Transcripts For GBN The 20240703

Claire coutinho, just how much it will cost to decarbonise britain and what personal steps shes taken to save the planet , shes taken to save the planet, as the metropolitan police has come under fire for threatening to arrest someone on this who has a guest on this show. Has been a guest on this show. The openly jewish anti semitism container gideon falter for danng container gideon falter for daring to walk near a pro palestinian protest. Well pro palestinian protest. Well hear from lord walney, the former labour mp and independent advisor to the government on Political Violence and disruption. Its now the time disruption. Its now the time for the government to step in and put a halt to these marches. Ill also be joined by the conservative mp danny kruger, who week called on who earlier this week called on rishi to be braver and rishi sunak to be braver and asking him what he thinks the pm should be doing to win the next general election. Tim shipman, the chief political commentator of the sunday times, will be here share latest book, here to share his latest book, no way tracing the no way out, tracing the unprecedented and lows of unprecedented highs and lows of theresa mays tenure, and former prison governor and author Ian Aitchison will be delving into the state of the british the dire state of the british prison system and explaining why islamic filling the islamic gangs are filling the void behind bars. Were going to be covering a great deal over the next 90 minutes, so do not even think of going anywhere. Well, a lot to get through this morning. A lot in the papers, morning. A lot in the papers, a bit of an eclectic mix on this sunday morning, i must admit. Lets go through it all now with my fellow gb news presenter whos on from 11, michael portillo. Of course, the former defence secretary. Michael, portillo. Of course, the former defence sejoining michael, portillo. Of course, the former defence sejoining me hael, portillo. Of course, the former defence sejoining me thisl, thanks for joining me this morning. Morning camilla. Morning. Good morning camilla. Lovely you. Talk lovely to see you. Lets talk about the being in the dock. About the met being in the dock. So weve mark rosen so yes weve got mark rosen facing offensive on a number facing an offensive on a number of fronts over this extraordinary situation involving gideon falter. Hes been on this show. Hes the ceo of the campaign against anti semitism. Hes stopped at a pro palestinian march, which he basically stumbles on. Hes in town on saturday. He ends up stumbling on the march. Hes in his kipper, his skull cap, and basically the police turn round and say that, you know, hes too openly jewish to be there and may prove to be a provocation. And then a little later on, he gets threatened arrest. Gets threatened with arrest. And the commissioner, mark the met chief commissioner, mark rowley, is now under fire. Suella braverman, the former home secretary calling for him to step down. Your reaction, michael . Well, gideon falter has an article himself this morning which is very because as which is very moving because as you he was simply you say, he was simply returning, apparently from synagogue and he trying to synagogue and he was trying to cross road. And there was this cross a road. And there was this demonstration, its not as demonstration, and its not as though was just standing though he was just standing there. Demonstration there. And the demonstration just went by. Apparently there were crowd baying were people in the crowd baying at like scum and at him, words like scum and nazi, noticed no action nazi, and noticed that no action was taken by the police against the people who were baying at him. They were baying at him, presumably he was openly presumably because he was openly jewish. Is say, he was jewish. That is to say, he was wearing kippah. And as we wearing his kippah. And as we know, the Police Officers who were present are supposedly out of concern for his safety. But they they seem to give the impression that he was a provocation. And that he should remove himself. Now, a lot of people have been very concerned that every weekend these demonstrations are occurring, theres expressions like from theres expressions like from the to the sea are used the river to the sea are used routinely, that swastikas have appeared on some occasions, that the crowd jeers from behind masks at passers by, of course, and scum and so on. And this now seems to become entirely routine. And equally, its become entirely routine that jewish citizens find that they cant go to these places where the marches are. And indeed, it now seems to be that the police think they should be moved on. By think they should be moved on. By the way, when they did move on the gideon falter and his group of friends, they were followed by the police make followed by the police to make sure that didnt return. Sure that they didnt return. And more provocation. So and offer more provocation. So this all very unsatisfactory. This is all very unsatisfactory. Suella braverman launched Suella Braverman has launched into trying to into this, possibly trying to settle old scores with mark rowley. I dont think this will have the consequence of removing the metropolitan Police Commissioner, it certainly commissioner, but it certainly putting pressure on the way that these marches are policed. And i think it raises the question about whether they all have to be allowed to go ahead. And the circumstances in which they are allowed to go ahead. And the things that people are allowed to say and allow to display on their banners. While this is going because at the moment going on, because at the moment it the law abiding it appears that the law abiding citizen one and citizen is set to one side and that the mob is given precedence. That is, after all, what. And that is, after all, what Suella Braverman to refer Suella Braverman used to refer to two tier policing. Yes. To as two tier policing. Yes. And when comes to the and when it comes to the governments this, governments response to this, i think bit of buck think theres been a bit of buck passing because the government keeps that police keeps on saying that the police have powers and yet the met have the powers and yet the met police are saying, well, they seem be being a bit seem to be being a bit ambivalent about that and questioning have questioning whether they do have the that the government the powers that the government says have. I think were says they have. I think were now getting stage where now getting to the stage where peoples with these peoples patience with these marches peoples patience with these marche heard from the home when we heard from the home secretary, cleverly, sort secretary, james cleverly, sort of saying, youve made your of saying, oh, youve made your point i suppose the point now, i suppose the governments support governments trying to support the right to protest, because there has been some criticism of them trying to curtail that with other legislation. So rishi sunaks in a bit of a tricky position here because he doesnt, as a conservative, want to as hes shutting down to look as if hes shutting down legitimate protests while at the same time, i think there are quite few people looking at quite a few people looking at these on these marches still going on after and saying after six months and saying enoughs enough. On week as well. Going on every week as well. I mean, theyve virtually become a british institution. These demonstrations and that, i think is a very unfortunate position. And, you know, whether in our liberality we are obliged to have marches every single week, particularly marches that make a lot of people feel very uncomfortable, i very much doubt i dont have enough knowledge of the law to know what further leeway the government might have on this, but i think a lot of people are fed up with the fact that this has just become a part of london life , and would very of london life, and would very much hope that things could be changed. I mean, may have crossed i mean, we may have crossed the it comes the the rubicon when it comes to the way falter was dealt way that mr falter was dealt with, because i think most people watching that just thought it completely thought it was completely iniquitous facing iniquitous to have him facing arrest while, say, arrest while, as you say, michael, scum michael, those chanting scum and nazi a jewish man in a skull nazi to a jewish man in a skull cap arent told off by the police. Nothing happens to them. It doesnt seem right. No. Well, that, i think, is why Suella Braverman has returned to the fray today, because she did use this expression. Two tier policing. It the things that it was one of the things that cost her her job. Yes. And you know what . Better demonstration of two tier policing than that . Of two tier policing than that . He might be said, of course, that also the met made the most appalling botch of its apology. And indeed, yes, this boring of tweets and things was just. And gideon falter says that even today he has he hasnt really received an apology. Your received an apology. But your instinct that for now, instinct is that for now, rowleys is it . Rowleys safe, is it . I, i think rowley will go on, but the pressure is on and theres a lot of people quoted in the article who are calling for his head. The number of people calling for his head is now quite a large number. Well find out from Claire Coutinho later whether the government confidence the government has confidence in the met commissioner. Met Police Commissioner. Lets move defence matters now. Move on to defence matters now. Quite interesting this an intervention from Penny Mordaunt. Cant think why she might be writing an opinion piece in the in the sunday telegraph about the of the telegraph about the idea of the uk an iron dome to uk having an iron dome to replicate israels air defence protection system. Protection system. The question really is whether this is defence or attack. Yes it appears to be about defence, but it might be Penny Mordaunt attack , well, Penny Mordaunt attack, well, first of all, to the issue itself, which is shes proposed that we should have an iron dome. I must say it is deeply impressive what the israelis have, the fact that they could face hundreds of projectiles from and only i or 2, well, from iran and only i or 2, well, fewer than i reached their target is deeply impressive. And target is deeply impressive. And we have nothing like that whatsoever. The nature of warfare is changing. Its being illustrated by whats happening in the middle east and by whats happening in ukraine and russia. And i dont know whether we have caught at all with the nature caught up at all with the nature of changes. So, you know, of the changes. So, you know, were still invested in, you know, tanks and ships and aircraft. Whats going on now is aircraft. Whats going on now is a war of missiles and drone wars and so on. And i dont know how adept we are either at launching those technologies or defending ourselves against the technology. So i think actually, penny mordens point is pretty well made in itself. Mordens point is pretty well made in itself. However, you made in itself. However, you know, because defence spending is increased by either is not being increased by either party in its plans, you know , party in its plans, you know, there are rather mealy mouthed projections about when defence spending be increased. And spending might be increased. And as said to you before on as ive said to you before on this programme, because defence spending is so poorly spent anyway, no anyway, theres absolutely no prospect british britain prospect of british britain getting an iron dome. I find getting an iron dome. And i find it fascinating that, you know, even now, as ukraine is slowly , even now, as ukraine is slowly, you know, losing the war against russia, even as we see the danger of israel being attacked by iran. Still, it doesnt cause by iran. Still, it doesnt cause defence spending either to be raised or to be changed in this country. And the justification for not raising defence spending by from both the Prime Minister and indeed jeremy hunt, literally in that chair a few weeks ago. Well, we must be prudent and we must be a careful government, this sort of thing. Well, wouldnt it be prudent to increase defence spending with wouldnt it be prudent to incrworldiefence spending with wouldnt it be prudent to incrworld seemingly nding with wouldnt it be prudent to incrworld seemingly on ng with wouldnt it be prudent to incrworld seemingly on ng vbrink the world seemingly on the brink of world iii . Of world war iii . I it extraordinary. The i find it extraordinary. The extent to which it doesnt change Political Attitudes and by the way, we havent referred to this, but theres been this very important vote in the house of representatives where the yes, you the £50 billion yes, you know, the £50 billion package been given package which has been given to ukraine, is very ukraine, which is very important. We britain, you important. We in britain, you know, grandly say, look know, rather grandly say, look at this vote. Its been tied up in domestic politics for all this time. Terrible americans, confusing policy and confusing domestic policy and foreign policy. Thats exactly what do. Yes, because were what we do. Yes, because were not spend either not prepared to spend either enough or well enough on defence and none of that is changing despite all the threats. By the way, im slightly i mean, im heartened by the vote in the house of representatives representatives in the short tum. Im disheartened in tum. Im also disheartened in the that i dont think the sense that i dont think therell be another vote. I think, you know , this is it. Think, you know, this is it. Thatis think, you know, this is it. That is it. Yeah. And its not enough for ukraine to win, and its not enough for ukraine to avoid defeat. And i think its deeply depressing that the message that we send to the world is that the west gets war weary very quickly. Yes. And also , if it is the yes. And also, if it is the last package of aid before the next us election, then one has to ask oneself the question of what happens. Should President Trump have a yes . I meant the last package even eve r. Even ever. Because indeed, because even if biden gets back in and unless the democrats won the presidency and the house and the senate. Yes. Its difficult to see how youd have another package. And even i think the democrats arent immune to war weariness. Arent immune to war weariness. Well, the trouble is, as well, with him having upped his own defence spending, Vladimir Putin i think, 7. 5 of gdp, putin to, i think, 7. 5 of gdp, hes not getting war weary, is he . Hes just investing more and more and more in it. No. And hes not the only one taking, taking the signals from the account, because the west into account, because china these signals china will take these signals into account as well. Have a quick word on lets have a quick word on Angela Rayner. Because Angela Rayner. Just because i havent to havent had a chance to speak to you this story. I mean, you about this story. I mean, the on sunday still got the the mail on sunday still got the bit their teeth. Theyve bit between their teeth. Theyve now some documentary now got some documentary evidence the that she evidence of the idea that she did these two homes, and did have these two homes, and there may have some there may have been some anomaly, it that way. Anomaly, lets put it that way. With gains tax bill, with a Capital Gains tax bill, do that angela do you think that Angela Rayners is tenable at rayners position is tenable at the moment . Yes, its tenable at the moment. Me why i think moment. Let me say why i think this matters. Its very interesting that people on the left of politics always think that the solution to everything is more public spending. So if you find that someone is not willing to put in their fair share taxation, that would be share of taxation, that would be a serious against a very serious finding against them, wouldnt it . So thats thats why i think it matters now. It is perfectly true that now. It is perfectly true that there is a Huge Campaign being launched by titles that are on the right of politics, like the telegraph and the mail. However, they seem have any they dont seem to have any shortage people to help them shortage of people to help them because last week had pretty because last week we had pretty damaging testimony from a fellow called matt finnegan, who was her chief adviser. And her former chief adviser. And today in mail on sunday, today in the mail on sunday, theres damaging testimony theres very damaging testimony from called sylvia from a lady called sylvia hampson, was her neighbour, hampson, who was her neighbour, who was a Angela Rayners neighbour, in vicarage road. I think it all gets very confusing. This and in fact, this person, sylvia hampson, knew who Angela Rayner well enough to sign a document for her regarding the sale of the property. So if this person is calling Angela Rayner as she does as something liar, then then thats quite serious. So i mean , it is true that the right mean, it is true that the right wing press is out to get angela raynen wing press is out to get Angela Rayner, but they are being helped by people who are supposedly either Angela Rayners friends or Angela Rayners friends or Angela Rayners ex friends. Yes which raises also the notion that this isnt a story. I mean, theres a piece in the mail on sunday questioning why the guardian hasnt really covered sunday questioning why the guarbbcsasnt really covered sunday questioning why the guar bbcsasnt re looked lered sunday questioning why the guarbbcsasnt relooked ated this. Bbcs barely looked at it. There a story michael, there is a story here, michael, because shes being accused of lying, shes a woman who lying, and shes a woman who wants be next deputy wants to be the next deputy Prime Minister someone who Prime Minister and someone who believes public spending believes in in public spending and therefore believe and therefore must believe in paying and therefore must believe in paying of taxes paying the fair share of taxes and i think she made an error, surely, by saying that shed had this advice. There was she wasnt prepared to publish, i dont think i would have gone that route. No, because, you know, everybody then to see then wants to see it. Indeed. So are we going indeed. So why are we going to have to leave it there for time . But lovely to see you, and were going to see you back on our screens this at our screens on this channel at 11 00. Forward that. 11 00. So look forward to that. Thank thank you thank you very much. Thank you so to michael portillo, so much to michael portillo, coming up next, going to be coming up next, im going to be joined by the energy minister, claire welcome back to gb news. Youre watching the Camilla Tominey show. Lovely to have your company this morning. Im delighted to be joined now by secretary of state for Energy Security and net zero. And the conservative for east surrey, conservative mp for east surrey, claire minister, Claire Coutinho. Minister, lovely you morning. Lovely to see you this morning. Thank very much for joining thank you very much for joining me. Start with really me. Lets start with a really simple question. Does the government have confidence in sir the sir mark rowley, the metropolitan commissioner . Well, 7 well, look, . Well, look, let me 7 well, look, let me start . Well, look, let me start by saying that i think the met have made a serious misstep here. And i think being told as any part of a community that your simple presence is a provocation to others is completely wrong. And so i know the home secretary has made that clear, and ministers will be meeting with sir mark in the coming days. But nobody in society should feel that they cannot walk about the streets of london, that they cannot live their normal lives. I mean, youve pointed out the problems with the policing, with the marches. Marches. Its not the first time that concerns have been raised. We know that your colleague, the former home secretary, Suella Braverman, been very braverman, has been very critical the police, saying critical of the police, saying that its system of two tier that its a system of two tier policing, saying that theyre that its a system of two tier policingfavouritesiat theyre that its a system of two tier policingfavourites. T theyre that its a system of two tier policingfavourites. Yes, yre that its a system of two tier policingfavourites. Yes, we have playing favourites. Yes, we have this extraordinary situation with falter , basically with gideon falter, basically being told that he was a provocation for being openly jewish. We then had the met police having to delete Series Police having to delete a series of trying to address the of tweets trying to address the issue. A huge amount of bungling. Weve had, concerns expressed by william shawcross, who led the review into prevent questioning the met polices approach to all of this. So weve got to sort of catalogue of errors. Meanwhile i was reading yesterday, hilary cass, the lady who carried out the review into the tavistock clinic, is now saying that she cant go on public transport. She doesnt feel safe. So the met police appears to have lost control of the streets of london. And so ill ask you one more time. Does the government have confidence in sir mark . Well, look, sir, i was the for minister our free speech, and i think this really is fundamental to how we view equality in this country. And for me is that everyone should have equal freedoms. What you cant do is place the needs of one identity over the needs of another. And you just talked about two issues there where i think that was happening. So i think that was happening. So i think it is really important that we get a grip on this. And like i say, i cant speak for the conversations that the home secretary going to with secretary is going to have with sir rowley. I would sir mark rowley. But i would just everyone that the just remind everyone that the person got accountability person whos got accountability for the london met is the labour london mayor, and actually , he london mayor, and actually, he needs to get a grip on these protests and make sure that its not case that a particular not the case that a particular group, in this case, the Jewish Community, like they cant community, feel like they cant use freedoms that we all use the freedoms that we all have to walk about london and live normal lives. Live our normal lives. So when i ask you whether youve got confidence in sir mark rowley, youre not saying yes. So am i. To conclude from that . And should gp viewers and listeners conclude that you havent got confidence in the met Police Commissioner . Met Police Commissioner . Well, look, i wouldnt go that far because i havent had those conversations with him. But what i do want to see is every member of our communities in london feeling like they can walk around and do what they need to do. That, for me, is need to do. That, for me, is what equality means. Thats how we a cohesive society. And we have a cohesive society. And i this is a really i think this is a really fundamentally point. Fundamentally important point. And do you think that the met police been mishandling police has been mishandling these marches . These pro palestinian marches . Weve people weve had six months of people now marching on the streets of london every saturday. Theres a feeling, isnt there, particularly represented by mr falter , that jews do feel falter, that jews do feel intimidated by these marches. Intimidated by these marches. Weve had some people on marches sort of openly glorifying hamas, which is glorifying terrorism. Weve had these chants from the river to the sea, which are deeply offensive to the Jewish Community. Weve had, in mr fawltys case, people shouting at him that hes a scumbag and that hes a nazi. So can we at least conclude that the metropolitan police and indeed, vicariously , its commissioner, vicariously, its commissioner, has mishandled the policing of these as. These marches as. Yes, look, i completely i completely would say that i think theres been a number of mistakes and actually, look, its not an easy thing to police. I would say that its difficult for policing at the moment, just in this country moment, not just in this country but the world. But its but around the world. But its really that we do grip really important that we do grip this because is about this because this is about peoples fundamental ability to feel like they have equality in this country, and thats why its so important. So then im confused then as to why you would still have confidence mark rowley. Confidence in sir mark rowley. Well, look, my priority is that we get the policing right. So the home secretary has made clear that what happened was unacceptable. I understand theres going to be a meeting in theres going to be a meeting in the coming days. I dont theres going to be a meeting in the coming days. I dont know the coming days. I dont know what conversation is going to take i think we take place there. I think we should how that conversation should see how that conversation goes. Ultimately, goes. But ultimately, whats really important people really important is that people in community feel in the Jewish Community feel safe. They know that were on their side that what we want their side and that what we want to see equal policing in this to see is equal policing in this country, and also to sure country, and also to make sure that they go about their that they can go about their normal lives. Thats what i want to see. Pl okay, minister, lets get on to now and talk about to your brief now and talk about energy and climate how energy and Climate Change. How much going to cost to much is it going to cost to decarbonise britain by 2050 . So there are various costs that are out there. Last year we spent about £7 billion on some of this agenda. And i think the of this agenda. And i think the really important thing is how we are getting there. So firstly, i would just point to our record. We are the first country to have halved emissions, but weve done this at the same time as growing the economy by 80. And that is my priority because we have to make sure that we can have cheap energy in this country. We have to make sure that we can have a competitive economy, that businesses can thrive. And yes, we know that are going to we do know that we are going to have to invest in industries have to invest in the industries of the future, and that is what im focused on. Cost it until 2050 but the cost of it until 2050 is really relevant to this debate isnt because you debate, isnt it . Because you said billion so far, taxpayers said 7 billion so far, taxpayers are rightly concerned that theyre having to pay a great deal of money to achieve a target that comparison to, target that in comparison to, say, emissions, makes say, chinas emissions, makes the uk look like saint. Say, chinas emissions, makes the uk look like saint. Weve the uk look like a saint. Weve got less co2 emissions now than we did in 1879. We account for less than 1 of global emissions, and youve talked about £7 billion worth of expenditure already. So what is the calculation . You must have an overall cost of a policy to 2050. You cant possibly come up with a policy that costs taxpayers that much money, are not say what the bottom line figure is. Figure is. Look. So there are different costs that are out there, but it depends on how you do this. And i would say if you look at all the steps that weve taken since ive been imposed, what we are doing is making sure that we can protect households from the worst because i think worst costs, because i think people care about climate people do care about Climate Change. You they change. But as you say, they dont want to have costs heaped upon when they that upon them when they know that there global there were only 1 of global emissions, that emissions, they can see that other countries polluting other countries are polluting a lot more. So we want to do this in way. But even in in a sensible way. But even in that 7 billion, camilla, you know, that is on, for know, some of that is on, for example, nuclear energy, a big chunk of that insulating chunk of that is on insulating peoples those peoples homes. I think those are that would are measures that people would support that we need support and things that we need to over the long tum anyway. To do over the long tum anyway. But im not going to stand but what im not going to stand here and like some of the here and say, like some of the other parties, is that there are no tum costs of this no short tum costs of this agenda, we have agenda, which is why we have taken were one the taken steps and were one of the only parties be talking about only parties to be talking about this openly. We have steps this openly. We have taken steps to were going to do this in to say were going to do this in a measured way. Were going to move the pace of public move at the pace of public appetite it comes to this agenda. Point about whether but this point about whether britain changes britain making these changes and spending actually spending this money is actually going to make a difference on a worldwide scale. That echoed worldwide scale. That was echoed by tony of all people. He by tony blair, of all people. He said, i quote, dont us said, and i quote, dont ask us to huge amount to do a huge amount when, frankly, we in frankly, whatever we do in britain is not going to britain is really not going to impact Climate Change. Its really disagree really hard to disagree with that when, ive pointed out, that when, as ive pointed out, our co2 emissions are less than 1 of the worlds. This is an astonishing statistic here from china. China has been pumping china. China has been pumping out in the last eight years more Carbon Dioxide than britain has since the start of the industrial revolution. In so this is, again exactly augned so this is, again exactly aligned to the approach that im taking. So where im turning up the dial is where we can get investment into this country, because that means jobs that means increasing peoples incomes. So weve got £30 billion of investment into the Energy Sector since ive been in post. But where we have taken you know, a measured approach is when it comes to the costs that people would face. So whether its their boilers or their cars , weve said, actually were going to take a bit more time on this because we dont want to heap actually, heap costs on people. Actually, i pubuc heap costs on people. Actually, i public would i dont think the public would accept when they see other accept that when they see other countries are polluting more. Minister. That is the minister. So i think that is the right approach. I think were going at the grain of going to move at the grain of pubuc going to move at the grain of public opinion. Okay, really quick last question, running question, because were running out a heat out of time. Do you have a heat pump installed yet . Yes no . Pump installed yet . Yes or no . No. So i dont at the moment. But this is, i think, exactly no. So i dont at the moment. But sames, i think, exactly no. So i dont at the moment. But same thingink, exactly no. So i dont at the moment. But same thing that exactly no. So i dont at the moment. But same thing that lots ly no. So i dont at the moment. But same thing that lots of the same thing that lots of people the face where people in the country face where they have the cash to do they dont have the cash to do it or they dont have the suitable home, but not suitable home, but that is not the position other parties. The position of other parties. Camilla. I think if we want camilla. So i think if we want a sensible approach on this agenda, we are one the agenda, then we are one of the only people putting that forward. Claire catania, thank you very much your time very much indeed for your time this you. Well, this morning. Thank you. Well, up next, danny welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show. So much more to come in the next hour. Very shortly, im going to be joined by the conservative mp danny kruger. As things look continuously bleak for the tories, continuously blea he yr the continuously blea he think the tories, what does he think the pm do to save the partys pm can do to save the partys chances and unite the right and lord independent lord walney, the independent government adviser on Political Violence disruption , will be violence and disruption, will be sharing his thoughts as to whether time sir mark whether its time for sir mark rowley stop altogether rowley to put a stop altogether to pro palestinian protests to the pro palestinian protests taking over london every saturday. But first, heres the news with Cameron Walker. News with Cameron Walker. Camilla. Thank you. Its 10 00. Im Cameron Walker in the gb newsroom. The metropolitan Police Commissioner is facing calls to quit over the forces handung calls to quit over the forces handling of pro palestinian protests. Former home secretary Suella Braverman has accused sir mark rowley of having emboldened anti semites, writing in the sunday telegraph, she says thugs are being allowed to intimidate and harass, claiming theyre being waved on by the police. Being waved on by the police. The campaign against anti semitism is also calling for sir mark to resign or be sacked after its chief executive , gideon falter, was described as openly jewish by an officer, as openly jewish by an officer, a decision by the us to approve £49 billion in aid for ukraine has been welcomed by the uk , has been welcomed by the uk, with the foreign secretary describing it as a vital step forward. After months of wrangling , american politicians wrangling, american politicians ended a deadlock, agreeing to provide a package which will also help replenish weapons and munitions. Also help replenish weapons and munitions. Us president zelenskyy says the move will keep the war from expanding and will save thousands of lives. Lord cameron also added if putin ever doubted the west resolve to back ukraine, this action shows the collective will is undimmed. The collective will is undimmed. The victims of last weekends knife attack in sydney have been remembered at a candlelight vigil on bondi beach, obe sydney based how sweet the sound. Six based how sweet the sound. Six people were killed by joel cauchi in the Westfield Shopping Centre last saturday. The attacker was shot dead by police australias Prime Minister anthony albanese, told the family and friends of victims that made those we have lost rest in eternal peace forever in our hearts right now , wales is our hearts right now, wales is set to change a controversial law on new speed limits. Half a Million People signed a petition raising concerns about the 20mph zones, saying some routes should not have been included. The government says the new limits will remain in place around schools, hospitals and built up areas, but has admitted its guidance needs to be corrected in other places. The welsh transport minister is expected to announce the changes on tuesday. A Record Number of tuesday. A Record Number of people are running the London Marathon, with more than 50,000 signed up for the event. Gb news Political Editor Christopher Hopeis Political Editor Christopher Hope is among them, aiming to complete the 26. 2 mile route with his children. With his children. Were running for scope with the disabled charity. Our the disabled charity. Our daughter pollyanna, of course, lost a leg in that bus crash 17 years ago. On thursday next week. Very sadly, my wife, sarahs mother, was killed in that crash. So weve been its something weve been part of our lives for so long, but we want to raise money for scope which which advocates for disabled people, 11, 16 Million People in this country are seen as disabled. So its a group which disabled. So its a group which we think is very important. And thanks to everyone for their support for the latest stories , support for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews. Com alerts. Now its back to. Camilla. Now its back to. Camilla. Now its back to. Camilla. Thanks, cameron. Welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show. Lots more still to come in just a minute. Im going to be joined by the conservative mp for devizes, danny kruger. What does he make liz trusss new book . He make of liz trusss new book . Do really only ten years do we really only have ten years to the west . Ill also be to save the west . Ill also be speaking to lord walney, who has previously called for pro palestinian protests to be banned intimidate jews. Banned if they intimidate jews. Is now the for the met to is now the time for the met to finally take action . Tim shipman, the chief political commentator of the sunday times, will sharing details will be sharing the details of his in his brexit his latest book in his brexit quartette, probing quartette, and ill be probing him on who he really thinks led to the downfall of Boris Johnson. Ill be joined by. And ill later be joined by the and former prison the author and former prison officer Ian Aitchison, whose new book looks at the dire book screwed looks at the dire state of britains british british prisons and whether they have become a breeding ground for islamic extremism. So all for islamic extremism. So all thatis for islamic extremism. So all that is still to come dont go anywhere. But im delighted to be joined in the studio now by danny kruger, the conservative mp devizes, closely mp for devizes, closely associated new associated with the new conservatives , along with conservatives group, along with miriam to you miriam cates. Lovely to see you this morning, danny. I know you this morning, danny. I know you were following report were following the news report there, and sort of rolling your eyes at the treatment of gideon falter. The head of the campaign against anti semitism. I mean, whats reaction to how the whats your reaction to how the met police have been handling both case as an openly both his case as an openly jewish man a skullcap trying jewish man in a skullcap trying to, his way around london. To, make his way around london. And indeed, the pro palestinian marches in general. Well, im afraid it does justify what Suella Braverman was saying six months ago, along with a bunch of us, which is that the policing of the palestinian marches represents a contradiction and a hypocrisy on the part of the police who claim to be policing impartially. They do have a very difficult job. Lets acknowledge the reality on the ground. Theyre not trying to do the wrong thing, but they are wrong thing. I are doing the wrong thing. And i think suella right then think that suella was right then to calling for a law to be calling for a new law which would enable the government to insist that marches this go ahead marches like this dont go ahead if danger as there if there is a danger as there is, weve seen, of serious is, as weve seen, of serious altercation, its totally altercation, its just totally wrong that a any citizen, but particularly in the times were in at the moment, a jewish citizen should not be able to walk around london without being told by the police that his presence is a problem. And i understand they felt that because there was a danger of a of an altercation of people on the march him, the march attacking him, and they threatening they were clearly threatening him. Is them. Him. Well, the problem is them. The problem is the people on the march. And the way, again, we march. And by the way, again, we should acknowledge that most people on these people who are marching on these palestinian not palestinian marches are not angry and angry or aggressive people, and theyre the theyre just doing it in the cause of, of palestine. I mean, cause of, of palestine. I mean, i why they have i wonder why they dont have banners saying, know, banners saying, you know, denouncing hamas, but nevertheless, allow nevertheless, lets lets allow that. A significant that. But there is a significant contingent aggressive contingent who are aggressive and potentially and militant and potentially violent against jewish people. So on that i think the so on that ground, i think the marches should not be going ahead, certainly form ahead, certainly in the form they and the problem with they are. And the problem with that that was that situation that we saw was not the jewish individual , it not the jewish individual, it was the aggressive protesters who threatening him. Was the aggressive protesters wh and threatening him. Was the aggressive protesters wh and when atening him. Was the aggressive protesters wh and when you ing him. Was the aggressive protesters wh and when you sayhim. Was the aggressive protesters wh and when you say that new and when you say that new legislation is needed, thats quite because weve quite interesting because weve sort to and fro sort of seen this to and fro between the government and indeed government, indeed the met government, saying have powers saying, you have the powers i had Suella Braverman in your chair weeks ago, chair saying a few weeks ago, they powers. Theyre chair saying a few weeks ago, they not powers. Theyre chair saying a few weeks ago, they not using powers. Theyre chair saying a few weeks ago, they not using them. ;. Theyre chair saying a few weeks ago, they not using them. But|eyre chair saying a few weeks ago, theynot using them. But you; just not using them. But you actually think that we do need to another law to, to, to. To have another law to, to, to. Well, i think we might ban them completely. Its apparent that we need to clarify things because the way the marches the police justify the marches at that they they at the moment is that they they say they can go ahead because they will not be the risk of danger of public disorder. Thats only the case if they dont actually impose enforce the law. They allow people to chant and to display banners, which should be illegal. In fact, really are illegal. I mean, theyre deep, deeply offensive. Mean, theyre deep, deeply offenssomethings glorifying if somethings glorifying terrorism inciting. Terrorism or inciting. So, mean, i agree with so, i mean, i agree with suella that we should the suella that we should be the police should i think, in police should be, i think, in policing real time , the policing in real time, the activity of the of the protesters. I think it is protesters. But i think it is also necessary, given the difficult state were to, in, for parliament to clarify that. Unfortunately, im not proposing restrictions on free speech or the right of protest. Im proposing restrictions on activity that is directly threatening public order and threatening to public order and to and indeed to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. Its not okay that jewish people speech and freedom of assembly. Its not allowedit jewish people speech and freedom of assembly. Its not allowed into vish people speech and freedom of assembly. Its not allowed into centralyple are not allowed into Central London on a saturday. I mean, playing sides, i mean, this playing sides, which was something that braverman accused the met of braverman had accused the met of some time ago and indeed led to her losing her job, how far do we sort of go on this . Because weve had oliver dowd and the deputy minister speaking deputy Prime Minister speaking to telegraph this to the sunday telegraph this morning, saying he morning, sort of saying that he cant understand jews cant quite understand why jews are to other are treated differently to other ethnic minorities. If you went to far end of the wedge on to the far end of the wedge on being outspoken about this, youd ely andersons youd looked at ely andersons quotes to quotes before he defected to reform, where he was basically saying, i dont actually believe that islam ists have got control of the country. But what i do believe is theyve got control of sadiq khan and theyve got control of london. Is that right . I mean, because clearly the policing towards people who are on the marches differs to those who are jewish or seeming to provoke the marches. So have we got islamists taking over london . Do you agree with that analysis or what . Whats at play here . Is it the police being politically correct and not wanting to upset people . Theres a theres an unfortunate alliance. I dont think its a deliberate one. So i dont accept that islamists are the levers i dont accept that islamists are london. The levers i dont accept that islamists ar is a problem the culture of simply say he should go. There is a police,m the culture of simply say he should go. There is a police, ultimately culture of simply say he should go. There is a police, ultimately thatrre of the police, ultimately that comes top, which is comes from the top, which is with mayor oversees with the mayor who oversees them. I think we have them. I do think we have a genuine problem about the way the police regard these protests, which you see from the top, the top, from him through the commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, through the Deputy Commissioner who issued that absurd other day absurd statement the other day through officer on the through to the officer on the ground who who caused ground who the one who caused the offence by accusing this man vicariously all the way through. We have a problem. I see youre saying. But i see what youre saying. But then its slightly oxymoronic to say dont confidence in say you dont have confidence in mark rowley. Rowley, and then saying its not. Its a bit saying that its not. Its a bit academic whether he goes or not, if you dont have confidence in him, must. Him, then you must. Like to see change. I i would like to see change. I would to see change. Id would like to see change. Id like change from the top. Id like to change from the top. Id like to change from the top. Id like mayor to go first like the mayor to go first thing. The first thing to do is to change commissioner. The first thing to do is to change its commissioner. The first thing to do is to change its not commissioner. The first thing to do is to change its not enoughnissioner. The first thing to do is to change its not enough just oner. The first thing to do is to change its not enough just to an but its not enough just to change executive. Have to change an executive. You have to change an executive. You have to change the culture of the organisation. If we swapped organisation. If we just swapped him with another colleague who felt way, what would we felt the same way, what would we have achieved . Yeah, we have and i is a i think this does this is a responsibility government responsibility on government which has a role which hasnt also has a role over the police, the police to say home secretary and the say the home secretary and the policing going to policing minister are going to be the this be challenging the met this week about whats happened. We need to the way the to see a reset of the way the police these protests and police regard these protests and in fact, policing in london in general. Have a genuine general. So we have a genuine problem just problem and its not enough just to with the commissioner. Speaking organisational commissioner. Speedoes organisational commissioner. Spee does the rganisational commissioner. Spee does the tory sational commissioner. Speedoes the tory partyial commissioner. Spee does the tory party need change, does the tory party need to theres was quite to change, theres i was quite intrigued last week, sort intrigued that last week, sort of to conservatives on of speaking to conservatives on both the this both sides of the party, this broad know, broad church of yours, you know, more conservatives more left leaning conservatives and also right leaning conservatives least conservatives agreeing at least on the may on one thing, if the may elections disaster for elections are a disaster for rishi sunak and indeed lose rishi sunak and indeed you lose teesside midlands, teesside and the west midlands, then, position once again then, his position is once again going to be called into question. You might get more letters of no confidence and somebody else might be Prime Minister end of the minister by the end of the summer. Mean, do think summer. I mean, do you think theres possibility that . Theres a possibility of that . There is, well, i guess there is, i mean, again, at risk of ducking the question you want to ask me, i the challenge for our i think the challenge for our party is about more than the leader. Think rishis leader. And i think rishis position difficult because position is so difficult because we split party thats we are a very split party thats just acknowledged reality. Just acknowledged that reality. I there are more unites us i think there are more unites us than us. We know where than divides us. We know where the with labour than divides us. We know where the the with labour than divides us. We know where the the liberal with labour than divides us. We know where the the liberal democrats. Bour and the liberal democrats. Nevertheless, are divided nevertheless, we are divided about approach. Take. About the approach. To take. My view should be view is that we should be leaning into that amazing coalition of voters that put us into than into power in 2019, rather than trying to rerun the 2015 election, which won us seats , election, which won us seats, just in one corner of the country, really. And in the heartlands , i think there is heartlands, i think there is a way to path to victory and to survival for our party, but it does require to us boldly and deliberately lean into that realignment and appeal to those voters in a way that, by the way, also appeals to voters in the tory heartlands like the one i represent, although there does seem of internal seem to be a bit of internal tension, even on the right of the between, say, your the party between, say, your group cons, liz group, the neo cons, and liz trusss group, pop cons. Trusss group, the pop cons. This also sort i mean, isnt this also sort of undermining quest of undermining this quest to unite right if the right unite the right if the right itself cant even be united within conservative party within the conservative party are as many listen, there are as many conservatisms are conservatisms as there are conservatives and we all have slight differences of emphasis. I i think in fact, a lot i mean, i think in fact, a lot of what liz says, i would agree with a lot of what suella or others on the right say. I agree with we have a particular agenda. Were all elected since with we have a particular age brexitiere all elected since with we have a particular age brexit referendum ted since with we have a particular age brexit referendum. Ad since with we have a particular age brexit referendum. Weince with we have a particular age brexit referendum. We all; the brexit referendum. We all stand brexit. Say for stand for brexit. And i say for this realignment, i think its okay to have lots of different groupings. We all know the real problem, which threat of problem, which is the threat of laboun problem, which is the threat of labour. Think were all labour. I think were all committed fighting them. And committed to fighting them. And but and its not just about uniting the right. Were in more agreement than we are with the other wing of party. But other wing of our party. But even i think, all recognise even they i think, all recognise we have a genuine problem which is not the fact that were losing voters to labour. Its the problem is were losing voters reform the stay voters to reform and to the stay at the people who dont at home. The people who dont want vote for anybody. And want to vote for anybody. And were campaigning we were all out campaigning and we all the whole time all get this. The whole time on the doorstep our high the doorstep and in our high streets, people i, streets, which is people say i, they you, the they might say, i like you, the candidate. Preferred candidate. Im always preferred to conservative. Cant vote to conservative. I cant vote for this time because i for you this time because i dont what you for. Dont know what you stand for. And just we have an and i just think we have an opportunity because reality and i just think we have an opwe tunity because reality and i just think we have an opwe do ity because reality and i just think we have an opwe do stand ause reality and i just think we have an opwe do stand aussomethingty is we do stand for something very, and i think very, very coherent and i think attractive public. An attractive to the public. An agenda defence, on tax , on agenda on defence, on tax, on crime and on these questions around the culture that i think is where the country is. And actually, i think the pm is communications. There is a problem with communication. Mean, are you saying i mean, are you saying because i think this an because i think this is an interesting premise, think interesting premise, i think its for its an interesting premise for people watching listening to people watching and listening to this of this this show to be of this mentality, the mentality, i want to punish the tories. Betrayed , i think tories. I feel betrayed, i think theyve betrayed us and our trust because theyre not the conservatives that we voted for. Some of their policies seem thoroughly unconservative, so i dont want them. But equally, dont want them. But equally, i dont want them. But equally, i do agree that labour would be even worse. Okay, it is a problem. So thats a massive problem. So thats a massive problem. So thats a massive problem. So are you saying that this problem of the prime this is a problem of the Prime Minister communicating minister not communicating a conservative vision . Or are you saying a problem of the saying its a problem of the prime because hes not Prime Minister because hes not right wing or it both . Well, i think its a problem of the party a whole. We are of the party as a whole. We are divided on way ahead. By divided on the way ahead. And by the mean, i dont want to the way, i mean, i dont want to make for our make excuses for our party because i, being quite because i, im being quite critical record in critical of, of our record in many ways. But i do think there are of that we can are lots of things that we can point in which we certainly point to in which we certainly have made right calls and have made the right calls and certainly a better certainly have made a better fist it than labour would fist of it than labour would have i think have done. So i dont think we have done. So i dont think we have totally ashamed have to be totally ashamed of our way that many our record in the way that many people so say that we people accuse us, so say that we should and do think the should be. And i do think the way is to recognise way forward is to recognise where the essential bulk of the voters need to win voters who who we need to win are there. The people who voted for they are for us in 2019, they are patriotic have patriotic people who have a common approach life. Common sense approach to life. They government to they want a government to support and get out of support them and get out of their way. Be, not to be their way. Not to be, not to be standing in their way. And theres a whole of policy theres a whole bunch of policy agendas we are now doing agendas that we are now doing on welfare, really welfare, for instance, really important down important reforms coming down the on that. Like to the line on that. Id like to see investing savings in see us investing savings in defence. Theres a clear defence. I think theres a clear dividing about dividing line with labour about our attitude to our National Defence forces. So defence and our armed forces. So i think we can do it. But there is a big challenge and it is, im afraid to say, because too many way many people think that the way to is to sort of to govern is just to sort of maintain the status quo. The times radicalism. Times call for radicalism. Okay. So radicalism would be changing. Who changing. Leader. Well, who would a betterjob . Would do a betterjob . I mean, sunak well, i mean, rishi sunak rather, as say about the met, rather, as i say about the met, camilla, its just about the camilla, its not just about the it leadership, isnt it is about leadership, isnt it . About leadership it . It is about your leadership getting what from rishi getting what you want from rishi sunak. Listen, the rishi sunak. Well, listen, the rishi im is caught between is im afraid is caught between is trying to lead a party which doesnt want him to do what i think he would like to do himself. But a better politician would show courage and communicate a really clear, conservative vision. What the best thing to do would for all to unite would be for us all to unite around agenda that is around the agenda that is necessary, that agenda is necessary, and that agenda is around 2019 coalition. Around the 2019 voter coalition. Its being tough on its about being tough on defence, tough securing our borders, decent and compassionate, by the way, as well. A big part of this agenda in my mind, is about investing in my mind, is about investing in those local institutions, supporting frontline public servants, helping most servants, helping families most of trying to do the of all who are trying to do the right thing, particularly those with children disabled with Young Children or disabled or disabled children. Theres a huge agenda around reform and supporting the most vulnerable in our society that i dont think we are able to articulate enough because of so many other things that are going but we things that are going on. But we can, can convey to both can, i think, can convey to both centrist and to those centrist voters and to those voters weve that we voters who weve lost that we are the best party for the future and that labour dont have answers really, really have the answers really, really quick question. Have the answers really, really quinecause on. Have the answers really, really quinecause were out because were running out of time, unite right mean. Time, does unite the right mean. Perhaps the future perhaps you in the future working somebody like nigel farage . Well, listen, i think nigel well, listen, i think nigel is of conservative is part of the conservative family what family more broadly what his actual others. Actual role in it is for others. But mean, i personally but yeah, i mean, i personally have problem with him and have no problem with him and i think he should be part of think that he should be part of the story, but it has to the future story, but it has to be done way that holds our be done in a way that holds our our fractured coalition together. Thank very indeed thank you very much indeed for this morning, thank you very much indeed for kruger. This morning, thank you very much indeed for kruger. This mo up1g, thank you very much indeed for kruger. This mo up next, thank you very much indeed for going gen this mo up next, thank you very much indeed for going to n this mo up next, thank you very much indeed for going to be 1is mo up next, thank you very much indeed for going to be joined up next, im going to be joined by the former labour and current former labour mp and current independent the independent advisor to the government violence government on Political Violence and disruption. Is sir mark rowleys in jeopardy . After rowleys job in jeopardy . After repeated complaints about how the policing the the met has been policing the pro palestinian marches. Dont go welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show on gb news. Now were speaking about this all morning, but lets just kind of go back on exactly what has happened with the situation with this man and the this openly jewish man and the met police. So in the last few days, of course, the met police has been heavily criticised, and that was following threat and that was following a threat and threat arrest gideon falter, threat to arrest gideon falter, the executive of the the chief executive of the campaign against anti semitism, after walked near a after he walked near a pro palestinian protest wearing a skull cap. So lets just remind ourselves what one particular officer actually said to him. You are quite openly jewish. This is a pro palestinian march, right . Im not accusing you of anything, but im worried about the reaction to your presence. The reaction to your presence. And if that wasnt bad enough, then this happened. Do enough, then this happened. Do you know the people here now walking out of this area . So go about your business, go where you like freely, or if you choose to remain here because you breach of you are causing a breach of these. If i remain here, you these. If i remain here, you will arrest zigi is antagonising a large group of people that we cant deal with. All of them. If they attack you or they. They cause your presence or antagonism. Antagonism. Well, to discuss all this, im joined now by the former labour mp and independent advisor to the government on Political Violence and disruption. Lord walney, lovely to see you this morning, john, if you dont mind me calling you that, thats how we know each that, as thats how we know each other personally, absolutely. Should the metropolitan Police Commissioner, sir mark rowley, go commissioner, sir mark rowley, 9 commissioner, sir mark rowley, go , theres been calls for his go, theres been calls for his resignation by Suella Braverman. Just spoken to danny kruger in the studio. He doesnt have confidence him. I asked confidence in him. I asked Claire Coutinho, the Energy Secretary Climate Change secretary and Climate Change minister, whether she had confidence in him. She couldnt give me affirmative. John, give me an affirmative. John, what you think . What do you think . I dont think hes going to 90, i dont think hes going to go, and on balance, i dont think he should. I mean, i think sir mark rowley is, is an intelligent man who is deeply committed to getting. Right, what is a difficult situation. But lets be clear. The met is has too often in recent months not got it right. And what you saw on the screens there was one of the most egregious examples , of the most egregious examples, i think, of not getting the balance. I have of sympathy, of course, with the difficult job that Police Officers have to do to try to keep order and, and, and maintain policing on, on these marches where there is clearly a threat of, of things spilling , clearly a threat of, of things spilling, spinning out of control. But, i mean, its it felt clearly the officer didnt mean it like that, but it feels deeply sinister to be telling a jewish man that he he he looks he looks too openly jewish to be stood on a street at a particular time and that he is going to get arrested for that. Thats not okay. And it and it gives the lie, of course, to this. What has always seemed a fairly incredulous claim that these marches are peaceful , that these marches are peaceful, that its fine to walk around, for jews to walk around Central London. Theres no sense of threat. Now, there are some jewish people on the marches, of course, but the experience of the vast of jewish the vast majority of jewish people in the capital and in other cities where these marches are happening is that these are threatening events. And, theyve been told for months now that theyre just making it up by many people that its absolutely its actually fine now that showed that its not fine. And thatis showed that its not fine. And that is not a situation that we should be prepared to accept. And i think there is another question mark there. Therefore, over over over the way over the med, over over the way that they have sought to, police this these marches and ive not been open to the argument so far that actually there is a cumulative sense of threat that the that the vast majority of the that the vast majority of the Jewish Community of jewish people in, in, in these cities have been having to shoulder week after week. And yet the met has not felt necessary thus far to test the new legislation to say, actually, no, enough is enough either these that these marches shouldnt be able to go on with the regularity that they currently are. I mean, i know youve said in the past that if these marches are found to intimidate jews, and i think weve just seen very clear evidence of that. And clear evidence of that. And indeed, mr falter himself has given an interview to the sunday times today in which he reveals that he was called scum and a nazi , and he was the one nazi, and he was the one threatened with arrest and not those were shouting these those who were shouting these abusive him. Then abusive terms at him. Then somethings gone wrong. So do you think there needs to be new legislation, or do you just think that the police is not adequately using the powers that it has . It has . Well, thats the key question. And its not entirely clear because of the way the new strengthened public order legislation has been drafted. And in the review that i am, has beenin and in the review that i am, has been in draft form in, it going around whitehall for a few months and is about to be formally submitted to the Prime Minister and the home secretary. The point ill be making in that is that really the police for us to get clarity on this, the new legislation needs to be tested and the only way it can currently be tested, be tested is if the police try to use it in a more proactive way than they are at the moment. And in those circumstances , you can those circumstances, you can imagine there will be a legal challenge from perhaps, protest organisers that are being told that cant go ahead on that they cant go ahead on a particular date and then youll be able to see whether that sense of cumulative harm being done to a particular part of our community, is , can be upheld community, is, can be upheld within within the legislation, if not my clear view is that it needs to be strengthened and also, really, if this lack of clarity through the police are not choosing to go forward and test the legislation , then then test the legislation, then then we are we are locked in a really unacceptable , drumbeat at the unacceptable, drumbeat at the moment where, marches are happening week after week. Theres an incredible drain on Police Resources thats going thats going on. And there are still very many jewish people who simply do not feel safe going into Central London, where the marches are on the day that they they are happening. And we saw , through the actions of saw, through the actions of gideon falter, the other day that actually, you know, that that actually, you know, that that threat is real and its not something we should tolerate. Something we should tolerate. No. And i know youre carrying out a review for the moment for the government into Political Violence. And i know youve delayed that to take into an account whats been happening in the aftermath of october the 7th, briefly, lord walney, 7th, just briefly, lord walney, i mean, wheres that review up to and presumably youre also going to be expressing concerns to government about the way that some mps have been treated, some of these out there of these protests out there outside their im outside their homes. Im thinking tobias ellwood. Thinking about tobias ellwood. Im wes streeting im thinking about wes streeting office being targeted. Of office being targeted. Im of course, about mike course, thinking about mike freer being forced to stand down as the mp for Golders Green in the surrounding area because he feels intimidated trying to feels so intimidated trying to do his job. Yeah. Its appalling. So in process terms, ive been refining the recommendations and the and the, my engagement with, with Civil Servants and, and others in with the review in draft form over the last couple of months has been really has been really helpful. Ive been going through a legal process, as you can imagine, and its and it is due be submitted it is due to be submitted formally to the pm and the home secretary imminently. So were almost and im very much secretary imminently. So were almost that and im very much secretary imminently. So were almost that itand im very much secretary imminently. So were almost that it couldm very much secretary imminently. So were almost that it could be iery much hoping that it could be published, almost instantly or very soon after its been submitted. And yet a big part of the of the review is looking at what is happening to our democratic process and, and the way in which mps are being targeted in, in, in my view, a completely unacceptable way. There is no reason why mps should be vie, should be being targeted at homes and their family being, often being intimidated through that. I think there is also and, and i think there is also and, and i think there is also and, and i think the legislation exists at the moment for the police to be tackling that. There is a, i tackling that. There is a, i think theres another question oven think theres another question over, over mps offices where i think that the, the, the manner of protest can, can often clearly be designed to intimidate rather than actually be changing peoples minds and i dont think we should we should be accepting that we i think we need to we need money. Yes. Sorry to interrupt you there. I just very quickly i think we need to reset our thinking and actually be more proud of protecting and celebrating our parliamentary democracy than we are this country at present. Are in this country at present. Absolutely. Lord walney or john woodcock, as i know you better. Thank you very much indeed for insight this indeed for your insight this morning, metropolitan morning, a metropolitan Police Spokesman aware of spokesman said we are aware of this video and fully acknowledge the worry it has caused not only to those featured, but also anyone watches it and will anyone who watches it and will review the circumstances. We have always said we have always said that we recognise the conflict between israel and hamas continues be israel and hamas continues to be an issue of concern for many londoners, this includes the londoners, and this includes the regular protests and marches in Central London. Everyone has the right to travel throughout the capital in safety. Well thank you to lord warner for that. In just a moment. Im going to be speaking to the sunday timess chief political commentator, tim shipman. Be to talk shipman. Hell be here to talk about latest which about his latest book, which examines british, british politics during the rise and fall Prime Minister fall of which Prime Minister theresa go this welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show on gb news. Im delighted to be joined now by tim shipman, the chief political commentator of the sunday times. A former colleague of mine back in day, we worked together in the day, we worked together at the sunday express, didnt we, just young we, when we were just young whippersnappers, and whippersnappers, i know, and look at us now. Look at you. Youre clever author. Youre a big, clever author. Well, how many well, look at you. How many books . This is the latest in books . And this is the latest in youn books . And this is the latest in your. Well i thought it was a trilogy. Was going to be trilogy. It was going to be a trilogy. It was going to be a trilogy. And now its a quartette. Way. Quartette. Yes. No way. They call it. Oh, i lg as they call it. Oh, i love that. Lg as they call it. Oh, i lowyeah,. Lg as they call it. Oh, i lowyeah, its , it could also yeah, its, it could also double a weapon. Its double up as a weapon. Its a hefty tome. And you basically decided that one book wasnt enough cover may to enough to cover theresa may to rishi sunak , which is understandable. Exactly. Its taken seven years, 1400 pages. Now two years, 1400 pages. Its now two books the backstop to boris. Love that. Now, lets talk about theresa may. First of all, i mean a little bit forgotten at the moment with everything going on, how would you rate the premiership of theresa may . Tim i mean, hugely tim i mean, not hugely highly. The highly. If you read the conclusion. No, look, i mean, it conclusion. No, look, i mean, it is history book, but at the is a history book, but at the same time , a lot of what same time, a lot of what happened kind of still happened in it is kind of still shaping events now than the original that boris original brexit deal that Boris Johnson kind of johnson signed, which is kind of still us, was 95 theresa still with us, was 95 theresa mays work and Oliver Robins work sort catastrophic work, the sort of catastrophic fallings the conservative fallings out in the conservative party, which were all happening then. Theyre still with us now. Then. Theyre still with us now. Yeah, some things never change. Never change. And some things never change. And its. Yeah. What the theresa may its. Yeah. What the theresa may years give i think, is years give us, i think, is a sort of model almost how not sort of model of almost how not to the premiership. Yes. To do the premiership. Yes. Im going to come up with a deal behind everyones back. Im not going to tell the brexit secretary david davis about it. Im to present it at im then going to present it at chequers and prompt flurry, a chequers and prompt a flurry, a prompt, flurry resignations prompt, a flurry of resignations that tearful that then leads to my tearful demise downing street. Demise outside downing street. Yeah, thats broadly it. You know, ive and you know, ive interviewed 260 odd people for this book, and everybody who was in a room with theresa may ministers members of her own cabinet, mps, people who were on her own staff, people in brussels, not one of them could say with any great clarity or determination, what she was really thinking while they were talking to her. And she sort of, you good leadership is you know, good leadership is about knowing where youre trying to go, working out a clever way of getting there, and then able tell then being able to tell everybody else you. And she everybody else with you. And she seems to have on seems to me to have failed on all three those counts and, all three of those counts and, and people and all the people whove replaced have failed replaced her since have failed on one of those counts. Yes. Well, lets get on to the people who have her. People who have replaced her. Who respect who the greatest respect for theresa almost theresa may are almost more interesting of interesting than her sort of chapter in tale. Although chapter in this tale. Although its really , that we that its funny really, that we that seems so distanced it seems so distanced when it consumes much of our lives at consumes so much of our lives at the time. The brexit wars between 2016 2019 were so between 2016 and 2019 were so agonising. And i remember, im agonising. And i remember, im sure you were at that downing street drinks in 2019, after bofis street drinks in 2019, after Boris Johnson had won that convincing victory, convincing on two fronts for him, but also the evisceration of corbyn. And were all having a drink that christmas going, well , were all having a drink that christmas going, well, were christmas going, oh well, were in quiet time. Covid in for a nice quiet time. Covid hits. I know you always had a good relationship, both with bofis good relationship, both with Boris Johnson and indeed Dominic Cummings. Lets into the cummings. Lets get into the truth this , because nadine truth of this, because Nadine Dorries was in last week sort of talking plot and talking about the plot and talking about the plot and talking michael gove and talking about michael gove and the the so called the dynamics of the so called cabal that she claims brought bofis cabal that she claims brought Boris Johnson what really Boris Johnson down. What really did bring Boris Johnson down . Well, look, Dominic Cummings will tell you that he brought down, Boris Johnson. And anyone down, Boris Johnson. And anyone who reads book four, which is out in june, will see a lot more detail on that than i think weve before, but i also weve had before, but i also remember a great quote a remember a great quote by a minister the week boris minister the week that boris left downing street, who said bofis left downing street, who said Boris Johnson is the third Prime Minister in a row to have been brought down johnson. Brought down by Boris Johnson. So faults so there were sort of faults on both yeah. Look, the one both sides. Yeah. Look, the one time politics was done properly in country, was in the in this country, was in the second half of 2019 where those two men together knew exactly what they were trying to achieve and set with a plan to and set out with a plan to achieve it, and despite all the shenanigans wed seen in parliament which this parliament which populate this book, were able to push it book, they were able to push it through and win a big majority. But those two were already at each others throats by the january of 2020, even before brexit had happened at the end of covid of that month. And when covid hit, then out hit, they then fell out spectacularly the whole spectacularly and the whole government boris government fell apart. And Boris Johnson, having given huge amounts of power to Dominic Cummings, then, didnt want another aide to the same another aide to have the same kind dominance and sort of kind of dominance and sort of say him. And so the teams say over him. And so the teams that followed were not terribly effective. Johnson was effective. Boris johnson was a great campaigner, a great politician lots of ways, but politician in lots of ways, but he wasnt a great governor, and he wasnt a great governor, and he had these, these ideas and he didnt follow through on them. And ultimately his premiership was a of missed was a sort of missed opportunity, i think, the opportunity, i think, for the conservative party and a bit like sort of like Margaret Thatcher sort of had a shadow over the tories for two thereafter. It looks two decades thereafter. It looks at the moment like the shadow of bofis at the moment like the shadow of Boris Johnson and the debate about should he have been removed or what was he going to achieve, is going to take the tories up a cul de sac for several more years to come . Think he will stage do you think he will stage a cincinnati style comeback, and when hell do it . When do you think hell do it . Look, the people around well, look, the people around him say, look the him would say, look at the moment making of moment hes making lots of money. Hes very passionate about doing about ukraine. Hes off doing things. Interested in, hes things. Hes interested in, hes in no rush to return. I think the scenario in which they imagine that might become a possibility , he is not sort of possibility, he is not sort of straight after the general election or even before it. But if you get a new leader in who tries for two years, either from the one nation wing or from, you know, much further to the right, we all assume it will be someone further to right that will take over after the election. If that person is failing 18 months, two years down the line, the clarion calls at that point for wheres the guy who won us some elections is, thats the moment where, if it is at all possible that it looks like thats the sort of window of opportunity and that he could come back in and that he could come back in and try and take on starmer , you and try and take on starmer, you know, at an election in five years time. And one of the reasons Boris Johnson fell, i think, he just didnt think, is that he just didnt rate starmer. He was about rate keir starmer. He was about six points behind. Always six points behind. He always told remember i told people remember when i started for was started running for mayor, i was 17 behind Ken Livingstone 17 points behind Ken Livingstone and i beat him, he thought six points behind, given what had happened, was sort of 15 points ahead. Really, in the current context, he couldnt conceive of not beating keir starmer, who he didnt rate at and he didnt rate at all, and he assumed everybody else would conclude the same his own conclude the same in his own party. Course, they party. And of course, they didnt. Another didnt. And thats another of the with us the reasons why hes not with us anyi mean, if did sort of i mean, if he did sort of stage the comeback a bit later on, whos pick for on, who whos your pick for interim party leader . Because we know rishi sunak wont be know that rishi sunak wont be hanging around if the result of the is as bad the general election is as bad as pollsters predict. As the pollsters predict. Indeed, i ask you that, indeed, before i ask you that, actually, in actually, do you think hes in jeopardy after may elections . I think potentially, yes. Hes talking about potentially trying election to trying to call an election to trying to call an election to try and stave that off. Look, there are lots of people who dont want rishi sunak to lead their party into a general election. They come from lots of different sort factions in different sort of factions in the party. I think at the moment the party. I think at the moment the plot, such as it is, isnt yet kind of got enough support yet kind of got enough support or pretty . Do you buy that . Well, what about badenoch . What well, what about badenoch . What about suella . Look, i think Kemi Badenoch , look, i think Kemi Badenoch, has been the favourite for long enough that everybody is now sniping at her and saying why she be the favourite. She shouldnt be the favourite. Yeah, priti patel has yeah, i think priti patel has been quite clever the been quite clever behind the scenes, shes still popular with the sort of eurosceptic. Right. But has kept her nose clean. Shes not associated with the sunak part of the government at all, which even Suella Braverman was degree , and i think was to a degree, and i think shes quite clever at not shes been quite clever at not joining some of the pylons of sunak. Shes been a little bit more loyal. So some in the sort of one nation e wing of the party might be, might regard her as more palatable than, than suella think suella Suella Braverman. I think suella is will have a hard core of support. But whether its big support. But whether its big enough to get past all the others , i dont know. I mean, others, i dont know. I mean, Penny Mordaunt remains the most likely alternative to one of those ladies on the right, i think, because shes to a large degree even now, a bit of a blank slate and if people can wish what they want onto her, i know, that might part of know, but that might be part of the problem. Know, but that might be part of the well,em. Know, but that might be part of the well, people dont what well, people dont know what she either. Well and she stands for either. Well and that be the argument that will be the argument against and but, you know, against her, and but, you know, weve briefing some of weve seen briefing from some of the people , you know, the the people, you know, the plotters well, maybe plotters who say, well, maybe shes answer. I think some shes the answer. I think some of those would like her to take oven of those would like her to take over, the election, and over, lose the election, and then pave over, lose the election, and the|way pave over, lose the election, and the|way for pave over, lose the election, and the|way for good pave over, lose the election, and the|way for good in pave over, lose the election, and the|way for good in opposition� the way for good in opposition because good at. Because shes so good at. Shes shes good well, look, shes shes good at despatch box and shes a at the despatch box and shes a good campaigner, but shes one of politicians who, you of those politicians who, you know, of know, you see over a number of years often years and really, however often you see them, youre still a little unsure as to what it is that really motivates them, lets spend the final two minutes on rishi sunak, because youve written a piece in the sunday times today to accompany the publication of book. The publication of the book. We are basically modern are basically accusing modern politicians are basically accusing modern po politics, and think we can at politics, and i think we can both hard working, both agree hes hard working, hes hes a good bloke hes diligent, hes a good bloke , all of those things. But is he a good politician . I mean, i dont think that hes proven that he is. And theres quite a lot of evidence. Is he fact a terrible is he in fact a terrible politician . A good person. That would argument of that would be the argument of quite large number of his mps. That would be the argument of qthink large number of his mps. That would be the argument of qthink when number of his mps. That would be the argument of qthink when he mber of his mps. That would be the argument of qthink when he cameof his mps. That would be the argument of qthink when he came in,1is mps. That would be the argument of qthink when he came in, he mps. I think when he came in, he tried to settle things down and that quite sensible. That looked quite sensible. He got for, getting got a lot of credit for, getting his down. You know, the his head down. You know, the windsor deal he did on brexit would not have appealed to all mps, all viewers of your channel. But it as a sort of serious piece of, you know, kind of dedicated work in the weeds. It was quite impressive in its way, but since then, you know, hes veered from one, you know, when things didnt start working out and the polls didnt narrow, he lost nerve bit , out and the polls didnt narrow, he lost nerve bit, and he lost his nerve a bit, and hes from one strategy to hes veered from one strategy to another kind of desperate another in a kind of desperate search for something that works. And doesnt have and he doesnt seem to have found and you know, think found it. And you know, i think hes certainly the where hes certainly lacking the where are we going . And i think what mps want to see is a sense of telling the country where were going, you there were going, you know, if there were another five years of rishi sunak, it all mean . Sunak, what would it all mean . And knew what and i think if he ever knew what that dont hes that was, i dont think hes communicated effectively communicated that effectively to the final shippers, general final q shippers, general election prediction, please. Are we talking supermajority we talking about a supermajority for labour . Just a majority, maybe a Hung Parliament . What are you thinking . Well, look, if you take, history and the focus groups that say that keir starmer, is still hasnt persuaded the pubuc still hasnt persuaded the public the natural kind of feeling of where political gravity ought to settle is a decent but not enormous labour majority. But this government is making it a lot easier for keir starmer than that. And while everyone says political gravity will reassert itself and things will reassert itself and things will narrow , it hasnt yet. And will narrow, it hasnt yet. And if we carry on remotely like this , then its going to be this, then its going to be a pretty stonking majority. Actually. I have one more question. Nigel farage is his future here i have one more question. Ni in. Farage is his future here i have one more question. Ni in america s his future here i have one more question. Ni in america . His future here or in america . I think it, could be here. I think hes interested in realigning the right here. I would be surprised if he puts his head above the parapet and goes back and leads the reform party. I think far more party. I think hes far more interested what happens after party. I think hes far more integeneral what happens after party. I think hes far more inte general election, ppens after party. I think hes far more inte general election, where after party. I think hes far more inte general election, where your the general election, where you might mps joining the general election, where you might or mps joining the general election, where you might or him mps joining the general election, where you might or him rejoining|ing the general election, where you might or him rejoining the reform or him rejoining the conservative Party Charter would be a fine thing. But then nothing would surprise me after weve surprise me after what weve witnessed. And you started witnessed. And you first started writing this is writing these books and this is the latest one out now. All well, its praised for all out war on the back. But this one, of is called way out. Of course is called no way out. And the next one is called out out, which both brexit and the next one is called out out,three| both brexit and the next one is called out out,three prime both brexit and the next one is called out out,three Prime Ministers. Xit and the next one is called out out,three Prime Ministers. Love and three Prime Ministers. Love that. Thank that. Tim shipman, thank you very indeed joining me very much indeed forjoining me this lovely see you this morning. Lovely to see you reunited. Express reunited. Sunday express reunited. Sunday express reunited gb which is reunited on gb news, which is always now after this, im always good. Now after this, im going speaking the going to be speaking to the former and former prison governor and author new author Ian Aitchison. His new book, examines the dire book, screwed, examines the dire state britains prisons just state of britains prisons just how screwed is our system . Dont go anywhere welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show on gb news im joined now by professor Ian Aitchison, a former prison officer and governor and author officer and governor and author of a new book, screwed britains pfison of a new book, screwed britains prison crisis and how to escape it. Lovely to see you this morning, professor. How big is this crisis . This crisis . Hi, camilla, its very big. Is the simple answer, i was listening to your previous interview with with tim ship, and my books are about a third of his size, but about minus more swearing in it because, its hard to avoid , basically, its hard to avoid, basically, what are we talking about here, in essence , its a its a in essence, its a its a collision of three interrelated catastrophe. These that have catastrophe. These that have made the whole system screwed. First of all, overcrowding. First of all, overcrowding. Were locking up far too many offenders, in far too few places for the good that we can do them orindeed for the good that we can do them or indeed society or future victims. We cannot build our way fast enough out of this crisis because of sentencing and because of sentencing and because of sentencing and because of covid backlogs. Now being, you know, eaten into the system is running red hot in terms of capacity. Its about running about 99, and its forced the, current lord chancellor, alex chalk, to start releasing prisoners earlier and earlier from their sentences in order to try to create just a bit of desperate headroom to stay ahead. That is unsustainable. And its also unjust. Second issue, understaffing , this was made in understaffing, this was made in number 11 in 2010 during the coalition government, by the, you know, criminally stupid , you know, criminally stupid, Austerity Program for the criminal justice system. And it criminal justice system. And it was executed by whitehall. So between 2010 and 2016, where the prison population stayed around about the same 84,000, there was about the same 84,000, there was a 26 reduction in frontline prison officers. So all of the experience, thousands of years of experience, was driven out really quickly. And as should have been totally foreseeable and predictable by the people in charge of the system, every metric of decency, of order and safety went into the skip. And safety went into the skip. And now, fast forward to 2024. There was no humility. There was just was no humility. There was just a kind of i think liz truss started it. To give her some credit, an emergency recruitment bums on seats, hastily trained, very poorly equipped teenagers thrown into the maw of what . You know, the Prison Officers Union say is one of the most hostile working environments in europe, leaving almost as fast as they can be recruited. And were still 10 down in in prison. Officer figures on that, 20, 2010 figure. And weve got 4000 more prisoners and going steadily upwards. The third steadily upwards. The third issue is related to the first two, and that is a corporate failure. Weve got a prison failure. Weve got a Prison Service headquarters with over 5500 people working there, apparently accountable for prisons where they cant scrape enough, people together to run, education, to run workshops, to run offending behaviour programmes , and to fundamentally programmes, and to fundamentally keep themselves and prisoners safe. A prison officer is assaulted on average now, once an hour, every hour, every day, every week. Weve had, a prison officer recently just taken off a ventilator after being so seriously assaulted in hmp whitemoor, one of our high Security Prisons , that that he Security Prisons, that that he was in a coma. Thankfully, now hes recovering, thats one of our high Security Prisons that the chief inspector of prisons visited last year and said it was one of the filthiest that hed ever inspected. And my simple point is about this gigantic bureaucracy of monitoring that fails all the time. If you cannot get the bins emptied in a place like whitemoor Holding Dozens of terrorists holding, you know, some of the biggest risk in western europe, what else is going on . And these people have been, you know, remote , theyve been, you know, remote, theyve been, you know, remote, theyve been inaccessible, theyve been detached from the front line. Detached from the front line. They proliferate a bureaucracy that squats on top of prison governors and their staff, and they make life the mission of rehabilitating people. And just even keeping people safe, which is foundational to everything else. Hopeful. Impossible. Hence, yes , another theme of the book. I mean, youve raised the reasons for it there, but obviously a void is created, not least when theres this sense that the prisoners are in charge and the guards arent. You and the guards arent. You raise, warnings about the rise of islamic extremism and indeed, neo nazi extremism behind bars. How concerning is that and what evidence have you seen of that, professor . Well, i was asked by the government to investigate islamist extremism in prisons, probation and the youth justice, system back in 2016. And, you know, a lot of the concerns i raised then i think, unfortunately, are still valid. Unfortunately, are still valid. Has there been progress . Yes, there has, mostly because that progress was forced on the pfison progress was forced on the Prison Service. Who believed in a deranged way that they were world class at dealing with, with extremism. Before my report came in, so there have been some, some policy improvements there. But on the front line, there. But on the front line, you still have in our high Security Prisons , a constant and Security Prisons, a constant and unrelenting struggle for power and control, which is disfiguring relationships between staff and prisoners and which is threatening National Security because unfortunately, as we have seen, on numerous occasions now, people are terrorists. Go into our prisons and they spend sometimes years there. And some of them, like, you know, the case of usman khan, who went on to murder two kids at a rehabilitation, celebration, grotesquely , back celebration, grotesquely, back in 2019, come out worse than when they went in and one of the things that im im worried about with two things, basically in relation to that, is, first of that , we are quite of all, that, we are quite close, i think still, to seeing the, the murder of a prison officer. On duty by a terrorist. Thatis officer. On duty by a terrorist. That is a perfectly rational thing to do , particularly if thing to do, particularly if youre an islamist extremist and youve been locked up to a plot thats been detected upstream. So you failed in your mission, and you have a completely oppositional view of the state, and youve got vulnerable and available targets around. And in 2020, in whitemoor again, they came within seconds and millimetres of, of doing just that. Thats a problem. Okay so its rational. Also just to finish the point for the growing number of neo fascist neo nazi prisoners in custody to look at what islamists are doing and to try to compete with them. And were beginning to start to see that as well. Very worrying. Okay professor aitchison, thank you very much indeed for your insights and if anyone wants to read that book, its screwed. And its out now about the british prison system. Well, ill next sunday at 9. 3. Ill be back next sunday at 9. 3. Nought as ever. But up next, its my paper reviewer extraordinaire, michael portillo. Great. Sunday. Portillo. Have a great. Sunday. A brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Good morning. Welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. High pressure is still sticking around through the rest of today. However, we will see some patchy rain in places, particularly across parts scotland. Quite cloudy parts of scotland. Quite cloudy and damp start here this morning. The best of the sunshine across southeastern parts england, northern sunshine across southeastern parts and|land, northern sunshine across southeastern parts and westernyrthern sunshine across southeastern parts and western scotland, so ireland and western scotland, so a good day if youre running the London Marathon with light London Marathon with a light northwesterly but northwesterly breeze, but generally through generally staying dry through much that cloud much of the day, that cloud and rain eastern parts of rain across eastern parts of scotland will slowly sink its way southwards. Go through way southwards. As we go through the the day, and feeling the rest of the day, and feeling quite under cloud quite chilly under that cloud and well. Struggling quite chilly under that cloud and the well. Struggling quite chilly under that cloud and the double struggling quite chilly under that cloud and the double figuresing quite chilly under that cloud and the double figures across reach the double figures across the coast, feeling the north sea coast, but feeling much pleasant in that much more pleasant in that sunshine. South. Highs much more pleasant in that su141ine. South. Highs much more pleasant in that su 14 ore. South. Highs much more pleasant in that su 14 or 15 south. Highs much more pleasant in that su 14 or 15 degrees outh. Highs much more pleasant in that su 14 or 15 degrees throughjhs much more pleasant in that su 14 or 15 degrees through the of 14 or 15 degrees through the rest of sunday. That cloud continues to spread its way southwards, reaching parts of northern ireland, Northern England and of wales england and parts of wales overnight and into the early hours monday hours of monday morning. Southeastern england, southeastern parts of england, though perhaps holding though perhaps Still Holding on to clearer skies. To some of those clearer skies. And for northern ireland, two and quhe and for northern ireland, two and quite under and turning quite chilly under those again, we those clear skies again, we could frost in places, could see some frost in places, although quite cold although not quite as cold under that cloud rain, parts that cloud and rain, and parts of holding into the of Scotland Holding up into the high figures. So bit of high single figures. So a bit of a cloudier start for most of us high single figures. So a bit of a cmonday. Tart for most of us high single figures. So a bit of a cmonday. Cloud most of us high single figures. So a bit of a cmonday. Cloud and st of us high single figures. So a bit of a cmonday. Cloud and rain us high single figures. So a bit of a cmonday. Cloud and rain again on monday. Cloud and rain again continues to spread way continues to spread its way southwards day , southwards through the day, southwards through the day, south eastern of england south eastern parts of england still to some Still Holding on to some of those skies. So those clearer skies. So some sunshine we through the sunshine as we go through the morning, definitely turning morning, but definitely turning cloudier as cloudier into the afternoon as well. Little bit well. Feeling a little bit warmer, particularly across parts of scotland on monday. Could highs of 1516 degrees could see highs of 1516 degrees but chillier under but feeling chillier again under all rain. All that cloud and rain. Looks like things are heating up. Boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news as i good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. Fair daffodils. We weep to see you haste away so soon. But as the spring continues. There will the spring continues. There will be no wilting in this studio. My Political Panel will be robust in discussing what freedom means. The house of commons has voted to ban smoking and a prohibition on smacking children is being considered by politicians. What considered by politicians. What should be the limits to the nanny state . Local authorities in brussels sprouted authoritarian powers last week as police