Facia environment the government says the new currency will take a few years to stabilize and pleaded for patience as it grapples with the worst economic crisis and 10 years there have been violent clashes in Hong Kong between police and students at a university campus protesters are active barricades at the Chinese University and through petrol bombs at the police officers fired tear gas and rubber bullets as the unrest continued after nightfall You're listening to the world news from the b.b.c. The capital of the u.s. State of Alabama Montgomery which became the center of the civil rights movement decades ago has inaugurated its 1st African-American mayor Stephen Reed to Montgomery County judge was elected last month at this hour many he spoke of the historical significance of the moment I stand here in a position that many of those who were sold on the banks of the Alabama River just a few feet from here could always have a magic. This is the culmination of those distant drains let us more in this day to remember us of who we are and how far we have Carl we have a duty to ourselves in this society. This is the meaning of living our Kareen officers from Nigeria's state security services fired shots to disperse the crowds of protesters calling for the release of the detained activist Army Elicia wearing he was arrested in August during on to government protest sound is facing charges of treason fraud and insulting the president last month he was granted bail but the security service has refused to release him. The Health Ministry in Tanzania has announced that for the 1st time people will be allowed to find out their HIV status at home the government had previously insisted on all the HIV tests being conducted at specific health centers Tanzania as Deputy Minister for Health said the change was being made to encourage more men to find out their HIV status. A French prosecutor has revealed that nearly 900 kilograms of cocaine has washed up in the country's west coast in the past few weeks the. Pockets of the drug have begun so sure in mid October with the numbers increasing markedly over the past week the bags have been seen from the northwest to be a Ritz more than 500 kilometers to the songs. With the. Welcome. And this is your call when today's guest human rights attorney Nora era cat was a student activist at u.c. Berkeley in 2001 she believed that activism was probably not going to result and justice for Palestinians it just wasn't enough so she decided to go to law school she believed that the law was on her side all she needed to do was make the right argument and Palestine would be free so she went on to use the law to advance the struggle for Palestinian freedom and at every turn she found obstacles politics she found herself returning to the same question over and over again what is the relationship between enter national law and politics and what does that tell us about Palestinian freedom that question drove her to go back to school it is also the culmination of her 1st book Justice for Some law and the question of Palestine nor Erekat as a human rights attorney an assistant professor at Rutgers University in New Brunswick she is co-founding editor of jet Aliya an online magazine covering the Middle East has served as legal counsel to the u.s. House of Representatives and as a legal advocate for Palestinian refugee rights at the United Nations she is a frequent commentator on many t.v. Shows and her writings have been widely published in the national media and academic journals. In 2016 Nora was awarded activist of the year by the Palestinian American Women's Association and if you are in the area nor will be speaking tonight at Berkeley City College at 7 o'clock it's 2050 Center Street in Berkeley It's a ticket event and you can find information at your call radio dot org And Nora Eric joins us in Studio 3 a welcome to the show Hi Rose thank you for having me well it's great to have you I was trying to decide whether to talk about how you got into all of this but then we heard what's going on right now as we speak I'll just read you a b.b.c. Headline Israel Gaza violence spirals after the killing of a top Palestinian militants so can you give us some context here what's what's going on so let's just pay attention to the headline right we immediately are told that somehow there's instability in the region and Israel has instigated it but that the use of force is against not a Palestinian not somebody sleeping with his wife in the middle of the night not outside of the framework of a hostility you know ongoing hostilities but yet not withstanding that they tell us that it's a top Islamic militant and so the audience is immediately primed to think Ok whatever Israel has done is therefore right righteous it's just and so what he races immediately the rest of the context by playing on our own you know Islam a phobic assumptions on our own assumptions about Israel and the rest of the Middle East in the u.s. His relationship the u.s. Has imperialist relationship to the rest of the Middle East so we immediately start by being primed and ready to justify and accept tremendous amount of Palestinian death and that could not be more the case that already 7 Palestinians have been killed 30 injured and yet most of the media that we're seeing is recounting how Israelis are taking you know shelter in bunkers because of indiscriminate you know rockets from Gaza and. And the right way that they talk about it is that terrorists Gaza so that 2000000 Palestinians who are be see. In this in the Gaza Strip since 2006 with a naval blockade a land sea they have been put on a 2000 calorie a day diet in order to just sustain them they are not allowed they are not allowed to travel for medical needs children who have cancer have to you know if there isn't you can't be treated even in the Gaza Strip you have to be treated with an Israeli hospitals and are separated from their families when they do so right so you lose all of this structural violence and the fact that Gaza has been under siege since 2006 the World Health Organization tells us that it's going to collapse the entire strip will collapse by 2020 under any other estimation this is genocidal violence and when I say that I don't see it lightly I say the fact per the Genocide Convention the idea of wanting destroy to destroy in whole or in part a people and what's happening in the Gaza Strip the separation of families the systematic dehumanization the limiting of access to medical care the limiting of access to food the inability to travel the inability to create life to sustain themselves should all put us on alert there is this is a this is a humanitarian catastrophe and yet we turn our attention only within the context of this kind of kinetic exchange of kinetic force between. Some Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip and Israeli use of you know advanced techno technologies to pound the Gaza Strip and so if to the best that we discuss that we say oh Israel might both sides are at fault in the best case scenario in the best case scenario but never about the discussion of what is the structure. Violence that is producing social death for Palestinians outside of the spectacle of violence well I was just going to ask you that because let's just read a couple lines from this b.b.c. Piece Israel has carried out fresh strikes on targets in Gaza as militants there stepped up rocket attacks following the killing of one of its leaders Israel says air and ground forces hit sites used by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group more than 150 rockets have been fired at Israel violence escalated after Israel killed p.j. Commander. 4 more Palestinians were also killed one Israeli man was injured by a rocket Israeli medical services say so how do you think this kind of story should be told. Yeah I think we should tell the story of Israel is pounding the territory over which it exercises complete control has maintained a population under siege on the brink of death in the course of on the in the course of social death and is shooting them like fish in a barrel. With you know to an apathetic international audience that wants to respond to this kind of structural violence with. You know a narrative of parity between these 2 sides Palestinians aren't placing Israelis under siege Palestinians can't control Israeli movement Pallas continues can't control what Israelis eat Palestinians don't control Israeli access to gas and electricity Palestinians don't control their hospitals do not control their medical care do not control their relationships with their family right you cannot lose that context you cannot lose that context that Israel is the only sergeant in the region that is actually maintaining an open prison of a population that is subject to collective punishment only tolerated by an international community that is accepted that is accepted that Gaza is equivalent to Islamic terrorism and so all of it all of it they can see that there's targets what targets in the Gaza Strip it's one of the most densely populated areas of the world any attack anywhere in the Gaza Strip will effectively be an attack on civilians they have nowhere to hide and in fact in the course of these onslaughts since 2008 to the present. The borders are sealed so they cannot even become refugees of war right so the cynical idea but they're entrapped they will be shot they will be killed you know I am constantly and ah that despite all this Palestinians in Gaza continue to teach us dignity resilience life this is where we are they're living you know in a in a in apocalyptic existence. And yet continue to resist they have the fact that there are now an 82nd week of protests civil protests on the perimeter where snipers are shooting at them where they are being blamed for their own death and yet continue to protest it is I think the most inspiring thing in the world and it's up to us it's up to us whether we are going to choose to listen to them and to hear them I hate when people ask me all the Palestinians just didn't use force then you all would be free right just don't use force really has. His thousands of Palestinian Gandhi's on going for 82 weeks of nonviolent protests and nobody has given you no idea if anything the Israeli Supreme Court in reviewing Israel's lethal use of force against those protesters not only condoned the use of force but describe the protesters how mass is new weapon of war so that even popular protests . Are weaponized and securitized so that there is no way out what is the way out for us for freedom if we can even March and be seen as human What does the international community want us to do in order to be free and Palestinians aren't waiting for that answer for teaching us that answer and hopefully will be vindicated we will be vindicated I want to ask you about those Friday marches in just a minute but I wanted to on Twitter there's a young man and you re tweeted him and I follow him Omar. I believe he's a journalist in Gaza and all day every day he just tweets he says I'm not doing any interviews what I'm going to do is tweet tell you what's happening here so 5 hours ago he wrote 4 consecutive strong explosions 53 minutes ago Gaza updates death toll risen to now 7 as you said he said 625 injured including a child schools universities and some N.G.O.s and shut down tomorrow threats of escalation from both sides Cairo trying to mediate a ceasefire as usual Gaza under attack hash tag across the whole strip yeah no this is an untenable status quo and it's a holding position you know Israel actually is in direct communication with Hamas leaders contrary to what they want to tell us and Hamas is in communication with Israeli leaders they are maintaining an unsustainable status quo but one that serves them both politically so can you tell us more about that and how do you get that information why get that information through other scholars like thought it Oni who wrote a wonderful book published with Stanford University Press called the mass contained he spent time in the region which very few people do actually and you know speaking to the masses leadership right which might sound even crazy into this Mike because people are like oh wait Hamas doesn't that mean you know masked fanatics you know lustful for death that's. Yes. I laugh because I want to scream sometimes thinking about the way that we construct our enemies in order to become so desensitized to the level and brutality of violence Palestinians are enduring every day how mass are formed in 1907 in the course of the 1st Palestinian intifada within less than 20 years they have changed their entire charter where the now if they enter into a unity government with the Palestinian Authority are willing to enter into direct negotiations with Israel and would conceive of a possible 2 state you know outcome they have transformed as an offshoot of the Egyptian you know Muslim Brotherhood have transformed to understand that you know electoral pot politics is better for them to achieve their primary goals which are governance goals they are rational political actors they left Syria and the course of you know Syria's entrenched civil war despite the fact that the Syrian regime had provided them political cover and support for many decades and relocated to up but these are all calculations of a politically minded group not of a lustful mass of Jew haters right and so how do we take seriously this political group and what they're saying well thought it takes that but it only takes them seriously by spending time in doing interviews right because they speak they learned they they have writings he studies their publications and demonstrates how they've evolved over time to the point now where they're basically in a holding position with Israel people actually been containing notice that the strike today is on the Islamic Jihad not on Hamas because they have been maintaining and quelling any kind of use of force from the Gaza Strip into Israel right that is a political actor a rational political actor and so based on what you heard what is his name again thought it Ok. Courage everyone to buy his book to read his work he's at the International Crisis Group in Jerusalem now and tell us more about the dialogue that's happening that we don't hear about it's not dialogue Oh no and this is not dialogue they're not actually trying to find a solution with one another but there is actually you know mediated communication of how to maintain a status quo of no violence well there is violence but no kinetic violence no peace Ok Right but that is that is something calculated right and Israel is benefiting tremendously from maintaining guys on the brink of war and neither you know being independent but nor ending in a full scale assault on the Gaza Strip except for intermittently we don't know why this attack is happening on us that Nick Jihad which is probably a cover for you know internally it could be because Netanyahu wants to you know leverage himself as you know these failed to build a coalition government within Israel and and unfortunately Palestinians in Gaza become cannon fodder for Israeli domestic politics demonstrating who is the greatest strongman right and we saw that during this most recent election where the blue and white party headed by Benny Gantz was no different than the liquid party in fact Benny Gantz ran a campaign because he was the chief of staff of the army under Netanyahu during the 2014 assault and was boasting about how he was personally responsible for bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age So even the liberal Flink of the Israeli government. Is in lockstep with this dehumanizing discourse there is no alternative there is an Israeli left and an Israeli right there and there's an Israeli establishment that has now you know normalized violence against Palestinians and because of their policies towards the West Bank there's they don't see them they don't so they don't see or hear Palestinians and so they're invisible there's no discussion of renewing any kind of negotiations there's definitely no you know there's no palace. Instate on the horizon that's a dead idea it's not going to happen now it's just about whether or not they're going to annex the 62 percent of the West Bank as a matter of law and not as a matter of fact since this story is going to get a lot of attention today to tell us what people need to know about Islamic Jihad who is this group you know I can't tell you the internal details of of Islamic Jihad like I probably can tell you know a little bit more about how but I will tell you this that Islamic Jihad is also the founder of it was formerly. Was formerly a member of what was the Neeson grouping that becomes how much in 1907 he was frustrated with the fact that Hamas was only intent or that the movement that proceeds how massive the Palestinian national group was only intent on some sort of Muslim revival but the idea was that Palestinians could not get free right this is the idea that Palestinians could not get free until they were spiritually rehabilitated in oriented to God So it was less about confronting Israel and more about transforming Palestinian society and you know more concerned about building you know proliferating mosques. This was about this was an Islamic revival movement this is an Islamic revival movement they only become a Palestinian national movement in 1987 and partly the founder of Islamic Jihad is an offshoot of this because he feels that have in order to be legitimate needs to target Israel directly and can't just stand on the sidelines trying to change Palestinian society so they've been a bit of a rival group to Hamas within the Gaza Strip about what is the strategy forward what is the use of force necessary against Israel what is the proper strategy towards liberation and as they've seen how mass now become more of a governing body and you know when we see this when. And would any resistance group becomes part of a governing body are less concerned with actually confronting. Israel or the o. Press or however you have it and are more concerned with their political clout clout and their political dominance so how much power do they have in the Gaza Strip and how how do they affect every day people I cannot tell you that I would be lying if I told you probably have to have thought on the line around. Me me on the line or other people who are I'm out on the line or other people that are actually studying this closely right and are there on a daily basis today we're speaking with not our cat and human rights attorney and assistant professor at Rutgers University in New Brunswick her new book is Justice for Some law and the question of Palestine nor has served as legal counsel to the u.s. House of Representatives and as a legal advocate for Palestinian refugees at the United Nations she's a regulator regular commentator and the national media and has been widely publicized published if you were in the area she will be speaking tonight at Berkeley City College at 7 pm it's a ticket event and it's 2050 Center Street and Berkeley and if you'd like to join us the toll free number is 866798255 you can also e-mail your call at k l w dot org Or tweet us at your call radio Nora since you brought up the Friday March of return marches in Gaza I mean we've covered these it's got to be months now and I feel like so much of the media attention unless you really look for it because of Trump and the impeachment and all of that is really taken up and so you don't really hear much about what is happening in Gaza unless you look for it so can you give us an update I'm just looking right now at Mondo ice and one of their latest articles is from October 26th and they report that $95.00 civilians were shot and injured including $43.00. And at that point on October 26th that was the a.t.f. Great March of return so 1st off just remind us what this March is about yeah let me let me and also just what I really appreciate rows that you're highlighting how limited space there is but in fairness it's not just Trump in the impeachment there's been no attention to the guys in March in return you know not in the you know look at Hong Kong protests this is remarkable what these people are doing but look at the attention that we're giving them you know they're brave they're using these ingenious tactics against you know Chinese state repression that it up even getting sustained attention and there's space for them we just do not pay attention to anything that demonstrates Palestinian agency this is a good point the New York Times had a mini doc about these young people in Hong Kong writing letters to their families in case they are killed on the front lines and it was a beautiful 5 to 8 minute Doc saying Mom and Dad I love you I had to I had to do this for freedom and my country exactly you know look at that we're in that case we know that they're their willingness to die something noble that they're fighting for their freedom what could be more noble to sacrifice your life for and yet you hear Palestinians say the same thing and their willingness to die is equated to hate of Jews now 2 things are happening there right on the one hand is complete you raise your Palestinian humanity and the fact that they are like every other human who will not who will not tolerate life without dignity and freedom right but on the other hand the other thing that's happening there is a very self absorbed narrative by Jewish people who think that it's about them that somehow Palestinian love of freedom is about a hatred of Jews right there's a self absorption there right it's like saying when women say we want to be free men's responses Yeah they just. This is penis envy no that's a self obsession right that's the self-absorbed ness and a reflection of a supremacy a social political and economic supremacy that can allow you to see that and to erase this context right so Palestinians the only time they got any coverage in the Gaza March of return was on the day of the embassy move they start the Gaza March of return on March 30th which is the day Land Day which is to come a memory. The 1976 murder of 6 Palestinian citizens of Israel who were protesting Israeli confiscation of their lands not in the West Bank including his Drusilla in the Gaza Strip within Israel because they are our 2nd class citizens there and settler colonialism is ongoing even within the Green Line . And it was meant to last until March me May 15th 1948 commemorating the Palestinian Nakba and only time this March got any attention is on May 14th when the u.s. Moved its embassy to Jerusalem and Israeli snipers these really army prepared to use excessive force even before they knew what was going to happen so this wasn't a response to some sort of risk that the protesters pour posed to Israeli civilians or Israeli military infrastructure this was premeditated we knew the day before they were they planned on using excessive force of indoor Lieberman in the foreign minister at the time immediately says there will be no international or domestic investigation all of this. Is preempted right and snipers are set up on May 14th on hilltops 300 meters away separated by a militarized perimeter Palestinians are on their limbs who are also separated from the perimeter through a buffer zone and are shot to kill 60 of them are killed through sniper fire and the media reported it. The media reported it as Palestinians ruining Israeli celebrations. Even on the day of that large they could not even call it for what it was it was a massacre it was a massacre and they could not call it for what it was The Washington Post ran a headline that said how much this new war this was a civil society initiative that was the only day there has been coverage of these protests and now in the week 82 now over 200 Palestinians have been killed near their nearly 25000 of them have been injured if you count there are passing organizations that are actually you know calculating all this it's all public valuable things to the Internet and they have shown us that 98 percent of these killings have been deliberate lethal targets so the Palestinians that have been shot have been targeted above the waist in the abdomen in the neck in the head in the back as they're fleeing children who are hiding behind you know garbage canisters targeted and killed young men targeted in their growing right this is about this is about terrorizing a population this is also sadistic targeting this is that they are clonal minatory violence this is front here warfare right predicated on this concept that the other side is not. Savage and doesn't think about humanity in the same way that the rest of civilized society does so it's best to use this kind of excessive force in order to do this shock going on and the more quickly that's actually better for everyone including for them I mean the what's happening Israel is continuing a legacy of Indian warfare mastered here in North America and Frontier warfare and that's what we're seeing well to your point I just was searching if Gaza March of return and I don't see much other than 2 weeks ago and this is not national us media I mean this is the Palestine Chronicle The Irish Times monitor and I did find one report from the Center for her. Minorites published on October 8th just a couple of days ago on Friday the 82nd week of the great March of return Israeli forces continue to use life fire and other violent means and policing unarmed protests 90 people were injured including 31 children 2 women and one paramedic of the injured 39 sustained wounds from live fire while 11 were hit directly by tear gas canisters medical sources reported 3 wounded in serious injury and again this is from the. Center for Human Rights it's very difficult just in the last 2 weeks to find anything in the us national media we're going to take a quick break today we're joined by Nora Erekat a human rights attorney and assistant professor at Rutgers University in New Brunswick Nora is the author of a new book Justice for Some law and the question of Palestine this is your call and we'll be back after this 'd. This is your call a show that relies on engage listeners you can join today's conversation by calling 866-798-8255 that's toll free 866-798-8255 you can also post a comment or question at your call radio dot org You may tweet us at your call radio you may e-mail us to your call at k l w dot org impeachment will be the topic of discussion on 18 coming up on at 11 o'clock here on cable to be right after your call. This is your call on today we're speaking with Nora Erekat a human rights attorney assistant professor at Rutgers University in New Brunswick and Co founding editor of Judge it's an online magazine covering the Middle East Norah has served as legal counsel to the u.s. House of Representatives and as a legal advocate for Palestinian refugee rights at the United Nations her new book is Justice for Some law and the question of Palestine and if you're in the area Norah will be speaking tonight at Berkeley City College at 7 pm it's 2050 Center Street and it is a ticket event you can find more information at your call radio dot org And if you have any questions or comments for Nora you can give us a call 866-798-8255 you can also e-mail your call at k l w dot org Or tweet us at your call radio. Nor when you were talking about injured Palestinians I was reminded of a video and I don't remember what news outlet put it together but it was all of these young Palestinian boys who no longer have legs or one leg they have one leg. And they're now learning to play soccer with one leg and so many young boys have lost a leg you know what we've heard from medical doctors at a Shifa hospital in Gaza City is that from the injured that came into the hospital they were deliberately shot to be maimed this wasn't an accident right none of this is an accident when when the head of the army was asked why don't you use non-lethal force to push back the Palestinian protesters like a water cannon the Army chief of staff responded that the water cannons do not have adequate range which should immediately trigger for any reasonable listener Well if the water cannon doesn't have adequate ring that means the Palestinians must be really far away and if those Palestinians are using rocks right most or like Molotov cocktails at most with their arms as you note to project these these you know not advanced technologies how are they posing any risk to anybody if they're not far enough if they're not close enough to be pushed back with water cannons how can they be close enough to to impede the promoter a militarized perimeter with watchtowers that's electrocuted Ok And yet there were still snipers on the other side shooting to kill them. You just I mean everything is there everything is there to understand what the situation is and yet because of and I think that the media Yes Obviously us. Its desire to continue to control geo political resources in the Middle East to maintain its presence of you know military bases its its central command its access to poor it's who trades with whom right this is all driven by Also u.s. Imperial interests within and Israel fits within that framework but the media is part and parcel to it there is no crude crude I mean I'm so grateful to you Rose you are actually asking me questions most of the times the questions that I get reflect a complete lack of knowledge of what's happening there these stock questions that they must have you know registered for maybe 19092000 right what are the prospects for peace will the Palestinians negotiate who represents the Palestinians what is the responsibility of Hamas how do you get them to disarm it's just the same we're never getting to this critical analysis of what does it mean for Israel to maintain a Naval Sea generally and blockade since 2006 on a besieged population that cannot control their own lives that their agricultural lands in 2014 were decimated more than 2000 acres of land Israel's excuse of course is well Palestinian militants were shooting rockets from those lands except in the same breath they told us Palestinian militants were shooting rockets from urban areas that are over populated in order to use possums as human shields so which one is it so they decimate these agricultural land so Palestinians can't feed themselves they also have limited access to water Gaza is a medic on the Mediterranean coast it's gorgeous it's been the site of you know a coveted colonial poor. Since Alexander the Great right and then the Ottomans in the British I mean this is a coveted port Palestinians can't swim out past 3 nautical miles to even fish to feed their families and farmers are targeted boats are confiscated and they can't even fish so you know. It's really difficult for anybody as we see this dehumanization I mean Palestinians are not unique for this kind of dehumanization Obviously I'm mentioning native life here in the United States but obviously black life I mean as similarly been you know we live in a very anti black society that has somehow normalized the overrepresentation of black people in prison that has somehow normalized the use of state and vigilante force lethal force against black people without accountability so this normalization that makes it you know this toleration of this kind of violence against brown and black bodies is something that unites Palestinians with this with these marginalized communities all over the world which is the source of our strength right it's that solidarity work that becomes the source of our strength because we recognise that we're not in this alone. Our future is a future for all marginalized people our future is a future for a better world a better way to be right horizontal leaderships ways of caring for one of the ways of overcoming an alternative the same way the 3rd World the 3rd World as the 3rd World because it sought to counter the 1st in the 2nd world and their their their commitment to nuclear proliferation the 3rd World was the 3rd way but there was another way against nuclear proliferation it was the global south that was saving the rest of the world from itself against Soviet and us sure and I a lesion right so you know it's the South that continues to teach the rest of the world what our future is can look like and I know that there was a native contingent of a few people from California have gone that's right to the West Bank to meet people to talk I'm not sure if they were able to go to Gaza but no it's really hard to get into Gaza and here I'm really got that you mention that too I want to lift up the name of Nadia to most. Represents eyewitness Palestine which to which takes delegations regularly I urge everyone to go see for yourself Ok if you think that everybody is just really biased fine it's like post modern idea of what is truth go for yourself there's a reason that Israel didn't allow she the Lebanon Armada to come in and it's not because Trump told them it's because of this idea that this could undermine Israel's own mythologies about itself as a liberal settler colony right and so now that the North has done that and she does it also on behalf of the Palestinian youth movement which is building these connections between Palestinian youth all over. The Globe and so yeah there's delegations of need of youth to Bob that had has led a delegation of feminist allegation that's included Angela Davis on that delegation there's been other delegations that have gone that have now come to constitute the core of the u.s. Academic and cultural boycott of Israel which is the driving force of what led to the academic boycott within the American Studies Association there have been 6 delegations led by the Dream Defenders. From Florida that have taken black cultural workers organizers political leaders to the region to see from themselves to basically create new itineraries of solidarity that traverse what would otherwise be these you know monic obstacles of how it is that we're supposed to learn about the about Palestine and how it is you know what frameworks we have to contain them with them and these delegations are creating new itineraries of solidarity and witness and new frameworks that are overcoming these really limited boxes that want us to understand the question of Prost I'm some sort of a conflict and peace resolution and not a struggle for freedom you know nor are you made of such a point earlier when you said think about how we look at the young people in Hong Kong or the young people in Lebanon or the young people in Chile I mean we just talked about the uprising in Chile on Friday show by the young people in Iraq I mean you can keep going down the line. You don't. You really hear that much about the young people in the West Bank and Gaza especially in Gaza these young people who are to know that they could lose a leg or more of their lives Yes So so tell us more about this youth movement and Gaza so the I mean this is this is been on the team it is a young man who decided looking at his lands as a refugee that he wanted he wanted to go home and what does it mean for Palestinians you know 3 fourths of the Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip are refugees so there is an existential crisis for Israel which has equated its own existence on the apps on one on maintaining a Jewish demographic majority but also which is therefore predicated on the forced exile of Palestinians and so a Palestinian refugee claiming that they were there 1st claiming their right to return is immediately disrupting right this is this mythology that Jews have always been there and that this is all you know this is about Jewish sovereignty this is a settler sovereignty for them so even refugees claiming refugee status for you know ardent Zionist Israelis is an existence but that's why they attack b.d.s. B.D.'s is a nonviolent movement the reason they're opposed to it is there's no rockets you want to practice nonviolent civil disobedience this is it the reason is because it asserts that one of its tenants is the right of return for refugees and they consider any claim of return and belonging as an attack against Israel so here is an entire political project that has self to find itself right that is the excuse me I guess that's redundant but that is defined itself. On the absence of Palestinians right as defined itself on the removal of Palestinians as a noble cause. You have to think about then what is this project and is it in fact noble or is it instead of a violent project one that perpetuates racial emanation domination exclusion so what we see in Gaza is the logical outcome this isn't some awful contingency but there is no other way out right and so I remember themas part of the youth that is a refugee who decided there's no way home but to continue to assert our belonging and that's where this comes from Hamas has tried to take it over for obviously political clout but the young people have said no this is our movement and when we're talking about the young people I mean when you're talking about something as simple as wanting to go to college say overseas and then go back home we had a couple of young men on from Gaza and one of them I'm trying to find their names and hopefully I find that by the end of the show one of them could not leave the other one could leave but now he cannot go back and so it's like just just something as simple as wanting to go to school maybe in the u.s. Or Europe or stay there a lot people make these choices rose even never simple they can't get medical they can't get medical attention Ok so it's just really Jonathan Cook had this beautiful He's a freelance. Journalist based in Nazareth He had this beautiful article and he recounted the story of a woman a policy and woman from Gaza who had to give birth in a Jerusalem hospital so she had to get permission to go give birth she was given you know a medical humanitarian exception to give birth she gave birth to triplets prematurely these really government forced her to go back to Gaza and leave her babies in prenatal care 2 of them died and the nurses and others will say that it's because they could not be held by their mama. And only one survived that's how simple this is and it's the use of administrative violence on a daily basis so you want to talk about rockets you want to talk about assassinations and that's what we're going to pay attention and yeah Ok fine that's when that's our opportunity to actually intervene in a very violent media cycle but the real story is the administrative violence that takes place on a daily basis and it's only one side that has the power and the jurisdiction to apply this administrative violence it is not equal there is no parity there is no parity in this situation and we should be unequivocal that there is an oppressor and an oppressed we can all be in pain we can all have you know we can all be mourning we can all have claims about you know violence and loss of life but that doesn't negate I will respect an Israeli mother who is mourning the life of her child who was killed I will respect that I will mourn that child with her but that doesn't mean I have to equate the violence between Israel and Palestinians there should be no move to that that is that is illogical that is a violent shift and one that's meant to maintain the status quo and I think that what you're talking about and what we spoke about with these 2 young men gets lost in these 5 minute segments about rockets and Hamas you're not learning about what actually is life like for young people I mean I think this is right how often of the 1500000 Palestinians are under the age of 15 that about is that right I think the numbers are almost close to 2000000. So we're talking about a lot of young people a lot of young people we're talking about a 50 percent unemployment reign but this isn't like you know they want to tell us you know there's so much more there's millions of dollars that flow into the Gaza Strip and if it wasn't for Palestinian mismanagement then you know that's not true that's not true you're basically. Billed even I think it was even Nancy Pelosi imagine. She even Or it might have been Senator Barbara Boxer at the time but one of our you know one of the California state reps condemned Israeli force because it was us schools that Israel was targeting right so there's almost no logic of you nobody wants to invest and build because there's it's almost surely going to be targeted by Israel they want to maintain Palestinians in this hostage like I mean talk about talk about a perpetual c h a perpetual emergency I Hate You know I don't want to say concentration camp but for some reason people understand what that is right but you can't understand what Gaza is that's what should be evoked when you talk about Gaza those images and instead what we get is images of Islamic violence and fundamentalism and those are all constructed those are all constructed. Palestinians now Mike I mentioned by 2020 access to water access to food education the fact that Israel has targeted the largest power plant in 2014 means that even access to medicines that can't be refrigerated this is a man made disaster this is an apocalypse but Israel has constructed this is the worst Saif I movie you've ever seen that your taxpayer money is funding under the veneer of Israeli self defense. That's what that is we have an email from Karen who says I recommend your listeners read kingdom of Olives an ash edited by Michael Bohn and I let wild men this tells through essays by various writers It recounts the problems of personal life the Palestinians undergo daily and really opened my eyes I wish all of our government folks would read it my family and I wept after reading it because the cobwebs that the media provide lifted from our eyes we had I let on a couple times with one of the Palestinian women in the book and she's Jewish She's from the Bay Area and she said that going there and talking to people and spending time there she did a complete 180 because she was raised to think one thing and when she went people and now she's so close that this young Palestinian woman they were traveling on book tour called oh you know people when Israelis say oh I want to go but I would be killed that's a lie Palestinians are not going to use force against anybody I mean if you come if you roll in on a tank an armed you know with m. 16 on your shoulder ready to shoot to kill yeah you are going to be in danger because you've come as you've come to combat if you've come to visit you are going to be embraced you're going to be welcomed into homes and given right Palestinians are ready to welcome everybody they're not telling people not to come they're begging people to come and see for themselves so I urge listeners you know our. Father didn't uncomfortable in which is the only way to learn by the way is through our discomfort but if that's really bothering you this segment even book a ticket and go and most people can go Palestinians can't go part of Israel's other colonial project which is you know the idea of. Removing the Palestinian natives in order to replace them with Jewish Zionist settlers right in their place also includes you know forced exile as a form of removal so that's why 6000000 refugees cannot go home it's part of that forced exile if they come home then they you know it appends this project of removal but even Palestinians like me who don't have I don't have any identification as a palestinian my father's identification was revoked without due process enough silent deportation process right so I have to visit my own homeland my own families as an American tourist and I am subject to the whim of a soldier at that militarized border to deny me entry or to grant me and tree and now because of an anti b.d.s. Law where they exclude anybody supporting of the you know boycott movement now I probably can't enter because of my political opinions right my advocacy of this nonviolent grassroots movement but so most Palestinians have a hard time going home but other people don't they have privileges that even we right with this privileged American passport also myself as a settler on these lands but even that doesn't help me overcome this exclusion that's my own exclusion but nobody else has that excuse right and if you want to scholarship to go there's organizations that will send you don't go on birthright because that's part of the problem but there is eyewitness Palestine there are you know you can join the Dream Defenders if you want to go on that delegation you can join an academic delegation just go when were you last there I actually was there the summer also on you know I was granted entry but I was granted entry and you know I celebrated and when I left I parted with everyone as if it would be my last time that's the experience you come up you roll up. And you you know you hold your breath. And you wait for this you know administrative you know violent you know process to decide whether or not you can visit your family when you smile at the border in order to alleviate any tension that you might be a threat and you hold your breath the whole time and then you know my partner was with me at the time and I was so anxious just waiting right because you're put aside in no holding room and they have to like look at all your paperwork your whole family history the better data and he's like you know I was I was on the brink of tears right cause I'm so anxious am I going to go in or not is this the moment when I'm denied entry is this when I become a refugee right that's what's happening is this the moment I become a refugee and he said You look so nervous you're going to scare them but you're planning something. And then we go inside and then when I leave I have to leave as if when I say goodbye I say goodbye as if it's my last time because I don't know if I'm going to have that luck again what was your experience like what did anything's stand out for you the situation is always worse always space is shrinking Palestinian movement is increasingly limited so you know I make it a point that I want to travel between areas but it's exhausting if you live there on that on a daily basis you probably won't leave your small Bantustan right our reservations because traversing the road blocks that is real you know Israelis the Israeli army creates which are a product of the peace process by the way right the thing that we talk about all the checkpoints I saw about yeah well it's the peace process that put those up areas a b. And c. Are an invention of also 2 in 1905 so it's really ironic that when you want peace you want to go back to the peace process accept the peace process that's impeding peace. Right so we have to think outside of these frameworks and one day you might get through and the next day you might not you have no idea what's going to happen but that was the thing that I noticed that was really the hardest was the deepening deep meaning and deliberate fragmentation between Palestinian communities which is a very deliberate Israel has pursued this logic within Israel since 1948 when it separated Palestinian the Palestinians that remained from one another in order to undermine national cohesion it's why they forcibly removed and then displace the Palestinians into the into what they call the side or the in close own in the negative it's why they want to disrupt Palestinian cohesion in the Galilee and they create settlements within Israel 350 settlements 1st and then 50 settlements out of the 370 settlements that Israel builds in its 1st you know years between 49 and 52 are built on confiscated Palestinian lands within Israel specifically to undermine policy and national cohesion and we see that clearly the fragmentation between the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank between Palestinians in Ramallah from those in Hebron from those in. Bethlehem we see that certainly between the Palestinians in East Jerusalem so that was the thing that I noticed the most nor I can't believe the show is almost over I thought we had more time I wanted to ask you in closing I'd listen to a couple talks you gave and one of the questions you ask in your book is what future can Palestinians build not only for their own sake but also that offers Jewish Israelis a better future than Israel is able to offer them and in the one of the talks I watched you said you don't have the answer and it's also a question with some tension but after after doing all this research looking at 100 years of law when you look at the question you asked from the beginning where are you now so you know we face. Sorry we have to have you back I mean I guess so I will this is the book and attention in the book is you know is the tension between looking at legal literature beats and looking at freedom literature and by the end of the book and this is the this is my thesis I have band in the legal literature and this is going to be about our work as a political activist and building and doing the law can't do it only a critical mass of people only a critical mass of people can do and so that's why by the end of the book I'm basically asking the reader to dream to exercise a radical imagination I draw on Afro Futurism poor of who have to continue to overcome slavery and imagine a better future is for black communities to also try to invoke a kind of Palestinian Futurism we're not just trying to end you know zionist israeli domination but we are trying to create an entirely new reality were our removal our death is not normalized is not somehow something we have to bargain for but we create something where humanity is mutually reinforcing rather than mutually exclusive nor Erekat is author of Justice for Some law and the question of Palestine should be speaking tonight at Berkeley City College at 7 pm 2050 Center Street it's a ticket event find more information at your call radio dot org Thank you so much Nora thank you for having us thanks to Leah says rain for producing today's show and thank you for joining us I'm Rosa ocular it's your call on the b.b.c. News Hour on today's program we reported on a new flare up in the long running conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza and the efforts in Spain to form a left wing governing coalition after an inconclusive election. 2 o'clock this afternoon for b.b.c. News hour here on 91.7. Francisco k.l.o.v. I would like to thank pipe bar for donating bunch to our staff and volunteers during our fall fundraiser pizza by the Pio or slice plus daily specials located at $1432.00 Valencia Street San Francisco p.-i bar s. F. Dot com 91.7 killed abuse San Francisco it's 11 o'clock the impeachment inquiry has just as many characters plot twists and turning points as a t.v. Drama if the story has you confused consider this your episode got some w.a.m. You and n.p.r. This is one.