think moderates just aren't going to put up with. >> greg: even after 9/11, you did see there was a future where it became anti-terror versus islamaphobia. it kind of, it took root and it became kind of real. jamie, how do you feel? do you think this is overhyped, the polarization? >> jamie: i think kat nailed it that it's already happening. it's not us versus the virus. it's us versus each other. i was reading brian's first book in the green room, hippie death magic and technology. >> brian: it caught fire. >> greg: do you like fire or does it scare you? >> jamie: we are already at that point. i find trouble -- don't you have discussions with people you know are smart people and there's this divide where you can't get through. there is no middle. there is no overlap. you can't get to it. the only common ground, i was talking to a buddy.