conversation. he likes to point to, for example, unemployment going down in south bend, but unemployment went down across indiana, in the eight years that he was mayor. there is nothing given to the fact the started with the current president of purdue university, one of the great executives in american state history. the current governor eric holcomb, who has been maintaining this pro-business kind of growth, and there was a guy in the middle by the name of mike pence, i don't know if you know the name or not, who absolutely was part of this growth. some of the policies he put together are the policies that pete buttigieg was able to utilize to bring down unemployment in south bend, because it was happening in indiana. >> tucker: so, in the actual city of south bend, though, violence seems like -- and violent crimes -- seem like they are rising pretty dramatically. >> yeah, and this is a very, very interesting story. you take a look at murder rates, 2019, that is down.