Transcripts for KCHO 91.7 FM/KFPR 88.9 FM [North State Public Radio] KCHO 91.7 FM/KFPR 88.9 FM [North State Public Radio] 20180618 070000

Thank you to my guests today. And thank you for your company on this week. You can be in touch with me and they said by email the b.b.c. Ek and also details and information about this we are on the website for now for me to. See you next week. You are soon to s.p.r. North State Public Radio k c h o Chico and care of p.r. Reading listener supported public radio connecting the communities of Northern California a broadcast service of California State University Chico on the web at my n.s.p. Our daughter org. 'd this is news day from the b.b.c. . Donald. Trump speaks out. Tolerance policy on immigration introduced by her husband's administration. We're going to hear from a u.s. Congresswoman who has visited mothers in the detention center. Had been able to see their children or their children. These children were as young as one year old is of course the fault lies with. The country illegally. And the World Health Organization has. A medical condition for the 1st time so how worried should we be about that all coming up on news day from the b.b.c. World Service after the latest. Hello I'm Eileen McHugh with the b.b.c. News the president elect of Colombia Evander Kane has told supporters that he wants to see changes to the landmark peace deal agreed with rebels in 2016 but had his victory rally in the capital Bogota the 41 year old conservative pledged to unite the country following a divisive election campaign we started going in order with humility and honor I tell the Colombian people that I will give my energies to unite our country no more divisions let's think about our country for everyone because I want to be the president that gives the same love to those who voted for me as those who did I meet the far cleaner Roderigo and Daniel congratulated Mr Duke a saying the peaceful election was proof that the peace process was bearing fruit the former u.s. 1st lady Laura Bush has made an outspoken attack on the trumpet ministrations policy towards immigrants suspected of crossing the border illegally from Mexico Her comments come after President Trump's wife Maloney entered the immigration debate Chris Buckley reports in a rare statement millennia Trump said she hated to see children separated from their families and in a thinly disguised criticism of her husband's hardline approach towards immigration she said while America's laws needed to be followed the country also had to be governed with the heart of former 1st lady has gone even further writing in The Washington Post Laura Bush who lives in the border state of Texas called a 0 tolerance policy cruel immoral and heartbreaking an earthquake in the Western Japanese city of Asako has killed 3 people and injured scores of others one of those who died was a 9 year old girl who was trapped under a collapse wall the quake disrupted rush hour transport and left tens of thousands of homes without power many people were stranded on commuter trains. A row over his cell asylum which threatens to destroy and kill Americans coalition government in Germany is expected to intensify today the interior minister horse they hope for is on a collision course with the chancellor over his plan to reject migrants if they have already registered in another European Union country his c.s.u. Party will discuss the proposal Damien McInnes is in Berlin what we're seeing is a clash developing between interior minister and the Chancellor Angela Merkel because an interior minister wants to implement a plan to knock back many asylum seekers at the border of Germany Mrs Merkel really wants to hammer out an easy you wide solution with other European states so the question really is if Mr Holford the interior minister sticks to his guns and decides to implement this plan on his own this would mean that Mrs Merkel could be forced to sack him which words mean the government would collapse effectively and this could also eventually mean that she might have to step down herself world news from the b.b.c. . The King of Spain's brother in law in Yaki or Deng get in has been imprisoned on corruption charges following his trial last year he will serve 5 years and 10 months for embezzlement influence peddling and tax fraud the husband of Princess Cristina who was herself cleared of involvement becomes the 1st member of the Spanish monarchs family to go to jail on Wednesday Mr Deng getting was told he had 5 days to report to a prison to start his sentence the Taliban have resumed attacks on Afghan forces in Helmand turn Kandahar province's following the expiry of their 3 day truce marking the end of Ramadan 2 people are known to have been killed and several others injured on Sunday the Afghan president Ashraf Ghani announced a 10 day extension to a unilateral government ceasefire which had been due to end on June the 20th the security forces are allowed to defend themselves against a Turk. Addiction to electronic games has for the 1st time been officially rec. Nies is a mental health condition by the World Health Organization it is included gaming disorder in the latest edition of its international classification of diseases the gaming industry has disputed the evidence behind the w h O's decision but the former snooker world champion new Robertson spoke about his former addiction then you don't realise it's 12 or 14 hours you know it just goes like boom thank you and I was heavily addicted I've no doubt about that I just I denied it for many many years saying that I really need it when I travel away it's on porn whereas I wasn't sort of really confronting the real issue itself Dutch police say a vehicle has hit several people near a campsite her major music festival killing one and seriously injuring 3 others the driver fled following the incident at 4 am local time by the pink pop festival in the southern town of Lone tough there's no information about whether the incident was an accident or a deliberate act b.b.c. News. Good morning hello welcome it is Newsday from the b.b.c. World Service Good to have you with us this morning Clement on the pole coming up we're going to be talking about gaming is Dixon now the World Health Organization says it is a recognizable condition with the calling it gaming disorder a medical condition so how do you recognize whether you have it or not speaking to somebody from the old College of Psychiatrists on the one finding out how you can get help if you think you do you are addicted to work video. Games I'm never sure which one to call it talking about the World Cup Speaking of games 3 games today big games. My favorite so far is still the Panamanian game they are taking on Belgium Belgium Panama Sweden South Korea and England cheering is USA African teams in action today will look ahead to all the World Cup action in Russia here on news that. Some are calling them child concentration camps the former 1st wife Laura Bush wrote that the images were eerily reminiscent of the Japanese American in terming camps of World War 2 photos growing controversy in the u.s. Over President Trump's 0 tolerance policy on immigration Well those who try to cross the border many planning to seek asylum are placed in custody and face criminal prosecution for illegal entry as a result hundreds of children and are being housed in detention centers or Democratic Congress one j a pile has been fighting to change what's been going on she told me earlier watch she got involved we could go Friday I heard that 206 individuals were being transferred from the Texas border to a federal prison just south of Seattle which I represented in Congress and so I immediately called and was given access to go and visit those individuals in the prison on Saturday morning and what I saw and heard was just outrageous it was hard . Breaking and I promised these women that I would tell their stories the majority of them had been in detention for over 2 weeks and over 50 percent of them had been in various detention facilities for over a month not a one of them that had children had been able to see their children or talk to their children they had been forcibly separated these children were as young as one year old in some cases all except for 2 actually did not even know where their children were and President Truman would say this policy is hardline because it is all about cracking down on illegal immigration which puts a strain on the American economy which really needs to rise in crime tell us the stories that you had there what you were being told is these people were assigned and seek his they were fleeing persecution tell us some of the stories one woman had 3 children her oldest child had been shot and killed by gangs her 2nd child had been shot and paralyzed by gangs she left that child and she took her 3rd and final child to try to bring him to safety and she hadn't seen him and over a month since being separated from him they should have been given what is called a credible thier hearing which begins the process for asylum instead they are being prosecuted in mass prosecutions in the courts criminal courts 5075100 people at a time before one judge not able to talk to the judge or their public defender at all pleading guilty because they're being told that that's the only way they're going to see their children we cannot allow our government to do this we cannot allow our president to do this and I do believe that we are going to see mass protests in the streets mass mobilizations and Trump is going to have to reverse this policy that someone has a congresswoman from in a Champ House speaking to me anywhere we also heard from Jessica Vaughn she's. Director of Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies What does she make of this policy now it's not something that the trumpet ministration relishes they would rather keep the family in detention with the kids but the courts do not allow bat so the kids have to be held separately from the parents Ok so that's really interesting way you say the courts do not allow that because the trumpet ministration blames the Democrats for the situation well of course the blame lies on those people who decide to come here illegally in the 1st part but the law on how to process children who are separated from their parents was written by Democratic congressional staffers back in 2008. Republican president you know I mean the government's choice is either release everyone and basically facilitate illegal immigration or hold the children separately from the parents because that's what the court requires sometimes harsh things are necessary there are families in this country whose children have been separated from them permanently by illegal immigrants committing crimes to to stick to you may be proved wrong because immigrants don't go to a country necessarily And but in the lives of the other people that I said and how the hands of these moms and dads and cried with them about what happened to their children so I assure you this is not about statistics this is about people's lives yes but is it is it fair then to make a generalization and blame all immigrants for 4 particular cases which are very few and far between well I certainly didn't blame all immigrants I just said that the illegal immigration places burdens on the communities that are forced to accommodate people who arrive illegally and one of those burdens can. Be crimes that happen by people who shouldn't be in the country to begin with that is Jessica Von director of policy at the Center for Immigration Studies speaking to Cali shop. Let's get more on the news or the World Health Organization is classified gaming disorder that is getting addicted to playing computer games video games as a medical condition for the 1st time from today that is you new guidelines to help diagnose the tiny proportion of people who develop gaming addiction out of the millions who enjoy it or the gaming industry argues the evidence used for listing the disorder as a medical condition is highly contested and inconclusive Dr Henrietta Bowden Jones is a psychologist and spokesperson for the Royal College of Psychiatrists on behavioral addictions Henrietta welcome to News Day Good to have you with us thank you very much lovely to be here have you had you treat patients who have game disorders are correct so I am an expert in behavioral addictions and I'm ready to treat patients with gaming disorders but at the moment the n.h.s. Does not have a designated treatment center for these patients the 1st step is to recognize illness this is now happened through the w.h.o. And we now need to wait for the Department of Health to decide what to do next so gaming disorder is an illness and behavior addictions are treated very effectively I treat problem gamblers For example all day long in my clinic my national clinic and that is extremely successful so young people with gaming disorder issues will be able to be treated and get better when they manifest significant symptoms of gaming disorder but the centers will need to be set up in order for the staff to be trained up it's not like treating. I'll call disorders or heroin disorders you do need to be aware of what it means to have a behavioral addictions and also 1st of all. How do you know how do you know whether you or someone you know is addicted to gaming the main thing to look out for is a loss of control and loss of control means that you end up doing something far too much to the detriment of other commitments in your life and ease when as a child even the 12 year olds will have expectations placed upon them by her their school in terms of homework at their sporting clubs or their peers and when children start to prefer to be indoors gaming instead of actually participating in their real life commitments that's when you know something is going wrong and because gaming disorder can be mild moderate or severe and before that you have a period of at risk in terms of being vulnerable and showing displaying some of the symptoms it is important that parents teachers friends anyone who starts to get worried about this individual has a conversation with them because if we stop it early you havior addictions it's very easy to turn them around so you know you mentioned a 12 year old every gumming many adults play these computer games on I myself because I used to while known football game and I got so addicted to it that I had to get the person I was living with to hide the game so I didn't play and I was playing into the early hours of the morning and it was gonna take an over really is that a kind of thing you're talking about Absolutely and I thank you for sharing that with us so when you're an adult you have better Normally if you have better insight into it deciding how it's impacting on your life and doing what you did it is not is not unusual people may be compulsively playing something and then designing you know what this is just too much I'm not I haven't spent any nights with my girlfriend wife or husband or whatever so but when children are involved because they have higher levels of impulsivity anyway because a lot of them will not have. The insight at that younger age to make changes and to understand the impact on the future consequence of for example not doing the homework not passing their exams I mean children are not going to school when they have this illness sometimes because they actually can't face going in they want to stay at home with their gaming such as How do you have a conversation with your child what would you do just take it away and go cold turkey Do you rush try and rationalize them or if you can rationalize of I mean it's so so for the majority of children parents will be able to start rationing the amount of time on the games when the conversations had and both of them agree that too much time is being spent gaming and other things are suffering it's all about harm really the extent of the harm on the individual there will be people such as a woman who was speaking this morning. For children to find the game a bit and that's it and one of the games compulsively when that happens sometimes parents are faced with aggression with anxiety with depression from their children who are unable to separate from the gaming activity and that's when actually the professional services will come into play once they're set up the gaming industry they say that the evidence used for listing this disorder as a medical condition is highly contested and inconclusive Do you agree with that assessment and where does the responsibility lie for this addiction is it with parents or does the industry have a role to play now. To answer both questions it is a it has to be an issue filled with conflict because there are 2 opposing viewpoints the w.h.o. Has gone for the safer option which is to say although the prevalence will not be very high and I think all of us agree on that for the people who will be deemed to be addicted to games if we recognize it there will be adequate treatment and adequate treatment providers able to deal with it so that's the 1st my answer to your 1st question where does the responsibility lie I think it needs to initially be in the hands of parents teachers and later with the health department of health so I wouldn't say that the industry has any impact in terms of the treatment I think they should be aware that these products are can be highly harmful for a very small number of people and therefore there will be regulator issues I have no doubt they will come into play from now on really good to talk to you thank you for coming and speaking to us this morning many thanks and said Dr Henrietta Bowden joins us by Carters a spokesperson for the World College of psychiatry is on the gaming disorder which is now a medical condition for the 1st time as classified by the World Health Organization 19 minutes past the hour news day from the b.b.c. World Service let's talk about the new Thai king or Harvard Jihad a long call has been handed the purse strings to his family's vast wealth it is a major shake up of royal affairs and it's thought this will make him the richest monarch in the world our business reporter Lucy Burton is here with more so why the change then you say well there's a very good question to her the new king has been given a personal control a $30.00 to $60000000000.00 worth of family money which brings new meaning to the term $7.00 wealth doesn't it is a rather interesting move because up until last year the riches were administered by a quasar governmental trust thanks to laws dating back to 1936 and this moves it means that the money will be lie. Will take place and the same as any Thai citizen although admittedly most Thai citizens don't include swathes of Bangkok real estate and stake in the Siam National Bank and their portfolio the law which transferred this money of him also prohibits the removal of any assets without his approval now the country has very strict letter majesté laws mean that very few people will criticizes me for doing so they could and then a prison sentence but it does seem to demonstrate that the King is standing his own authority on to the throne which he inherited from his father in 2016. Thank you very much for joining us with an update Matthew Kenyon a coming something was happening in the World Cup games today we heard games today the world got Belgium against Panama which is Belgium's 1st ever gets a Belgium's Panama was going to say I'm in the World Cup you're going to write. Before that Sweden South Korea and later on tonight Tunisia against England and I suspect that if England don't do well against Tunisia don't necessarily mean win the game but don't do well against China have a similar experience to that which Germany are having this morning chaos and humiliation are some of the headlines that we're talking about in Germany after that defeat to Mexico yesterday Brazil Drew resort slim last night but England chin is here live on the b.b.c. Across most of sub-Saharan Africa later on tonight the game is in Volgograd and we can talk to our correspondent Sara Rainsford who is there Sara let's talk about the England fans usually in very great numbers at international tournaments we've seen loads and loads of Peruvians are Mexicans and many people from around the world is there a sense that there are rather fewer England fans than there might have been expected this time round. Definitely yeah it's a really nice round here of having been found so it's really noticeable I mean as they say in England trouble with that team but they have already traveled here in great numbers to Volgograd I've just been speaking to the fans supporters group here and they were saying they think it's around about 2000 in total coming to Volgograd and they reckon that's the slot the lowest number that's ever traveled to any World Cup it's all said to me why is that and they said well there are a number of things obviously there's the politics but they reckon that's probably the least important things they found they talk of course about the Euro 2 years ago the time in France in musée of course with that troubled of the violence with Russian hooligans and England supporters clashing in the streets noms I think is the key factor and you know talking to fans here themselves they do say that they were really quite wary about coming here to Russia particularly to this 1st game and a lot of them when I was around town yesterday last night in particular you know they weren't wearing a carrot keeping a pretty low profile you know just just waiting to sort of test the atmosphere and see whether they felt comfortable enough to put their colors on and starting to this morning but certainly you know it was a pretty wearing a pretty small England Yeah and yet more just most generally watching the 1st few days of this World Cup It has seemed like a very relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere for most people is that the widest sense you get watching Russia 2018 as you travel around the country. It is the I mean Moscow when I when I left that was the city like I'd never seen it before and I've you know lived there for for quite some years and it is a completely transformed Russian capital and Volgograd to you know there's a lot of people out on the streets they're out of Tunis the end found wrapped in their flag and there are lots of Russians as well of course out some during the the the basically that the party there is here you know the volunteers teams of volunteers going around lots of music in the streets lots of street cafes just a noticeable difference I think it's the the absence of obvious England fans as you might expect it of things one of them but I'm right next to the massive giant statue of Mother Russia here involved grout you know this is a stunning city and Mother Russia herself is this 85 meter tall statue holding up her sword into the blue bright blue sky here over the majestic river Volga and you know there are fans here there quietly coming up and coming to visit this this site the site to see in Volgograd which now has a new site and in fact down below which is the the brand new stadium that was built for this tournament and that's where obviously England will kick off against an insulated today I don't have saying where you're standing share and it does look really really amazing thanks very much indeed for joining us sure arranged for it live from Volgograd England against him as you live on the b.b.c. Later here on the b.b.c. World Service if you're across most of sub-Saharan Africa before that 2 other games will round it all up again and for ahead to tomorrow's action on tomorrow morning program going to have to goes on to beat Spain Portugal Yeah you are yeah still my joke about you know my goodness like watching a rerun right now Matthew thank you let's end in France in the region which has seen a sharp rise in wolf attacks with farmers now laying down poison and shooting at the animals to try and protect their livestock have been around 90 sheep and cows attacked in the region so far this year part of a rising trend over the past few years and there are signs that the wolves are becoming bolder Paris correspondent Lucy Williamson has been to the region to investigate. We have a hole in France's Deep South is famous for its scenery forested mountains beautiful rivers ancient villages and farmland but this popular tourist destination is now becoming increasingly famous for its wolves out of almost 90 attacks on livestock so far this year has been ruled out as just a handful of them and farmers here say the problem is rapidly getting worse. Every morning my 1st thought is has my flock been attacked. Is a sheep farmer in the village of scented early December he lost 30 sheep last year but he says the government isn't willing to admit there's a problem and farmers have been laying down poison in desperation or even trying to shoot the wolves themselves. It's like a robbery if I get robbed 123 times then under the law the police will intervene with wolves it's the same Psychologically speaking but in response the state says sort it out yourselves Historically there were attacks on humans mainly old people and children if a child is attacked tomorrow then everything will change John Paul and his neighbors began gathering d.n.a. Evidence last year to prove that a wolf was behind the attacks instead his results showed that there were in fact many wolves involved Ted so far. More than $200.00 sheep were killed in every home last year and even right at the start of the summer almost half that number have been killed so far this year the wolves have begun attacking in broad daylight and moving on to larger animals the deputy head of the departmental administration law of add says they have concrete d.n.a. Results for just one Wolf and that evidence is often too unreliable to use Contra was having tree for example. When you have a sheep that's been killed and then picked over by vultures or other creatures we can be left with just bones and we can't say from the bones whether it might have been a wolf or something else so those cases are registered as undetermined. One local man has said children under 10 years old should not walk outside alone for fear of attack but today activists say the Wolf poses little threat to people here and should be allowed to return. Manual outman is a local activist who says he's been threatened for trying to protect the wolves they're returning to every home from other parts of France he says because sheep here unless protected see the bubble shouldn't the bass pulled it just like leaving sweets on a low table and telling children not to touch them if you don't protect their flocks with dogs or shepherds for example you're heading for failure in territories like this where the sheep are dispersed over large areas for grazing they'll be an explosion of attacks in every row over the next few years I mean it will be a catastrophe. At home size and to rain make it difficult to protect with traditional dogs and fences so France is national government is now looking at new measures to contain the problem but any solution is likely to divide ever homes farmers and residents from its environmental activists in the age old route of conservation who need protecting from whom indeed now Paris correspondent Lucy Williamson reports on the hunter becoming the hunted or something like you know what the French for Wolf is no go on he's loop loop Ok to say it like not have to look up online that's not moderating mystics go I thought you were going to say Wolverine than Wolverine Well you know what does that sound really what it's being this was a live die I'm reading about the feral boy who apparently was. Taught by wolves in that bit of France sounds like a good story and one will have to pick up pick up tomorrow I can tell me more about it now if you know I can't we only have to. Look it up it's a real life Jungle Book You can read about it online that was news to. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the us is made possible by American Public Media with support from Home Advisor matching homeowners with home improvement professionals for a variety of home projects from repairs to remodels homeowners can read reviews and book appointments online at Home Advisor dot com And Dana Farber Cancer Institute with more than 800 clinical trials underway so patients have more options more at Dana Farber dot org slash beat cancer. The lazy days of summer are on their way but that's no excuse desire now and while you might be taking a break this summer the news is now decision to allow states to permit sports betting one benchmark hit $77.00 a barrel this Act passes it will be one of the broadest when you listen to Morning Edition you start your day fully awake even if you're waking up around a beach somewhere listen every day. Killing insects you wouldn't think it was a controversial topic given the diseases and crop destruction some of them cools but it can be as you'll hear in this week's discovery I'm out of hearts a scientist who studies and loves insects but who also kills them this got me into trouble recently I'll explain why and explore how killing insects by the 1000000 is vital for their conservation and the many great things they do for us discovery is out of the news. B.b.c. News with Aileen McHugh a conservative political newcomer Evander Kane has been elected president of Colombia at a victory rally in the capital Bogota he pledged to unite the country following a divisive campaign that he said he wants to see changes to the historic but controversial peace deal agreed with Fark rebels 2 years ago Mr took a security 54 percent of the vote beating his left wing challenger Gustavo Petro a strong earthquake in a soccer Japan has killed at least 3 people including a child and injured more than $200.00 airports in the area were closed for several hours train lines just interrupted and factories had to halt production the King of Spain's brother in law in Yaki or dangling has been imprisoned on corruption charges following his trial last year he will serve 5 years and 10 months from Basil mint to influence peddling in tax fraud the husband of Princess Cristina is the 1st member of the modern royal family to go to jail Dutch police say a vehicle has hit several people near a campsite at a major music festival killing one and seriously injuring 3 others the driver fled following the incident at 4 am local time by the pink pop festival there's no information about whether the incident was an accident or a deliberate act. In Germany over asylum policy which threatens Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition government could deepen today the c.s.u. Party of the interior minister horsey however will meet to discuss his plan to reject migrants at the border if they're already registered in another you country and the current us 1st lady Maloney a trump and a previous says certain Laura Bush of both issued statements condemning a controversial policy that splits up families who illegally enter the country under President Trump 0 tolerance policy hundreds of children and babies are being housed in detention centers and kept away from their parents b.b.c. News. You're listening to Discovery Science in-depth from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Adam hearts and I'm an entomologist I study insects in this half hour I'm going to lift the lid on one of the more controversial aspects of my field of research the very large numbers of insects that we kill in the name of science. So in here I've got a jar this is called a killing jar it's got it labeled killing jar at the bottom of it I've got plaster Paris that's because it was sauce the liquid that I put in there while it turned into a gas. This is our killing fluid here I only need a tiny drop of this in there and this sealed it's airtight. It's quite small killing jar because obviously I want to kill least in Texas quick as possible it's not something that I take any pleasure in and I want it done as ethically correctly and quickly as I possibly can. They will actually be dead within within seconds entomologist Sally and Spence uses a traditional killing jar to kill the dung beetle she collects for her studies other insects scientists pop their subjects into the deep freeze while some of us go for death by alcohol we'd like to make a very simple and hang it up like Arthur and then send us there last night so how do we do that well. This is my colleague Syrian summer from University College London on b.b.c. Television last year she's talking about our big wasps survey a nationwide citizen science project we devised to survey the distribution and abundance of the U.K.'s 8 species of social wasp. That half air kind of larger in a Boston is a bacterium else that's really the guise of. Being individual for that into that so I was all going to die in the name of science does that bother you at all. Because the impact that these traps are going to have almost populations will be negligible we were very excited we don't actually know that much about how social wasps are being affected by environmental change but we do know that they're very important as pollinators and as predators of pests but with bees getting all the media attention and wasps being well not exactly popular wasp research doesn't generally get much of a look and we believed we could get some new important data but the headlines in some national newspapers told us that not everyone was as excited about the project as we were conservationists hateful survey promoting was building public urged to drown wasps in beer in bizarre conservation project criticism and abuse on social media rapidly followed although plenty of scientists were quick to jump to our defense the negative reaction to what I've always regarded as absolutely vital the killing of insects to collect and study them was a bit of a shock it got me thinking can we really defend the deaths of millions of insects for the sake of science indeed does the science ever justify what someone social media described as the slaughter is especially when we're so concerned about insect conservation how do we feel about killing our subjects and might insects themselves be feeling something akin to pain that last question is one I'll be tackling in the next episode of discovery but to begin to answer the others I visited the lab at University College London to which members of the British public have sent the wasps they trapped in the 1st week of last September. So inside this freeze that we can just have a look at it. You can see it's full of life yes yeah family members all being sent by people from all over the country and if we just take one out for example we can see that they've got the track number and I can look at that database and see exactly where in the country that's come from. Peggy Bevan and Susie want to students working with Syrian summer to identify the different species in 2000 or so trapped content sent in Unfortunately these mass surveys are something you just can't do with Live was. Definitely someone else in here. So I'll just pick it out with some forceps to try and separate it from there a few of the flies that are in there can you identify them for us what you need a bit more a bit more work with these I think that one is. Shaped Oh yeah you need to get up close to you and I was to look at the features to also see which which of course is going to be very difficult to do with a live was yet there is no one here as you know where I'd be able to identify them . As well you know if that's one of the questions we had from people inquiring about that because Couldn't we ask them to send in photos instead I'd love to be able to say yes that sadly the quality of the photo that you get from a life was passing through your garden is just not good enough and also even though the face markings are quite indicative of the species you do need to verify the markings on the back of the 4 act as well you know to be 100 percent certain of the species identity in such a small and tricky to identify to get the data we needed we had to have the wasps from all over the u.k. Under a microscope so what was the big problem that people had with our survey chief among our critics was Matt shadow chief executive of the invertebrate conservation charity bug life I guess the 2 main things that worried about that project was that . It started with a slogan that said that it was harnessing the hatred of the British public for the water and as an organization that doesn't hate wasps that was quite difficult for us to stomach we think that we should be trying to encourage people to understand and tolerate and live alongside wasps rather than get into conflict situations so that was a difficult phrase to deal with and I think it got us I think of on to the wrong foot we took your point on board about harnessing the hatred in fact we got rid of that strap line before that website went public we then had a hard look at the scientific rationale for the project because when you're looking at killing life insects or any other animals we think that that should be carefully justified so there's no absolutes here there are gray areas and in that grey area you know we would say if you've got a really good reason for killing the invertebrates for instance if killing that inverter means you can then save 100000 other invertebrates then as Spock on Star Trek might say you know the value of that one life has to give way to the value of the many other lives but in this case when we looked at the reasons why insects were going to be killed primarily was but also other things this scientific rational didn't seem carefully enough worked out for us to believe that the outcome in terms of data and knowledge justified the amount of killing of insects that would be going on naturally we didn't agree with Matt for example we minimise the impact on what populations by surveying at a time of year when the wasps flying around were likely to be non-reproductive work wasps towards the end of their lives rather than next year's Queen's. In total we estimate the project caught as we predicted about the same number of workers you'd find in 2 nests to put that into context pest control is every year destroyed thousands of nests in people's roofs and sheds. While the big wasp survey might have had its detractors for killing a few 1000 insects one of the most reported and lauded scientific discoveries of last year entailed the deaths of millions scientists in Germany have reported what they describe as an alarming drop in the population of flying insects they found you might remember it research over the last quarter century in Germany revealed a staggering 75 percent decline in the overall mass of flying insects they've gotten of the University of Sussex was one of the authors this is really serious you know insects are vitally important they make up the bulk of life on Earth they do all sorts of things that we can't do without like pollinating being food for for most birds and bats and so on so if that study hadn't taken place we'll be sitting here with no idea quite what a crisis was looming but to find out that insects were declining so dramatically required insect death on a grand scale more than 50 kilograms worth died in the course of the study the way that insects were sampled was using a thing called the Malays trap or are actually dozens of Malays traps dotted all over Germany. Looks a bit like a team which tend it's basically a couple poles and a load of netting and insects bump into it as they're flying about and when they hit it they tend to hit the netting they tend to walk up words and it's kind of designed at the top a bit like a lobster pond they fall into a pot of alcohol and they die they catch pretty much all flying insects so butterflies moths be flies all sorts of things and the entomologist puts the trap and then it just comes back 24 hours later and empties the pot Personally I hate those trucks because they catch so much but in this instance the data that have been produced are all incredibly important and valuable and of course people around the world to sit up and notice. And to try and sort of take some perspective on the number of insects we killed would be. Infinitesimally small proportion of the number of insects in Germany much as it makes me uncomfortable killing one insect if you don't have to and there were times when I think you just just have to accept but the benefit of the harm so long as you're careful in how you design your experiment and you minimize the harm. A winter's day in Southern England is not ideal for collecting insects but I did stand some chance in a field of sheep and cattle in the company of Sally and Spence she can go on over the other side no quite not there are cattle in this field. Next to cattle and whether a cow paths and sheep down there should be done beetles. Despite fresh dung but in the summer time fresh dung would already be colonized straight away by dung flies and out of other insects coming straight in but what I'm doing is I'm picking up some dung and I have what we call hand searching it you're picking fruit with you'll think I'm crazy for getting through it with my fingers so I've got some gloves on we do have winter active dung beetles which is what I'm looking for when I think of dung beetles and generally thinking of big black scarab beetles basically your picking through just dying can't find detail are we looking for something a little bit different from what I'm imagining and we got the big fine you know the real big chunky scar beetles that you talked about we had they tend to live in tunnels underneath the doll and they're putting the dunk down into tunnels into a data foundation line to understand more about the species this is an ongoing survey run by Oxford University's Museum of Natural History dung beetles are very useful insects they're the 1st step in getting the nutrients bound up in dung back into the ecosystem. With less dung hanging around for less time it's also less able to have a parasites that can harm our livestock. But each dung beetle species has a different name and the subtly different ecological role which is why Sally m. Needs to collect and identify multiple sites around Britain. Now some species she can either get the cow path but others she has to take back to the lab where the Beatles go into the killing job we met earlier then it's under the microscope for identification which can be rather more involved and intimate than you might think it doesn't always stop on the external factors of a beetle dung beetles as with many beetles they basically can have very different from each other as well sometimes it might be necessary to remove that William because when it comes out the body it's got next to a skeleton which means it doesn't do great with the rest the soft tissues we have books full of borings very very graphic if you like very specific drawings of dog meat and Willy's I can possibly tell different species by that I cannot unfortunately do that with the animal life once you've identified that and what happens to its body then its body is not thrown away that's one thing that's very very important that animal is then mounted on the pen pins were put in after the animals are dead and we use a pen for many reasons because that specimen is going to be kept for infinity so that individual will be kept out a pen and it will have its immediate data attached to that page so that individual is literally with its data within the museum facility but I do need to have those individuals because I need to be absolutely 100 percent certain of what species it is because it can be looking live very similar to another beetle but inhabit and have an effect on a totally different part of the environment around it and these specimens are kept for a city and they can be accessed for many different uses so it might be somebody who's studying the effects of that particular species all the parasites in life stock I'm breaking down the dung or it could be for climatic change or it can be for a myriad of reasons more reasons in the future that I not go thought of now in my life time. Whoever comes back in 50 years time into that collection can actually access the individual that I picked up in that field and all the data i Pad that day when I collected it it is there it is definite hard evidence and that's really important for the baseline of data we don't know what we're losing until we know what we've got. That's a message that echoes all around the vast entomology department at London's Natural History Museum just the beetle collection contains around 10000000 specimens as it stands there are about 400000 different beetle species described by scientists but according to senior beetle curator Max Barclay there are many more out there to be discovered. The bodies of species new to science are coming into the museum all the time and these specimens are particularly important Max showed me some of the latest from a recent West African expedition. Running down the middle of the trail here are the most amazing looking weevils I'm guessing but they're beautiful ruby red iridescence with these turquoise kind of green lines across and they're one of those people beetles I've ever seen I notice they have a red label under them is that significant the red label is very significant Actually this indicates that those are type specimens and a type specimen is the original specimen of a new species so if you or I were to describe a species as new to science we'd have to publish a paper explaining why it was new and that would have to be peer reviewed by the scientific community so you set out your reasons that it's new and you'd label some specimens up as type specimens which are the ones that you had in front of you when you described a new species so if you want to know what I was talking about when I gave a name to a species in a 100 years time when I'm dead you can go back and look at my type specimens and you can see that's what he had in mind that's what he meant when he said it has a yellow stripe on its head that sort of yellow stripe not the sort of yellow stripe so the type specimens of the versions of the new species and back up that set of characters that define a new species in a public institution where they can be consulted for all time and by experts from all over the world My name is. On the. Money from all of us from the rest of Nigeria. And I want to come up with Philip University College London the insects that have bought quite on a from Nigeria to the u.k. Of bees and social wasps both groups are hugely important pollinators of Nigerian crop plants but little is known about the many individual species great diversity of peace was in my own 3 borders no doubt of the species of bees I was in Nigeria enough in particular journeys no record of the number of species available in any cept in South Africa bald. Estimates of about 3000 different species of the. Indicus off was deduct that on the species diversity is very scanty if not the 1st publication on Social was of Africa was from 1000 for 10 and the 2nd was if you 5 and since then there is no research on the worst diversity of Africa so when is comes to the number of valuable species in Africa is does not exist so the natural history museums vast collection of dead bees and wasps from all over Africa is an invaluable resource for the Nigerian research we were 1st off form a coalition from Nigeria and we brought it along don't bother with tonight's Rock History Museum we are comparing what we collected from what is of valuable in that their history so we are now identified and digitizing them for use by scientists you have to kill them all when you kill there you can now see that in my country we have content species of bees and these ideas be he's. Found within the concrete desire to suffer the ecological So in that this does I had people interested in the behavioral he put in his own bodies we cannot assess. On the species for his thousands. Moderately Johnnie's no volition of a close beside this is offered by the species because the not normal but when the. Ecologist passed and the putting issuance of visions can be quantified in terms of economical and people we come to appreciate the species another in the particulars of individual b. Species in Nigeria could also have medical applications a great one is the stingless bees is a case in point research has shown darts the honey made by stingless bees to microbial activities different stingless bees moves different types of honey with different activities for difference Tyria So for the 2 microbial activity of disordered dusting this beast means to be used effectively the species that make the honey has to be known for instance if the whole humid by a particular species is falling to be very very effective. Yes You know I mean you can be thrilled to be. Oh no more. Commercialised for wide use. So there are economic arguments for killing and curating large numbers of insects in museums the value of these collections is enhanced by having multiple examples of the same species but securely if the insects have been amassed over decades and centuries beetle curator Max Buckley each person's got a label on it saying who collected it what it was doing where it was just graphical information left to the longer chewed time of year so all of the scientific information that's linked to the collection of the specimen is put on a label with us and when you accumulate specimens of the same thing over a period of 2 or 300 years as we have been a natural history museum you can answer questions that you wouldn't necessarily have expected to be able to answer at the time when you are laying down specimens so one of the questions that we're using the collection Torrence are a lot nowadays is about how changing climate is affecting the distribution of insects including insect vectors of diseases including insect pests but also insects in general so if you get a short lived species where the adult only lives for a few days and you see what day of the year it's been collected in $820.00 and compare that with $920.00 and compare that with null then you can perhaps see that it's coming out earlier which you'd expect if the climate was becoming milder You can also see that in the 19th century species that was confined to the south coast might by the middle of the 20th century up as far as Birmingham so things are actually moving geographically as a response to changing environment you will see a decline in some species you will find that in the 19th century anybody who went out with a net would find the species of that species and in the 20th century that species may have to acquire land and in some cases disappear in other cases later cover and once you go. That data of whether things have increased or decreased in range and in the abundance you can start inferring why that might be so in a sense these are a library that we can go into and take information from our New research questions of exactly database of information but it isn't just a name with the information there's also the vultures Testament that allows you to double check that information in there 400000 species of beetle have been described by scientists and many of these are known from only one of whose persons that might be sitting in a museum somewhere in western Europe or in North America and nobody's ever seen since and this might be because nobody's looked in some cases and it might be because this because this is no longer there and I had a scientist recently from Argentina who came to visit the collection and he said Could I take a few specimens of this as a nation to the museum by the stars and I thought yes of course you can but this is the species that comes from Argentina Surely you have plenty of those and is with the most persons of tall and 40 or 50 of them and it's a large beetle and apparently this was something that was quite common in one sector is when one is there is was a small settlement and there were a few British tourists in the early 19th century who picked up a few specimens and then the city grew until it completely filled the basin that occupied the species obviously became extinct and if there was holidaymakers hadn't picked up on specimen when they did it would never have known that species exists and so then it was there is grows you get a scientist who is interested in this group of insects and never seen the species which was a common large species in his city so he was able to come here and see what lived in his city 15200 years before he was born which is quite interesting Max Barkley argues the efforts to capture and collect insects by institutions light . The Natural History Museum must continue it's essential he says to build up an archive of our vanishing biodiversity Unfortunately human influence is spreading over the planet at a very great rate the population is rising of course and. The amount of natural habitat is going to decrease and I was think of it has almost one is working with an art gallery which is on fire and one is trying to rescue as much of the information of at least what the paintings and sculptures were before they're destroyed and this is effectively what we're doing is we're going into these habitats and we're collecting specimens and we're archiving individual specimens that represent species that are present in the natural habitats and 150 years time 200 years time who knows whether those pieces will still exist I think one of the things that people struggle with when they come into museum when they see the numbers is just the volume of insects if you like that we collect as part of science how would you justify to someone who looks at a trial like this and feel so discussed if you like of the loss of life how would you justify the value and importance of this type of collection to someone like it's a difficult question it's important I think to emphasize the value that a collection like this how an offset that against the loss of individual insect lives I mean all of us in this business we love and sex we don't like killing things nobody actually enjoys going out and killing things but in terms of numbers the amount of insects that we collect on an expedition is fewer than killed on the windscreen of your car if you drive from London to Edinburgh in the summer habitats in good condition and it's not degraded insects exist in enormous numbers because the bottom of the food chain everything eats them so every problem in your garden is going to eat several 100 insects as many insects as there are in this case every day insects are a bus to prove. Nation and this is really just a form of predation the number of entomologists in the world is really very very small compared to the number of births and the number of people who are driving long distance. Insect collections are archives of immense scientific value and the number of insects we entomologists kill in the course of our sampling is tiny in the scheme of things. But for some people it isn't just a question of ensuring that we don't endangered species or populations with our collecting what if individual insects suffer pain or distress in the course of scientific research after all some of our tree experiments on insects are extremely invasive should scientists afford insects the same welfare concerns they now show towards animals such as lab rats and mice that's what I'll be exploring in next week's discovery from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Adam Hart's the producer is Andrea Baker. You are in tune to m.s.p. Our North State Public Radio k c h o Chico and care.

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