Well you doing. I'm planting seeds is totally the reason yes. Studio is coming. What do you like dancing. Because it's the only thing I was ever half good at because I don't have to think I don't like it is all I'm fit for. Or I want to know did I stop you being a dancer Well you tried to shove the bottle in your mouth and went on anyway do you missed it. Remember who that woman was have got her memories. She was very selfish really. Such a whiner. Oh I think you like dancing because moving feels good and you move better than any party. I'm not a dancer I'm a part time receptionist who gives dancing lessons on the side that's why I was skint always so poor we can only eat macaroni no macaroni we'll eat potato potatoes then Willy noodles. You were born a dancer and. I don't know how you and your inside me. Clearly didn't want to be human the way I feel and I never wanted to be human and a chicken and armadillo. When I'd have had a baby dragon could say. I was a ghost. The same thing as you are when you date. Well you are happy. There's no such thing. What you learning from planting seeds on learning to engine a transformations is a seat and then it's a plant and then it's a seed it always comes round so don't do that phases face I know being a new poetry's. You want the pony to know who. You want to be a go killing this you do know is that it is a plant is Windows to decoration it's not corroborated choice. I think including silly silly me that. When you. See how this happens why is it darling tell me you can tell me it's Ok to miss It's Ok Just tell me. Was it. Well who's on the mat when you go. To the. So you don't I'm going to. This is if. I. May. I know. This is going to give me a letter what do you get. Me Mr. All right over right. Although I would need to Face Book. Just put all that why you come back and we saw this out Ok. Why did you keep Ronson never. Asked. Do you date do you know what you don't know are you going to tell me I haven't and that seemed better for men but this cold out is it informed Charles because you're a bit flushed and your last 3 years haven't I maybe even the man of whom you've seen something go by some sleazy little creep to spy on the family not ringing the bell hospital toto can just pull you believed graceful who rarely are you going to stand by that description because I thought you had a very clear complexion for a young man with a probable fall see how referring to you. Know when you gave her a letter that's all he did he went to the school and waited till she came out she was going to come off it and since when was awfully frightened of some little man with an envelope since she was attacked Dani one of. She was attacked it was a year ago she wasn't it was older boys mucking around but there was no city she just a phone they say things they pinned her and. Just to the point where she could walk home from school and around again oh yeah we can't afford the nice bit of town Dani this is our life. Doing nothing I won't go from school in a row not in a Don't you. Just don't need don't still and you doing it. Well that's. Ok Mary yeah Dani I do now Oh oh oh oh oh oh Ok go just take like what I got to not so no just no I'm sorry I'm fine I just I just need to get out just what we owe you oh Jesus. Show me. The way to look him up on this front I'll get enough get out of me and do look at he's. 2 Ok I know it's again on e Bay is what we do this is what we do you bring you back come back now just to give it time. Who you never mind never mind not yet telling me your name what you name 3 hots only one day you're coming back where are you you know where you are how much lovely you know who I am known how her mother sorry I'm so sorry what do you give that some pretty piece right don't worry this happens all the time all the time you bring you back one memory of the time you want to drink coffee no like 2 sugars and a bit of ginger cake I've got some in a box the wrong with drinking through yes you remember she's on her way oh that's my recipe. He remembered me he had me going to have a coffee back to sugars Actually he's not allowed caffeine the need to learn the nuts will be here soon I'll wait with you is that Ok I don't think you can actually agree foods as I said Leave us alone. Here have smooth ginger cake. Thank you. You can be all right. Dani Emery me of agree that we have to explain what's happened because this needs to stop doubting it really does she want to go 1st Emma. Alright well as I understand it you and Emma were having problems for about a year what problems you didn't want the same thing anymore oh is that right that's what you told me Dani. Yes I suppose that's true in a way well do you want to tell this I think forgive me but I think what might be most useful is if we stick to facts actual events actual actions Emma when did Dani ask you to move out. Or I will be fair about this he never told us to move out I said I couldn't stay the way things were and he said well you better go then one was this February 21st 2009 week after Valentine's Day 2 days before flees 13th birthday and it's Ok it's Ok you can have him now if you like but shooting fish in a barrel isn't it facts the latest concrete memory we can be sure of is the trip to the beach in Cornwall is that right Dani Yes the trip and it says you took an off season long weekend you took your daughter out of school fully tried sushi for the 1st time Dani took you on a victory lap of the restaurant on the shoulders singing the theme from Dambusters Yes yes that was. That was the last happy time that was wonderful Can you remember the date March no April 2008. The daffodils were late it was the 1st warm weekend of the year they all came out once and we just we decided at the whole spring we'd missed in one weekend so you agree April 2008 that maybe memories that are later than that but that's the latest verifiable memory he remembers my cake. You have him he remembered my ginger cake that's a much nicer memory though of course Trish what do you do I'm a p a for a film company why just sorry just obsessing about the cake Trish when did you enjoy the meat he doesn't remember I told him well when did you start living together no hang on I want to hear the 1st answer when did you make him in May May 2008 he designed our website. No yes he's slimy come on and that's not new ways it is. Human knowing months before you left look this is exactly the sort of thing we talked about you're not helping Dani sorry sorry so camping donei I know we're all adults now you know I reckon I reckon you already sleeping with the milkman all really well we've got to go have version of it to go on Haven't we I don't remember I reckon she was cheating the free gold lot I reckon that's what pushed me over the side no sweetie no it was but I would tell you what I replied have learned is that who could you pick up with that my woman doesn't understand me and she's getting frisky with a low thought younger girl no one has a milkman anymore she said yes did you have a milkman is that what you remember Johnny. And he's serious no we did not have a milkman but God forbid that should get in a way of a little dated gag I could make you laugh I remember not he said with a chuckle brothers is this helpful Dani you understand what we're trying to do don't you do you want this do you want to remember what really happened yes. We're going to do that we're going to bring you back one memory at a time all right all right do you have any memories after the holiday home or the next day unpacking going back to work would not have cheated on you emma I would never do that I have no memory of you know how convenient maybe you are the sort of woman who drives a man to cheat on you not you are pushed well plain that you probably stop shaving your armpits and started eating cheese and onion Christian but I'm guessing a whiff of cheese and onion where you out he was cheating on me knowing whole month apparently that's not useful that's not a fact he was living with me and sleeping with you want to call it you think already had amnesia you had already decided to break off ads you know what maybe I just kept going in the wrong from do you said you said there was no point in continuing the relationship the way it was. Do you when I said that in the wardrobe maybe hiding in the kitchen cupboard checking out a cake tin see if you wake up next the wrong naked women you're probably going to try and be polite about it to remember what's going on she getting distracted here I meant that we needed to talk about things I mean that we had to try and fix things try counseling never down the aisle so you so you try cheating instead you reckon that was an easy solution did you he's not a cheat this is all subjective this is not useful Oh my even arguing about you husband is a cheating lying low life darling good luck to find cheating shocking stuff it just maybe I was thinking of you maybe I always do what you sound like how could I be calling out her name. Oh let me on the last 3 week you bake to me here begging to me you said you said thank you for being in my life you have to marry me stronger you'll always be in my life you saw me on our wedding day. And you are I say probably having 2nd thoughts even then. Oh oh. Oh oh she's just it's all right he'll be fine and that Jesus and oh don't even I'm sorry. I'll just get the nuts Danny you're Ok. With as am I I'm here to time in Boston and I'm telling you to stay with me I'm a bright overwrite. It's alright. In a moment but he's fine I'll tell the consultant on his rounds later that was you know these are oh I didn't realize you've got all of them I read every bloody one you know what they are rubbish all this stuff all this stuff it's. The brain is just a 3 pound lump of jelly We don't know how it works maybe we've got cells maybe we don't maybe we got minds as well as brains maybe we don't I didn't mean I didn't intend you to get too caught up in the philosophical I understood it Ok thank you very much I'm not dim I worked through it the light bulb went on I get it what you say what you all say is that everything we think and feel and everything we are is just a pattern of electrical activity we're a bunch of chemical sloshing around in this bit of meat there's bits of meat just pink jelly that Withers without blood and oxygen dies and kills you the moment it shrivels Oh oh and then you say then you say by the way everything you think makes you special is nothing but everything you feel is just a game someone's playing with you because look all I can stick this electrode in your head and make you laugh when nothings funny and quiet stuff that hasn't even happened to you and you know all that and then you write books about it and I've actually only published the one the one paper I just said you wanted to understand you write books about it you put jokes in them and you say oh no Isn't this person ating look what study of the brain tells us about the human condition it's not as a new thing Oh it's terrifying it's terrifying and anyone who thinks it isn't is a smug stupid busted who must think their brain is made of a different jelly to the rest of us the one book in particular which provoked. Him him this one he doesn't even make sense until you. Brain believes trying to decipher it New York Times best seller list OS you kill 3000 brain cells hitting your head off the thing it's just the same smug terrifying crap why do you keep saying smug because they are terrifying me with this I may not get all day what's wrong with them maybe they are sketchy in the way you are but I think what I feel isn't fear it's all at the courage humanity has in the face of Yes All right it could make life seem bono but to see it clear to understand to write with honesty and dignity about offer Gelati. You know even a proper doctor just a big student an overinflated school kid. Pregnant . I don't even know if I should tell him. Well it's really. I mean that's up to you. Yes. It is. So in birds had to flee she's fine she said just spoke to her it's Ok. To say. Hi. To each one coming change my mind but you didn't. Do. This change doesn't it. The Nice him. He wanted me to get God. He did yes well I he said he could see in me because he said I was born to create transformations. Snuffly 12 he was a bit drunk it probably just meant he wanted me to touch process thank you but you transformed him if he wanted to send me a letter why didn't he just put it in the post I wouldn't give him our address. You've missed him haven't you he was my dad we were happy when he was here. And not been happy without him we have. Been happy without him too but are now saying Do you ever wish you could come back that's not going to happen is it will no but if it did tonight. If it was like it was her dreaming when you 2 were happy. That's not going to happen is it. I think I can tell you returned wakes up at 10 thinks that he wants to talk to you you don't want me to talk to him you won't give him our guest that was I don't know what's happening flee but when you do tell me then when you sure Ok. Ok fine I'll sleep in everything. Take account of and I know what I'm cat money how could it have been so scary it went when those boys went from a one of been so scared after. A fight no I don't it was a home. By. Right. And help me. Pay it was supposed to. Help me oh. My. God. What you need to do. Oh so look out the window. My. Full moon over the incinerator Polis butting bodyparts know the most beautiful in this light. So lovingly. So as a woman who's there woman with you. Might this afternoon fit but. That yeah did you see I really look up even bowing our eyes out she was fit that was your wife Patricia. Right. Do you remember Donny. You think I left you you left me don't need. More happened. Tonight. I think you must fall in love with Patricia. She's fit a terrible hack up. I can't remember loving anyone but you can imagine nothing anyone but you think that was almost here in half when we went right back you came in from what later and later takes paid jobs dancing jobs for no money so you don't you be home to babysit I wouldn't even be there when you were home. We stopped laughing we stopped making love. Once we were doing the washing up you just tell and you grabbed me just grap me in this desperate hug and I remember thinking Oh my God he's really lost yes to leave me and he can't bear it but an opportunity I didn't know that that wasn't true. And once you were out all night and when you came in your clothes smell of the sea but he said you've been working through the night I told myself I believed you and one day I said we can't go on if it's like this and you said and you better leave. It sit on it was me too it was really dying all the joy we had slowly dying but that was me too must have been. When he said that. How old I had. Grown over in the street how old I was shameless with grief. You take it back begged you not to mean it and you said the thing is you feel what you feel don't you can't be helped I didn't do the date no no listen to me I didn't do that whoever that man was whatever he thought he was doing it's gone. Gone. I don't remember him he's never coming back. You know me you know me what did you say to me when I 1st met you when you wouldn't date me what did you say I said how do I know you're not some sick bastard who gets off on the desperation of single mothers and of that that's why I said I'm a mom I can't do casual How do you know this is going to be what you want for long enough to make us safe and honest and well. I don't remember yes because I'm not supposed to prompt if you forget I was very clear I said. You can't know that all you can know is if you like me enough to risk it which was named I was very smooth. I think I kissed you about n.t. 30 pretty show. For his case. He'll have read when I can now is when I feel well anyone can know is what they feel. Oh oh Jesus is Jesus dummy. Oh my God it's Ok it's Ok Oh Ok tell me. Sheesh so right so are. We going to have. 000000 is it was no nothing at all it's Ok it's Ok we can do this we can bring you back a little bit at a time but you know I'm dying to know who you are the only way you nobody really knows and I said it was an accident that you're going to be how you are getting better oh do you know who I am. How we married. Can you remember my name I keep forgetting you are married so I'm and I do remember yes yes great you are and have been full of yes that's right we were looking out the window Can you remember what we were talking about. You said I agee 17000 pounds that was yesterday I said that yesterday you said you gave me. I did say that I would not pay you to give me that you didn't I'm Emma remember and my I know who you are yes it's and you're Ok you said she wasn't my kid and I didn't get to tell either of you what to do well when did I say that you said I was a tonic as want to be artist who sold his soul for money and the only reason you'd be even with me was because the alternative was sleeping on the street I didn't say that's for he that was he when things were bad and all we were all holding a bag lady that's what you said he said that made you all whole and bad lady and that was the only calling of woman I could create but I wasn't going to keep you any longer. To didn't I don't remember but I don't get thank you kill my cat. You. Look you remembering the fight we had to offer you said it was over I was very upset you threw my cats I'm low not bad tell him my cat my love really can't stand and do through I know that that's true I know that I remember that but you should kill my cat. Ok Monday humanity that's you isn't it the world they think they throw out the money get out anyone know that you are get out 00000000. 0 2 Oh Oh whoa. He Mary. Yes. He's very persuasive doesn't give out when he wants something persuaded me to gamble all my happiness. In a I was a bit of me a bit of me that felt great now I can afford a flat with 2 bedrooms now the gas bill will not just be my pride it Tara. Some nice thing to remember when someone reminds you. I don't want to see him again Oh great thanks a bunch when I use what brain damage is all mine is that how it goes Oh Trish the on call in your all a just will talk to you soon. But he's stable. Just tell me what you think is going to happen it's not really appropriate Come on I could refer you to cancelling Well I've made your lab coat wet so being all over it you can't just come just sit there watching me go through all this writing notes and not give me an opinion. Adoniah me going to be Ok after all this I would have thought so yes come on well this is just look I can only tell you what I think about time your. Objective lay you're a lot better looking enough and I mean by any standard physically you're far more attractive and you're a little bit younger. We have kids kids will be biologically his. 3rd you're already pregnant only. I would have thought you were a far better option for him to choose. I suspect you always were. Thanks I feel really special Now I was actually asking what was likely to happen with his brain is he going to recover will he be able to work on how I really couldn't you have to talk to the consultant while I'll do that then no one's going to arm wrestle for Dani Al they'll be no catfights Sorry to disappoint right now no one wants Dani unless you do. I didn't mean to upset you I just thought by Al. I'll see you tomorrow no I don't want you doing research on Dani anymore but Dani agree Dani isn't legally competent at the moment you said it yourself I'm his wife I want this to stop this is not even that unusual you said it yourself there's a ward full of Dani's out there going away one of them I would really like to try and persuade you you can't goodbye al. I think it's not for me to say but I think you should tell him about the baby. You will have to tell him about the baby. Maybe. Maybe. Actually you. Don't need fell out of love with me that's a fact that happened I knew. That no true. You could still see him I mean of course you can I mean shouldn't worry about me I don't mind if you want to see him. But he's. Might not remember you Ok. I don't know if I can ever but I don't know if I can ever make you happy. The way we were. When he was here she can. Now. Muscle memory yes. Right right back at you that makes you turn out you know oh come on come on yes I'm back in the caves of he'll cut that out yeah yeah yeah back. Do you think that I'm. Pretty big now we're going to have. A. Good. And. Do I know you yes. I count you Donnie Well I know that you're in hospital Yes and I have a head injury you remember what have I forgotten. We 1st met in an office in Soho. I was really angry you were late on delivery and you can't use the design I wanted I was shouting at me he said you like my shoes afterwards he told me that was a line you never met a woman he didn't like to be told she was wearing nice smooth I was wearing hiking boots really really hit me I was just back from walking home today you made me laugh but they got on out that day we swam in the sea to flee Yes Well kind of a taste. Of but you did prefer the movie it was amazing we drove all night we swam into the sounds like a film maybe that's a film you so you know that was real I'm really sorry I still don't know who you are a sick a I'm Trish person who will always be here for you always you can be anyone you like Tony that's who I am what. Lucky me yes I understand I so much fun for you given I haven't a clue who you are that's right Dani so long as you remember you were lucky. Ok. Please. This is l.a. Theatre Works production of Dani's Brain by Ronan Monroe if you've missed anything so far or you'd like to listen to this show online this is it s l t w dot org board check this station's website for more information coming up next a conversation about trauma and memory loss with Dr David Hovda the director of the Brain Injury Research Center at u.c.l.a. This is l.a. Theatre Works. This play is part of l.a. Theatre Works relativity series of science theme plays lead funding for the relativity series is provided by the Alfred p. Sloan Foundation bridging science and the arts in the modern world. Additional support is provided by Audio File magazine find audio book reviews and recommendations including interviews and behind the scenes features with authors and narrators more informations at Audio File magazine dot com. Additional support for l.a. Theatre Works as provided by the National Endowment for the Arts an independent federal agency the n.e.a. Supports arts learning affirms and celebrates America's rich and diverse cultural heritage and extends its work to promote equal access to the arts in every community across America visit arts dot gov to learn more about the n.e.a. L.a. Theatre Works offers plays examining the darker corners of the psyche in Lucy the mother of an artistic teenager begins to see her in a new light she's perfect she's the future she has a disability and you wonder to be normal evolution is making us into something that terrifies you people who can be alone who want to be alone people who aren't ruled by their emotions it's like having a night mother Katherine Helmond and Sharon Gless lock horns over the logistics of a suicide. And you can use my doubt there might out there for a long time I like my towel he asked you if you want to be done and you said you did and you can't use your father's gun either it's mine now to it and you can do it in my house these titles and many more are available on our website go to l.a. t w Dot org This is l.a. Theatre Works. I'm joined now by Dr David Hovda the director of the u.c.l.a. Brain Injury Research Center Dr Who is the past president of the National neuro trauma and international neuro trauma society's Dr Hovda is a 2011 recipient of the strength of the nation award the highest award given to a civilian from the United States Army in recognition of his efforts to help military personnel suffering from mild traumatic brain injury returning from theater he continues to serve as a consultant for professional sporting organizations as well as the Veterans Administration and Department of Defense addressing issues related to traumatic brain injury and recovery of function Dr Hovda welcome to l.a. Theatre Works and thanks for joining us thank you happy to be here Dani the protagonist of our story wakes up in the hospital several weeks after a car accident. If you were to see a patient exhibiting Dani symptoms including prolong memory loss seizures mood swings what kind of treatment or therapy would you recommend and how complete of a recovery would you expect a person to make after let's say 2 months of being in a coma and then waking up they would stay within the intensive care unit and there would be a team of neural intensive us that would be monitoring the brain's activity we'd be measuring them for seizures we would be measuring them for responsiveness can you tell me your name you need tell me how old you or can you tell me where you were 6 months ago you know I can remember the accident. I introduced myself to you yesterday you remember me those types of things. And then once we get to the point to whether we call stable then they get taken out of the intensive care unit and put down into a nother unit in the hospital where they don't need as intensive monitoring but they have pretty close monitoring with a nurse for a couple of weeks and then they get this charge for rehabilitation and rebuild patient as were the $100000000.00 issue is what do you mean by 100 $1000000.00 we can save lives we've saved lives a lot better now than we did 10 years ago we can get people out of the intensive care unit alive a lot better than we did one time ago and that's due to great physicians and great neurosurgeons and great monitoring of the intensive care unit. But you know what patients want is Ok I'm alive when can I do what I did before why can't I see things the same way I saw them before why do I have these problems with emotions why do I All of a sudden have a short temper or vice a versa why am I so lazy and lethargic that I have no interest in my loved one or my children you know why are these things going on and were things confusing to me why do I get seasick all the time why do I have these headaches and that is the challenge in rehabilitation for traumatic brain injury and patience and unfortunately many people begin to give up . On both the patients and the patient's family awfully soon the old data the old way we used to think was that once after 6 months passed that was as far as much as you were going to get back in terms of recovery function say was in a coma for 2 months he would have a reasonable chance of recovery depending on the damage that he had now he also had seizures and acute seizures do happen following traumatic brain injury but usually seizures develop later in life long term after traumatic brain injury the amnesia is a very common problem even following mild traumatic brain injury and that amnesia is actually a kind of a blessing because for some reason Mother Nature takes away your memory of just before and just after the ends insult and so all the horrible things that we end up doing to patients in the sense of carry you know if they don't remember and in fact family members will go through great lengths to take notes and journals to make sure that they can explain to their loved one what happens one has to remember that traumatic brain injury doesn't happen to one individual it happens to the entire family or an entire unit and so everybody wants them to know what they all went through and some of this is helpful for the family as not directly suffered from the traumatic brain injury but it has to endure watching a loved one being in an intensive care unit. In the play we hear al walking Donnie through a series of memory exercises as part of his inpatient recovery how accurate is this depiction and what other exercises are activities are important in helping patients regain shorter or long term memory for example well there is a concept called confabulation which is just putting parts of the memory together and then making a story out of it whether it's true or not true. And it's a psychological term and patients will often do that so there's called retrograde and enter grade amnesia and that's just the difference between before or after the trauma so the distance and time is very short before the injury where they have forgotten the distance after the injury usually is longer. So walking through memory lane and trying to say well you wanted to be a football player you wanted to date Susan are you they would probably remember that going up until about a week before the traumatic brain injury and then things would be gone from that point until probably months after the injury maybe even a year. Recapitulating all the things that happened during that time certainly does make the person say well that's what I was like so I did do that I did like Susan or I did want to become a football player now are you saying that the therapist says Do you remember that you wanted to be a football player or you did want to be a football player right I mean is that the kind of thing you're talking about yeah there's there's 2 ways of doing it if you prompt them. Then I say you know before your head injury you wanted to be a football player or you wanted to be a track star or you wanted to be an actor or you wanted to be a doctor or something like that then the the patient may realize that now they don't now they've understand what they've lost and so now the Guiding is to try to bring back these memories so that you remember what you were like. And I think from a professional point of view my position would be that that's Ok for everybody to try to do that but for the individual for Danny it's much more important to realize what he can look forward to in the future what he can dream about what he wants to be as opposed to what he was going to be because the traumatic brain injury may have taken that away or may have altered it significantly So basically what you're talking about is giving people hope the worst thing you can do to a patient is takes away their hope. The best thing you can do for them is tell them you are different you're not hopelessly different you're just different or you're not less or you're not less of a person or less important or less appreciated unfortunately sometimes families have a difficult time with it so there may be situations where people can't tolerate an individual like that. Dani frequently seems confused about the linear sequence of events or to conflate events from different periods of time how common is this in patients with brain trauma from accidents of this kind and what are some of the other typical symptoms they Meigs it is very common that people would get things out of sequence in terms of the timeline because in our everyday lives Time has a certain perspective we know when it's morning we know and it's night we know when and my mom's birthday was for the remember when our father passed away so of us remember where we were when John f. Kennedy was shot Ok and we were able to put a timeline on it and following traumatic brain injury many times people will be able to say I remember that but I don't remember when and it could be mixed up for a period of time now that may clear over the course of say months 2 years and thing is one of the beautiful things about Mother Nature is that we forget and we tend to forget the bad things and we've tried for some reason remember more of the good things and as Danny becomes more engaged and his new self his new normal if you would put it. Then all the time frame becomes more normal and would become easier for him to do it but with severe traumatic brain injury a lot of therapists in rehab will have individuals keep a journal or a document that they refer to Ok today is Tuesday so today you take the trash out and before you have had an injury you didn't need that you just remembered. So you need an aide Now does that make you any less of an individual or less of a person will a desk make you dependent on something else but you may be able to get around it I use the example of stroke so if you had a stroke on one side of your brain you may not be able to use say your right hand and you always brushed your teeth with your right hand so somebody taught you know how to brush your teeth with your left hand there are some people here in the United States would say that's recovery that's recovery of function in my profession the way there are we look at it that's not recovery that's called masking the deficit so we've just used a different technique in order to get the same response and the brain can do that you know if if we didn't have the capacity to recover from traumatic brain injury teleological or we would have been somebody breakfast we would have never evolved the capability to do this I was going to ask you Are there ever any instances where somebody has a really severe brain injury and actually recover completely Oh yes yes of course can think of a number of times not by what you mean recover completely nobody really knows what that would be usually because this happens in younger people if you don't know what their capacity was going to be at the end you don't know if they were going to beat a tourney where they were going to be a lawyer or they were going to be a sound person for a movie or they were going to be producer or they were going to be an interviewer there are all kinds of different skills that people have so we can't predict what they could have been but in terms of say going back to college getting a degree getting a master's degree being a successful business person or contributing to society or falling in love and raising a family and raising. The quote normal family if there is such a thing as a normal family. That does happen does it happen often no not following Syria traumatic brain injury but it does happen in the play Al conscript and that to help Dani recall the facts of his life. How common is it for doctors to enlist family members for this purpose and what are the ethical considerations in asking family members to take on this responsibility. So I would probably say the answer to the 1st question is rare there are certain things that physicians responsibility is towards the well being of the patient and will advise the family accordingly. Usually our hospitals are so busy there's another patient that has to be taken care of there's usually been a family decision whether they were going to do this or not and there's one thing I've never heard in the intensive care unit I have never heard a family member tell me only do what fiscally responsible to help my loved one and they'll often ask would it help if I talk to them or if I stroke them or if I hold them or fight tell them stories about what they were like and recapitulate their life and what they meant to a saw. I always repeat this I've said this brain injury didn't happen just to Danny it's happened to all of you so if it helps you all to help him recapitulate this this is fine is it going to change Danny's outcome I don't know I hope so my advice has always been whatever you want to do as long as it's not physically hurting this patient and it's not economically do hurting you as a family or this patient then finding and I have been surprised at the number of times I've seen families come in and have group prayers. And just pray for this individual and they're convinced that this is changing the brain and affecting the recovery of function. In the play Al describes the idea of plasticity that the brain reshapes and recovers itself to compensate for changes over time including trauma and damage what are the factors that account for the plasticity of any given person's brain and how does that change throughout a person's life neural plasticity has been studied for over 100 years we used to think that once a connection is broken it's gone forever there was no sprouting or reorganization in the brain and in 1960 s. It was discovered in a rodent model that in fact this does happen so what you're saying a connection gets broken and then it somehow figures out a way to reroute itself yeah there are several different types of reorganization in terms of the axons which are the connections between one cell to another one is called regeneration where as the axons been severed and it just regrows forward what is more common is that there's a intact x. Nearby and it sprouts and it takes over the function of the original x. On that's called x. On a plasticity and does that happen by itself or is that happen as a result of some medical intervention happens by itself we think we have a couple of ideas how we can enhance that one is are called Traffic factors so of an individual is more active and has a good diet. Brain can manufacture more crawfished factors and become more plastic a good example of neural plasticity is if we took our 7 or 8 year old child and drop them off into Paris and pick them up 2 months later you know speaking French. If you drop me off in Paris and 2 months I'm still trying to figure out how to order a glass of wine. And that's because the human brain very young in life is very very plastic and can reorganize very very quickly at a level where the axons change but also at the Senate office with a Senate office actually changes and the Senate has changed in milliseconds so you can always learn new things and a good example is the recognition of faces so you I may have dimensions of my nose and ears and mouth but you will recognize me mediately if you saw me on the street because we've met each other. And you learned that in your synopsis of change because of that it's not because of some miracle medical intervention does cause that to happen does the rehabilitation therapy who is trying to get you to move your hand a certain way or move your legs a certain way does it help in that process we think so we have now entered of science that occurs but we have definitive outcomes that we can help people to walk better help them think better help them learn how to conduct their daily lives and that better this is been absolutely fascinating thank you so much Dr David Huff to join thank you I've been speaking with Dr David have dead the director of the u.c.l.a. Brain Injury Research Center you can hear more of our conversation at our website l a t w dot org. 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Theatre Works relativity series cast features science theme plays about subjects including astronomy physics medical ethics and more lead funding for the relativity series is provided by the Alfred p. Sloan Foundation bridging science and the arts in the modern world more informations at our website l a t w dot org. Francis lamb. Is a fan of your t.v. a Successful restaurant and started out as 2 young women in l.a. Cooking food from around the world. This year's winners of the Julia Child we get their story. Tomorrow afternoon at one here on Cape San Francisco and thanks to everyone all of our member supporters who helped keep strong and independent thanks to Praed Renfro from Berkeley and Laura Jorgenson from San Rafael we appreciate your support The time is 11 o'clock I'm k l w San Francisco. From other mines a weekly program on k. Is produced by other minds in San Francisco presenter of one of America's leading new music festivals 'd. This is Charles executive and artistic director of other minds welcoming you to the broadcast hosted each week by another of our family of. Contemporary music from around the world. Into the past to give a context for today's music. More information about the composer performer. Other mines visit other mines. Hello and welcome to music from other minds I'm Liam urban I'll be your host tonight you just heard a short work by the Chicago based composer Marc Millet's untitled top as to from the end of a Records release smoke performed by new music Detroit next up with a set of jazz standards but into just intonation in a range for string quartet by Ben Johnston Ben Johnston passed away July 21st of this year after a long battle with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's so I thought it be appropriate to take a moment to honor him. Ben Johnson was born in Macon Georgia in 1926 and is best known for his works with extended just intonation Johnson had a lifelong interest in non-equal tunings but it was his studies with the composer Harry Partch that ultimately led him to dedicate the majority of his output to experiments with a ratio based just intonation tunings Johnston Drew influence from serial music rock n roll world music jazz folk music and the resonant sound of the natural world his music is complex and dense to perform yet totally beautiful and unpretentious to the listener though he is now gone from this world his music will undoubtably live .