Was crushed by ice and sank in the Weddell see in 915 but Shackleton and his crew escaped Jonathan a most reports fortune has smiled on the international Weddell Sea expedition the sea ice opened at just the right time to allow them to reach Antarctica's biggest iceberg known as a 68 and to study its surroundings for more than 2 weeks but with all task completed the teams icebreaker is now attempting to get to the location where Shackleton's insurance went down in 3000 meters of water if they can get close enough the scientists will deploy a robotic submersibles to search the seabed and if they can find in durance to photograph its condition Black Panther on the top prize at the Screen Actors Guild Awards in Los Angeles the film depicting a futuristic African society picked up here war for outstanding performance by a cost Best Actress went to Glenn Close for the wife Rani Malik was named Best Actor in a leading role for his performance as the late Queen front and Freddie Mercury in Biggie Mian Rhapsody and that's the latest b.b.c. News. From w. N.y.c. In New York this is on the media Brooke Gladstone is off this week I'm Bob Garfield my position and said I was not disrespectful to Mr Phillips and I respect and I'd like to talk to. I mean in hindsight I wish we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing but I can't say that I'm sorry for listening to him and standing there the maggot kid Nicholas Sandmen the not especially remorseful centerpiece of a weeklong national nervous breakdown in a moment some thoughts about where that episode has left us you already know how it began. The stare down between the high school students and the native elder was everywhere newly elected Congresswoman Debbie Holland is among the 1st Native Americans elected to Congress and she reacted on Twitter writing this that her and put his life on the line for our country students display of blatant hate this respect and intolerance is a signal of how common decency as a Cain under this administration was breaking the mainstream media quick reaction force was led by the Associated Press which reported that the kids were jeering at Phillips and further passed along an accusation that moments earlier the boys had been quote heckling a couple of black men nearby the headline for that story in The Chicago Tribune was Catholic high school students in Magna hats mock Native American after d.c. Rally look at some of these headlines The Hollywood Reporter students and Make America Great Again hats not Native Americans after Washington rally c.n.n. Teens and Make America Great Again hats taunted a Native American elder at the Lincoln Memorial Vox white students and Maggie are crashed the Indigenous People's March and harassed protest of the media outrage even got shall we say proactive g q's Nathaniel Friedman tweeted that the Covington kids should be docked and my c.n.n. Colleague accused empower. Tweeted at the schools superintendent What are you going to do about this Superintendent Mike Kline this is absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching and you know it do something also these boys need a better education you are failing them of course people fulminated it was just another reminder of how low we have sunk there was this whole mob of poster children for arrogance intolerance white privilege and oppression and on social media and t.v. Wherever you looked trigger warning that smirk. Then other footage emerged not so close up but far more revealing capturing the preceeding few minutes and with a wider view the kids had been under verbal attack in the violinist imaginable language from a group of Hebrew Israelites identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a black supremacy group that takes a Westboro Baptist Church approach to protesting its version of biblical prophecy Papa Jack down the left oh he's just cracked. With that race is God The Joan look at Easter crash the that's right the budget then said Baby. But just then began. By the brown. Whether they were unnerved or amused the kids responded by doing school Cheers not build a wall school Cheers that's when the video shows native elder Nathan Phillips walking toward the boys not the opposite Oh and the kids were mobbed together because they were waiting for a bus oh and elder Phillips account of what he saw doesn't square with the video and Phillips in a conversation with N.P.R.'s David Greene acknowledged that he thought based on 2 years of Trump ism news that the mag adorned white kids were a threat to the black protesters you saw this group of black is rude he bristle lights is potentially endangered by this this large group of white men based on what you had seen in the news in our country and in recent months and years yes thank you for that clarity because that's that's what it was in my mind in my heart . All of the above is what comes of Twitter style mediation it doesn't leave much room or time for nuance or reflection what it's really handy for is certainty a rule in this glut of certainty and so very very soon on all platforms America was playing the gold dress blue dress identity game as Julie Irwin Zimmerman wrote for Atlantic quote Tell me how you 1st reacted and I can probably tell where you live who you voted for in 2016 and your general take on a list of other issues Meanwhile The Washington Post and other news organizations ran corrections New York Times columnist Kara Swisher deleted a tweet in which she said she wanted to find quote every one of these blank kids and give them a very large piece of my mind and apologetic celebrities copped to rushing to judgment this is will be Goldberg and Joy Behar on The View Why is do we keep making the same mistake because we're desperate to get Trump out of office. The mayor culpa sparked yet another wave of revulsion not just in harem scarem social media but in the supposedly deliberate press where commentators castigated those so indecent as to in the face of new context re-evaluate their 1st reactions now freshly irate hot takes burnt through screens everywhere in Deadspin writer Laura Wigner called out the apologetic by name informing them not only were they wrong in their judgments about what they saw in the additional footage but they were apologists for the evil apparatus that maggot represents quote I don't see how you could watch this and think otherwise unless you're willing to gaslight yourself and others in the service of granting undeserved sympathy to the privileged Vox broad an author an education professor Adam Howard who has written a book about privilege. Affluent education and who evidently can divine intention and motivation from facial expressions the maggot kids smirk he said quote communicates I'm better than you I don't even have enough respect for you to even say anything to communicate but I will communicate everything I need through my body language on such evidence 17th century Salem women were hanged as witches maybe most startling was a Slate piece beneath the headline declaring that the maggot kids quote aren't innocent victims following a rigorous examination of the ambiguous video evidence Ruth Graham concludes that we mustn't quote let the complexities of the scene at the Lincoln Memorial dissuade us from telling the truth about who Trump is and exactly what he stands for. I'm sorry isn't the truth about Trump pretty well documented every single day without pinning it on a bunch of high school kids meanwhile the whole episode absolutely obscured the realities of Trump ism and his stead open to the press up to charges of bias and even vigilantism in the mind of your average reporter in Washington and these kids are from a different country less than that actually they're from a hostile country a place we mustn't do for our own safety and there's some there there it's as if the press in those 1st few crucial hours were not just feeding on Twitter but turning into Twitter which is to say reflexive emotional careless and shallow which as I noted at the outset is a bad place for this episode to leave us because in journalism there is time to gather evidence there is time for reflection there is space for context and nuance hot takes last week left behind a hot mess. Look it's entirely possible that the Covington Catholic high school boys are as loaded some as advertised but no matter what we assume we simply do not know yes society is poisoned with hate and injustice Yes our history reeks of abuse privilege impunity and oppression but journalism must take care of how and where it imposes that narrative rounding up ganging up on conveniently smirking suspects that's a mob thing that's a Twitter thing. That is not. Coming up nag a hats are they really the new white. This is on the media. And media is supported by Progressive Insurance offering its home quote explore designed to provide information about available. Insurance options in one place more information at progressive dot com And by fracture a carbon neutral glass but a printing company committed to reducing carbon emissions by reducing waste materials and planting trees for carbon offsets more info at fracture Me dot com slash media Hi I'm Nina Totenberg Are you someone who talks about how great public radio is but you're still not a donor rather than wait for the next pledge drive you can support the programs you love by donating that unwanted vehicle let's face it it's just taking up space donated today and you could get a tax deduction or you could just give us hundreds of dollars directly we'd like that a lot and thank you. Learn more at h.p. . 50 years ago and oil well off the coast of Santa Barbara blew out causing what was then the largest oil spill in u.s. History. And when I look at the oil on the beach like right the incident led to restrictions on offshore drilling restrictions the trumpet ministration is now trying to roll back its on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. Monday morning beginning at 5 central. This is on the media I'm Bob Garfield the magazine's debacle last weekend demonstrated how vulnerable the press are to myriad social and political forces in the mag Fair says tech writer Charlie Ward Zell we should especially not forget the intervention of right wing operatives or Zell who was between jobs at his alma mater Buzz Feed and his future gig at The New York Times watched from home tracking the various met and narratives as the story blew up Charlie welcome back to the show thank you for having me I want to begin on the 2nd day of the uproar when the media seem to pretty suddenly reverse direction how did that come to pass. This was the result of a whole bunch of videos that emerged showing different angles a sort of had a disapproved or film effect of showing that there was more than the initial video had shown and the publication reason picked this up and started putting this narrative together that there was more than meets the eye to this encounter and you said that as a consequence some respectable journalists fell for bad faith arguments now I read that reason article by Robbie suave a who could be described as a contrarian provocateur but I think he was the only writer I read on the subject all week long who actually fessed up to having no idea what was in those kids' heads that it was a stretch to impute racial hate or malice bad faith I don't think that the reason article is written in bad faith I think there's an element of delighting in the fact of seeing this new narrative that sort of showed the mainstream press is being maybe over reactive but I think that the bad faith narrative was surfaced sort of at the same time by a lot of right wing provocateurs and members of what I call the pro term media and I believe that these individuals saw an example of perhaps the press over reacting and used it to launch almost an equal and opposite campaign to bully and harass journalists into stating that they had made a huge mistake and just sort of illustrate the fact that the mainstream media has no credibility it was the fox was the bright barge the gateway pundits the mike sort of edges who went off on the whole enemy of the people fake news thing and you believe this goaded people into rethinking their positions or was it just the fact of the new video in the new angles. I think that there was an overcorrection from a lot of members of the media and these sort of apologies for maybe you know getting the context wrong initially by mainstream journalists is then manipulated into the mainstream media apologizes for victimizing these young children who didn't deserve anything for ruining their lives that was sort of the narrative that was being put forward all across the far right corners of the Internet the online provocateurs in the message boards in the fever swamps and it kind of you know trickles down to the bigger mass communication platforms to Fox News to Breitbart as journalists in the mainstream media we have to be very careful about the way that we portray and even correct ourselves and so there wasn't a lot of nuance in the way people corrected you know they said I was I was wrong I mischaracterized the situation completely and I didn't see a lot of you know we still need to be talking about these issues of white privilege and bigotry and you know polarization I didn't really see that and said I heard I made a mistake I wish I could take the whole thing back and I think it's important to have the nuance but not completely capitulate what you're just saying perplexed me that well never mind the details you know the facts may be a little Brookie But the larger story is undeniable so why be distracted by what the kids did or did not do can't we just focus on the racism that so infects our society is that the right take. Well I certainly think it's what complicates all of this right there are a lot of people who said we should take a lot more time before we share something that outrages us we need to step back take a breather I agree with that to some point but these other angles of the video didn't emerge until in some cases a day later if someone sees something that is a perceived injustice and there's video evidence of it as journalists we have a real balance to strike I think because we shouldn't wait for 24 hours and ignore an important story it's all about walking that line and I guess at some point it ceases to be about even the truth behind the events it becomes just the latest battle in the culture wars which raises the question of really how important was it in my filter bubble it was all consuming you know my Twitter blew up as I'm sure did yours but is this story itself worthy of the attention that in our circles was paid to it. That feeling almost an unanswerable question in the sense that these things all become important because a lot of people decide they're important in the moment in the aftermath to this we're seeing a lot of people talk about how journalists use Twitter and the double focus that we all have being inside there I think one of the fallouts of that is we all log on every day and especially in the Trump era we're sort of creating a narrative together all living history and writing it as we go and I think one side effect of all that is we tend to see moments even if they're somewhat small as indicative of the bigger story as a big chapter in this media story and I think sometimes we do blow it up out of proportion and then that becomes a story in itself and it just sort of feeds itself Now I mentioned in the introduction that you are at the moment between gigs you recently left Buzz Feed then you're joining the New York Times op ed page so as a consequence you didn't actually have to report on this thing. How would you have . And what do you have screwed up I was someone who initially I didn't add any commentary to it but on Saturday morning when that video 1st showed up I felt a pang of outrage like so many people and I hit the retreat button had I been an outlet I would have felt a lot of pressure to weigh in I'm thankful that I didn't have to weigh in on this particularly the only ways that I have talked about this are in a twitter thread which I thought about for a long time and actually wrote the thread out over a series of days which is kind of unusual and then things like this talking in an audio medium because I think that that actually gives you the ability to have nuance you can hear in my voice that I'm struggling with some of these questions that you know there's no definitive voice of God projection in that that's really helpful in contentious and murky and treacherous situations like this. Yes So would you have failed if an editor of any kind of put a gun to my head and said we need something in the next 2 hours this event is you know blowing up there's an incredibly high chance that I would have written something that I would have regretted. Carli I really appreciate it thank you thank you Charlie Ward cell x. Of Buzz Feed is soon to be a writer at large for The New York Times opinion page. It was an episode that began as a thumbnail and became the main smirking kid in maggot had nose to nose with drummer c.n.n. Contributor Angela Rye think about this symbol of that Red Hat this make America great again hat is just as maddening and frustrating and triggering for me to look at as a k.k.k. Hood white hood really that bad to need Bell is a hate crimes scholar and a professor at Indiana University's Maori School of Law She says hold on there are particular signs that are universal the Klan is a sign that's universal but there are other powerful symbols for which the meaning is in the eyes of the behold or individuals who wear maggot hats see them as supporting the idea that America should be made great again it's not necessarily linked with this idea of white supremacy others see the bag of hats as the racial hatred that was invoked at particular times by members of the Republican Party in that way the mag I hat is a very complicated sign it's not the straightforward sign that you get with something like a clan another way of saying that might be rejected best Right exactly some people see 2 faces. This sounds people see as ace when I see them I have a visceral you know sort of flinch it's a big red hat red flag for me it puts me on my guard being prepared to expect the worst just the fault line me. No there's certainly then rhetoric attached to the hats that suggest violence the rhetoric during the campaign that involve pummeling protesters suggests that not all ideas are welcome and yet it's also not a smoking gun it is also not a smoking gun and yet the Internet blew up with outrage over what was perceived as the smoking gun of racism of privilege of white oppression so was that unfair. Everyone's entitled to a view informed by their perspective absolutely entitled So I don't think fair vs unfair is the right way to see this I also think that we all live in the same world and it's important for us to be honest with each other about the impressions that we're creating when we engage with one another so individuals who put on the hats they know how others see them they have a sense of this these are polarized times where we talk about things they may decide to wear them anyway and that's of course their right but this is not surprising that one might see the wearing of this hat as an invocation of racism let me ask you this if those kids had been wearing Kentucky Wildcat that you think would be even having this conversation I did not think that we would be having these conversations at all there were hundreds or thousands or I don't know what number of people who had seen everything they needed to see in the 1st frame of the Lincoln Memorial encounter is there enough evidence in that single frame for anyone no matter what their worldview to draw a conclusion you're not going to be able to get a witness on this one or good tape on this one because I haven't. Seen the video at the only American I think as. I study hate crimes so I have more interest in it because I do it for work than most people and I watched it it's been across my Facebook feed 50000 no. I know what the 1st frame however is like because that's what you know it's the cover and all the sure it's the thumbnail right so if I were to assert because I and I believe it that 1st frame close to the case for a lot of people right I just want you to characterize that reaction to that kid the hat the smirk the whole deal was that enough evidence to be drawing conclusions as a scholar that's my perspective that one picture does not allow you to draw conclusions attuning thank you very much thank you so much for having me to name Belle is a hate crime scholar and professor at Indiana University's Mauer School of Law Her latest book is hate my neighbor move in violence and the persistence of racial segregation in American housing. The angriest commentators on the maggot had episode insisted that the story the real story that will not go away is about race and chronic disrespect conscious or otherwise the problem is surely not confined to American politics when January 15th in a Nairobi hotel office complex al Shabaab militants shot and killed nearly 2 dozen people later in the day leading the New York Times coverage of the incident was a graphic Associated Press photo of dead bodies slumped over at cafe tables it didn't stay there for long after readers told the Times that the prominent display of that image was inappropriate editors placed it elsewhere in the article among those critics was Vox visuals editor kindness m r e a who said that the Times insensitivity in publishing that photo touched several nerves the initial nerve was how could you publish an image of dead bodies during an ongoing attack before families could be notified the nerve was about privacy was about dignity especially to the dead and what we see that western media should offer that the Times came back with the sort of boilerplate explanation we make decisions on a case by case basis etc etc But you weren't buying it you tweeted that the decision to run that image quote stands alongside decades of visual coverage exploiting the pain and suffering of black and brown folks. The Times said and I quote We want to be respectful to the victims and to the affected those affected by the attack and then there's a but but we also believe it's important to give our readers a clear picture of the horror of an attack like this I think the conversation that we should be having is much broader more introspective look at how media has viewed and documented and published the issues in lives around people from other countries mostly developing countries as opposed to how we have published images in viewed people from developed countries Kenyans didn't wake up and one day see this image and decide we need to push back and say take this image down because we feel like it's disrespectful this day and alongside decades of coverage of their own community of different African countries so for example I've been a photojournalist for about 20 years every time I go to photojournalism conferences I'm guaranteed to see carnage of black and brown bodies and not the same amount of carnage of let's say white bodies why because photojournalism is defined by images of destruction death and violence towards the most vulnerable and the poorest people around the world. What you're describing is not so much discrimination as just the incidence of raw violence that might be captured in photojournalism I think the American media is saying listen in order to shock the audience into caring about someone that far away we need to show the most extreme other the lies they won't care I hope that we would start thinking about why what does that say about us as a society that in order for us to even begin to care about what's happening to a child or a community or a city across the world that we have to be jarred by the most tragic horrible terrible image in order to care I'm thinking of the image that the New York Times recently published of the young girl in Yemen that image went around the world to show the horrors of famine that that country has experienced due to the conflict that image is pushing up against the extremes of humanity how far can we take that if we are sensitized as an audience to expect that shock then we have to continue to shock their limited resources to devote unlimited Western audience interest if it takes a shocking image to tell the story under these circumstances is that not some justification I understand that news is news in the way we define news might not change overnight but I think it's important to have the conversation of how are we representing the news that coming out of other countries and are we telling a story that is not only informative to the American audience but. Responsible to the local audience and the local lads that are going through the news story these images whether it's terror victims in a Nairobi cafe or a dead Syrian child refugee on the Turkish beach it cuts through it dramatizes stakes it does trigger action I actually have some sympathy for that argument but I notice we haven't seen many images of dead bodies in domestic vast routings For example no pulse pictures no Sandy Hook pictures no pictures of people that have died from opioid use disorder I think if you look at the coverage historically you will see a double standard that goes a little deeper than simply breaking news and showing images of dead bodies it is about who gets the full narrative of humanity in overall coverage the way that we approach international news often is that we parachute into countries and we cover the most desperate situations our country and our people have a much wider spectrum of humanity and narrative the Times says it's going to review its protocols are there are one or more guidelines that you would suggest to them a checklist to go through before making a call like this journalist and particularly for the journalist to have to be in the field and witness these really difficult situations have a tendency to look at their careers as sacrifice and they do sacrifice but they also see themselves as the good guys and so when people are pointing fingers back at them saying how dare you make this image or how can you publish this image the media reaction is this is my job I'm the good guy. I'm simply the conduit of this information the harder thing is to actually consider the fact that we could be doing some cumulative harm along the way it is harder to interrogate that and then to create different editorial standards knowing and understanding that there is a chance that if we were telling the news in the way that we have continued to tell the news that we could be creating harm to the people in the stories that's a opportunity for a newsroom to reflect for an industry to reflect on the visual language that we've created and the way that we frame stories and to start working on countering some of the narratives that have created racial stereotypes that have further marginalized communities that have shown communities repeatedly of being impoverished destitute desperate helpless that is the hard work that needs to be done there's a word for that I think the goal of soul searching soul searching humility and listening listening is actually one of the core tenets of our profession we go in we listen we learn we feel and we report now the people in our stories are asking us to do that as it relates to them and the way that we've been doing it for history we owe them that. Kind us thank you very much for joining us. Is a visuals editor at. Times. Coming up immersed in another. By the stupid things we. Learn progressive. Progressive progressive. Automatically. As well as on a responders when you. Come. 50 years ago and oil well off the coast of Santa Barbara blew out causing what was then the largest oil spill in u.s. History I smelled it long before I saw and when I looked at the oil on the beach. The incident led to restrictions on offshore drilling restrictions the trumpet ministration is now trying to roll back it's on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. Monday morning beginning at 5 central. Valentine's Day is coming why Matt make this year the year you remember a parent grandparent cherished relative or dear friend with a special h.p. P.r. Radio Valentine for $20.00 your personal message. To 14. To schedule your radio Valentine 636-7088. This is on the media. The National Mall is a place where encounters happen groups of people many with agendas. In the most public square this is where the Native American. He was coming from an indigenous peoples March. Prayer for promise of a better tomorrow you know that's the message we the kids were in d.c. To protest what they see as a national shame unaware perhaps that Nathan Phillips was too ashamed being the legacy of genocide to this day depriving Native Americans of adequate clean water accessible health care voting rights protection for Indigenous lands and more which is why Washington Post political columnist. Tweeted the idea that quote Covington Catholic high school should organize a spring break project doing service on a Native American reservation for a meaningful encounter not a glancing one. Proposal was roundly criticized as putting the onus on Native Americans to do the work of educating the ignorant mainstream but presented with deep hatred and racism in their own country some indigenous people in Canada very different conclusion. The 6 travelers have been invited to experience indigenous Canada for the next 4 weeks. They know nothing about the journey that lies ahead 1st contact from a.p. T.n. Aboriginal peoples television network is a Canadian documentary series based on an Australian series of the same name Vanessa Lowe and is executive producer of the Canadian version of the show there had been a study published that site at that 6 out of 10 Australians had never had contact with indigenous people so the producers looked at that maybe if there was more contact there would be less tension between the community it was a. Success and so 4 years later 6 white Canadians Ross Avonlea Don Actually Jamie Sue in Dallas were assembled for a full immersion it venture they came with suitcases and a full compliment of ugly Indian stereotypes I think in alcoholism. Drug abuse the whole bunch partying in Bob Have they didn't always get money and handouts How are they for worse off when they're given so much we are being made to pay for something we didn't do where's my money going if we're $28.00 days they move through different communities from assimilated middle class families to rural in a way to trappers up in a vote to urban areas rife with the pathologies of blight notably the visitors learn about Canada's horrifying 120 year history of residential schools in which Indigenous children were taken from their communities and sometimes actually kidnapped to be transported to boarding schools in order to deal Indian them the schools were finally shut down about 20 years ago but they have left generations of trauma Rick lightning a residential schools survivor now specializing in 1st Nations awareness school the visitors My brother was a residential school and my system our residential school they were in a dire alcoholic Whatever happened to them in there but their fact and their children was on the way mobile My father went to the investor school in Red Deer he told me a story they were going out in the field and there was a big hole there and there bigger boys are bringing in a wheelbarrow and they dumped it and there was always a lot he had fell in there and there when I was there little brother David laid me some of the shows white stars take this information hard because among the things they came in not knowing was the nature of the education they had signed up for we originally thought. But Canadians with strong opinions a sense of adventure and the desire to know more about their own country we asked them a wide range of questions about different politically charged issues like hunting and environmentalism and to Janessa shoes and then as they got further along through the interview process with our casting team and started to see producers we started to tell them the show will be focused on and to just kind of then indigenous issues and at that point I mean I imagine in the states with these kinds of race relations that similar people who feel these things are generally not shy in fact in Canada people might be a little bit more shy because we've had see ourselves like really really polite and this racism that we experience every day as sort of one of our best kept secrets between indigenous people and non Indigenous people but people are surprisingly unafraid to say these things. The native Canadians that your adventurers met along the way were as a group just so charming so much thoughtful so calm so why and the problem with faming us they've left us with no religion no belief system. And so that's something that's important understand that we have a way of prayer churches didn't bring Dr here we had prayer such great exemplars of both the traumas and the triumphs of 1st Nations people was that by design was a tough call it was not by design it's all I can say we picked people who we knew could speak to the community a lot of the time these people are activists like Michael Chapdelaine in the 1st episode or teachers and elders like Rick lightning and were these are people that are in our communities the stereotypes are so deeply embedded in the fabric of Canada that people just choose not to see that there is a whole other side to being a fitness than what they're seeing on the news and what they're seeing sometimes in their cities while you're 6 white folks went from significant assimilation on to none of that where they saw a much more traditional lifestyle that would be an example of local to that gym scene you know to the well whale you know. And they also visited a drop in center for homeless people they encountered people with drinking problems ex felons my mom wasn't. Isn't really around in my life when I was you yeah so I just was angry. Plug the hole my mom situationally when I was a kid and 5 it took me a 2 hour drug overdose and like a minor My crime and then I I tried to escape reality and not a whitewash picture of indigenous life you could have just created a Potemkin village but you didn't whine because with issues with crime and addiction Those are all things that we understand come out of colonisation and we wanted people to really be able to drill down a to see that these people are just people be to see that they might have something in common with these people in the case of Jamie sue that really had a profound effect on her because of her own struggles with addiction meeting these folks with effects and problems and stuff and really just peeling away the layers that we're all human the best way to defeat racism is through education and so many people choose not to be educated because it's just easier to read the headlines and move on and have your strong opinions and think you're right so this was our one opportunity to educate and make people have a little bit of empathy for their intention as community but there was some backlash from the 1st Nations communities I think that they felt like why is it our responsibility to make the non-native population of Canada understand that we're just people we're sick of having to do this why do we have to keep doing this I will say that in the case of Michael champagne he was initially asked to be on the show and said there's no way in hell I'm doing this and he said like why would they even think that I would want to be a part of this this is crazy and then he sat back and really thought about it and was like I have a responsibility to my community to help educate and help build this bridge and he did it and now I see Michael all the time we live in the same city he's says it was a completely valuable experience and he's so glad that he let his guard down and put himself in that situation at the end of the transformations. Are uneven at one extreme you have one of the women Jamie sue and a young guy named Dallas who actually see themselves now as advocates and allies of the Indigenous community I want to be part of the solution and I don't want to be part of the problem and you can also classify the problem and violence the fact that there's 6 of us sitting here talking better right now is the really good that we were in the other end there's these 2 guys Ross and Don who from the beginning have been almost caricatures of stubborn old white guys who believe what they believe in they just won't be budged I'm still skeptical about the whole school thing because it was all they stole our kids they really are family and I took us all away that was the focus of that not at all and that is it was a violent taking of all until you know for the family but they took their culture they took their And we can take someone's culture you can teach him a new culture and for the purposes of reality show drama were you assuming or even hoping that they stay in character to the bitter end at no point did we approach this series as though it was a reality show I know that it and errantly falls within the genre but we were treating it as a documentary series where we wanted to document their true experiences and we were not manufacturing them the only thing that we were aware of was everybody has to undergo psychological testing obviously we can't send people for 28 days to remote areas and risk someone being not well as a result of the psychological testing we knew that some people would have more of a propensity for change than others but of course none of that is a given anything could have happened and I will say Ross who really seemed not to change and even though that you know is I think true of who he is after he met some of that and mates from his area he went back that Christmas and took them gifts as a way to show them support and continue to incur. Urge them on their journey toward making their life better so while he maybe didn't change in his opinions that he spouts to people he certainly felt a connection the show would start on the b.t.n. Network explicitly for Indigenous Peoples it now has a lot of mainstream distribution What's the reaction been Well we certainly always struggle with getting eyeballs on what we're creating out of the indigenous community and there's a mentality of that for that and not for us with 1st contact we were actually quite hopeful that it would reach the mainstream and most of our feedback is from non-Indigenous people now we have been bombarded in a good way for requests for educational packages so we're working on creating a curriculum that will accompany the educational videos that are being distributed by our distributor I mean I just had a call this week from women from a religious organization in Ontario who were organizing screenings for their communities and that's really the response that stays the responses of the militancy or the this is all lies or I'm sick of hearing about residential schools those comments certainly came and then they quickly fell away those people haven't stuck around and that's all that we care about what we care about is that there's going to be a long tail of this hitching that can be taken forward for hopefully generations while the Knesset think you very much thank you and that's a low one is an executive producer of the Canadian version of 1st compact. For Canadians 1st contact is set against a backdrop of pain and more recently reconciliation Here's former Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper in a special joint session of the House of Commons in the Senate in 2008 speaker I stand before you today to offer an apology to former students of Indian Residential Schools the treatment of children in Indian Residential Schools in the. So you know this Harper's apology for this dark century of Canadian history was followed by the founding of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which ultimately released its conclusions in 2015 for more than 6 years the commission travelled the country hearing from survivors nearly 38000 say they experienced physical or sexual abuse. And make a commitment. To make their. Reports Set Forth $94.00 recommendations including the right to mass media a p t n which was founded in 1909 became a fundamental piece of the reconciliation process John the Rosies c.e.o. Well our mandate is basically to share our stories amongst ourselves because we are not one people in and you have 1st nations you have in you with you have me 2 peoples so we better know each other but also share it with all Canadians Canadian experience has been to create a false image just stereotype of native people in Canada I remember my grade school book showed a semi naked savages dirty and camp full of lies so all Canadians have this image of who we are the stereotype but the reality of it is across the country our communities and our peoples are involved in every facet of life we have engineers we have politicians we have ministers in the cabinet we have people across everywhere in industry that are making a huge contribution huge difference in this country so for us to be still perceived as either the noble savage or the drunken Savage is something that needs to be addressed. On the other hand your channel isn't just a propaganda channel highlighting the nobility part of the stereotype part of Truth and Reconciliation is truth if you do not turn your cameras away from chronic problems and underclass. Transgenerational trauma from dysfunctional families from dysfunctional lives and there's backlash attached to that from indigenous communities there are people who believe that you are yourselves portraying a side of indigenous life that they would prefer not to advertise to the world or self-defeating how big a problem is that for you. I say it would be a bigger problem when we started turning the lens on ourselves about 10 years ago the backlash then was quite strong but we're seeing a change in our communities we're seeing a change in the leadership there is a younger leadership but there's also leadership that wants to be more accountable that want to be more transparent slowly moving into place so we're having less of that backlash than we did when we 1st started what we're seeing is that the actual community members will tell us thank you for telling that story because we didn't there for example if you can had a series called black stone that ran for 5 years it created a fictional 1st Nation plot started off by portraying everything that was bad in the community about the leadership about the politics about everything else last season on black stuff on rage that your name was founded on this one thing. And now he's willing new season of black stone and initially we were severely criticized for portraying ourselves in a bad light but the goal was over the course of the series to show how the community could start taking my. Matters into their home towns people could start making their voices heard they could start pushing for change we started getting a lot of support for it to the point that when we ended the season we got criticized for stopping it so it did for many people create the aspirational viewpoint that things can be better but we have to be part of the solution we can't sit there and expect things to happen for us we've done that for 150 years it doesn't work we've got to take matters into our own hands and make our lives better and we believe that it is part of that transition and helps people sort of focus on the broader picture and not just today's reality. Thank you very much my pleasure John the rose is chief executive officer of a.p. . That's it for this week's show on the media is produced by a lot of guest of the Burgess Michael Owen sure like it better. Than us except we had more help Ellen and Alice made it and our show was edited this week by executive producer Tucker Rogers our technical director is Jennifer Munson our engineer this week was Sam bear on the media is a production of w i n y c studios Bob Garfield. Is supported by the Ford Foundation the John s. And James l. Knight Foundation and the listeners the w n y c radio. 50 years ago and oil well off the coast of Santa Barbara blew out causing what was then the largest oil spill in u.s. History I smelled it long before I saw and when I looked at the oil on the beach like right the incident led to restrictions on offshore drilling restrictions the trumpet ministration is now trying to roll back it's on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. Monday morning beginning at 5 central. This is 91.5. And 89.3. Service of High Plains Public Radio available everywhere at h.p. P.r. Dot org You're listening to High Plains Public Radio on line right now is made possible in part by the financial support of the community sponsors you hear mentioned on the air please find an occasion to thank them for their support. In London 5 am in Washington 1 pm in Nairobi this is. At the b.b.c. . Efforts to relieve. Foundering a special report from the port city of this is. This. I want. A prominent human rights lawyer in China who defended political. Victims of. A half years the challenges that countries face when tackling obesity hunger on climate change. And taking these kinds of. Winds the top film prize at the Screen Actors Guild Awards 1st the news. Hello this is David Alston with the b.b.c. News the United Nations says the humanitarian situation in Yemen is now deeply precarious and any further destabilization could provoke a famine the warning from the UN's World Food Program comes as pressure mounts on a month old cease fire in the port city of data which is a vital gateway for aid supplies to Yemen in the last few days a week storage facility and a camp for displaced people have come under fire the un humanitarian coordinator Lisa Grundy told the b.b.c. That the food situation across the country remain desperate there are 20 people out of country who don't know if they're going to take a chill 138000 people are as we speak starving we can't describe this crisis more starkly and as such why should she let a chariot across a country artist to state that everybody do everything possible to end this conflict the time has come of course in China.