Avoid talk of religion sex and money tomorrow as we gather with family better add politics to that list as well up next on point divided families in a divided nation and how to navigate Thanksgiving 1st this news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying holiday travel mess across much of the country today in the Rockies a National Weather Service is warning the travel will be very difficult even impossible at times as a series of powerful winter storms bears down on the region N.P.R.'s Kirk Siegler reports heavy snow is in the forecasters Saturday Forecasters say Hurricane force winds are likely off the coast of Oregon and Northern California where heavy rain is hampering travel in Utah and Idaho the National Weather Service is advising travelers to expect snow and ice covered roads that could be impassable in places drivers should have emergency provisions with them up to 10 inches of snow is in the forecast for the Salt Lake City area more than 2 feet of snow has already fallen in much of eastern Colorado including the Denver area at one point the storm left more than a 1000 travelers stranded at Denver International Airport where there have been numerous delays and flight cancellations though the airport says a break in the weather is allowing operations to get back to normal Kirk Siegler n.p.r. News Boise former President Jimmy Carter is out of the hospital in clear to spend Thanksgiving at home in Georgia he's been released from Emory University Hospital in Atlanta where Carter underwent surgery to relieve pressure on his brain due to bleeding from recent falls he is 95 years young and still active Massachusetts is adopting the toughest ban in the country on the sale of flavored tobacco invading related products today Republican Governor Charlie Baker signed a measure intended to reverse the tide of teens and young adults who are getting hooked on nicotine and suffering potentially deadly they being related lung injuries federal health officials say the abortion rate in the United States continued its long term decline through 2016 the latest year in the ongoing survey details on this from N.P.R.'s Richard Harris the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says use of medication to induce abortions. Need to grow significantly and in 2016 it cut in for about one 3rd of procedures women in their twenty's accounted for most abortions in the United States while about 10 percent were among teenagers the teen rate is down sharply since 2007 overall the c.d.c. Tallied more than $600000.00 abortions but that's an undercount because some states including California don't report their data the c.d.c. Identified 2 or possibly 3 maternal deaths as a result of abortion in 2015 agencies Health officials say access to birth control is key to reducing abortion rates Richard Harris n.p.r. News the chemical weapons conventions being updated for the 1st time in more than 20 years to include the nerve agent know the chalk that was a toxin used in the attempted assassination of a former Russian double agent and his daughter early last year in the u.k. Other residents were exposed to the poison and one woman died Britain has accused Russia of being responsible for the attacks and this is n.p.r. News. The news active team of the European Union has been approved after a one month delay due the controversial backgrounds of some of its original candidates Here's Teri Schultz new European Commission president are still of underlie and can finally take over December 1st after getting the e.u. Parliament backing the 1st female head of the e.u. Executive has a nearly gender balance team and is pledging to expand that practice over her 5 year term every member of my college will have agenda balanced cabinet for the very 1st time. But not everything is in place since Bracks it was delayed for 3 months after October 31st the u.k. Is still a member and required to put forward a commissioner like every other e.u. Country that's Teri Schultz reporting those ins of farmers have rolled into Paris on their tractors blocking roads to protest President Emanuel Macross policies we have more from N.P.R.'s Eleanor Beardsley whole film let me talk till hundreds of tractors blocked and farmers bread Hey on Paris's famous avenue French farmers say the government's policies and international trade agreements are hurting their business and lowering their living standards resentment is growing over criticism of Agriculture agro bashing on issues from pesticide use to animal welfare livestock farmers are outraged by recent attacks on their farms by vegan activists Others blame Makkal for rushing to ban the popular weed killer glyphosate by 2021 going beyond current European Union policy France is the largest agricultural producer in the e.u. As well as the biggest beneficiary of e.u. Farm subsidies that's owner Beardsley reporting this is n.p.r. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include c. 3 a i c 3 software enables organizations to use artificial intelligence at enterprise scale solving previously unsolvable business problems learn more and see 3. Support for k. Easy you comes from the Cabrio symphonic chorus presenting music for the feast of Christmas shows December 6th and 7th at 8 pm and December 8th at 4 pm at Holy Cross Church Santa Cruz tickets at feast of Christmas dot com and from Pacific Repertory Theater presenting in Chicago the musical a tale of Fame fortune and all that jazz at Carmel's golden bell theatre through December 22nd tickets and more information at back Rap dot org. From n.p.r. And w.v.u. Our Boston I'm Anthony Brooks and this is on point Thanksgiving is tomorrow the 1st big family get together since impeachment hearings began one of the last before an election year it's a holiday about gratitude togetherness and of course food but the kitchen isn't the only place where things can get messy when politics can dominate the conversation at the table so how do we talk to brothers sisters cousins uncles and aunts who might be from the other side of the political divide should we just avoid the subject altogether this our own point Thanksgiving family politics and keeping our eyes on the pies you can join us what do you do when beliefs that you hold dear offend the people you hold dear should we should you avoid turning Thanksgiving dinner into a debate or is politics just part of the menu give us a call at 180-423-8255 that's 180423 talk you can also join us any time at on point Radio dot org And on Twitter and Facebook and on point Radio with us from cold Chester Vermont is Lizzie Post she's the co-president of the Emily Post Institute which was created by her great great grandmother etiquette expert Emily Post She's the author of several books on etiquette and the co-host of awesome etiquette a podcast from American Public Media Lizzie Post welcome to on point it's great to have you thank you so much for having me here I really appreciate it and also joining us from Washington d.c. Is Dana Milbank He's an op ed columnist at The Washington Post covering national politics Dana welcome to you it's great to have you it's great to be with you though I'm quite nervous being with an etiquette expert. Says don't be my my friends and family always laugh at statements like. It's not the right tone though because that's what I want to I Will Dana since you spoke for us let me talk to you 1st about this so. From n.p.r. P.b.s. Indicates that 63 percent of American adults are following the impeachment inquiry closely will they be able to resist talking about it tomorrow. Well will they or should they are 2 entirely different absolute. So should they yes because it gets us nowhere which I'm sure we will will get into to some extent will they almost certainly the one thing I would say at the outset is because of the divisive nature of politics and because things have become so tribal that it's often divided by religion by race by where you live by the community are and often families are homogenously in this in a sense you're sitting around a table and everybody agrees in this Democratic family and in this Republican family everybody agrees so it may not be a problem for everybody because we happen to be in such a polarized time but for the rest yes very more dangerous than under cook stuffing so. Lizzie I want to ask you about how add a cat around politics has changed I mean the conventional etiquette taught us to avoid conversations a dinner about sex about religion about money and politics is it still to boo boo to bring it up. It's not so much that they are taboo it's more that we really try to think of things in like top tier tiers of kind of approachable topics and in tear one you're really looking at things like weather sports entertainment this is a low hanging fruit that's probably not going to be too likely depending on the sports and the entertainment that you're talking about to drive really deeply held personal opinions or choices in lifestyle and identity and when you start to ramp up. Here's 2 and 3 you know tier 2 we really look at as having politics personal relationships religion you know and money can can either be a tier 2 or a tier 3 but we think of like personal family matters finance and often medical issues in those tear 3 categories where you're really trying to keep them. As conversations that you have with people that you really trust people that really understand you people that you're willing to invite into those topics in your life and politics can really end up I feel like in any of these 3 categories for me the big issue and when we're speaking about this in our business etiquette seminars we say you know politics isn't a taboo topic but it's how you talk about it that's really going to matter are you able to be aware of the other perspectives and lifestyles and personalities at the table are you able to make choices that are going to build the relationships in the conversation around you rather than tear them down or purposefully incite anger and frustration or offense in people and I think that that's where politics gets so sticky it's how are we to using to talk about it I'm really glad you brought up brought that up this idea of how you talk about politics so here's part of a memorable 2015 Saturday Night Live skit on this subject of a family has assembled for Thanksgiving relatives have arrived from out of town and awkward conversations about politics here's a little bit of our Thanksgiving the one. Thing I have you know here today I am full that I only burned the turkey a little bit. Saying full That governor is not does refugees. You know heard. This isn't. True actually saw and I says in the today you can see you today. Cathy that wasn't . True. At the. Trade Center is not a true Miss. They were there but they couldn't say anything so they live sad lives and die talking to. Kerry so Adele to the rescue so in that skit there's a visual component that obviously we're not able to appreciate here on the radio but as everyone starts pantomiming her song they come together. But post an example there of how much not to talk about politics perhaps yet it did not even just perhaps that he would take a stand and say yeah that's not the way you wanted to go you know great to laugh about but I think we really do want to be aware of the people around us and as a as a host you really want to feel empowered to do something about this in the moment and I think that's where a lot of people get very nervous and they're unsure about how much agency they have to redirect a conversation to shut down an offensive conversation to even request that people avoid the topic and we really love that Emily Post to empower hosts to do such things but again it's in how you do it I think if you send a blanket e-mail out before or upon greeting people at the door say and remember note no politics this year or I don't want politics anywhere at my table or anywhere at my things giving that's that's not the how we're looking for so how what is the how how can I do it it depends a little bit on what your preferences you know a. Pound of or. What do they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure I think sometimes that works in the situation and you have to know your family or your friends or get the people that you've invited to your gathering in order to decide whether saying out loud or when people are r.s.v.p. Ing saying yes we are going to come to Thanksgiving this year if if now is the time to say I am so excited to have you I know our family has a lot of different opinions in it I would love to leave politics off you know off the menu for the for the day or for the evening or whether it's going to be better to wait and see if the topic actually gets brought up and in that moment than say to someone you know I'd really love to leave politics away from the table right Uncle George tell me about that this is my ever exampled trip to Greece this year or you know how you know how was Sally's wedding whatever it is that can be a way to redirect that conversation it's just a great tool to have in your back pocket and we really want to feel comfortable doing these things but again it's going to depend on your family and your hosting style whether or not you know announcing it ahead of time or calling it out in the moment is going to be the better action to take so Dana I'd like to ask you about that idea just sort of suggesting that we not talk about this at all how would that work in the mill the Milbank family I mean you have some pretty strong political opinions everyone knows about them because they read The Washington Post you know do you hold back at the table do you think well you know it's interesting in my family it's about my immediate family there's not a whole lot of disagreement but when we get together with the extended family some of whom are from rural Indiana there's quite a bit of difference and I think you behave differently in those situations in the in the extended family situation I never bring up politics because for the reasons we're we're discussing here but often somebody else will bring up politics and the question is why. Do you do so I find it's certainly best not to argue back the reason being it doesn't it doesn't do any good anyway let's look at the example we've just had day after day hour after hour of impeachment hearings and yelling and screaming from either side the before this all started and to the point after it started the polls show we are in exactly the same place virtually nobody changed their mind so if that's not going to change anybody's mind you're arguing with your uncle over the table is not going to change his mind so it just doesn't make sense to do what I do to try to diffuse it and this is true with family or with anybody if you know frequently get people who argue by email or in person I just ask them questions I ask them to explain themselves some more and say you know isn't that interesting and try to find some piece of what they're saying or I say Ok Well I think we can agree on this so it's a sort of try to diffuse it and disarm rather than arguing back which is only going to make them angrier right listeners were talking about political battle lines at the thanks giving table you can join the conversation does your family Thanksgiving gathering need a referee or what advice do you have for finding common ground is it a good idea just a 2nd around rules and say we're not going to talk about this poor maybe having a conversation and making an effort to listen to listen to that other opinion across the table would begin go a long way toward meeting this country back together who knows but give us a call the conversation is going to continue after the break we're at 180-423-8255 I'm Anthony Brooks this is on point. Another Thanksgiving with an outbreak linked to romaine lettuce federal investigators are collecting samples from fields in the Salinas growing region trying to figure out what happened. We need to go on hoarding. That news story later today on All Things Considered on 90.3. Support for Casey you comes from Mount Madonna's school celebrating more than 40 years of performing arts with a campus tour and preview performance of Seussical junior 10 30 am Friday December 13th information at Mt Madonna school dot org And from u.c. Santa Cruz sharing the excitement of learning with community oriented arts lectures and learning opportunities a full lineup of events is at events to see you. Support for on point comes from the listeners of. Home Advisor committed to helping homeowners find the right pros for their home projects homeowners can read reviews book appointments and check cost guides for home projects at Home Advisor dot com or on the mobile app and Geico celebrating after 75 years of providing auto insurance for drivers across America more information on auto insurance available at Geico dot com or 180947. This is on point I'm Anthony Brooks we're talking about politics and Thanksgiving you can join the conversation you establishing ground rules this Thanksgiving about what guests can talk about and what's to boo are you practicing your political talking points for Uncle Jerry and sister Stuart 180-423-8255 that's 180423 talk I'm joined by Lizzie Post co-president of the Emily Post Institute and the co-host of also Medicare a podcast from American Public Media and Dana Milbank an op ed columnist at The Washington Post covering national politics and I want to go to a couple of calls let's go to Marcus who's calling from Milwaukee Wisconsin Mark Marcus thanks so much for the call go ahead. So I don't think that ignoring the white elephant in the room going to be productive it will create some other awkward situation I think what we need to do is avoid attacking each other and actually taken step back and sit back and listen to each other's point and trying to hear where the other person is coming from and by listening maybe then they will take the opportunity where you're coming from and actually start to produce some some creative like productive discussion as former Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Dayan said you don't create peace by only talking to those who agree with you you create peace by talking to those who don't Marcus do you expect politics to come up in your family Thanksgiving gathering tomorrow. Typically it does but pretty close to 5050 between Republicans and Democrats in our clan Ok Well good luck good luck with that in thanks for that comment we appreciate it let's take one more call John is calling from Portland Maine Go ahead John you're on the air thanks for the call Hi folks yes I'm with Marcus and I think that the advice we should be getting is what Ms Post was getting into a little and that's how we talk about politics the reason why I think we should is that our democracy is under a certain amount of stress. And these things need to be talked through and. People together for Thanksgiving that includes folks who don't ordinarily. Hang out together this is a good time for us to try and discuss the major issues of the day John thanks so much for that Lizzie Post what do you hear in those 2 calls. I find them encouraging I mean I think I do too I mean I think I'm agree with I agree with both callers that it seems impossible to sort of avoid talking about it but they're talking about the sort of productive nature of talking about it absolutely and well I don't think it's impossible to avoid it I do think that hosts and family and friend groups really want to ask themselves what kind of a gathering do we want to have you know what do we what do we collectively feel is important and and creates vibrant stimulating conversation what I love about what both Marcus and Dana have talked about today is the idea and I believe John to the idea of being curious going to a place of curiosity about what differing views are you know why do you feel the way that you do what do you see in this particular. You know candidate person. Law that's being that whatever it is or circumstance that we're discussing going to that place of curiosity is really important but I love the johns really hearing the point that the how matters it's one thing to share our views it's another to share our views in ways that show we're never going to change them we're not willing to listen and I think when it comes to etiquette we really try to avoid the latter at the dinner table at least or at these family gatherings because we do want to have a good time with one another and that that exchange can be just so wonderful but it does matter that we take care in. How we choose to listen to each other you may be very willing to be curious about someone else's point of view and listen to them and really respect that but what's really fascinating is when that then doesn't get returned to you in a conversation how are you going to choose to behave receive that person if they're not choosing to meet you at that level of curiosity and respect and consideration when you think about that Dana I mean I can imagine you wanting to listen to an approach but if and if someone fires back at you in a way that might not be conducive to sort of thoughtful and caring conversation what's the response Well it's very tricky and it will depend on how much wine you had with your turkey at that point but you know there is a way to do this because you know the dirty little secret is we are as Americans are terribly divided by partisanship but there were not actually that much divided by policy that is what we want there are actually a broad consensus on policies in America just when things get the or are the label it becomes you know like sports teams in a game and you see this and you know the Republican Party was all about free trade then Donald Trump comes in and now it's about protectionism and of course Democrats managed to you know do a flip you know saying the economy was great under Obama and now we're not thinking it's great under Trump so it that that tends to color everything so to the extent to which you can talk about issues and get away from politics you'll be in a better place what I do when I'm being attacked. For something I've written or something I've said fact I did this with a prominent Republican congressman just within the last couple of weeks I said I'd like to talk to you about how we get out of this mess that were. What do you think the solution is so you're you know giving respect and some power to the person who disagrees with you and maybe that will diffuse the moment and put them in a position of actually saying how they think we can fix this because everybody agrees the situation is not tolerable Yeah I mean it seems like one of the sort of polite ways you could do this is you know let's acknowledge that these are unusual in troubled times and part of the trouble is that the nation is so divided so let's use this occasion maybe to raise a glass and hope we can come together for the common good I mean maybe there's a way to frame it. With a conversation that begins like that let's go to Peter he's calling from West in Massachusetts go ahead Peter thanks for the call. I was born and bred Emily Post. Is my understanding that an occasion like Thanksgiving and is for just giving thanks and we don't vote for family members we are born genetically attached to family members and so in my opinion politics has no place at a Thanksgiving or any other celebrate Torrie event it is for caring loving supporting. And doing whatever you can to assist and the experience of those around you if politics comes up at a family celebration at my table I shut it down I said that's what I just say that's not what we're here for All right Peter will thank so much for that there's an approach that we can all understand and respect I want to bring another guest into the conversation joining us from Garden City South Carolina is Lynn parsley She's a family and marriage counselor based in Winston Salem North Carolina and the author of Staying together for at least 50 years keeping love alive for a lifetime limp Lynn Barkley welcome to on point it's good to have you it is good to be with you so you've been listening along I've got some specific questions for you but I'm sure you've been sort of collecting some thoughts of your own as you listen but what do you think well I was listening to Dana and Lindsey and think of well what am I going to say when I come on. They have had a lot of my points and I hope I have some extra things to add but what I want to ask you about you've written about something called agreeable disagreement how does that work it's along the lines of things that Dana and let's see if said about how to have a conversation that is an exchange of ideas and thoughts and feelings and again on a good note of good will interesting so say more about that so you're still able to put the disagreement. It's sort of on the table as it were but you do it a sense of goodwill Right right I hold the belief of one of the callers that we can't just stay silent in order to get along all the time I think that when you have dearly held beliefs that you want to express that that's part of the American way and it's the way things change. I think that I view is that you start with asking yourself what is my intention as I enter this conversation. Am I looking to change their mind which as Dana said is probably an exercise in futility or am I looking to understand them better and maybe have them be open to hearing my point of view and understanding it well to this idea of agreeable disagreement I want to play a cut of tape which I was very moved by this was from the New York Times podcast The Daily last November you're going to hear test Clark she's an evangelical Christian who opposes President Trump's immigration policy now Tess is in conversation with her father essential a who is very much in favor of the president so you're going to 1st hear the father and then you're going to hear Tess the daughter they obviously disagree but they're engaging in a very sort of human effort to understand each other let's listen well man. Well that certainly an oscillating case and of course who they sent them to thank you personally experience but I mean not every case is. I like that I mean I don't feel like everybody is crossing that border is doing it for what they're claiming they're the ones putting their self in this position come on over there not all them persecuted I mean what he would you like to see him to you're talking about these you know fences and you know cages I mean this is all temporary stuff I'm not sure what the answer is but you got a good time you know to some degree. But it feels like Keith thanks for being with the current administration and the current policy that's what I'm upset about so I want to come to you on that what was sort of extorting about that conversation and it's really worth listening to the whole thing is they obviously disagree about something that's so important but the overall context is Dad I really love you and I really want you to hear my point and and the dad's sort of gives the same kind of energy back you know you're my daughter and I love you and I'm really interested hear what you have to say even though we disagree I think that it's a it is a great example of choosing to be polite and choosing to. I think look at look at the whole of the relationship around the conversation that's happening and you know risk respectfully choosing to both listen and state your point it also does it again I haven't heard the whole conversation but it doesn't sound like they go so far down the rabbit hole that then they're just in circles saying the same things over and over and over again which I think also can get to a frustrating point and starts to just make people feel like there's no and. Just add a little more context in our conversation sorry to interrupt but I want to know it's a really interesting point I mean I just really implore everyone to go listen to it because they don't sort of circle around and become frustrated with what you hear is a real effort to understand each other I don't think they succeeded in sort of convincing each other but they're really making an effort because they love each other and they really want to understand what go ahead I didn't interrupt you know mostly I just really wanted to to appreciate the comments that both you and Dana had when it came to ideas like seeking solutions or raising a glass to the idea that we will be able to come together at some point or there will be some kind of a resolution you know and that to me. He is so so impactful and so important and a lot of people forget that it's an avenue to take when things do get heated and they do get frustrating is Ok so if we're going to disagree about how we ended up here or or any number of things what are some of the solutions what are the things that we can agree on we want good things for each other how do we accomplish that you may not solve it over the dinner table but it could it could lead to some really wonderful discussion let's go to a smile who's calling from Boston smile you're on the air thanks for thanks for calling. Hey I was a go on very well what's on your mind go ahead. Yeah my mind of it's kind of like when you're at the dinner table other things not just politics I mean you could come to the dinner table as a gay person a Muslim a Christian all the things that are affecting this country either way things will be said that will make you feel a certain way and if you if you stand a conversation around how you say this makes me feel this way when the party says this that makes me feel this way if you have the conversation around is a good way of handling some of the difficult conversation thanks for that point as well I really appreciate it Lynn parsley I wanted to come back to you and ask you you know as someone who's a family counsellor what should you do if you feel yourself you know you started a conversation and you have all the good intentions in the world just to have a conversation but suddenly someone crosses a line and you feel yourself getting angry right that's when things begin to go off the tracks any advice I do 1st of all take a deep breath and find yourself that you care about that person that that that you have a relationship that you want to maintain a relationship and to try to think again of what do we hold in common. I call it the postage stamp in the football field that there can always be that little piece that you start from in saying we agree on this our feelings are similar about this and I find it to be very helpful to listen to the other person after I'll ask a question like you know what is your belief that is behind this opinion that you hold what is yours dearly held belief behind that opinion and then really listen and then grant to them I can see your point about this I can see that you have have a real meaningful point here and you can see if face change when you say I give you that. And then it becomes softer and gentler because then they can maybe give us something as we say what we want to say so it's mainly a time when it's a look in your eye it's taken those deep breath and reminding yourself I'm not here to make them believe what I believe I'm here to tell my story and to hear their story and my involvement with families and with church and in community development that it's the stories we tell that really open people's hearts and so if you get the opportunity to say the story behind this but we hold is expressed my feelings my experiences and invite them to do that then I think it keeps everything tap down to a kindness rather than a point counterpoint listeners were talking about how to address politics at the Thanksgiving table in a moment when America seems so divided and in fact when families reflect that division you can join the conversation how are you planning to navigate political discord at tomorrow's dinner. Do you feel capable of containing your anger when. Someone crosses that line is it better just to shut the conversation down and say let's focus on the turkey the wine and forget about politics give us a call 180-423-8255 that's 180423 talk we're going take a short break and we'll be back with more of your calls and our guests I'm Anthony Brooks this is on point. I. I. I I. I. I. I. For some of America's youngest conservatives the state of the country is just as worrisome as the state of their finances if they could go to jail for a week to pay up or stay in there as they would take that deal what matters most to Republicans under age 30 and how well is the g.o.p. Keeping them in the party we had across America to Birmingham next time on one. Day Tonight at $9.00 easy us and online it. Org. Support for k.z. You comes from d.n.a. Tests community dental care providing healthy smiles to the low income community in Santa Cruz County for over 27 years Jan tastes because everyone deserves a healthy smile learn how you can help Atlanta's dad org And from North Star construction a custom home builder for the moderate Bay Also specializing in remodels restoration and historic preservation learn more at North Star of Carmel dot com. How on earth are you supposed to get through this holiday if you have to spend time with friends or relations whose political opinions differ from your own Think about how likely it is if you voted for Trump How likely is it that you're going to sit down at the Thanksgiving dinner table and someone's going to convince you you were wrong chips for a holiday civility and real conversation on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News storage or Thanksgiving with Morning Edition till 9 am here on 90.3 k.z. You. Support for one point comes from the listeners of. Where the program is produced and your n.p.r. Station life reminding consumers that only one in 5 victims of identity theft discovered their theft through a bank or credit card company learn more at Life Lock dot com and Geico offering motorcycle and r.v. Insurance more information available on motorcycle and r.v. Insurance at Geico dot com or 180947. This is on point I'm Anthony Brooks we're talking Thanksgiving and politics within families that might reflect the political divide of these contentious times you can join the conversation as the tone of your family gatherings changed in this political moment or have your loved ones always enjoyed a healthy debate give us a call 180423255 that's 180423 talk you can also follow us on Twitter find us on Facebook at on point radio I'm joined by Lizzie Post co-president of the Emily Post Institute and the co-host of awesome etiquette a podcast from American Public Media Lynn parsley a family and marriage counselor and Dana Milbank an opinion columnist with The Washington Post who covers politics and you our callers you can join this conversation let's go to Susan who's calling from Wakefield Rhode Island Susan thanks for the call you're on the air go ahead I happy Thanksgiving same to you. Yeah my approach to this is sort of a middle ground which is sort of the way I approach most things is my mindset is the President Trump in politics and not necessarily invited to my dinner table but if they show up for pie when people are at a captive audience that would be fine. So in other words when people are milling around and can leave the room without making a statement it's Ok to talk about it. Right I mean I don't typically forbid it at the table but I feel like you know for a holiday dinner when you're there to just sort of celebrate and be together that might be an easier approach when people can sort of opt in or not so that sounds like sound advice thanks for the call let me get one more in here Jay is calling from North Yarmouth Maine Jay go ahead you're on the air thanks for the call. Hello yeah I just wanted to offer up something for consideration people might find it useful I like to went confronted with relatives that believe different things that you believe I like to go back to the basics of getting your information from primary sources versus secondary sources in civics class we learned that whenever possible we try to get information from primary sources so I mean to make it practical information from primary sources is more can be more reliable is certainly more direct as opposed to listening to your favorite spin doctor whether it be radio or t.v. Or editorials or whatever so I try to inject that concept how do you know what you know if you get it from a primary source source or a secondary source All right thanks a lot Dana what do you think about that I mean in terms of I mean Jay is talking about bringing kind of reason and logic to political conversation where reason and logic don't always. Follow I support the logic of that but I think that that's quite dangerous because when you say. If you're simply saying somebody is wrong or is uninformed that their information is wrong and I can see that quickly devolving into I'm going down this rabbit hole of Sean Hannity of versus Rachel Maddow and that's clips not that's not going to get you to the place where you want what I try to do when it when I'm sometimes in my face disagreeing or saying things I know to be false not correcting them but having a bit of compassion for how they feel so I may think they're wrong I may disagree with them on the facts but when I look at them the vast majority of Trump's supporters I know that he is appealing to a real fear that they're losing their place economically they're losing. Their place in America he has unfortunately turned that into I think divisive issues of race and religion and immigration status but if you can say this person who appears in front of me to be so angry is really afraid and I think there's an equivalent thing if you if you look at it on the left as well we're both we're all operating really more out of a place of vulnerability out of fear than out of anger and if you can get to that. I think I think that will cool down the tone a little bit but yeah I have never found that trying to correct somebody on the facts to get them to say I agree with you I want to bring up a really interesting idea here and get you all to respond to it so Timothy Philips He's founder and c.e.o. Of beyond conflict in an international organization that advocates for peace and reconciliation he posted. A piece on our cognise sente website here at w.b. You are in Boston and basically his argument one of his arguments is that we tend to overestimate how unpleasant it is to engage with those with whom we disagree and he cites a recent study from the Harvard Kennedy School that found that partisan voters ended up agreeing with the opposition more than they thought they would and didn't feel as many negative emotions annoyance being resentful nervous anger afraid as they predicted they would so his sort of one of his concluding ideas is if we're going to correct our mistaken beliefs about voters across the country we should start with the voter across the table and we might be surprised by what we learn what do you think of that about idealism I think it's fantastic and I think that I mean and clearly there's a lot of evidence there. Showing that it's true and I think it's really important for us when we are talking at this national level to really do. Do our best to not create more divisiveness so when you're creating a headline when you are writing an article definitely you know put the facts put the poll numbers in there that might show the divides but how are you going to crafted are you going to craft it in a way that shows that there's there's this giant divide and it's awful and we're never going to come together again we're going to crash and burn or is it boy there are a lot of different opinions Here's what we really do care about that is so similar I think that it's all in how you choose to frame it and a lot of people are in a lot of positions of responsibility to frame it well and I would just I know I would love reading more into that frame things that way but also that highlight the truth in the numbers and I think I think that that's really important they don't want to come back to you on this on this theme that Timothy Phelps brought up because what I liked about it is I spent most of my time covering politics and you spent a lot of time writing about it and what I'm always struck by when I'm out at campaign events and talking to people on the left on the right Trump supporters Democrat supporters of Democrats running for president once you get past the sort of big headline about what they're against and sort of start talking to them about what they're for I'm always struck by how people are closer than you would think I'm just wondering that you feel the same way that is absolutely true and that's what I was saying earlier and that people actually agree on the policy on the substance there are broad can census on many of these things and you can see it in polling in focus groups if you ask about things in the generic before saying Trump believes this or Democrats believe this you get you know a pretty pretty wide agreement then a soon as you add in party identification Boom me everybody goes to their corners and immediately goes to that so so I think that's the key is keeping it on substance to the extent that is possible. And I agree it would be ideal if in the media we could appeal more to that substance I have tried to do that I do find that because media is so siloed more and more particularly in the opinion world the only people who are reading you as best I can tell are people who agree with you and you know it's sort of the social media effect of just being able to choose your own echo chamber and sharing with people who agree with you so as much as we try. To reach beyond that I'm not sure it's really even possible anymore listeners were talking about how to navigate tricky conversations around the Thanksgiving dinner table the tricky conversations being about politics in these divided times 1804238255180423 talk if you want to join the conversation let's go to Sid calling from Milwaukee Wisconsin hi said thanks thanks for calling go ahead. Brother so basically. The thing that's happening in my family is we end up having 2 separate things given one to the left or the right I'm on the 100 but it's not it's not even intentional you know just because like we I'm on the one that de facto turns into the right but we reach out we. Not that we would know but said Wade said back up about we lost interest yeah we hear you now you said you have 2 Thanksgivings one yeah go ahead we're did you hear me there yes we can hear you Ok so we are within proximity of each other so we're like 80 miles away from each other we can easily gather the we want to do Thanksgiving together they don't because I think I think the film is that they're like the hardcore left and. I think you want to actually evil so there's doing it in terms of like official mortality whereas we decided we just don't want more of the Grinch here we like being white we don't care you know we want them to come over but they don't want to think that they think we're evil and we're like we're the same way you were 10 years ago they're just you know they just do it a little told said I got it in thanks for the call him parsley any any advice says as a family councilor to see the family yes I would hope that they would eat somewhere somehow and it's very helpful to start or pretty early in the conversation to say what's talk about what on your point of view you're not entirely comfortable with and I'll tell you what on my point of view I'm not entirely comfortable with another word say something about. Gay marriage or women's reproductive rights or something like that and to say here's what I would generally say but you know that still have a little question about where I stand on that there are things I'm just not quite comfortable with again that you're not so dogmatic you know where you're saying oh the other side is pure evil on the word we're the good guys is to go you know there's somewhere that there are holes in our points of view and if we admit that or invite conversation about where the holes are in our points of view or what we can grant each other then it softens. Conversation and again you start with the intention to do who are these people to me you I want them to be for a lifetime and I want to tell you quick story I was in a hospital waiting room on Monday and 2 volunteers started talking about radio talk shows and and so I joined in the conversation and my 1st thought was this man right here talk in is saying things that I don't agree with but I start by going he's got to be a good guy because he is a volunteer and so we started having a conversation back and forth and he would say something and I would say I grant you that and every time I said I grant you that his face softened a little bit more and then he started granting things to me and 20 minutes later it was time for me to leave I got up by circuits and wished him well and it was so it ended on such a good note even though we said really controversial things back and forth really interesting Lynn I wanted to come back I meant to ask you this earlier because my producer told me a fascinating story that you told her before the show in terms of this idea of agreeable disagreement she talked about. An experience you had meeting your sorority sisters recently do I have this right in the subject of guns came up and I want to hear about that because it fascinated me oh I have these wonderful sorority sisters and we were up in a cabin in the mountains for a long weekend together there was about 8 of us and of the 8 of us 5 of those women had guns with them. And that's not where I would go with gun control but we had conversations about it and I felt like we listened to each other and there were comments made that I thought I'm not even going to touch that. To preserve the unity of the group in the harmony of the group but there we were. We're sitting there drinking wine and talking about guns and I had some real strong feelings about some of the things that were said bed just kind of lobbed a soft soft blow over and that brought back their opinions and their reasons for believing and turned out really well but it did it was for humorous to me that out of 8 of us 5 of those women had guns with them these are the times we live in let's go to Cory his core calling from in-field Connecticut Cory Go ahead you're on the air a How's it going on I just wanted to touch base on a couple points that were made that I really that really resonated with me. First thing your guest mentioned about the echo chamber I feel like a lot of the any partisan kind of this is my side this is your side clear defining lines are really starting to lead us into confirmation bias. A lot of the time and I feel like that's really stifling the discussion because a lot of good debates on beliefs and politics they start with you giving up ground somewhere. You know I mean for an example a lot of people that I know mostly lean to the right but they have some other centrist or leftist values that they also believe but nobody wants to start with that they want to start with the main issue the big things that they want to tackle the things that they want to tell someone else no you're wrong this is what's real this is the fact when I feel like nobody wants to star in say well this is one thing that my side the left or the right side doesn't believe but I do and I feel like that's just a great place to start to kind of work your way towards understanding because if you begin a conversation with understanding it turns into a debate not an argument and from Korea years and years the. Only things giving debate I really think that's what that's what helped God Corey I really appreciate the calling but some great ideas on the table Dana I loved what Cory was talking about this echo chamber leading to confirmation bias an essentially shutting down the ability to kind of hear each other yes I agree and this happens all the time and you know I admit you know as a dippin young journalist I am you know occasionally guilty of name calling and all the other things I you know try to deplore but I do think if you can you know I can been earlier colored referred to his relatives as hardcore left us well of course they're not coming to Thanksgiving if you're calling them hardcore left. And if they're really calling him evil Well I can't see why he'd want to have Thanksgiving with them either so it happens on both sides you know you don't don't call them socialists even if you think they are doing. Call them racists and fascists even if you think they are just as it was right writing this week about Franklin Graham who has a great deal of influence and says the people who oppose Donald Trump are demonic right how are you going to have a discussion after after you start with that it's like either saying the other side doesn't like America you've got to get away from that if you're going to have a conversation absolutely Dana Milbank op ed columnist at The Washington Post covering national politics thanks so much for joining us today really and Lizzie Post co-president of the Emily Post Institute Lizzy It was great having you thanks very much thank you so much for having And Lynn parsley marriage and family counselor based in Winston Salem North Carolina Lynne Thank you Happy Thanksgiving to you so you also and to all of you listeners Here's to raising a glass tomorrow and wishing that we could all come together for the common good Have a great Thanksgiving I'm Anthony Brooks this is on point. On point is a production of w. Boston and. Support for on point comes from the listeners of w.b. You are Boston from New clues yellow green and red approach to categorizing food is designed to help people make improve meal choices with the goal of losing weight and keeping it off for good learn more at noon and 0 am dot com and read it and w.b. You are presenting endless thread the podcast of bring stories discovered on Reddit to you each week a wide range of tales told with intelligence and humor and available on Apple podcasts. On the next fresh air Ok Listen I got something wrong with me that's the 1st thing you know Edward Norton talks about his new film Motherless Brooklyn about a private eye with Tourette's syndrome investigating corruption in New York City Planning and we'll talk about how the film relates to Nortons own life he wrote directed and stars and Motherless Brooklyn joining us joining us. 2 pm Wednesday and again at 7 in the evening here on 90.3. Tune in to 90.3. 2 classical for a special presentation of this past summer is 2019 Carmel Bach Festival through Saturday November 30th listen evenings at 7 pm to 90.3. 2 classical to hear each of the major concerts from this summer's Carmel festival listening to. Classical on your digital h.d. Radio or streaming on line an easy you dot org rain tonight a chance tomorrow rain likely this Thanksgiving Eve with lows in the upper thirty's to low forty's at the coast mid thirty's in Carmel Valley tonight upper twenty's in Felton and a chance of rain Thanksgiving day highs are going to be in the mid fifty's at the coast this is $90.00 Pacific Grove moderate Salinas in Santa Cruz and translators 170 k. 901.30. 07.3 Santa Cruz. Major funding for on point is provided by Geico offering car insurance as well as services for homeowners and renters insurance through the Geico Insurance Agency additional information can be found at Geico dot com or 1809 for 7. From n.p.r. And w b u r Boston I'm Anthony Brooks this is on point the promise of social media was to make the world more open and connected the early assumption this would be good for democracy but it might be killing it sites like Facebook Twitter and Upworthy help fuel an instant outrage industry the president tweets and his base wars it's hyper public performance measured in hits and likes that makes fake news go viral often at the expense of wisdom and truth up next on point can social media be tamed for the sake of democracy. First this news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying Thanksgiving travelers facing an unforgiving winter weather during one of the busiest holidays of the year cannot seem to catch a break 3 storm systems are factoring in disruptions it'll be felt until after the holiday we're hearing from many parts of the country starting with Jefferson Public Radio the Pacific Northwest where a system known as a bomb Cyclon produce wind gusts of more than 100 miles per hour and heavy snowfall snarled travel overnight I'm Liam Moriarty and Ashland Oregon roads are starting to clear up and traffic is slowly moving again through the high mountain pass on Interstate 5 near the Oregon California border this coming a day after a winter storm made the roads virtually impassable during an especially busy travel week much of the region endured white out conditions before the storm finally moved on this is bad Myron Rhinelander Wisconsin where a pre-holiday storm has dumped about a foot of snow on the region more than $22000.00 customers are without power in northern Wisconsin the state Department of Transportation is telling people not to use some major highways and the director of the commercial airport himself was driving a snowplow to clear runways for Thanksgiving travelers says w. X. P.r. Has been by or reporting powerful wind gusts could also threw a wrench into some travel plans and celebrations on the East Coast like possibly grounding giant balloons or in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York City and why p.t. Chief Terrance Monaghan says it will be a game day decision that he really hopes goes his way my favorite balloon is back in the parade Snoopy has finally made a return so.