say to humanize you. >> then, with the 2011 debates now, in the books we will ask our sunday panel to handicap the fast changing republican race as we enter the home stretch in iowa. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. the iowa caucuses are now just over two weeks away. but despite months of campaigning and 13 debates, the republican race for president is still wide open. we have conducted a series of 2012 one on one interviews to help you get to know the candidates better. and today we round out the field with mitt romney who sits down for his first sunday show interview in almost two years. yesterday, we caught up with him on the campaign trail in south carolina where he had just won the endorsement of that state's popular governor. in a wide ranging interview we talked about the challenges he faces winning the gop nomination. and possibly running against president obama. governor romney, at long last welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thanks, chris. good to be with you. >> chris: i saw the other day that president obama has not met with republican congressional leaders in five months while he is at the same time made 34 campaign speeches. what is your basic argument running against him? what is the choice for voters? >> well, as you describe that introduction the choice it is a relates to that style is that leaders don't do that. leaders actually spend time meeting with people on the other side of the aisle, understand their needs, understand their concerns, get their input and look for some way to find common ground, not to violate their own principles or to insist that the opposition violates its principles but instead finding places where there is common ground upon which to build and this president instead has gone to the people and attacked. it has been a constant attack either against republicans or against people in the business world or whatever group he somehow feels is opposed to his agenda. the right course is to work with other people. good democrats love america and good republicans love america. we need a leader who understands not just the words of unity but the practice of building unity. >> chris: on the other hand, the president says he rescued the country from another great depression. he killed osama bin laden and he says you and your party would restore policies that caused the financial meltdown in the first place. >> it is great rhetoric but again, it is just hollow. first of all, he was not the reason that the economy hit bottom and then begins to recover. we have gone through recessions before. he made this one worse and he made the recovery more tepid. i get the chance to speak with business leaders, big and small businesses, largely small. i say to them do any of you believe that the policies of this administration have helped you become more successful in your enterprise and hire more people? i don't see a single hand go up when i ask that to an audience. his policies have hurt, not helped. with regards to osama bin laden. we are delighted that he gave the order to it take out osama bin laden. any president would have done that but this one did and that is a good thing. i'm not going to it say everything he has done is wrong but with regards to the economy almost everything he has done made it more difficult for this economy to reboot. >> chris: before you face the president, of course, you have to win the republican nomination and you have in recent days been escalating your attacks against your main competitor in the polls speaker gingrich. you now say he is zany, he is an unreliable leader in the conservative world. he lacks the temprament. what is your basic argument against newt gingrich? >> well, we are different and a campaign is about pointing out differences. the great issue brought before this congress with the new republican congress is are are we going to deal with entitlement reform or not and republicans came together and proposed a program to make sure that medicare is sustainable. paul ryan was the author of the plan. but almost every single republican in congress voted for it. and the world watched to see okay, are we going to have progress. and the speaker said, this is right wing social engineering. i mean talk about unreliable. at a critical time. he cut the legs out from underneath a very important message. the same was true with regards to cap and trade. this was being battled on capitol hill and the speaker sat down with nancy pelosi and spoke in favor of legislation dealing with climate change. he has been unreliable in those settings and zany. i wouldn't think you would call mirrors in space to light highways at night particularly practical or a lunar colony a practical idea, not at a stage like this. >> chris: are you prepared for a long bitter primary battle all the way to the convention? >> i hope we don't have that but my guess is that that is certainly a possibility. we now have adopted the democratic party's approach for allocating the early delegates on a proportional basis and we watched what happened when the democrats did that. their primary process went on for a long, long time. so we are prepared if we he go on for months and months we will have the resources to carry a campaign to each of the states that will decide who gets delegates and who becomes the nominee. >> chris: one of the knocks against you is that at a time when republican voters want dramatic change that you are offering fine tuning. let's start with taxes. rick prosecutorry calls for -- rick perry calls for a 20% flat tax. you would keep the top rate at 35%. and this contrast to most of your rivals you would not lower the tax on capital gains and dividends for any one making more than $200,000 a year. question, aren't you basically right there with barack obama the rich should pay more? >> no, i'm just saying don't raise taxes on any one. i want to make sure that with the precious dollars we have that we could provide tax relief that the dollar goss to middle americans. the people hurt in the obama economy are not the wealthy. the wealthy are doing just fine. the people hurt are the people in the middle class and so i focus those precious dollars that we have i focus that on the middle class. >> chris: what is wrong with the 15% flat tax or 20% flat tax. you are keeping the rate at 35%. >> i would love to see a tax system which brings down rates which is a more broad based tax system which elimb nails some of the deductions and exemptions. the bowles simpson plan had a lot to speak for it and i will work on a plan of that nature. the policies so far put forward of that nature have represented dramatic reductions in tax for the very highest income people and i'm not looking to dramatically reduce taxes for the wealthiest in our are society. not that there is anything wrong with being wealthy. i'm pleased to have done well, myself. you understand that and others do. my intent is to help middle income americans and the plan that dramatically cuts taxes for the wealthiest is in my opinion not the right course. >> chris: you talk about helping the middlele class but your plan that would eliminate the tax on capital gains and dividends doesn't h help them. a recent study showed a family making $57,000 a year in terps -- $75,000 a year in terms of what they would receive by eliminating capital gains and dividends, $167, sir. >> first of all, $167 is not zero and number two, one of the reasons people don't save their money is they don't see an incentive to do so. they put it in roth iras and plans and have to put together nanny programs to try to save money on a tax advantage basis. i allow middle income families to be able to save their money tax free. no tax on interest, dividends or capital gains. >> the argument is middle class people can't afford, they don't have enough money to have a lot of capital gains and dividends. >> i recognize it is not a huge tax cut. it is a tax reduction and allows middle. >> income folks to participate in making a brighter future for themselves and for saving. if it there is no tax on savings, middle income people will take advantage of that to save for college and retirement and things that they want and saying let's provide that same break to the high income people that costs a lot of money and is really not the a tax cut that is needed there. >> chris: then there is spending. ron paul says that he could cut federal spending $1 trillion in the first year. rick perry says he can put the federal budget a quarter of it each year. you say that you would cut $500 billion in 2016. again, if a voter wants dramatic change and that is what they say they want why odd. they go to one of our rivals instead of you? >> well, my plan is a popsible plan and i have the specifics that show how i will cut $500 billion out of the federal budget and take federal spending from 25% of the gdp down to 20% of the gdp which is in my view closer to the long-range average and makes sense. those that have said look, we are going to get rid of double that amount, i want to see the specifics and look to see whether that would in fact hurt the economy and make it harder for us to put people back to work. my highest priority is to make sure that we get americans back to work and we have rising incomes again and a deficit reduction program in place that convinces the world we are on track to having a balanced budget. i want to cut federal spending. i want to cap federal spending at 20% of the gdp and then lower it from there and ultimately have a balanced budget amendment. >> chris: let's pick up on this, between them, rick perry and ron paul eliminate five cabinet level departments including energy and education. you would not eliminate any. why not? >> it is not that i won't eliminate any. i want to make sure that we study them in some depth to be sure which agencies we ultimately combine. people think if we eliminate an agency we will not keep doing anything it does. the department of education provides funding for the education of disabled children. i don't imagine that either of those that plan on getting rid of the department plan on not helping in the education of disabled children. we need to say given the fact that that function is going to go on where will it reside. some of the functions will continue and some i will eliminate. some programs i will eliminate. my list of programs to eliminate is pretty long. >> chris: let's look at it from the democrat's point of view if you end up as the nominee. you say that you would wash it says on your website one of your goals, pass the house plan to cut the budget. let's look into that. cut medicaid. help cover it for the poor by $700 billion. cut food stamps by $127 billion. cut pell grants in half. you would cut all of these programs, governor, that people depend on and a lot more than that. >> actually the great news about those programs is that in the ryan land and in the plan i put forward i take the biggest of those hi is med medicaid, i take the medicaid toll dollars and send them back to the states without the mandates as to how they have to treat so many people. >> you are also cutting the put. >> i send the money back to the states and say we will go that funding at inflation plus 1%. by doing that you save an enormous amount of money. i happen to believe that states can do a better job caring for their own poor. rooting out the fraud and waste and abuse that exists. >> chris: you don't think if you cut $700 billion in aid to the states that some people going to get hurt? >> in the same way by cutting welfare spending dramatically i don't think we hurt the poor. cutting medicare spending and having it go to the states and with less fraud, i don't think that will hurt the people that depend on the plan for their healthcare. >> chris: if you end up against barack obama that is really one of the central issues. the president says he will campaign as the champion of the middle class and portray the republican nominee as pushing tax cuts for the wealthy, spending cuts for the poor and rolling back regulations that helped protect people people and the environment. aren't you vulnerabilitier in arable to that. >> he is extraordinarily vulnerable. we will say how did that work, mr. president. your four years in office, how well do those programs work? did the poverty decline in this country or did it go up? joblessness, you came into office and said let me borrow $787 billion and i will keep unemployment below 8% and he hasn't been below 8% since. his policies have not worked. we need regulation, for instance, as you point out. we need regulation in our society. i'm not someone who says get rid of all regulation. we just need regulation that is updated and modern and that encourages enterprise as opposed to burdening in t. his great failing is he does not understand how this economy works and how his policies have made it harder for this economy to put americans back to work. i do know how the economy works and my policies are designed to get team what they desperately want injuries not care for being poor. they want to stop being poor, have a good job and have a bright future. >> chris: in your last book you repeatedly talk about the idea of creative destruction in capitalism. what does that mean to you, creative destruction? >> it is unfortunate but in some respects an' sentencing part of free enterprise. when someone came up with inventing the track tore it destroyed a lot of jobs. destroyed many enterprises. people in the horse-drawn plow business went out of business and yet the wealth of the american people and well being of the american people grew dramatically. invention whether of a new product or new technique or new tee sign, invention tends to put some enterprises out of business and encourage other businesses to be more successful with jut you come that the epitire see sighty becomes better off. >> chris: let me present the other side of the argument. not to say we don't want progress, obviously we do. what about the people who get hurt in the process and lose their jobs, maybe lose their families, what about that? >> in a productive society you have new invention coming along and people move to the new enterprises. when the automobile and track tores came on the scene, it was slightly before my time. >> chris: even mine. >> when that occurred, a lot of people did lose jobs and it had to be heart wrenching and you have to have a setting which allows people to get trained for the new positions. a safety net to make sure people are not on the streets. i mean that is an essential part of a free enterprise system as well where there will be businesses that go out of business. to get people into the new opportunities. and that happened. someone said to me how could you create millions and millions of jobs overnight. make track tores illegal. say to formers you have to use horses and plows again. we would put everybody to work. we would just be extraordinarily poor. >> chris: what if president obama goes after you as gordon gecko, greed is good. >> this is a president who goes after anybody who is successful. he is successful, too, he has done very well the last few years. i will point out in my experience in the private sector in the investments i made in the businesses i helped to build our intent in every case was to either help people realize their dreams by starting a business or taking a business that was failing or underperforming and making it more successful. is was not buying things, taking them apart, closing them down. it was associated with trying to make enterprises more successful. not always was i able to succeed. in each case we tried to grow and hopefully provide better future for those associated with the enterprise. >> let's pick up on where you worked for 25 years. you say that setous apart. you have worked in the private sector and you have created jobs. there have been big successes. staple's. you helped start it and they now employ 90,000 people. on the other hand, we saw that four of the ten top dollar investments you made went bankrupt. is that just the cost of doing business? >> well, it is not just a cost, it is the downside. it is the reality of what life is like in the private sector which is that businesses that you invest in, those were not enterprises that i ran, of course, no. >> but in bases. >> chris: data national. and a company like gs industries it was a group of steel mills and i think we were an investor in that business for i don't know eight years or so. if finally went bankrupt after i left the firm. it was an investment that was made, again, i wasn't running it. the steel industry got in trouble in it country. 0 mills went bank -- 40 mills went bankrupt at the same time this did. i understand the impact of what happens locally in trade and businesses lose and go out of business and in some cases lose jobs. it breaks yourer who when that happens and also loses in vetment. you probably know this injuries the dollars weren't midol larentas. they came from endowment and even a church pension fund was invested in bank capital and that money goes to them and when we suffer losses they are the ones that suffer the losses as well. >> chris: you talk about the money. back when you were in bing you and your partners took a picture with money literally coming out of your pockets, coming out of your jacket and you know that democrats are dieing to use that a picture against you. what is the story of the picture? >> already have and will. that was at the closing of our very first fund. we went out as a group of folks and said you know, i bond ferraro we can raise money from -- i wonder if we can raise money from other people to organize a company. get capital from others that i'll lou us to begin that business that will be successful. we were successful in raising our first fund it was about $37 million an extraordinarily large amount of money that we raised from other people and we posed for a picture celebrating the fact that we raised a lot of money and we helped to be able to return it with a good return and in the interim, of course, we had to be successful, build enterprises. the first fund got invested in a number of businesses that turned out to create a lot of jobs and yield a positive return to the people that trusted us with their funds. i know it will be used. it will be fun. he recognize the president is going to go after me and i will go after him. >> chris: and if he says or somebody says maybe it is an independent group, fat cat, hard hearted, you know, let businesses rise, he makes money. businesses fall, times you still make money. >> i know there will be every effort to put free enterprise on trial right-hand to attack free enterprise and people who work in free enterprise and attack those who believe that profit is good. profit in an enterprise is better than loss. loss means jobs going to be lost. i hope to see general motors as a profitable and successful enterprise again so that jobs can be spared. i mentioned the other night the president has had one experience overseeing an enterprise. a couple of enterprises. general motors and chrysler. what did he do? he closed factories. he laid off people. he didn't do it personally but people did. whew why did he do that? >> because he wanted toive sat enterprise and wants to get t profitable so it can survive. profit and enterprise is essential to keep people alive and keep people emmoid. >> the individual and date in romney care, you say the reason was to deal with those folks who didn't have insurance and bo show up when they were stick in an emergency room and get treatment. all the rest of us through taxes or heightened premiums have to pay for. free riders are not just a massachusetts problem. is the individual mandate, telling people they have to get health insurance? is that a good idea? do you agree it as good idea for other states? >> well, there are various ways to encourage people to have insurance if they can afford it. and we put in place a plan that was politically possible and n. our state which some call an individual mandate. another encouragement is say we give a tax break to people who do have insurance and you will lose that break if you don't have insurance. >> chris: do you think it as good idea for other states to do? >> some states said look, we will care for our uninsured or our poor by having clinics they can go to to get care. that are various models and they will get compared and if the massachusetts model works other states will adopt it. if it doesn't massachusetts itself will probably give it up. >> chris: the reason i ask and you say you are not going to tell other states. back in december of 2004, almost exactly four years ago today you were talking about tim russert on "meet the press" and you said you thought it would be a terrific idea if other states went for the individual mandate. you said this. those who follow the path that we pursued will find it is a best path and we will end up with a nation that has take and mandate approach. do you stand by that on a state level, not a federal level on a mandate approach? >> i like what your state did. let other states pursue their path as they think makes the most sense. >> chris: that is not what you said four years ago. >> i'm not going to tell texas what texas has to do or california or new york. i think the ideas that we put forward work. we will see which parts work and which don't. i'm not as president of the united states going to do what this president did which is to impose his will on the entire nation. the 10th amendment says states can craft their own plans. if they like what they say and i think ours is a model they can look at and take pieces of and try it and improve upon it. if they like what they see they will use it if they don't they will use something better. >> chris: we have to take a break here. when we come back we will talk foreign policy and i will also try to persuade the governor to get personal. back in a moment. 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[ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! >> chris: and we are back now with governor mitt romney. governor, the final u.s. troops are leaving iraq over the next two weeks. a couple of questions. first of all, looking back and hindsight is always 20/20, should we have invaded? and secondly, big picture what should we have done differently over the nine years there. >> that is a big question and going back saying give han we know now would we have invaded or not. at the time we didn't have the knowledge that we have now. at the time, saddam hussein was hiding. he was not letting the inspectors from the united nations in to the various places h they wanted to go. the iaea was blocked from going into the palaces and the information was that this tyrant had weapons of mass destruction. we took action which was appropriate at the time. lessons learned along the way? i think the military would say we probably should have gone in with a heavier footprint. i think there was a sense when it said mission accomplished that the mix had been accomplished. turns out it was just getting started. the surge was successful and fortunately we have now been able to pull our troops out. we are, of course, happy to see our troops come out. i think we will find that this president by not putting in place a status of forces agreement with the iraqi leadership has pulled our troops out in a precipitous way and we should have left 10, 20, 30,000 personnel there to transition to the iraqi's own capabilities. i'm concerned in this setting. i hope it works out. >> chris: let me pick it up right there because if you become president it will be your problem, sir. there is a concern particularly about growing iranian influence inside iraq. as president would you end u.s. troops back into iran? >> i think the decision to send u.s. troops into a combat setting is a very high threshold decision. this is not something you do easily. you don't send our troops around the world every time. >> chris: 4500 american troops killed, 30,000 wounded. hundreds of billions of dollars, if not the iranians -- if now the iranians begin to take over are you going to say well, that is. >> i am not going to say would send troopss, we wind troops where there is a substantial u.s. interest involved. i have a high threshold as to a decision where we send our troops. the real issue at the time as it relates to iran is their nuclear program and making sure that we dissuede them interest taking action to put the entire world in jeopardy. >> chris: in the time we he have left i want to get personal with you, if i may. your dad, george romney ran for president in 1968 and he was one of the frontrunners until he famously said he got a brain washing from the generals in vietnam and that kind of ended his candidacy. first of all, how old were you when that happened? and secondly, how did you feel, did it hurt to see your dad who i know you admired so greatly and he was a very distinguished man, become kind of a national punch line? >> yeah, of course. i was probably 20 or 21. i was serving my church at the same everseas and get i got the newspaper clippings and so forth. it was disappointing? yeah. years later when my bad was prove ton be right my wife asked him dad, how do you feel about the fact that you are finally being vindicated in what you said. he said i never look back, only look forward. he is quite a guy. >> chris: the rap against you. you are robotic and buttoned up, that you don't let voters inside to know who you really are and what you really feel. first of all, do you think that is fair? >> anything is fair in this world. the good news is that the people who see me in town meetings that actually meet me and spend some time with me have a different impression than in the debates. >> chris: do you feel it is hard for you to kind of open up to be emotional? >> not in the slightest. i think people who know me and a interact with me understand i'm an emotional guy and i have deep feelings about the country. very great concerns about the way it is being guided at this time by our president and so as people get to know me better i think they will come to a different impression. >> chris: your campaign has now put your wife ann out on the trail, some say to humanize you. how would you describe your relationship? sweet hearts? partners, best friends? >> all three. ann and i fell in love when we were in high school. she was 15 years old when i really took notice of her. i was a senior and she was a sophomore. i gave her a ride home from the party. she had come with someone else. i kissed her at the door and i have been following her ever since. she is a remarkable woman and she has gone through some tough times. she was had diagnosis of ms. she had breast cancer. and my feelings and passion for ann haven't changed in the slightest over the years other than to become strong. >> chris: she says when she got the diagnosis and you were in the room together and the doctor told her she felt as if her life was over and that you both cried. how tough a moment was that? >> probably the toughest time in my life was standing there with ann as we hugged each other and the diagnosis came. and i was afraid it was lou gehrig's disease as we came into the doctor's office. the brochures on his table there were lie lou garito lou . we stood up and hugged each other and i said to her as long as it's not something fatal i'm just fine. i'm happy in life as long as i have got my soul mea mate withe and ann is and she has been able to recover the great majority of her health. this marriage thing is about bringing people together in way that nothing compares with. >> chris: youth is not only a change for her, it is a change for us that you could get through it. >> well, she knows how she feels about me. she feels the same way about me, i hope, as i feel about h her and she knows that if i were to be inflicted with some kind of condition at some point that she would feel the same way about me. and i said to her look, i mean she said i can't cook any more. there was a really difficult time. at the time the disease was diagnose ited it was really tough for h her. we were getting ready to look at putting an elevator in the house to get her up to the second floor, a wheel chair for her down the road. she was tired all of the time and couldn't take care of the family the way she had in the past. a lot of that was what gave meaning to her day-to-day activities and i said look, i don't care are what the meals are like. you know, i like cold cereal and peanut butter sandwiches. we could do fine with that as long as we have each other. life is all about the people you love and you know, we can handle disease. death a, that is a different matter. death i don't know that i can happened that will. disease and hardship we can handle as long as we have the people we love around us. >> chris: governor romney, i want to thank you so much for talking with us today. good luck on the campaign trail. wele see you. and safe travels, sir. >> thanks,. >> chris: good to be with you. >> chris: and he got a big boost today when won the endorsement of the influencial des moines register. >> coming up, just 16 shopping days until the iowa caucuses. where does the race stand? we will ask our sunday panel to weigh in when we come right back. plaps i will emerge victorious. i will be that president of the united states. >> i will choose as the president and obvious we want to ask you for your support. >> we are in a position to really surprise people. >> chris: , well, some busy campaigning this weekend as the candidates look to get a big bounce out of iowa to push them into the top tier in the republican pressial race. and it is time for our sunday group. bill kristol of the weekly standard. former democratic senator evan bayh, ed rollins a first time panelist but the campaign manager for ronald reagan and mike huckabee and earlier this year, michele bachmann. and fox news political analyst juan williams. bill, are i can say with some relief all 13 2011 debates now over. two weeks of retail campaigning to go before the iowa caucuses. how you do you you handicap the race at this point? >> i wrote an editorial a couple of weeks entitled i do not know and i will repeat it. i do not know what will happen in iowa. i do not know what will happen in the race. it won't close early and the all the talk about whoever wins iowa is going to win everything or people are going run the table i don't buy that. i think it is honestly wide open. newt gingrich got pummeled with week with millions of dollars in tv ads. will he survive that? can he stablize? my instinct is that he has been through the worst and gingrich remains stronger than people in washington think he does but i can't prove that. >> let me pick up on to that. people in the rest of the country can't get the sense that every commercial on every show is a campaign commercial and particularly ron paul was running rough commercials bashing gingrich. from the outside looking at iowa as the democratic politician, your perspective, senator? >> three things, chris. this year has been characterized by incredible volatility. the half life of the frontrunner stat puts maybe a week. although the holidays intervening a lot can change between now and january 34. that is number one. number two, iowa is not always representative or predictive. the base and organization matters more. that will help ron paul. new hampshire is famously contrary in its open independent voter in new hampshire which will favor someone like a huntsman or a romney. i think the underlying dynamic, republicans are searching for the most conservative candidate they can nominate who still has a chance of getting elected. michele bachmann, herman cain, rick perry and now you newt gingrich. the problem for mitt is he is a suspect conservative but he is more electable. he needs to prove his bon in fides. i think he still is the most likely default option for the republican party. >> chris: ed, as i mentioned you ran mike huckabee's campaign which won iowa four years ago. how important is a field organization in especially in a caucus state and the reason i ask that specifically is newt gingrich this weekend is finally trying to put one together. how big a problem is that for h him? >> it is is a big problem. one thing to say to a pollster i'm for newt gingrich or mitt romney. another thing to go 7:30 at night to a firehouse or a school yard. 50,000 voters made up their mind the last ten days. 20,000 made it up that very day. still half the people in the state have not firmly committed to a candidate. geting that vote out is very important. you got three people in the petnhouse, romney and gingrich and ron paul. ron paul has the strongest organization. you have three people in the basement, perry, santorum and bachmann. one of them has to get out of the basement to become a credible candidate and that is divided up right now. >> chris: let me bring that to you, ron, i will slightly move one of the people from penthouse to the basement. four people that have to do well. ron paul. you could argue he is in the penthouse. ron paul, rick pe perry, michee bachmann, rick santorum. which has the chance to overperform and do well in iowa and propel into the top tier going on. >> i don't think there is any question ron paul. not only does he have the campaign structure we were just discussing but there he has money that has paid for the ads you were watching on tv where he was attacking others. huntsman falls out all together. bachmann has had mercedes moment and has not worked herself back up. santorum has worked hard in the state. no evidence again in the polling that he has taken off. it really comes down to ron paul, newt gingrich who i think needs to -- i meanfy was the ed rollins of his campaign i would have said to him why didn't you say you are the antiestablishment candidate, you are the tea party guy on the stage this week. we didn't you say that the establishment is attacking you in terms of these ads. the polls show he is still the leader in iowa. >> chris: it is interesting, talking about organization. one of the things i didn't know and i'm sure ed did when they go to the caucuses and all these church basements and school gyms, each candidate has somebody who is able to get up and make the case for that candidate. apparently gingrich does not have in hundreds of these precincts anybody to get up and speak for him. that is a huge problem. he has to come up with a person to make the case for the caucus goers in the next two weeks. >> or someone will just step forward and make the case for him. the voters do seem to be resisting being led around this year and organization is probably less important than it has been. the assault on tv, you described it. not just the huge numbers of ads but a huge percentage of them are antigingrich. most of the paul advertising is slamming newt and the romney super pact is entirely an antinewt assault. negative ads work. my hunch is there is a lot of people who want to vote for are a conservative in iowa. i would be surprised if romney gets more votes than he got in 2008. i think he got 30,000 votes in 2008. if he does not -- i think one takeaway from iowa will be if romney cannot get as many votes this time in iowa against arguably a weaker field than he got in 2008 isn't there is a sign there is real resistance to romney and the republican electorate? >> chris: we have to leave this on that fascinating question. when we come back, a two month extension of the payroll tax may get the senate home for the holidays. did congress just put off making another tough choice until next year? i've been in your shoes. one day i'm on top of the world... the next i'm saying... i have this thing called psoriatic arthritis. i had some intense pain. it progressively got worse. my rheumatologist told me about enbrel. i'm surprised how quickly my symptoms have been managed. 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[ male announcer ] enbrel. the #1 biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. this system is broken. this system is broken. we should have taken up these bills one by one with amendments, with debate and discussion. >> are we proud of this process? have we fulfilled the responsibility to the citizens of this country with this process? nobody can answer yes o that. >> chris: republicans john mccain and tom coburn part of a chorus of senators unhappy with the way congress is doing business these days and we are back now with the panel. well, the senate finally passed a compromise saturday and let's take a look at what is it in. a two month extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits. two months. president obama must decide within 60 days whether to go ahead with the keystone peopleline and it is all paid for but there is no surtax on millionaires. senator bayh is this the type of ledge slating why you quit congress? >> in part, chris and explains why congress' job approval is now 9%. this should have been extended for a fuel year. the pipeline ought to go forward. the president can say there is not enough time to decide. so, look, i think the house has got a decision to make sherr. it ought to be extended for a full year. amend the bill and send it back to the senate. reminds me of the saying in the house. they say the democrats may be the opposition party but the senate is the enemy. the prospect of forcing the senators to come back to washington to deal with this probably delights the house members. this action plays right into the president's hands. allows him to appear to be a more zealous tax cutter than the republicans. he wants to extend for a full year and they only gave him two months. allows him to play the populous card. and it allows him to run against congress. this is from my view sort of political malpractice one on one. i would suspect the house will make some changes. the only caveat would be if they don't have the votes to make changes the worst thing would be to do nothing and have everyone's taxes go up and it would make them appear to be totally inept. >> chris: speaker boehner was on "meet the press" and interesting enough he tried to sell the package to the rank and file on a quarterback and they said absolutely -- on a conference call and they he said absolutely not for the reasons senator bayh mentioned. boehner is going to call them back in and either amend it or say let's go to a conference committee and work it out. the big issue is they say no two months just going to make us a laughingstock and the president will be able to in the state of the union beat us up about it. we want to see a full year extension with the extension but also with pipeline in. >> they passed a one year extension of the payroll tax cut and one year extension of unemployment insurance and took care of the doctors and medicare and paid for it and the senate passed this ridiculous two month thing. it isn't helpful. president obama gets to stand up and hammer away at the congress and the republicans in congress. house companies will stick to their guns. the senators went off on vacation for how long. one month. when you get the memo from the senate leadership they are having pro forma sessions every three days but not showing up in town until january 23. are you kidding me? the house companies are right to say let's go to conference committee or amend to make it a full year and you senators can do what the rest of america is doing for the rest week and if need be for the week between christmas and new year come back and work and we solve this for the full year. >> chris: so much of this is poe hit cal and the president has been -- political and the president has been able to make the point i'm fighting for a tax cut for the middle class and the republicans have been saying we are fighting for jobs and this keystone pipeline. who is winning the argument? >> the long territories goes on the more benefit it is to the president. plays right into his hands. i can understand the republican opposition, especially from the sort of tea party house members but the idea then that they would say no and not have the payroll tax cut extended is also problematic. >> house republicans passed a year long extension of the payroll tax cut. the alleged obstructionist tea party members are the ones that want to extend it for the full year. >> if they don't act, if they let's say go to the conference as chris was describing, let's say they go back to congress and say this is what we are proposing and go back and say this is not what we expected and you get caught in the deal we are pretty much to the end of the year, bill. that means republican letts be blamed for not extending the payroll tax cut. the bottom line politically is cost to the republicans and benefit to the democrats. >> republicans in the house or the majority party have to show that they can do things. they passed the ryan bill. the senate didn't take any action on it. made cuts in spending which hasn't gone anywhere. this is a real test of boehner's leadership and if they put a deal together with the democrats and pelosi in the house, don't go to conference or kill this i think boehner for the first time will be in a very bad position with his own leadership. he has never gotten too far ahead of his members which is a good place to be, unlike speaker gingrich. this is a real test of his leadership and i would hope that the house republicans reject it and make the senate come back and if they won't come back basically isolate them. >> chris: we have a minute left and i want to pick up on something you said earl jerry sandusky. you -- you said earlier. why doesn't the president approve the keystone pipeline. at a time when the big issue for all americans is jobs, creating jobs and there is an argument as to how many but obviously going to create thousands. why is he resisting this so much? >> well, the environmentalist community is an important constituency within the democratic party and he has disappointed them on other issues, cap and trade, for example, never happened. didn't allow the epa to do forward with some ozone rules and they are kind of disgruntled right now. my guess is that the pipeline will go forward but they are attempting to put it back until after the election. i think saying look, i respect my friends in the environmental community but right now, jobs are number one and this is the responsible thing to do. >> chris: couldn't he use cover and say i'm sorry but this was the price to tay to get a middle tax tax cut? >> he could and may very well still. >> chris: maybe we should have our own conference committee. thank you, panel. see you next week. check out panel plus where your group picks right up with the discussion on our website foxnewssunday.com. we will post the video before noon eastern time. when we come back, how your holiday spirit is helping last week's power player and our wounded warriors. [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up! ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm ... plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. ♪ with quarter-inch holes and blueprints for the coming year? those of us with doers on our lists. and because it's always better to give than to guess, we can take these last few days of shopping and our holiday budgets a lot further. ♪ more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. this 18-volt ryobi starter kit is just 89 bucks. ♪ the droid that wirelessly pulls files, music and movies, all at 4g lte speeds. and introducing the droid xyboard. with an 8 inch hd screen and adaptive surround sound, a home theater for your hands. powered by verizon 4g lte, these droids are too powerful to fall into the wrong hands. buy a droid razr and get $100 off a droid xyboard. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of a pain free holiday. ♪ this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills. >> chris: before we go, an update on last week's power player, the organization called luke's wing. the group pay forces family members to visit wounded soldiers in the hospital. we are delighted to report that after our story last week, you donated $600,000. that is triple their annual budget. if you wanted to learn more go to foxnews.com. next week a special christmas edition about politics and faith. guests will be mike huckabee and cardinal donald wuerl. we'll see you