the other piece, bill. that potential cross-border strike is -- we can't overstate the significance of that. it presents a policy choice again for the white house. they have made this distinction between offensive and defensive weapons out of fear of escalation. if zelenskyy is in a position to start using the weapons that we're giving going cross border into russia to effect the fight there, does the white house then start pumping the brakes? they let fear of putin and fear of escalation drive our policy. let's let zelenskyy win. >> there was a moment that struck me yesterday when we had a chance to catch up with admiral kirby at the pentagon. i asked him and said what are the current efforts on the part of president biden to engage with vladimir putin? and specifically reach out to the kremlin. here was the exchange. >> we have tried on numerous occasions in recent days and weeks to reach out to our counterparts, the chairman of the joint chief equivalent in the russian military and been