On not work and is distributed by n.p.r. . I'm Jesse thorn. Walk This Way version of the song by run d.m.c. Was a pretty big deal when it came out it hit number 4 on the Billboard Hot 100 it was the biggest hit run d.m.c. Ever had it's the kind of song music critics on t.v. Will say changed everything for hip hop Jay Smooth is a writer radio d.j. And an internet commentator He's also a huge run d.m.c. Fan but this way maybe not so much that was a song that frustrated me at the time because after years of me rooting for run d.m.c. To really earn that respect from the rest of the world for people to recognize how much we love them they finally got that acclaim from the Wack a song they ever made in my eyes at the time. So I had a lot of mixed feelings about it now I can sorta look back and appreciate more it's balls I. Coming up a special treat for you 3 legendary interviews from our friends at the podcast Keith Rock's Morgan Rhodes all of our way on heat rocks Morgan and all over to talk to artists and thinkers about truly great albums you'll hear Jay Smooth talk more about the run d.m.c. Songs he actually truly loves all over and Morgan will also talk with the singer and songwriter Michelle and Dale cello She'll tell us what it felt like when she heard Prince wanted to sign her on to his record label having your idol listen to your music. Or to have you know people compare you there's no comparison I'm like that. The polish on his shoes like those numbers but to have that happen to you it's life changing it's a thing you want from your parents so to speak or that you didn't have then finally learning read the founder of Living Color is a huge Jimi Hendrix fan that probably won't surprise you I mean he's pretty much 3 slots behind Jimi Hendrix on all those 100 greatest guitarists of all time last he says that one of Jimmy's most important records doll is that it's actually a live album recorded in one night less than a year before Hendrix died that night actually making this extraordinary moment in cultural history happened I mean they did something really unprecedented and for the most part you haven't heard anything quite like it since and then people to the they missed that they missed what was happening it's a heap Brock's spectacular this week it's all coming up on pulls off. Its balls I'm Jesse thorn we're doing some a little different this week you're about to hear 3 of our favorite interviews from heat rocks and one of our sister shows here at my company maximum fun I'm the executive producer of the show helped create it he Brock's is a music podcast about passion it's hosted by all over Wang who's a veteran hip hop writer and d.j. And very successful academic in the field of pop culture and by Morgan Rhodes She's a music supervisor who works very closely with Ava Du Vernay every week he rocks brings you a conversation with aghast about the album that shaped their lives an album that they think is truly great heat rock in other words Morgan and Oliver have talked with people like Cut Chemist Ishmael Butler and powers and many more you can expect deep compelling conversations about r. And b. And soul and. As in hip hop Latin music more all right and Morgan used each record as a jumping off point to talk about its history its context why we care about it so here what I mean in just a minute let's start with Jay Smooth Jay is a d.j. And a writer he founded the longest running hip hop radio show in New York City the Underground Railroad On w b a I He's also been of blogger for many years and commentator who in addition to be Ai can be heard right here on n.p.r. He's also a good friend of mine and I think one of the smartest thinkers in hip hop and American popular culture what he picked for his heat rock raising how I run d.m.c. . I think. I'm just. Jay Smooth Welcome to the rocks thank you so much for having me here I'm so excited to talk I mean this album is and run d.m.c. In general is such a big reason why I'm here doing any of this kind of work and in a larger sense any of us that have a hip hop voice that's such a big reason why we're here so I'm glad to know that in whatever way we can I'm going to know from each of you Do you remember the 1st time you heard this album man the 1st I mean I remember vividly the 1st time I heard Run d.m.c. When I heard sucker MC's. You don't. Think. It was. The right time to. I was sitting on the top bunk of my bunk a bad. And I used to put the bed sheet over my head to just be alone with my little transistor radio and check out whatever songs they were playing on 92 k. To you or via last track came on there was so unlike all of the hip hop that a come before it was just this one militaristic drum beat and the vocals were just so hard and gritty I was sitting there like what is happening right now this is something serious and I just felt like in that moment the whole world or what hip hop could be was opening up for us like this is I feel like I'm joined in a movement right now. With. Morgan How about you what was your 1st encounter with run d.m.c. Well it was 1580 k. Day and the legendary d.j. Greg Mack and that attack for sure and it was it's like that way. I just was like well it is this and I remember thinking damn I don't have any more tapes right but I just remember thinking that like I want to remember these lines and for years after that whenever the issue of cash would come up I'd say money is the key to end this. Kids. In schools I guess before this week you're hearing a taste of sheet rocks are sister shop hosted by all over weighing and Morgan Rhodes there talking with Jay Smooth the founder of New York's longest running hip hop radio show Jay what did you want to talk about run d.m.c. And raising health with us today it. May not be possible for people to understand who weren't around for hip hop's evolution in the eighty's it might not be possible understand how the respected and on recognized hip hop was by the entire mainstream of America before Run d.m.c. And run d.m.c. Articulated from as soon as they came out this mission of we're going to take this style there we created here in New York and heard this generation of black and brown people and we're going to make the entire world take notice and pay attention and respect it and we're going to do it on our terms we're going to take these $2.00 microphones and these turntables and come up on the stage are you going to respect that just as much as you respect any singer that comes up here with the band and I don't think it's possible for people under a certain age to understand what a preposterous claim that was that you would ever be able to do that. Jane I know we're here talking about raising hell but do you think raising hell is their best album I would have to say so I mean I love each of the 1st 3 albums but that's the one where the sound really comes together and interviews that they'll talk about how on the 1st 2 albums they were kind of running through the book or rhymes they already hadn't thrown it together but what raising how they wanted to really sit down and compose things together and did make make a cohesive album project this was sort of a coming of age for me around the time that I was getting into m.t.v. And one thing that made random scenes larger than life is that I saw so much of it in T.V.'s other videos I saw them on so they to me were a band like it was to Brad his wrath and but this but run d.m.c. To me was like a huge band and so I think it's hard for this generation to sort of appreciate the class Ignace of this album and this band because m.t.v. Now is like reality shows and and and good and the Nauset you know. But it but it isn't. It wasn't and we don't rely on it for our musical content in the way that we did then and in a way that allowed acts like run d.m.c. To be larger than life I think probably what you're talking about is the impact of the single Walk This Way which is exactly a cover essential of an Aerosmith song but in a way that you know you don't remember that Aerosmith actually recorded the song right and Jay I'm wondering when you 1st heard in expect we saw the video for walk this way you know what did you think that kind of statement you were trying to make I heard the song before I saw the video I got the cassette tape of the album I'm rockin every track and then I get up to this track walk this way and I am just fluxed I have no understanding of what the hell is supposed to be going on right now. Because. I have never heard a song Walk This Way I've never heard of Aerosmith and I have no idea what's supposed to be going like what is all this weird gravelly singing what part of hip hop is this I hate that record when it came out. And then once I saw the video and I learned Ok Aerosmith there's this band and people use that track as a breakbeats and now they're mixing the 2 styles together once I had and the video does a great job of telling the story and giving you that context once I saw that I understood it a little better I still didn't love it but I you know I grew to appreciate it in a different way and I got to say listening back to the album now I think that is the track as aged bassed and I can sort of that joy more than I enjoy most of the other tracks actually and I'm the one when it came out I didn't get it at all I mean we had to dig into that real quick why do you think that song has outlet has aged the best as you just said it may just be muse. It does based on synthesized drums and sounds it relies on whether those particular drum sounds come to sound dated compared to electric guitar and so on that's a more timeless sound that can have more staying value and probably and nears and the people mastering in the studio have more experience mastering this rock band so they probably did a better job of record again in a way and also I just may be more open minded about rock music that I was when I was 13 years old that could also be a part of it that was a song that frustrated me at the time because after years of me rooting for run d.m.c. To really are in that respect from the rest of the world for people to recognize how much we love them they finally got that acclaim from the Wack a song they ever made at the time. So I had a lot of mixed feelings about it now I can sorta look back and appreciate more and it's balls I'm Jesse for listening to Morgan Rhodes at all over Wang our sister show he rocks interviewing writer and d.j. Jay Smooth I might not have liked the song outside of the video the video really did it for me when I didn't I think I was just too young to know was I was so focused on the hip hop part it wasn't until I got older that I was like wait what what what Aerosmith really talking about and so his lyrics were a little bit on the I listen to it again the reply was I think one of the things that that will always put them in this unique place and about history is the way that they flow together that sort of call and response back and forth I just didn't hear that after that and even when you had people rapping together or groups or happened together it was just this particular brand of magic that I don't think I have heard since. I think. That's right. Mr. Morgan You were mentioning Katie earlier what kind of songs off that album or in heavy rotation on here well the 2 that I heard all the time Walk This Way and Peter Piper and Peter Piper is my job. Right. But that's one of my favorite songs and that's what I heard my question for you I'm from l.a. And so you know rate raised here so that's what I heard on the radio from this album what did you hear what was every single from the album being played out there most of the big singles were played a lot out here Peter Piper was definitely my favorite as well and that's the other one that's also aged really well which might speak to my theory about synthesized dramas b.n. More likely to get stale Peter Piper is Jam Master Jay actually cutting that Bob James record back and forth and therefore I think that that helps the sound Peter Piper was definitely all around it's tricky was all around I mean hit Ron perfect and most of the tracks on the album you would hear around New York pretty often it's kind of hard to imagine an album of this magnitude having an underrated song on it but if there was one would you think is the one that doesn't get enough love going back and listening to it now one that stuck out for me was is it live which has a real go go element mixed into it which I don't think I recognized as such at the time 6. 66 that was one I was nodding my head to pretty heavily when I went back and revisit all those songs you mention a fire but also fire for me is my D.D.'s it's not my favorite piece of pipe. My favorite to my Adidas is a gentle surprise you don't pick that yeah that's a great point I mean my Adidas is not my favorite musically as far as what I would go back to compared to Peter Piper but I think my Adidas is the perfect encapsulation of the arc of run d.m.c. His career. That song was taken by a lot of people as just some sort of materialism and a window into getting their 1st sponsorship deals from Adidas which it did also open the way for but to me that's that song is such a beautiful poetic exploration of the idea of. These humble tools that we developed here in New York City out on the corner have taken us around the world and we've gotten to represent our culture and our generation on stages around the world we went on Live Aid and the poor got paid in and we did it in the same Adidas sneakers that all you all aware and out on the block where we came from were always out there representing y'all and we come back to y'all. That song tells the whole story of what run d.m.c. Had journeyed through and achieve in a way that I love and as I like I don't it doesn't speak to me musically as deeply as some of the others but in terms of the story that it tells I think it's the perfect run d.m.c. Song if you had to describe raising hell in 3 way and that's tough for you writers and intellectual types but I got a poser because we do it all the time if you had to describe raising him 3 ways with those 3 words. Say. Hard I want to say brilliant but I mean brilliant in terms of it being strategic as well as it just being a brilliant work of art like it's it was brilliantly conceived in terms of their calculations of how to hit different notes and connect with different people to places they took each song and then I would say to beautiful I mean this is beautiful for me to go back and revisit and feel the pride that I felt for. These young artists going out and showing the world what my generation of black and brown people and the New Yorkers was contributing to the world and sort of making people feel and understand a bit of the pride that we have been feeling about this hip hop culture for a while. Jay Smooth if you want to hear more from him his radio show Underground Railroad place Friday nights at 10 on New York's w b a I can stream it there as well you can also check out his video commentary series which for my money is absolutely as good as it gets it's called the Ill Doctrine can find more about Jay and his work at and this is going to show you what an Internet music commentary. Hip hop music dot com Yeah he registered that himself it's not like he bought it from some dude that registered it a long time ago he registered that window but he else had hip hop music dot com. Ok anyway we'll hear more from heat rocks back after a short break up next one of my personal favorites a lady that I just love the show in daycare child. For maximum fun dot org And n.p.r. . Host of day 6 a news magazine show that serves up a surprising take on the week one hour of different perspectives on the big stories bring you up to date on news that you might have missed will give you something to think about talk about maybe even to laugh about Day 6 from the c.b.c. In p.r.i. Tomorrow. In San Francisco actually that's not tomorrow that's today at noon right here on Calle w. So you. Saturday nights join me for 4 hours of trance cultural metamorphic beyond category music radio. Classic progressive radio embracing creative jazz hybrid. From all over the world. 91.7 your local public radio Saturdays midnight. I am Kevin Ferguson producer here at maximum fun or support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Member stations and Newman's Own Foundation working to nourish the common good by terminating all profits from Newman's Own Food Products and charitable organizations that seek to make the world a better place more information is available at Newman's Own Foundation dot org And the site Sims Foundation says 9095 supporting advances in science education and the arts towards a better more just society and more information is available at size Sims Foundation dot org This is n.p.r. . It's balls I'm Jesse thorn this week we're giving you a taste of our sister show heat rocks it's a podcast we make here at max fun every week writer all over Wang and music supervisor Morgan Rhodes talked to a guest about the album that made them who they are an album that they think is a true classic And next up is Michelle and. Michelle is a songwriter a singer occasionally a rapper and an incredibly virtuosic bass player one of the greatest in the world she broke through in the 1990 s. As assignee to Madonna's Maverick Records label she was a huge player in the soul and dance scene and still is she also a very accomplished jazz player and if you aren't familiar with her by name you almost certainly heard her duet back in the ninety's with John Mellencamp a cover of Van Morrison's wild and day. Shows a political courting artist who just dropped her 12th album this past April it's called ventriloquism It's a collection of covers It's out now on the indie label naive when Morgan it all over asked her for her rock she picked a stone cold classic Purple Rain by crits. Well there you are. The show and he thinks it's amazing. Some What was your introduction to Prince Let's start there yeah the feeling when I chose this. This recording that it would have to have a lot of backstory. Prince is the reason I wanted to be a musician I remember remember hearing the 4 year recording. One of my mother's good friend's daughter who was at least 10 or 12 years older than me played it for me and it was like nothing I'd ever heard in my life. You're. A teenager when Purple Rain comes on. It was something I went to by myself and the visual element definitely imbedded itself but as it was the going home at night and playing that record over and over again all the different styles that were. Incorporated in the soundtrack and and also the story I guess I had a similar sort of bring that had a lot of people who just spoke to me it made me not feel so alone and I'm sure that's what made it. So important to me your life changer but in hindsight I see it's quite massaged to stick but my. Eyes moment in time you know this beautiful androgenous young man who played the guitar riding around on his purple motorcycle Yeah it was my my James Dean moment that was along those lines we were introduced to the film 1st with the soundtrack 1st well where I lived I could walk down this large hill it would take is like a 34 or 40 minute walk and there was this huge movie theater where it was playing and within that same tiny mall was a Kim Il records so I literally went to see the movie and then after the movie walk to the record store I walked all the way home. And went to my basement and play the record but I guess the movie yes I remember sitting very close it was large and it was it was both dreamy film Idol Experience rock here oh yeah I just I mean my heart beating fast just thinking about it now there's nothing like that but also seeing him walk through the streets like a normal person also was intriguing because he was so outer worldly Yeah you know I have a lot of religious rhetoric but it was like watching the messiah like the person dream about what I was going to change the world for you I know I know it sounds fanatical but that's right on the Prince you know person that's why I said I was that person Yeah yeah my experience with with Purple Rain was myself and a bunch of other students went to go see it and we actually saw it in Berkeley I was in the summer bridge program actually And so we all put our money together to go see it and I just remember being so mesmerized only came out we decided we were going to put together a dance routine a wind cry. And one of my friends is like I'm going pop black. I watched the film and prep for the chat and so I guess as a you seen it I missed so many things that sort of gave me pause last night I was like did more stages throw your body in the dumps did you know that and I don't mean to write but yeah you know I just was like wait Wow And then the whole like. I mean I think just being younger when I 1st I was like damn Apollonius fine and I think that's what started this stuff for me watching the film again I was like is he is he really he's in there with his motorcycle is he making or there were some things that were problematic as was a little bit of the acting but that for me sealed princes larger than life and he became a rock star to me on that but as you see though it's funny I mean only like and my mind now I do see them as 2 separate pieces of work because then I just talk about the record I'm just like let's go was Doves Cry It doesn't have a baseline that's groundbreaking Yeah and for black music at that time. Was like about 5 listen to it just as music I funny but yeah watching it made me I had I cringe just cringe worthy a few things and there are cringe where not just because now this topic about massaging me as a parent but also there's a scene where he's with us with his father and his father's going through all the music and he has all these creations yet he's a broken person really struck me my father is a musician and I think he had a lot of dreams and plans that didn't come to fruition you know and I through me you know I think he saw what he could. Something he missed out in life yeah so that really hit me when I watched it what did you like about Purple Rain what spoke to you. The deconstruction of windows cracked the no base was fascinating to me I thought that was just it was mind blowing I would die for you as I think I drove my family crazy I would just play that one over and over again and the high had pad and that the way he hits accents with it the chords were very like Sunday School Christian harmony I mean they. Just. Lifted me it's balls I'm Jesse for if you're just joining us we are playing a little bit of the maximum fun show heat rocks right now our hosts Morgan Rhodes whose music supervisor and all of her Wang who's an academic and d.j. Are in the studio talking about prints with Michelle and. I saw him at the forum at the time of the church that I was going to own the forum and we were under contract to honor the shows that had been there Prince's tour was the last show that we did the pastor told after Prince passed that Prince was like I want to see I want to meet the people there on the form This is a church I want to meet I want to meet them the pastor is nervous he's telling us you know he's like I'm in there nervous I'm trying to be about my business and some very whatever he says and I'm thinking prince is going to keep me waiting because all these you know rumors about his attitudes and he goes I just hear heels clicking down the he's like I'm at this beautiful house and he says we had a 2 hour conversation about God our conversation about God was so long I didn't think we were going to get the contract because I was like This is the I just want to talk about it I remember being at that show and princes managers and stuff were mad at him because he he decided to sell all the tickets for $20.00 and they were pissed but he wanted everybody to be able to. He had played so many songs that I just was so delirious with hits and at the moment I was thinking What else can he play he did an encore and he said Don't play with me l.a. I have too many edits and I needed like 15 more ahead and so to echo your point I was never disappointed either every concert that I went to of princes the tickets said please wear purple and I wore purple down I was clean as the board to help that those come right dress purple down it was a community of old and young men and women straight and gay all looking at this genius in front of us it was years before we knew we were going to lose him and it was a moment that I thought I don't think there is one album that I can claim Ike I got to know Prince I got to know Prince over that his entire career although some people would argue that Purple Rain is the most personal album because we see more of himself I think you saw I think Sprint's slipped himself in many different places one of the songs that doesn't get mentioned a lot on this album and I don't know why because it's a jam Ok And as a hit rock is computer blow right whereas my love life. I mean the lady. Yeah yeah and then I guess at the 2 minute mark he just doesn't change up on me when I just wasn't expecting it to go in that direction. Oh. That's it right thing. That is agenda and in the movie everyone starts dancing on the one everyone's going to decide that's just and it's as sure mental I do I like I like that I had a lot and had a lot of issue mental thing going do you have a fire truck officer no I was a I would die for you I mean it's lame but that was my one What is it about just the way it makes me feel and I you know I mean I've been this is guy was Asian and I just guess I should be afraid I'm about you know all of believe or I am I am I believe there's something I cannot see that is greater than myself. And there's Yeah there's something in there and adventure he tells us that's what it was what he was writing about but I'm I've feel that from the beginning from the 1st time I ever heard it from the beginning to the end of that song is just like he's trying to to me I feel he's just trying to remind me like there is something bigger than you and that life is about sacrifice not necessarily like these mythical like the blood of the lamb or the not even the Jesus thing but like you must sacrifice something and to know a love like that is just beyond your. You conception but I'm trying to help you feel that song audibly sonically I want you to know that you know that about life you know I'm just a thorn You're listening to bowls I this week selections from heat rocks our sister show here a maximum fun dot org all over weighing and Morgan roads are talking with the great singer songwriter Michelle and Dale cello about Prince's Purple Rain if I can come back to the song Purple Rain that 1st time that you sat down you you had your record in the basement with me toward Would you think the song. Or do you want to now have a movie I just was like yeah he wanted to do his thing and it was sad and you lose people and people don't have love you can't trust people I. Was. Not. We ask I guess this is a tough one till I go and win and as my friend. And I ask him what we you know we ask our guests to describe the album that they chose and 3 wides and if you had to describe Purple Rain in 3 words what would they be. This man's best. In the long sad cause I'm just that hit me it made me think of that we don't have them anymore my favorite album is as always going to be around the world and day but when I listen to Purple rain this morning and on the way over here I thought maybe I've got to rethink that because this one this one hit me in a different way than around the world and the day around the woman is complicated but this gene is genius but this one to me is go straight to the heart of the prince or the kid whichever I think but there are parts of the kid and prints that were completely and it's such a the end of it is such a triumph for Wendy and Lisa who throughout the movie are saying please listen to this record yeah this record and it and so well I mean and of and the best you know is subjective. But I mean it's no way for me the thing that moves me the most the so so many other songs but I feel like he would even want you to know like this is you need escape be be killed it. Killed him to say something and the times I met him that was important look what I've done and like I think either of us you've actually had the opportunity to interact with Prince What was it like actually meeting him and what was it from those encounters that you took away. I think I think the moment I met him I like lost my ability to prove to Bree. But then I also got to see that he was just a human being Yeah that was hard I'm a complicated human being and I'm also a very complicated female human being and I think I was a female him being he hadn't really encountered often and also I'm trying to be the best at everything I do I have a very large spirit. And you know and if you don't know me well that spirit can be aggressive come across aggressive and so like I said we were 2 people you know that had a very big person. So but when I came to l.a. I had a chance to be on his label I want to brothers having your idol listen to your music or to have you know people compare you there is no comparison I'm like. The polish on issue like there's no barriers but to have that happen to you it's life changing it's a thing you want from your parents so to speak or that you didn't have and that's just like I said life changing. And also. We're in a rear time in history where we're not the dinosaurs like we can see the meteor coming. And you see you have people like Prince and you have all these other great human beings who have achieved. So much yet something in them. There are lessons in these people and I hope that the people that come after them will heed those lessons because I'm starting to. Thank you for sharing that I remember I very much appreciate that. Michel and talking with all of our Wang and Morgan Rhodes of the max fun podcast heat rocks Let's take a listen to a song off of Michelle's latest record ventriloquism this one is a cover of the t.l.c. Classic waterfalls. Snow snow. Snow but you chose to stay. Even more balls I still to come when we come back from a quick break guitar legend Vernon Reed of Living Color talks about guitar legend Jimi Hendrix Stay with us it's balls for maximum fun dot org And n.p.r. . Tangled web we 1st practice to deceive. The dot classical for the next nap judgment on the cover subterfuge snap judgment movies of the cinema silent storytelling be. Not just that snap judgment coming your way next at 11 o'clock right here on k l w c. Francisco. This is Peter Thompson inviting you to join me every Saturday evening with our signal that shows regular features include the magic presentations of music from our local community lightly ourselves all the varieties of grass and old time music from all arrows calendar of upcoming events often musical reviews and of course much much more that's bluegrass signaled Saturday at 6 30 pm right here on Calle w. San Francisco. It's from n.p.r. Member stations and the Kauffman Foundation working together with communities in education and entrepreneurship to create uncommon solutions and empower people to shape their lives and be more successful more information online at Kaufman or and the n.p.r. Wine club where members receive n.p.r. Inspired wines like Weekend Edition Cabernet and Wait Wait Don't Tell Me Merlot available to adults 21 Years or Older learn more at n.p.r. Wine Club dot org slash Radio this is n.p.r. . Welcome back to Bill's I'm Jesse thorn we're changing things up on the show this week we're playing some of my favorite interviews from our sister show heat rocks heat rocks is a show about the music that inspires us every week Morgan Rhodes who is a music supervisor who works extensively with Ava Du Vernay and music writer and d.j. And academic Oliver Wang talked with somebody about their sheet rock the album that was so good so powerful so amazing that it changed their life forever we're going to wrap up this episode with Vernon Reid he's one of the founders of living color the iconic Shondra defying rock band recorded the hit cult of personality in 1980. 6. The. As you would imagine from a guitar virtuous or like a Vernon he's a fan of classic rock and it probably wouldn't surprise you to know when he was asked to pick his heat rock he picked an album by Jimi Hendrix band of gypsies a live album released just a few months before Hendrix stud but to hear Vernon tell it this is more than a dope out of them it's also documentation of a night that changed everything in music. Vernon thank you for joining us here on the rocks Hi Amy It's my pleasure thank you for asking me. Let's start with this how did Jimi Hendrix enter your life Ok so I think I saw Jimi Hendrix on The Dick Cavett Show and he was wearing like a blue kimono thing and and. At that time any time a black person was on t.v. It was an event he was so different than every other black person I saw on t.v. And this was after the Woodstock thing because he had done the Star-Spangled Banner and it was really really controversial it was one of those it was it was one of the alternative I think it's almost like the beginning of the alternative versions that were done. You know because after that Jose Feliciano did a different version of it Marvin Gaye did a version of it and each interpretation people were kind of outraged you know all those interpretations are really beautiful obviously data for now but at the time that they happened people were up in arms and and and Jimi on The Dick Cavett Show you know Jim it was sort of he seemed very surprised that there was even a controversy you mention the national anthem and talk about playing it in any unorthodox way immediately get a guaranteed percentage of hate mail from going to say how does their unorthodox and it's not enough for them. It isn't and they're known about it was beautiful where he was coming from and what people projected on to him were 2 very different things I mean he was a veteran This man was in 101st Airborne So when you write your nasty letters and you know who's a paratrooper I mean that's how he met Billy Cox So he was like oh I just I just loved the melody I thought it was beautiful he t. Did it from the standpoint of being patriotic. Given that band of gypsies as we're as we've been talking about was your introduction to Hendrix and given where he was in that particular moment in his career how do you think it left or shaped your impression of who Hendrix was what he was capable of what his creativity was like except for a machine gun my guy you know machine gun because the war was still going on and it was kind of like is the Vietnam War ever going to end you know I mean you know you get scared like that when you're a kid you know I remember really thinking like was this war going to go on long enough for me to get drafted it was was really scary it was really scary thing to be a kid at that time. In machine gun there's a a point where he's playing with the springs and he's playing a strata cast a guitar and part of the mechanism of the guitar the whole you know is there's a day of the springs you know there's a tremolo on there's a. Call a 20 bar the tremolo on was attached to the bridges allows him to do those kind of pitch dive bombs those kind of swooping sounds wrong. Partly that's Jimi manipulating the tremolo arm with a 20 bar and there's a mechanism in the back of the guitar that allows that to happen and they springs there either 2 or 3 springs in the back of the guitar so the guitar that volume is 100 percent live anything you do with a guitar is going to come through the amplifier and at one point he starts playing with the springs in the back of the guitar and it sounds like a clock. And . It sounds like it sounds like this is the final hour it sounds. It sounds apocalyptic and the whole the whole thing a machine gun the way he uses various forms of vibe Rado the way he's able to get by bridle to to to fade into feedback the ways he does something 100 percent interactive in any and all sounds coming out of the instrument I used to musical effect you're listening to balls I'm Jesse for this week we're giving you a taste of the max fun podcast heat rocks music show hosted by 2 very brilliant musical minds music supervisor and know everything about music genius Morgan Rhodes and the writer d.j. And academic Oliver Wang right now they're talking with Vernon Reid one of the founders of the band Living Color about one of his all time favorite records band of gypsies by Jimi Hendrix obviously you in the band are no strangers to taping live albums from a musician's point of view do you go into taping the live album similarly or differently than if you were doing a studio project. Well you know there's live is live this live in this job I mean you know I mean. Again talk about stage managing you know the thing about the band of gypsies is really remarkable because live albums you know people you go you'd go for your best take in fact that was their 2nd set they did a 1st set and legend you know and the whole legend of it is that. I wasn't very good yet well it was it wasn't what the 2nd set was. You know what I mean and they proceeded to make turn around and make history and if you listen back machine gun is great in the 1st set but it's not the machine gun that we know it's it's a very different thing the way the songs unfold Billy Cox deserves special mention Billy Cox of the bassist on this bill though thought the whole thing wouldn't work the dynamics between big kid Jimi Hendrix you know and Buddy Miles but he mows a snare drum but he must snare drum as a kid is a character it's a unity. And Billy Cox is is not just holding it together but he's he's holding it down but he's adding these little flourishes and it's so meaty the sound of his bass is so crucial to the whole to the whole thing working. It's remarkable thing but the other thing too it's just happening in real time even bits like the end of power of soul there's like a thing where we're ending it here no we're ending here know we're ending it here it's it's happening in real time you can hear. The way this record swings and it's not jazz like the song Who knows. Just Lopes and swings and does the swaying in you know just incredibly groovy rhythm throughout it and that's a function of Buddy mas is just incredible pocket but it's also the way. Billy Cox just swings is in there you know. You Tube. And actually even Jimmy's guitar he plays he's actually play some slight peeling the layers of an onion you know he actually placed 3 guitar solos in who knows where the 1st one is a relatively clean bluesy solo then there's a super intense Wah-Wah. It's really magical what happened. Between these 3 people but it's almost like they're for it like it was listening to it and it's like oh there's this you know the way Billy's playing the way Billy is holding it down but also the melodic the way buddy's snare is like is commenting the way but he functions as almost like a Greek chorus of one voice playing off of what Jimmy saying the call of response within them. It's interesting too because in rereading the original reviews of both the performances as well as the album that came out in 1970 this was not a particularly well received LP at the time I think the New York Times review called the album mediocre and in particular a lot of reviewers lasered in on Buddy Miles not for his drum work necessarily but for his singing and just didn't like how much vocal time that he got on this album if it seems like Miles was really that the scapegoat in some ways in some of the more middling reviews of the album received well you know this is the thing about things that are really innovative and very different the people don't get it people miss amazing things all the time very erudite people very smart people miss stuff all the time I mean. When have you heard 2 vocalists of equal stature equal strengths playing off of each other in such a context I can't think where this where this also incendiary instrumental ism happened. That night actually making this extraordinary moment in cultural history happened I mean they did something really unprecedented and for the most part you haven't heard anything quite like it since and people don't think they missed it they missed what was happening before we wrap things up here this is one of those I know impossible questions to answer because it's a counterfactual but you know Hendrix obviously died far far before his time. If he had lived let's say at least another 2030 years what directions do you imagine he might have gone in towards in the 1970 s. Or even you know into the 1980 s. I would say this is this is a kind of. Philip k. Dick Ian. Thought I mean you know when I speculate about a Jimmy and a live one Jimi Hendrix absolutely would have made a record with Miles Davis he would have would have made a regular Miles Davis and maybe a record Miles Davis along with Russell Roland Kirk I think that you know he would have moved to Jamaica and hung out with Bob Marley and grown dreadlocks. I think that he would have done a duet record with Robert Fripp and explored tape loops I think that he would have gotten together with Jack Bruce and done something with Call of play I think that he would have become a Scientologist I think he would have become a Buddhist I think he would have. Had a chance encounter with Philip Glass I think that. Jimi Hendrix would have. Moved to Germany and had a bunch of kids and I think he would have. And I think he would have went back to the he would have went to the crossroads of Highway 61 and just to see what would have happened if you went that's what I think last question bringing this back to Brant band of gypsies and if you had to describe the album in 3 words what with those 3 words being crucial incendiary. Phenomena. There it is. Burning re his band Living Color is still going strong they dropped an album last year they've got a few festival dates lined up over the summer head on over to the bull's eye page at maximum fun dot org for more information on that. That's all for this week's I hope you enjoyed it I am so so proud of our work on heat rocks it is incredibly insightful podcast with 2 brilliant hosts and many many many brilliant gas talking about some of the greatest albums of all time I really loved for example Brother Ali talking about Songs In The Key Of Life Stevie Wonder I honestly can't tell you how proud I am of the show I think it is so insightful and moving and funny and in gauging and I really hope that you will go and subscribe to it you can find it in wherever you listen to podcasts it's really rich anyway. Recorded a maximum fun or World Headquarters overlooking MacArthur Park in beautiful Los Angeles California where this week one of those mylar party balloons floated all the way up to our 9th floor office window it said welcome home and so we have decided to go ahead and write that sequel to American Beauty and think about something I learned from American Beauty you know there's a lot of darkness going on behind those white picket fences the show is produced by speaking into microphones our producers Kevin Ferguson he had help from Casey O'Brien our production fellows for maximum fun dot org. And Shana de Loria thanks to Christian Duenas and Carol Hart the producer and task producer of heat rocks our senior producer is Laura Swisher all are interested. If you'd like to hear any of our past. 15 years worth of interviews. Interviews share everything you can also look up. On You Tube. I guess that's about it. Is a production of on got bored and. 1.7 w. . Speaks we ask you a question each week and then we share the answers we receive Here's this week's question Should California be split into 3 states it could be a proposition you vote on in November so let's hear what you think. 33 speak that's 18337732 make your voice heard. Cisco weather forecast for today mostly sunny with 66 warmer in the east bay with a high of 71 tomorrow cloudy. With a high 66 it's 11 o'clock. And a cretin. But that's me. But today a snap judgment. Of people with ice cold blood. That doesn't probably present. Such a view. Amazing stories from deep under cover get ready. Now judgment storytelling with the big right after this break. Day 2 for. Hello I'm Debbie Ross with the B.B.C.'s the Israeli military has launched a wave of air strikes against dozens of militant targets in the Gaza Strip in retaliation for mortar and rocket fire into Israel from the Palestinian territory is one of the most wide ranging operations there since the war of 2014 Tom Bateman is in Jerusalem Israeli fighter jets bombed a high rise building in the Shati refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip Israel said the building was a training facility for the militant group Hamas Israel said the wave of a strike on Saturday was in response to what he called terror acts at the perimeter fence on Friday and rocket and mortar fire from Gaza health officials in Gaza City said 2 Palestinian teenagers were killed in the as drugs describing them as passes by to a building that was targeted paramedics in the southern Israeli town of steroid said 3 civilians were wounded from shrapnel after a rocket hit a house dozens of Nicaraguan students have been a schoolteacher from a church where they had taken sanctuary from the security forces and government supporters the intervention was led by the archbishop of Managua America's editor can disappear at reports the Roman Catholic Church in Nicaragua has on several occasions had to come to the rescue of protesters who've taken sanctuary in churches each siege in the escalating anti-government protests has followed a similar pattern and the church is surrounded by police and hooded armed government supporters and the demonstrators subjected to a hail of life bullets 2 young men died in the latest c.