danger and how many communities have been destroyed. >> martha: it's unbelievable. we'll see people back there in a few minutes. the only thing i can compare these shots is to a bombed area. it looks like it was bombed over 200 miles. it's devastating. our thoughts are with them. let me turn your attention if i may, the subject that we began with, which is the question of president biden meeting with joe manchin today. everybody is watching joe manchin, looking for any kind of indication where he is on this right now. where do you think he is on it right now if you can read the tea leaves, karl? >> i think he's on the opposite side of jen psaki that called the congressional budget office's report on friday of the enormous red ink with it phony. it's not phony. it's real. why? the existing cbo score is $1.7 trillion in spending of which up