smith. jonas max ferris, and eric bolling. how ugly is this going to get for jobs. this is an adomination. you have the left saying only extend credit for people under $250,000, middle class tax. and right saying how about the people above 250,000 because that is small business, small business creates jobs, it's small business-- if small business doesn't get the tax credits they're not going to hire. we've heard people saying i am neat going to hire. i'm not hiring two until i need five. >> is that how that's going to go down? >> exactly. a couple of facts here, liz. the obama administration likes to paint this as tax cuts for the rich, but we know that in that rich, that over, you know, 200,000 or so, 50% of thosere small businesses, we also know that small businesses create all the net job growth in the can't and yet, small businesses, the job growth they're creating now is the lowest since the last recession, the lowest in the last 18 years or so, at least second lowest. so by increasing taxes on those rich. if they just substituted small businesses, there would be an uproar like you've never heard. as it is, the uproar is big now and i think the obama administration is sticking it to the small businesses and that's why you're seeing job growth, net job growth we just talked about dieing on the vine right now. >> and gina, the president said he's sticking up for small businesses yet people who look at the 250,000 number, anything above that. if the tax cuts were to subset on that that would sweep in a lot of small businesses, what do you say to that argument? >> what i say we've had the bush tax cuts for the wealthy in place for ten years and during those ten years, while we've had the tax cuts into place, in place for our uber billionaires, that's the highest unemployment in a generation and added trillions to our debt. because we have the tax cuts in place which we have now doesn't mean that there's going to be job creation. because they automatically meant job creation we wouldn't have the problem we have now with unemployment. >> the republicans have to start making concessions and low income and middle income, now the wealthy this to do the same as well. >> all due respect. number one, when you talk about quote, unquote, job creation, remember that the small business person is right at the margins, sort of 50-50, should i, shouldn't i. they make a decision on an existing business whether that dollar is going to return them a dollar 50 and when you raise the cost of capital and overhead from expenses and layer on obama care, it's an easy decision, i'm not going to. but the other statistic that's killing us here is new startups. in new startups, 40% of all jobs created since 1995 have come from new start-up businesses, if those don't start then we're dead in the water and that's a fact. >> yeah, toby, you know the new startups aren't starting up because the banks have got the bailout money are not making it available-- >> and new businesses use equity money, pocket book from their credit card and where equity starts and that's held up. >> let me get jonas into the conversation, i have to ask and i hear this a lot, with the tax cuts in place since 2001 and 2003, which president bush put into place we didn't see a lot of meaningful job creation, what is going to extend it suddenly flip on a switch. >> to regina's point these were the brilliant tax cuts devised by mankind we probably wouldn't have such a high unemployment rate today. and what-- >> whoa, whoa, whoa, first of all, let's-- >> the cost of capital in business doesn't go up because you raise marginal taxes and get rid of the child care tax credit, and what leads to more hiring, wage cost. you would cut the payroll tax, forget the dividends and the capital, that stuff is great tore people, but it's not going to lead to more hiring direct lie by lowering the labor costs, they aren't very good policies anyway. >> i've heard some boners here like i've never heard before. regina likes to think that the bush tax cuts led to 10% unemployment. i've got news for you, the average unemployment rate during the bush years was lower than even during the clinton years. the unemployment rate skyrocketed because of the housing crisis which was basically caused by the cheap money out there. that was led by the fed and a democratic congress and-- >> in-- >> the stupidest thing i've ever heard. >> regina respond. >> what happened to the economy was led by wall street because the deregulation. >> led to wall street? how did wall street get access to that money. >> they failed to disclose the toxic assets on the book and created cheap money because it was-- >> regina. >> let me get back on track, gang and we've got to go back-- hold on regina. eric, it got to go back to jobs. >> it's got to. look, when you make a decision on hiring someone, on buying a piece of equipment, buying land, expanding your business, you do it on a five to ten year outlook. look forward. we do businesses, owned businesses, i'm not sure regina, if you have or not. but you don't make a decision on one year tax credit that may be extended. we need-- we absolutely need to-- >> eric. >> permanently. >> and i tell you, another guy who started four or five companies, has a new one. when you start a new business, the first thing you do is you're trying to make a-- there's an investment decision how much dough do i have to put in and get back out of this if i build this? i'm really not so much concerned about, you know, the issue of long-term capital gains, et cetera. what i'm concerned about, what's my cost of hiring and keeping people and if that rate goes up, your misbehavior makes me hire less. that's how economics work. >> and how does your cost of hiring somebody go up. what you just said. explain how it goes up with the tax going away. >> forget about the child tax credit. >> how does it go up? >> a bunch of ways, if they get a much higher tax rate on the money they put in my business? >> jonas what don't you think about raising taxes makes the cost of doing business go up and that's what it is, the cost of doing business goes up, you can't hire. >> because the tax rate you pay on profit doesn't change your hiring decision as much as-- >> if i don't have any-- >> can i finish the point in. >> i can't hire more people. >> sure. >> the whole reason you hire somebody-- hold on, the whole reason you hire somebody you think you can make a profit with them. >> yes. >> because you can sell $100 for $90 in labor costs. the ratio because-- 50% you're still going to make that decision because you're still making a profit at the margin. >> at the end of the day-- >> to fix it lower the cost of labor. >> you guys throw the term of the day around. regina, at the end of the day a lot of people on both sides of the aisle feel is now is not the time to raez or subset any tax cuts at the moment it may derail the company so much on tenterhooks right now. but 98% of americans are the ones who are going to benefit from extending the middle income tax. let's right now take care of 98% of americans and after that starting addressing the 2% multi-billion out allegedly or not allegedly you're making-- >> the obama administration, the obama administration seems to feel at the end of the day that this money is their money, just like they're gifting it back. now, my question to the administration, maybe regina can speak on their behalf, who do you think is in better position to spend this money, is it the small businesses or should we give it back to the government. >> they have it now, they're not spending it. they have the tax cuts now. >> 'cause they don't want to-- >> and the tax cut goes away it's more revenue to the administration. >> we're just starting recovery, this is the time to let the new seeds blossom into plants it's not time to pour kw water on them. >> the deficit, a 6% national sales tax, neil and the gang are wondering with are are the spending cuts to go along with that. that's coming up at the bottom of the hour, but first-- >> we're finally beginning to see some of the tough conditions we've seen. >> and gm stock hits wall street and president obama hits main street with a message his policies are working. oh, does that mean more taxpayer funded bailout are on the way? . 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[ male announcer ] we uerstand. you need a partner whhelps you save. but these days you need more than the book. you need website develoent, 1-on-1 marketing advice, search-engine marketing, and direct mail. yellowbook's got all of that. yellowbook360's got a whole spectrum of tools. tools that are going to spark some real connections. visit yellowbook360.com and go beyond yellow. >> hi everyone, live from america's news headquarters i'm jamie colby. president barack and othobama a n.a.t.o. leaders will start withdrawing troops from afghanistan next year and hand over control in 2014 leaving them to assist with logistics and training and n.a.t.o. has more than 150,000 troops in afghanistan including more than 100,000 american soldiers. and the air force is now saying it's unlikely that the pilot of a fighter plane that crashed in an i last ska survived. air force officials saying there's evidence that captain jeff hanley was not able to eject from the f-22 before it crashed in a remote area of alaska. his body hasn't been found and recovery efforts are expected to take several weeks. i'm jamie colby. great to have you with us. we'll send you now to bulls and bears. >> american taxpayers are now positioned to recover more than my administration investigated in gm. and that's a very good thing. >> president obama getting ready to hit the road to deliver the gm news hailing its stock debut as a win for taxpayers. that remains to be seen, but it was a clear win for unions and eric, you say it means the bailouts are far from over? >> that's right, this is only going to inspire more bailouts. here it is, guys, take a look at the taxpayer you and me, 50 billion dollars into this deal. uaw zero into this. after the ipo bondholders getting wiped out and your share, now 12 billion dollars, check it out. uaw takes 4 billion dollars away from this. we're out 38 billion dollars as of the end of the week, mr. obama took a victory lap on friday, he's going to come out on tuesday and doing a victory lap. if we keep doing deals like this we'll be more bankrupt than we already are. >> we're also impressed with professor bolling. what do you think about this. >> that's are imagery numbers. the unions-- >> these are imagery. >> can i say why. >> go for it. >> a lot of parties took hit including the compensation packages the union were supposed to get in order to get the stock in the company and look, everybody was critical about this deal, it worked out better than people thought it was going to work out. if this deal working out would lead to more bailouts then we would have had more-- let's not forget the government bailed out chrysler with eye could iacocca and, thee worked out pretty well for the taxpayers and government in general and no one hates them. >> and bailout is a hot world. let's look at the facts. they're emboldened, the current administration they quote unquote made money on investors. the only way they were in there there was no way to take gm into bankruptcy. there were no banks available to do debtor possession financing so the thing happened because there was no other place to go. if they're going to use that excuse for bailouts, then i would say, look it, you bailed out chrysler once, okay, you got lucky on that one. on gm, boy, you really got lucky and i think quit while you're ahead. >> and regina are we going to see more bailouts, is this a green light or we don't want to see something like this ever again. >> no, no, what this is, this is the right wing trying to drum up fear because president obama was successful with the gm bailout. >> fear? >> that he's going to be doing more bailouts. this is absolutely-- more fear mongering. >> that's the best strategy i've ever seen. >> and what happened when they bailed gm out. plenty of studies done. we would have lost over 3 million jobs, manufacturing plants would have been closed. >> by the way and gary b, by the way this is not exclusively a democratic issue. obviously, the s and l crisis was under george bush, sr. and george w pushed money under tarp and motor administration supported this extensively. will we get our money back and will we see more bailouts in the future. >> i don't think we are going to get our money back and even if we do, that's beside the point. i'd like to see some of the studies, regina, i'm not seeing one that said we are going to lose all of these jobs. you can't make it up. the company runs it into the ground between the management and the unions, that the gold plated package. they run it into the ground and become too big to fail and then they go with hat in hand to the government that bails it out and obama is claiming this is success. if making money on your investment in the government is success why didn't they put it into apple stock? and that's the bottom line, too. >> and along the line-- >> and what if boeing, what if boeing was in the same situation, would they we bail out boeing because they're huge. >> let me do this, jonas, not only did we give them 50 billion dollars and we're worth 12 right now we also gave them 45 billion dollars of tax credits going forward. that's 100 billion dollars that the taxpayer will never see that. >> for free. you know, as gary b says, if you you give me 95 billion dollars i can make that 1 dollars i can make that company suckfcessful. they were told if they had health care, hundreds of thousands of americans finding out that might not be the case. ♪ [ heather ] businesses need a reliable financial partner. one who can stay in sync with their moves. my job at ge capital is to get bobcat all the financial and business support they need. we provide financing for every bobcat dealer in north america. together, wee rolled out over 100,000 machines to small businesses all over the country so they too can grow. ♪ ge capital. we're there for bobcat every step of the way. ♪ . >> neil: new reports, 700,000 people may be dropped from their current plans. why someone here is saying why. (bleep) >> more >> if you like your plan you'll be able to keep it. if you like your doctor you can keep seeing your doctor. >> you'll be aing guess what, it's a shock and the insurance plan says we're not going to. >> there's more to the story, five private insurers are not going to renew medicare advantage because it's too costly and some goes back to 2008. is there not another law that joins a network of providers? >> it does go back to 2003. in 2003 the bush administration and congress passed a new elk had law that created medicare advantage. and what it did, allowed private insurers to start providing medicare to centers. >> and it worked the beat, by te way. >> no, because by 2008, president bush and congress realize $that providing medicare was actually costing a lot more than the government-run medicare progat,m. so in 2008 it was decided they were going to pull back 138 billion on-- >> and you can't mo- >> it's nothing to do with the health care now. it's then. >> and it does have something, gary b, we see the trigger go through, do we not? >> i can't see how obama wasn't truthful in this case, he said if you have your doctor, et ceteat,,, iay with these plans because of rising costs. it's very clear. >> absolutely. >> we've seen this law of ranintended consequences the board. insurance concrane os are getting rid of child only plans and my daughter is trying to get one, can't. some insurers are pulling out and clearly, he at best misspoke and that's the problem you get when you try to micromanage a huge industry and things go awry. >> jonas. >> just to be clease, they're getting out of it because they're going to get less taxpayer money to hand them this medicare advantaged taxpayer subsidized money to seniors we can't afford. and people do not want pay higher taxes and however, they don't seem to want the medicare benefits cuplans a those are two impossible things to have. yourae going to see cuts and more of them in medicare, to the growing seniors or see tax increases. >> and this is just like the shovel ready, jonas, we have a shovel reaseni pr govat,ent wait a minute. we don't have a shovel ready-- >> they realize they made a mistake. >> costs trending up not down and also didn't see the opportunities to pay the fine instead of providing the health care insurance and a lot of them say i'll take the fine. >> they're all foryoureeping the government payments where they are and high level to all of the prirente insurers, that's what you guys want. i guess. >> thanks, that ys. is it faise,, someone here saying don't get mad, make money to pay for it with a stock pick. with a stock pick. that's douing rare and magical, which provided for their every financial need. [ thunder rumbling ] [ thunder crashing ] and then, in one blinding blink of an eye, their tree had gen its last. butith their raymond james finanal advisor, they had prepared for even the unthinkable. ♪ and they danced. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. . >> neil: predictionings, gary b, what is yours. >> i think the new, exciting gm stock is going to be a big dud like the old exciting gm stock. buy a nongovernment related auto company, buy a great company like honda, i own a fleet of hondas for my kids and the stock is up 50% in a year. >> tobin, grasp the steering wheel on honda. >> no, first off as good as your prediction was, a japanese company come on. >> tobin what is yours. >> we have the strikes in university of california, kids are running out of money. buy a stock, a company called mow motricity. i think they double over the next years. >> how do you like it? >> unlike tobin's suit, i say that stock is expensive. >> i'm taking clue from a guy name jonas. >> jonas. >> the anti-matter discovery we're closer to flying in jet propulsion and little early to short exxon, but sparry communica