example of media bias is that you cannot say ukraine interfered in the election without it automatically meaning you are saying russia didn't interfere. >> sean: russia did interfere but that doesn't mean ukraine didn't also. >> correct and it doesn't mean that iran and china and other countries didn't interfere. >> sean: ukrainian courts said they interfered, and politico on january 11, 2017, they had a long piece about ukrainian election interference. >> that's right, and that reporter now works at "the new york times." that's what's frustrating for me because i don't live in the world of spin. i try to live in the world ofin fact. i'm trying to figure out, what do i need to know and understand here? >> sean: do you think facts justify what's been going on and the way the media has covered this president? >> to me it's very disappointing that you have witnesses testify and there is nothing critical of the reporting about it. >> sean: one fact witness. >> no one is questioning it.t. as a journalist, we need first-hand sources. preferably two.