Before all of that, lets get the news with Polly Middlehurst i nigel, thank you. Good nigel, thank you. Good evening. Well, the bank of england has left its Interest Rate unchanged at 5. 25. Our economics and Business EditorLiam Halligan has more. After 14 successive rate rises from 0. 1 at the end of 2001, all the way up to 5. 25, the bank of england has finally decided enough is enough and inflation is now coming down and theres no need for now, at least to raise rates any more. This will be a huge relief to young families with variable rate mortgages. It will be a huge relief to companies with variable rate loans. It will be a huge relief to many consumers. Savers across the country who Liam Halligan there . Well, the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, said despite the banks decision , britain is banks decision, britain is worse off under the conservatives. Conservatives. I think there will be a sense of relief, particularly for those who are coming up to the end of their mortgage deals. But lets look at where we are in the Bigger Picture because somebody coming up to remove mortgage their house today is looking at paying £220 more a month than they would have done if they had a remortgaged a year ago. So this is still a very challenging time for families and businesses with the cost of living crisis, which continues to bite. Well borrowers may start to feel the benefits of the bank of englands announcement shortly after it was made nationwide said it will be cutting the majority of its fixed rate mortgages. Fixed rate mortgages. The countrys biggest Building Society , saying theyll Building Society, saying theyll now offer five and ten year fixed rate mortgages of below 5 for First Time Buyers and home movers is away from the economy , the Prime Minister says hard pressed families shouldnt have to pay an unaffordable price for the uk to reach net zero. But the uk to reach net zero. But the shadow minister for industry and decarbonisation, sarah jones, said the governments plan to roll back some Climate Policies is the wrong decision. Policies is the wrong decision. Rishi sunak hit back, saying he wont proceed with plans that would punish motorists and working people. Weve been through the numbers and were absolutely confident that we are on track to hit all our international and domestic which by the domestic targets, which by the way, world leading and the way, are world leading and the reason i have confidence in that is overdelivered reason i have confidence in that is all overdelivered reason i have confidence in that is all of overdelivered reason i have confidence in that is all of our overdelivered reason i have confidence in that is all of our carbonerdelivered reason i have confidence in that is all of our carbon budgetsed reason i have confidence in that is all of our carbon budgets to on all of our carbon budgets to date, everyone saying, date, despite everyone saying, oh, might not hit them. Oh, you might not hit them. Weve delivered them. Weve over delivered on them. Plus see that the costs plus we can see that the costs of some these new of some of these new technologies falling far technologies are falling far faster than people had predicted. Wind is predicted. Offshore wind is a great example that cost. Great example of that cost. Today 70 than predicted today 70 less than we predicted in 2016. And lastly, the king has paid tribute to what hes called the indispensable working relationship between the United Kingdom and france on the second day of his visit, there , his day of his visit, there, his majesty and Queen Camilla spent the afternoon visiting a flower market. Despite the rain before heading to notre dame cathedral. And earlier, he became the first british monarch to speak from the Senate Chamber in paris. And he celebrated the friendship and warm familiarity between the two nations, as well as unity on issues like climate change. With gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio, and now on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news. This is britains news. Channel good evening. Well, we now have a choice. A well, we now have a choice. A gap in british politics. Thank goodness for that, because for the last six months, ive been thinking well have general thinking well have a general election between tweedledum and tweedledee therell no tweedledee and therell be no policy whatsoever. Policy differences whatsoever. But ed miliband. Yes, hes back. But ed miliband. Yes, hes back. Absolutely. In a very prominent position, saying that if labour come to power, they will bring back the 2030 deadline after which you wont be able to buy a new car that is petrol or diesel and theyre saying they do not agree with the extension out until 2035 for gas and oil boilers. Now ive no doubt well hear much more from the labour party at their conference, but its a clear piece of policy positioning. I have to say positioning. I have to say myself, i thought that the relaxation on people who use oil for their boilers was very necessary because there are 1. 7 Million People living off grid, mostly out there in rural england, many of them pensioners living in bungalows for whom the idea that they wouldnt be able to replace their oil tank, their oil burner, theyd have to get a heat pump, which would still cost them a huge amount of money. And highly inappropriate. I think that was actually one of the best things that was done yesterday. But labour set yesterday. But labour have set out stall. What all out their stall. What does all of mean for the red wall of that mean for the red wall vote . And went through the vote . And we went through the polling. We sat here polling last night. We sat here and it was clear that 2019 voters, a good solid two thirds of them thought sunak was right. So have labour position this correctly . Have labour got this right . Give me your thoughts please. Farage at gbnews. Com. Joining me matthew lazar, former head of broadcasting at the labour party, and ed miliband advisor. And now with policy network. Well i think both of us are quite refreshed. Absolutely actually a debate i know are. Youre absolutely right, nigel. I mean, its good to see a proper debate about policy and not about slices of cake or curries or, you know, what you know , now what is anything, you know, now this is interesting because professor goodwin , where you are. Absolutely. With a piece of exclusive polling and it made it clear that the comfortable urban middle classes suburbia , they middle classes suburbia, they actually rather like their electric cars and they can afford a new one. And its not really a problem at all. And they think the government should stick to the original net zero targets. But that when you get out into working class voters, when you get in particular when you get out in particular for to that group of voters , the for to that group of voters, the ones left the labour party ones that left the labour party , a lot of them came through me. Yes, absolutely. , a lot of them came through me. On , absolutely. , a lot of them came through me. On to bsolutely. , a lot of them came through me. On to boris ely. , a lot of them came through me. On to boris johnson. And you on to boris johnson. And you think about them. You think about older people, you think about older people, you think about people on low incomes. You know, theyve been really scared about many of the implications of net zero. And its a debate thats gathered steam despite very little political debate in parliament over it. And i just wonder from a labour perspective, has ed miliband put them in the right place today . Them in the right place today . Well, i think that theyve been very careful today to sort of try and have their cake and eat it by being clear on the car target. Theyre slightly fudging it on the boilers. Theyll be theyll be discussing that. Its vague. Its vague because theyll be discussing that behind doors now because behind closed doors now because thats the political worry thats where the political worry is, remind is, because lets remind ourselves cars, is about ourselves on cars, this is about people buying new cars. This isnt asking anybody to change anything. Not asking anything. Its not asking anybody to go out spend anybody to go out and spend money force people to do money to force people to do something want. Its something they dont want. Its just forcing to spend just forcing them to maybe spend their they their money on something they dont slightly dont want. But thats slightly its slightly different. And the background of background to all this, of course, know, course, is ulez, as we know, which really , really worrying which is really, really worrying the party because what the labour party because what should been a slam in should have been a slam dunk in terms of the london Mayoral Election is now a real challenge and would and a nightmare. Nobody would have that have thought a year ago that labours biggest worry politically london politically would be the london mayoral may. So Mayoral Elections next may. So things change . Absolutely. They certainly do. So as far as the red wall is concerned, yes, labour generally on the environment to travel a very environment has to travel a very careful between its two careful path between its two different groups, as it different interest groups, as it were. Weve seen that with oil and gas recently where the policy had to be a you if youre cynical, you call it a fudge, you call sensible you might call it a sensible compromise. Werent compromise. If you werent between unions between what the trade unions want, say yes to all want, which is to say yes to all oil and gas and what the environmental many environmental lobby and many of those talking those voters youre talking about want, which is stop about want, which is to stop all oil exports. Oil and gas exports. And a similar be going on similar debate will be going on today in keirs about today in keirs office about this. Funny, it . This. Its funny, isnt it . You working you know, working class voters actually all this voters actually want all this stuff or got rid of stuff relaxed or got rid of completely voters completely middle class voters quite this zero quite like all this net zero stuff. Actually stuff. The trade unions actually think what rishis done is the right thing. Some of the giant right thing. Some of the giant Global Corporates take the opposite view. I left and right. Well, i would say a slightly sort of, but i slightly disagree with on the thing. I with nigel just on the thing. I think on think the difference is that on the issue, the boilers the boilers issue, the boilers is people when is about forcing people when their breaks down to buy their boiler breaks down to buy an expensive which an expensive system, which at the think works the moment we dont think works as most it as effectively in most cases it doesin as effectively in most cases it does in cases, but not in does in some cases, but not in most cases as the existing thing. Thats a big political nightmare. Weve seen in nightmare. Weve seen it in Germany Coalition in germany where the coalition in germany where the coalition in germany collapsing. Germany where the coalition in germ on collapsing. Germany where the coalition in germ on this collapsing. Germany where the coalition in germ on this very collapsing. Germany where the coalition in germ on this very issue. Psing. Germany where the coalition in germ on this very issue. And]. Point on this very issue. And effectively got two effectively youve got two parties representing those two interests the and interests in the greens and in the traditional the spd with more traditional voters. What they what on the spd with more traditional voteunions,what they what on the spd with more traditional voteunions, thet they what on the spd with more traditional voteunions, the unionsrvhat on the spd with more traditional voteunions, the unions want n the spd with more traditional voteunions, the unions want to the unions, the unions want to keep electric to and build electric vehicle jobs in britain. So they will be backing this People Manufacturing people like manufacturing in the uk. , i mean thats but yes, i mean thats true. But equally the unions are quite happy to build petrol and diesel cars a few more. Cars for a few more. Were. But the they were. But i think the unions, like most of the industry, that ev industry, think that the ev is the want keep the future and they want to keep it global game. But i can it in the global game. But i can tell you that and were really worried red wall worried about this red wall voters of people in voters remember 40 of people in the lowest economic groups dont have can the lowest economic groups dont have car. So the one have access to a car. So the one of two theyre of those two that theyre worried is the boilers. So worried about is the boilers. So you absolutely the you can absolutely predict the labour what labour will not go back to what what the tories saying two what the tories were saying two days seriously. Days ago. Seriously. Figure. Question that figure. Maybe 40 of those that live in big cities, well, thats meant to be the the uk. The figure across the uk. 80 in cities. Its 80 in the big cities. Its 80 in the big cities. Yeah, struggle with that yeah, i struggle with that because actually if you live outside big cities, a is outside the big cities, a car is a necessity. Sometimes its only one but sometimes its only one in family, so that in the family, not two. So that that have an impact. In the family, not two. So that tha now have an impact. In the family, not two. So that tha now montreal, impact. In the family, not two. So that tha now montreal, the act. In the family, not two. So that tha now montreal, the conference now montreal, the conference in absolutely. Now montreal, the conference in with absolutely. Now montreal, the conference in with you, ilutely. Now montreal, the conference in with you, nigel. Not in im with you, nigel. Not in montreal. Organise montreal. I used to organise this conference with good old justin. Ive got a great selection me selection of photos of me and justin his selection of jazzy justin in his selection of jazzy jackets, more jackets, but there was more serious content this week. Yeah, i mean, keir starmer basically we mustnt basically saying we mustnt diverge from europe because unless with law, diverge from europe because unleslower with law, diverge from europe because unleslower standards. Law, diverge from europe because unleslower standards. Itsn, well lower standards. Its almost keir starmer is almost as if keir starmer is saying comes saying everything that comes from wonderful. Were from europe is wonderful. Were not making not capable of making environmental ourselves. Environmental law ourselves. This really was remain a talk or even almost rejoin at all. Well, i think theres no question of rejoining however well, i think theres no questiin of rejoining however well, i think theres no questiin hisrejoining however well, i think theres no questiin his heart. |g however well, i think theres no questiin his heart. Keir wever well, i think theres no questiin his heart. Keir mayer well, i think theres no questiin his heart. Keir may want much in his heart. Keir may want to his head will certainly rule that absolutely clear to his head will certainly rule that the absolutely clear to his head will certainly rule that the manifesto utely clear to his head will certainly rule that the manifesto will clear to his head will certainly rule that the manifesto will commit to rejoining because it to not rejoining because it would political suicide otherwise. Is exactly the otherwise. This is exactly the political divide we were political divide that we were just over the just talking about over the environment. The environment. Its exactly the same theres environment. Its exactly the same pressure, theres environment. Its exactly the same pressure, of theres environment. Its exactly the same pressure, of course,3res environment. Its exactly the same pressure, of course, within environment. Its exactly the sanparty;sure, of course, within environment. Its exactly the sanparty ase, of course, within environment. Its exactly the sanparty as well course, within environment. Its exactly the sanparty as well , ourse, within environment. Its exactly the sanparty as well , where,nithin environment. Its exactly the sanparty as well, where, you n the party as well, where, you know, plus of members vote know, 90 plus of members vote id to remain , in fact, probably id to remain, in fact, probably higher than that. Now, the sort of left left leavers have left alongside corbyn. So theres huge political pressure. Hes trying to walk tightrope. I trying to walk a tightrope. I think he needs to be very careful because careful on his language because the to the tories are going to weaponize, are weaponize, you know, these are the things they want the two things they want to weaponize the wall. Weaponize most in the red wall. Are they going to want to weaponize the environment and the pledges and want weaponize the environment and th if you stay aligned, its still rhino, isnt it . Yeah, well, it is. Yeah. Name only. Effectively what only. I mean effectively what they is, be clear they need to do is, is be clear what be clear. What they want and be clear. What if there are benefits from having a closer trade relationship . At moment relationship . But at the moment the language i think, is, is difficult you difficult because, i mean, you will tony blair will remember this tony blair used to give lots of lovely speeches saying pro european used to give lots of lovely spewas, s saying pro european used to give lots of lovely spewas, s sa heg pro european used to give lots of lovely spewas, s sa heg gave european used to give lots of lovely spewas, s sa heg gave them ean he was, but he never gave them in used to go in britain. He always used to go abroad. And i think the optics, as somebody used to organise as somebody who used to organise that conference and i know that backdrop well, i probably wouldnt have been talking about it amidst amidst, you it amidst a montreal amidst, you know, trudeau and, it amidst a montreal amidst, you kn0\that trudeau and, it amidst a montreal amidst, you kn0\that sort trudeau and, it amidst a montreal amidst, you kn0\that sort of trudeau and, it amidst a montreal amidst, you kn0\that sort of forum. Au and, it amidst a montreal amidst, you kn0\that sort of forum. He and, and that sort of forum. He should be in darlington if hes going to be talking about this, saying because in saying its because of jobs in electric that want electric vehicles that i want to do and so the do this x, y and z. So the messaging needs better. Messaging needs to be better. Got a whole load 2024 just got a whole load more interesting. It certainly has. Matthew, very has. Matthew, thank you very much. Pleasure. Now, in a moment, lampedusa. Moment, well talk lampedusa. Well red cross well begin with the red cross and then are some of the and then debate. Are some of the calls that are now from calls that are now coming from european calls that are now coming from europ put complete halt to what must put a complete halt to what is in the is happening in the mediterranean. Right mediterranean. Is that the right call . Possible call . Is it politically possible radio. I said on monday i thought lampedusa could become the most important political issue within the European Union and that it had the potential to perhaps destroy it. Maybe that was Strong Language , but i dont Strong Language, but i dont believe i was wrong for a moment. Think about it. That island 6000 people and island of 6000 people and somewhere between 2 and 3 times the size of the population of the size of the population of the island have arrived in the last ten days on boats , leading, last ten days on boats, leading, of course, initially to a huge problem in how to how to look after these people. Many of them not respecting any compound grounds. They were supposed to be in the beginning days of transportations to the italian mainland. Transportations to the italian mainland. But the transportations to the italian mainland. But the real story transportations to the italian mainland. But the real story is this the real story is there are Political Parties around europe that are now saying enough. We went through all of this back in 2015 and 16, and it did in some cases like sweden, have very severe social consequences, even the president of germany. Stein meyer saying overnight , weve meyer saying overnight, weve reached our limit. We just cant take any more. Well, poland is a take any more. Well, poland is a pretty key player in all of this , and theyre going to have a general election next month. And interestingly , dominik interestingly, Dominik Tarczynski mep was the first mep to go and visit lampedusa and he joins me right now, a member of the european for parliament the law and justice party. Dominic, law and justice party. Dominic, your position on this would be just i mean, just just what are poland going to say if your party wins the general election 7 right. Party wins the general election . Right. And youre, you know , . Right. And youre, you know, it looks like youre close to winning the general election. If your wins the general your party wins the general election. You saying you election. Are you saying you wont take migrants that have come in through italy . Of course not. We want well, we saying is send them back. We saying is send them back. Okay. Simple as that. So poland okay. Simple as that. So poland is the only country in the European Union , which we havent European Union, which we havent had even one terrorist attack. We dont have stabbings. We dont have rapes. We dont have dont have rapes. We dont have all these rich , very dangerous all these rich, very dangerous behaviours from migrants , behaviours from migrants, illegal migrants. So our policy is very straight zero tolerance. We build a beautiful wall on our on our border with belarus , and on our border with belarus, and there is no way anyone would enter poland when you see the data from eurostat, not ours from European Union, poland is the safest country in europe. That is true. That is true. That is true. That is true. Many would say that. Well, okay, there have been problems. Problems of assimilation in but that in time its going to be a success and no, no. And heres the interesting thing. You know, your signature is to the European Convention on human rights. Thats right. Youre subject to that court in strasbourg. How is it that the strasbourg. How is it that the European Union arent taking action against you for saying that . Of course they will. They started in 2015. You have to remember when they started this madness. I remember when they started this madness. I mean, Angela Merkel started it when she was looking for a cheap labour. We said, no, were not going to sign this quota system. And quota quota system. And the quota system failed. The quota system does not exist anymore. Why . Does not exist anymore. Why . Because poland and others said hungary, you simply said no, no. And youre still no, and youre still saying no, no, no. No, no. We said very simple. Zero, not not 1000. Not 100 zero, not even one. Whilst talking to whilst im talking to dominic, well play you some footage island of footage of him on the island of lampedusa. So zero, it was zero. Lampedusa. So zero, it was zero. Its going to remain. Thats right. What is going to right. And. What is going to happen, do you think , outside of happen, do you think, outside of poland , we had a very strong poland, we had a very strong woman elected almost exactly a year ago as the Prime Minister of italy. Right. Basically saying were not going to put up with this. Were going to stop this. And there she was begging ursula von der lande to help her. Well, the problem is with italy, the problem i think the problem is just very simple money. The budget is in really bad shape. So they have a really bad shape. So they have a really serious problem. And she needs serious problem. And she needs money from the European Union. She needs money for existence. At the moment, they are the economy is not doing very well. Its differently in poland. Its differently in poland. Poland is doing great. The lowest unemployment in in the whole European Union. Europe your economy is good. Some of those pictures we just showed our viewers right, it that number of young men packed in 18,000 must have been quite a tense atmosphere. That was scary. I must say that was scary. I must say that was really scary, especially that we visited this camp during the night and, you know, i did not expect so many look at it. Yeah, 18,000, 18,000 look at it. Yeah, 18,000, 18,000 people within a week. And the people within a week. And the camp was prepared for 400 people. Yeah. And this madness has to be stopped. It will be stopped by poland. We stopped it. We never let anyone to come illegally to poland. When you see polish people in london, we are here for legally. We pay taxes. We contribute to the taxes. We contribute to the society. And if anyone would society. And if anyone would like to come to poland legally, you are very welcome. But the problem is when you have 200,000 people in germany, we do not know who are they . They just vanished. 200,000 people by the german data. We dont know. Who are they . Where are they . What are they . Where are they . What are they . Where are they . What are they going do . Dominic are they going to do . Dominic we have we have our own problem. You know, with 46,000 people last year, people crossing the last year, what do you say . Send them back. How send those young how would you send those young men mean, need the men back . I mean, you need the army do army to do it. No, not at all. What you need to do, you need to put them on the send them back. The the plane, send them back. The problem is that they destroyed their destroyed. Their passports. They destroyed. They fingerprints. They destroyed the fingerprints. So. They are already so they. They are already criminals. So they. They are already criminals. But you so they. They are already criminals. But you cannot keep criminals. But you cannot keep them. You cannot let them stay in here. Because if were to going continue with this madness, there will be five or 15 or 50 Million People within a ten years. Its not going to stop because people who are making money on it are very happy what they heard from happy from what they heard from madam der leyen , and theyre madam von der leyen, and theyre making a money. Making a lot of money. Joined down the line now im joined down the line by farhat, legal by fadi farhat, senior legal consultant and a lawyer specialising in immigration and human rights law. Fadi, when you human rights law. Fadi, when you hear the view from a polish politician and you know theyre on the verge of winning a majority at the next election, how would you respond to the idea that the only way we stop this is to simply send people back across the mediterranean on. Good evening, nigel. Thank you for having me. Well, in you for having me. Well, in terms of the response from a lawyers point of view , as lawyers point of view, as a lawyer, you can comment on the existing state of the law and the existing state of the Legal Framework which we have, which across europe is shaped by the European Convention on human rights in the echr. European convention on human rights in the echr. Of course , rights in the echr. Of course, the old saying is if theres a will, theres a way. So thats in the political ambit. And with a majority in poland , one can a majority in poland, one can say that there is a political mandate for mr ideas and policies. But in terms of the policies. But in terms of the current Legal Framework, the European Court in strasbourg has been clear that in its previous case, one called hirsi jamaa, is the probably the most famous one is that these policies of interception , even on the high interception, even on the high seas in International Waters , seas in International Waters, fall foul of the Refugee Convention and article three of the European Convention on human rights. So there is jurisprudentially in terms of the legal principles, a legal barrier there. How you overcome those legal barriers is a question of political will. And theres no doubt there would be a collision between where the current Legal Framework will collide with any new political mandate such as that put forward by mr kaczynskis party. But in terms of the current Legal Framework , it would seem to be framework, it would seem to be unfeasible. Unfeasible. And so if, for example , if, and so if, for example, if, for example , germany, france, for example, germany, france, the European Commission said we need to change that Legal Framework, they could do that, couldnt they . Couldnt they . They could subject to the issue that , strictly speaking, issue that, strictly speaking, the European Convention on human rights comes through ones membership of the council of europe, which is a separate organisation to the European Union and the European Commission, but its currently presently a condition of European Union membership to be also a member of the council of europe. So there are sort of europe. So there are sort of interlocking issues at play. But of course politically , if of course politically, if theres enough political will and the political consensus across the board , anything is across the board, anything is possible. In theory. But there possible. In theory. But there are presently legal barriers to that. Dominic, youve heard what fadi has said. I think hes absolutely right, by the way. Hes absolutely right in what he says. Im happy he mentioned the legal because im legal ground because im a lawyer, too. Im doing my phd on human rights at the moment and the most Important Message from our government is that there is no law, any law above the will of polish nation. Thats why we of polish nation. Thats why we have elections in 25 days. But we have referenda on the same day and we just let polish people to say , do you want people to say, do you want illegal migration, which is forced by European Union . Yes or no . So if polish nation will say no . So if polish nation will say again and i must say , since again and i must say, since 2015, our party won eight times, we have won eight times. Leftists were rejected eight times. If were to going win, if referendum will be very, very clear, there is no law above the will of polish nation and the most important is safety. If we most important is safety. If we want our women, our children to be safe and were going to keep our word, we promised in 2005, 15 zero, not even one will come to poland. We did not let anyone in illegal. And were going to keep our word. Dominic, that language used in this country would be writ an off. Well, weve been called. Well, weve been called. Well, weve been called. Listen, weve been and an id and wed be told be kicked out of the kicked out of the European Union called by donald called juncker a racist. I know they can call us a pink elephant. I dont care. Im going to give the last word to fadi. Fadi, you hear the determination hear determination. You hear a different narrative to one that you would hear in scandinavia or at moment in in france or at the moment in in france or germany. It sounds like these guys are on a major collision course, doesnt it . Course, doesnt it . Yes. Nigel i mean, it seems dominics outlining the principle that parliament is sovereign and parliament ultimately has the final word. Ultimately has the final word. Thats one view. The other view is, of course, parliament can only be sovereign to a certain extent because we have a Supra National system by Supra National, we have a governing framework where inevitably theres going to be a collision between that Supra National framework and parliamentary sovereignty at a local level. Well i sense i sense a major conflict is coming. Conflict is coming. Are we going to win years, buddy . Dominic, both of you, thank you very much indeed for joining me. A moment, ill be joining me. In a moment, ill be joined sharon the joined by sharon davis, the former and former olympic swimmer and campaigner and some recent polling suggests our attitudes are relaxed. Attitudes towards transgender people has changed significantly. Im also going to talk to the former attorney general of arizona about the american legal system, because from this side of the pond, it looks pretty crazy radio. Its a big day in global media. Rupert murdoch, the 92 year old Rupert Murdoch with a 70 year career in media, has announced today that hes stepping down as the head of fox news. And indeed as the chairman of news corp. He becomes emeritus chair. But thats a very different thing. This guy very different thing. This guy has been incredible, seen by many to be divisive, some someone that ive interacted with and for a brief period of time did some work for he has been honestly , he honestly one been honestly, he honestly one of the most successful media barons in history. Of the most successful media barons in history. And hell barons in history. And hell leave an enormous gap from our perspective in this country. And we often think of we think of the Sun Newspaper and how dominant and powerful it was back in general elections. We perhaps think also of fox news and how powerful and profitable thats been in america. But the thats been in america. But the one thing to remember about Rupert Murdoch and i doubt youll hear this from any other commentator because they probably understand it, is probably dont understand it, is this in the run up to the 97 election in john major was in big trouble , big trouble big trouble, big trouble politically and big trouble with a growing eurosceptic voice because of jemmy goldsmith referendum party, major promised a referendum before we joined the euro , but blair was clearly the euro, but blair was clearly going to win the election. But blair wanted murdochs support. He wanted the Sun Newspaper to back him and the price that rupert demanded was, yes, well back you, but you have to promise therell be a referendum before we join the euro. And blair did the deal. If that hadnt blair did the deal. If that hadnt happened, we would have gone straight into the euro. In phase one. Brexit would not have happened. Soi phase one. Brexit would not have happened. So i am very , very happened. So i am very, very grateful to Rupert Murdoch, the man who did more than anybody to save the pound. Now im joined save the pound. Now im joined by a friend of the show, mark brnovich, former Arizona Attorney general mark, what is going on legally in america is continually in our news. We learned today that on october the 3rd, hunter biden will appearin the 3rd, hunter biden will appear in a court in delaware on firearms charges. You know, getting a gun whilst he was still a drug user, drug addict. Seems to me that given some of the accusations that were made against hunter biden, these are relatively minor charges. Relatively minor charges. They are and they arent. I mean, theyre significant the mean, theyre significant in the sense he could face up to sense that he could face up to ten years in prison for each of the firearms charges. And so on. And as a former federal and i know as a former federal prosecutor that the thing prosecutor that the big thing they get with, whether its they get you with, whether its lying the fbi or lying on lying to the fbi or lying on these mean, lying to the fbi or lying on these a mean, lying to the fbi or lying on these a felony mean, lying to the fbi or lying on these a felony in mean, lying to the fbi or lying on these a felony in the mean, lying to the fbi or lying on these a felony in the united , thats a felony in the United States. And its funny states. And so its funny because the left and the democrats they can democrats do everything they can to to prevent people from to try to prevent people from owning united owning guns in the United States. Gun states. They want more gun restrictions and they advocate more like this that punish more laws like this that punish people. Now its theyre people. And so now its theyre getting hoisted on their own petard, speak, because now petard, so to speak, because now these tough gun laws these very same tough gun laws that will be used to that they want will be used to prosecute the president s son. Its taken a time for its taken a long time for hunter biden to come up, hunter biden cases to come up, isnt hunter biden cases to come up, isnyeah, absolutely. Its yeah, well, absolutely. Its taken time. And i think taken a long time. And i think that, you know, you dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. And the reality is, is that, know, has is that, you know, joe biden has been on his influence been trading on his influence for the last 50 years in washington, family for the last 50 years in was angton, family for the last 50 years in was a bunch family for the last 50 years in wasa bunch of family for the last 50 years in wasa bunch of remoras family like a bunch of remoras living off you know , off of a shark. You know, theyve kind of fed off of him. And thats what, you know, Hunter Bidens essentially done. I its true. I mean, its sad, but its true. And can just you can plainly and you can just you can plainly see whats going on. Yeah, georgia was the opposite georgia opposite because georgia has moved breakneck speed against moved at breakneck speed against donald trump. You know, the donald trump. You know, the trial is going to happen very, very quickly. How much trouble in is trump in . In georgia is trump in . Know, its always well, you know, its always tough to predict what a jury or judge going but judge is going to do. But potentially but this the potentially but this is the thing. Believe as thing. I actually believe as once as former state once again, as a former state federal prosecutor , that i think federal prosecutor, that i think they bit off too much. They almost bit off too much. And because as you have all these different prosecutions like the new york prosecution, for where i think for example, where i think theres a legitimate statute of limitations issue, youre talking charge that had talking about a charge that had never filed a state never been filed by a state prosecutor and theyre prosecutor. And so theyre coming these new coming up with all these new novel theories. And i, as a prosecutor, was always taught when have the ability to when you have the ability to take away someones livelihood, life, property its an life, liberty, property, its an awesome. You awesome responsibility. You dont just throw stuff against the sticks. The wall and see what sticks. And youre talking about and so when youre talking about a former president and the major candidate, number one threat candidate, the number one threat to the current president of the united dont come up United States, you dont come up with novel new theory United States, you dont come up with never ovel new theory United States, you dont come up with never been1ew theory United States, you dont come up with never been tried 1eory United States, you dont come up with never been tried outy thats never been tried out before. Before. But you as a prosecutor were an elected prosecutor on a republican ticket. And were republican ticket. And were looking at this from this side of the pond. And we would accept that our legal system isnt perfect, but we have a separation of functions. You separation of functions. You know, the director of Public Prosecutions office, interestingly, of course, sir keir starmer , had that job in keir starmer, had that job in times past. But have a times past. But we have a separation out from elected officials , as you know, who deal officials, as you know, who deal with passing legislation on criminal matters , repealing criminal matters, repealing legislation. Our prosecutors are independent and seem to be independent. I just wonder, mark brnovich, i look at the divide in america, the political divide in america, the political divide in america, the political divide in america, which is frankly enormous. You know , far bigger enormous. You know, far bigger than its been in our lifetimes , maybe the biggest its been since about 1856. In many ways. And i wonder whether these just overt political prosecutions, because thats how they look. Is it time america rethought its judicial system . Well, look, i mean, theres always room for improvement, but the reality is, is that before i was an elected prosecutor , i was an elected prosecutor, i worked at the department of justice where you work for an a career track. To me, part of the career track. To me, part of the problem is, is that you have within the agencies of the United States government, whether its the state department, whether its department of defence, whether its justice, its the department of justice, you have these career individuals cant fired. Individuals who cant be fired. You know , they they arent you know, they they arent getting complaints. And so getting bar complaints. And so theyre unaccountable and theyre really unaccountable and theyre really unaccountable and they essentially have become like guard. And we like a praetorian guard. And we saw even with donald trump saw this even with donald trump when all Intelligence Agency when all his Intelligence Agency directors, them, directors, more than 50 of them, said all russia said this was all russia collusion they were lying. Did not believe the they did not believe the hunter. Hunter biden tapes. And you literally right. And so you literally now you have situation now you have this situation where have an old where you have like an old praetorian guard that thinks theyre of the theyre the keepers of the kingdom fbi doj. Kingdom at the fbi and doj. Basically unelected lot basically the unelected lot arent yes. The career arent working. Yes. The career is arent working and the elected lot are acting very politically. Mess. Politically. Its a mess. It is a mess right now. Politically. Its a mess. It is a mess right now. And it is a mess right now. And this is the thing that worries me prosecutor that me as a prosecutor is that whats is the whats happening is the institute asians america are institute asians in america are being undermined and people arent much arent appreciating them as much. They dont value their credibility. When you credibility. And so when you have you have highly have when you have highly politicised prosecutions that seem political in nature, seem very political in nature, people lose respect. And whats people lose respect. And whats going to happen is i worry. Nigel this will start to cycle now and then i think youre going to start seeing republican elected district elected republican district attorneys general attorneys and attorneys general saying, know what, saying, well, you know what, whats the goose is whats good for the goose is good and if good for the gander. And if theyre attack our theyre going to attack our political theyre going to attack our politictheories , its a race to novel theories, its a race to the bottom, right . It is a race to the bottom. As to the bottom. And as a prosecutor, you have to understand obligation is to understand your obligation is to do its not to win in do justice. Its not to win in every cost. I know mark brnovich, well talk you again. 20, 24, going talk to you again. 20, 24, going to huge year now. Sharon to be a huge year now. Sharon davis, former olympic swimmer, davis, a former olympic swimmer, and really to the and shes really come to the fore different guise over fore in a different guise over the of the last couple of the course of the last couple of years know, shes been years. And, you know, shes been campaigning for the rights of womens athletes, women athletes and generally , sharon, you know, and generally, sharon, you know, you have stood up and you have come into the firing line, havent you . Youve youve you havent you . Youve youve you know, you you and all these other awful people who say, well, women are women and men are men. But it would appear that it would appear that Public Opinion is beginning to move in your direction. Your direction. Yes, absolutely. I think yes, absolutely. I think whats been hard is to and its been such an interesting night on gb news, you know, its all about truth, isnt it . Its all about truth, isnt it . Its all about trying to get information and facts out there. There was a time when we turned the television on and watched the news believed the news. Television on and watched the newi believed the news. Television on and watched the newi think believed the news. Television on and watched the newi think thezlieved the news. Television on and watched the newi think the sad ed the news. Television on and watched the newi think the sad truthe news. Television on and watched the newi think the sad truth is1ews. Television on and watched the newi think the sad truth is now and i think the sad truth is now im not we so im not sure we do. And so through stealth, i think over quite a few years, gender has replaced sex and now that were being able to see the likes of someone elah bryson , you someone like elah bryson, you know, put on a pair of pink leggings and decide that theyre now a woman and they want to go into prison. Or we see into a womens prison. Or we see leah a foot leah thomas, a six foot four very average male swimmer, you know, spend one year wearing a womens swimsuit and then go in and all the best. American womens swimsuit and then go in and athletesyest. American womens swimsuit and then go in and athletes have american womens swimsuit and then go in and athletes have amer olympic female athletes have won olympic silver medals. Its in front of peoples faces and theyre actually seeing what that really means. It happened by means. And it happened by stealth without people actually realising, i think, as great britain, were an incredibly tolerant country. I mean, the, the, the actual , you know , the the, the actual, you know, the agenda that were looking at at the moment turned around and said that were more tolerant about relationships , more about sexual relationships, more tolerant about non traditional families, abortion rights, children outside of marriage, and better respect for single parents. So actually as a country, were were more tolerant. Oh, yes. Oh yeah. No, i agree with that and i agree with that. And there has been a shift in attitudes. Theres one potential attitudes. Theres one potential negative here, sharon, in this British Social Attitudes survey and that is that the number of people who describe themselves as being prejudiced and even a little prejudiced against transgender people has basically doubled that that is a slight cause for concern, isnt it . It is. And i think thats partly because they feel as if theyve been lied to. And theyve been lied to. And instead of being able to protect , say, childrens safeguarding and womens rights, theyve been trample on. So nobody wants anyone to not be able to do sport to not be safe, to not be able to identify however they like and be comfortable in what theyre wearing and what theyre called. But i think that there was a collision of rights. And i was a collision of rights. And i think that the British Public felt that for quite a long time , the rights of women and the rights of children were put second. And that is, i think, what theyre now voicing. And so id hate that you know, something that was then aimed at transgender people and became a real problem because it absolutely not do that. Absolutely must not do that. Final thought , sharon, should final thought, sharon, should somebody whos born a man later on be able to change their birth certificate to say they were born a woman . Born a woman . Yeah, a difficult one. Isnt it . So i believe that sex is the actual biological sex that you are should remain on your your birth certificate. So for things like medicine , its really like medicine, its really important for sport , for important for sport, for statistics and for safeguarding thing. And i just think that, you know, medicine, its ridiculous, isnt it, that you can go into hospital, that you, you know, you need to have Cancer Screening, for example. And you were actually and if you were actually biologically need and if you were actually biologi screening need and if you were actually biologi screening for need and if you were actually biologi screening for prostate. Cancer screening for prostate. You need Cancer Screening you do not need Cancer Screening for think for cervical cancer. So i think its important that we its really important that we understand in certain realms the actual sex. We are actual biological sex. We are really matters. And maybe that needs truthful birth needs to say truthful on a birth certificate. Certificate. Well, sharon davis , right or well, sharon davis, right or wrong, youve been a very brave campaigner. Youve taken an awful lot stick. And thank awful lot of stick. And thank you on because youre you for coming on because youre winning , youre winning. Winning, youre winning. Attitudes changing. Attitudes are changing. We want fast ball. We just want fast ball. Thats all. Its really simple, you know, we everyone sport , we want everyone to do sport, but it to be fair. But we want it to be fair. Absolutely thank you, but we want it to be fair. Abs |ntely thank you, but we want it to be fair. Abs in aly thank you, but we want it to be fair. Abs in a moment. You, but we want it to be fair. Abs in a moment. Well, hes sharon. In a moment. Well, hes the etonian became the the old etonian who became the mercenary attempted coup the old etonian who became the m my my favourite part of the show , my favourite part of the show, of course, is talking pints. Im joined by simon mann. Simon, of course , very appropriate. Youre course, very appropriate. Youre from a brewing family. I certainly am. I certainly am. I certainly am. And you went to eton and did. And your father captained england at cricket, correct. And my grandfather. And your grandfather. Sorry i missed that bit. Sorry i missed that bit. Thats okay. Thats okay. And you became a scots guards officer. I mean, you are the epitome of the british establishment, arent you . Establishment, arent you . Not exactly. Well, you not exactly. Well, you started out that way. I started out that way. Out that way. I cant think of a more blue blood background. But was the blood background. But was the army your or was your first love what you wanted to do . Very much so, yeah. Very much so, yeah. Very much so, yeah. And you must have been good at it. Uh, probably quite good to get into the sas. Get into the sas. And weve had so many books written about it over the course of the last few years. Too many . Too many . Well, yeah, probably. People saying things they shouldnt say about activities and about operational activities and all sorts of reality shows, you know, could you qualify for the sas . But so what happens . Do sas . But so what happens . Do they pick you as opposed to you picking them . No. You volunteer , you no. You volunteer, you volunteer, and then you have to persuade your parent regiment because you have to come from a regiment to go to the sas. So regiment to go to the sas. So you say you want to go. They you say you want to go. They probably tell you to f off because if youre any good , they because if youre any good, they want to keep you. Yeah. So you have to have a bit of a sort of fight to get onto selection and then you have to pass selection which which is, which is demanding. Yes. You you clearly were good at it because you were there for ten years. I mean, its not bad, is it . No, no. I wasnt in the sas for years. No i did a troop for ten years. No i did a troop commanders tour for three. I was in the british army for, i think a 12 years. I joined a total of 12 years. I joined and a couple times and and left a couple of times and thoroughly it. And both and left a couple of times and th terrible. I was i was a wet bob. I rowed instead. Bob. I rowed instead. So you didnt play in the eton harrow match or anything . Like none of that . No. No no, no. I mean, i tried. No. I mean, i tried. Grandfather england. Captain. No. I mean, i tried. Iirandfather england. Captain. No. I mean, i tried. I knowather england. Captain. No. I mean, i tried. I know. Her england. Captain. No. I mean, i tried. I know. Well,|gland. Captain. No. I mean, i tried. I know. Well, exactly. Zaptain. No. I mean, i tried. I know. Well, exactly. Butain. I know. Well, exactly. But you can imagine. You can imagine you can imagine. You can imagine how worked, because i was how that worked, because i was the eldest and everyone i was meant to be the third in a row to be the captain of england. And by the time i was 13, i realised absolutely useless at it. Now. Now you know, youve now. Now you know, youve done your time in the british army and the sas, the regiment as they call it , army and the sas, the regiment as they call it, and not unnaturally , you go into unnaturally, you go into security, its a pretty well trodden path, a well trodden path. Path. Yeah. Yeah. And that can take all sorts of forms and, and from what i can see, what ive read, this started off in a fairly conventional way. And then conventional way. And then theres a, theres a transition in angola where simon mann goes from being a guy in charge of security to being a mercenary. What happens . Slightly different, actually , because id rejoined the army in order to try and take part in the first gulf war. And i was on the first gulf war. And i was on the personal staff of sir peter de la billiere, which was a great honour , and he was great honour, and he was a terrific general and a great boss and all of that. And then when that finally came to an end, i joined tony buckinghams oil and company, heritage oil and gas company, heritage oil gas. As oil oil and gas. But as an Oil Executive and the whole idea was i was going to reinvent myself, make money, make loads make loads of money, make loads of money and be an oil and gas man, of which within six man, instead of which within six months i was a general in the angolan army. So the transition angolan army. So the transition had gone horribly wrong. Fighting what was a very horrible civil war which had been going on for 30 years. I mean, it was terrible, absolutely terrible. And wed absolutely terrible. And wed been attacked. And i said to been attacked. And i said to tony buckingham, my great friend and partner in the business, the oil and gas, i said, come on, lets lets attack back , which lets lets attack back, which is what we did. And that begat executive outcomes and their engagement in angola. Yeah yeah. Engagement in angola. Yeah yeah. And you go on and you form your own company , sandline and your own company, sandline and your own company, sandline and you do a variety of things and then it is just the bizarre story, you know, the old italian man who plans a coup in ecuador or guinea with funding provided by the son of margaret thatcher. I mean, what on earth was going on here . Well, it seemed like a very goodidea well, it seemed like a very good idea at the time. I why . Good idea at the time. I why . Well, you know, it was the president that corrupt and that bad. It was a tyranny and it appeared to be very bad. And it appeared to be very bad. And it seemed like a way of sort of introducing peace and democracy to a blighted land. And wed all to a blighted land. And wed all make some money. Yeah yeah. And it all went horribly wrong. So the idea was you get rid of the president thats in you get another chap in whos a bit more friendly with a lot more friendly because we had a chap whod been elected the mayor of malibu, the capital, democratically elected, and i was really his escort. I had things gone to plan and the objective was oil and gas. No, no, it was to return the country to, you know, nice democratic sort of setup. We werent going to touch the oil and gas because the americans had ordained do not touch the oil and gas. Oil and gas. There must have been another motive. There must have been motive. There must have been a Deeper Motive there. Just getting a bad guy , get getting rid of a bad guy, get rid of a bad guy and make a load of money and make a big difference in the region. Yeah. You know, because actually, had we done have we been successful, then there would have a knock on effect. It all goes. It all goes wrong. You i think in latter years thought that perhaps sir mark thatchers involvement wasnt particularly helpful. Yeah. Well, mark was a friend of mine and he came up with the money when we needed it. Yeah and he wanted to be very involved. And then, of course, involved. And then, of course, the wheels fell off the wagon. And i dont blame anyone for diving for cover at that point. Okay which he did. Well, and it all turned out absolutely horrendous you. Absolutely horrendous for you. And prison zimbabwe and youre in prison in zimbabwe and a pretty barbaric place. And people are dying and goodness knows what is going on. And then, of course, all these all these famous pictures of you, you know , and they were showing you know, and they were showing footage to our viewers now. But footage to our viewers now. But but, know, you finish up but, you know, you finish up back in Equatorial Guinea, youre youre given youre given youre given effectively sentence, effectively a life sentence, arent 32. Yes. Yeah im 32. Yes. Yeah and much of it in solitary confinement. Confinement. Yeah, all my time in Equatorial Guinea was in solitary. Yeah which is nearly two years. So i was 18 months in Equatorial Guinea , four years in zim. Guinea, four years in zim. And then and then e. G. How does the brain survive that long in in captivity . In in captivity . Locked away in solitary . How locked away in solitary . How do you stay sane . Simon mann well, ive got a sort of facetious answer , which is that facetious answer, which is that the less brain you have, the easier it is. Found. Easier it is. Found. The answer, well, we all but my schoolmasters for years have been telling me what was it after boarding at eton . After boarding at eton . It was not that bad. It was not that bad. Well, yeah, exactly. Preparation for a life of hardship. How do you. But how do you. Got to but how do you. Youve got to think yourself, you know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou yourself, you know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had ourself, you know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had a rself, you know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had a sonf, you know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had a son that] know, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had a son that youyw, you but how do you. Youve got to tiyou had a son that you hadnt. You had a son that you hadnt seen. Yeah. Youve got to think im going to die here. How do you keep mental strength to you keep the mental strength to keep it come you keep the mental strength to keep seriously it come you keep the mental strength to keep seriously i. It come from . Seriously i. I think some of the training really did help. I mean, obviously, you know, id had the training that i had had and that helped. And i found that writing helped. And i found that writing was an amazingly effective thing. But i sort of fell back on very basic things like routine, like a guards, like a guardsman, you know, i was a guardsman, you know, i was a guardsman. Yeah. The fitness i guardsman. Yeah. The fitness i always kept training. I always tried to do something artistic. And i audited myself and these were the methods i kind of developed it. Well, it worked. Well, it worked. It worked. It worked. You got out , you got back to you got out, you got back to blighty a more or less sane , i blighty a more or less sane, i hope about that. Ask amanda about that. Ask amanda about that. And how is life today . And how is life today . And how is life today . Fine. Lovely. Fine. Lovely. You know, happy super children. Yeah, lovely home, lovely wife. But it is all good. But it is all good. The most extraordinary story i but, but, you know, the most Extraordinary Part is that im now a friend of the president that i tried to overthrow. No. Yeah. Yeah. This is not possible. This is not possible. This is not possible. It is possible. It is possible. This is almost like ian paisley coming together with martin mcguinness. You really are. Absolutely are. Honestly absolutely astonishing. I so advice to astonishing. I so advice to fellows leaving the army and going into security is the mercenary mistake. Mercenary mistake. Well, the mercenary mercenary is a whole subject on its own. Yeah. And what is a mercenary . Et cetera. Et cetera. My, my, my. Glib answer to thatis. My, my, my. Glib answer to that is dont. Do not try any of this at home. No. Okay. Well thank you. So of that , that was good fun, of that, that was good fun, right back earlier in the summer, i thought id take a weeks holiday in france. Weeks holiday in france. But unfortunately, on the monday. What happened was the banking crisis that i was involved in hit the front pages. So i didnt really get a houday. So i didnt really get a holiday at all. Im off to cornwall next week for a week. Back with you the week afterwards. Trying to catch a bluefin tuna. So im praying for good weather. The temperatures good weather. The temperatures are rising. Boxt solar, proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Weather on. Gb news. Hi there. Thursdays blustery hi there. Thursdays blustery showers will ease overnight some dner showers will ease overnight some drier and clearer spells, but also a cool night to come with temperatures widely in the single figures before further showers on friday. Now weve lost the persistent spells of rain that we saw earlier in the week, especially across western parts of the uk. Weve still parts of the uk. But weve still got number of showers got quite a number of showers circulating an area got quite a number of showers cirlowting an area got quite a number of showers cirlow pressure. An area got quite a number of showers cirlow pressure. Thats area got quite a number of showers cirlow pressure. Thats sitting of low pressure. Thats sitting to the north of scotland and that means there will be further showers overnight especially that means there will be further showesternzrnight especially that means there will be further showestern scotland, specially that means there will be further showestern scotland, northern for western scotland, northern ireland, western parts of england wales. Therell england and wales. And therell be even some be some showers or even some thunderstorms running thunderstorms just running through close to through the channel close to kent times. Overnight but in kent at times. Overnight but in land actually plenty of clear spells. And under those clear spells. And under those clear spells with light winds, temperatures falling into the mid to single or mid to high single figures or even single figures for even the low single figures for northern parts the uk. So northern parts of the uk. So a fresh start on friday, but a bright start for many decent spells of sunshine across the midlands into eastern england. For a time, the bulk of the showers during the morning will be theyll be in the west. Theyll move east. Rumble thunder east. The odd rumble of thunder in england. In eastern england. By the afternoon and a cool day afternoon and its a cool day compared with what weve experienced far. September experienced so far. In september. Where that us to on a. Where that leads us to on a frosty start in places on saturday. Touch of frost mid wales northwards in sheltered spots but actually plenty of sunshine and its looking like a fair day for the vast majority. The cloud will vast majority. The cloud will build into the afternoon, but decent, dry and bright weather lingers on. That is until sunday when persistent rain returns to the west , a when persistent rain returns to the west, a bit warmer in the south and east. The temperatures rising , boxt the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Hello. Good evening. Its me, hello. Good evening. Its me, Jacob Rees Mogg on state of the nafion Jacob Rees Mogg on state of the nation tonight. Well, the Prime Minister smashed the net zero consensus yesterday that there is more work to be done. Green regulations have a stranglehold on the housebuilding sector and deaung on the housebuilding sector and dealing with them is key to solving housing crisis. As solving the housing crisis. As a new house of lords report calls on the government to do more for the faltering but will the faltering sector. But will its demands met . Media its demands be met . The media mogul Rupert Murdoch has stepped down as the chairman of his media at the old age of media empire at the old age of 92, bequeathing news corp to his son, lachlan. No wars of succession, it seems, at least for now, in a media career that has spanned eight decades. He has spanned eight decades. He has certainly made friends and