Welcome back, rick is our personal forecaster. Freezing out there. Tucker your own weatherman. Rick i dont know, where . People are starting their weekend and its going to be cold out there. Rick especially in florida coldest night of the year so far, northern half of florida tonight. Alisyn yikes. Southern alabama. Clayton join us for the after the show show. More weather in the after the show show foxnews. Com. Tucker coming up. The pushing the president clinton mum to the max. President obama repeating calls today for a 24 hike in the federal minimum wage to 9 an hour. Some folks here say dont raise it, get rid of it and that will really help jobs. Are they right . Hi, everyone, im brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears. Lets get right to it. Here they are the bulls and bears this week, gary b smith. John layfield. Jonas max ferris along with Larry Glazier and caroline. Gary b, forget hiking the minimum wage, you say scrapping it altogether is how to get better paying jobs. States with the highest minimum wage in many cases, higher than the current minimum wage that the fed, federal government outlines has higher unemployment than those states with lower minimum wage. Look, its simple economics, something which this Current Administration doesnt understand. When you raise the cost of labor, you have a surplus of labor, thats true in comments, stocks, whatever. When you have a surplus of labor, what do you have, brenda . You have higher unemployment and simple as that, this administration doesnt understand. So what do you think of that, caroline, would this help or hurt unemployment if we just got rid of the minimum wage . Well, i think that would be a terrible idea and i disagree with gary b. Actually those studies have experienced thats a relationship, other variables causing those differences because two decades of Rigorous Research indicate he when you do it in a planful way and mild way and raise the minimum wage that it has a positive effect on the local economy. Positive effects in terms of lower training costs and turnover and less lost time at work and dedicated employees, so small businesses, mid size and Large Businesses benefit from in, as well as local government because they dont have as many people relying on social services. So, the data doesnt back that up. In fact, its a positive thing he when we do it in a planful fashion to raise the minimum wage. On this issue, just like an economist. On the one hand, on the other hand, there are studies on both sides. But jonas there is an argument that higher minimum wages reducing turnover, which lessens the costs of employers and could increase employments. You would never leave the job if you could get it, its a pretty good wage. Negatives and benefits. Both sides of kind of right. If the minimum wage is low 2, it wouldnt disrupt the job market. If its 50, high unemployment, but a theres obviously a level between there where the negatives would exceed the positives. There are positives, workers would get more money under the plan and not outsourced to china. You need somebody in the stores, some benefit, but a lot of of losers, higher unemployment, certainly at some point, and other negatives. I sort of think they should get to the bottom of the research and do both. Index it to inflation which they should do anyway and lets certain politicians benefit it, saying theyre going to raise it every few years, if it raises the Unemployment Rate in a couple of years, get rid of it and prove its bad for the economy and we could kind of see what could happen. Maybe it it should be indicated to average wages instead of inflation. John, is it more black and white . Should we hike it or scrap it . Whats better for the job market . I think a hybrid of it. And what you hit on, brenda, i think is the best thing to do and that is index it to average wages. And how far most people said. The data does not support this. The white house, the only study they could find is the 2010 study that had more people debunking it, than people saying its a real study and the earned income tax credit does more than lower income people than raising the minimum wage and look, we have almost 50 Million People in poverty right now and the only thing the administration can do is say, well, we cant create any jobs, so lets just have people pay people more and this is not the way to do it. We have 21 , young person unemployment and 40 africanamerican young person unemployment and this hurts. Ill get to you in a minute, but i want caroline to have a chance to respond to some of these comments. I would very much agree with jonas, there is an imbalance here, right . We couldnt raise it to 30 an hour that wouldnt make sense, but argue with john, there is research, Economic Institute policy for example, and theyre sophisticated and show there are not ill effects. But i would agree with you that something like, you know, an earned Income Credit would be better in terms of stimulating the economy, but this isnt a bad start. Well, and actually the president isnt saying that this is a boost to the economy. Its more about fairness, i believe. But, larry, if you increase if you raise the price of employment do you basically decrease the demand for employment . Does it come down to that . Thats exactly right, brenda. The irony, this is intended to help those who need it the most, intended to help the economy or have the opposite effect. First of all, i dont believe any of the studies on either side. Think what well see in reality is companies will outsource wherever they can, and visit your local retailer, visit your local grocery store, youll see more and more automated checkouts and thats what companies do for selfpre sel selfpreservation. Well pay more to the store. Theres no free lunch. It sounds great on paper, sounds great in academic theory, in reality. The policies just do not and have not worked in the past. Were not talking about the past now, gary b. Were talking about really the future. We have a very tepid recovery. Is this the time to be raising a minimum wage . Absolutely not. You know, larry hits on a key point. Is that lets take jonas walmart example. Lets say they had to pay this. Whats walmart going to do . Raise price toss absorb that cost. They know that kmart and target across the street will get hit with the minimum wage and theyre going to raise it, they know theyre not at a disadvantage, where does that cost go to . It goes to the consumer so everyone pays for the minimum wage and by the way, studies have shown barely affects those in poverty and only in fact the average household with a person of minimum wage earns 48,000. Caroline, lets get to that point. That this really affects more s an impact on consumers . Well, sure, it is an impact on consumers and i would challenge the notion that it wont benefit businesses to the point where they will need to raise prices. The fact is that businesses will benefit if ne treat their employees better, study after study indicated theres not an academic theory that you have less time off of work, you have lower recruitment and training costs which means that your employees stay there longer, less reliant on public services, the taxpayers benefit. Corporations benefit. So i think youd be hard pressed to make the argument na consumers are really going to get shafted on this one. John, you want to answer that . How in the world can you say this is not going to affect businesses when its a 24 raise on what you have to pay your employees . I dont know where they get 9 an hour, we havent had inflation the last number of years, why do you take 9 . This is a political thing that the president and the white house is doing. And thats simply all it is. We have 27 million americans out there that are true low income americans that dont have the skills fill out a job application. And theyre going to do more them than good it will be have winners and losers, no question about it. Even getting rid of it as ayn minimum wage, doesnt matter if we go to china or remove the checkout line from home dd depoe, these jobs are not going back at 1 an hour. Raising 10 or 20 is not going to magically solve the problem of poverty. Gary b . This is a form of wage and price control. We tried that many, many times, we tried under nixon, tried under ford. Its been proven it doesnt work, its assuming the government is allknowing and allbeing with prices and wages and we need to get off the idea that the government knows what the right price is to pay teenagers out there for crying out loud. Okay, thats going to be our last word. Thanks, guys. So, did you hear this . We have a spending problem, and when they talk about that, its like theres an assumption that somehow we as a nation are broke. So, were not broke . The cavuto on biz gang will do the math. You decide. Thats at the bottom of the hour, but up here first. Something is heating up on wall street. No, im not talking about those Sports Illustrated models ringing the closing bell this week. I am he talking about all the hot deals. Merger mania is back. A sign the economy is, too . Or a sign of trouble to come. To compete on the global stage. What we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. By 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough College Graduates to fill them. Thats why at devry university, were teaming up with Companies Like cisco to help make sure everyones is ready with the know how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure americas ready. Make sure youre ready. At devry. Edu. The battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaas commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy. Get an autoinsurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. We all work remotely so this is a big deal, our first full Team Gathering i wanted to call on a few people. Ashley, ashley marshall. Here. Since were often all on the move, ashley suggested we use fedex office to hold packages for us. Great job. [ applause ] thank you. And on a protocol note, id like to talk to tim hill about his tendency to use all caps in emails. [ shouting ] oh im sorry guys. Ah sometimes the caps lock gets stuck on my keyboard. Hey do you wanna get a drink later . [ male announcer ] hold packages at any fedex office location. Why do more emergency workers everywhere trust duracell . Duralock power preserve. Locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. Now. Guaranteed. Duracell with duralock. Trusted everywhere. Live from americas news headquarters, im molly line. A massive cleanup operation underway in russia after a meteor blast sparked an explosion with the power of an atomic bomb. Some 1200 people said to be injured. Most of them cuts from flying glass. The meteor blow out windows of more than 4,000 buildings in the region. The cost of the damage so far, 33 Million Dollars. And were learning soldiers deployed to afghanistan next year may see their work course extended an army general says budget cuts could limit training of brigades to replace them. There will be delays for those deploying in 2014. Im molly line, now, back to bulls and bears. Youre watching the most powerful name in news, fox. Whoa, talk about huge deals. Lots of Major Companies tying the knot and 50 billion dollars and trouble ahead for the economy and market . How so . Yes, brenda, well, normal mergers and acquisition are a good sign for the economy and show the companies are willing to open their wallets, commit capital on the future, but these particular deals show just the opposite. They show that companies are worried that because theyre worried theyre making the safest deals possible, the smartest deal maker of them all Warren Buffett is buying what . Heinz, ketchup and mustard. Nothing more defensive in an economic down turn is ketchup and mustard. Worried about the consumer and impact of the higher payroll tax and higher gasoline prices and thats what were worried and seeing and making safe, conservative deals. Jonas, usually, mergers are a good sign that the economy is booming and the market is doing well and thats the case now . Yeah, as opposed to the hightech companies that buffet bias. All right. You know what . Its a sign that the government they made cash so undesirable. And so many out there. The companies are swimming in cash and earnings at alltime highs and have to do something so theyre panicking to put it into work, and dont want to pay out like aggressive like apple does. And they have the ideas how to use the money and dont want to hire people and so theyre merging. Brenda okay, john, is this risky or is this a good thing for the the economy . Im not sure its a good thing for the economy. I dont think its a bad thing for the economy. I think its a bad thing for small and medium sized businesses, but look, when you have apple who has more money than the u. S. Government, but of course, we all have more money than the u. S. Government, theres no real place to put this money, and what jonas talked about with this, give it back in dividends which a lot of people consider lazy and uncreative to try to go out and buy company. The rich are getting richer and the big companies, the only place they can use the huge acquisitions to put the huge pile of cash to good use. Brenda gary b, we talk about the markets be in record highs or alltime highs and we were basically where we were six years ago. Exactly, brenda. In fact the nasdaq is way below its alltime highs, so theres plenty of room to grow and getting back to, you know, larry and jonas made excellent points. Normally merger activity is a harbinger of an improving economy and i think the stock market could break higher. The only point, jonas said about buffet always buys Companies Like that, if larry was really right and things were going to get bad, then youd think that buffet would hate for heinz to have a tremendous pullback. So, you know, thats the only thing. I think he thinks that heinz is going to improve its fortunes and the stock is going to rise. I think overall, its positive. Brenda okay. Caroline what do you make of all of this . Weigh in. I think its pretty unmitigatedly positive. Were seeing twice the amount of activity when it comes to merger and acquisitions. And means that the companies are now starting to loosen up, theres 1 trillion dollars that theyve stock piled during the economic down turn. That can only be good and speaks to the stabilization of the banking economy, and it speaks to the relative stabilization of whats happening in europe, so, i think its great for companies, of course, mergers are a mixed deal for consumers, some are positive when it comes to price, and services, others are not. I think that the airlines merging is going to lead to higher fares and fewer routes. At least for the forseeable future unless the airlines are involved and get some competition. Good for business not so good for consumers. Brenda more on the Airline Merger coming up. Is this a plan that companies have basically done everything they could to grow profits by cutting costs and now they have to buy their rivals . Exactly right. Theyve taken the meat off the bone and theres nothing left in terms of efficiencies here. The challenge here, this is not going to create employment. And when you see them like the Airline Industry you take capacity out and raise prices, may be good for profitability and those particular industries, but its not good for the consumer, but really not for employment. This is not going to raise prices and shows that Companies Need to put that money to work and cant earn zero in cash which is what it will pay today and they want to find a safe place to put that money what the deals are all about. Brenda jonas is this because of or despite washington . First of all, we invested profit creation, not job creation when youre investing in stock. When youre an investor, in the stock market, rather than hire people and what was the exact question again . Is this because of washingtons or despite it . Its because of Federal Reserve which is government policy and making cash, and i will say its also because the government obviously wants to shift this money to labor and thats minimum wage we were talking about and a way to shift the cash it to buy other companies and not in salaries, so you could say its something to do with government policy. Brenda and i dont care what the question is, i dont always get that. As the deals take off, are air fares next . Neils crew ready for take off in less than 15 minutes. First, carnivals triumph wasnt quite the titanic, but someone here is saying what lawmakers are pushing to prevent this mess from happening again could sink a big part of the economy for good. Searing for a bank designed for investors like you . Tdd 18003452550 schwab bank was built with all e value and convenience tdd 18003452550 investors want. Tdd 18003452550 like no atm fees, worldwide. Tdd 18003452550 and no nuisance fees. 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Tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. Before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if youre pregnant, nursing. Have Serious Health conditions, or take other medicines. If you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. Children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. The most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. The flu comes on fast, so ask your doctor about tamiflu. Prescription for flu. Coming up. Carnivals triumph turning into turmoil for passengers and some are warning d. C. s fix to prevent is from carnival getting slammed with at least one lawsuit for stranding all those passengers for days. But some say that d. C. s response could slam an important part of our economy for good. Whats going on here. Carnival sued get sued and sued a lot more, and the market is going to punish these guys. Congress is going after cruise ships and reminds me 2008 and 2009, the world was falling apart they wanted to investigate steroids in baseball. They dont have a budget, the lower Labor Participation rate in over three decades and want more restrictions on what the conga. Put them on a cruise ship and leave them out there for a decade and the country will be better. Brenda talk about the trip from hell. Can the government prevent another one of these catastrophes . I kind of like johns idea putting members of congress on one of these ships when they cant get along. I think that government should step in not the first time, but the third time in last 27 months carnival had a similar problem, right . Three floating disasters, if you will. And it could have easily been prevented had they just updated their fleet to have redundant Electrical Systems all three disasters could have been prevented. Why arent they updating the fleet . Putting profits above people. And government say fine, you provide an excellent service, but need to provide for safety as well. Brenda gary b. Doesnt the market take care of this. Who is going on a Carnival Cruise now . Exactly. You have to be living in a cave, you know, to be and im going to take a cruise next week . Huh . Theres he a cruise disaster . I never now until i got on the ship. People go to the website, read the news, huh, maybe ill take a Royal Caribbean cruise or a disney cruise, but carnival says itself theyre going to get hit and this is respond the lawsuits. At least 80 Million Dollars for repairs and damages and cancellations and refunds. Plus, we, you know, probably going to be canceling not ever taking a cruise again. And thats, you know, when caroline says well, theyre putting profits before people and it sounds like in this case the profits are going to be behind the people. I think so. All right, larry, you just throw this idea of government interference overboard. The reason people go cruising because its affordable and fun and if you get the government involved youre not going to be able to eat all you want and drink all you want and do belly flops, and no longer affordable fun. And i think weve got to keep the government out. Brenda i want to defend carnival for a minute. Refunding the amount of the cruise and giving credit. Absolutely. Brenda so, they really are trying to make some good on this, jonas. And never waste valuable tank space with the life boats and to garys point. The utilities like where theres no competitor in your area or a small like travelling circus, no brand at risk you need safety. When theres a large conglomerates like disney or mcdonalds, competitors and brand at risk, you dont need a whole lot of oversight from the government. Theres so much to lose from these embarrassments. Brenda and thanks, guys, and thank you to caroline. 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