What happened was I had just gone to work last week or just it just any old day it wasn't nothing special about that day and where is this and where is this just to make where I live little McNairy Pennsylvania where about 15 miles south of Pittsburgh Ok and the year jet is 199-1990 so I was looking around you know admiring the department notice Hank a lobster tank and there were only 2 raptors in that Hank one she says was really small but the other one is just. That but. Asked. How big is big in this case he was like the tip of my finger to my elbow I think so she sees this big lobster and she's like that tank is way too small she thought the lobster looked crimped so she goes over to the guy behind the seafood counter and yeah she said What are you going to do is this a lobster and he kind of let me know that it was a promotional for the new the food department I was just this big lobster that would get sent around to different supermarkets when they wanted to attract attention and I just made a few more inquiries and worked my way up to the store manager and he referred me to the vice president and then straight away oh yeah oh yeah because they didn't they couldn't answer my question I probably was a little bit of a pain right like what are you going to do with them. This is the moment where the manager of the store decided Ok we have a complaining lady I think I can solve the problem he makes her head off the bottom line was that I could have him if I were a trained your return. She could have him if she could somehow get him back to Maine to maybe I don't know I guess all lobsters are from Maine he thought so that's the offer like. How do I do that. This is the question is this is it I mean usual experience or maybe this is one case this actually has a long history of people rescuing large lobsters That's Trevor Corson He's the author of What is it The Secret Life of lobsters Yeah the secret life of a lobster some people may remember the story of Mary Tyler Moore know in 1994 Mary Tyler Moore developed a crush on a large lobster 12 pounder who is named Mr Grant he was seen by. In Malibu California in a restaurant called Gladstone and she put up a $1000.00 for the right to rescue him wows in dollars and then Rush Limbaugh heard about this and he called the restaurant and offered 2000 dollars for the right to eat spike. Well so what did the restaurant do then he refused refused. And there's been other cases since then ever told us that he's actually right about Doesn't these lobster rescue stories but our lobster story is the original lobster story the very 1st I don't want to make the claim forever for sure but I'm just saying is that if you Googled it this is your opening lobster are so it's still 990 s. Bonnie having now left the supermarket she's at home thinking now I really I don't know what to do and she doesn't have the lobster yet she has no lobster yet that was when I started calling some of the local animal organizations animal rescue Lee a few days this work really trying to see if it was anybody out there they could help and I really wasn't there them wanting to mammals don't cry I never even heard of them they basically told me forget it so what are we talking weeks of research here 7 hours really I was on the phone for our little obsessed and I had the time and it was kind of fun to sit on the project for you know it's a project and then I called the Cousteau Society because I was a member of it because. They suggested I call I will call this paper. It's. Oh. Morning where. Perfectly 50 to 100 years for those big. Hairy morning. And there was a woman on the other end. Turning that afternoon. And they know him made Portland Maine so I figure I'll just bring him back with me and what we. Think to do something like that because he was a massive lobster in a teeny weeny tank that literally he could barely move now there's one other thing I remember she was back in Pittsburgh for her dad's funeral so is this in any way and. Oh my God he loved lobster absolutely loved to eat lobster to eat lobster Yeah he would eat them like crazy but he also loved that his oldest daughter would do things that none of his other kids would ever do you know he would know that I would do something like that he would expect me to do something like So anyway Tony and Danny there on the phone their 1st funny is actually a little suspicious and are you sure you're not saying that you know because I mean I said No I would need anything this big you know he's too old I was he reassured me and she had a very nice so we agreed to meet at Chinese state and. Then turned down any of my daughter my youngest. Joy needle and the woman she met us at the store he had a. Lighter and she was there with the manager and I didn't know there was going to be epic I remember there. Being a. Time which really still was a little too small for me. And we got him in there taped it up as best we could. And then when we got to the airport we get up to the reservation does handed him to the stewardess and she put him in chair in 1st class what kind of a flight let's just say I'm going to retire and coach this lobster's up in the 1st class though the plane then touches down in Portland Maine where the wildlife police are waiting and yeah Is anyone able to determine what everyone here seems to have assumed that this lobster comes from Maine no fact it probably wasn't caught here why do you say that in Maine you can't tell. Big lobsters like that that's illegal because the big lobsters are the ones that make more babies oh they have size limits that they have on their lobsters So you're bringing a lobster then to a venue that use reasonably suspect is a foreign place of foreign country. But he could make friends. The next morning in the harbor patrol called and said you want to go with us we're going to put him in the water. So we jumped on their boat and a newspaper reporter went out on the boat with them that morning to Ok I mean this is from Maine Bonnie read it to us after 1 pm at the Marine patrol boat 30 feet of water. Rushing to think of the happy fog shrouded water and. Then grand dad he made and. His mates. But here's the real deep question here. When we look at our fellow creatures we decide who can lead who do we want to protect we include some groups and we exploit others seems almost entirely arbitrary For example why would someone save this lobster Yeah I mean a lobster is not cuddly by any stretch of imagination and certainly not soft I mean was it was it its beauty Well I actually think. That lobsters are very attractive really unique Do you always think I have always thought you know they're a lobster is like it's it's how can I say this properly for radio. If they're muscular and curvaceous at the same time really Popeye arms those claws and then there's that nice curving tail and I just think that you must love the calendar. Just as I'm not those are 8 I'm not talking about that on the radio. I think that's just weird that can be the reason why people keep saving laughter No No What is it I think that it has partly to do with our obsession with longevity. When it's when it's one that that big and that old suddenly the rules are changed here is here is a creature you know that has made it through all the tests of life and it deserves our respect now he was he was unique he was special. To be in that age and. Everything kind of converged at that moment. And I really I can't. Say I went with that. Thank you bad I thought of dropping. But when I. Realized he was kind of attractive in his own right and as if you could take me. Coming up we move from the sea to dry land where we're going to meet yet another animal in this case has stolen not just the hearts but frankly the minds of an entire Caribbean nation so you should stay tuned for that hey this is by the calling from Portland Oregon. Put it in part by the Alfred p. Sloan Foundation. Understanding of Science and Technology in the modern world more information about Sloan at. A radio this is. Radio. By progressive insurance provider designed to help customers consider options for. Comparison The Progressive. $1800.00 progressive Now that's progress. It's $1114.00 at Central Coast public radio listening to Radio Lab support for x. Comes from listeners like you and from Castro sellers presenting the whale Rock Music and Arts Festival on September 15th and 16th its 2 days 2 stages 17 bands yoga art wine craft beer and grub learn more at whale rock music festival dot com support also comes from Alex read over in your resort a Mediterranean inspired refuge in Paso Robles surrounded by vineyards and orchards blending the region's food and wine experience at Chello Ristorante and bar learn more at allograft resort dot com. That lime doesn't cut it very much I get really powerful it's basically straight yeah this is a very traditional Guadeloupe in Drake called. As in punch as in Punch ready Hey I'm Jad Abumrad I'm Robert Krulwich Radio Lab today we're going to go off to an island Yeah a small little corner of the globe which in its very surprising way is trying to figure out how to understand Buffett itself and protect itself against the whims of the wider world here. Comes to us from our reporter Simon Adler So I want to go out to loop a couple a couple weeks back they're going to go there which is this French overseas Department basically a territory of. Guadalupe the loop is this series of islands in the Caribbean bit east of Puerto Rico and 400 miles north of Venezuela more or less. Ok so just landed on the runway we landed on here was it was just Davenport on both sides but the super lush green on it walls of the floor I have no idea what they were and the story I want to tell actually starts. On a watermelon farm it's Ok if I park here are. Owned by this couple Sally and Lois thank you so much for being willing to do that they look to be in their late forty's. So Sally had on a pair of glasses t. Shirt and cut off bluejeans just into the shoes my wife and Lois Nice to meet you you know I mean she was wearing one of those floppy hats and big rubber boots. So you are born here in one of them yeah I was on the ground as part of the I was born in point up it's so after growing up in Guadalupe and graduating so they decided to get off the island for a bit went overseas for work in Guyana. Ghana met Lois soul and fell in love. It's true anyway then I came back to 20 years ago. To establish myself in the farming area by this farm right here actually I didn't buy the lawn was in the family for a long time Ok so I decided just to give them a hunt and then we ended up staying this whole you know so wasn't planned that you would be it will in part of another time and eventually they kind of fell in love with farming we enjoyed. A different way of living you know they've got like 60 acres of land these rolling hills bordered by the ocean filled with their crops. Sweet peppers them kins and what a man owns Ottomans I mean quote Yeah so cellulose took me out to the actual farm so this is the hopes these are what we have to have a still and they're in this field I was surrounded by just hundreds and hundreds of these enormous watermelon these are huge like yes they weigh about 20 to 25 pounds and this was actually when I was there because these watermelon in this field for the past 15 years have been under attack. This one this one is yes another one that was punctured and it's fresh Oh man Ok this day they've been here recently yes. It's still fresh and there's this golf ball sized hole poured in to the side. Of maybe 2 inches and the watermelon itself had just been emptied out. It's incredible it's like that. And while Condon it's the same thing in the same thing in the same thing this field is just littered with hollow water this is the worst. In about 3 years as I said they did it specially because you were coming. I want to ask this because I think it's time who or what is doing the. Raccoon. Of course record yes those masked bandits with with those little tiny hand and the adorable sort know not adorable at all I think they're kind of no they're so not you know no no but but but even if you think they're horrible you have to give them that they are clever they were they were sneaking into Sully and Lois's field at night finding the biggest ripest watermelon in the patch boring a tiny hole into it scraping out the juicy innards to just scoop it out and challenging down itself and for cellulose this was a huge problem you can still fit into it on a could have a nigga you able to go to the 3rd of their watermelon crop and just be yes meaning it could go up to 20 percent of the new Yeah sure thousands of dollars so we couldn't stop this roses dimensional so we had to do something. We had to fight so one of they do 15 years ago and lowest declare war meaning one well to start with we put any fans are wrong our feeling keep them away but pretty quick to put a branch and walk on the branch and get into your field anyway they built a sort of bridge and when they would walk over the branches yeah so then they've got to try something new this time they're like you have to be. Blasting music at them will run around. With a weave at one point even stoop to just throwing rocks at the raccoon. Just. Good. But you can stay in the field so next thing they decide to try is Ok let's put some traps out in the field we tried to trap saw them with. These big metal sort of trip wire cage but there was no trap we found a trap in the woods and it was all bent up with a they had run away with the truth the trap Yes the raccoons were actually destroying. It just. So for their final attempt they decided Ok. Guard dogs put guard dogs in the field but the next day when we came it was into was. It was it was a. Direct killed exactly. It was a jewel to do that. So you know what kind I mean what you're dealing with this confirms every feeling I have records they are not just clever they are fierce and. Good and bad in everyone and these were obviously not very nice records in that I were in Lewis and so his position of course. Is that they did well or poison them something well yeah I thought that if anybody would be on board with some sort of erratic Asian campaign it would instantly and look right but when I floated this idea by them if I was you I would want to kill raccoons they just kind of looked at me funny. Killing them it's a little. A little harsh but they're attacking your livelihood Yes I just it's hard I'm trying to understand how you I know it sounds stringent because I myself putting myself in your position I would find it strange too it's just maybe. Fitting you know why he's. Feeling What does that mean well here's the thing the people of Guadalupe they acknowledge that these records are super destructive they know that they are attacking not only watermelon farms but but code farms and chicken farms that they're going in tipping over trash cans in downtown Pete but but get simultaneously. They adore the winning record just made up and so no of course we love the record they put them on their post card we just think it's so cute driving down their main highways you see billboards where people's logos for their advertisements for their for their tire company is a raccoon everywhere there is a statue of a rock at the zoo with bins in new zoos. They're the number one exhibit here they are the 1st thing you see when you walk in we have many been between their own couple of their like monkeys and on the way out of the zoo. When you walk into the gift shop a coffee cup with a raccoon on it a snow globe with a record in it teach a means of mad if you get one of those people out there. People people are raccoon crazy on this island why well it's really complicated it is it has to do with their history of the island it has to do with who came to the island when and who gets to say what happens on the island it has to do with that with power like Who's talking about a raccoon here that's still Yeah all of these problems and ideas are inside the raccoon tail in fact in that it's in its tail the tail of the record and the tail about the record here that. Explain this a little better well the trouble started. In 1911 with this guy Garrett Miller. He was a scientist working at the National Museum in d.c. The museum on this by the way is blending. For the wildlife police spoke to my interpreter Sally stuck in and she told us one day Miller was just hanging out in his office when a boxer it up from quite a loop and he opened it up and found a very much dad or a coon Yeah sort of misshapen skin and they can accompanying skull This is Christopher Helga curator of mammals that the National Museum of Natural History part of the Smithsonian Institution actually has the same job that Miller had back in 1900 anyway this record that Miller had in front of him looked a lot like the North American record but it was small and different in quite subtle ways and so. After some inspection Miller baptized. Existing species scientific name. Procyon minor. The Guadalupe and raccoon putting a name on it and recognizing it as a new species implied a deep history of the presence of raccoons in Waterloo hundreds of thousands if not millions of years and over these millennia these records have evolved into their own distinct species found nowhere else on the planet so is that when you're in the Guadalupe begin when they. I realize they had their own you know one and only Yeah but it took a while to catch on I mean this discovery was was initially only being talked about in these arcane academic scientific journals it's not like this discovery was on the it was on the front page of The Times or anything but then in the 1980 s. You know conservation really came into its own scientists started worrying about about species disappearing from the planet and in particular they started worrying about this record these records you know were being recognized as potentially endangered thought being there only on these islands there probably aren't that many of them like we got to protect these things. And so. Since Guadalupe is an overseas French Department France decided to do just that February 17th 1909 legislation was created to protect and shortly after the passage of this law after the tsunami. Opened up its 1st national park in the recovery became the mascot the symbol of the National Park. And as the mascot of this new national park. Became that symbol protected species it was celebrated just Lawyer people were like Ok nice. And more than just a symbol of the importance of protecting the natural environment of Guadalupe over time the raccoon became in a way a symbol of Guadalupe itself as you know it's really that symbol for people that you can definitely see it as the old people in the us. Aside from raccoons you didn't really have hardly any other mammals that are native to these islands apart from bats and so if the raccoon is the one furry critter running around that everyone can point to and say this is. Special You know this is not the same as find anywhere else that is an exciting thing is a powerful thing. I mean we're not in this time zone. And. Age doesn't help things this is not just stuff you were born here in Guadalupe we yes yes indeed she's an older woman maybe in her seventy's wearing this pink floral dress her house was right on the highway with a field in the back and that she says is where the records would hang out. There was a whole bunch of them just like chilling in the area because all this behind the house was sugarcane they actually came and fed on the sugar cane and. I loved seeing them I mean there was always some time of pleasure in seeing those raccoons out there. And that some point there was one that we really became acquainted with at that point she. Picked up this black and white photo that was there was sitting on her dining room table and inspected it when can I see the photo that you have here. Basically what's on the picture is Sophie and I'm feeding her bread that I didn't to milk Sophie was a pet raccoon that I had back in the late eighty's. And she talked about Sophie as if she were her child maybe I'm a Kuwaiti. You're making the gesture of like cradling a baby. So if he. Can just. So feed Yes. He would run around the lake every time I called her name. Everything Leigh she would just like come running to me Sophie I was really close to him and like when other people came to visit they could see that I had this rare wild animal with me. And one point she got she got really quiet. And grasped the foot of it very tightly. You're holding it's your heart. When he died I cried I cried his name it was a really really painful time for me as. The love it's important sometimes to have something of your own. I almost got the sense that having this reg as its national animal was a way for Guadeloupe to distinguish itself from friends I mean also got a look has always been pushing against France trying to declare some sort of cultural or national independence in fact just a couple years before this this law was passed. Liberation Army this group that was fighting for independence from France blew up a section of Guadalupe airport a studio in the government on t.v. Station even a Chanel fashion perfume store in central Paris explosion tore out windows and doors and left them high fashion. And it felt to me like in some small way the raccoon had become a way for the Guadalupe peons to say to France this is ours not yours and because of that it also became a point of tension between France and Guadalupe you know what do you mean by that well. The morning after I met up with nob I went to this police station. Oh good. To talk to these police officers did you mind saying your name. Antony. Simone just makes me the. As well as a couple others all of them but one were white and French they were stationed here in quite a loop and they they took us up into this sort of War Room which was the 2nd story of this bungalow type building out in the middle of the jungle. In years to the village everybody was sitting around this makeshift boardroom table and pretty quick after the meeting started they booted up this power point to get a power plant with a picture of a raccoon displayed up against a log this image of a raccoon crouched down in this chicken wire cage so what the what is going on well they're planning a raid to liberate this record and in fact they had the location where it was being held mapped out with with entry points designated they even had the license plate number of the man believed to be holding the raccoon and why exactly are they doing this well because as Anthony grow the leader of this whole operation explained to me they get. The law passed in France back in 1990 clearing the raccoon as a protected species it specifically outlawed killing raccoons transporting raccoons and even. Having Riku for pleasure you can't raise a Rick as your own pet. For me sometimes we're taking away a child of the family literally because you didn't want to sample the in friends to the law says they can't be held as pets. And as a police officer in here I'm speaking as a police officer I have to be here between force. Period no questions asked. And so. Once the breathing was over they headed outside. Their pistols to their belts through the rest of their gear in the back of these S.U.V.s . And took off everyone is rolling out we're in 3 vehicles and 20 minutes later. We arrive at the top of this hill down into this lush dense jungle. Just try into the forest. We get halfway down the hill and. Someone here. In the clearing we spot this man he doesn't see us there's a guy in a red shirt with a camouflage had on he's got his hand behind his back the cops tell us it's too dangerous you guys can't go any further So Sal and I ducked behind some trees. At the and then some on an Anthony wearing a wireless microphone. Rushing to the clearing to confront her. But I don't know Anthony started grilling them a bit. Ask him if you know about the law said he did. And even though it was like 30 yards away I could see that the guy just confused it was. Pretty harmless. Good here. Right away please please and he told them where the record was there he is in this chicken wire cage behind this giant tree cute little guy this rough looking raccoon . They pull out a tool box cutters I cleared grabbing the wire cutter like it thought it was playtime or dinnertime they cut open the cage reached into it he's thick leather gloves. And then they grabbed it by the neck and. Threw it into this kind of dog carrier box thing and. The mission is a success so that you did it 20. Get this whole thing sounds a little I don't know how much for this for just releasing a pet Yeah no Agreed but we're going to go for it Ok later that morning we went on the 2nd rate what are we expecting from from this sin. And the seriousness clicked into place for Pete's and he came up with his every to show really a different setting we walked into this courtyard surrounded by maybe 10 houses many of them made of sheet metal and do we know where the raccoon is supposed to be . It's right there under those trees he pointed at this pile of trash thrown in this enormous white cage and there inside was this golden looking record. To. Kenya some of the houses all around so we need to see who is really in charge. But before the officers could do anything to free it was that it was a crowd started to gather good for students and. No noise of. A woman who just arrived at these if he was 3 or 4 people showed up had started poking out of windows or you go to the end and Sally overheard one of them saying someone snitched and said that there was a really cool area he said someone snitched us and I suddenly realised that with all of the officers were very on edge so it's a much more interactive and we're just going to live at it why can't we just take just procedure he says they don't want to stay here too long and we got out of there. So we didn't get to tell me what was going on in that 2nd situation because I am a lot of it was over my head. I mean it's really understanding the context the setting I mean this is not just the police I mean it's white police forces coming into an overwhelmingly black and poor neighborhood that has a lot of you know significance in this context. In fact when I was talking to know about this the night before no no no no no no no no she said that if police officers had ever come to try to take Sophie. I mean they would have had to take means were. If it would have taken my my husband's gun and I would have you know I would have shot. When we come back from break the tail think ends. We'll be right back. This is Timothy forensic calling from Stillwater Minnesota Radio Lab is supported in part by the Alfred p. Sloan Foundation in hand Public Understanding of Science and Technology in the modern world more information about Sloan at w w w s l o o n e dot org. I'm Robert Krulwich This is Radio Lab We're back with reporter Simon Adler telling us the story of the Guadalupe in raccoon which as we just heard for the people of Guadalupe is both a point of pride and a point of tension. In the back rooms are the public areas exactly and understand what happens next we're going up to the 6th floor of the museum we have to go to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History here in the u.s. With Christopher Heller where we are now is what's called the type collection the world's largest library essentially of dead mammals I have to say for such a grand place it's a little visually underwhelming basically just a bunch of locked white cabinet that said the behind the scenes area where you know the real treasures are stored so we take a quick detour so I can explain what he means by that sure Ok so scientists taxonomist their job is to name and differentiate species right now so how did they do that well let's let's talk about sharks because sharks are kind of cool animals right now imagine there's a shark species it's women around it's having a great time and at some point half of the sharks in this shark population decide to leave to go somewhere else I don't know they go to deeper waters or to a different ocean they get cut off from their previous shark family they don't see him for a long time and over thousands or maybe a 1000000 years they actually start of valving on their own as sort of a new a new type of shock they become different enough that they become a new species that's what the scientists come in and try to figure out. How to make that determination well so basically it's a comparison game they compare him to the old sharks do they look the same or their dorsal fins taller or shorter the look at how they how they behave in the water how they move through the world is that different nowadays though even just do genetic work and if they decide it is in a species of shark. At that point they do this sort of wacky thing that I had no idea about once they've decided that this this shark is a new species scientists will go and kill one of the sharks they will stuff it put it in a box and then they will store it in a locked cabinet in a natural history museum somewhere because ever after for hundreds of years that specimen becomes kind of a gold standard the definition of that species. There's a different key for types and others we just every kind of moths or 2 or mollusk or mammal you know every oak tree every kind of zebra somewhere in the world there is a museum cabinet where locked down there is a physical specimen of that organism so it's like illiteracy is like this is the natural museum histories of the world like the library card catalog. Yeah and the room that that held and took me into in the 6th floor of the Smithsonian It was just cabinet after cabinet after cabinet after cabinet filled with these types pessimists including the Guadalupe raccoon type specimen the very specimen Miller inspected back in 1011 so here we go. Down and open this one particular cabinet I'm pulling out a big metal drawer and inside. That this is it right here here it is right in front of you this sort of ready looking taxidermy as maybe not the most pretty say you know the ears are a little bit broken and bitten off some of the stuffing was coming out of the belly but that's probably how it arrived now held in 1st saw this reckon back in 2001 of the 1st things he did was turn it over looked at it in the small maybe like 18 inches long like that just like Miller had reported but then he popped up in this little white box that had the skull in it. And take a look what do you see here he pointed at these fine white lines crisscrossing the dome these are open sutures which show that this is still growing in other words it's not an adult. Which the hell was a big deal because ever since being a kid he was suspicious of the Guadalupe being record but it didn't it didn't add up to me I just had suspicion of you know these Caribbean raccoons didn't make sense he said if you look at islands they usually don't have just one native mammal species walking around this. And so on this trip the fact that this thing was a kid meant that there was nothing special at least about its size and you know by the time I laid my hands on this one and looked at the the skin and seen so many museum collections up you know I knew their skulls and teeth really well and so when I saw this and one of the 1st things I noticed is that there was just nothing that looked any different to me from the common Raccoon the North American raccoon and so decided to do some genetic work he compared the d.n.a. Of these got a loopy and racoons against North American ones did the math we made the comparisons and every clear answer came through not only are these you know not very different they are just simply North American record. Of the same ones that come in and. The exact same rag you know common literally garden variety raccoon that we have in our own backyard now for scientists and conservationists it is a real turnabout you know it goes from being distinct special you know found nowhere else to just the opposite. Invasive species so intelligent started publishing papers on the raccoon in 2002 conservationists were excited because raccoons they can have real impacts they will do things like eat sea turtles birds nests bird the eggs including of some that are potentially endangered they'll eat that if they were they were hurting actual endangered species Yeah and so now that now that they have proof now that they are certain that this raccoon doesn't belong here then they feel finally we're going to be able to go out and start doing something about this protect the real Actually special and get rid of this one sort of fake or but. Putting conservation aside what you've got is is this native to the island national icon animal that has suddenly become an interloper brought there within the last you know 200 years probably just on a boat Well given everything that you've told us about the cloning history how did the Guadalupe Ians react to this well well we went down in 2000 for help and his mentor to quite a loop and we talked to some people associated with the zoo and with the government management of the park and it was just a very brief conversation he made sure that they had heard the news guys that this raccoon that's found only in your country it's not what you thought it was and it doesn't belong here and I remember that the message that came back to us was essentially Thank you very much but. We're going to we're going to hold onto our record. Meaning according to blinding you know there was no major communication campaign held on to make sure that population knew that there was a change in the government never really told it. And when someone did say something . Like Gerard Barry here. He's a native Guadalupe Ian long time conservation and musically. You know a few years back I was interviewed by a reporter and I told him I knew for a fact. That everyone was sane or off with his head so my friends really. You possibly say this you know you should not have said this is bad. And so for over a decade now nothing has changed the laws haven't been amended and because the government kept this so hush hush many people on these islands still don't know the truth. My understanding of the story is for many many years there is this In fact I accidently broke the news tonight recently it was discovered that no in fact. It's the same species that lives in the United States does that change your feelings about Sophie or about the Guadalupe and raccoon in general. They're. Human I mean you. Can find it in the United States but so is it possible that maybe it was brought to the United States the scientists say that it was brought here from the United States. Then I mean I always thought that the recruiting was really endemic to well. Yeah it is kind of sad for me to know that it's not endemic to what I mean. I wish it would have been so to be honest. And then. I had the even less enviable task of informing me that just this past July in France he fixed this as you may see in the film when she says you passed this regulation we are not advised that we cannot act on. Basically a blacklist of intrusive spins with negative impacts concerning the European Union . Thing is particularly in Germany the raccoon is terribly invasive. Of actually being called Nazi raccoons as they spread from Germany throughout the continent and so made the list. And that means that member states like France in the us very likely overseas agencies like Guadalupe will have to start managing or even eradicating. From the folks I've spoken with there's a good possibility that in the next year or the raccoon is going to change from being a protected species to being a species that can be hunted trapped and killed. At that. No no no. There's some of the malady. It kills me some if you mother it kills me that you know people could start hunting Riku like we have to protect them no no no no no. No. It's not a specific species Yeah Ok got it I just don't care and. Owner of the Guadalupe see you don't care I don't care it's just the record I'm glad to look but it's kind of an imposture isn't a kind of trick everyone did he asked responsible of the person saying it was another people make an error he didn't do anything you must respect the animal you know even sell the lowest the watermelon farmers from the beginning of the story said at the end of the day if let's see this say Ok as of this date the raccoons are no longer whatever I don't see myself taking a rifle run into the field and just lying in wait to shoot them no. We have a huge type of wildlife you know no snake nothing so you know. The bigger ones the biggest one so people adopted it as a national I mean one that's it it's one of those if you can't be with the one you love love the one you're with. And then the good one so as a pragmatic person I know it's an invasive species today I know it but I know also I think he's cute and I think I like it so why does a best bet is to find. I don't know. It's kind of interesting that we in America love the bald eagle a kind of wretched bird that steals other people's nests and isn't generally a vulgar animal actually but we never think of it that way because we've given it majesty and we give it you know in its talons there you see both you know peace and war it has been. In America and I think every time a nation chooses to identify with some wild thing it's mostly really about people identify not about the animal. Like dislike there is that you have this fact right there is a fact here that the raccoons didn't show up a 1000000 years ago or whatever it's probably was probably more like 200 years that's most probably a fact yes but then there's the stuff on top of that which is they. Are they natural Are they invasive do they belong here those still feel like facts those judgments and like who gets to make those judgments the scientists. Certainly didn't realize the extent that this was a deep seeded cultural battle in which I. Have inserted yourself in a strongly again Christopher it's just the same information you know different responses and. When I say I think that one of the deep questions of that of this story lives in that which is like you you came to a scientific truth. The question becomes should that scientific truth. Win the day. I mean. As a scientist you know I would say yes you know as a conservation biologist I would say yes it's important to shows us that taxonomy really matters this animal didn't belong and you know really perhaps it should be removed from the island but at the same time. It's really a question for Waterloo you know this is their island these are their animals running around on it and. It can be very challenging for scientists like myself to come to terms with but. That's how the world works. One more thought before we go to you. Before Helga officially sank or dethroned this got a loop in raccoon there's actually another guy with a similar hunch this Parisian Mammalogy is named j.m. . And in one of his papers he wrote that even if it can be proven that the Guadalupe in raccoon is no different from the North American that the best answer might not be it's reclassification or eradication but instead. Its isolation he wrote that it's quote insular distribution prevents gene exchange with the mainland and is likely to warrant different selective pressures that should favor short term genetic differentiation that may lead to a long term speciation process. Meaning if they were able to keep these North American raccoons on Guadalupe isolated long enough. Maybe someday they could be reclassified yet again this time as real. Loopy. What's your response to that that said that but. You know like it but. It's a going to be waiting a long time. That's going to take. If you want to give some. For Super thanks to se I knew who was our translator and got Simon everywhere he needed to go and made sure that it all worked out and panel here in New York who helped us make sense of the whole thing before we left the show we'll have a huge debt thanks also to air of a manual David exam or Albury Lawrence that diesel the mo and Florian Kirshner to Bernie been meal and most especially thanks to Simon Adler who reported and produced the whole story here owner with us is one paragraph we before we go off about what because you know we're arguing about whether the record is a good creature or immoral creature and I was looking for ammunition on the Internet to find out to read. That and I found this is thing I found this thing is for it's in a blog called The Truth about racoons a boy and it's in it contains this paragraph. Which pretty sure is not true. It goes and I quote raccoons are one of the only land mammals who can also walk on the bottom of river beds holding their breath for up to an hour but they eat both live prey and carry and consume up to 20 pounds of raw meat at a time then go without food for a week their skeletal structure is found in no other animal and that combined with their ferocity and complete lack of moral fiber makes them perhaps our most dangerous enemy I rest my case. That was no use to you just. What is. My name. Reading the. Radio. Direct Line. At it are you New York. Are. Any. Area. Would help. You rank. Or back at your. This is k.c.b. X h d one San Luis Obispo k n b x h t once an auto and k s b x Santa Barbara. Public radio for the Central Coast streaming at case of e x dot org Support for k c b x comes from the San Miguel mercantile and Mission Street antiques world within a world featuring bakers Creek heirloom seeds open pollinated natural and non g.m.o. At 1141 a Mission Street in San Miguel. Told the clock on the central coast on a hot Saturday time for freedom jazz dance we're going to play the next 2 hours nonstop music for you jazz and related things to hopefully. Make you feel a little better. If the weather's getting you down. But some of it's going to be kind of hot itself you might want to include this in that description the Spanish Harlem orchestra brand new album featuring Randy Brecker on trumpet is called so most of. Freedom jesting St Matthews here with you welcome. 66. 6.