And new evidence shows lots of people who went to jail were innocents. After 28 years behind bars for murder, Steven Cheney walks free. Our Justice System is needlessly cruel. Or is it . What is justice . Thats my show tonight. Recently there has been plenty of injustice. In Louisiana Police respond to a call saying a man threatened someone with a gun. When the cops found their suspect the cell phone video shows them subject dog him. Once hes on the ground, one officer takes out his gun and shoots him. We wont show that part here. Then the very next day in minnesota, police pulled over a black man. At the cops request he reached for his license and when he did, the officer shot him. His fiance live streamed what hack the next. We got pulled over for a busts taillight. He killed my boyfriend. Es licensed to carry. He was trying to get out his i. D. And wallet out of his pocket. And he let the officer know that he was he had a firearm an was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. We are waiting i will, sir, no worry. John the man died. Two days later at the black lives matter rally in dallas a man killed five officers and wounded two others. How do we get more justice. Former nypd detective bo dietl says support Police Officers more and get tougher on prime. But some say they need to let more people out of jail. The right number of people in jail is the right answer. But there are a lot of people in jail with Mental Health issues. Police officers dont have enough time to chase the truely violent repeat offenders because they are distracted by so many things. John isnt there some good reason for black lives matter protesters to be mad, some cops are bullies. 650,000 the cops in america. Onehalf of one percent is thousands of bullies out there. Even if you take the structure of the clergy. You have got more than that in the surgery and doctors. John but they dont have guns and the right to use them to take my life. A cop making 40,000 a year and is expected to be a psychologist or socialologist. John lets take a look at that live stream. That killing. You told him to get his i. D. , his drivers license. Oh, my god, please dont tell him hes dead. We cant know what happened. But he sounds like the cop was out of line. We have to have more evidence to tell us what happened before. We get to that point. The deaths in any city are tragic. 63 million contacts between police and citizens we have that data aavailable. We cant get distracted. There will be some cops that are bad and some protest by people using their individual hatred around protests. John there is a new book out that says america is safer if we lock more people up. We lock up 98 out of every 100,000. No other country comes close. Is that justified . Are we more violent in america . Yes, we are. Family breakdown. Kids growing up without fathers. Without impulse control. Driveby shootings are practically and uniquely an american phenomenon. Only 3 of people who commit a property crime end up in prison. John she disagrees with you. She says lock them up. We are at the lowest crime rate in this country since the last generation. We represent 30,000 professional Law Enforcement from all over the country. John you have been a chief three times different places. I want Police Officers to have alternatives to arrests. I dont know a cop who want to put a guy with meantal illness in jail. Officers want to be chasing those violent criminals. But when you have got people being killed in the numbers they are being killed john lower numbers. We charted the homicide rate, its down. We have to get the people that are killing people off the street. The majority are gangrelated and its black on black crime. 4,500 will die in one year, black on black crime. John when we look at that chart, the incarceration rate, are you not bothered that the United States locks up more people than russia and china . Maybe the youth has more murder than russia. I have been to china. I dont think there are too murders going on in china. In the 1990s and 1980s there was a lot of get tough on crime, three strike you are out. We are distracted by the neighborhood drunk. We are distracted by what was a felony in 1980 is still a felony today and the value money has not kept up. John on social media i asked what do you think are the biggest examples of injustice. Steffey said as a correctional officer some of the crimes are so petty. You have to wonder if the space is wasted. You just answered your own question. You hit the nail on the head, john. 1970, i was on the force. We used to have 2,000 murders in new york. We are down to less than 500 murder. What is the reason . Maybe the reason is the people committing the murder are still incarcerated, maybe the murder rate is going down because we have people in jail, john. John lets analyze that. 17 state let more people out of prison, the crime rate dropped there, too. 27 states in the last few years made meaningful, rational thoughtful changes in prison guidelines and have seen crime reduction. Mississippi is on the vern of changing the verge of change its correctional processes. If there is no violence involved with it. First of all, drugs, tomorrow they will make pot legal. John do you agree with it . I agree with it. Because i have never seen a guy high on pot crack a bought over a guy head in a bar. John what about the harder drugs . Those have other consequences. You dont show up to work. You get in trouble. John we talked about how much crime has dropped. You look at these two peaks that exist. One in the 20s, one in the 70s and 8s. 8 and 80s. In the 20s, prohibition. Prohibition is a much bigger threat to cops. A big reason for the number dead in chicago is the gang violence. F what if we recognize we can change the lowlevel crimes. Instead of ending up in a prison bed. Why dont we try bringing them back. I have got to agree with the chief on this one. I believe they shouldnt just be put in there, they should be helped. John right now many are just locked up. Because of mandatory minimum jail sentences, to get sentenced to such long terms, it doesnt even make sense to the judge who imposes. If he had been an aircraft hijacker we have gotten 24 years in prison. If he was a terrorist he would have gotten 20 years in prison. If he was a child ripist he would have gotten 11 years in prison. John the judge was forced to sentence angelus to 55 years in jail. Received a 55year mandatory minimum sentence with no parole for selling something thats legally available in four states. John congratulations. How does it feel to be out . It feels great. A little overwhelming. But amazing. John the explanation is complicated. The judge who sentenced you went to bat for you and somebody gout out on a technicality. Did you expect that . No. John you twice sold some weed and you had a gun. Some people would say you are dangerous. You should be locked up for a long time. Right. Well, the gun was never bran dished or used in any fashion. It was just in the hav vicinity during the transaction. John now that you are out what are you going to do with your life . I have only been out three weeks and i havent had a day rest since i have been out. Its been hectic. But im going to advocate for reform. I noon go to d. C. And speak and help reform hands tory sentencing. John in prison you were with people who had done nasty things, i presume. Did some look at you and say you are in here for that. A lot of people didnt believe me. 55 years for that . Most of the people who did way harsher crimes got way less time. Like the judge points out, a child rapist gets 11 years. Thats a fifth of my sentence. Some murders get 15 years. John crime was up and thats why president clinton signed the mandatory sentences law. John thank you, weldon i wish you the best and im glad you are after 13 years free. Thank you. John coming up. Why innocent people are wrongly convicted. New evidence presented by the oklahoma Innocence Project proved scott and correspond proved scott and correspond penner are innocents of the 1994 man what this place needs is better graduation rates. Girl what this place needs is less childhood obesity. Man what this place needs is free help with taxes. Woman what this place needs is healthy breakfasts. Woman 2 what this place needs is fitness programs for kids. Girl what this place needs is early readers. Woman what this place needs is mentors for teens. Announcer what this place needs is people to join us. What this place needs is you. To donate or volunteer. Go to unitedway. Org. O unite red roses too i see them bloom for me and you and i think to myself what a Wonderful World music oh yeah by switching to xfinity x1. Rio Olympic Games show me gymnastics. X1 lets you search by sport, watch nbcs highlights and catch every live event on your tv with nbc sports live extra. Im getting ready. Are you . X1 will change the way you experience nbcuniversals coverage of the rio Olympic Games. Call or go online today to switch to x1. John you are innocent until proven guilty. The jury must find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Often when people are convicted there is a confession, multiple witness or a damning piece of evidence. Im surprised i keep hearing about people who because of dna evidence or other people confessed are moved to be innocent. After 28 years behind bars Steven Cheney walked free. John how does it happen all these innocent people go to jail . Its because of the way police are trained says this professor. How does that relate. Memory doesnt work like a taperecorder. I can easily distort your memory by suggesting things you didnt see, and over time they will become incorporated into your memory report and you will report them like they are your own story. John you who are watching, look at this picture. Do you remember the stop sign in the photo. Yes, or no. How many of you remember there was the stop sign there . Actually what there was no stop sign. The first i amage we showed, that one the first image has a wield sign. Whats your point . This is a classic demonstration of how ease live we can distort somebodys memory for what you have seen. There you have two eyewitnesses who observed this accident. One says they ran through a stop sign. Other witness might have thought it was a yield sign, but because the other person is so confident they take that on board and start reporting it like its their story. So by the time the Police Arrive they report it was a stop sign. And the problem with that really is that police arent interviewing eyewitnesses with rubber gloves on and shoe protectors. They arent treating memory evidence the way they are treating biological evidence. So it can be easily distorted with time. John it reminds me of this story here in new york. Headline says witness accounts in midtown hammer attack show the power of lost memory. There was a series of hammer attacks. After two of these attacks there was a woman who called the New York Times and said she had seen the police shoot somebody who was already in handcuffs. Now, they hadnt. What happened here, and what this example illustrates is how our expectations can shape what we see. The media was flood with examples of bad police practices. John the witnesses arent necessarily make something up, they think they saw something that never happened. 342 people exonerated with dna evidence. 75 of them have an sigh witness pointing the person out in the courtroom, having already picked them out of the lineup. Convincing the jury they committed the crime. And 2 3 of those cases had more than one eye witness doing the same thing. John people get exonerated by dna evidence yet they confess. Why would people confess to a crime they didnt commit. 20 of them included a false confession. The reason why they would falsely confess largely comes down to the way police are interviewing such. The only people that get into the interrogation phase are people that the officers believe are actually guilty. Once they get into this room which is designed to break down all of your psychological barriers. Its gray, and you have got the interrogator staring aught. They are providing the scaffolding to elicit a confession out of you. You really believe your innocence is going to shine through. So you are trying really hard to help the investigator and the investigator thinks you are guilty. If the crime is murder they will Say Something like, well, everyone is bert off now that they are off the street. You did the right thing. John im glad hes off the street, but i didnt kill him. Now well Start Building your story. They might suggest, dna was found at the source of the crime. How would you explain your fingerprints found on the gun . John i start to believe i did commit the crime or i want to please the officers . It could be any of those things. The gun doesnt to exist. They might not have found it and if they did your fingerprints probably werent on it. Did you bring it gun or did your friend suggest you bring it along. John i didnt have a gun. John, clearly they wont get you to confess. Most of those people who did confess were interrogated for more than 12 hours. Next a new movie that shows Police Killing innocents. I cant believe we broke old man hennesseys window correction dude, you broke. I just threw the ball. This is really bad. What are we going to do . Dude, kiss your life goodbye. Lets go. Oh. Keep smiling, keep shining knowing you can always count on me, for sure hi knowing you can always count on me, for sure tell him it was an accident and we can fix the window. Knowing you can always count on me, for sure ill come with you. Woah, thats what friends are for Police Department. Is anybody home . He pulled out his gun and shot her in the head. John her in this case is a dog. A new movie called dogs and men. Its about cops killing dogs. You have won an award for this movie. Its about to be released on dvd and streamed. But people would say what are you talking about . 12,000 people are killed every year. We were moved to make this documentary about dogs because half of americans own dogs and many more grew up with dogs. John they are innocents. When you see the dog shot by a Police Officer you think this could happen to me and my dog. It breaks peoples hearts. John you got money from the Animal Legal Defense Fund and kickstarter. There is a tennessee story. The family was going to an Amusement Park outside of nashville. Pulled over to get gas, and left the wallet on top of the car. Then they drove off and suddenly someone called saying there was money flying out the window. And this got turned into this was an armed robbery. It was a mistake. There was no armed robbery. Police officers come, you can see they are surrounding the family and down on the ground. And they ask to we can hear on the audio, we have dogs in the car can we shut the doors. One of the dogs hops out of the car, about a 8 to 9monthold puppy circling around with his tail wagging and one of the Police Officers takes his gun and shoots him at point blank range. John it was an 80pound pit bull. You say he was wagging his tail but we werent there. And it was a tense situation. Police officers dont have time to reflect. They have seconds to react. What they rely upon is their training. Unfortunately in our country, most Police Officers do not have any training on how to deal with dogs. So it seems that in a lot of cases the reaction, the instinct is to pull out the begun and shoot the dog. John there are more of these s. W. A. T. Team raids where they break into the home, and if a dog is barking and coming at them as any dog would in that situation, they may shoot them. And s. W. A. T. Team raid have gone from,000 in 1980 to 50,000. More than 100 he day. So more dogs get killed. How many more. The department of Justice Community policing division told us they estimate 10,000 dogs are shot by police he year in americ john lets play another clip from the movie. A Police Officer shot and killed their dog. The movie argues police rarely own up to their mistake or punish officers who recklessly kill dogs. We had the witness. We had the video. Everybody needs to remember there are two sides to every story. John there are two side. And these officers arent sadists. Why would they kill the dog unless they were frightened themselves. There is a buffalo officer who alen has shot 26 dogs himself. John and been punished for it . No, officers typically arent punished. They say i was in fear of my life, even though no dog has ever killed a Police Officer in the line of duty ever. John killed is a high standard. Ill bet they bit cops. We dont argue Police Officers should never shoot dogs. We dont cast Police Officers as the villains. Once we can have discourse then w enrcemt an anil welfe grps c wortogeer for ange jo tnk y. Next, laws that trap excons in poverty. I felt like i was meant to be in the hood. Like i was meant to be on govern john you get out of jail. You would like to stay out of jail. But the odds are against you. Most excons go back to jail. One big reason is they cant get work. Job hunting is tough for everyone. By the many tougher if your employer asks, what have you been doing the last three years and your answer is prison. And getting a joins impossible if you want to work as a nurse, a barber or 100 occupations in illinois. When theresa was 19 she was arrested for trying to steal money from a Cash Register at a subway. 20 years later she went to nursing school. After graduating she learned she couldnt even take the test because she had been convicted of a forcible felony. Her job plan was impossible. She said it was as if the states bureaucrats dont want excons to work. I felt like i was meant to be in the hood. That it was meant to be on government assistance. John christina from the policy institute told us about teresa. Teresa is a great example of someone who changed her life. She wants to be a productive member of society. John 20 years later. Government is getting in the way of pursuing her profession as a registered nurse. You can never become a registered nurse in illinois. Its mandatory. And they changed the rules when she was in nursing school. So she went in thinking she had a chance. But this year it looks like we have got a bill passed so there is hope for lisa. John lisa has three kids and they couldnt understand why she wasnt working in the job she studied to do. My boys asked me whats up . I didnt have the heart to tell them things werent going like we had hoped. My kids deserve so much better than to be punished because of my mistakes. John the kids are the innocent victims. A lot of these excons have kids, and the law makes it tougher. In illinois that we dont know is worse thoonter states. Bureaucrats ban them from 100 occupation. Moving companies, barbers, geologists, dance hall operators. All i care is they will do good work going forward. You werent to prison, you paid your debt to society. Coming out, how are they going to treat you . Are we going to deny you solid work that accumulations and your family out of trouble . And you turn to a life of crime or dependency. John how did we get the laws in the first time . I suspect trade saying we dont want competition. Except they bribe legislation towards and make their own rules. You have government bureaucrats who like being busy bodies. They enjoy this for some reason. They know best, right . And their knowing best means people like lisa cant get a nurse practitioner. And there are people who dont like to competition. John these rules are side and we should get rid of them. But there is this new approach. Ban the box. Explain what that means. It tells employers you cant put that box on the Employment Application asking if you have been in prison. It was that they were after he frayed of being hit with lawsuits for negligent hiring. John ill bet some worry if half these guys repeat, i dont want this guy working for me. There is a diner in chicago known for only hiring exfelons because they want to give them a second chance. We are a nation of second chances. So we have the ban the box but we are not giving businesses the right to hire exfelons. John next, someone who helps exfelons build businesses like this gym. John one reason most people get out of jail and eventually get caught committing another crime and go bakes because they cant you is because they cant support themselves. But beyond that prisons are filled with people who may not be familiar with legal routes to a good life. I was the firstborn american citizen in the family. My mom found a job work at a factory making cents per hour. I would go to school and people would ask me what do you want to be when you grow up . I would tell them i wanted to be rich. John he looked for opportunity in his poor neighborhood. At age 13 he began selling weed and cocaine. By 19 i was making 2 million a year. John then he got caught and went to jail for 7 years. But a good thing happened next. In. We transformed the hustle of incarcerated people. Anyone who has worked in a prison, a correction at institution knows many in prison are natural hustlers from hooch which is made in prison to the cutting and selling of cigarettes. People in prison, when you have restraints it can force innovation. By transforming their skills into legal skills and adding on a whole lot of character development, we dont only believe, we have seen and we know many with criminal history can shake outstanding legal entrepreneurs when they come home. John you have a group called defy ventures. You have serious Harvard Business school education. They receive 100 course. When they finish our courses, they earn a certificate from baylors mba program its called ceo of your new life. They receive employment Readiness Training and life change zprils character doavment how to shake hand and tie a tie for employment when you get out to how to forgive yourself and how to forgive others. To shame reduction. And parenting from behind bars. Its very holistic. John i have never learned how to forgive people. We combine it with application and bring in business executives. We have 3,000 of them nationally. We bring them into prison. We have Business Coaching nights and we have our own pitch competition where the incarcerated men and women pitch their ideas and receive feedback. And we give them ious for after they get out. And they can receive up to 15,000 for their startup businesses. John they have to go to e rest of the money. They can earn more than 15,000 in grant funding. For businesses we hook them up with Angel Investors who can help them raise Additional Capital if their businesses warrant it. We incue bad it and funded 150 of their companies. John he now runs a successful gym in new york city. He made it look like a jail. Some people like that. Its a killer workout. You will come here and sweat and you are going to do the time. John the staff is mostly excons. He highers them to he hires them to give them a support group. Its a very loving place. She is breaking the stereo types and bringing the community together. John you financ 150 mpans. Heseusinses ve bn so ccesul tt th proded 350 Employment Opportunities for people. Not on are they creating their tone jobs when other people wont hire them. But they ends up hiring their buddies who are also out of prison because who better than them to recognize thats people out of prison are americas most overlooked talent pool. They have amazing skill sets. They are charismatic and they can close a deal and managto if thats used for legal enterprise, america wins. John good news about this otherwise depressing show about crime. Well show you how new Technology Makes life better for cops and for us. We had over 2 million views. From the comments of great job. I couldnt do your job and god bless you. John you say the cops beat you up . Today we have a new device that can resolve many debates about police brutality. The camera in our phone. If someone records the encounter we dont have to take the cops word for it anymore. In ferguson, missouri where a Police Officer killed Michael Brown, no cameras captured what happened. Authorities relied on eyewitness testimony. Many witness to the shooting of Michael Brown made statements inconsistent with other statement they made and conflicting with the physical evidence. John people pulled out their phone cameras after the shooting. But no one got a video record of what happened at the time of the shooting. Its the reason why more Police Departments have officers wear cameras on their chefts or shoulders. This is a good thing for the public because some cops are bullies. There are half a million Police Officers in america. If 1 10 of 1 are pulleys, thats a lot of bullies with guns. We tend to trust the police, they are the good guys protecting me from bad guys. And Police Departments and Police Unions are not eager to punish their own. Look at what colorado officer mark magnus does to a robbery suspect. Im sorry, sir. The suspect was drunk and he did mouth off at officers. But even though he poses no threat, one cop punched him 12 time. The suspect keeps apologizing. Im sorry. This officer had been accused of abuse before, repeatedly. But he wasser in punished the because there but he was never punished because there was no proof. But this time there were cameras. Even though police knew about the cameras, they were so used to do this type of thing they didnt stop. The officer was fired. Orlando, florida found use of force incidents dropped 53 and civilian complaints 65 . Many cops say they became better officers because they knew the camera was there. They protect cops from bad people as well as protecting us from bad cops. People file false brutality accusations against officers. With body cameras we no longer have to rely on witnesses. This woman said officers threw her to the ground and stole her bracelet. But because the officers wore body cams you can see she wasnt thrown to the ground. And she as you so wasnt wearing a bracelet. While many Police Officers initially objected to the cameras, today many ask for them even when they are not required. Tampa bays Police Department released this video showing their officers do good things. Like helping this woman who had fallen over. Helpingific this persons bike. Helping fix this persons bike. You cant call 911 when there is not an emergency. We have had over 2 million views. From the comments of great job, i couldnt do your job, and god bless you. Reporter officers doing their job. Good things. Thats what most of them do. Its good that the camera lets them share that with everyone. Thats our show. Thanks for watching