but debra has always denied involvement in her daughter's disappearance. as the months passed, the searches eventually stopped. and the story faded from the spotlight. until now. "the kelly file" has obtained never-before-seen interviews of lisa's parents in the days immediately after her disappearance. secret secret tapes recorded by a former top cia officer a government-trained spy and interrogator. and what and what he found could change everything you thought you knew about this case. >> what involvement did you have in the disappearance of lisa? >> i'm sorry. >> is there any evidence that indicates that you were or are involved? is there any reason that anyone will come forward with evidence, legitimate evidence or information, that would indicate or identify involvement on your part with your daughter's disappearance? >> no. >> how do you know debra didn't do anything? >> because of her reaction when i said she's not in there. >> so what happened? >> i said she's not in the crib she's not in the crib! and that's when all hell broke loose. and we were just and we were just running all over. i said we i said we got to find her, we got to find her. i remember her being -- she was sitting on the floor by the front door crying and screaming, my baby, my baby. >> in minutes my exclusive interview with the man they call the human lie detector who interrogated lisa's parents. but first, a look back at the case that riveted the nation. november 11 2010, little lisa irwin is born to parents deborah bradley and jeremy irwin. they live a quiet life in kansas city missouri, along with jeremy's 8-year-old son blake and deborah's 5-year-old. money is tight so jeremy works overtime when he can, including on the night of october 3rd 2011. baby lisa is 10 months old. jeremy leaves the family home around 5:30 in the evening. within hours disaster will strike. at 6:40 p.m. deborah puts lisa in her crib, then she heads to her porch to visit with a female neighbor. the pair will spend the pair will spend hours on the porch drinking wine lots of it. deborah goes to bed four hours later. sh she initially tells police that she checked on lisa, who she says was asleep in her crib. she turns out all the house lights and goes to sleep with her son michael in her bed. the time is 10:40 p.m. at 4:00 a.m. jeremy returns home. immediately he immediately he notices something unusual. all of the house lights he says are turned on, and the front door is unlocked. he tries to wake deborah, but she is groggy. so he goes to check on lisa. and here begins the story of every parents' nightmare. his 10-month-old daughter is gone from her crib, his baby appears to have vanished. jeremy tells deborah, he says they both become distraught. he runs next door banging on his neighbor's door. the neighbor answers and he asks whether lisa is there. he's told she is not. he returns home and now notices that the three family cell phones are missing from the kitchen. he he uses his work phone to call 911. authorities show up and begin authorities show up and be searching for the girl. searching for the girl. jeremy jeremy tells police about the lights and the front door and something else he noticed. he says in their computer room down the hall from lisa's bedroom the screen in the window appears to have been tampered with. investigators search the area, but there's no sign of little lisa. they they tell the public the parents are cooperating. the next day the story goes national when jeremy and deborah appear on tv to beg for lisa's safe return. >> please, bring her home. our two other boys are waiting for her. please, just drop her off anywhere. we don't care. just somewhere safe where she can come home, please. >> deborah is soon given a lie detector test. she later reveals police claim she failed. within days the kansas city police say the parents are no longer cooperating, which deborah and jeremy deny. one week after lisa went missing, the fbi and police stage a break-in to discover ways an intruder could have entered the home. police find climbing through the tampered window is actually rather difficult and conclude the intruder would have made noise. fox news also traveled to kansas city and visited the irwin house. this right here is this right here is the window through which the family believes the intruder entered their home on the night in question. it leads into a it leads into a computer room, through that computer room you can get to baby lisa's room. right over here, right over here, is the family's backyard. you can see it's fenced in. they say they have a dog who stays in this backyard, normally, 24/7. they did not hear their dog bark. and right here is and right here is the neighbor's house. they they also have a dog. here he comes. who also stays in the backyard 24/7. his family his family tells me that he barks at just about anything. over the next few days firefighters drain a well under the porch of an abandoned nearby home. and missouri and missouri governor jay nixon orders a one-day deployment of 25 national guardsmen to help with the search. still, nothing comes of it. then two bombshells. this is a fox news alert on breaking developments in the disappearance of 11-month-old lisa irwin. yesterday america live unearthing major new developments in this story. i flew to kansas city, missouri and sat down for a two-hour one-on-one interview with little lisa's parents deborah bradley and jeremy irwin. during that interview deborah admits to heavy drinking on the night her daughter disappeared telling fox news she drank five to ten glasses of wine. and then she changes the entire timeline of the evening. she now claims she's not sure if she checked on her baby at 10:40 as she originally claimed. she says she thinks the last time she saw her child may have been at 6:40 p.m. let's talk about the wine. how much did you consume that day? >> >> i had several glasses of wine. >> when you say >> when you say several, more than three? >> yeah. but that has nothing to do with her. >> >> more than five? >> probably. >> more than ten? >> no. >> when you went in at 10:30 after the neighbor left. >> uh-huh. >> what did you do? >> probably went right to my room. >> >> why probably? >> because sometimes i check on her -- well, most of the time i check on her. >> you don't remember? >> no. >> so it's possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30? >> yeah. >> the last time you saw your daughter alive in your home was when you put her down at 6:40? >> yeah. >> the new information is a major development. an additional four hours has now been added to the case. and that wasn't the only part of deborah's story that changed. listen to the answers she gave two fox news anchors regarding the house window. do you think they came in through that window? >> absolutely. >> based on the condition it was in could someone have gone through that? that you saw? >> no. >> days later a missouri judge grants a search warrant for police to search the irwin's home. investigators remove brown investigators remove brown paper bags along with bags along with lisa's clothes and toys. it is now 15 days since lisa disappeared. the fbi brings in cadaver dogs, the first time officials have brought in canines potentially giving up an important clue they might have discovered had they used the dogs on night one. one of the dogs hits on something reportedly marking the scent of possible human remains in an area on the floor near deborah's bed. november 8th, more than a month has now passed. and new potentially important details emerge about the family's missing cell phones. police records prove that deborah's phone was used the night baby lisa disappeared hours after deborah claims she went to bed. according to police the first phone call is attempted at 11:57 p.m. then again at then again at 3:17 a.m. someone attempts to check deborah's voicemail and access the internet. five minutes five minutes later another attempt to check voicemail and access the internet. in all deborah's attorneys say there were five attempts that night. the cell phones never got more the ce than one-third of a mile away from the irwin home. remember, the phones were used around midnight and then three hours later, which raises the question who would steal a baby and three cell phones only to sit by the baby's occupied house for several hours on a cold autumn night? as for that midnight phone call that was attempted, police looked into the number dialed. the call was to a woman named megan wright. she lived in a shared home noun to be used by drug seekers. >> apparently there was a 50-second phone call made from one of the family's phones to my cell phone. about 50 seconds in length. i don't know what was said or who called or who answered my phone. >> wright >> wright tells police she did not answer any call because she says she didn't have her phone that night. she claims she shares it with her roommate. wright also says she does not know the irwins who live about a mile away. and the irwins attorneys say cell phone records show no prior calls between meg gan's number between deborah or jeremy. and now a new twist develops in the case. megan wright claims her ex-boyfriend might know the irwins. he's a neighborhood he's a neighborhood handyman known known as john jersey tanko. he's referred to as jersey joe. a man with a criminal record, a man who is bald and a man who just happens to fit the description given by three of the irwins' neighbors who tell police they saw a bald man with a baby on the night of lisa's disappearance. another neighbor another neighbor claims jersey once broke into a home only a block away from lisa's house. deborah's attorney pushes the claim jersey was heard bragging about collecting $300 to steal baby lisa. that claim is never verified. he says he gave police this information but police say jersey is not a suspect that he has some sort of an alibi and that he's been cleared of any involvement. the irwins want jersey investigated, but police aren't biting. late in the case late in the case deborah's attorney reveals she didn't actually fail the police-administered polygraph test. he says police he says police admitted to him that they lied about that to try to force a confession. it didn't work. and to this day deborah maintains her innocence. i want to ask you this to people who may still be watching and having doubts about whether you had an involvement in this. what do you say to them? >> there's a bad guy out there with my baby right now. and there's people that are judging me. please just look for her. >> next, the never-before-seen interviews of little lisa's parents. hear hear deborah's response when she is asked point-blank whether she is responsible for lisa's disappearance. and why our next guest and his analysis may change everything you thought you knew about this case. welcome back to our "the kelly file" special investigation, the baby lisa mystery. "the kelly file" has exclusively obtained never-before-seen interviews of lisa's parents conducted in the days immediately after the baby's disappearance. interviews performed by a former top cia operative who challenged both parents about exactly what happened here. >> i think the first question that i need to ask you this morning, okay, is what involvement did you have in the disappearance of lisa? >> none. the only thing i did wrong was drink that night. and possibly not be alert not hear. i'm i'm sorry. >> phil houston worked for the cia for 25 years. he has conducted thousands of interrogations and grilled double agents and terrorists. and he is credited with developing a deception detection method that is used throughout the usa intel and federal law enforcement worlds. he is also ceo of qverity and co-author of "spy the lie." phil, great to see you. >> good to see you as well. >> what most of america did not know is in the days after baby lisa went missing, you and another partner went to interview deborah and jeremy about the disappearance. and you went in with an open mind. it's on the it's on the tapes. you say i'm not you say i'm not here to represent you, i'm here to represent the baby. >> correct. >> and i may bring this to the police, this is going to be an open interview. why did you set the stage like that? >> i wanted -- she'd been through a ton of questioning. as had jeremy. and one of the things that we were concerned about is that they would be conditioned to answer these kinds of questions. and if we're going to be able to spot a lie, there has to be a fear of detection, a fear of getting caught. and we wanted to make sure that that fear was instilled or re-instilled, if you will. >> did you go with any preconceived notions about their guilt? >> we >> we did. you said we you said we went in with an open mind, it wasn't quite true in the sense that riding out there on the plane i really believed that based on what i'd heard and based on what i'd heard from the comments by the kansas city p.d. and others that the parents were probably guilty. and also just statistically. >> that's right. >> it's heavily slanted toward, you know, parental involvement. so i assume there was a high probability that they were guilty. >> so when you >> so when you asked that question there and you heard her answer, what was going on? >> i was surprised. because if you notice what i didn't ask her was did you do it. because if i say did you do it because if i s every criminal in the world expects to be asked that question. >> what involvement did you >> have? >> what involvement is >> what involvement is presumptive. pres the psychological the psychological difference is the truthful person doesn't have to -- they're hearing did you do it. the deceptive person the criminal, what involvement did you have what do they know, what is it that they've spotted what have they uncovered? and all that processing will manifest itself as deceptive indicators. >> in that answer what did you hear? >> we didn't see >> we didn't see those deceptive indicators. she answered the question directly. we're not giving her we're not giving her credit for answering it directly, what we're giving her credit for is not exhibiting the deceptive indicators. we didn't see any significant nonverbals. what we also saw that got our attention immediately is in the question she immediately went to the fact that she had been drunk that night. so she was actually accepting some culpability for perhaps what had happened. >> which is the behavior of a truth teller? >> well, you certainly don't see criminals taking culpability for, you know for the event. and that was a bit odd. >> let me play the second question of the interview. >> is there any reason that anyone will provide information or evidence that indicates that you were or are involved in her disappearance? >> no. no. >> what's >> what's happening there? >> the same thing. what's really interesting is and it's perhaps not obvious on camera, is that between the first question and her answer and then that answer and that question was about eight or nine seconds. that's a long time for that's a long time for someone who has done something who has done something as horrible and as horrible and as despicable as either, you know, cover-up the death of a child or were responsible for the death of the child and aren't disclosing it chlgt and so you saw immediately she answered that question without hesitation. without any of that processing that i referred to a moment ago. again, i confess i was a bit surprised when i saw that. >> a guilty person would be looking to get out of bounds somehow on the answer. >> exactly. in other words again, what do i know. it it plants what we call a mind virus. what evidence have they what evidence have they uncovered? what do they what do they know? where did where did i not cover my tracks so to speak? and there was none of that processing. it was i it was immediate, no, no. but again, we're not -- you know, we're not ready to walk away and say, okay she didn't do it. >> right. there's much more to the interview including your interview of jeremy, which they were to perform separately. and we're going to get to much much more after this break. up next, what jeremy irwin has to say about the moment he realized his daughter was missing and why phil and his partner found this so important. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. thanks. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] fedex® has solutions to enable global commerce that can help your company grow steadily and quickly. great job. (mandarin) ♪ ♪ cut it out. >>see you tomorrow. ♪ ♪ esurance was born online. which means fewer costs, which saves money. their customer experience is virtually paperless which saves paper, which saves money. they have smart online tools so you only pay for what's right for you which saves money. they settle claims quickly which saves time, which saves money. they drive an all-hybrid claims fleet which saves gas, which saves money. they were born online, and built to save money, which means when they save, you save. because that's how it should work in the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. jeremy, if the police were to walk in here right now and say to you jeremy we have come across some evidence which clearly indicates that you're involved in lisa's disappearance, what would you say? >> >> it's not possible. it's not possible. because i wasn't. so it would just be another one of their lies. >> joining me again, phil houston. what did we see what did we see there? >> >> again a very tough question especially for someone who is lying, okay? and in this particular case we didn't see deceptive behavior. we didn't see what sounded like a lie. it was a question that's designed to provoke deceptive behavior from a deceptive person. >> like the police have got something. >> exactly. >> exactly. and we didn't see that. >> what about the body language? it looks like he's kind of looking down. his manner in general is pretty sort of quiet and laconic. >> exactly. that's jeremy's personality and manner. and one of the and one of the things that we know is there were some people i recall when we were watching on tv before we ever went out and interviewed lisa and jeremy they said -- excuse me. deborah and jeremy. that jeremy looked guilty. and you can't make those kinds of assessments based on someone's appearance. because you're only guessing at why they're behaving that way at that moment. what you have to look for with deception is understand what the stimulus is for potential deceptive behavior and then see if it provokes deceptive behavior. >> could they have been coached? >> c could a lawyer have said when you get asked these questions be definitive don't hedge just deny it outright. don't elaborate. period. can't they can't they be coached into deceiving you? >> people could be coached, but the likelihood of that masking deceptive behavior is highly unlikely. >> you don't think they could fool you? >> i don't think so, but one never knows. there's no such thing as a human lie detector. there really isn't. people call us that you know, and so forth, but at the end of the day we're human. >> what would the body language have been if they were being deceptive? >> one of the things that we would have seen would have been some physical activity a spike in anxiety. for example, if you're worried that i know something that the police have that you don't know it's likely to spike your anxiety without even thinking about it the body -- the nervous system kicks in and starts to anticipate that anxiety. we'll see movement grooming gestures, shifts and things of that nature. >> wow, so you're not just listening for the words you're watching -- >> every second we're trying to be laser focused. >> here's another moment where jeremy describes the first moment he got back home and he went back to deborah and they realize lisa is missing. watch. >> i said she's >> i said she's not in the crib, she's not in the crib. and that's when all hell broke loose and realized she wasn't where she was supposed to be. started to run all over the house screaming. looking for her. >> when you say screaming, what were you saying? >> we were just -- i don't -- we were just running all over. i said we got to find her, we got to find her. at this point in time both of the boys are in the hallway deborah's yelling at them, you know look for your sister. we're running all over the house looking in closets and under beds. >> so what d >> so what do we see there? >> what we saw there what i saw in particular was a lack of choreography, if you will. a lack of a prepared statement. he was struggling for the words as to what they said that night. now, that maybe he's lying and he can't, you know, he didn't say those things. >> he's not going off of >> he's not going off of memory. >> >> exactly. but in reality but in reality in a moment of high emotion, high tension, you put some time between that, even a few days. it's hard to remember somebody said what exactly did you say when this happened, people don't typically remember, you know, word for word what they said. and he wasn't afraid to reflect that i'm not remembering that. >> uh-huh. >> you know as opposed to something that sounded like a pat answer. >> quickly, just a quick question. you did the interview you did the interview along with a colleague, but you interviewed them separately. do you and your colleague discuss it? do you wait until the end and then share your independent conclusions? how does it go? >> we have a set of questions when we go in. and we have a methodology or an approach by which we'll sort of pass the baton between the two of us. but we took about an hour at a time. i think we spent about five hours with deborah and approximately three hours with jeremy. >> wow. >> and during the period where we're interviewing them we're taking no breaks, we're not comparing. and at the and at the end we were kind of looking at each other scratching our heads because -- >> hold that thought because up next we're going to ask phil what the conclusion was when it was all over. what does he think now? and also we'll show you how jeremy reacted when police presented one of their theories to him on the parents' involvement. also could also, could this suspect be responsible? what about this man? phil weighs in on the man called jersey up next. and later this hour mark furhman will be here to share his theory on why he thinks without a doubt these parents are in fact guilty. >> is >> is there any reason that anyone will come forward with evidence legitimate evidence or information that would indicate or identify involvement on your part with your daughter's disappearance? >> no. ♪ ah, push it. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ push it. ♪ ♪ p...push it real good! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ow! ♪ ♪ oooh baby baby...baby baby. ♪ if you're salt-n-pepa, you tell people to push it. ♪ push it real good. ♪ it's what you do. ♪ ah. push it. ♪ if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. ♪ ah. push it. ♪ i'm pushing. i'm pushing it real good! live from america's news headquarters a 7-year-old girl is the lone survivor of a kentucky mean crash that killed four people, including the pilot. police say she walked to a home, and was rushed to the hospital with nonlife threatening injuries crews located the scene in a state route. >> the head of the indonesia search and rescue agency saying two large metal objects have been found on the bottom of the java sea. so far, 30 bodies have been recovered. snow covering roads triggering a massive car pile up. police saying 50 vehicles were involved in this crash on i-93. there are reports of injuries but none considered life threatening. i'm patricia stark. i'm patricia stark. our "the kelly file" special. well well, it's one of the most frequently asked questions in this investigation why does jeremy irwin believe that deborah had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance? watch. >> how do you know deborah had put her -- >> because of her reaction when i said she's not in there. >> uh-huh. >> so i knew that's when deborah come unglued. and i knew that obviously that was where she was supposed to be. >> all >> all right. okay. ok so so what happened after that? >> um, run all over. i says, you know maybe maybe for some reason she's next door at sam's house. >> did you ask debbie, deborah, if she was at sam's house? did you mention that to deborah before you -- >> i don't think so. i remember her being -- she was sitting on the floor by the front door crying and screaming my baby, my baby. >> joining me now along with phil houston is bill stanton, hired by an unnamed benefactor to help find baby lisa. >> thank you. >> phil what were we seeing there? >> in that >> in that particular case he is just simply responding to the question. agai again, we don't see any convincing behavior. when the behaviorists like to say that for a truthful person the facts are their ally. so they're not afraid to deal with those okay? and we don't -- and if they're not your ally, what do you say? and then typically people will go into the convince mode when they're lying. he's not in the convince mode. he's relating what happened and not dressing it up. >> we're going to be joined by mark furhman in a minute and he completely believes that the parents did it. and i know you guys -- you said you went there thinking probably they did it too. and you've just said that. let me ask you phil, now what do you think? >> absent any new information -- i mean the one question mark in my mind is do the police have something that we don't know? it's not my belief that they do but, you know they're not obligated obviously to share everything with us. but absent that the analysis of the fact pattern suggests and combined with their behavior in our mind says they didn't do it. >> phil, you think furhman's wrong. you spent a lot of you spent a lot of time with this family. and you think that the police need to be looking at this guy jersey who we talked about in the package. why? they say they've moved on from jersey. >> well, let >> well, let me say i respect mark's skillset, but he might as well be a reporter for the rolling stone because all he knows is what he sees. we were boots on the ground. we know a lot. we don't know all. we shared with the kansas city police department. i think -- cause we still go over to this day we'll be on the phone going back and forth what if, so what if this person did it. jersey joe there is so much compelling circumstantial and the fact patterns that lead to him, i believe he needs to be focused on and re-focused on. >> have they ever told you because we reached out to them even just now and said what's the evidence on jersey. why have you moved on from him? and they wouldn't answer. they wouldn't tell us anything about jersey. >> well, with certain police departments and i'm not saying it's the case here, but certain police departments there's a myopic vision and almost the fear to go out because they don't want to be wrong. i'm not saying that's the case here. so i'm hoping this so i'm hoping this special, what you're doing here, may reopen eyes of certain people and their prosecuting office to look at jersey and other avenues. >> i know this is a strange question, but if she wasn't killed by her parents, where could she possibly be? wouldn't there have been some sign of her? >> well you know what i think of this when i was down there and you were down there and that weather was cold that this little baby this little lost soul is out there in the hands of a stranger left alone. who did this? this answer, this question needs to be answered. and when people say what's the motivation obviously the parents didn't do it for the money. if it was done by if it was done by mistake, how can you have it both ways that she drank so much wine and then became a master criminal. but then let's look at jersey joe. he's a meth he's a meth addict. what motivation what motivation does a meth addict needs? who knows what's going on in their mind. he's known for doing petty larcenies. the most compelling thing in my mind megyn there's witnesses, a husband and wife around the corner saw a male, white, bald head walking with a child at 12:30. how can anybody how can anybody just dismiss that? >> and the number dialed on deborah's phone was to megyn wright who shared phones at times, or at least was an ex. >> and knows that telephonic history had never been shown before in any of the other irwins telephone messaging or telephone numbers nor had it ever been dialed out or received before that night. >> and i know that. you saw the phone records and you actually shown them to me and i've seen that myself. >> that's correct. >> gentlemen, it's been a pleasure. >> thank you, megyn. appreciate it. >> he's been one of the most vocal critics of lisa's parents and particular deborah since the story made national headlines. up next, why mark furhman believes this couple deborah is very guilty. even after watching all of this. >> is there any reason that anyone will provide information or evidence that indicates that you were or are involved in her disappearance -- >> no. 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why? because you because you know, you heard phil, he has no horse in this race. he says she he says she did not indicate deception. >> well, when -- with all due respect to somebody that worked for the cia and dealt with terrorists, that's fine. but you observe them for hours days, weeks months sometimes years. you understand how they are on and off camera, on and off interrogation. and this interrogation wasn't an interrogation. it was barely an interview. >> which they admit it was an interview and it would have switched over to interrogation if they had seen identifiers of deception. sorry, go ahead. >> it couldn't. it couldn't because they have no evidence to confront deborah or jeremy about the crime scene or the disappearance. they didn't have the privilege to have that information that the police department has. whether it's forensics or other evidence that they have such as the cadaver dog that keyed in the bedroom. they don't have that information. they don't have they don't have timelines. they don't have they don't have cell phone records. they don't have anything. and neither does bill stanton. this is the interesting part about this investigation is that interview was entertaining, but it meant nothing. she failed a polygraph. at best she was inconclusive. >> we think she failed but later came out the lawyer claims the police later said she didn't actually fail, that was a tactic. we don't know what the truth is. >> the truth is let's go with deborah bradley. she said she failed. she was confronted. she will not allow herself a one-on-one conversation with the detectives in an interrogation room setting. that being said she allows somebody that's a private citizen that worked for the cia to come in and ask her softball questions, larry king questions and obviously she's going to be able to answer those questions. she's had time to prepare for them. and she's had people and she's had people preparing -- preparing -- why would they allow her to sit down with this man if they thought that there was going to be any way that she would actually be found to be deceptive? and what would it mean? >> what do you think -- >> it would mean nothing. >> what do you think is the most compelling piece of evidence against her? i realize the statistics suggest it's always the parent, but what's your view? >> well, let's just throw statistics, let's throw everything we know about this crime or any other crime that's like it. and when you just look at this on face value. you have to turn the coin over and look at what you don't have. first, it's supposedly a kidnapping. it's not a kidnapping. there's no ransom note. there's no ransom call. nobody has the baby and wants money. there's no blackmail there's no blackmail involved. it's not a it's not a kidnapping. that means you're dealing with a missing child or a homicide. that's what you're dealing with. >> what about selling the baby? >> the kansas city police department -- i mean, that's -- at first it's ridiculous. i mean, that's not something that even happens in this country. mostly it mostly it happens with babies that are adopted from other countries and they use them in a black market in other countries, not our country. that's not even an issue. these are things that people that want to create some kind of cloud of doubt. you look at this information that you have. the baby goes missing, first deborah bradley says she puts the baby down at 10:30. then when you interview her she used you to actually bring the realtime, evening that she put the baby down, as the actual time she laid the baby in her crib. and what good would it be to do that on your show? you didn't have any information to interrogate her about what that change of timeline meant. the police wanted to talk to her immediately after they saw your show. >> uh-huh. >> uh-huh. >> but she wouldn't allow >> but she wouldn't allow that. okay. okay. when you have this when you have this circumstance, she she blacked out. she also conveniently brought the 6 and 8-year-old to her bedroom. why? why? well, that was well, that was an alibi. they're in her bedroom. now she has two people that can say i was with mommy asleep in her room. when you have the 10:30 timeline somewhere in that period something happened to the baby and deborah bradley left the house. why are the cell phones missing? a kidnapper comes in leaves absolutely no trace evidence whatsoever, not a hair not a fiber, dna, fingerprint, nothing. take takes a baby, takes three cell phones. with a with a kidnapping, just how is the kidnapper supposed to get ahold of the people he wants money from or to tell them he has the baby? why did he take the cell phone sns s? s? well, he didn't. that was her way of showing there was somebody else in the house. >> wow. >> wow. mark, it's always mark, it's always fascinating to listen to you as somebody who's actually investigated homicides on your take on it. thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> well this past november marked four years since baby lisa was born. next deborah and jeremy join me to talk about what life is like now without their daughter. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. joining me joining me now baby lisa's parents, deborah bradley and jeremy irwin. thank you both for being here. >> thank you for having us. >> what is it like for you to sit and listen to mark furhman? >> they're just opinions in my opinion. it doesn't mean anything to it doesn't mean anything to me i know that i know that it's not true. and my most important goal and focus is bringing my daughter home. >> do you think the police are >> d following up on any leads now? >> i do. >> really? >> i do. i have faith that they are. >> why? >> well recently we have called up there and they're saying that there's still at least two leads that come in a week. and they check every single one of them. >> uh-huh. >> and we're supposed to meet with them after the holidays to go over all the information that we've given them that we found. >> have you been in touch with them? >> yeah. >> you've been >> yeah. >> you've been talking to them? >> we've kept in contact with them most of this whole time. >> how do you survive? i mean four years later and you haven't seen her. how do you survive? >> it's pretty difficult. you just stuck in the day-to-day motions every day. >> uh-huh. >> the same thing over and over. just try to keep it toget try to keep yourself together one more day. make it until tomorrow and see what happens. >> i know when i interviewed you a couple years ago, deborah, we had the picture of lisa from the center for missing and exploited children. i know you said even back then you were looking in the crowd wherever you pass a child who would be lisa's age. >> yeah, i did it all day today. we were walking around before we came here to see you and we were standing on the corner. and i seen a little girl she was in her stroller. and she's about lisa's age. and i looked down at her really tired of looking at everybody else's kid hoping it's mine. >> what have you >> what have you done at home with her room? what is her room like now jeremy? >> her room is >> her room is pretty full. >> of her stuff? or have you moved on from that? >> no, it's all her stuff. we haven't taken -- we haven't done anything with it since the time she was kidnapped other than we've had to try to stockpile all the gifts and presents and things like that that ourselves and other people and family members have gotten her. you know, she got christmas birthday everything, you know. whenever we go shopping for the boys, we get her stuff too. so her room's a little like organized chaos. >> is it painful to walk by that? >> it >> it feels good. it feels good to go in there. and smell her. and know that some day she's going to come home and she's going to see all these presents. and she's going to be excited to open them and to watch her reaction and stuff like that. i think it will -- i think it will be special. something special for her to know that while she was gone we didn't stop buying her things and thinking of her. and, you know, every cake, every birthday there's a cake. every christmas there's presents. i mean, even right down to little holidays. you know fourth of july and different things like that and halloween, we buy her costumes for halloween. >> what do you think about -- do you think it was this guy jersey? what do you think, what do you think, jeremy? >> >> well, like you know, we keep saying one of the more difficult things is that we don't ever get any information feedback from other people, law enforcement maybe maybe. so i don't know. i don't -- >> did they ever find fingerprints in the house of another person? >> not that we're aware of. >> they have not divulged any of that information. so there could be things there that we don't know about. but they can't divulge that. >> what about the reports the cadaver dog got a hit in the house in your bedroom? >> there's nothing missing from any bedroom and never has been. >> but the cadaver dog smells the scent of decease. is there any report of anybody dying in the house or anything like that? >> we did some research, but as far as we know, no. >> your biggest regret about that evening? obviously your child was taken, but in terms of your own behavior? >> i wish i hadn't >> i wish i hadn't been drinking. because, i mean, i feel like it was planned and they were going to take her. and it was going to happen. but i feel like maybe if i hadn't been drinking, i would have heard something. >> uh-huh. >> and got up. i just feel like i didn't save her. >> it wa >> it was the one night that you worked overtime. it was not something you did was work overtime overnight. and your van was not in the driveway as it normally would have been. jeremy, deborah, thank you very much for being here. we'll put her picture up on the board. >> we really appreciate you >> we really appreciate you doing this for her. thank you so much. >> the website is on the screen for anybody who has any information about littlelelelelele ♪ nothing beats that new car smell ♪ ♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm ♪ if a denture were to be put under a microscope we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher brighter denture everyday. if you have if you have any information that you believe could help find lisa irwin call 816-474-tips. you can also log onto findlisairwin.com. we will be posting tonight's special online as well. go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. follow me on twitter @megyn twitter @megynkelly. thanks for watching everyone. i'm megyn kelly. this is "the kelly file".." welcome to "hannity." 2015 is just hours old, but all eyes are looking ahead to 2016 as more presidential hopefuls hint they may get into the race. i'm tucker carlson in tonight for sean. earlier this week former florida governor jeb bush resigned from all of his board memberships. his spokesman called this "a natural next step" as he explores a presidential bid. marco rub olympic toldio told npr he is thinking about it. >> i have to think about -- where i can carry out this agenda. wh