fund-raising to complete the 15-floor center, but the doors are open to the community. imam feisal abdul rauf is no longer associated with the project, but he still stands by it and explains why. he has a brand-new book, called "moving the mountain: beyond ground zero to a new vision of islam in america." imam feisal abdul rauf is here. i didn't think you would ever come to this program. you know, i have been very critical of you. you know that? >> well, i'm here to straighten the record. >> sean: i'm glad you are. i have read in a recent interview that you said, you said, americans have -- on the question of americans treating muslims, you went on to praise them. you said, look, i go out the way americans have treated the muslim community is amazing. >> indeed. indeed. that's what i say whenever i travel to speak, which i have done on many, many occasions. our enemy is not islam. islam is not the enemy and americans are not the enemy of islam. our real enemy is extremism and radicalism. this is the common enemy. the battleground is not between muslims and americans. the battle is between the moderates of all faiths against the extremists of all faightses? >> here's where i run into a problem. how could you have gone on "60 minutes" after the slaughter of 3,000 americans and say, the united states and their policies were an accessory to what happened? i have the tape -- i can show the tape. let's roll it. >> i wouldn't say that the united states deserved what happened. but the united states' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened. >> you can say we are an accessory? >> yes. >> how? because we have been accessory to a lot of innocent lives... dying in the world. in fact, in the most direct sense, osama bin laden is made in the usa. >> sean: osama bin laden -- you are blaming us?! with that statement? you are blaming america! for the 3,000 dead americans. >> sean, i regret saying that. you know, we need to -- i offer forgiveness and ask to be forgiven. >> sean: why have you never said that? >> i have. i have said that. >> sean: i have never said that. >> i said that on cnn. i did say that was a devastating thing to say and i am sorry for having said that. >> sean: i appreciate that. >> again, the thing that has caused this is our common enemy, extremism. we have to combat extremism. we can combat it. the fact of the matter that 60 muslims died on 9/11. in islam, in a small mosque near ground zero for almost 30 years. this neighborhood, sean, is my neighborhood. it's my country. and i-- you talk in your book, this is where i am having a conflict with you, you talk about bringing everybody together. i separate radical islamist, i separate hamas and hezbollah and the muslim brotherhood and al qaeda. i separate that from people who want to pursue their faith. i'm a christian. they're muslim. there are peaceful muslims. here's the problem, though. you have been given multiple opportunities to condemn hamas. have you never done it. >> i have. >> sean: no! you were in a radio interview with aaron cline on my flagship station and you wouldn't do it. >> after that, i did. >> sean: after that? why are you changing that? >> well, look, again any -- any organization or any individual that targets civilians and kills them for political agenda is a terrorist-- hamas is a terrorist organization? >> yes, it is. >> sean: hezbollah in. >> yit is. >> sean: and muslim brotherhood is a terrorist organization. >> to the extent. >> sean: "yes" or "no." no, no, no. >> my parents are from egypt. there are different wings of the muslim brotherhood. >> sean: they have elected to parliament, their first act was to declare israel their enemy. >> there are different stratas. there is a young group coming up today that is very different from how they have engaged. within any community -- like the republicans or democrats, there are right wing, there are middle of the roads and there are people who are more liberal. any group. we have to engage with those who near power because we have to create the change. >> sean: look -- >> you create the change by engaging with people. >> sean: first -- how do you -- this is important. how do you possibly ng engage with, let's say hamas? you know, i look at the united states very differently. this is what frustrated me by your comments that you are apologizing for in "60 minutes" because america liberated kuwait. we helped in coze kosovo and iraq and afghanistan. you know, america -- blood, sweat, tear, the financial burden. we offer financial assistance to egypt for all of their years that they were at peace with israel. we have facilitated peace. we don't get credit. you say osama bin laden was made in the usa -- that angers me. >> i'm sorry it angered you. i am sorry i said it. i said i'm sorry. but we have to solve the problem of extremism. there are good, important stories to say how americans and muslims have cooperated successfully. let me tell you a story, sean, at the height of the crisis 2 years ago, when the florida -- a very volatile situation, who came up and stepped in? my friend jim wallace, an evangelical christian, a close friend said to me, we will intervene because we are evangelical. he's part of our community. he will interject and help -- >> sean: that's a good story. >> what came out of it? muslims and indians, kashmirs heard about it. they went and volunteered to create a neighborhood church. so my point is that the extremists fuel each other. we have to get -- we have to find a way, sean, you and i have to find a way to get those of us who are moderates, who are peace loving to work together to build those-- let me tell you -- >> we can do that. >> sean: you talk about the muslim brotherhood. i want you to acknowledge that they are extremists. they said, while this arab spring was going on, quote, prepare for war with israel. that's what they were saying. we saw the violence in the square. i knew what was going to happen. i was right. more importantly, their first act of parliament to say that israel is their enemy, cutting off their energy supplies to israel, saying that the camp david accords are dead, gone, buried. now they are going to have an extremist that wants to apply shirria law. i would argue it will be an extreme version in egypt. that's the rise of radical islamists. >> the good news is that for the first time in 5,000 years, egyptians are voting for their president-- voting for a radical islamist i. the muslim brotherhood candidate is in the lead for a very important lead-- the person in the lead is even more extreme. >> the point is, this is a democracy. building a democracy, sean, is messy. but the fact is that there are many important trends happening right now in the arab and muslim world. and shirria is -- it's about protecting six objectives. >> sean: we have to take a break. we will come back and continue with imam feisal abdul rauf. and karl rove will be here. he unveils the strategy that he says will give mitt romney a win in november. and later, don't miss this -- comedian pam gillette calls the president a hypocrite. hear his rant about obama's admitted drug use. he's here tonight on "hannity." have you ever partaken in a car insurance taste test before? 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[ male announcer ] it's festival of shrimp! for $12.99 try any two shrimp creations like new barbeque glazed shrimp. offer es soon. we're servers at red lobster. and we sea food differently. >> sean: welcome back to "hannity." we continue with imam feisal abdul rauf. one of the things that concerns me, the leader for the presidency in egypt wants sharia law. we see sharia applied in saudi arabia, where women can't drive cars, where they can't be seen in public with men they are not married to, where, you know, in other case, women in afghanistan can't work, can't go to school. we see in iran, people's hands get chopped off. if you get raped as a woman, you need four male eyewitnesses that a rape happened. would you want separate sharia courts. >> this understanding of sharia is incorrect. >> in most -- there have been 7 or 9 muslim presidents in muslim countries-- that's not what i am asking. >> there are muslim women driving in every country, except saudi arabia. this is not islam, this is the cultural aspects. sharia is not defined by the penal code any more than american law is defined-- [overlapping dialogue] >> sean: american law and our -- >> on the contrary -- i wrote a chapter on this-- i read it. >> i show that the american system of government, the american declaration of independence, the principles of democracy expresses the deepest values of the sharia, both structure all and in the government-- you are dodging my question. would you want sharia courts in america? >> sharia requires muslims anywhere to abide by the law of the land. this is what we are required to do. no american muslim wants to introduce the penal code here. sharia law stands for six major objectives, sean, the protection and furtherance of life, of religion, of family, of property, of intellect and of dignity. these are the things which life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is really all b. i have a whole chapter dedicated to this because i want to see what egypt and libya and tunissia evolve into the kinds of countries which expresses our values because our values, i think are the attributes of the saria. >> sean: you give a speech in australia. we tend to forget that the united states has more muslim blood on its hands than al qaeda has on its hands of innocent, non-muslims. i think of that and i think of america's sacrifices as i mentioned earlier for kuwait, afghanistan, iraq, for kosovo, indonesia and many of the muslim countries. and that infuriates me, considering america's sacrifice for the muslim world. >> that's very true. i apologize for having said that. >> sean: that, too? >> that, too-- then why did you say this originally? >> listen, we all grow and learn in wisdom, sean. we all -- no human being does not regret things he said-- i am guilty of that. but this is a radical departure -- >> look, i have also been on the record say that this americans have supported muslims in bosnia and in afghanistan. >> sean: yeah, kosovo. >> and kosovo and the protection of human rights-- and egypt. we give egypt billions of dollars in aid. >> that is true. that is true. we acknowledge, we acknowledge -- why do you think most people from muslim country when is they want to leave their countries because of the terrible conditions, they want to come to america. this is the land of the free. we all want this kind of freedom. >> sean: is jihad, holy war, infiderks all the things we read in the koran -- you address all of this. as i read this, so many people interpret it literally, taking neither christians nor jews for your friends. okay? this is all in the koran. when i read this and i hear extremists quote this and use this as a justification to kill innocent men, women and children, thinking 72 virgins await them in heaven. you commented on barbara walters -- well, you get whatever you want. you gave an interview with barbara walters and you even were talking about it in a speech. you said, well, the question was, what do women get? you said, the quote says you get whatever you want. but isn't that referring to killing innocent women and children? >> no, no. in paradise, you get whatever you desire. >> sean: not jihad, strapping bombs on your shoulder to kill people? >> not at all. our common enemy, our common enemy, sean, is extremism. there is a battle within the muslim world today, between the moderates and the extremists. it is an important battle. we have to wage-- last question. is radical islam as bad as i think? widespread as i believe it is? >> it exists -- widespread? >> well, we are wing the battle. we are winning the battle. the moderates are winning the battle, between the law enforcement and the muslim leaders, this battle is being won. >> sean: i don't see t. i hope you are right. i pray you are right because the world needs safety from the razzicallism or there will be a world war. >> we have to win this. we have to win this war, sean. >> sean: appreciate your forthrightness and apal gee. i think if has clarified a lot. coming up, pen gillette skewered the president for enthusiastically doing drugs. find out why when he sits down right here, next on "hannity." you know, we're a little early for this thing... want to hop in the back and get weird? 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[ male announcer ] in a world filled with "no," it's nice to finally say "yes." new oscar mayer selects hotdogs. made with 100% beef and no artificial preservatives. it's yes food. made with 100% beef and no artificial preservatives. now's the time to move from to where you want to go. look up. with u.s. bank let's get the wheels turning. use our strength & stability to open new opportunities. to lend, and lift ...every business...every dream... to new heights of prosperity. good things are happening. just look up. with u.s. bank. havputs you at 5 timesartbeat calgreater risk of stroke. don't wait. go to afibstroke.com for a free discussion guide to help you talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. that's afibstroke.com. >> sean: more bad election news for team obama as the president suffered another embarrassing primary on tuesday night, following a near loss to keith judd in the west virginia primary, the races in kentucky and arkansas yesterday were no better. in kentucky, president obama lost 42% of the vote to voters who chose to be uncommitted. in the state of arkansas, 41% of voters voted for the challenger, a guy named john wolf, over president obottom a. in the end, the president won both, but there is no ignore that this american people are no longer so sure about -- well, four more years of hope and change. joining me with details on the 3-2-1 electoral strategy that he says is a key to the mitt romney win. the author of "courage and consequence," fox news and contributor, the one and only architect. good to see nut studio. >> good to be here. i am getting nervous here. >> sean: it's going to be on the air, first thing in the morning. better, better. >> sean: electoral victory is everything. >> look, it's not my strategy. i am looking at the map and seeing how does romney get from here to victory? an easy way to think about it is 3-2-1, take 3 historically republican states in the obama column -- indzian anorth carolina and virginia. it's a shift of 39 electoral college votes. 78 in the electoral college if you take 39 away from obama and add them to the republicans. 2-- one second, before you get to 2. 3, indiana, i think is a slam dunk. north carolina, slam dunk. northern virginia worries me. >> that will be a bathground to the end. the democracies have a problem in vrmg virge in that the number of voters in fairfax county, the big driver of change in virginia is declining. there are 35,000 fewer active voters in fairfax county today than there were 3 1/2 years ago. >> sean: how many points did obama win -- >> about 6. but in the other 2, it's less than a point in indiana and 3/10%. >> sean: slam dunk for mitt romney. >> no, but as long as they work at it. florida and ohio, tough states in '08 for him. he won florida by 2.8%. a new poll in florida-- i will put it up on the screen. >> yeah. then ohio, where it's the race is now, you know, closed. 47-41. the squibb piac, they were tied a month ago. after the end of the republican party, there has been a consellation. romney is 2 points behind on the latino voters. there are a lot of cube arngs but obama won by 20 points and now he is winning by 2. >> sean: remember, romney is winning, depending on the poll, between 7 and 10 points among independents, very, very important. and interestingly, in spite of the war on women, he is ahead with women. >> independent women. moved up to pretty dramatically. look, there is a gender gap that has been there every step of the way and nobody talks about it. that's a huge deficit that president obama has among men. now we are seeing the gender gap among women, particularly among independent women being erased. >> sean: you know, have you to say something here. when you have, for example, what happened on "meet the press" on sunday with cory booker and harold ford junior and steve rattner and it gets longer and longer. you look at a prison inmate, pulling the numbers in west virginia and ken tucky and arkansas. >> right. i would be very nervous. i was talking to a really smart observer of politics via email. he says, this reminds me of the 1994 democratic primary, where ann richards ran poorly. she was unopposed. kentucky was uncommitted and. virginia, an inmate in the beaumont correctional facility. in arkansas, it's a perennial candidate from tennessee. it's one thing if president obama had -- romney got roughly the same percentage of vote in kentucky. but he was 55 points ahead of ron paul. whose name is still on the ballot. as long as their names are on the ballot, they are going to vote for them. but these are uncommitted... a guy in the federal pokey and a candidate that nobody's ever heard of, voting against -- now, i love the obama campaign response which was, doesn't matter, we are not going to win-- it's b.s. about the debt. $5 trillion in debt. i don't think that's going to fly. that's a campaign ad there. let me showue i showed last night the crossroads ad, of which you know a thing or two. but this is the romney campaign. i thought this was very effective. let's look. >> this is not a distraction. this is what this campaign's going to be about. >> cutbacks. >> they have lost their houses. they have zero credit. they can't find jobs. >> i have a hard time, in order to make ends meet. >> i have been looking for a job for 2 years, haven't found. >> seen too many small businesses go out of business. >> hard-working, good people -- they have had to go into foreclosure and bankruptcy. >> i just lost my job recently. >> all said and done. i had to file my own personal bankruptcy, close my business. >> i expected great things from the president when he was elected. now it doesn't -- it's a feeling of disappointment that he hasn't been able to fulfill all the things, all the changes that he talked about. >> sean: all of these ads seem to be devastating because, you know, like your ad the other night, the president in his own words, the economy hasn't turned around. people understand it. >> the most powerful part of this ad is the woman at the end who clearly, these issue ordinary people, not act othese are ordinary people, she is saying, i am disappointed in him. president obama made two mistakes at the nato meeting. first of all, allowing the press to ask him a political question. he should have brushed it off and said, look there are plenty of time for politics, this is a meeting of nato, let's save that question for another day. instead, he made the bigger mistake, which was to say, yeah, this campaign is going to be about bain. that's what this is all about. wait a minute. that's not what the american people are looking at. they are saying this is about the future of our country and how are we going to put people back to work and get the economy stronger and get our fiscal house in order and deal with the terrible overhang of obamacare? that's what they think it's about, not him conducting personal character assassination and distortions on mitt romney. i thought it was appalling and a big mistake on his part. i think the romney campaign took his comment at the beginning and then it puts the contrast between him, all about him. this is what my campaign's going to be about. i don't have anything good it say about the future or the past, this is what it's all about. and everybody else, putting it in context, this is what it ought to be about. >> sean: karl rove, good to have you. >> how do you think we are going to be rated? >> sean: coming up -- >> if he had done time in prison -- time! for his weed and a little blow, he would not be president of the united states! of america. >> he rips the president for his hypocrital stance on drugs. coming up, penn gillette will tell us why he's so mad and michelle al-maliki comcomes by. s and corrects for wheel slip. we imagined a vehicle that can increase emergency braking power when you need it most. and e imagined it looking like nothing else on the road today. s ask me how i've never 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[ male announcer ] tempur-pedic -- the most highly recommended bed in america. >> i discovered that it didn't make any difference whether you smoked refer in a sparkling new van or with a brother you met at the gym or on the beach with a couple of hawaiian kid who is dropped out of school and now spend most of their time looking for an excuse to brawl. >> sean: that's president obama. my next guest has a real issue with the president's admission of drug use. >> i say weed, i say blow. it's all a big deal -- ha-ha-ha! huge laugh from the college students. if he had been busted under his laws, he would have done hard [bleep] time. and if he had done time, in prison, time in federal prison, time for his weed and a little blow, he would not be president of the united states of america! and he would not have gone to his fancy [bleep] college. he would not have sold books that sold millions and millions of copies and made millions and millions of dollars. he would not have a great job. he would have been [bleep] prison. it is not a [bleep] joke! >> sean: joining me the author of god no. the always controversial penn jillette. i never understood this red -- painted nail. what the heck is ha? >> i wear my dad's ring. pinky ring and my mom's nail polish. when i was a child, 16, i started to do a lot of close-up magic. and my mother said, people are looking at your hands, keep your nails nice. i said, you mean like this, mom? i painted my nail to mock her. it turns -- so often, from teenaged years, mockery turned to respect. it was my way of just showing my love for her. >> sean: that's a great story. >> she died the first day of 2000. >> sean: i didn't know what to make of it. i am sure everybody's asked you that. >> it's a guy who loves his mom a lot. >> sean: no, no. [overlapping dialogue] >> i show it that way. >> sean: all right. let me ask you about obama. >> uh-huh? i know you are libertarian. >> yes, i am. >> sean: you told me, you are interested in the libertarian candidate, perhaps for president. >> i i think gary john sop's pretty good. their personal beliefs don't matter if they have a real strong theory of government. i mean, ron paul, i can disagree with on creationism because i know that ron paul wants to -- you know, circumscribe where government is. so his opinions don't matter. >> sean: you know and i know -- and neil bortz is in the studio, he's a libertarian friend of mine. gary johnson's not going to win. isn't that a half vote for obama. think about this $5 trillion in debt, this country is on the way to,r being greece. why vote for him? >> i believe that voting for the lesser evil will lead to more evil. do the math. >> sean: repealing obamacare. >> i actually believe that romney is a fabulous candidate, then you should vote for him. i don't. most of the stuff i disagree with obama on, i also disagree with romney on. to me, they are much more similar than they are to you. >> sean: my fear about governor romney, this is an opportunity for him to be a great president. but this is not a time for half measures to save the country from being greece. that would mean, he has to cut government spending, balance the budget, stop borrowing 40 cents on every dollar, eliminate health care. if he doesn't do it, i will be disappointed as a conservative. >> i am sure you will be. a libertarian is far right as you can go on money and as far left as you can go on sex. take a left on sex and right on money. >> sean: that's too much information. i don't think your mother would appreciate that. >> i mean socially. every question that comes up politically, from a moral point of you, not pragmatic, i ask myself -- is there any way to solve this issue with more freedom instead of less? >> sean: i love that question. >> just ask that question first -- is there any way to give the people more freedom. >> sean: but the country has been conditioned to believe that government is the answer to their problems. >> i hear you -- i hear you often use the word morality. my argument with you on that would be morality cannot be legislated. morality-- agreed. >> it has to be individual. it has to be from the heart. you can't bring the government in to try to-- if everyone lived your way and i have to break. i want to have you back -- >> sure. >> sean: i talked to you early and i said, thomas payne says we are the guys who dictate the conscience, there wouldn't be any need for any lawmaker. >> what percentage of people are good? i say the vast majority. that may be my difference. >> sean: instinctively, but human beings have a proclivity towards evil. >> i tend to be so pollyanna-ish and optimistic-- i really enjoyed -- you want to throw? i am not going to throw it at you. next time, do a magic trick. i would love to see you in vegas. >> please do. >> sean: we take a look at the president's standoff over the catholic church and the contraception mandate with michelle malkin, straight ahead. . . the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. gives you a 50% annual bonus. and who doesn't want 50% more cash? ugh, the baby. huh! and then the baby bear said, "i want 50% more cash in my bed!" phhht! 50% more cash is good ri... what's that. ♪ you can spell. 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[ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today. >> sean: as we continue to vet the president. we take a look at obama's dismal record on religious freedoms. the contraceptive mandate has caused catholic institutions to file lawsuits. one organization bringing the lawsuit is notre dame university, which tried to work with the president originally in regard to the mandate. and the religious backlash seems to be mounting. catholics called to witness released a video, calling on voters to oppose the president this november. take a look. >> sean: here with reaction is the author of the number-1 new york times best seller, cultural corruption, michelle malkin. i am trying to understand politically, you have the contraceptive mandate, gay marriages rejected by 31, 32 states. look at the numbers. should freedom of religion super seed government laws? it's simple, 74-26, pretty simple, pretty obvious. question that i want to know, why do you think the president is doing this. i have my theory. i am curious if we agree? >> yeah, well, i am not a mind reader. and in this white house, we have such a convoluted mind. but i think that they have made a very misguided calculation that pandering to the sandra flukes of the world will pay off more for them at the ballot box in november than respecting the religious liberty of millions of americans in this country. and in particular, i am thinking of 540,000 people of faith in the religious health care provider services. it is -- it is mined boggling that they don't see that compromising on the core american values is causing the backlash that we are seeing now. >> sean: here's my theory because the president has failed. he can't get independents. polls are beginning to show that. i think the president's made a decision to energize his base. but that is not working when you look at a convicted felon in west virginia getting 40% of the vote. arkansas, kentucky last night. the president realizes his only hope is to get every liberal in the country -- so he is reaching out to them. am i wrong? >> right. sure. i think that is of a piece of what i talked about, going after it is sandra fluke constituency, which is a fringe minority of americans in this country. so, yes, what he is doing is trying to solidify twhafer base he has left. in the meantime, i think this is a huge opportunity for the republican party and mitt romney to appeal to that broad majority of people who are offended at the tyranny and the trampling on basic constitutional rights and one of the most cherished principles of this nation out of our founding fathers, religious liberty. >> sean: you did not support governor romney in the primary. he's the republican candidate. where do you stand with him? you are a very powerful, very strong, outspoken conservative voice with a strong constituency. where are with you this election? >> i tell you what, i have heard from so many santorum supporters who want to make sure that their issues are represented and respected as we get into the general election, they don't want to be abandoned and thrown under the bus like mccain did in 2008. i just -- this weekend read a fabulous book by phillip cline, a young conservative writer at "the examiner," who made the case for survival in the romney era. what that entails is saying, yes, of course he's better than barack obama. but we will not hesitate or refrain to call him to the carpet when he tries to abandon our principles, when he is appealing to moderates. i think that the point is that you can espouse very proudly and unaapproximately jetically free market principles and social conserveatism and point to the corruption and the abuses of power of this administration. and be clear to people that you remain a proud conservative while you are doing so. >> sean: all right. always good to see you. i want to see "cultural corruption 2." you are not granting my request? >> read my blog and twitter page. you know that's where we are. >> sean: i want -- i want the hard copy. it's time. we need it before the election. thank you. >> yeah. >> sean: when we come back, let not your heart be troubled, our great, great, great american pam's coming up next. it with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf's pizza palace gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! pizza!!!!! 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[ male announcer ] even with technology -- it's all you. that's why you've got us. get up to $200 dollars off select computers. staples that was easy. >> sean: we have angela mcglowan here. a former pollster for president jimmy -- coughing -- carter. fox news complainer pat caddell. he is a columnist for amack and author of outnumbered, jedediah bila. i want to start with you, you didn't like the topics i chose -- >> no, no. >> sean: you got cut back one segment. go ahead, take over. you were whining and complaining by obam a. so go ahead. >> i practice it. >> sean: all right. you were sayingism i think that romney is doing better than anyone thinks. >> sean: i do, too. >> they seem to have gotten their act together a little bit. i thought the recent ad that you showed earlier, the difference between it and the crossroads ad is real people and those people are really hurting. the president to the president on bain, when he attacks. if they take that same modeling and you get into chrysler and things like giving away deals and green energy -- you know, the president's leading with his chin on this. but they have him reeling on the debt. i have never seen him on the offensive. this puts together a message. >> sean: how ridiculous did she he sound. >> he always sounds ridiculous. people want results. and romney does not sound like he's on the defensive. he is on the offensive saying, this is what i can do. obama's a likeable person, but he has failed. give me a chance. >> a lot of people were concerned about romney's ability to galvanize the base. now i am seeing that he really can. he spoke about education recently and was talking about vouchers. he really felt like he was present in the mome. that's the first time i thought he can-- my fear is -- look, i don't want to sound tential here. i keep hearing rob portman. rob portman is boring. >> no, he can't do that. >> i like rob portman. >> sean: i like rob portman. >> err to be cautious is not a strategy. everybody's saying, you have to be cautious. no. you don't have to be really -- [overlapping dialogue] >> i think -- >> he needs somebody to help with blue collar people. i can give you a half dozen people -- you think trump would -- >> no, he would not be number 2. >> i will tell thu, i will tell thu, sean, can you imagine him against joe biden? can you imagine -- he gets under obama's skin. what do you want a vice-presidential candidate to do? you want him to take on the vice-president. >> he wouldn't be number 2. he's donald trump. >> if you are big enough to take someone that big, you're all right. >> sean: i want his tie collection. you agree rubio? >> i think he needs to be not too cautious. >> sean: how about jeb bush? >> no. >> i like jeb bush -- >> not bush. he would be on his way to the white house. >> he blames his brother. now he can blame jeb. but rubio could reach out to blue collar workers and across party lines, to latinos and blacks as well. >> he is very well spoken and articulate, i think the left-wing eliteville a very hard time atabbing him. >> he has given romney the chance to be presidential, with the osama bin laden stuff, with the nato conference, and starts using it to attack his opponent. no other president has ever done this early in a campaign, much less at an official event as the head of state in the united states. you know, romney needs to do more of it himself. i think the education thing was good. you know what he said on the first day -- he should have said that on the ad? i think everything this president is doing is backfiring. even the dog -- backfired. >> the war on women that he invented? >> gay marriage, backfiring. >> yeah, they are trying to -- this class warfare nonsense, it is under the big umbrella of class warfare. >> when you can't stand on policy, you use gimmicks. the gimmicks are backfiring on him. >> sean: wait a minute. think about this. >> okay. >> sean: you have a convicted felon from texas -- >> this is what i want to talk about -- [overlapping dialogue] >> sean -- i have been saying for months, there are a large number of democrats who are upset with him and unhappy. they are being registered. they are not swing states, but they represent a lot of voters. when he is losing 40% of the vote in kentucky in a democratic primary, where no one has money, against unknown people, felons -- >> this-- this guy from tennessee. >> romney needs to find a way because he is not good at appealing to those voters. if he does, he wins. >> we can't be too confident. >> romney has to step up. he has a business record. so if barack obama is going to use bain capital -- well, good luck. >> sean: democrats said, it's nauseating, cory booker i. across party lines. this is ridiculous. >> the problem is -- the problem is for a man who has never been in the private sector, ever, it's a hard argument to make [overlapping dialogue] >> liberals do very