A.l.w. Is weekly space for the best and Public Radio podcast storytelling I'm your host. 'd it was small red and had the word diary and Boston gold ink on the cover and I wrote in it every day for the entirety of 1905 my entries mostly just recounted what I did that day school Burger King with my grandma blowing my allowance of thrift I still have it and whenever I peek inside a little disappointed and wish I would have kept count of my feelings more what did 10 year old me dream about what made me depressed Well luckily because I didn't do that I am excluded from and Barris ing myself on the podcast and story telling event mortified 'd mortified soul exists to bring the stories of your emotional diaries to the stage and in each event presenters read 'd verbatim the good the bad . RINGBACK Pretty hilarious entries from their personal teenage diaries in one of their most recent episodes of the Mortified pod cast share stories that give the holidays some super fierce side I. Just a heads up that this segment contains the language the kind that a teenager would use to describe how much they hate the holidays we've bleeped most of it though so if you find that sort of talk hilarious this is a podcast for you and if you don't have something more wholesome starting around the 15 minute mark. Dear diary 6th grade February 14th 1901 I am really depressed. Mom you can't. Tell you Cooper age 141101 pm Tuesday December 7th 199910 o 2 pm 5th night of Hanukkah. Levels at choir practice so it was just dad and I we exchanged Hanukkah presents I gave him an Oriental cooking book and he gave me an American sign language dictionary and CD-Rom dictionary. Most kids will tell you it's pretty rare to get a gift on the 5th night of Hanukkah that can top all other nights but that was the case for tell you Cooper. The kind of gift that almost made her forget about her cool new dictionary. Then the phone ring here was our conversation. I tell you it's deeper I have something to tell you that I have no idea how you'll react long cause I don't know what to say next because I never thought I'd get this far. Oh well are you going to ask me out. Now that you mention it how about it. I am so happy p.s. I can't believe I have a boyfriend T.V.'s I love sign language. T.V.'s I'm not saying they will. Be on again and it will be when it is indeed and. Unfortunately most Hanukkah nights and Christmas mornings don't end up feeling like a scene straight out of love actually next to. The skunk at Chatham House but yes. And at some point her adolescence getting into the holiday spirit becomes that much harder you're in Mr. From pure x. And radio topia this is the Mortified podcast I'm Neal and today just in time for the holidays we present tales of kids who face that life altering question Do I still believe in Christmas. God and. This was a lie but the. First stop is the story of a real life Grinch whose bitterness of Christmas rivals that of Dr Seuss's original creation Yup there's new trouble in Whoville and it's a depressed teenager. Good evening. My name is Jimmy if there is a theme song for my teenage years it would have to be the same if Heaven knows I'm Mr Boldero. By the age of 16 I'd convinced myself that I'd cemented my status as the world's I'm luckiest person my parents were divorced I didn't feel like I fit in at school. Well as presidential election didn't even go my way. And I was 100 percent in the closet I truly wanted to be happy but I had no idea how to get there so I coped in the only way I knew how to write bitching about everything constant all the time. And then along comes the season to be jolly the most wonderful time of the year and that only exacerbated the situation and multiplied Miami so imagine I was like a cross between Charlie Brown Evan easer Scrooge and the Grinch. And the following diary entries were like my twisted holiday special. The year was 1988 Welcome to a very Jimmy Rudolph The Christmas. November 8th. In minus 3 months George Bush will be president. Come January j. Jan 4th Quayle will be vice president. But I don't want to talk about. Stead why don't I depress myself by talking about school yes well that pleasant day today was in 6th period masochist that I be I insisted on delivering papers to Mr Baylor's chemistry class were Rob yelled out in front of everyone that I liked Duran Duran's new album. Later Karen told me she can always smell me coming because of my drug carnal war. At least the weather was 10 times better yesterday's rain ended up tweaking my hair flat. Remember nights today was real neat I wore all black including socks and my your Rhythmix revenge badge to show how I felt about Bush's election. Scott told me I was dressed good for a funeral. I told him it was due to the death of a country. Never 14. I just laughed at my horoscope said emotional serenity it's essential. That. I swear I'm so pissed in newspaper I walked into class only to hear Travis being all the time later I told him that he always makes fun of my list I told Nick he never listens to me I told Matt he generally brings me down. And then Mr Dyce your cut in and said and I hate your guts. Yes I see its point but I still get no respect. Over 24th Thanksgiving with sort of a thankful for 4 years of Bush is president. And ever increasing social life I give up. Never 26 when I went to the bathroom I couldn't help noticing how good my hair looks so I've decided if my hair looks good in the Morning Joe. We're celebrating my birthday too early because of my dad and my stepmother's trip to Mexico. They've been hounding me about what to get me as for cake light on the white frosting with Barry filling featuring a winter motif will suffice. As Rice cream half of it no doubt about it. As for gifts I need calendars cologne gifts sets maybe a Walkman maybe some batteries for the maybe Walkman maybe a couple dictionaries maybe some mechanical pencils I don't know. So as the weather got colder and the Christmas decorations started to go up my misery continued but then magically a few weeks before Christmas things actually started to improve the only problem was that despite all the little Christmas miracles happening around me all I thought were lumps of coal. November 29th. I realize that December is just around the corner that means gifts on the 13th gifts on the 25th cation I earned it. In 1st period I let my Christmas spirit officially begin by using my annoying Jingle Bells pencil. December 3rd. Shouldn't today have gone better I mean today was a Saturday so no school lots of sleep right I mean today was the day that dad celebrated my birthday early thoughts of presents Right right but I still feel incredibly suicidal at the moment after I suddenly got the great idea to take a walk I hurriedly ate cake and ice cream and open my presents Walkman batteries headphones card album maroon sweatshirt a very special Christmas was playing on my walkman and Christmas decorations were all around so I felt great then I went to 711 it took a wrong turn on my way home and got honked at by 4 cars. When I got home I noticed frost all over the place I probably chose the coldest night since last winter for 3 and a half hour walk. I just looked in the mirror and I must admit I look pretty steadily . And I didn't run into one person I know. December 7th at lunch I had to sell Christmas messages for the newspaper it was the lame I want to talk about it Q. December 10th. Mom had me help her make eggnog cake and put up the tiny Christmas tree that my stepfather got just for my bedroom. I don't use the best Christmas lights we have and I put up all my ornaments it looks terrific. December 16th. Today was one of those days he was outcome did not nearly match extend his if you know what I mean. Sure sure sure before school Carol gave me a great card and Scott gave me a bumper sticker and a 2 and a half foot candy cane but believe yeah yeah yeah toy and Martha said hi to me in the hall plus Greg sat down next to Andy and said Did you see the review of Morrissey in the paper and he told great that I wrote it Greg said all right but please tonight mom grounded me from doing anything with anybody because of my attitude. Did she. Want to call her psychos from now on. December 22nd. I don't know. I should feel good at the moment right could have fooled me I don't know goddamn And once again because nobody called me up today I feel like period I began getting incessant nagging thoughts about how ungrateful everyone was slashing is to me I even wrote it out of my peak of anger so in the midst of all this who happens by a man with a Christmas present Oh ho ho he said What are you doing here I asked making my Christmas rounds. Wonders never cease. And then finally Christmas Day rolls around. Christmas lights were twinkling cookies were faking fresh in the oven and I was still complaining. December 25th I woke up at 6 am to listen to American Top 40 only to have mom yell at me for waking up you really interest is more than. Whatever. I put on my new bike tires which Dad brought over last night then in my white jeans I decided to take a ride to plaid pantry and I spilled right in front of Betsy Simkins house great so clearly it was not shaping up to be a happy holiday right but there still was a silver lining to my dark cloud presence so what you're about to hear are believe it or not gifts that I was actually thrilled to receive. Back to the truck has everything I received 2 can dream. Too mechanical pencil lead. Regular envelopes business and low. Regard to our spray to car no argue over it off cologne groom cologne stamps stapler scotch tape. The Traveling Wilburys volume one. Rest in Peace Tom Petty. Depeche Mode t. Shirt. Turbo Blaster key chain and Gumby Santa. So all I wanted for Christmas was a little respect but hey at least I got my scotch tape Thank you God. Well Jimmy was busy Grinch ing it up other kids to do everything they could to keep the Christmas spirit alive I hardly believed in that 110 per cent in some ways Robert King its childhood was like a lot of kids he loved Christmas did love Santa but another were his his childhood was unique I was a premium I wasn't an incubator and I received way too much oxygen as opposed to not and now Fox too much oxygen caused me to be legally blind and I also have the serval palsy so that made me grow up with a feature and event and it was done or going up with disability has taught me to believe in the seeming play in post all things I think it's incredibly in paired to day kids learn how to utilize their. Nation to look at things differently that belief in the impossible is something that drove Robert as a kid especially when it came to St Nick one time when I went to the mall my grand mother took me to see Santa Claus ice sat on said to his lap and they said I have some questions for you about the North Pole and every I thought maybe he actually really is real and no. But he has figured out the truth yet there's a grantor Titian of kids trying to uncover the truth does Santa exist and how can kids like Robert prove it. By fans of the 1947 classic Miracle on 34th Street understand this need to believe all too well and it transcends generations as evidenced by its remake in 1904 just a crinkled whole thing and very funny and perfectly round. So it'll come as no surprise that when Robert out of the Simon 3rd grade to write a letter to the North Pole he took it serious I had a mistreated small who just said how does he think. It is a choose the elves he chooses how does he function. Normally this is when we cut to Robert reading aloud his letter on stage however for various reasons Robert requested that someone else to the honors and while we typically ask our participants to mortify themselves we gladly made this exception so who better to read aloud Roberts' letter to Santa than someone who's actually worked with Santa. Has the pill and the star of 990 four's Miracle on 34th Street Hi I'm Mara Wilson Yup a little girl who went to court for Kris Kringle who in full disclosure did not grow up believing in St Nick my mom brought me a script and she said it's a movie called Miracle on 34th Street it's a remake of an old movie I said What is it about because I had never seen it and she said well it's about a little girl who doesn't believe in Santa Claus and I said oh she Jewish like us my mom said I look into that. And now Robert King It's letter to Santa in 3rd grade Dear Santa Mrs Amanda told us to write to you so I am writing to you Tyler says that you don't exist but how can someone not exist if everyone tells the same story about you every year besides if you didn't exist I'd read it in the news or watching on t.v. So I think he doesn't know what he's talking about besides reading rainbow tells your story I tell it on t.v. If its fake does not cost money I have a weird request I know that you operate a very popular business in the North Pole but have you ever thought about expanding your business instead of just selling toys to kids you could start doing clothes and books and cookies and stuff this letter is incredibly in Bear sing to me for 2 reasons The 1st is that I was trying to. Prove a business in the not Paul that doesn't exist I also. Relies on I was. Credibly opinionated as a kid think about it Santa I like audio books but Tyler doesn't like audio books it's wrong to force him to think of a toy he may or may not want besides I can't see well anyway so why not get me something I can hear you've been selling toys to my house for years but can I tell you a secret I can't see well so I step on them or break them if you saw other things to other kids that are not toys they get to use their product longer and they don't need to write to you next year do you see how that makes sense I think that if you try my idea maybe sit down in your office with your elves and talk it over you all can make a new and improved shop Now me I've been extra good so I want cookies I also want that stuffed wishbone dog I never got I think you miss place that file in your office because I've been extra good this year it's logical that I get extra stuff if I understand your business correctly so I grew up very interested in writing I knew that it was a way for me to communicate the and I knew it was a way for me to tackle I use each disability I want to Play Station game I want cookies and I want that wishbone dog seriously he's so cute please Santa I will love him forever and ever I hope you like my idea I thought about it for many days consider it please if you do decide to adopt my new business can you write to your Mrs Amanda you have my address and you know where my school is so let me know I have a question why do you never write back Robert can get. I asked him why he never wrote me back I thought that it was a little rude. I wanted to genuinely know why year after year after year if you don't have the common courtesy to write back if I could ask Santa for anything right now I like a chance to just chill and hang out Oh and of course to finally have an x. Collusive interview for a news paper. As always all the childhood writings heard in today's episode shared with the relishing new exaggerating just God given awkwardness. To share the same post on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or visit get mortified dot com to learn about mortified stage shows books films and beyond that participate and who knows maybe you'll appear on a future episode of the series and check out other Christmas inspired mortified tales by listening to episode a tuner gift missed or Episode 44 Dear Santa want to head back to the Mortified podcast as a proud member of radio topia empirics and if your company would like to support a podcast in the mail sponsored radio took it out of the. Podcast production team for this episode includes have the Dion to get up there again myself you'll catch your grandest and Pooja Bhatt story produced these for the stage music by Gordon bash Alex for Adam Smith the angel Zoe Rose Palatino and snakes and it's neat special thanks to our Wilson additional banks the ads are for dividing the ed serving platform Lance rubber Sutiyoso and all the dedicated mortified live producers whose work make the stage show possible until next time they remind you that we are freaks we are fragile and we all survived even if we never did get swept up in the spirit of Christmas. And. Momo St. In the Us does call me in the rain and on the sons of clothes in the winter has a new me. And I'm going to them a sense of the way. All over the. You're tuned to the spot on 91.7 k l w featuring the best bits and bobs from podcasts and independent radio producers I'm Ashley and Crick bomb. Boyd Applegate's job is driving big rig trucks but his passion is Santa Claus each Christmas boy who dresses up as a real beard Santa he does it for love not money at Story Corps Boyd told his sister Rhonda Dixon how it all started. Santa Claus was a byproduct of truck driving because I drive a truck I can have a beard that's a little bit longer than most people and when the early November my head was called and I didn't have a hat so I stopped at a Wal-Mart they had a wreck of Santa hats right inside the door and I picked one off and I put it on my head and a little 4 year old boy that was walking by with his mother yanked her to a stop and said look it's sad and I have not spent Christmas Eve or Christmas Day at home with my family for the last 18 years I'm usually in a rented red convertible and I do under the tree gift deliveries that are designed for children to wake up and catch me in the middle of the process what are some of your favorite moments doing Santa Claus over the years one young lady wanted me to be her new stuff father of one young lady wanted me to provide her maid I've gone down to Do you want to Mexico and done it where I don't speak the language in fact one year when I was coming back this young man comes running up to the side of the car and when he saw me his eyes opened and his jaw drop and I gave him a really jolly hole hole hole and I handed him this gift and as I went to cross the border the border guard had seen me handing something and he looked at me and he said You really must be Santa and tonight I can't possibly stuff you still go ahead . As a Santa Clause one of the big mistakes you can make is to not believe yourself when I walk out of the house in my suit I cease being me and I absolutely am Santa and no matter whether it's a skeptical teenager or somebody that wants to yank on my beard it doesn't matter what matters the most to me is I believe and Santa Claus is truly the most important thing in my life. That was Boyd Applegate the. King with his sister Rhonda Dixon with Story Corps in 2012 you can hear the backlog of story for interviews at Story Corps dot org or subscribe to the Story Corps podcast this holiday season you can also record your loved ones with the Story Corps app for smartphones and tablets to. The. That's all we have for you today on the spot you can find more episodes of our show . Send your recommendation a podcast or radio producers we should feature in an e-mail to the spot. I'm Ashley and Craig and thanks so much for listening also a very merry holiday season. To you and yours to tune in next week for another episode only on 91.7. Looking for something to. This weekend join me Thursdays for sights and sounds every week I talk to some of the bay's most fascinating artists to hear their picks for what's going down and what's good in the Bay Area art scene when I saw him I was like oh I can be a freak and that is how you do it if you don't know what record auctions is where the it's bad he describes it as a performance ritual come to life through Appin after a futurist full body. How did not want to go to get a disc that sights and sounds check us out every Thursday during Morning Edition and All Things Considered for online all the time. Warner. Says $9.00 k.t. L.w. Skills local public radio online k.l. The guts to change the time little and 3. How do you take a wolf a goat a cabbage wanted to time across a river if the did Wolf will eat the goat and the goat will eat the cabbage it's a riddle let's older than you might think 1st posed by an Englishman in the 9th century he was known as the most learned man in Europe and he thought math can be fun I'm Philip Ball and I'll be telling you the tell of Alcuin of York joining me for discovery coming up next off to the b.b.c. World Service news b.b.c. News with me on your own as in his 1st interview since leaving the Us presidency Barack Obama has issued a warning about the irresponsible use of social media Mr Obama told the b.b.c. Such actions were distorting people's on the standing of complex is used and spreading misinformation Mr Obama did not mention Donald Trump his successor by name but he emphasized that people in positions of leadership should exercise current when posting messages Barack Obama made the remarks in conversation with Britain's Prince Harry. Syrian volunteers have evacuated the 1st critically ill patients from a rebel held suburb near Damascus aid groups at urged President Asad to allow treatment for dozens of Agence cases including 7 children with cancer South Korea's foreign minister Cancun has criticized a 2 year old deal between sold and Tokyo on the South Korean women forced to back in Japanese military brothels during the 2nd World War They were known in Japan as comfort women is can said the $9000000.00 compensation agreement reached in 2015 had failed to take into account the views of victims 2 journalists from the Reuters news agency have been visited by their families and friends for the fast time since they were arrested in me and 2 weeks ago the pair who are charged with illegally obtaining information had their detention extended for another 14 days they had been reporting on by means military actions against range of Muslims in reckoning state this is Bream court of Japan has upheld a lower court's acquittal of a woman who had been accused of involvement in an attack by a doomsday cult in the country 9095 now all coked coochie had been charged with assists assisting attempted matter 99 to 5 by transporting bomb making materials of the arms should weak who called it sent a possible bomb to an office of the Tokyo government seriously wounding an employee . Hello and welcome to discovery from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Philip Ball and on today's science story the tale of an Englishman who told this puzzle. It's the early Middle Ages and you're off to market. You're selling a wolf a goat and a bunch of cabbages the road is rough and dangerous and you've had to keep a constant diet to make sure the wolf doesn't eat again have a goat doesn't gobble the cabbages you're nearly there but now there's one more obstacle a river to cross Fortunately there's a boat but it's so small that you can only take one thing at a time with you so how do you get everything across the river without anything getting eaten. Oh give you a while to think it over. Of course you might have heard this puzzle before it's an old one probably much older than you thought the 1st record of it is in a document in the 9th century Yes Back before the Norman invasion of Britain in what historians used to call the dark ages. And it's the kind of challenge you might have been said if you were a young lad of that era come to live a life of religious devotion of the French monastery of San Martin into war back when France was still part of the Kingdom of the Franks. You never expected that you fought you were exchanging a precarious subsistence in some godforsaken village for board and lodging provided by the monastery sure you'd have to work the monastic plans and spend long dark hours in Chile Cloisters in prayer or studying the Bible but it seemed like a fair exchange for a bit of security. You probably didn't expect to be set a test in math and logic. But you should have known better after all wasn't the abbot of this monastery that English scholar who some people called the most learned man in the entire world what was his name Al-Q. In it Alcuin from the English city of York. And it seems that this out cueing has gone and written a book of mathematical puzzles in Latin of course called problems to sharpen the young. Here's another 12 men a leading oxen along the road and one says to the other Give me 2 oxen and I'll have as many as you have then the other says now you give me 2 oxen and I'll have double the number you have how many oxen were there and how many did each man have . I'll give you the answer to that one too don't worry but the biggest question is surely this how come here in the murky dawn of the Middle Ages when the great intellectual tradition of classical Greece and Rome had all but disappeared before the onslaught of barbarians from the north how come math is being taught at a monastery school for that you can thank or blame Alcuin. A little known figure from this dim and distant period of European history who defies the scandalously bad reputation that age has acquired. The early Middle Ages was far more intellectually vibrant than you would imagine from the stereotype of mud splattered peasants in rags the story of our Q one of York and his mathematical puzzles helps to put this picture right when out Cohen was born in New York around the year 732 there wasn't even an English monarch this was a century and a half before Alfred the Great and England was a patchwork of Saxon kingdoms but they were Christian kingdoms still bearing some of the legacy of Roman rule York had a great cathedral with a school attached Al-Q. And studied there then he became a teacher and ultimately the head of the school under Al-Q. In the York Cathedral School became one of the most distinguished in all of Europe he collected books in a renowned library hand-written of course as well as the works of the early Christian fathers they contained fragments of the learning of the Greeks and Romans works perhaps like the famous natural history of the Roman writer Pliny the Elder there's no trace of the library now and we can't be sure exactly what was in it some of the books were probably scattered across Europe but it's clear how much out you invent aerated books by what he wrote where books are kept small roofs hold the gifts of Heavenly Wisdom reader learned them rejoicing with a devout heart out Q And was then a jewel in the crown of early English scholarship then he got poached by the Franks. In the 8th century the Franks who had ruled over the region covering roughly modern France expanded their kingdom under Charles the Great or Charlemagne what became known as the Carolingian empire grew to include much of Europe as Charlemagne sought to expand the borders of Christendom. Was. In the year 800 he offered his sword to protect Pope Leo the 3rd head of the Roman church from his political enemies in Rome the pope duly crowned the Frankish King Holy Roman Emperor the defender of the Christian West. Charlemagne wasn't just a powerful military leader but also a scholar I'm like several other kings about age he could read and he read avidly the books of classical thinkers he learnt grammar and rhetoric but also wanted to know the scientific side of the so-called liberal arts of antiquity subjects' like astronomy geometry and arithmetic he loved music especially a form of Roman ekklesia asked to go chant called the Countess romanist. In the 7th eighties he created a learned court at his capitol in Arkan and now he wanted to get hold of the best teacher around everyone knew who that was so Alcuin came from York to Aachen where he taught the Holy Roman Emperor he helped to establish schools and many of the major cathedrals of Charlemagne's newly minted Holy Roman Empire. Alcuin stayed in Charlemagne's court until he retired to become Abbot at tour in 796. He was the mastermind behind a resurgence of learning so profound that it has sometimes been called the Carolingian Renee songs now some rulers who venerated books regarded them not so much as receptacles of wisdom but as expensive luxuries emblems of wealth and power but just by their very existence these volumes helped to preserve some of the knowledge of the ancients and to foster a belief that questions about the nature of the world were worth asking and could be onside without bringing God into the equation. It wasn't much like science as we think of it today nothing in the Middle Ages really was but medieval scholarship created the intellectual platform that made science possible it advocated reason and it made sure that mathematical skills in subjects like arithmetic and geometry were widely taught I spoke to historian Mary garrison of the University of York an expert on Al-Q. In Mary believes that out q. In his faith in the value of learning for its own sake was unparalleled at that time and she sees his scholarly life as a crucial and overlooked turning point in Western intellectual history but I asked her what do we really know of our q. And as a person it's almost impossible to really know a person in the past but there are features of character that show up very vividly so we know a great deal about his friendships his homesickness for England and also his incredible authority in confidence he was the only person who dared to contradict Charlemagne I want to ask you a little bit about this library that al-Q. Him and his predecessor put together in New York 1st of all do we know what was in it the library itself might have been rather small or perhaps just a 100 books but for the time that would have been a substantial library and the important thing about it is the books were very rare and carefully chosen so it was a scholar's collection of books that spanned Christian patristic teaching some Christian poets and all of the liberal arts and then history and natural history and can you give a sense of what what does a book mean if the a the night centuries as a physical object so a book would be a manuscript written on parchment so Casco or sheepskin. Or bound in wooden boards or with a soft cover books didn't have much in the way of table of contents then and each book was unique and what happened to this library does any of it still survive so the fate of the libraries a mystery we know that out Q one wrote to Charlemagne and said he wanted to acquire some of his York books for the cut in it but it's not clear whether that meant to removing the library from York removing selected books from York or copying selected books the books that were exported and removed from York had to chance to survive or York was attacked by the Vikings a number of times and then it was suffered greatly turn the Norman conquest in the carrying of the north and then of course again at the Reformation so any books that remained in Northumbria were likely to burn or be lost so the fate of out Q In cyber is a mystery but it's likely that there are some books on the continent that came from his library and so where we find an 8th century Northumbrian manuscript. Of an author named an out q. And Cyber a Who's up otherwise very rare then we can conjecture that just maybe those were books from the great last library of occupants York can you give us some sense of what before Al-Q. And came along what learning was thought to be about one of the ways that human marks a new departure is in his writings and in the studies he sponsored and encouraged we can see that he really valued learning as an end in itself before our Q And on the continent learning in the Latin West was largely restricted to salvation and administration the situation in the British Isles is a little bit brighter but nonetheless the kind of education that went down in monasteries didn't leave room for the pursuit of learning for its own sake it's not as though what you're saying is that he opened up the idea of learning to what we now think of a secular learning even if it was being done for secular purposes and he was interested in finding out about the world about geometry about mathematics and not soley about what the Christian scriptures had to say absolutely he affirmed the value of astronomy and mathematics he was Charlemagne's teacher in astronomy one thing is actually we shouldn't neglect Charlemagne So Christianity Judaism and Islam have all had moments and places where a wide ranging capacious program of study was pursuit and then they also all have had moments certain times and places where learning was rigorously austerely directed to just knowledge of the Holy Scriptures. And when we think about whether cultures will choose one option or the other it seems as if secular patronage is a really crucial factor so out humans ideas and his learning in the things he wrote almost all came into being on the cut to mint even though he'd been formed in York and that was because he had the patronage of Charlemagne who was equally enthusiastic about those ideas I mean it's it's too early I guess to talk about this really in terms of establishing the value of what we now think of a science but it does sound as though it's almost a precondition for allowing science to flourish in later times I think this sense of the order in the universe and the delight in uncovering that is a theme that out q. And shares with science Q And I think made a decisive contribution to moving the Western Latin program of studies in a direction that would eventually make a place for science historians like Mary can't say with absolute certainty that the manuscript problems to sharpen the Young was written by Alcuin since it only pops up in France in the late 19th century a 100 years after Alcuin lived this problem of attribution is one historians of the distant past constantly grapple with. But the manuscript does seem to echo both the style and the substance of the problems in the letter Al-Q. And sent to Charlemagne after he'd left the Frankish Empress court it's hard to think of any other prominent figure in the Frankish empire of that time who would have written a text quite like this what's so lovely about the puzzles it contains is that unlike the rather austere books on math that the ancient Greeks wrote their playful with their subject while at the same time encouraging students to think for themselves what is delightful about them too is that they offer a glimpse of daily life in the early Middle Ages in these puzzles people plough fields transport and trade animals stock wine cellars and in one source the puzzle last after each other. Well I hope you've been thinking for yourselves because it's time for some answers here's how you get the goat Wolf and cabbages across the river 1st take the goat leaving the wolf safely with the cabbage years. Then come back for the wolf and take it across but bring the go back with you. Then take the cabbages leaving them with the wolf and coming back for the goat. The key is that you must make the counter-intuitive move of bringing the go back during one trip and the 2 men with the oxen remember that the 1st one said to the other Give me 2 oxen and I'll have as many as you have and the other said Now you gave me 2 oxen and I'll have double the number you have well the 1st man had 4 to begin with and the 2nd one had 8 but I expect you figured that out didn't you. Some of our q. And puzzles are a matter of straightforward arithmetic but in puzzles like the river crossing there's something more sophisticated at play they are early examples of a branch of math called condemnatory x. As I discovered when I spoke with Hannah Frye a mathematician and science communicator at University College London. So how do these puzzles that you and sec Charlemagne they're obviously good fun and you know you can work out the solutions by trial and error but is there any more systematic way you can attack puzzles like with yeah absolutely say using something called common it or x. It's a way to clearly and sort of cleanly order through different possible solutions for something in this case a puzzle and sometimes by doing that you end up coming across things that are quite surprising quite counter-intuitive one quite famous example of this is that you actually only need 23 people in a row before the chances of 2 people sharing a birthday go over 50 percent I think that is quite counter-intuitive you wouldn't expect that because you're so used to thinking about yourself and how often you meet somebody with the same bet is you but when you think through all the possible combinations by looking at it that way by thinking through it common intolerantly that's where these numbers really emerge I mean that is surprising I wonder if their brains are brain sort of trying to make some bad shortcut bend by saying you know you might think Ok well it's 365 days and years it must be about 1506170 people that you need before you're going to get a 50 percent chance is that what our brains do and yeah I think if I wasn't thinking about it probably is sort of what I would do as well only only because I know the answer and only because I've sort of seen it worked out by thinking you know all the different possible pairs of people and I guess it's only when you work through the possible solutions to a puzzle like the goat the cabbage in the wharf you work through the solutions one by one it's only event perhaps that you realize that there might be more than one way to solve the puzzle so we've given one way already but I gather there's another 2nd of course yet they start off the same you have to take I mean the goats the real the sort of Keystone in this right they get the goats the important thing to start with but when you come back to the original riverbank you now have to. Choices you can either take the cabbage or you can take the wolf and that really is where the 2 different solutions split off and you have sort of 2 possible futures after you made that choice between the wolves or the cabbage essentially the rest of the puzzle carries on as you would expect so there's really a kind of symmetry in the parcel Yeah you see when you've got the possible answers tabulated in front of you yeah exactly. So this notion of combat authorities then although it may not have had he wouldn't have that phrase himself. It's really conceptually rooted in the puzzle that he set here yeah that the pattern of ideas that are contained in that river puzzle are the same ideas that you'll find incumbent oryx Are there any real applications of this kind of logic in today's world yeah there absolutely are I mean if essentially community works is all about how to group things together how to sensibly order things when you're counting through them and in that respect there are a whole range of different applications so things like your sat nav is trying to get you to a destination it has to work through all the possible routes that you could take and pick either the fastest or the one with the least amount of traffic if you think about people sending secret messages cryptography in coded messages there are going to be a whole host of possibilities for what the message that's in front of you could actually mean in plain English and what quick talk has have to do is to sensibly count through those different ways to try and find something that looks like proper English by the time it's finished and you see this in computer science a lot of the way that mathematicians and scientists run experiments now you see these kind of convoluted Oriel ideas so underneath this these these playful puzzles are pure insect although he probably didn't write it at the time is actually some pretty profound mathematics does not happen very often that someone will set a puzzle you know playfully that will lead to some new development in math yes I think I mean math as his that's a love puzzles right it's the playground really it's you're doing what you do in your day job but you're but you're doing it for fun you're doing a facade of the surprise and the twists and turns that takes you on but there are certain examples of way. Things that are reaching on the surface look like they're just puzzles ended up being incredibly difficult problems so for instance John Conway's mathematician he was sat in a t.v. Room one day and he was playing around with a little grid and he said Ok let's imagine that some of these cells on this crater are alive and some of them are dead and and if I set up a. Few rules to say in the next year if you like or in the next time period where or not this cell will be alive or dead what will happen and what kind of patterns can we create and it really was something that was just a playful little puzzle that he set himself in the t.v. Room and ended up being this incredibly rich set of ideas that he you know he started and people still now study very professional mathematicians study that little game that little puzzle that he originally created I guess one of vantage we have now and this example makes me think of it is that computers are very good at figuring out very quickly what the different possible outcomes of a situation like that are so people play the game of life on the computer and see what comes out how I also can have computers help to us to tackle these sorts of problems Well there's another example of something that that on the surface looks like it's just another puzzle but ended up being solved by a computer using comment or and that's the 4 color problem so this was originally stated in around the 18 fifty's and the idea is if you get a map and you get 4 different coloring pencils you should be able to color in that map whatever the map looks like with only 4 color and pencils in a way that no 2 areas next to each other have the same color. And it was stated as a problem as a I mean essentially feels like a puzzle right but the proof that that was the case didn't come till much much later and it was really the very 1st big famous proof that a computer was you. To solve and it was it was done by coming up with about 2000 maps and then getting a computer to essentially count through all the different possible ways that you could color them in using these kind of common at Oriel ideas and proving that you could color in each of those maps with just 4 different color and pencils lots of people not just advanced mathematicians seem to delight in solving puzzles so Sudoku you know is just vastly popular What do you think it is about the human mind that draws us to these puzzles and do you think that they are for some people or way into mathematics or otherwise looks like a very forbidding subject I definitely think they're a way into mathematics I think it speaks of practically any mathematician they would have loved to puzzles as a child and it really is sort of a much smaller scale example of what it is like to veer mathematician you know you're set with a challenge the answer isn't immediately clear you have to use all of your wit and logic to try and break through and then there's this are harm omen when you realize that you've finally got it and then you know the sort of delight in finding the answer I mean I personally think that being a physician is far more exhilarating than doing said Ok I don't know where yet to persuade everyone. But does it stem do you think the you have the same impulse when you find the answer it's basically the same as if you had cracked that square yet the ideas about yeah the way that you feel is very So I guess the only difference is that sometimes in you can be struggling on the same problem for you know 6 months easily so that sort of feeling of like I finally cracked it is probably a bit more glorious than just finishing a sudoku but yeah I mean it's the same type of feeling and it sounds like that delight is exactly what Charlemagne was looking for that it seems that he wanted Alcuin to set him these puzzles to test his wits so that same in poll. It sounds like it's been here for centuries and you're still drawing on it now in the work that you do yes I think say I really like the idea of a mathematician being employed as an entertainer because mathematics like this is so. Rich and joyful I just yeah I think that's a that's a nice idea we don't know whether our Q ns brainteasers inspired any budding mediæval mathematicians yet his educational program had an even broader message there is a delight and a value to be had from finding and figuring things out in an age when Curiosity was still viewed with suspicion the impact of that idea resonate throughout the Middle Ages and beyond but maybe today we can see a simpler though no less valuable message in our Q and work math can be fun. To tell but 2017 had an evil look right from the star. We. Were looking back anyway. Because we know there had to be some good movie somewhere the stuff doesn't look back special storytelling with the beat. This is. You can hear that snap judgment. Tomorrow afternoon at one right here on 91.7 k l w San Francisco local public radio you can find us on my elderly that are next in midnight we go live to London for the b.b.c. Overnight service and then at 5 in the morning It's Morning Edition from n.p.r. News hosted by Kevin me I'm Terry Kennedy switching. And a welcome to News Day from the b.b.c. World Service with each uncanny show in his 1st interview since leaving the White House Barack Obama issues a warning about the irresponsible yeas of social media.