out of this jam? >> we should concede nothing. the fallacy here is that russia is claiming that nato is a threat. nato is not a threat. they are a defensive organization. russia already received concessions from ukraine and the united states. ukraine upon the dissolution of the soviet union was a nuclear weapons state conceded nuclear weapons and gave them back to russia in exchange for guarantees in a memorandum of guarantees for their sovereign integrity. rush ja is violating that and annexing portions of the country. they have assurances ukraine and nato are not threats. we need to diligently try to deter russia but also ramp up our sanctions options so russia can see there will be real action if they take any threatening action to ukraine. >> bill: one more point. panetta with cavuto yesterday said this as well. >> no mistake about it.