0 i think we are a little unfairly picking on these guys. >> okay. these are employees going a conference and i would give career advice if you go to a conference and asked to participate in a line dancing video, don't do it. you on the other hand have participated in things like this. >> many times when i worked at certain companies, and i hope they are never found. >> that's true. >> the po nie t bob was about to make that $15 million is a drop in the bucket is an argument against big government. by creating a giant bucket, it is a drop. that is the strategy of keeping a government alive. this is an argument, this video is an argument of limiting the size of government. there is hardly any money left for michelle obama's vacations when you see this. but there is no bus large enough to throw these people under. you can't keep throwing these low-level staffers under a bus. it would be the size of cinncinati. which is why i am defending these poor folks. you know these people in these videos are nice people. they go to work every day -- >> not if they audited me. >> let me finish. you can sit there -- no, because then you are falling in line with the administration. you are blaming these people. they are people that have families and are doing work and it is the machinery of the irs that needs to be destroyed. >> you haven't been audited jie. it is not these people. >> you haven't been audited. >> maybe you deserved to be audited. >> i have been audited once in my life and it was last year. >> it is not the people at fault. it is the irs. it is the administration who create a climate for this to go after and make fun of these people is way too easy. >> let me not blame the administration and ask eric about something. $$50 million over two years. the irs doesn't write a check. it is congress who amount of money for the conferences. the white house and treasury says they cut way back, almost 80% on conferences like this. let's just say that america was a business. if the shareholders found out the business was wasting time teaching employees how to line dance at the conference rather than focusing on growing the business and earning a profit, what would a shareholder do? >> first of all let's clear this up. $$50 million for the conferences. we give the irs several billion dollars a year for operating expenses and paying salaries and things like that. the 50 million is so they can go on these junkets and do things like that. training, yes. what happens is they have such disdain for the american people and such a contempt that it is almost like a class warfare. it is us, the irs and all of you little people, we will treat you like the way we do, greg, and i have to take issue with that. the irs agents probably most people have come across aren't nice, sweet people. they look for reasons to nail, and they give you fines and penalties. they are not a nice group of people. >> i am talking about -- i hate the irs. what i am talking about is i feel bad for these people who are in or involved in some kind of stupid conference, this skit, that they don't really know -- i agree with you on this. $50 million, 220 conferences over three years is seven conferences a month. what are the conferences about? they are about more conferences. it is like a hooker who takes drugs to turn tricks to buy more drugs. politics is survival of the destructive. >> it is about more -- figuring out different ways to extrajt more of your hard earned tax dollars. >> i agree jie. that is not by nature a nice thing. dennis had a million dollars and put a million dollars into a party fund. he took a million dollars -- >> who is he? >> he ran tyko back in the day. took a million dollars from the company, $1 million. he spent six years behind bars for wasting company money and using it the way these guys did. he threw a lavish birthday party with people wearing togas and whatnot. he went to jail. that's how the private sector deals with that. >> i don't know how specific it is, but i bet the fortune 500 companies -- >> well remember in the financial crisis some of the banks got in trouble because they had big parties and they were planned and were bailed out by the taxpayers and they had spa manicures and pedicures and they got in trouble for that. sitting there so patiently to make a comment in the block, thoughts on this overall. you were being very polite. what do you think? >> i have -- i abhor government waste. i think it is arrogance. i am not trying to blame the individuals that work for the irs, even though they are not kind to me, but nevertheless why do you need to do line dancing? how is this okay? if you look at the private sector, let's go team building and line dancing, how about processing the cases accurately or on time? no wonder nothing is getting done. no wonder my case was sheers signed off -- she herself signed off on this one. >> putting them together the juxtaposition of who gets trampled on and who gets put through and who gets favored status. when you are in the white house you will hookup a family member. i am not surprised jie. how many are running up to sign off on that one? >> at the same time they can't claim there is no political insight. >> they will say i take the fifth. >> it is not about governing under the obama administration, it is about politics. the right disdains government so it doesn't use it as a weapon. the left loves government and use itself to enforce political ideas. it is why government violence is more likely to come from the left than the right. it is no longer government. it is chicago on balt -- bath salts. >> i like balt salts. >> you started to see some of the employees who are asking to remain anonymous, they are coming forward and talking to the press and some of the investigators into this saying this is not something we made up. have some evidence. >> everybody needs to get buttoned up because they are writing checks they can't cash. there is new information released on all sides of this. america just wants answers. >> what worries me is i hope the scandals do not hurt president obama's chance for a nobel prize. >> i think it is a lock. >> the suffering he has gone through will make him win this one. >> we will keep talking about this. darrell issa tore into carney over his responses to the irs scandal. he is a, quote, paid liar, and mr. carney was asked about it and his response is coming um next. dark