he was so into Zen Buddhism you assumed he didn't hold on too much into terms of possessions and any sentimentality so after he died when you went into his how you were surprised by all the stuff that you found there pertaining to his life tussle a bit about what you found that you've worked into your documentary about him another book. I went to his house and you know there's the immediate question of what do you do with all his stuff and. I just as a friend you know was willing to help the family deal with it and as a hoarder I was interested in it not being lost I get but because to me everything about Gary was valuable and is valuable. He wasn't sentimental and so for instance all of his awards were in a trophy case that he built next to his washer and dryer. If I can Sammy and his Peabody they're all in this little trophy case in the most disrespectful place in the house and that's what Gary felt like he also didn't have any photos of family anywhere in his house and I just assumed that he didn't care about any of that stuff and tossed it all and when I started opening closets and looking in boxes I realized that he didn't throw everything in the garbage he threw everything in boxes and just chucked them in closets So for instance his. Brother died when he was 10 years old and I'd never seen a photo of his brother but then I would open a box and there would be 100 pictures of his brother so I don't know if he had a secret the style joke or sentimental side but he did keep everything and he kept his journals which he started in the 1970 s. And you write that when you found Garry Shandling his journals you wondered if it was Ok for you to read them if you'd be either violating his privacy or if you find out things about him that would make you like him last but you decided to read them did it change your impression of him. Oddly it changed my impression of him in the sense that I already had mired him and I knew he was a man who struggled but I was surprised that. 30 years of journals mainly contained. Gary trying to talk to his positive voice so they weren't journals from the point of view of someone who was just trying to spew all their toxic stuff a lot of us writing journals like that we just want to get the bad voice out of our head and that's not what Gary's journals were like they were. A voice talking to the panicked anxious voice so most of the journals were reminders to try to get out of ego to try to be more kind and loving to let go and it's 30 years of reminders about the type of person that he wants to be how would you describe Gary share means place in comedy. Gary always cut his own path so when he did it's Garry Shandling Show that there really hadn't been a show like that that was so experimental and weird and which made fun of the whole concept of sitcoms it just describe the show while the show was Gary playing you know a version of himself and he basically would look. Directly into the camera and talk to the audience at home and he would comment both on the show the story and the mechanics of making the show so he might suddenly jump on a golf cart and drive through the studio and reveal the studio audience and the warm up person and the director while still doing the story of that episode and then he did the Larry Sanders Show which was a satire of talk shows it was a behind the scenes look at a anxious neurotic talk show hosts somewhat like Gary and in it he tried to explore the way show business and ego prevents people from connecting and loving each other that was his premise and in a way he was trying to use this show to explore his own psyche and I always thought he was mocking the part of himself that he didn't like mocking the person that wanted to be rich and famous and someone who could hold this high position for a long time you know Garry Shandling really well but your 1st encounter with him was when you were in high school when you're 16 and you had a radio show in which you'd interview comics and you'd somehow manage to get really great comics to talk to you a high school kid on this tiny little high school radio station and we talked about that on one of your visits to our show and you have a whole book collecting some of your high school interviews with with comics but anyways you interviewed Garry Shandling when you were 16 in 1903 and this was about 5 years after you 1st started doing comedy it was about 22 years after his 1st appearance on The Tonight Show how did you get Garry Shandling to talk with you. Well back then. There wasn't an Internet at least none that we knew of and most comedians didn't do long format interviews there were no pod cast. Yes And other than maybe some morning radio to promote gigs so I interviewed about 50 comedians mainly by tricking their publicists into thinking that it was a high school radio station that it was just a normal radio station and most publicists because these comedians didn't do many interviews were very willing to let me talk to them Gary was in Vegas I think opening for Joan Rivers when I did this interview and he had just hosted The Tonight Show for the 1st time which is very rare for a young comedian who wasn't that famous to get to host The Tonight Show I don't remember about the interview was he was just really funny and was very willing to talk about how jokes are written and then tell me a bunch of jokes to to show me the process and it was one of the interviews I appreciated the most and you know looking back it's weird because he completely changed my life he hired me to write for his show he did a cameo on the pilot of The Ben Stiller Show which I thought was part of why we got picked up he asked me to direct I had never directed before so it's weird that I knew him for so long it almost feels predestined to our relationship it and then ultimately being able to tell you know the story of his life. Your book about Garry Shandling as has been published in your earlier documentary about him the Zen diaries of Garry Shandling you play a short excerpt of that high school interview you did with Garry Shandling So let's listen to this this is recorded in 1983 when you were 16 How would you describe the type of human that you do it. Was that you had that conventional It seems that you know when you watch it it you like your ideas on things and I think it's great I did it's just in my act that I've heard every excuse for a woman not going to bed with. I think I've heard them oh I remember that one girl actually said to me what with that off an island. And I thought that was over a year ago and I haven't gotten over it yet. And I think I can understand them better . Ok it's a brief excerpt of my guest Judd Apatow was interview with Garry Shandling when I was and in high school did that interview helped lead you to have enough of a connection with Garry Shandling that he would be willing to help give you your start in comedy. I'm so excited to talk to him you could just hear in my voice Oh absolutely believe it it's the you know it's like I'm talking to you know John Lennon and. I didn't ever tell Gary about it when I 1st met him I think I waited a very long time to tell him that we had met over the phone oh he didn't realize he didn't put 2 and 2 together and say oh you're the kid who. No I was so embarrassed about it and I met him because he was looking for jokes for the Grammys he was hosting the Grammys and my manager connected me with Carrie and Carrie said well you know send me some jokes and I stayed up all night and wrote like 100 jokes because I really felt like I think this is the big break of my career and he like the jokes enough to hire me on in a more serious way and then he took me to New York to be at the Grammys with him and on stage during the show and I don't think I wrote many he choked that he used I wrote a lot of set ups for jokes and then he would get rid of my punch line and write a better punch line and I think that that was helpful to him that I I knew music and I knew the this city of a joke let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is film director screenwriter t.v. And movie producer Judd Apatow and his new book is called it's Gary Shandling it's Book We'll be right back this is Fresh Air. Why are some people better risks than others is it sheer luck. Instinct or simple strategy it's about being. Honest with yourself the really amazing risk takers they understand their own weaknesses and they look at where they've got things wrong and they learn from those mistakes ideas around risk that's next time on the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. Between 9 and 10 on k.c.a.l. You this is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is t.v. And movie producer writer and director Judd Apatow how the person who gave him his break in comedy was Garry Shandling and Judd work with Garry Shandling on projects and now. A couple couple years like 3 years I guess after Garry Shandling staff he has a new book editing things from Garry Shandling is life his journals interviews with other people about Garry Shandling interviews that Garry Shandling gave during his life and it's called it's Gary Shandling's book. Gary she grew up in Tucson because his older brother needed a warm dry climate because he had cystic fibrosis which is a genetic progressive disease in which mucus clogs the airways in the lungs and makes it increasingly difficult to breathe and carries older brother Barry at age 13 Gary was 10 then. And it sounds for from your documentary in your and your book that. It traumatized Gary when Barry died in a left scars that never went away and I mean he was he wasn't told that the end was imminent he didn't get a chance to say goodbye he wasn't taken to the funeral How did that affect him. You know it's hard to know for sure but it certainly scarred him in a way that affected him throughout his life after his brother died the family dealt with it by not talking about it which I think you know for that time period this is the 1960 is something a lot of people did in post World War 2 America they said All right we're going to move forward and how we survived this is we are going to stuff it down deep and not talk about it and so throughout Gary's life he was all for being honest and open and vulnerable and present and real and I think that's because at the key moment of his childhood people were not real with him I want to read a journal entry from his diary in 2005 before brother you were a happy boy in your body his death was a mind f. Event and disappointment you had to deal with on your own go back into the body don't try to avoid pain it is a struggle to stay in the body for every one discipline breathing confusing. So he's still trying to deal with this and it still seems to be like in 2005 to be kind of shaping how he wants to get by in the world to like. Be you know go back into your body don't try to avoid pain this is a common struggle you have a to. Yeah it's it's heartbreaking to see hear that. And I think Kerry was trying to understand how the death of his brother affected his life and his choices and he knew that he hadn't dealt with it in the way that he should have and so that at the end of the documentary there's a long letter that he wrote to his brother in which he he basically says goodbye to his brother in a way he didn't get to in life and. It's just so beautiful and so sad. To me that some of the well he says at the end. Goodbye from this world. Goodbye from the pain of your body. I honor your life what a special short life. To affect me so severely for so long Thank you I see you on the other side I love you. Well it's clear you still find that very moving that really speaks to you. You know I was you know going through his things and I had this idea that. His brother who he didn't ever talk about might be you know the key to a lot of his personality then one day I just stumbled upon that letter and I just think. You know it's it's so sad and also so beautiful that he got to a place where he understood it and could express something so deep and loving and it's heart breaking because ultimately it's a little boy who loved his brother so much there was all this home video and in every shot Gary looks like he is in heaven with his older brother and so you know. It's you know it's the worst possible loss for a little kid. This is like Gary Shandling was also really shaped by a near death experience that he had when he was in a car accident in Beverly Hills and nearly died so he was 27 when this happened and he writes about it and his journal and he says Remember when you were hit by the car death was in your face and you realized just to live even with nothing is a more than fair trade What do you need nothing if he had everything you would still have to face death don't be attached to life let go of everything see what's left. I think that's an example of what you were talking about earlier him him giving advice to himself and using his his own voice his calm voice to talk to himself. That was a turning point for him wasn't it when he was in that traffic accident he did he change his life and has what he wanted to do with it afterwards he was writing for sitcoms like Welcome Back Kotter and Sanford and Son and doing some stand up but he wasn't that committed to it he was having a hard time finding himself and after. The car accident he decided to quit writing and focus all of his time on his stand up so it had a big effect on him my guest is screenwriter producer and director Judd Apatow his new book is a tribute to Garry Shandling called It's Garry Shandling book and it's a companion to avatars h.b.o. Documentary called The Zen diaries of Garry Shandling We'll talk more after we take a short break I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. The new power Family Foundation supports w.h.y. Wise fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation support for n.p.r. Comes from the station and from little passports a monthly subscription service for kids each package includes games souvenirs and activities from a new country designed to spark curiosity and cultures around the globe at little passports dot com slash radio. And from Subaru featuring the 3 row ascent with seating for up to 8 and a choice of 2nd row captains chairs love it's what makes Subaru Subaru learn more at Subaru dot com. Unemployment is at near record lows which means it's going to go back up sometime I just got laid off last week you saw currently looking for work I've already applied for and. I'm waiting to hear if I am eligible I'm caught a result are we ready for more unemployment the story next on a marketplace Tuesday at 3 in the afternoon also it's 6 30 in the evening on k.c.a.l. You n.p.r. For the California coast. South Coast weather and t.c.l. You I'm Dave Meyer tonight mostly clear in the evening in areas of low clouds and fog lows low to mid fifty's with some light winds for England Ventura County on Tuesday low clouds and fog in the morning then Sunny Isles right around 70 at the beaches near 80 illin where you can expect some morning breezes Tuesday night mostly clear except for patchy low clouds and some coastal fog after midnight Well to be in the low to mid fifty's tonight expect a low in Oxnard $5253.00 degrees in Santa Barbara and Dave Myron k.c.a.l. You. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross let's get back to my interview with Judd Apatow who's produced and directed films and t.v. Shows like Freaks and Geeks the 40 Year Old Virgin Superbad anchorman bridesmaids girls train wreck the big sick and crashing He's edited a new book about Garry Shandling built around interviews photos jokes letters and journals Apatow found in channelings home after his death in 2016 Shanley was a mentor and friend to Judd Apatow and taught him about comedy how to write direct and mentor other young comics the book is called It's Garry Shandling his book and it's a loving tribute to a highly neurotic comic who practice zen meditation while trying to turn his insecurity and neuroses into comedy it also tells the story of Shandling's life the new book as a companion to the h.b.o. Documentary Apatow made last year titled The Zen diaries of Garry Shandling. Garry Shandling came of age in comedy during the period when if you wanted to make it big you had to do The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson It was the only late night show and it was really like the only venue where you're going to get a national audience and people can hear you your name so in your documentary back area Shandling you play a clip from Kerry's 1st appearance on The Tonight Show so I thought we should hear that clip I dinner last night a friend of mine's house and he has when he comes sings a baby he has a baby and. Who was c.e.o. I don't know how to relate this to well you know in the baby's crawling around on the carpet in this baby well it's up his diaper you know in the. I'm sitting there you know when the mother comes over and says Isn't that adorable Brandon made a gift for daddy. Now I'm figuring this guy's going to be really easy to shop for on. I. Was. Because Gary Shandling is 1st Tonight Show performance so you know it's funny it's so not like anybody could have told that joke you didn't need to be Garry Shandling to tell that it's not a personal joke it's not something that really comes out of his experience. Is just interesting since he became so personal as a comic since he did 2 shows that were basically a comedy version of his life with him playing himself is such a really big journey that he took comedically. I can only equate it to something like music you know the Beatles start out and they do I Want To Hold Your Hand or Love Me Do and then it turns into Sergeant Pepper and you know that joke is you know it's a it's you know a solid joke you know there's been so much comedy since then that it seems mild at this point but Kerry was a great joke writer a great writer of one liners and and bits and he evolved into something that was much deeper and more heartfelt but like a lot of people it starts out with something simpler. So in talking about how Gary Shandling won from you know telling jokes that other comics could tell to doing standup that was much more personal that's one of things I asked him about when I interviewed him in December of 1902 and he was supposed to show up at a studio but we got a call from his publicist saying that he had car trouble and that. He couldn't he couldn't make it so we just did a phone interview. But anyways I was talking to him here about developing his voice in comedy so let's hear a short excerpt of that and I should mention you I'm honored to say you include an excerpt of this in the documentary version of your story about Gary Shandling's life so thank you for including the thank you so here's an excerpt when you started doing stand up did you have a sense of who you wanted to be on stage you know like what what aspects of your own personality really wanted to bring out your stage persona. It was really a nightmare I had no idea who I was when I started and I was frightened to death and I had no natural performing kills I never performed before in my life and to be thrown onto the stand up stage is an experience that you cannot fathom until you're actually there because there's no place to go and everyone is looking at you and you can't even see them because of the light and yet you have to manage start talking and be funny on top of it and. At the beginning I think I did I wrote material that was very much influenced by Woody Allen who was my favorite aunt and I used to do very often be jokes that sounded like I was reading them and. It took years to develop a style and actually what happened is I was involved in a relationship. And the will of the girl left me and I was very hurt very hurt and I had to go up on stage and I finally just turned to the audience said this girl last me. I said. Well I think what happened is she moved in she moved in with another guy so I dumped her because that's where I draw the line. And so that was the beginning that was really the beginning of you know people of the Garry Shandling dating years. In stand up that came out you know because I realized oh I started really spill my guts about being hurt and people really related to it and it just was one of those things that was in a nightclub in Dallas I really remember it very well. I think that's so interesting how uncomfortable he was on stage at the beginning and how it was he felt like he sounded like he was reading his jokes. And Missy sure who owned the Comedy Store was very direct about the fact that she thought he was a terrible performer and she didn't like writers who tried to do stand up so Gary. You know couldn't really get into the commies and then he just I didn't have all these little crappy places in the valley and he he didn't come back to the comedy so for a year and then a year later he came back and he had found his voice in his confidence and then they let him be a regular at The Comedy Store but it is interesting that sometimes just one joke unlocks the key to your whole approach you know he had one joke that was very honest and based on his suffering and then he realized oh this is the way I could go down this path. So Garry Shandling became a frequent guest on The Tonight Show and then became one of the most popular guest hosts of The Tonight Show but he decided Garry Shandling decided to stop doing The Tonight Show which is really surprising because he was guest hosting so much I mean it was such a privileged position to be in but he gave it up how come well Gary was doing is Garry Shandling Show the same time and and Gary just got tired he just said I can't do a great job of both of those things I think the pressure to do work that was great chess was almost unbearable to him that the pressure other people put him and put on him of the pressure he put on himself I think he put it on himself completely and he just had a bar he was trying to reach and it was almost maddening to try to reach that bar he just. Didn't mail anything in he was obsessed with with doing something. Unique and amazing and I think it's exhausting in a way that people can't really understand when your mind works like that if you care and you're passionate and your soul searching it's also a very painful compulsive process. Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is film director screenwriter t.v. And movie producer Judd Apatow and his new book is called it's Gary Shandling book we'll be right back this is Fresh Air. Thanksgiving is a time for gathering to eat way too much food and you don't want to miss anything big or. We're just. Trying to keep up with the news can leave you worried that you'll miss something too but n.p.r. Packs your plate with everything you need and want without giving you more than you can handle so get your fill comfortably with Morning Edition from n.p.r. News when you wake up and throughout your weekday morning on k.c.a.l. You. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and for morning Brothers Pictures presenting the good liar a suspense thriller about the secrets people keep and the lies they live starring Helen Mirren and Ian McKellen the good liar rated are only in theaters Friday and from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since 1900 proud supporter of independent thought whether that's online over the air or in a bottle more Sierra Nevada dot com. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is writer director producer Judd Apatow and he got his start with movies like Superbad and the 40 Year Old Virgin and one of the people who gave him his start in comedy back when he was really young was Gary Shandling and now Judd Apatow How about 3 years after Gary shellings death has published a new book that he edited called It's Garry Shandling book that includes interviews about Garry Shandling as well as a lot of excerpts from Garry Shandling diaries. You work with Garry Shandling on the Larry Sanders Show in which he played a late night talk show host was kind enough like a satire of The Tonight Show with a producer who was similar to that tonight show's producer an announcer who is similar to The Tonight Show's announcer except everything is very funny and very very steerable. So you were a writer and then one of the show runners for the Garry Shandling Show when he asked you to be a show runner you were afraid to take the jobs apparently very stressful position apparently working for Gary was very stressful and you expressed your reluctance and you said to him I don't want you to hate me what made you think that if you became the showrunner that it would kill your relationship with him. Well there was just. A long line of bodies of people who had held that position. I always liken it to trying to paint with Picasso that if you were painting a painting with him he probably at some point would turn to you and go you do it all wrong what's with the red you know you would always disappoint him because this show is so in his mind and it's so based on his feelings and experience that when you work on something so personal how could you ever know what he would do what's in his heart how he would behave. And because Gary was you know neurotic about running a staff and he was an amazing with the writers and compassionate of what was so hard about pleasing him that it was a combative show it was painful at times if you pitched Gary a joke and he hated it you would feel that you would I mean it would hurt you the look of disappointment in Gary's eyes and there were very few people that Gary felt like could write the show so when he said hey can you do me a favor and Co show run this last season I was terrified because I loved my relationship with Gary and I didn't want something to go terribly wrong with it and I'd said to him Gary I'll do it but you have to know how hard this is I was just honest with him in a way probably no one ever had bit and I was honest about why he was difficult to work with and I said let's figure out how we can do it where we don't turn on each other and a lot of it was about trying to pull Gary into spaces to get him to have a little more time to figure out the solutions and to make the work more fun for Gary so he wasn't just waiting on the writers to hand him solutions you know how could we get him more involved and in the process had certain key moments and you know it worked pretty well we remained friends at the end and he really liked the final season Adam Resnick also ran the final season was brilliant. So it is one of the great accomplishments of my life one of the funny things is when I was reading Gary's diaries I kept thinking he never slams me in these diaries I was so happy and then one day I opened the diary and there was a list of everyone who had disappointed him that year and I was number 3. Because I left the show one year to go make a movie and I wasn't there to help him saw I think it hurt him more than he he let on but it wasn't your performance as a comedy writer as the fact that you left to do something a project of your own yes and I didn't even know that he cared but I was there at that point I was young in a consulting producer I wasn't really in charge of anything I was just pitching jokes and trying to be helpful but I guess I guess that hurt his feelings. Ok so he got sick toward the end of his life Gary Shandling got sick to the end of his life he had hyper parathyroid is I'm not sure what that is and pancreatitis and I'm not exactly sure what that is either but so what are those conditions and how did they affect his his outlook on life and his ability to function well the thyroid issue. Affected you know Gary's brain it slowed him down and someone described it to me as almost mirroring what aging feels like so there were years where Gary felt like he was running out of gas or he was getting old but actually he had this condition which was fogging up his brain and he old really had an operation that dealt with it but I think as a result of it not being dealt with for a long time it may have contributed to paint the otitis which is cysts on his pancreas and he had to have a you know a life threatening operation to deal with that and part of the result of all this was that he did get foggy in his brain he he had years where you would see Gary and he would just seem like a mess and you didn't really ever know what it was what was it from being sick was he on medication Was he depressed and we all worried about him and Gary would you know would would say to me sometimes how do I seem you know what are people saying about me what do they think's going on and he had an awareness of and he was always trying to get more clear headed but he was fighting multiple illnesses. He died on March 4th 2016 he was 66 years old do you remember your last conversation with him. In the month before Gary died he was obsessed with getting the Larry Sanders Show. H.b.o. Should remain he wanted it to exist somewhere and we would talk and strategize about how to make that happen because it had been sold off in pieces to different entities and he was trying to get h.b.o. To buy all of it and to make it accessible and he wasn't sure if h.b.o. Is the place or not and I said well what is the issue Gary is it money do you are you trying to find a place that will pay you the most money or you just want to have it out there for the most people to see and he said I just want people to be able to watch it and we had a bunch of conversations about how to expedite that process and the morning that he died he got a call and his agent told him that h.b.o. Had closed the deal and they were buying play Santa show and they were going to run it and a few hours later he died and I not a believer that Gary knew he was going to die and that's why he was obsessed with getting the show seen but it it certainly was strange that he was so concerned with that issue at that time. As you say although we talked about the hyper parathyroid ism and pancreatitis that's not what killed him in the end he said wasn't the final thing that count. He died of a blood clot that. Moved from his leg. To his heart he had major dental surgery at a y. And he had a flu back home and. It there it may have been the result of his other medical problems that this developed Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is film director screenwriter t.v. And movie producer Judd Apatow and his new book is called it's Gary Shandling it's Book We'll be right back this is Fresh Air. The Supreme Court will take up the docket case next week testing the trumpet ministrations policy on immigration and next time on the New York radio hour we'll talk to 2 of the lawyers arguing before the court this is a rule of law cases involving hundreds of thousands of individuals who will be hurt by her brother and on Justified change in policy that's next time on the New York Radio Hour Monday evening between 9 and 10 on k c l u. M Jeremy Hobson comedian Garry Shandling died in 2016 but not before leaving an indelible mark a friend of mine said you should get married Gary you'll get a lot of new comedy material out of it. That's a huge risk what if I don't stand like Brandon mentee jet Avatar joins us to talk about the journals Shandling kept which are part of a new book next time on here to stay between 11 in the morning and one in the afternoon on k.c.a.l. You 88.3 in Ventura County. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is t.v. And movie producer writer and director Judd Apatow the person who gave him his break in comedy was Garry Shandling and Judd work with Garry Shandling on projects and now. A couple couple years like 3 years I guess after Gary shellings death he has a new book editing things from Garry Shandling life his journals interviews with other people about Garry Shandling interviews that Garry Shandling gave during his life and it's called it's Gary Shandling's book. You had to give a eulogy and I assume you wanted to give a eulogy at his memorial service and several comics including Sarah Silverman and Kevin Nealon gave you a G.'s and you had to decide whether to be serious are funny. Tell us how you decided what tone you wanted to take and then we'll hear what you had to say. I I I do you know sometimes you're just. So grief stricken that you don't even know how something got done you don't know how you wrote a speech or put together a memorial because you're you're just in a weird fever of sadness I you know I think we all felt that the best way to honor Gary would be to make a speech that was you know heartfelt and funny and Gary would wanted to be funny and you know it's something that it's hard to look back on and then know how how we got through it so I just tried to be sincere and do it in a way that I thought would make Gary laugh Ok so here's Judd Apatow as eulogy at Gary Shandling memorial. Very emotional to go down the rabbit hole of Gary but I feel like it's a lesson for me to just think very deeply about Kerry's life and his death and to learn from it it's odd that Prince just died because Gary and Prince were very similar. They really were no differences when you really get down to. Kerry was the prince of comedy. It was mysterious complicated sexually ambiguous. Alan was endless He was a brilliant performer who may or not have been high the entire time. He had great here both stood up against the man to get their back. And both were sexy as. Larry Sanders Show with Gary's Purple Rain It's Garry Shandling Show was his dirty mind. The Foley difference between the 2 men is that Gary I know you . Know that is the job Gary would have wanted and we. Messed it up to tell you a Gys ing Gary Shandling in that excerpt is included in the documentary that Judd Apatow made about Garry Shandling there's an diaries of Garry Shandling. So I mean I can hear you tearing up at the same time you're trying to you know say some funny things about Gary. Was it hard to hold it together while you're doing that oh I didn't I didn't hold it together. I just had to. Had to get through it you know Gary had so many friends there were a 1000 people at his well Morial service it was really a beautiful event and I made a few documentary pieces that were about 5 minutes long showing moments from his life and interviews with Gary and that's what made me want to do the documentary because in just preparing those I realized that that there was a story that people would like to hear and inspiration in his life and I think Gary . I wanted to try to find a way to figure out how to tell people about everything that's in the book and in the documentary and he hadn't figured it out yet so to me a lot of this work is you know completing something that Gary had started. So before we court we recorded our interview I went to see if you were on Twitter and what you've been tweeting about what you've told my God what you've been tweeting about is from from from Trump like lots of tweets about Trump lots of links to articles about Trump It sounds like you're in a very political frame of mind right now as are many people in America. Anything you want to say about that about how absorbed you've become politically judging from what you're doing on Twitter Well I follow it too closely my wife decided to not watch the news that much and she is getting younger by the day. Generated she looks like Millie Bobby Brown I look like a wartime president. I'm going gray fast it's all collapsing but I do feel like these are scary times and we have to speak up something really awful is happening you know we talk about all of the you know possible reasons for impeachment How about just lying 10000 times do we actually need more than that separate from our differences and how we should handle the economy or taxes or health care don't we just want to person that doesn't lie 10000 times and I I hope to encourage people to register to vote and to get other people to register to vote you know the percentage of people who vote is sos sadly low and we do have all the power to change things and get better people in charge of our government but people need to do the work to figure out how to vote to make sure their vote isn't suppressed which is happening. So I'm hopeful that people will go to the polls when it's time. To get up to tell us been great to talk with you again thank you so much thank you Judd Apatow his new book is called it's Gary Shandling this book tomorrow on Fresh Air My guest will be end rumor Rance a staff writer for The New Yorker and author of the new book anti-social on line extremists techno utopian and the hijacking of the American conversation he reported on the all right during and after the 2016 presidential election I hope you can join us. On this Veterans Day we send our gratitude to those who have served and our thanks to the families who have made sacrifices while a family member served. Well closed with music performed by the Bay State Winds the clarinet quartet of the Air Force band they're pretty. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller our technical director and engineers are Db and our associate producer of digital media is Molly. To Reese and Madden directed today's show I'm Terry Gross. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Indeed with its skills tests built for employers who want to see a deeper sense of the person behind the resume learn more it indeed dot com slash n.p.r. And from Total Wine and more where in-store teams can recommend a bottle of wine spirit or beer for any occasion shoppers can explore more than 8000 wines 2500 beers and 3000 spirits more a Total Wine dot com from the pollute the studios of California Lutheran University this is listener supported k.c. Oh you. Unemployment is at near record lows which means it's going to go back up. I just. Currently looking for work I've already applied for and. I'm waiting to hear if I am eligible. Are we ready for more unemployment the story next on. Tuesday at 3 in the afternoon also it's 6 30 in the evening on k.c.a.l. You n.p.r. For the California coast. Drug cartels are growing marijuana inside national forests and parks in the u.s. It's worth the risk for them I think to come out here and basically destroy our public lands our police and scientists in the California forest trying to stop trespass Pod and the poisonous chemicals used by growers that are threatening the food chain a quarter teaspoon could kill a 600 pound black bear on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News Tuesday from when you wake up and throughout your commute on k.c.a.l. You it's 9 o'clock. This is n.p.r. For the California coast 88.3. 1000 Oaks 2.3 f.m. 1340. 9.7. H.d. Santa Maria 2 point one in San Luis Obispo. The lawyer Ted Olson is a conservative champion he won the landmark Supreme Court cases Bush v Gore and Citizens United but when Olson appears before the court this week he's arguing against Donald Trump all we're asking is for the court to recognize that this administration and by the way not for the 1st time has acted in a and arbitrary fashion ready fire aim Olsen says that in canceling Obama's DACA policy putting so many immigrants at risk of deportation. The administration broke the law that's a rule of law involving hundreds of thousands of individuals who will be hurt on Justified change in policy reaches the Supreme Court that's ahead today on The New York Radio Hour. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm sure Rahm the house and pitchman in Korean to President Trump is moving into a new phase N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnston reports lawmakers will have a chance to question witnesses during public hearings set to get underway this week the House on Wednesday we'll hear from a to diplomats Bill Taylor the acting u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine and George can't the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and your Asian affairs their testimony comes as lawmakers continue to investigate whether President Trump used military aid as leverage to pressure Ukraine to dig up dirt on a political rival on Friday lawmakers will question former u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine bitch who was abruptly removed from her post earlier this year it's still unclear whether House investigators will subpoena a former national security advisor John Bolton who failed to appear for a closed door deposition last week when her Johnston n.p.r. News Washington former President Jimmy Carter is set to undergo a procedure on his brain Tuesday morning in Atlanta as a male Mahfud from member station. Reports It's meant to reduce swelling caused by bleeding after 2 recent falls the 95 year old has been admitted to Emory University Hospital where he'll have the procedure Carter's most recent fall came on October 21st when he suffered a broken pelvis he also got a black eye in early October is the result of another fall a statement from the Carter Center says the former president is at the hospital with his wife Rosalynn a male Moffitt from member station. International inspectors confirm Iran is a violating several asked.