holder with a harsh acquisition. >> what attorney general had to deal with that kind of treatment? >> the congressman is here on a big night on "the kelly file." breaking tonight, the woman at the helm of the botched obamacare rollout and everything that follow sd resigning. welcome to "kelly file." i'm megyn kelly. a lightning rod for criticism over the disastrous launch of the health care law. after months of denying that she was on her way out, she's gone. our own chris predicted that the white house would keep her until the end of the enrollment period and send her packing and here we are. chris is on root to the dc burro. he'll join us live on the breaking news in a moment. we also have new developments tonight after brandeis university silenced an outspoken champion for muslim women. i spoke with alyan hirsi ali is dedicating her life to advancing the cause of women's freedom. she received attention for her work on "honor diaries," a documentary. >> a lot of it has to do with how women behave and the sexuality of women. as a woman you're stripped of your freedoms. for women, it becomes almost a matter of daily life. >> ms. ali is critical of islam and last night when she came on the program, she said she's no stranger to attempts to silence her. >> for the past 10 years i've been condemned by muslim organizations, relatives, any time that i bring up the treatment of women in islam. >> brandeis university has not yet made anybody a valuabv a va defend the situation. why try to silence this woman? part one of that interview aired last night and online right now and now part two with mr. cooper. it's my turn. you just told me the messenger matters. you just made that point. i'm giving you that. if the messenger matters, then care matters and care according to u.s. senator chuck schumer. >> take -- >> excuse me, mr. cooper, care according to chuck schumer. >> i'm not going to let you hijack the segment mr. cooper. it's not going to happen. >> chuck schumer said care we know has ties to terrorism, prominent members of care's current leadership, also, excuse me, had intimate connections -- >> this is why you have a hard time getting muslim representatives to come on fox and your program because every time someone comes on you engage in these smear campaigns. >> how is that smear -- that's a u.s. senator, sir. >> don't tell me what other people say about care. tell me what care has said or done that you object to. we defend the constitution on a daily basis. >> so you can criticize -- >> we use the first amebldment -- >> it can never be said against you because that also is hateful bigotry. >> you can say it but i have the right to defend ourselves against this kind of smear. >> it's not me, sir. it's many people who have -- >> no, it's you, it's every -- >> it's not -- stand by. here is people from all political stripes talking about care. stand by. >> it's radical islam we're talking about here and care is a front for radical islam. >> that's not true. >> connections to hamas. it was founded by two people who are deeply connected to hamas. >> it grew out of a meeting in 1993 in philadelphia among hamas activist confronted with the problem of how do we support hamas without anyone recognizing that we're supporting hamas? >> go ahead, sir. >> go ahead. i mean, we're used to these kinds of smears. we're a civil rights organization -- >> they are all smearing. they are all lying. >> that's life in the big city. we're used to having these kind of hate-filled smears but again, 20 years, the most public muslim organization in the nation, please find something that care has done or said in those 20 years that you find either extreme, objectionable, into intolera intolerant, whatever. every day we're defending the constitution who would change it so muslims wouldn't have civil rights. >> how about this -- >> the constitution -- >> excuse me mr. hooper. >> excuse me, sir -- >> should it be changed? >> you just challenged me. you defended pig a terrorist group that killed over 100 people saying and i quote -- >> aij. >> saying and i quote, they never threatened anyone outside of is rarael and the occupied territory. that was a quote from care, from you, sir, you said that. you have gone on to defend the saudi arabia defending the families of terrorists, of suicide bombers saying well the families didn't do anything. these are specific comments by you, sir. >> again, you know, when you do your oppositional research, it might be helpful to go to someplace other than internet hate sites -- >> okay. i see how it's going. >> one of the other criticisms of care is you guys -- you're -- >> issues about -- >> criticism of you that you're very quick to allege that the criticisms are wrong and anybody criticizing care or radical islam -- >> care is big boys we can take it -- >> you're doing that now, you cry islam phobia to shut down criticism. >> we defend the image of muslim. if you want to atake care. that's fine. we get it every day from every internet hate site -- >> u.s. senators, chuck schumer? he's not really a right wing extremist. >> look at the date on some of this stuff. try and get something that's in in century, how about? >> have you come to a better place with chuck schumer? >> we have -- when we had our annual dinner, we had, i think, 70 different letters of support from congressmen. we had -- >> so no? >> appear at our bank wets, we have relations on a daily contact with fbi on civil rights issues -- >> i bet you are. >> what is your point? >> your critics say -- >> did you come on here to discuss -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> the viewers should know that you have gone after and threatened reader's digest, the medical association, u.s. and world report, the dallas morning news, fox news, we did a segment just the other week, you demand add retraction, which you're not getting, every time you hear something you don't like, you try to shut down the message. we're here in america we like speech. >> that's called -- >> good and bad. >> it's called the constitution and first amendment. >> no, no, the first amendment allows free speech, every speech you don't like. >> you get to say hateful things about islam and we don't get to respond? >> no, sir, see, your problem is you don't want to respond, you want to silence. >> no, we want to challenge hate-filled anti-muslim extremist and we do it quite successfully. >> you do. shutting down honor die res, getting the degree pulled from ms. ali, suing -- >> again -- >> you've done that a lot lately. >> those educated about the hate-filled agenda of the producers said hey, we don't want to buy into that hate-fill aid gina and we're not going to show it and by the way, in each and every case where the honor diaries isn't shown, there is now planning for real engagement on that legitimate issue with real muslims and with members of that university community. so it is -- >> well, brandeis university can know tonight, understood. hello? brandeis university can understand it stands shoulder to shoulder with you and care, sir. i'm sure they will take comfort and the students will take comfort in knowing that. thanks for being here. >> the best students, everybody. >> thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> that will be posted shortly on facebook, as well. joining me are brandeis university students trying to have the degree reinstated for ms. ali. daniel mail is a contributor to truth.org. let me start with you on the issue of care which was instrumental on getting this degree revoked. you heard him say name something i've done, most obvious in the fact of 2007 they were named as an unindicted co-conspiriter in a co-conviction in terror funding. that's one of the many, many things. your thoughts on the role of care and getting ms. ali's offer revoked. >> look, care is an organization that doesn't seem to enjoy hearing competing philosophies and perspectives, and acedemia is to go ahead and recent the invitation to ms. hirsi ali is dispingble and perhaps our administration at brandeis doesn't seem to care or reflect the first amendment but we as students do and i felt it would be incumbent on our sales to do the following. i'm the president of the conservative club and i want to extend an invitation to come to campus and have a platform to speak to students about what her passion in life is about, her mission. exposing the horrendous conditions that muslim women and certain islamic societies live under and that invitation will be sent out tomorrow. she's hearing it here first and that's exactly the policy that universities across the country ought to be adopting -- >> daniel -- daniel, let me ask you because i know you believe brandeis has shown itself as a hypocrite and has a double standard on this issue. >> the double standard is blatant. they said they were honoring him simply for his commitment to furthering human rights across the world and his role in society, not about his political views. desmond tutu had the ocho daudao say tough luck but issues where care gets involved, the university caved. the message is clear, specifically brandeis when known anti-semimites come and get a degree it's okay but when other people speak up especially ms. ali who should be praised to stop female mutilation and stop forced marriage, that's not okay and unacre eptble. >> it's amazing because they don't seem to understand how having undergone those things she might have hard feelings. there is no -- she gets no, you know, understanding from people for being a harsh critic of islam but doesn't get up there and rail on islam but rails on the fact certain factions of it do these awful things to women and it needs to stop. i had a debate where the students at brandeis are behind the decision or not. what are you hearing? >> look, many students are and i've spoken off the record with several major donors that are outraged. have we prescribed an ideal logical test that every recipient of an honorary degree ought to be subjected to just because they have certain controversial positions? look, if that's the standard, then president obama should not be invited to receive an honorary degree, atheist shouldn't and the nsa program at odds with many college students. so perhaps he should not be invited, either. it's really a dangerous president, megyn. >> we'll continue to follow this. the brandeis president refuses to come on camera and defend the decision, which is the least he can do, but the invitation remains open. thank you for being here. >> thank you. the woman in charge of the obamacare rollout is gone. just ahead with new details on what this means and who will replace her. kathleen sebelius is resigning and fallout after attorney general eric holder says racism is to blame. he's intimated it for tough questions he's gotten from republicans. one of those congressman he singled out is here next and he's not happy. war on the range. the dogs are out. guns are out. ranchers and law enforcement are in a tough stand off and we're there live. 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[ applause ] >> what president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? >> joining me now to respond, texas republican congressman louie go mer. your thoughts? >> megyn, i have been trying for over three years to get the documents here in dallas, the largest funding trial of terrorism the country has seen and there were over 100 counts by which the defendants were found guilty, as you mentioned, gosh you do your homework. i would love to have seen you try a case in front of me as a judge. you know the facts. care was named as an unindicted but co-conspirator. they try to have their name withdrawn. the judge in dallas said no, there is plenty of evidence to support that. the fifth circuit court of appeals said no, there is plenty of evidence to support you're a front organization for the muslim brotherhood. what is hamas? the palestinian branch of the muslim brotherhood. anyway, apparently the evidence is profound and we have been trying to get that evidence from eric holder. now, when he says that they -- he's been so mistreated, he does not have evidence. as a judge and a chief justice, i look for evidence. he has none because maybe he was too busy see helping mark rich get a pardon, maybe he's do involved getting terrorist help legally, but maybe he didn't notice. alberto gonzalez, bush's appointment was brutalized by democrats in the senate and house. john ashcroft was brutalized, ed most brutalized, john mitchell may have deserved what he got but he sure got a lot worse treatment than this attorney general. so he makes these assertions like some lawyers do in opening statements, but then the trouble is, when it comes to putting on evidence, he has none. >> do you think he played the race card? >> he didn't say race, and he was very careful about that, and it doesn't matter to me. i can careless. i want to get to the bottom of it, and so that you and everybody else in the country can know exactly what care is, exactly what isna is. we are entitled in congress to see the evidence that his justice department turned over to the defendants that were convicted of terrorism. >> he seemed to be focused more not on what you were asking but the way. he seems to feel you spoke to him disrespectfully. >> listen, i've been asking for this for three years and when i send another letter again last june and they wait until this year to respond -- >> i apologize to have to interrupt you but we're having a hard break in five minutes. thank you for coming on. >> thanks for your homework, megyn. when folks in the lower 48 think about what they get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. thousands of people here in alaska are working to safely produce more energy. but that's just the start. to produce more from existing wells, we need advanced technology. that means hi-tech jobs in california and colorado. the oil moves through one of the world's largest pipelines. maintaining it means manufacturing jobs in the midwest. then we transport it with 4 state-of-the-art, double-hull tankers. some of the safest, most advanced ships in the world: built in san diego with a $1 billion investment. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. and no energy company invests more in the u.s. than bp. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. iprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? 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>> look, i think it's likely that she had already submitted her resignation and expressed her will to be gone. anyone would want to be gone from this. i think something to remember about sebelius is this, yes, the technical side, the part about the website, the blame will always fall on her and liberals will always be upset that she dismerged the rollout after this much-anticipated law. what is wrong with the implantation and much with what is wrong with why the law is unpopular for democrats has zero, zero to do with kathleen sebelius. she will, however, make a good scapegoat and create another opportunity for another relaunch, another rebranding, obamacare 4.0 and say here it comes. >> her pr skills were pretty disastrous. >> not ideal. >> she was caught off guard so many times and misrepresented or misstated significant things to congress but the bravest woman in america tonight is sylvia, the omd director that is willing to step into this new roll. god love her. i don't know why she would want to do that, chris, is she going to have trouble? >> she's from virginia so she's pretty tough. she will get confirmed because they changed the rules to make it easier for democrats to put things through on a party line vote. these will be a goat roping. you mark that down. here is the next prediction. sitting ocn that committee is perhaps the most endangered. ms. haguen is going to be ocbe to have difficult questions. >> the timing is not exactly ideal on this. chris, good to see you. >> you bet. >> how about that? we also have exclusive new e-mailing sustain e-mailing suggesting as the irs was targeting key conservative groups a top democrat was leading the charge. elijah comings is on tape denying he did it but wait until you see the e-mail. ranchers, law enforcement and what some are calling a fight over freedom itself. it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call, or donation adds up to something big. alzheimer's association. the brains behind saving yours. introducing the more everything plan. our best ever plan for families. four lines for only $160 a month. including 10 gigabytes of shareable data. 25 gigabytes of cloud storage to connect all the content you love. unlimited talk. and unlimited international messaging. all so your family can do more-- for less. our best plans. on the best network. for best results, use verizon. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. 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[ zach ] yeah, this definitely beats hanging out on a step ladder. breaking tonight, new developments on the war on the rage as a decade-long dispute between a rancher and the feds reaches a tipping point. on one side, rancher clivan bundy, on the other armed agents looking to round up his cattle arguing he's trespassing. one of bundy's sons is tasered before the feds take off. >> get out of here! get out of here! get out of here! >> the feds are accused of heavy-handed tactics and the ranchers are now getting plenty of support. >> they are trying to take our steward ships and run us off the land that we love best but i'm afraid they will find the hard way that we're still willing to fight for this here west. i hope them fellers son hunt their holes or some of us will lose our souls because killing it ain't right but don't expect to take this land without a fight. >> nevada's governor has weighed in on this saying he was offended when the feds tried to corral protesters in a first amendment area and the feds say they will allow folks on the land northeast of las vegas so long as they don't impede operations but that does not affect what they are going to do with this land. lindsey curtis reports from the scene where moments ago there was a lot of commotion. >> reporter: yeah, megyn, as you saw that in that video, it's certainly been a tense situation. i'm standing in the first amendment zone right now and all day we had proteas tors out here. there were about 100 of them and about 20 minutes ago with signs standing by the bundy family and standing against the burro of land management in the zone. if you take a look over here, it looks like a deserted camp ground because in the last 20 minutes those protesters took off. we're told the assemblywoman men was talking to them and we're going to show you these signs over here. this is where she was standing and addressing them. they were shouting at her telling her that three protesters were arrested earlier this afternoon at over ton beach and she said -- she was standing against the burro of land management and this situation and they were saying -- telling her if that's how she really felt, maybe she could go down there and try to help these people out. so basically, in the last 20 minutes, everyone has taken off from this first amendment zone and headed over to that area. we also have a crew headed out that way, but that's about all the information we have right now, and we will certainly bring you more updates as we get them. what we're told, three protesters have been arrested and the assemblywoman and protesters out here that have been here all week headed that way to help those people out. that's the scene out here, megyn. back to you. >> thank you so much. for more i'm joined by dana lash and hosts dana on the blaze television network and lisa willis. she'll start with dana. people are so outraged and yet, you look at the history of it, dana, and the man lost repeatedly in federal court. they keep telling him look, you either got to pay fees to have your cattle graze on this federal land or we'll come in and seize your cattle and he's refused. >> well, he has paid fees. he's paid fees to nevada county and what is at dispute is bl m's management. if they claim to be good stewards of the land and the land will be beneficial to the american public, the american public isn't benefitting. he's claiming he has title to the easement and maybe he does and that's something perhaps they can work out. they approached this heavy-handed from get-go. if these cattle, blm called them trespass cattle. if they were people and here illegally, the department of justice would be running guns to them and the department of homeland security would be driving by with free government phones and ebt cards. because they are cattle they are rounding them up and killing them, he had thousands of heads that have been reduced dramatically. he's the last rancher in this county because the land management has run off everybody, even those with a a valid claim to easement on the land. what they are doing is ridiculous and it needs to stop. >> they are killing the cattle? >> yeah, multiple reports. i talked to mr. bundy today and he said that's what they think those big old trucks are there for. they have taken 300 cattle from him with intent to destroy. >> the problem for the government as i see it is the law appears, appears to be on the government eastside. >> absolutely on the government eastside. >> and yet the tactics. >> tactics. >> are controversial. >> if they are killing cattle, my grand daddy was a rancher in washington state. i grew up with this. i feel for the bundys, i absolutely do. when i look at the law going back to 1864 in nevada, nevada state law over to the u.s. government any unappropriated lands coming from there and going 1998, two decisions against the bundys, what is the government supposed to do? they told him once, twice and still he doesn't abide by the law. this is a law -- you know, we're a low abiding country and not abiding by the law. >> the feds say if they just sat by and let him sort of stand up and say well, i'm not paying it wouldn't be fair to the other ranchers who are paying fees. >> there are no other ranchers. they have ran them all out. he's paid grazing fees and others to nevada county. another big problem with this is inconsistency. the whole reason this has been done by the burro is to save this desert tortoise which is over populating the area. >> very concerned about the tortoise, right. >> and blm is shutting down the tortoise refuge and euthanizing thousands of them. the reason they are going in there and harassing the bundys is they are killing the tortoises. >> i hate -- >> they still want the cattle on. >> he's not paying federal taxes. you got to pay the federal fees. he's not been doing it. >> at the -- >> he claims otherwise -- >> doesn't own land. >> the thing that jumped out at me, dana, he challenged legally repeatedly and a ruling that came down a couple years ago saying we're sorry sir, you have to pay the fees or get out and he refused even that, so it's been 20 years they have been disputing this. it's not like the feds swooped in and started taking the cattle. it seems like they gave him a lot of chances. >> but it's the whole reason they are claiming this though is a bunk reason. harry reid was able to get them to move the habitat over and i hope folks realize that. they actually moved the boundaries of this habitat for senator harry reid because his friend had a project, development project and they were able to tweak the boundaries and encourage the turtles to move away. these turtles and cattle have been in the same habitat for so long and now it's a problem? ist -- it's a buck reason. >> what do you do as a fed when you go in there? they went in not to get the people off the land but they didn't like the statements they were making about this, they thought they were threatening. you don't respond -- no one was there. they weren't physically threatening. they were saying things the feds didn't like and the feds swoop in and tasers come out, dogs come out. >> absolutely. tactics are wrong. the law is not on their side. tactics are wrong. start killing cattle, then the law may switch over to their side. right now from what i've seen before, you're right about killing the cattle, the law is against them. >> that would be taking -- >> exactly. >> you can take them and give them back but can't take them and kill them. >> right. >> good discussion, ladies, we'll see how this plays out because there are two fronts, legal and the issue of government, big government over reach and over stepping and now we have to deal with it given how we seen this handled. thank you both. we also have stunning new evidence tonight suggesting that a top democrat in congress may have been quietly been leading the way as the irs was harassing a key conservative group. elijah comings denied he was working with the irs to target the group and wait until you see the e-mail that has surfaced. next. >> it must be made publicly known that across this country, citizens just like me are being targeted by an administration willing to take any action necessary to silence opposition. . 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(mom) i'm so excited. explosive allegations of government targeting consecutives. one group repeatedly targeted by the government before the whole scandal broke said government agencies must have been coordinating their efforts including the house committee coordinating with the irs. here is the lawyer for this conservative grown up called true the vote raising this possibility at a hearing in 2014, february. >> we want to get to the bottom of how these coincidences happen and we're going to try to figure out if there was any staff of this committee involved in putting through the vote on the radar screen of some federal agencies. >> the gentleman -- >> yes. >> i want to give the courtesy. what she said is absolutely incorrect and not true. >> all right. now kathryn is the president and founder of true the vote. this is your lawyer and your group has been targeted by the fbi, atf, irs, they came down on you if you were applying for tax exempt status. your lawyer said we fear there is coordination back when they were looking into your group between the irs and you democrats on the house subcommittee, we think you may have been in on it. elijah comings said that is absolutely untrue and this week after the committee accused the irs of with holding e-mails inappropriate they produced some at the last minute including one from lois learner. it's from the house oversight committee person under elijah cummings. the subject is house oversight committee minority staff and what they say is the house oversight committee requested any publicly available information on you, on true the vote and the house oversight come hmittee believes they havey other information publicly available and so on. it's clear that elijah cummings, democrats, wanted information on you and asked the irs for it and yet, he appears to be denying that in that subcommittee hearing. is that correct? >> absolutely. i think i would go beyond he appears to be. he lied. he inpuned me and the work of my organization and he did so with such brazenness that i think we need to call it what it is. he's lying. >> so now you've got the house oversight committee democrats coordinating with the irs. this isn't in the context of investigating what went wrong with the irs. this isn't elijah cummings' group saying let's figure it out. >> that's right. >> this is -- >> go ahead. >> this is the worst, this is the worst, you know t of your fears confirmed that in fact, the weaponization of government is in play. we see the coordination between branchs of government to single out citizens who are exercising their constitutional right. nothingless or more is now. it's outrageous. >> mr. comings initially expressed dismay at what the irs did to conservative groups but not long into the investigation he was quick to dismiss it including in this sound byte from june of 2013. >> based upon everything i seen, the case is solved. if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move on. >> he went on to say he thinks this is a witch hunt and the question is whether, you know, he's the one, he had something to hide. >> absolutely. he had every reason to shut the investigation down before those e-mails that we now know existed were revealed, and he failed in that attempt, and now the truth is beginning to come to light and hind you, megyn, we haven't seen the e-mails yet. i think we are just beginning to recognize the tip of a very ugly iceberg. >> he has said now present day that his committee's contact with the irs was totally appropriate, that they did nothing wrong and they were only asking for publicly available information on your group. so, you know, how do you take the leap from that? i understand that he seemed to deny it but putting the denial aside, what he did at the time asking for publicly available information about your group, what was wrong with that? >> well, i mean, two things jump out at me. first in just the e-mails that we've seen, there is an awful lot of information that's being hidden by the black bars of redax that suggest public information was not the on thing shared, private information was shared because it's being redacted. if he's so confident his actions were appropriate, why lie about it? >> i know you feel this is basically the weaponization of government and that you say this is not over. you're not going to be intimidated or retreat. what do you mean by that? >> exactly what i say. this is -- what i have been -- what i have experienced in the last three years, the organization of the federal government to target me in my efforts, this is something, megyn, that is not just happening to me. it's happening to thousands of people, maybe more than that across this country, and so with everything that i have, i'm going to continue to point out that these are the times that we really have to do a soul check of what we are as a country. this used to be a country where citizens were lotted for being engaged and now we're targeted. >> thank you for being here. >> thanks. >> just want to correct myself. that e-mail we showed was from an irs official to another lois learner but steak with discussions on the oversight committee, democrats. next, the possible major breakthrough on the saga of the missing malaysia airlines flight. wait until you hear this. nt fas, the long shirt. designed to flatter, with playful hemlines and length for everybody. the new long shirt. visit the shirt boutique, only at chico's and chicos.com. new developments tonight on the missing malaysia plane, picking up a ping that could be the black box. trace has more. >> we talked to an expert that has the world record for the deepest recovery ever and said this is great evidence. when he says that those pings that we're picking up are unmistakably from flight 370, it's very convincing argument. what he is saying is we have to listen to the pings, and i want you to hear then because they sound very much like little clicks. play this. he says the only reason the families of the passengers aren't being told they found the plane is because they are such an emotional roller costar, they want to show them physical proof but says they have the location. listen to him. >> i have absolutely no doubt about this and this is an opinion shared by the people on the vessel, they located where this plane crashed. now what they are trying to do is refine that so the subsequent phases are done as quickly as possible. >> but recovering the black boxes won't be easy because the plane is thought to be in 15,000 feet of water, that's a half mile deeper than titanic and it's 12 empire state buildings deep. step one is to use high-resolution cameras to map the floor and send a larger unmanned sub to get the black boxes. once they are analyzed, they will decide to go back down. the captain said the final words, said good night malaysia 370. >> unbelievable. trace, thanks. we'll be right back. because when you buy the new samsung galaxy s5 on verizon, you get a second samsung galaxy s5 for free. so, who ya gonna give it to? 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