0 military. >> i wish he was being tried in guantanamo rather than the southern district of new york. >> libby will be tried in the u.s. and will not be sent to guantanamo bay. he's alleged to have done surveillance on the embassies before the bombings. he hid in britain and iran after the attacks and returned to libya in 2011 during the uprising against gadhafi. the operation in somalia was also designed to capture the mastermind of another more recent east africa attack, that at the mall. the s.e.a.l.s could not retrieve the body to make a positive identification. in libya, an fbi hostage rescue team with the authorities to prosecutor was embedded with the u.s. forces who carried out the attack, another clue that al libi will be tried in a u.s. federal court. >> incredible work. jennifer griffin, thank you. thanks, so how exactly are special forces trained to carry out missions like these? joining us now via skype is mike baker, former cia covert a operations officer. nice to see you and congratulations to our brave men and women who carry off these operations every day. how significant were these two raids for the war on terror? >> the pickup of al libi in tripoli is very significant, the closing of a cahapter. you think of how long ago it seems 19 nathd was, but how deadly the bombings were in east africa. this is also important, the notion we continue to decimate the most experienced, the top-ranked members of al qaeda. al libi, i mean, had been associated with osama bin laden since back in the saddam days in 1994, in that area. this is a guy who's been around for a long time and had a great deal of responsibility not just in africa, but other operations. the raid in somalia, very important. that was a tough one. and it was very unfortunate that wiunable to take down additional targets, but it's amazing what they're able to do. i would like to stress both operations are the deal of a great deal of work going on over the years in targeting al shabaab and the al qaeda organization as a whole. >> i want to help folks at home, mike, understand better both of the organizations. it said taking actually the capture and kill in this particular case has affected both organizations, al qaeda, and al shabaab. in the case of al qaeda, they've been decimated to a great extent by all our efforts. what is actually left of al qaeda? >> well, you think about an organization that was very much in the top in bin laden's days, they sort of ran everything. they wanted to approve you can imagine howconfused someone like al libi is. >> well, thank you so much for weighing in. both of these groups will be learning a lot more over the next couple days. great to see you, mike. >> thank you. jamie, the two raids are being called a victory on our war on terrorism, but northern africa has recently seen increased violence from jihadist and islamist terrorists. libya and somalia especially have become growing havens and a growing movement. the government clashes almost daily with this cells. what does this mean for our security here at home? joining us is former united states ambassador to the united nations, john bolton, who is also a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. good morning. >> good morning. >> with these raids, is it fair to say africa has in a sense become the new afghanistan, the home of islamist terrorism? >> i think it's certainly an area where al qaeda and its afiltiates have been growing. in somalia, anarchy for 25 years, and this is a real menace. that's why this raid today in retaliation for the al shabaab seizure of the shopping mall in nigeria is so important. we may not have gotten the person we wanted, but it took place just shortly after a week after the attack in nairobi. i think it is a signal that when we've got a determination to act, we can still act quickly. with respect to the capture of al libi in tripoli, there's some real significance here to getting somebody we've been after for 15 years. it really recalls the killing of osama bin laden two years ago. ten years in preparation and planning to get osama bin laden. 15 years to get al libi. it shows we still have the capacity to do it. a lot more significance there. >> remember the israeli raid in the '60 that snatched aikman off the streets, captured him and brought him back to israel to face justice? we're told he may come to new york and face justice here where they're having the trials dealing with the 1998 bombings of the embassy in africa. >> there are two aspects, the first is the capture of al libi himself. at least of this morning, the government of libya is complaining we didn't give them advance notice. perhaps we told them as it was happening. this was the use of an armed force inside another country without their permission. picking up somebody who was in that country and taking them away, somewhere, where we don't know at this point. you know, in the bad old dayoffs the bush administration, that was called rendition. and president obama campaigned against rendition, described it as a recruiting tool for al qaeda. so i'm glad that the obama administration has now overcommits overcom overcome its opposition to rendition, but more importantly, going forward, we have gone back in a time machine. the administration apparently wants to under the indictment issued against al libi after the embassy bombings, they want to try him in a federal court. that's exactly the wrong thing to do. this is the ideology of the obama administration looking alt this through a law enforcement perspective when we should be looking at it at the law of war perspective. >> they would say there have been successful cases that have been carried out in the civilian court, and i expect them to come here and go through that. >> every once in a while, but gathering evidence of these terrorist attacks is not the same as gathering evidence of a bank robbery in new york, number one. number two, the terrorist bombings of the embassies were heinous crimes, but to be able to interrogate somebody like al li libi, 15 years of knowledge of what kietd kide has been up to, could save more lives or give us a base of information. that takes a long time. this is not the question of a day or two. this man ought to be in gitmo for years under interrogation, but i'm afraid perhaps the fbi hostage rescue team has read them his miranda rights. perhaps he's already gotten a lawyer, in which case, we'll learn next to nothing. >> we'll go through that again. then finally the war on terrorism and the fact you have two british girls who were blinded by acid in zanzibar, and it creases and increases, in 2002, the islamic attack on a hotel owned by the israelis and they tried to shoot down a boeing 747. how do we get a handle on the groups that threaten us and our families and grow in africa? >> first thing you have to do is acknowledge we're still in a growing war on terrorism. al qaeda and its unholy affiliates and subsidiaries are growing. the threat of terrorism continues to expand. in north africa, somewhat oversimplified, but there's a seam across the northern part of the continent between the suherrsuhai saharan muslim world and christian world, radicals, terrorists, taking across the board. in libya, in sudan, in egypt, and in tunisia. this war is not getting smaller. it's getting larger, and we need a strategy starting with acknowledging they're still at war with us. >> all right, ambassador, getting not smaller but larger. john bolton, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. a lot more on this developing story. we'll be right back with much more. ugh! actually progresso's soup has pretty bold flavor. i love bold flavors! i'd love it if you'd open the chute! 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