0 prude obey witches on the border of canada and alaska on the northern side of the continent. that's all we know, we know that it was there for the better part of 24 hours and was shot down at 1:45 east coast time today. we will continue covering breaking news. i will see you back here on "fox news at >> can you speak to rumors that there is another chinese balloon above alaska or any other u.s. territory that the u.s. shot down? >> so i can confirm that the department of defense was tracking high altitude object over alaska air space in the last 24 hours. out -- the object was flying at altitude of 40,000 feet and posed a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. out of abundance of caution and recommendation of the pentagon, president biden ordered the military to down the object and they did and it came inside our territorial waters, the waters right now are frozen, but it's territorial air space and waters. assigned to u.s. northern command took down the object in the last hour. >> all right, here is what is fascinating about how this all went down. we got wind of this less than an hour ago. what we're learning now and what you just heard there, came 11 minutes into john kirby's press conference. he didn't volunteer it, he was asked about it. had the question not been asked, would we know? there is a lot we don't know. this is neil cavuto, that is "your world," and trying to keep track of an incident that involved some object, country of origin not known, unmanned, shot down by an f-22 flying out of the air force base in anchorage, alaska. again, at that point, an hour prior, this going down two hours ago. we would not have known had a reporter not asked the question, it was not the theme or start of this presser. so many questions to ask, let's get to it. lucas has more. >> lucas: the f-22 shot down an object flying at 40,000 feet in u.s. territorial waters over northeast alaska near the border with canada. john kirby said the f-22 downed that object on orders of president biden today. debris is sitting on frozen water in the arctic and aircraft have been launched out of almandorf, smaller than previous spycraft, size of a small car, no significant payload. kirby said it was shot down over alaska, it was deemed flight issue because at 40,000 feet, you have civilian airliners flying. it did not maneuver like the chinese aircraft, he said the object was discovered last night and shot down over northern alaska, here is pat ryder. >> aerospace defense command detected an object and further investigated and identified the object using flighter aircraft, flying at altitude of 40,000 feet and posed reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. u.s. northern command is beginning recovery operations now. >> lucas: john kirby said it is not clear which country owned that object, pat ryder said the object was shot down at 1:45 p.m. eastern time. an f-22 shot down that object with a side-winder heat-seeking missile and the u.s. army helicopter was sent to recover the debris. the 11th airborne division is in alaska, u.s. army soldiers taking part in the recovery. neil. >> neil: lucas, they knew enough it was unmanned and safe to shoot down. it was a smaller object, the size of a small car versus the chinese balloon last week the size of three buses. three school buses. if you can discern it was unmanned and get close enough to get a good sense of its size, that of a small car, you can certainly discern whether it is a balloon object or something else, couldn't you? >> lucas: you would think. officials are being very careful not to describe this in more detail other than to say an object the size of a small car, unload the 2000-pound payload shot in south carolina on saturday. this was flying in northeastern direction, we don't know where it came from or when it was first detected. we know the f-22 scrambled yesterday and john kirby said last night, so a number of hours, 12 plus hours of observation of the object. president biden gave the order today. it is notable, the u.s. military had to ask president biden for permission, this went up the chain of command, hours after it was detected and the question of origin. russia is very near alaska, neil, where did this come from? russia, china? u.s. military on high alert and notable this object does not appear to have turned around and was flying northeastern direction. >> neil: has any country volunteered to say it is ours? >> >> lucas: no. >> neil: the white house is curious way this was announced to the world, we were 11 minutes into the john kirby preser before we found out about it. mark meridith is putting this together at the white house, what do we know? >> it turned into quite an afternoon, moments ago president biden offered his first comments on this object that was shot down off the coast of alaska. the president was welcoming the president of brazil, he said it was a success, meaning the shootdown of this object within the last few hours. our cameras are on our way to the oval office because the president of brazil is here, so it is possible the president may have more to say about it. we have to bring the tape back m and play it, it will be a few minutes, we'll see if the president has any information. the white house broke this news after reporters began asking about something trending online about the possibility of another object out there. there is a lot that the white house admits they do not know at this point. it was from john kirby, who was able to offer details about what they learned so far, take a listen from the briefing late this afternoon. >> it was an object at 40,000 feet and the predominant concern by the president was the safety of flight issue at that altitude. last saturday was at 65,000 plus feet, no threat to civilian aircraft, this could have posed a threat to civilian aircraft and did not appear to have the maneuverable capability the other one did. >> working to determine where this device came from and questions how the u.s. will respond going forward because of what china did with the first spycraft that was shot down. the decision to shoot this down was a stark departure from a week ago, the president addressed the first incident sitting down with telemundo on thursday. >> it is totally violation of international law, it is our air space and once it comes in our space, we can do what we want with it. >> those are comments the president made on thursday, we'll see if he has fresh reaektion when we are in the oval office in the next few minutes. lawmakers are keeping this issue front and center. congressional team say staffers have been briefed about what is going on, no indication, maybe the senators have in washington getting this meeting together may take time. the staffers have been briefed. neil, there will be questions about what the chinese may or may not say, they had a news conference this morning and the foreign ministry was asked about the incident last week and they said they believe congress was overreacting or dramatizing the incident. >> neil: i appreciate it, mark. i was hearing remarks about another object being sighted, is that similar to sightings we had for those who had seen the balloon last week and that is how the administration became aware of this? do we know the genesis, in other words, as to how the white house found out about it? >> our understanding, it was the pentagon that found out and alerted the white house, not necessarily the public. they were aware before, the way that became public, it was spotted over the continental u.s. this is more remote area and the u.s. was tracking it. why didn't this come up in the beginning of the press briefing? it is indication they knew the questions were coming and seemed like they were prepared, odds are it would have come up, maybe not the first question. the other headline, president biden will be heading to poland later this month, they were prepared for that question off the top, more details they had. >> neil: just follow on -- i am curious then had the question not come up, would they have addressed it at all? >> i -- if i was a betting man, i am, i would imagine it would have been brought up at the white house briefing or the pentagon briefing this afternoon. if they didn't and they said they knew about it, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, they admitted there is a lot they don't know. >> neil: an old line bearing the lead, maybe they didn't want to talk about the lead. >> it is friday afternoon in d.c., nevera dull moment. >> neil: given last week's developments, you would wonder. maybe they will detail all of that. mark meridith on that. the president was meeting with the nation's governors today, we have no indication he shared this with them, he might indicate more in discussions with the brazilian president, if he takes questions. looks like one was shouted out on this, when we get that tape, we'll share that with all of you. go to general newton vice chief of staff. general, good to have you and thank you for coming on such little notice, we appreciate it. your thoughts? >> good afternoon, neil, been a busy afternoon and seven days and the center of discussion is balloons. there is disparity between the shoot down today and this object, we'll call balloon for this discussion and the balloon that was shot down on saturday. the significant aspect, however, i believe it certainly has intention of our administration and the american people. once we determine the origin, if it is china, that is another thing. now here is another -- and i don't have facts here, if it is from china, you have another breach of u.s. air space, if it is not, it comes from another source, then there is a whole other issue of potential conflict with balloons, of all things. my final point, the discovery the american people have made that was certainly understood to some degree inside the pentagon was this fleet of chinese spy balloons, 40 nations, five continentses, fast forward to last saturday, we shot it down with one shot, one kill. fast forward to today, couple hours ago, one shot, one kill, from an f-22 from another object that penetrated u.s. air space. >> neil: general, the time line, they are not sharing everything, nor would they in a case like that, i get that. a lot doesn't add up. we were tracking this last night, we don't know when last night, but we were tracking it. i don't know if we were first tracking it at 40,000 feet, that would it would be altitude an aircraft would fly, i recognize the danger. it would be many hours later, in fact, two hours ago, it will ultimately be shot down. what do you make of that timeline and what they were watching and what might have precipitated this response of we're going to shoot it down? >> when i was on the join chiefs of staff, oversaw global situations and i understand chain of command and the communication aspect of this. the fact we started to track this balloon 24 hours ago and alerted the white house and appropriately made the decision to shoot it down, because of the danger to civilian air space at 40,000 feet, there is civilian traffic over the top of the planet and so forth. i believe that is appropriate. i firmly believe there isn't a lot more we can do right now. i suspect inside the pentagon and at norad and defense command, they are gathering the facts. my colleague keith kellogg said, let's not necessarily believe the first reportses, we'll dig into this. the pentagon understands, however there is aspect of this they likely don't, that would be origin of the balloon and what was the mission, if it had a mission at all. i don't know if it is surveillance, weather or commercial. i know this, we've had two balloons that have gone through u.s. air space and administration made a good call shooting this down, especially before becoming danger to u.s. air space. >> neil: if it was a chinese craft, they would have come out and made some mention of it or anger over the shooting down of it. again, so much we don't know, to your point, general. i'd like to get or share your sense of the protocol done here. norad aware last night, ran it up to the food chain to the president, the commander-in-chief who gave go-ahead to shoot it down. we are told by the general on their recommendation. is that how it has to be? if they see a threat, let's say instantly saw this as a threat last night, could they have made the decision themselves or the pilots involved to shoot it down? >> yeah, in this case, i think the decision process, as i understand it at this point, was correct. however, there is other situations. if there is imminent danger to the american people, where northern -- norad has the authority to shoot down if imminent threat and danger, in this case i don't see imminent threat and dangerous situation. i think it was a correct decision and they upchannel this to the pentagon and white house almost immediately. the other aspect i understand from my sources, we launched the f-22s and i've flown over that air space, it is vast uninhabited air force space. we flew f-22s, i'm sure they does some observation. what i am curious to know, were we able to launch the u2 reconnaissance aircraft that made several passes of that aircraft last week, we don't know if that is the case and they were able to take images from the ushg u2 and what were the f-22 ready to observe on several passes? that is thrown into a decision process and it appears to be the right decision at this point. my last point, back to the chinese. presuming its origin is china, we also have to really dig into the fact is where in china would this object or this balloon be authorized to be flying at this point? does it come out of the pla, the political bureau and so forth, politics behind china, the polar bureau, we don't know. those things will be unfolding in the next couple days or weeks. >> neil: yeah, if it was launched close to this balloon fiasco, you have to wonder that is hudspah. you could argue this was already up there or in that neighborhood but we don't know. >> fair argument, the challenge for the united states is china is modernizing nuclear forces, i'll use word breathtaking in terms of land base capability, launch capability and sea launch capabilities point one. it is not thinking of itself as reasonable power, but a global power and this spy balloon fleet is an example of one effort to be that global power, out of the new play book not just focusing on asia pacific, but the globe and able to penetrate u.s. air space. i'm assuming it is chinese air balloon, if it is not or it is russia and i'm not offer that as fact at all, we have to think about the consequences of its origin first and work backwards on this incident. >> neil: no one owned up to being theirs, it could have happened, we just don't know. thank you and thank you for your service to this country, sir richard newton. senator sullivan, were you aware of this, senator? >> i was briefed this morning from north com, northern commander was -- briefed me and i believe senator mccowski and the governor and identified this latest object over the sovereign space of alaska. and as i have been doing quite regularly, including in this classified briefing yesterday, with senior pentagon officials, i strongly encouraged northern command, u.s. northern command, to shoot this latest impingement on alaska air space down. i commend them for doing that. i have been briefed by alaska command military members based in our state on the mission and i do just want to say one thing about the mission. this is varsity level military operation. a lot of people don't understand the challenge and professionalism and just incredible military effort that occurs when you do an op like this. alaska is a huge state, with giant air space, this included f-22s, f-35s, f-16s, alaska national guard, tankers, we have rescue operation unitses that are on the ground right now doing a search for this operation. so really, really incredible work that the alaskan military is doing and continuing to do. this is an ongoing op over the skies of alaska, some at night, some of it in really difficult weather. so every american should know and appreciate the professionalism that has gone into this operation. these are not by any measure easy military operations to conduct. >> neil: senator, just trying to get the timeline you mentioned. you were notified this morning, are you in alaska, sir? >> no, i'm on the east coast. >> neil: this morning east coast time well before this sort of got blurted out at a john kirby presser 11 minutes into that presser. when you were told at that point, were you told this object was about to be shot down at that time? >> no. i -- again, they were tracking it. >> neil: right. >> our aircraft were tracking it. this actually came over into alaska air space in the area nome, western alaska by the bearing strait and shot down over dead horse. we talk about alaska remote, dead horse is prudhoe bay, one of the most important energy areas in america. right now the recovery operation are taking place about eight miles into the arctic ocean, but remember that is frozen, we have a good opportunity hopefully to find the pieces. this is much smaller than was shot down off the coast of south carolina. >> neil: true. >> they think it is about the size between a 55-gallon drum and a small volkswagen. that could be a challenge to find in the ice off the coast of alaska. at the time i was informed of the tracking of this, of the seriousness with which northern command was taking this, and like i said, my strong recommendation throughout this last couple of weeks, is if we have unidentified object that threaten our country or are spying on our country, that we should take effort to shoot this down. we should do it safely, if this is another chinese incursion and we don't know that yet and they emphasized that in briefings to me. i said this morning on a news show, neil, we need to reestablish a sense of deterence. if the chinese think they can willfully violate american air space, we need to make sure they understand otherwise. i commend the military for taking this action, challenging military action they carried out very professionally and wish those were still involved in the op, on the rescue side, on the recovery side, good luck and safety. it is tough to operate up in alaska, very cold and it is going to get dark early and right now our military is doing an exceptional job. >> neil: you know, i do notice when you talk about the difference, too, the criticism had been in the balloon and notification that montana governor and senators got, of course they didn't get any when it was flying overhead at the time. sounds like that is not the case here, you and your governor, governor dunleavy were notified. were you notified, as well, afterward that it was indeed shot down? >> yes, i've had briefings from northern command, which was responsible for this and i had briefings from the alaska command, which is sub-component command, northern command in norad on the operation. and i've been briefed, as well. >> neil: speaking of alaska and you've been patient, faa is reporting air space closed in northern alaska to support these defense activities to get this and to retrieve this object. is that still the case and will that go on indefinitely? do you know? >> well, when these kind of ops take place, neil, you can imagine, what you have seen in this case, coordination between active duty forces, our military forces, but also involved coordination with the faa, coordination i'm sure right now already with the fbi, to look at again on the recovery side. so if that is what you're hearing right now, i imagine that that is happening. remember, alaska plays a strategic role for our country in so many ways. we're the cornerstone of missile defense for the entire nation, missile interceptors are in alaska, combat power, 100 f-22s, f-35s, f-16s in alaska given our strategic location, but the faa in alaska plays a very critical role, not just for alaska, but for every american who flies from the united states to asia, all that comes through alaska air space. our faa partners in alaska do exceptional job for every american flying overseas, so the coordination that has to happen in an op like this, and remember as general said, this was about 40,000 feet altitude unlike the spy balloon from china last week. 40,000 feet, that starts to get very dangerous for just commercial air traffic, that is another reason you're hearing they decided to shoot this down, which again, not only the port, but prior to them doing that, i encouraged, but the faa, as you mentioned, i have not seen that directly, if they close the air space over there, it is because there are ongoing military flights, military recovery operations, including some of our outstanding air rescue teams in alaska, our national guard that do exceptional work and they're either on the ground right now or going to be on the ground trying to recover the fragments of this object, which was again, much smaller than the one shot down off the coast of south carolina. i'll tell you this, neil, one other thing we need to start emphasizing here. obviously we need to check out and be very diligent on the connection to china. again, the military has made it clear right now, they have not indicated one way or the other on whether this involves a connection, but as we've seen with the chinese communist party in the last week, you can't trust them. they are still calling the last balloon a weather balloon that has gone off course. well, that of course, is not truthful and it is par for the course for them. they lie very frequently to the world. but secondly, the other thing we need to be looking at is very much focusing on our own appropriate sensors, systems and capabilities that i think this call for the military in alaska and the whole country, we need to be able to detect things that are slow, like balloons that are really, really fast, like hyper sonics that fly really, really low, like cruise missiles and right now our homeland defense needs an upgrade in all areas and i think this is a wake-up call in that regard. >> neil: someone is trying to get our attention, we'll see who is the author behind this. the alaska -- joining us right now. early efforts the administration has taken to punish the chinese for the balloon incident. we don't know who is behind this latest incident. six companies have been black listed, technology concern ninjing, out of beijing and electronics technology group remote sensing technology company among the half dozen chinese companies the commerce department has black listed, meaning we can't do business with them, they can't do business with us, we can't send anything to them, they can't send anything to us, i suspect that list will grow, we will get that out of the administration. the president is meeting with the president of brazil, we thought he would get questions on this, but it appears he did not get -- didn't take any questions on this. we'll watch it closely. i find that -- to believe, this did not come up. we have congressman carlos jimenez on the house armed services committee. congressman, your thoughts on this latest object that we shot down, we don't know where it was from, we know it was a lot smaller than the chinese balloon that went down and that was over our entire united states before being shot down last week and that was three buses wide, we're told, this is the size of a small car. we don't know much more, no country owned up to this being theirs yet, what do you think? >> i just don't believe in much coincidences, so i'm not going to say it was chinese made or that, but we had that huge balloon last week and now another balloon incident, again, i don't believe in coincidence and just because it was smaller doesn't mean it can't carry a package that is a spying threat or another threat to the united states. flying lower, obviously and, and smaller, maybe thesis things are just a way to test our capabilities and do we have capability to detect them, capability to shoot them down, i think we demonstrated we do have the capability to detect them and shoot them down in both instances. i think the biden administration ought to have a policy, any aircraft that violates our air space, posing a threat to the united states from an adversary needs to be shot down. clear message, don't come in our air space, don't try to see what we got and shoot them down. i think the action was appropriate, in this case, flying at 40,000 feet. it's a hazard to civilian aviation, in the case of the balloon last week, it obviously was a spy balloon and we shot it down after it completed its mission, that doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. >> neil: you have been involved in briefings, i do not want you to share that information, you can volunteer it, you are behind what went down in the decision over the atlantic, that seems like ancient news given this latest development and some fear future developments. there is so much we don't know and so much the military is not sharing with us, but the timing is weird and americans hearing this will be saying, all right, even if it is not china, it is somebody's and why do this again? what do you think? >> yeah, again, i don't believe in coincidences, i'm not saying it was a chinese baknow loo, but i don't believe in coincidences, i believe that first baknow loo was like a trial balloon to see what we would do. now we have another balloon, what did we do this time? did something different. >> neil: we don't know if it is a balloon, but you are right, we have another object, we know it was ultimately shot down and largely reason to which you eluded flying at altitude of 40,000 feet, that is the level at which a lot of commercial aircraft fly. having said that, though -- >> actually when you say that, some kind of a long-range drone, we don't know, you are right. it may not have been a balloon, it could have been a small battery-powered drone or long-range drone from whoever. yeah, we can't assume it was a balloon, they didn't say it was a balloon, sounds like a balloon or something like that or something observing something in our air space. >> neil: yeah, so much we don't know, to your point. let me ask you, the administration for the first time and you are up on this far more than i, to punish certain chinese, largely looks like technology firms, six of them placed on a black list by the commerce department, which means their persona or company nonegrada, you can't do business with them or them with us, i think that list will expand, what do you think? >> i do, too, i sit on the -- they are adversaries, a competitor, if you compete against somebody, football, basketball, you're in competition and you're all playing by the same rules. the chinese comun mooist party does not play by the same rules, i sit on that committee, we're visiting a lot of things, military build-up, their threat to the us, their economic power and also the economic things they do to us. their practices, etcetera, what they are doing around the world and none of it adheres to the norm and adheres to the rules of the game. i believe that we're going to get tougher and tougher with china and the last week and the balloon kind of opened up a lot of people's eyes, what the heck is really going on. they are not just competitors, they are adversaries and their ultimate goal is to be dominant power militarily and economically in the world and we need to take it serious, we need to start investing in protecting the homeland and facing this threat that is looming. it is real right now, it will get bigger and bigger economically and militarily, this is probably the beginning of black listing of chinese firms that are doing business in the united states or doing business with them. >> neil: finally, sir, this is probably planned before we got news of this latest incidents, but ford motor company is expected to announce plans to build 3.5 lithium battery plant in michigan, coming from reuters, i mention it because the plant is expected to be located in michigan, employ 2500 individuals and it will own and operate the plant with the chinese company emporex technology company as a technology partner to produce batteries. would you endorse such a co-managed plant? >> no, i don't. i think what the chinese have demonstrated, they will partner up with you and then take all your intellectual property and basically eventually put you out of business. we need to understand that there game plan and has been for sometime, i would not like the ford motor company to partner with the chinese battery company. the problem we have, a lot of the lithium and raw materials, china controls a vast majority of that, it doesn't mean we don't have that material in the united states. we just the practice we have here make it virtually impossible for us to mine it and gather the materials and make the materials here in the united states. we need to change that, that is a matter of national security and we need to put that at the forefront. i am not crazy about the ford motor company partnering with a chinese company, no, not crazy about that. >> neil: you speak your mind, congressman carlos gimenez, thank you, getting to the bottom of this. for those just joining, the pentagon downed unidentified object over alaska, this happened 2-1/2 hours ago, under the order of president biden. john kirby, pentagon spokesman confirmed the shoot down, but it was 11 minutes into a press conference, this would not have come up if not raised by a reporter. it was confirmed it was an object, wouldn't determine if it was a balloon, it was smaller than the balloon that we ultimately shot down over the atlantic last week. that was chinese balloon told to be wide as three buses. this was as big as a small car, it was unmanned, but traveling at 40,000 feet, which is the same level a lot of commercial aircraft fly, the decision was made after monitoring for some hours, we don't know how many, to shoot it down and worked up the military food chain to the president of the united states, who authorized the shoot down like that and it was done a couple hours ago. colonel, there is a lot we're not being told, i get that. what is interestings, to my knowledge, no country has taken ownership of this or complained about this, it is a mystery for the time being to the general public. i'm sure maybe not everyone in the military, what do you think? >> if it was traveling northeast, they've known about it sometime, obviously 24 hours. as i said last week regarding the spy balloon, because of our capabilities, not only in alaska, but japan, south korea and in special aircraft that fly around that region, we know most of everything that is above a certain level of the ground. and so it would be very surprised if we didn't know where this object came from. during the cold war, neil, i knew exactly where all the russians were on the other side of alaska, other side of the bering strait, for us not to know is incredibly hard to believe. >> neil: one thing, as well, colonel, if this is a taunting move on the part of some country, china, russia, also in that neighborhood, we might stress, that alone would be an interesting development, you have to get back to when it was launched in the first place and if launched after all the hullabaloo, over the china balloon, that is an act of military hudspa in and of itself. >> it is, as the congressman said, the largest military in the world and largest economy and intimidate through variety of ideological campaigns, they use various leverage, unrestricted war fare is what was said in 1949, when established people's republic of china and they use that doctrine against us five years ago, i made it clear in my book "alliance of evil," we're in a new cold war and taken a number of years for people to understand how serious the likes of president xi happens to be, all you have to do is read his address at 20th congress this past october to understand they have a very long memory about our mischievousness back to the war and they continue to remind us how they were offend. long 3500 years of history, they have not forgotten and their aggressiveness, south china sea, east china sea and clearly across the world is something we need to take to the bank. i've been to russia during the soviet union time and was very cognizant of how dangerous they were and i believe china is more dangerous today for a variety offen ras, which i point out in my book "kings of the east." >> neil: one thing that is fascinating is we're already going after economic punishment, business punishment, if you will, chinese technology companies targeted right now to be black listed. half a dozen of them, i don't know where they all stand in the military spear, but this could be just the start. when it gets like this, china will probably do something retaliatory, black listing some of our companies and of our businesses and back and forth we go. are you concerned that whatever the justification that this leads to an economic war and it gets pretty nasty? >> well, as i mentioned, unrestricted war fare before, they use economic power to manipulate the world. look at the belldin road initiative touches nations around the world one way or another and they are using that as leverage to get basic mineral access and political manipulation, so yes, the chinese are not above doing anything to advance the interest of the chinese communist party and that is really the center of mass of where we're finding resistance, it is not the 1.4 billion chinese we're fighting it is the 95 million chinese communists and they will use their ideological arm, their security remembera, technological arm through artificial intelligence, quantum computing, whatever it takes, to get their way and manipulate the international system. what president xi has been very clear, he doesn't like the present international system that is in place that came about post-world war ii. he wants to replace it with one that is more akin to what fits his interest and by the ways, also vladamir putin. we have to recognize they have a very clear agenda, very different from ours, but we need to begin to have policies that strike back at them in ways that will cause them to change their behavior. they only know one thing, marxist lennonists, president xi was chosen for that reason, he's hard-core marxist, hard to deal with and only knows one thing, often force, unfortunately. >> neil: let me ask you something here, do you ever think, colonel, unintentionally get out of control and other countries will see the u.s. shot down another object, whatever, and it escalates to the point people get trigger happy and bizarre and start shooting down all sorts of objects, including commercial jets? i don't want to take a crazy paranoid leap, but it has happened before and i'm wondering do you fear it could escalate? >> it obviously happened with the dutch airliner over ukraine years ago. that was tragic. that was a trigger-happy person behind a particular ground air capability. yes, i am very concerned about that. the people in the south china sea, east china sea, japanese especially, taiwanese, filipinos, secretary austin was there and managed to get access to four particular bases, but the indians are concerned, vietnamese of concerned, as well, name anywhere in the asian pacific region and people are cautious about chinese hegemon and they are very aggressive and something the american people need to wake up to. having spent so many years looking at the soviets, i'm beginning to wonder if we spent enough time thinking about how serious the chinese people and their communist party are about the way ahead. i've read many of the speeches by key leaders in that country over the years. i see their significant increase here recently that we just discovered of their nuclear arsenal and they are not inhibited by a new start treaty like we have with the russians. they are going to build whatever necessary to intimidate us and balance of the world. what i'm saying in my most recent book, kings of the east, i talk about how they want to change the world order and i'm serious, that is what they want to do and doing everything to accomplish that mission. >> neil: all right, scary you have it is, a lot of stuff could happen, you don't know what is going on, fears can run ahead of them themselves. we are going to monitor and my producer is talking a second ago, are we aware of this tape playback and do we have it? this is toward the end of it, the president is with the brazilian president or taking questions. i'll have you look at it, this did come up, take a look. >> [people speaking over each other] -- >> neil: okay. that really was pretty useless. i don't mean to disparage what we thought we could get out of it, we got nothing out of it, a lot of questions simultaneously on this matter, he did not address any of them. congressman henry cuellar with us, homeland security. what is odd about this congressman, how little we are told and whether we would have been told anything had not a reporter raised the question 11 or 12 minutes into a white house briefing. it is just odd, some people were notified, we know last two senators were notified about this and the presence of this small object flying over alaskan skies, and the governor dunleavy. public statement was made and given the environment last week with the balloon and search for wreckage to this day, do you find that odd? >> well, you know, certainly i think they reached out to certain people and i assume all of us will get more information. i like to follow-up what your prior person said a few minutes ago. when you look at china, china sees itself as the middle kingdom, they see themselves as the center of the universe and certainly they are trying to use every way, especially the military, to go back to where they were many years ago and saw themselves as the middle kingdom. i think this describes a lot of actions we're seeing from the chinese trying to go back to concept of the middle kingdom. >> neil: when you have your intelligence briefings, a lot concern the balloon incident last week. it is clear to an average observer, congressman, the administration went out of its way not to repeat communication blackout we had the balloon in terms of the montana governor, the senators, no one knew in the state what was going on. this time, the administration seemed to make an effort to notify defense officials of this object. i'm wondering if that were the case, should there be an obligation to share that with the american people right away who are rightly concerned about this sort of thing? >> well, you know, i think there is protocol where they will notify members and senators, as you know. i sit on defense appropriations, i would say that in this case, they certainly and even on the first one, they knew it beforehand. it doesn't just appear at the alaska coast. we're able to track those things way before they come over to the u.s. border, in this case, the alaska border. in this case, at 40,000 feet, i think that is what it has been estimated and talking about 40,000, that is very different area when you talk about air space. >> neil: you know, a lot we don't know, this much we do, that the retribution a lot of people want to see in washington for what people did with the balloon, starting to pan out, might be the first of many. commerce department cited six technology firms and put them on a black list, i've seen this, you have seen this in the past as we did with russia, when they invaded ukraine, that list grows, there will be other cases and of course russia responds in kind, we learned ukraine just today cutting back on oil supply to hike the price of oil to stick it to us. i wonder if china now will potentially do the same, black list our companies and we'll black list yours and make sure we can't open up operations in your country, we'll make sure tesla can't produce cars in ours, you know what i'm saying? how do you see this playing out? >> yeah, usually the russians do it all the time. sanction one and they'll do the same thing. assume the chinese might do the same thing, but keep in mind that the trade and commerce between the u.s. and china is guilty different than the u.s. and russia, but i'm sure there will be some sort of tit-tat for this also if the second object was chinese, we can see that. i will tell you something, i've been with the military in alaska, i was there about a year ago, couple years ago, and we see that, we hear from our military there that there is in the past, always the testing of the russians over there. so now it is not only russians, but we are getting tested by the chinese to see how we react and see what information they can get from us. the russians were using, of course, military aircraft and here it looks like it is more of at least the first one was a balloon or air stat. >> neil: we don't know what the second one is, no country has owned up to it, they might know at higher levels issue but are not sharing that, we are waiting on that. congressman, good to have you. thank you for sharing that. we'll get the latest from the pentagon. what more do we know or have you learned? >> lucas: moments ago president biden was asked repeatedly about this and this is how he characterized shoot down of this object over northern alaska. >> anything to say about the object shot down over alaska, mr. president? >> lucas: the president was waiting for the brazilian president to arrive and he said success and the president refused to respond more, you played the tape. we don't know where the object is from, which country, just couple days ago the state department says chinese are flying over four countries and five continents. we don't know where this one is from and no sign it was turning around and don't know when it was launched from where it came from. that map is showing recovery effort overhead, c-130 aircraft and aircraft special operation, hh6 helicopters, chanooks and army soldiers also on the ground. the ch-47s have special skis, you can lain on the frozen water. i temperature in prudhoe bay is minus 20 degrees, dangerous, freezing conditions and you have oilfields up there, might be a reason something is floating overhead taking a look. >> neil: thank you, lucas at the pentagon with all of that. speaking of the china balloon and recovery effort to get as much of that as possible, it is going on for a number of days, brian yennes is in south carolina with how that is going. brian. >> neil, fox news learn china spy balloon operation in south carolina have been halted, suspended until monday because of rough water conditions expected tonight, up to 35 mile per hour winds. we learned the payload has been located, it is mostly in tact and expected that is where we are expected to find most of the electronics of this spy balloon, a major finding, this as more and more equipment is being brought to this operation, more unmanned vehicles being brought in, cranes and naval divers who are on the scene to help eventually recover this equipment. that payload has been located, not yet recovered, here is what the pentagon says about what this operation looks like moving forward. >> depending on the size of the debris, they are able to tag it, debris brought up quickly is brought up, put on a vessel and taken to shore. debris that will take more time and especially given the current sea states, it may take longer, we know where it is, we tag it and will go recover that and bring it up. >> the fbi says so far investigators have been able to recover the balloon canopy, wiring and very small amount of electronics and have begun removing salt and sea water and extremely limited amount of evidence has made it's way in for analysis. this unidentified object shot down in alaska a few minutes ago and this balloon shot down in south carolina is 200 feet tall, higher than the statue of liberty in new york city as opposed to the object over alaska, that was size of a small car. that payload in south carolina is about size of a bus, about a thousand pounds, they are trying to get out of water 50 feet below. >> neil: i'm happy to see you reporting on the ground, i love going to you, i get sea sick.
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